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iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.05.01 15:32:00 -
[1]
I waited a long time before starting to do 0.0 missions, to make sure that the initial imbalances of the probing system are fixed. Took only a few missions till the locals started to probe, and a few missions later a cloaker appeared right next to me, calling in his gang that had an easy kill.
The probing system may be difficult for the standard pvp probing, but for 0.0 or lowsec mission-runners, that have to stay up to 40 minutes at one spot, it's the secure death. It was difficult to do missions in 0.0 before as well, all that gate-camps, directional bubbles etc. - but now it's impossible. Is that really intended ? Do the few 0.0- or lowsec mission-runners have to go back to highsec again ?
Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88 |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.01 15:43:00 -
[2]
any chance you can join their corp? or agree to some kind of ransom?
have no other idea mate. sry.
I run couriers in null.. looks like the only thing, where disturbing through other players is limited and manageable, once you use fast frigs or blockade runners and know how to avoid bubbles.
Forge '07 on Sale
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.05.01 16:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: iudex I waited a long time before starting to do 0.0 missions, to make sure that the initial imbalances of the probing system are fixed. Took only a few missions till the locals started to probe, and a few missions later a cloaker appeared right next to me, calling in his gang that had an easy kill.
The probing system may be difficult for the standard pvp probing, but for 0.0 or lowsec mission-runners, that have to stay up to 40 minutes at one spot, it's the secure death. It was difficult to do missions in 0.0 before as well, all that gate-camps, directional bubbles etc. - but now it's impossible. Is that really intended ? Do the few 0.0- or lowsec mission-runners have to go back to highsec again ?
You must be doing it wrong. I've run plenty of missions in lowsec/0.0 space with no problems. Maybe it's because they can see you in local and know where to come looking for you? Maybe you should be asking to remove local.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.05.01 16:32:00 -
[4]
The question is, other than undock and pray, did you take any precautions to protect yourself? Like keeping a weather eye on Local or checking your directional scanner?
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.01 16:43:00 -
[5]
Edited by: RedSplat on 01/05/2009 16:44:45
Secretly MirrorGod. Apparently
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.01 16:45:00 -
[6]
Edited by: RedSplat on 01/05/2009 16:44:55 Leave your mission and dock up/ safespot and cloak or just log in space.
Anyone that gets caught in a mission in Lowsec or 0.0 is afk or an idiot. Secretly MirrorGod. Apparently
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.05.01 17:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Elaron The question is, other than undock and pray, did you take any precautions to protect yourself? Like keeping a weather eye on Local or checking your directional scanner?
I did precautions that kept the last CNR alive half a year while operating in hostile space and being hunted on a regular basis. It's the diffrence between the current probing system and the old one, that makes it impossible: the diffrence of occasional probing hits back then and the almost certain probing hit with the new scanning system, since it takes long enough to complete the average mission to be found with a probability bordering on certainty.
Probers can now find you within few minutes, have plenty of time to warp in a stealth ship that approaches you and tackles right away. Keeping an eye on local or checking directional scanner doesn't help, since the local contains hostiles 99% of time and you see probes over 50% of time anyways. It wasn't much different back then, but with some knowledge and tricks it was possible to survive quite long in that environment, now it's not.
Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88 |
Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.05.01 17:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: iudex I waited a long time before starting to do 0.0 missions, to make sure that the initial imbalances of the probing system are fixed. Took only a few missions till the locals started to probe, and a few missions later a cloaker appeared right next to me, calling in his gang that had an easy kill.
The probing system may be difficult for the standard pvp probing, but for 0.0 or lowsec mission-runners, that have to stay up to 40 minutes at one spot, it's the secure death. It was difficult to do missions in 0.0 before as well, all that gate-camps, directional bubbles etc. - but now it's impossible. Is that really intended ? Do the few 0.0- or lowsec mission-runners have to go back to highsec again ?
You must be doing it wrong. I've run plenty of missions in lowsec/0.0 space with no problems. Maybe it's because they can see you in local and know where to come looking for you? Maybe you should be asking to remove local.
I wish the average player was smart enough to understand that. But of course a lto of systems liek the scanner woudl have to be streamlined to keep things usable.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.05.01 17:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: iudex
Originally by: Elaron The question is, other than undock and pray, did you take any precautions to protect yourself? Like keeping a weather eye on Local or checking your directional scanner?
I did precautions that kept the last CNR alive half a year while operating in hostile space and being hunted on a regular basis. It's the diffrence between the current probing system and the old one, that makes it impossible: the diffrence of occasional probing hits back then and the almost certain probing hit with the new scanning system, since it takes long enough to complete the average mission to be found with a probability bordering on certainty.
Probers can now find you within few minutes, have plenty of time to warp in a stealth ship that approaches you and tackles right away. Keeping an eye on local or checking directional scanner doesn't help, since the local contains hostiles 99% of time and you see probes over 50% of time anyways. It wasn't much different back then, but with some knowledge and tricks it was possible to survive quite long in that environment, now it's not.
in fact now probing is SLOWER.. quite slower than it was. THe only thing that was made harder to your side is that you cannot see the probes in your scanner always. If you are runnign a mission against agngels and they put 20 target painters on you (quite normal) you will be probable with probes at max range setups.
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Sator deHarak
Caldari Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:39:00 -
[10]
A) Make a setup to use stabs. B) fight aligned. A recon can't lock you for ~5 seconds after they decloak. c) 'bob' in and out of missions so you're not giving an easy hit. D) try anchoring a bubble or two at the acceleration gate kickout, and pop your scanner open to about 50,000 km or so. On multi-level missions, you can easily give yourself some warning.
E) Get friends. Nothing deters like having friends who will want to gank gankers, especially if you give them incentive like cheap faction items and such.
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Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:49:00 -
[11]
Easy tip to avoid being probed out.
Constanly refresh your ship scanner operating 360 degrees 5 AU away. You'll have to research how many Km this is. You'll be long gone by the time they show up because they'll need to get those probes AT LEAST 2 AU from you to get a 100% hit.
After you see probes on the scanner, you'll have about 30 seconds before they could feasably get to you.
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iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.05.01 20:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Fzhal Easy tip to avoid being probed out.
Constanly refresh your ship scanner operating 360 degrees 5 AU away. You'll have to research how many Km this is. You'll be long gone by the time they show up because they'll need to get those probes AT LEAST 2 AU from you to get a 100% hit.
After you see probes on the scanner, you'll have about 30 seconds before they could feasably get to you.
Sounds like a good idea, spamming the scan all the time might keep the ship alive if they really need to get the probes to 2 AU. But this also means to abandon the mission every time the probes are close. Rejecting an accepted mission results in faction standing loss, corporation standing loss and agent standing loss. If i do this a couple of times in a row the agents won't talk to me anymore (lvl4q20 agents require a high standing, and standing loss at a high standing level is severe), so thats not an adequate solution on the long run.
I think CCP needs to fix and balance this specific situation, where a ship has to be a rather long time in a deadspace spot, giving it a chance to not be found. My guess is they simply forgot about that, when designing the new system and the fine balance regarding this issue, that existed before, was destroyed.
Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88 |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.05.01 22:21:00 -
[13]
Doesnt eccm now make oyu harder to probe?
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.01 22:22:00 -
[14]
Just make sure you don't hang around the entrance gate too long. Whatever it is thats coming in it will have to go through them and probably uncloak in the process.
A 100% result does not mean you're going to get the mission runner - if he is smart about it.
Watching the scanner is usually a responsibility of everyone in 0.0/lowsec *whatever* he is doing. So i don't see why you should be different.
Plus you don't have to cancel a mission once probed out. You can make another attempt the day after and if that fails the standing loss isn't that severe that you couldn't make it up in a few missions. A t1 raven would do it too btw. and even if i'd agree that chances are someone will try to get you anyway - a cnr is just asking for it.
And you might want to fit an eccm - it will make you harder to probe. And don't tell me you can't afford the med slot - been there done that.
After all you may argue that it's just too much of a hassle in comparison to lvl4 in hisec and well welcome to the forum discussions of the past few months. (ruze, malcanis et al.)
The constant being on your toes, docking up/leaving mission areas because of hostiles cuts your profit considerably no doubt. Then again you can still cash in big times on the lp so i still don't feel much sympathy.
I'd say campaign for ccp to boost lowsec/0.0 missions or nerf hisec lvl4 (what ever your flavour is). Thats the real issue not the current scanning system which is already broken enough in regards to pvp probing.
The most important point imo is you're doing it wrong. And you have inflated expectations. You're a mission runner, alone in 0.0. See what i am getting at?
Mission hubs in 0.0 are a resource to fight over. You need to make a group effort and yes this will very much include fighting. You're never going to stop hostiles from showing around but you have to make one thing clear: That they can't just come into your space with a couple of hac/bcs and ceptors and go to town with you. That gang is tiny any respectable entity will be able to drive them off without much effort.
Once they realize that they either bring the blob or get steamrolled you will be able to work efficiently and reap great profits.
just my 2 cents... --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Expendable Pilot
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Posted - 2009.05.02 05:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Expendable Pilot on 02/05/2009 05:51:10
Originally by: Myra2007 And you might want to fit an eccm - it will make you harder to probe. And don't tell me you can't afford the med slot - been there done that.
How does an ECCM make you harder to scan down?
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.05.02 06:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Doesnt eccm now make oyu harder to probe?
It did for quite some time, and still does.
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SDragoon
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Posted - 2009.05.02 07:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: SDragoon on 02/05/2009 07:22:45 If you can somehow managed to fit 4 mid slot ECCM, you'll be basically impossible to probe (in missions) as a battleship.
Not really a realistic solution, so we can look at other methods.
First, lower your scanner down to 2 AUs when looking to see if someone is probing you, they'll have to use this range to get a hit on you unless you are using a ton of shield extenders. If a probe shows up it's a damn good chance they are looking for you.
Second, keep an eye on the scanner when it's set to 2au, if you see a cloaky ship at all, or a combat ship for more then 1 or 2 scans, they have landed on your gate and it's time to get out.
Third, if you have an alt scout, position him on your ingate so he can see anyone that comes in.
Fourth, if the mission allows it, get as far away from the gate you came in from as soon as you can. The enemy is forced to warp to the same point, so if you are 50km away when they warp in, you'll have plenty of time to get out.
Also for 0.0 you should really find a system that's empty when you play to mission in. That way if someone does come into local you can safe spot and cloak til he leaves. It's boring at time but it keeps you alive.
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2009.05.02 09:34:00 -
[18]
Halo implants wll make you harder to scan down, they can reduce your sig quite a bit... and dont leave drones out, they for some reason have massive sigs
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Spurty
Caldari Summer Summer Summer Fun
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Posted - 2009.05.02 10:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies Halo implants wll make you harder to scan down, they can reduce your sig quite a bit... and dont leave drones out, they for some reason have massive sigs
drones use dev hacks to turn on their mwds in dead space, making the signature much easier to detect
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 12:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: iudex
Originally by: Elaron The question is, other than undock and pray, did you take any precautions to protect yourself? Like keeping a weather eye on Local or checking your directional scanner?
I did precautions that kept the last CNR alive half a year while operating in hostile space and being hunted on a regular basis.
No, u didn't. The locals in your system just failed at probing before Apocrypha.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.05.02 13:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Expendable Pilot Edited by: Expendable Pilot on 02/05/2009 05:51:10
Originally by: Myra2007 And you might want to fit an eccm - it will make you harder to probe. And don't tell me you can't afford the med slot - been there done that.
How does an ECCM make you harder to scan down?
the formula includes ship's signature and sensor strength. been like that for... yup, years
also the reason why - with the new probing system - one can get his ship to be unprobe'able;
[Griffin, New Setup 1] Capacitor Power Relay I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
[empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] - putting the gist back into logistics |
Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.05.02 15:34:00 -
[22]
Good hints were given above.
Most important are:
- Avoid using drones
They have large sig radius and weak sensor strength --> easy to probe for.
- Use ECCM
Use 1-2 good ECCM's to increase your sig radius / sensor strength ratio --> harder to probe for.
- Anchor bubble at the acceleration gate
You'll loose it sometimes, but its cheaper than your ship/gear.
- Avoid missions which dont make probing for you difficult
There are some missions where this is the case, like this one.
- Avoid missions without acceleration gates at all
Attackers will have to go through the acceleration gate, which gives you a few seconds extra while they kill your bubble first.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.02 20:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ausser Avoid missions which dont make probing for you difficult
That is no more valid. With the new probing system your signature isn't reduced if you are in deadspace.
So finding you in deadspace is as easy or as hard that when you are outside it.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.05.02 20:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Ausser Avoid missions which dont make probing for you difficult
That is no more valid. With the new probing system your signature isn't reduced if you are in deadspace.
So finding you in deadspace is as easy or as hard that when you are outside it.
Previously, whether the mission was gated or not, it was still 'deadspace' for the purposes of sig radius reduction, so gated/non gated missions were the same from a probing standpoint.
And now that it's changed, it's equal for both types of missions currently.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.03 04:01:00 -
[25]
Quote: Anchor bubble at the acceleration gate You'll loose it sometimes, but its cheaper than your ship/gear.
This is an interesting idea if it prevents other people from warping via the gate...but AFAIK, bubbles stop everyone, so how do YOU get into the mission? Are you anchoring with an alt?
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.05.03 06:00:00 -
[26]
Actually controling the system and killing anything that tries to get in generally allows for farming missions in peace, try that.
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2009.05.03 06:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Doddy Actually controling the system and killing anything that tries to get in generally allows for farming missions in peace, try that.
Good luck with that. It¦s also not very cost effective since lowsec payouts aren¦t that much better. Now if you made 5x or more isk per mission it might start to be worth it so you can pay your guards wages and replace losses and compensate for lost times when you for one reason or other can¦t run safely. Risk-Reward ratio is utterly broken and has been for a good while.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.03 07:13:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 03/05/2009 07:16:25
Originally by: iudex I waited a long time before starting to do 0.0 missions, to make sure that the initial imbalances of the probing system are fixed. Took only a few missions till the locals started to probe, and a few missions later a cloaker appeared right next to me, calling in his gang that had an easy kill.
The probing system may be difficult for the standard pvp probing, but for 0.0 or lowsec mission-runners, that have to stay up to 40 minutes at one spot, it's the secure death. It was difficult to do missions in 0.0 before as well, all that gate-camps, directional bubbles etc. - but now it's impossible. Is that really intended ? Do the few 0.0- or lowsec mission-runners have to go back to highsec again ?
LOL.
Hmm... i was scanning u for almost 10 minutes... And only after that i was able to warp to you.
Same scanners tried to scan down my Dominix and never succeded because i used direct scanner and as soon as probes appeared on direct scanner i warpout. (if u uncheck "Use overview settings" probes are shown on direct scanner) 2-4 AU is quite enough radius of direct scanner.
P.S. And u was unlucky that it was Damsel mission where no acceleration gates so i could warp directly to u. (and i wasn't decloaked by surrounding also, i decloaked by myself to hit the KM) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
BacardiDesire
Caldari The 8th Order
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Posted - 2009.05.03 11:11:00 -
[29]
doing 0.0 missions in such a ship is risk at high cost anyway
WT DOWN all i want is some cake. |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.03 11:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus You must be doing it wrong. I've run plenty of missions in lowsec/0.0 space with no problems. Maybe it's because they can see you in local and know where to come looking for you? Maybe you should be asking to remove local.
Yes, because the pirates aren't going to know there's people running missions in low-sec mission hubs... ------------------------------------------
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