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Trimutius III
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.03 11:42:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
You must be doing it wrong. I've run plenty of missions in lowsec/0.0 space with no problems. Maybe it's because they can see you in local and know where to come looking for you? Maybe you should be asking to remove local. 
Yes, because the pirates aren't going to know there's people running missions in low-sec mission hubs...
This situation was unique...
He runned mission in our place of living... We run there mission too... At that time when i cathched him there was 40 ppl in local 39 of them was my alliance mates and pluses. I saw this neutral in CNR (iudex) several times on undock and not only me, other saw him too of course. So local doesn't matter this time. I waited on undock with a probe nearby and when he undocked i scanned once and wrote down his ID that appeared on scanner. And then i scanned for that ID. It was hard to scan without, ID because there was several other agentrunners (my ally mates and so on). Of course when i've got strength of signal of about 90% i said to our PVP gang about that and then when i've got 100% i warped our squad of ceptors to him... I can't understand what he was expecting in a local with 40 people...
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I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.05.03 12:09:00 -
[32]
The title of this thread needs clearly to be change to: CCP, why did you ruin 0.0 and lowsec mission-running for me?
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Pvt Public7
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.03 13:04:00 -
[33]
You could, y'know, run missions in hisec?
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SWA was here
IAC is a loser |
Solomon XI
The Estovakian Militia.
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Posted - 2009.05.03 16:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Pvt Public7
You could, y'know, run missions in hisec?
Null-security missions are far more profitable than high-sec ones, IIRC.
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@ OP: I imagine you're in NPC controlled null-sec. Try making buddy-buddy with the locals.
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.05.03 17:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
Quote:
Anchor bubble at the acceleration gate
You'll loose it sometimes, but its cheaper than your ship/gear.
This is an interesting idea if it prevents other people from warping via the gate...but AFAIK, bubbles stop everyone, so how do YOU get into the mission? Are you anchoring with an alt?
The bubble generator wont stop you, because it's not online beofre the anchoring cycle is complete. That's 120s for the small bubble gen. You can use the gate meanwhile.
When you finished the mission, just warp back to the bubble gen, unanchor and scoop it. Remember not to use your plex fitted cnr toy for that task... otherwise you will sometimes find yourself trapped & ganked inside your own bubble. 
Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: Ausser
Avoid missions without acceleration gates at all
Attackers will have to go through the acceleration gate, which gives you a few seconds extra while they kill your bubble first.
Heh it was easy to catch him on Damsel. :)
Hehe - is the damsel safe now? Did you rescued her? 
For those missions, clever rabbits will use a carrier:
- Its cyno prevents hunters become sick while scanning for you. They will be in best spirits when they arrive.
- The carrier is much cheaper to loose than any cnr.
- You will be able to complete the mission objective before you run out of hitpoints most the time.
- Maybe you will be able to kill a few hunters before you get your egg for free.
- The explosion looks much cooler.
- You dont need to shame on that kill mail. Carriers still look cool, even there.
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Trimutius VI
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Posted - 2009.05.03 21:40:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Trimutius VI on 03/05/2009 21:40:49
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.03 21:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ausser
Hehe - is the damsel safe now? Did you rescued her?
Somebody of my mates rescued her and sold it for 20 mill as i remember... easy money.
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I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
iudex
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.11 14:33:00 -
[38]
Edited by: iudex on 11/06/2009 14:37:21
I've recently made quite a few test with a prober, who had the task to find me in a mission dead-space. Despite using a gravimetric ECCM he always found my Raven in less than 15 minutes - and he's not even good at probing.
Scanning for 2au in order to see if the prober closed me down doesn't work either, today i had a visitor in my mission while the probes didn't appear on scanner when narrowing down to 1 million km (combat scanner probes I).
It's a constant game with the cloakers who approach and try to bump. With a little luck one can see them in time (1-5 seconds window) and escape before thy tackle. In this case the mission reward and loyalty points are lost. Many 0.0 missions don't have bounties, the reward are the tags and lps, all of which is lost if the mission has been discovered. Next to that there's a faction- corp- and agent-standing penalty for failing a mission.
But more often they manage to tackle you and the ship is lost.
Under this conditions 0.0 mission-running doesn't make sense, CCP nerfed the 0.0 mission-running although no one complained about it or was asking for a nerf. I'm not doing low-sec-missions but the change in probing mechanics will have a similar effect on them.
Something that was fine was broken for no reason. And no, the pirates won't be happy, since there won't be many targets left. In order to make isk one has to go back to empire now and join the crowds in Motsu or wherever.
Thanks for ruining my game experience and all the thrill of mission-running for pirates, CCP .
My skills Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +8.57 / Gallente Federation -9.97 |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.06.11 16:17:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Ulstan on 11/06/2009 16:26:00
Originally by: RedSplat
Leave your mission and dock up/ safespot and cloak or just log in space.
Anyone that gets caught in a mission in Lowsec or 0.0 is afk or an idiot.
This is true. However, it's also true that there's little point in trying to do low sec missions (or 0.0 missions in hostile space but why would you even try?), same with mining. While you can avoid/evade the opponents, the time you lose doing that is very great. So much so that you'd many times be better off mining veldspar in hi sec in complete safety :p
Mission running in 0.0 is fine *as long as you control the territory in question*. And I think that's intended. It's not easy to mission run in someone elses 0.0 and I think that is absolutely by design. But if you put forth the effort to take the space, you can mission run there just fine and it's far more profitable than running L4's for the over saturated caldari navy in hi sec.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.12 14:45:00 -
[40]
I'm surprised to hear that running missions in a CNR in hostile 0.0 is dangerous.
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Grasfer
Minmatar
FinFleet
KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.06.13 19:58:00 -
[41]
Just fit a cloak like all the other farmers? Someone enter local, wait a sec or five, if you see probes warp away and cloak up? |
Scientific Method
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Posted - 2009.06.15 12:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Grasfer
Just fit a cloak like all the other farmers? Someone enter local, wait a sec or five, if you see probes warp away and cloak up?
Try reading the thread? The genius OP was missioning with 39 hostiles in local, and can't understand why that was a bad idea. |
Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Heavy Influence
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.15 16:09:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 15/06/2009 16:15:22
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 15/06/2009 16:14:41
More than that - if I know Rebellion as well as I think I do, the OP was running missions in Hale. Let's have a look at that KM...
Thought so - G-O, the hub for the entirety of Hale.
You, therefore, were running missions in a quite valuable ship, in Rebellion Alliance's HOME SYSTEM. I lived a system next door with Tenth Legion for a while - they tend to have lots of people in local there who like using scan probes. You wonder why you got popped and blame it on game mechanics? 
TBH, I'd move my location away from Hale entirely down to Paradise or Tranquility. At least then you're far more likely to run into some of my old friends. 
________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Get out Mindstar, or I'll punch you in the ovaries. |
iudex
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.15 20:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Scientific Method
Try reading the thread? The genius OP was missioning with 39 hostiles in local, and can't understand why that was a bad idea.
If you knew anything about the issue mentioned in this thread, you'd realise that you have no point. It's harder to find a specific ship when there are 20 other mission-runners in the system than when it's alone, especially with the new system.
Also this has nothing to do with the ship itself but with the new scanning mechanics. In fact a CNR is harder to find than a raven or drake (sensor strength / sig radius relation), and people keep probing no matter what ship one uses.
To make it short: before probing change it was possible to do missions, now it is not. The rest (like choice of ship or people in local) can't be the problem, since it existed before the change as well and didn't hinder me from doing missions there over 2 years.
It's the probing change, that allows a secure method of finding a ship within 10-15 minute, that ruins the mission-running, nothing else, everyone with more than 3 braincells will realise this. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.16 07:51:00 -
[45]
10-15 minutes? They must be doing something very wrong. Also,
Originally by: Scientific Method
The genius OP was missioning with 39 hostiles in local, and can't understand why that was a bad idea.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.16 08:47:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Durzel on 16/06/2009 08:50:18
Irrespective of anything relating to probing whatsoever missioning in a hostile alliance's HOME SYSTEM with 39 of them in local with you is insane.
If they didn't get you in the mission they could've just as easily bubbled everywhere you'd ever be likely to go and deal with you there.
The whole probing aspect of this story is entirely incidental because it would not matter if they'd been able to find you in a minute or 10 minutes.
Originally by: iudex
If you knew anything about the issue mentioned in this thread, you'd realise that you have no point. It's harder to find a specific ship when there are 20 other mission-runners in the system than when it's alone, especially with the new system.
I doubt it's particularly hard to find a specific ship when every other ship in the system is a) on the alliance channel and can say where they are and b) has stopped missioning to try and get on a CNR killmail.
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iudex
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Durzel
Edited by: Durzel on 16/06/2009 08:50:18
Irrespective of anything relating to probing whatsoever missioning in a hostile alliance's HOME SYSTEM with 39 of them in local with you is insane.
If they didn't get you in the mission they could've just as easily bubbled everywhere you'd ever be likely to go and deal with you there.
The whole probing aspect of this story is entirely incidental because it would not matter if they'd been able to find you in a minute or 10 minutes.
a) It's not their HOME, in first line it's Angel Cartel sovereignty with NPC stations, many alliances come there, stay for few months and go again (e.g. LV, iPod, TCF, Goonswarm, United Legion and many other next to that Russians, who currently sit there). I was there years before they came.
b) Learn to avoid bubbles, it's not hard if you know how, the problem is the secure scanning hit, not some bubbles. The system was always hostile to me and I'd not get over 8 faction standing to Angel Cartel if bubbles were an issue.
c) It doesn't matter if 1 or 10 minutes, i said "within" - most of lvl 4 missions requires more time to complete than that. Hopping in and out all the time isn't an option, sometimes you have to travel from gate to gate and can't even be alligned. It was balanced and worked well with old system, hostile visitors were absolutely rare in my mission spot. With the new system they are common. That's what i complain about, nothing else, the secure way to find a ship within a short period of time.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.17 19:54:00 -
[48]
You cannot be serious. There's 39 of them in system. Of course it's their bloody home. And you think you deserve to be able to run missions as safely as if it were Motsu?
PVE really does rot your brain, it seems. 
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iudex
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 20:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gypsio III
You cannot be serious. There's 39 of them in system. Of course it's their bloody home. And you think you deserve to be able to run missions as safely as if it were Motsu?
PVE really does rot your brain, it seems.
Please stay away from discussions when you don't know the exact facts, Gypsion. Those 39 were not from the same corp, not even the same alliance. Many of them were doing missions, probably blue to each other but no way all on same coms. Others permadocked, at least one of them had a CNR as well (visible on scanner).
There are usually 1-2 people probing. If they send out their probes and I'm the only ship, they quickly get a hit and find me, when there are lots of others they get lots of hits, which decreases their chances to find me with the first try and not vice versa.
Again, it worked fine before the probing change UNDER SAME CONDITIONS. This thread is about how the probing nerfed 0.0 mission-runners and nothing else.
Last time they found me was a couple of days ago and there were only 8 in system. Your "omg it's only because 39 in system" logic is pointless, if you can't add something constructive to the discussion about the actual problem, stay away and post somewhere else. |
Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.17 21:26:00 -
[50]
I fail to see the problem. Missioning in 0.0 with any number of hostiles in local is presumably risky, which is why you are awarded the Big Rewards.
Missioning for any length of time with no loss was unbalanced, and has since been fixed.
Your options: get blue with the local blobs or bring a blob of your own. Vigorous blobbing is the intended 0.0 mechanic, soloing is not.
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Rip Minner
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:33:00 -
[51]
I dont like it ether. I use to run low sec missions before you could be probed out. Now for get it. You can no longer solo missions in low sec or 0.0. Reliable to make a profit. You need the normal blob. |
My LittleFriend
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:12:00 -
[52]
summary: I want to be immune while carebearing it up in someone else's space (what i really want but won't say it: instanced missions)
response: this is eve, you are and should be constantly in danger, deal with it
sage |
thoth rothschild
Strategic Solutions Ltd.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.18 07:21:00 -
[53]
Edited by: thoth rothschild on 18/06/2009 07:26:32
How often you were killed before?
Missionrunning in 0.0 and low is profitable because it is risky.
When i fly in such Space i am aware that i might get podded.
There are people specialized on hunting and killing so called mission runenrs in low and 0.0 Sec. They will always find you.
They are patient and they are really experienced in finding and killing those they refer as "carebears".
Some times you get lucky and the system is under the control of lazy people, who do not like to spend so much time finding a solo raven. Sometimes you are lost because the people are bored and willing to search for their fun.
No risk, no fun. Be honest it would be boring without the thrill.
Now you will state." it was risky, now it is impossible" and i will answer "0.0 missions were not ment to be made solo and eve is a teamgame" |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.06.18 08:58:00 -
[54]
If you cant beat them, join them..
If the game changed, and I'm in deep doubt ccp will change it back, you'll have to make a choice..
Forge '07 on Sale
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Ewe Shagger
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Posted - 2009.06.18 09:55:00 -
[55]
iudex you are not paying attention...
the guy would have found you. he used a trick i been using for ages.
one probe to get the id of the target you want. and then waits 1 mintute for you to get where youre going to. then procedes to scan you down
Rebellion alliance. good job on the scanning down and use of game mechanics.
If i could be assed I would want to join you guys but happy where i am for now..
I love running missions for angel cartel. |
Jack Dant
Minmatar
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.18 10:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: thoth rothschild
and it¦s not that scanning is broken it¦s more like. more people do scan these days because they "discovered" the scanning once the wh space was introduced. Before Patch a good Prober was faster.
That's not true, actually. I scanned mission runners both pre and post-patch, and it's much easier now. The old system was slightly faster if you could drop a quest probe within 4 AU of the missioner, but in most cases that was not possible without lots of bookmarks in system. If you had to use recon probes, you could scan for hours with no results.
With the new system, I just need to know either the ship's name (if I can get within directional scanner range) or the scan ID. With either of those, I can get a warp in to a missioner under 5 minutes.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.18 10:19:00 -
[57]
Under the old system, probing mission-runners in any sensible timeframe with any reliability required you to be within 4 AU. It was stupid - mission-runners were simply far too safe. To get reliable hits, you had to have complete coverage of the system with BMs, allowing to get within 4 AU and use Quest or Pursuit, which entailed hours and hours of spamming BMs, probing out abandoned drones and even running your own missions to get off-plane BMs. I had over one thousand BMs in my home system, causing horrific lag whenever I opened the system map. Otherwise, you were limited to dropping Snoop/Fathom, and endlessly hitting "scan" and getting nothing.
It was stupid. It should never have been that hard to probe out mission-runners - running missions in hostile space should not be a sensible course of action. In the current system, security is provide by your degree of control of the system, which is as it should be. The mission-runner is responsible for his own safety, not some silly sig-strength multiplier, and it's absurd to to think that he should be able to waltz into an occupied, hostile system on his own and help himself to its resources with impunity.
I fully understand why Iudex is annoyed - missioning in hostile space is now a lot more dangerous - but I believe that the old system was wrong and unfair.
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iudex
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.18 12:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: thoth rothschild
...
No risk, no fun. Be honest it would be boring without the thrill.
Now you will state." it was risky, now it is impossible" and i will answer "0.0 missions were not ment to be made solo and eve is a teamgame"
Originally by: Gypsio III
... mission-runners were simply far too safe. ... It should never have been that hard to probe out mission-runners - running missions in hostile space should not be a sensible course of action. ... it's absurd to to think that he should be able to waltz into an occupied, hostile system on his own and help himself to its resources with impunity.
... I believe that the old system was wrong and unfair.
Since we now agree on the mechanics you guys evaluate the situation and say 0.0 is for alliances to occupy, people shouldn't be able to do missions solo because this is unfair.
Alliances have a lot of place in 0.0 where they can build a home, establish sovereignty, build stations etc. NPC space isn't for them in first place, it's for the smaller corps and individual players, there is no reason why 0.0 missions "were not made to be done solo", it's a place for everyone, like lowsec, there is no reason why someone should be excluded per se. It was an interesting opportunity for an individual pilots to gain a foothold in 0.0 before that probing change.
At no point it was easy to do missions there, i was living there for years, lost quite a few ravens and learnt lot's of tricks in order to be able to survive. It's not like you walk in and do missions in safety. There are lot's of natural drawbacks, e.g. that one is not able to accept missions in neighbour systems, always have to watch for bubbles (especially directional bubbles placed in the right direction in order to catch the returning ship 40km off station). It was balanced in terms of risk-vs-reward, actually it was less profitable compared to highsec mission-running with officer fitting, when taking the occasional loss into account and the risk/effort to bring the lp-rewards to highsec.
And there is proof for it. During all that years there were hardly more than 5 neutral/independent missionrunners in that system, although it's one of the 2 major hubs for Angels (10 lvl 4 q20 agents). Whereas in highsec you see up to 150 people in systems like Irjunen or Motsu.
If it were so unbalanced and unfair, like you say, we'd see a lot of more people doing 0.0 missions before the nerf. It was no way unbalanced, it was something risky to do but now it was broken and is impossible. The low numbers of people doing it proved that it wasn't unfair, and no one was complaining about it, it was broken because the Devs didn't think about it - or simply didn't care.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:43:00 -
[59]
Alliances have nothing to do with this issue, and I don't see why you're bringing them up, or why you're giving the impression that only non-NPC 0.0 can, or should be able to, be "claimed".
Any player or group of players can choose to claim whatever piece of space that they like, but such a claim is worthless if it cannot be enforced. You may think that you have a claim on the system, but you are unwilling or unable to enforce it. Now the inhabitants of this system have claimed it, and they are enforcing their claim. If you wish to use their space, then your options are to neutralise their superiority by force or by diplomacy. It's understandable that you're unhappy with this, given the previous probing mechanics, but the current system is appropriate because it's Eve in microcosm - it's their system, so they set the rules. |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.06.19 08:41:00 -
[60]
The OP might have a point only if everybody else were missioning in the same system with a CNR. If he was the only one with a CNR (or even one of three or four) even with the old system it would have taken a decent prober about 100 sec to find him.
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