• Microwarpdrive II convo'd me asking if i wanted to join Goonfleet and come on down to delve for some fun. This was after i had placed an add in the recruitment channel after being away in Afghanistan (RL soldier British Army) for 7 months and i had setup my own one man corp before i left. I had flown with the Goons in the days of being part of IAC (when that too was remotely loyal to each other) and didn't see or perceive anything to be suspicious. MWD and I shot the **** for a little while in a convo and i accepted the invite. I left my own corp (read timer countdown) and applied at Jita for the goonfleet in line with MWD's direction. I was then asked how soon could i get down to delve to prepare for ops etc, the answer of course was 'hey, when d'ya need me? i havnt played for a while and just want to play the game again with like minded individuals again and have some fun'. The answer back from MWD, was an invite to come straight down, i was assured my corp standings had been set to 'Blue' and they could even help me move assets if i wanted. How very nice of them! i thought! (read idiot). Pieceofmind (another char) came into the convo and asked where to collect my stuff from. I done the usual bartering of space in m3 and time to sort it all out, ironically he was in Jita at the time...........Motsu's not far away huh? and the next run up here is in 3 weeks! So, i contracted all of my ships (fully fitted strat cruiser (Tengu) with all subsystem options, Command ship (nighthawk), Basalisk, Inty, Ferox, and a few others with faction mods taboot Now whilst you're reading this i know what you're saying "what a bloody idiot", and i don't disagree with you either, the fact is i 'just wanted to play' and i didn't wanna hang around waiting to do it. I trusted the in hindsight, untrustworthy, based on previous experience with them. I made my way down to delve (40 odd jumps) and whilst i was on route, noticed that Microwarpdrive and pieceofmind had dropped from convo. On trying to start a convo or message them, guess what? i was blocked. on arrival in Delve, Goons everywhere tried to pop me wherever i went. O-H was the system i was sent too. I noticed that pieceofmind was in local but wasn't answering any local calls, infact i was just slated and spammed by everyone else. Oh dear! not good. Then Solar Silver convo'd me and asked if she could help. I explained what had happened. She came back to me 5 mins later and assured me everything was ok with my freight, it would be held in the station and contracted back to me. Apparently she had spoken to MWD in RL and he was having drams with his kids and so was offline. A phonecall to pieceofmind by her also found that he was AFK but would be back in a few hours. I mentioned about the standings and that clearly they had not been set, Goons are NBSI. Minutes later i am talking to Yaacov who introduces himself as the Stn Manager for Goonswarm asking me if MWD mentioned a deposit for docking in the Stn. I explained i didnt have 500 mill (the cost) and that my assets being held should be enough to show that i am not about to war dec the goons in a one man corp! however, drivvle spouted to me about auto API entry into wallet etc, and it had to show as a temporary standings entry for a corp. Yaacov agreed to accept 250 mill, after he said he had spoken to alliance Headshed who would make an acception. i had 237. he gave me the difference, i paid him, he logged off!
  Enter stage left an automatic fear of being had over. I entered the convo with Solar Silver, i entered, hi Solar, or is it microwarpdrive? 'Bah you got me' was the reply....'nope,......i think you got me!' was mine!

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

A lot of characters involved in an elaborate, and to a certain extent well executed scam.
the fact of the matter is that my character was left with nuthin cept a cov ops ship. I had lost 3 yrs of asset growing, and around 10 bill of assets (originally thought less than that). Never say never in Eve, that is true, but the fact is that a scam of that magnitude has forced me to end the game and therfore, end my payment to CCP. There are scams and there are scams, then there's just down right bloody dirty. What had happened to me was un-acceptable. My assets were seen as more attractive than 'just another pilot' in a large alliance, and probably worth the publicity.
Well done Goons, Well done!

Regards all to those who play EVE, it has been enjoyable to play in every way and all i was looking for in a game. I managed to hold the game to RL committments, and in my line of work, thats been busy!

Last night i saw for the first time something that i have never seen. Apart from the scam, it was rotating silvery words that zoomed in from a far away perspective point. It said,
GAME OVER

Regards

[email protected]

PS: Comments or thoughts accepted to the above email address.

---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal

---

I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.

---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal

---

it does get progressively longer.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

the fact of the matter is that my character was left with nuthin cept a cov ops ship.

---

Originally by: Kage Toshimado As soon as I read the title I thought, why? Why don't people learn? I won't even stay in the same chat as a goonfleet pilot.[/quote

---

This.

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

...and only makes people bloody miserable.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

Personally, i don't think the game needs this sort of dynamic to it. it's not necessary and only makes people bloody miserable.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

yep i agree with all.

My point is that i 'wanted to play again', i rushed in, i let down my guard and got bummed in the process. Personally, i don't think the game needs this sort of dynamic to it. it's not necessary and only makes people bloody miserable.

;-)

---

Originally by: Durzel

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

yep i agree with all.

My point is that i 'wanted to play again', i rushed in, i let down my guard and got bummed in the process. Personally, i don't think the game needs this sort of dynamic to it. it's not necessary and only makes people bloody miserable.

;-)

---

How can you play for 3 years and not know that scamming is a big part of Eve?

Furthermore contracting away your entire assets with nothing to fall back on is just plain stupid regardless of who's asking you and their legitimacy.

I'm sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who has been playing the game for 3 years and STILL manages to get scammed by one of the most obvious confidence tricks in the book.

---

Quote:

---

As soon as I read the title I thought, why? Why don't people learn?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

I'm not after sympathy from anyone and if you read my post correctly, i have congratualted them for their scam.

---

Originally by: Zaqar

---

Honest question: While you were in the process of contracting every single thing that you owned to a goon, did you not even have a slight feeling that it might not be such a good idea?

---

Originally by: Durzel

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

I'm not after sympathy from anyone and if you read my post correctly, i have congratualted them for their scam.

---

You're not asking for sympathy yet you're lamenting about how this scam means "the end of the game for me" in the thread title and in your first post.

As someone who is in the forces I would've presumed you would be au fait with the quote "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall".

So you're back to square one, you've learnt a very expensive lesson and are richer (experience wise) for it. Someone with approx 3 years of skill training & standings would find it much easier to get back on their feet than a 1 day old noob.

---

Originally by: Zaqar

---

Well, there's nothing I can tell you that you don't already know. Except don't quit - you're not your posessions, you're not your ship. Use what you've got left to get back on your feet. Call in some favours.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

My point remains that i have been subjected to a dynamic of the game that whilst i agree adds a dimension, its not a dimension i want in it. It is for that reason that i am quitting.

I am not sulking, i am making a point. THAT, is my point. Cheers.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

and i could easily call in some favours too and thanks for the EMails to those who have offered support / isk. No....this is not a scam BTW.

---

Originally by: Taram Caldar

---

I find myself wondering 2 things:
1) How many people have been suckered into sending this guy sympathy money...

2) Why anyone believes that a 3 year vet would want to join Goons....

---

Originally by: denwo togu

---

Edited by: denwo togu on 13/05/2009 13:54:49

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

and i could easily call in some favours too and thanks for the EMails to those who have offered support / isk. No....this is not a scam BTW.

---

Quote:

---

Lol, I'm thinking that this thread may be a brilliant scam. Get some sympathy iskies from a bunch of bleeding hearts by mentioning the goons and a huge scam...laugh all the way to the bank.

---

The reverse GS scam. They tapped out their resources on the recruitment scam, so now post on alt's for the sympathy scam. You can't trust anyone in this game. You hear stories of RL Friends robbing each other blind, RL Employees stealing passwords of their Boss to rob them blind. It's the nature of the EvE Beast.

I'm basically a n00b, < 5 mil SP. I knew at 1 mil SP, never trust a Goon.

Originally by: Taram Caldar

---

I find myself wondering 2 things:
1) How many people have been suckered into sending this guy sympathy money...

2) Why anyone believes that a 3 year vet would want to join Goons....

---

Originally by: Kavu

---

sounds cool
can i have your stu- wait nevermind

---

Originally by: Vargrr Yewl

---

I'm a newb that hasn't been in game long (about 1m), but even I have heard of the Goonswarm and their recruiting techniques. Most of which I have learnt from these very forums.

I wonder how they manage to trust each other during raids - I guess most of their members are always looking over their shoulders.

Vargrr

---

Originally by: Tzest0r

---

yeah
another troll that tries to trow dirt on the good guys

---

Originally by: Veto Nalloc

---

another half intelligent goon scamming the unsuspecting posting in a thread with a completely un-intelligent response. makes you wonder how the scam even got off the ground....

---

Originally by: Gyyrphalkun

---

The goons didn't take all your stuff. They gave you a purpose ... sweet, sweet revenge. And it only cost you 10 B isk. Cheap at twice the price.

---

Originally by: Smokkmeballs

---

Hell man, my main is in Goons and even I dont trust my own corp and alliance mates! Next time do some more reading before applying! Only way to get in is join somethingawful.com forums! and follow the rules laid down there!'



Still made me laugh thou!

---

Originally by: Cado Orgo

---

Funny how a group of people can go from liberating EVE of the douchebaggery that was BoB to becoming the douchebags themselves.

---

Originally by: Cado Orgo

---

Funny how a group of people can go from liberating EVE of the douchebaggery that was BoB to becoming the douchebags themselves.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

but to be honest the wife has had a tit job and boy do they look good!

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

yep i agree with all.

My point is that i 'wanted to play again', i rushed in, i let down my guard and got bummed in the process. Personally, i don't think the game needs this sort of dynamic to it. it's not necessary and only makes people bloody miserable.

;-)

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

I'm not after sympathy from anyone and if you read my post correctly, i have congratualted them for their scam.

The lesson of the sotry is dont rush in.

And for your info, i have been playing for 3 yrs, but during that time i have been at war twice - Iraq and Afghanistan.

RL doesn't stop because a game demands it........thats when the whole world plunges into an even further chaotic abyss that it is in now!

KK, thanks for your comments, end now.

---

Originally by: Durzel

---

How can you play for 3 years and not know that scamming is a big part of Eve?

---

Originally by: Solar Silver

---

Originally by: Smokkmeballs

---

Hell man, my main is in Goons and even I dont trust my own corp and alliance mates! Next time do some more reading before applying! Only way to get in is join somethingawful.com forums! and follow the rules laid down there!'



Still made me laugh thou!

---

Yes being in the military myself I felt a little bad about taking your isk man but my game personality/morals is something totally different from me in real life. I agree with Smokkmeballs totally even goons cannot trust each other with anything of value.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

* delete as applicable

Hello, I'm random EvE nobody #27845. Most of you have will have never seen me in game or on this forum. A few of you know me from [insert link for this weeks drama filled post] where I was in a rather heated online argument about [insert subject of stuff no-one cares about]. I have to say I'm disappointed in the EvE community. I won't name names in this post even though the entire community knows who I'm talking about. That way I can always point to my post saying, "I NEVER SAID YOUR NAME!" This gives me the moral high ground. I didn't like the way that you did that thing you did, and the [killmail links/mocking posts/scam*] about me hurt my feelings. Yes, I realize there are different opinions in a community this size but I'll let the comments of a few nasty bitter posters/actions of people in-game colour my whole perception of this place. So I'm leaving forever. Forever ever? And ever ever? Yes. Although I will still answer all the comments people leave me and I'll reappear if my name is mentioned. But after that, I'm TOTALLY gone.
Now I'll write about all the cool things I used to like about this community/game and talk about how it has changed for the worse. But I don't realize that by knocking the community, I'm basically insulting everyone who chooses to stay even if they weren't involved in [insert link for this weeks drama filled post]. I make people feel like they have to justify why they'd remain in such an evil community. After all, if I'm leaving, it has to be horrible. IÆll make some general negative comments about the entire community, once again making us into a mono-faceted group of people just because we have one thing in common. Not like me, however because I'm different. I see the dark undercurrent beneath the EvE community. Obviously, EvE is serious business to me, because when I click the link titled, "delete account" it doesnÆt make me write this post. No, I want to leave with a BANG! I want to appear righteous. But here is the part I don't understand, even if I'm polite and have several valid points, no one will care because a goodbye post is just rude internet etiquette. So by being rude, I'm just as bad as the people I'm angry at. But keep a look out for me in the future! Because almost everyone who has written a goodbye post continues to lurk and eventually comes back a few months later, hoping the community has forgotten.
Now I will prepare to be baffled by the immensely negative response my post gets.
Signed, EvE nobody #27845

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

Personally, i don't think the game needs this sort of dynamic to it. it's not necessary and only makes people bloody miserable.

;-)

---

Originally by: Weight What

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

the fact of the matter is that my character was left with nuthin cept a cov ops ship.

---

the fact of the matter is that you started this game with nothing but a noob ship.

Originally by: Poena Loveless

---

Originally by: Weight What

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

the fact of the matter is that my character was left with nuthin cept a cov ops ship.

---

the fact of the matter is that you started this game with nothing but a noob ship.

---

Ironic that he is finishing with that as well :P

Originally by: Vars Shaylo

---

Fake.

---

Originally by: Kazang

---

Why would you want to join a corp who endorses this sort of scam?

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

asking if i wanted to join Goonfleet

---

Originally by: Solar Silver

---

I explained that to him just after taking his last few isk. I will give it to him, he was a good sport about it until I linked him to the authentication thread and he read the big red words telling him he had been scammed. At that point he was a little less of a sport, pity he is leaving eve due to a scam. Yes being in the military myself I felt a little bad about taking your isk man but my game personality/morals is something totally different from me in real life. I agree with Smokkmeballs totally even goons cannot trust each other with anything of value.

---

Originally by: Jatri

---

Edited by: Jatri on 14/05/2009 12:34:03

Originally by: Solar Silver

---

I explained that to him just after taking his last few isk. I will give it to him, he was a good sport about it until I linked him to the authentication thread and he read the big red words telling him he had been scammed. At that point he was a little less of a sport, pity he is leaving eve due to a scam. Yes being in the military myself I felt a little bad about taking your isk man but my game personality/morals is something totally different from me in real life. I agree with Smokkmeballs totally even goons cannot trust each other with anything of value.

---

I always love when people use an excuse of "I'm really just a douche bag in game but in RL I'm cool". Sorry but, if you act like a ass in game it's 99% certain you are likely and ass in RL, but it's cool that you try to fool yourself.

Unless of course you are a gay RPer but then you just wish you could be an ass in RL.

---

Originally by: The BigOne

---

I call BS. Someone this stupid doesn't come by 10 billion legitimately. My money says he'll still be active in 6 months.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

just want to play the game again with like minded individuals again and have some fun.

---

Originally by: Lana Torrin

---

I was going to respond to this and smack you down, but you know what... Keep on believing that. I mean, its internet spaceships! Its very serious business!

---

Originally by: Some Ore

---

qq internet tough guy rage

---

Originally by: Jatri

---

Edited by: Jatri on 14/05/2009 12:34:03

Originally by: Solar Silver

---

I explained that to him just after taking his last few isk. I will give it to him, he was a good sport about it until I linked him to the authentication thread and he read the big red words telling him he had been scammed. At that point he was a little less of a sport, pity he is leaving eve due to a scam. Yes being in the military myself I felt a little bad about taking your isk man but my game personality/morals is something totally different from me in real life. I agree with Smokkmeballs totally even goons cannot trust each other with anything of value.

---

I always love when people use an excuse of "I'm really just a douche bag in game but in RL I'm cool". Sorry but, if you act like a ass in game it's 99% certain you are likely and ass in RL, but it's cool that you try to fool yourself.

Unless of course you are a gay RPer but then you just wish you could be an ass in RL.

---

Originally by: Cyrdax

---

Originally by: Some Ore

---

qq internet tough guy rage

---

seriously?

i don't know about lana but just reading your tears on the forums is worth $15 a month for me, being able to log in and scam people is just gravy

---

Originally by: Some Ore

---

It's internet spaceships is precisely the reason why he's right. If you need to exploit and cheat people to this degree to enjoy yourself on a video game, you are a pathetic individual, in the game or out. There is nothing inbetween those two points influencing your actions.

I'm sure you wouldn't cheat a grandma in real life, but that's because there are real consequences. I'm sure if this Marine who has served and protected your country (US, England, w/e. If your not a terrorist he has) could pay you back outside of pixels you would think twice, and that doesn't make you morally righteous, it just makes you a coward.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

Sure, yep another fair point, but to be honest the wife has had a tit job and boy do they look good! So.............back to the wife for a few years, till the next game comes along!
;-)

---

Originally by: Some Ore

---

Originally by: Lana Torrin

---

I was going to respond to this and smack you down, but you know what... Keep on believing that. I mean, its internet spaceships! Its very serious business!

---

It's internet spaceships is precisely the reason why he's right. If you need to exploit and cheat people to this degree to enjoy yourself on a video game, you are a pathetic individual, in the game or out. There is nothing inbetween those two points influencing your actions.

I'm sure you wouldn't cheat a grandma in real life, but that's because there are real consequences. I'm sure if this Marine who has served and protected your country (US, England, w/e. If your not a terrorist he has) could pay you back outside of pixels you would think twice, and that doesn't make you morally righteous, it just makes you a coward.

---

Originally by: Kavu

---

whatever, i think its awesome, funny part is:

A) This happens quite often why do people keep falling for it?

B) There are like 50 simmilar forum threads, why do people keep falling for it?

C) Most people in the game more than a month know about this, why do people keep falling for it?

and D) why do people keep falling for it?

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Oh boy! Another emotionally impaired r-tard with with an over inflated sense of entitlement who cannot differentiate the difference between a game and real-life!

---

Originally by: Some Ore

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Oh boy! Another emotionally impaired r-tard with with an over inflated sense of entitlement who cannot differentiate the difference between a game and real-life!

---

Treating people with respect in or out of a game, which is a social game btw, does not make me the r-tard. You are the one who thinks internet animosity is different from doing it in the real world. The only difference is you escape immediate repercussions.

There is no difference from being an a-hole in game or out. Your still an a-hole. And like I said, the reason you don't scam or cheat in real life is your too much of a coward to pay the price.

---

Originally by: Kavu

---

I have this char and ill scam, steal and shoot everything/everyone in sight but what about my 3 alts that are nice respectable carebears who have positive sec status and would never steal or scam ever?

---

Originally by: Some Ore

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Oh boy! Another emotionally impaired r-tard with with an over inflated sense of entitlement who cannot differentiate the difference between a game and real-life!

---

Treating people with respect in or out of a game, which is a social game btw, does not make me the r-tard. You are the one who thinks internet animosity is different from doing it in the real world. The only difference is you escape immediate repercussions.

There is no difference from being an a-hole in game or out. Your still an a-hole. And like I said, the reason you don't scam or cheat in real life is your too much of a coward to pay the price.

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Edited by: Rheed on 14/05/2009 17:03:31

Originally by: Some Ore

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Oh boy! Another emotionally impaired r-tard with with an over inflated sense of entitlement who cannot differentiate the difference between a game and real-life!

---

Treating people with respect in or out of a game, which is a social game btw, does not make me the r-tard. You are the one who thinks internet animosity is different from doing it in the real world. The only difference is you escape immediate repercussions.

There is no difference from being an a-hole in game or out. Your still an a-hole. And like I said, the reason you don't scam or cheat in real life is your too much of a coward to pay the price.

---

Who are you treating with respect again? Didn't you just say that people who play this VIDEO GAME the way the game is intended to be played have real life problems and are cowards? Is that what you mean by treating people with respect?

I would like to add that you are also a hypocrite.

People who cry about "Intarnet anonimity" (I say anonimity because animosity makes no sense in this context) are the types of people who, if they had the right information, would actually get in their car and take a lead pipe to someone who blew up their hulk while they were afk mining.

Let me assure you, I am a **** in game, but there is absolutly NOTHING you can do to me in a video game that would make me want to do any kind of physical or financial harm to you in real life. And it is not because I am afraid to do it, it is because it is wrong to do it - moraly and ethically. There are no morals or ethics in a video game because it is not real. There are only rules stated in the EULA and game mechanics.

Emotional harm is your problem... not mine.

*edited to expand on a point

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

yep i agree with all.

My point is that i 'wanted to play again', i rushed in, i let down my guard and got bummed in the process. Personally, i don't think the game needs this sort of dynamic to it. it's not necessary and only makes people bloody miserable.

;-)

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

o after being away in Afghanistan (RL soldier British Army) for 7 months

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

People who are douches in a game, when given the chance irl to be a douche with no consequences will do so immediately. Where do you think the propensity to be a **** in a video game comes from? From the part of your psyche that is suppressed irl so that you can function in the real world and achieve what it is you are after, when there is no consequence to your actions I guarantee you would be just as much of a douche as your anonymous persona in a video game. This has been demonstrated time and time again with rl situations like the collapse of governments and the chaos that ensues afterwards, rioting/looting when there are no others around to enforce laws...etc...its human nature...you and every other douche bag in this game is just good at suppressing your ID enough to not hinder your rl. With freedom from consequence the superego and ego are lost to the wind.

It is fear of consequence that keeps you from doing something irl...it's part of being human, you may not be aware of the fact that you supress urges like that, but a part of your psyche does analyse what would happen if...then takes the appropriate actions to allow you as an organism to take the percieved path of least resistance...some people fail at it and end up dead or in jail...there is no moral high ground for those who would cheat and steal and be a general douche in a video game irl, it's all about survival of the organism that prevents them from acting out their fantasies of being a douche irl.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Actually the people like you who generalise and categorize people into groups based on online interaction are worse than the so called douches, thats hillarious, its a game. You dont think people are intelligent enough to seperate fantasy from reality. Oh no wait you call that being afraid of concequences. I call it playing a game.

---

Originally by: Kavu

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

People who are douches in a game, when given the chance irl to be a douche with no consequences will do so immediately. Where do you think the propensity to be a **** in a video game comes from? From the part of your psyche that is suppressed irl so that you can function in the real world and achieve what it is you are after, when there is no consequence to your actions I guarantee you would be just as much of a douche as your anonymous persona in a video game. This has been demonstrated time and time again with rl situations like the collapse of governments and the chaos that ensues afterwards, rioting/looting when there are no others around to enforce laws...etc...its human nature...you and every other douche bag in this game is just good at suppressing your ID enough to not hinder your rl. With freedom from consequence the superego and ego are lost to the wind.

It is fear of consequence that keeps you from doing something irl...it's part of being human, you may not be aware of the fact that you supress urges like that, but a part of your psyche does analyse what would happen if...then takes the appropriate actions to allow you as an organism to take the percieved path of least resistance...some people fail at it and end up dead or in jail...there is no moral high ground for those who would cheat and steal and be a general douche in a video game irl, it's all about survival of the organism that prevents them from acting out their fantasies of being a douche irl.

---

lol
You are an idiot, you have no idea who I am or where I live or what I do for a job or anyone else you might be talking about for that matter. So you have no basis for saying douche, jerk, ****, whatever ingame = the same IRL.

Actually the people like you who generalise and categorize people into groups based on online interaction are worse than the so called douches, thats hillarious, its a game. You dont think people are intelligent enough to seperate fantasy from reality. Oh no wait you call that being afraid of concequences. I call it playing a game.

---

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

A lot of characters involved in an elaborate, and to a certain extent well executed scam.
the fact of the matter is that my character was left with nuthin cept a cov ops ship. I had lost 3 yrs of asset growing, and around 10 bill of assets (originally thought less than that). Never say never in Eve, that is true, but the fact is that a scam of that magnitude has forced me to end the game and therfore, end my payment to CCP. There are scams and there are scams, then there's just down right bloody dirty. What had happened to me was un-acceptable. My assets were seen as more attractive than 'just another pilot' in a large alliance, and probably worth the publicity.
Well done Goons, Well done!

Regards all to those who play EVE, it has been enjoyable to play in every way and all i was looking for in a game. I managed to hold the game to RL committments, and in my line of work, thats been busy!

Last night i saw for the first time something that i have never seen. Apart from the scam, it was rotating silvery words that zoomed in from a far away perspective point. It said,
GAME OVER

Regards

[email protected]

PS: Comments or thoughts accepted to the above email address.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

No it's called a better understanding of human nature that you are able to admit to be true to yourself. ;)

Lulz, you prolly never even seen life outside your comfortable little suburban basement...I guarantee you life isn't pretty, neither is human nature...of which you freely let manifest itself through you in an environment where you have no consequences to your actual existence as an organism on this planet - given the chance to do whatever your instinct tells you - no motivating factor for your ego or superego to suppress your id, you freely give into the douchbaggery of you natural tendencies.

Please continue to espouse how great of a person you are, when you have to cling to a video game to release your true nature, because, irl you are too much of a coward to give into it.

Now, if you could actually admit to yourself and the rest of the real world of how much of a douche you really are deep down inside, then perhaps you might garner a little respect. ;)

---

Originally by: Susan Kennedy

---

Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 14/05/2009 19:08:37

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Actually the people like you who generalise and categorize people into groups based on online interaction are worse than the so called douches, thats hillarious, its a game. You dont think people are intelligent enough to seperate fantasy from reality. Oh no wait you call that being afraid of concequences. I call it playing a game.

---

I remember playing spy vs spy with a friend as a young man (google it if your not an old crustie)

After finishing the game, i immediately went into the hallway and set a selection of traps for him. He walked out of the bathroom , was caught in a rope trap, and struggled free only to step on an explosive mine i had placed. He died.

I think this is evidence enough that what we do in games, we will do in real life as well.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Originally by: Kavu

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

People who are douches in a game, when given the chance irl to be a douche with no consequences will do so immediately. Where do you think the propensity to be a **** in a video game comes from? From the part of your psyche that is suppressed irl so that you can function in the real world and achieve what it is you are after, when there is no consequence to your actions I guarantee you would be just as much of a douche as your anonymous persona in a video game. This has been demonstrated time and time again with rl situations like the collapse of governments and the chaos that ensues afterwards, rioting/looting when there are no others around to enforce laws...etc...its human nature...you and every other douche bag in this game is just good at suppressing your ID enough to not hinder your rl. With freedom from consequence the superego and ego are lost to the wind.

It is fear of consequence that keeps you from doing something irl...it's part of being human, you may not be aware of the fact that you supress urges like that, but a part of your psyche does analyse what would happen if...then takes the appropriate actions to allow you as an organism to take the percieved path of least resistance...some people fail at it and end up dead or in jail...there is no moral high ground for those who would cheat and steal and be a general douche in a video game irl, it's all about survival of the organism that prevents them from acting out their fantasies of being a douche irl.

---

lol
You are an idiot, you have no idea who I am or where I live or what I do for a job or anyone else you might be talking about for that matter. So you have no basis for saying douche, jerk, ****, whatever ingame = the same IRL.

Actually the people like you who generalise and categorize people into groups based on online interaction are worse than the so called douches, thats hillarious, its a game. You dont think people are intelligent enough to seperate fantasy from reality. Oh no wait you call that being afraid of concequences. I call it playing a game.

---

No it's called a better understanding of human nature that you are able to admit to be true to yourself. ;)

Lulz, you prolly never even seen life outside your comfortable little suburban basement...I guarantee you life isn't pretty, neither is human nature...of which you freely let manifest itself through you in an environment where you have no consequences to your actual existence as an organism on this planet - given the chance to do whatever your instinct tells you - no motivating factor for your ego or superego to suppress your id, you freely give into the douchbaggery of you natural tendencies.

Please continue to espouse how great of a person you are, when you have to cling to a video game to release your true nature, because, irl you are too much of a coward to give into it.

Now, if you could actually admit to yourself and the rest of the real world of how much of a douche you really are deep down inside, then perhaps you might garner a little respect. ;)

---

Originally by: Jimer Lins

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

No it's called a better understanding of human nature that you are able to admit to be true to yourself. ;)

Lulz, you prolly never even seen life outside your comfortable little suburban basement...I guarantee you life isn't pretty, neither is human nature...of which you freely let manifest itself through you in an environment where you have no consequences to your actual existence as an organism on this planet - given the chance to do whatever your instinct tells you - no motivating factor for your ego or superego to suppress your id, you freely give into the douchbaggery of you natural tendencies.

Please continue to espouse how great of a person you are, when you have to cling to a video game to release your true nature, because, irl you are too much of a coward to give into it.

Now, if you could actually admit to yourself and the rest of the real world of how much of a douche you really are deep down inside, then perhaps you might garner a little respect. ;)

---

Playing a game by the rules of the game, and taking up a role within that game, don't have any meaning about who or what you are/do in real life. By your (extraordinarily weak) logic, since I'm a mercenary in-game, I must be the kind of guy you could anonymously contact to kill someone for a pile of money.

Your logic is flawed, your arguments are weak, and your outlook is corrupt when you cannot discern the difference between a game and reality. What you're doing is actually worse than what you accuse others of- you're attaching real-life importance to actions taken within the framework of a system where consequence is supposed to not exist- that's the point of a bloody game. It's a deliberately intended feature of the system. You can't have a game with rules and roles, then assert "only bad people play the game by THOSE rules, you have to use MY rules, because I'm a better person." You're not a better person, you're just an arrogant twonk.

You can't have it both ways- it's either a game or it's real life. I don't have any problem separating the two, but you sure as hell seem to.

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Originally by: Kavu

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

People who are douches in a game, when given the chance irl to be a douche with no consequences will do so immediately. Where do you think the propensity to be a **** in a video game comes from? From the part of your psyche that is suppressed irl so that you can function in the real world and achieve what it is you are after, when there is no consequence to your actions I guarantee you would be just as much of a douche as your anonymous persona in a video game. This has been demonstrated time and time again with rl situations like the collapse of governments and the chaos that ensues afterwards, rioting/looting when there are no others around to enforce laws...etc...its human nature...you and every other douche bag in this game is just good at suppressing your ID enough to not hinder your rl. With freedom from consequence the superego and ego are lost to the wind.

It is fear of consequence that keeps you from doing something irl...it's part of being human, you may not be aware of the fact that you supress urges like that, but a part of your psyche does analyse what would happen if...then takes the appropriate actions to allow you as an organism to take the percieved path of least resistance...some people fail at it and end up dead or in jail...there is no moral high ground for those who would cheat and steal and be a general douche in a video game irl, it's all about survival of the organism that prevents them from acting out their fantasies of being a douche irl.

---

lol
You are an idiot, you have no idea who I am or where I live or what I do for a job or anyone else you might be talking about for that matter. So you have no basis for saying douche, jerk, ****, whatever ingame = the same IRL.

Actually the people like you who generalise and categorize people into groups based on online interaction are worse than the so called douches, thats hillarious, its a game. You dont think people are intelligent enough to seperate fantasy from reality. Oh no wait you call that being afraid of concequences. I call it playing a game.

---

No it's called a better understanding of human nature that you are able to admit to be true to yourself. ;)

Lulz, you prolly never even seen life outside your comfortable little suburban basement...I guarantee you life isn't pretty, neither is human nature...of which you freely let manifest itself through you in an environment where you have no consequences to your actual existence as an organism on this planet - given the chance to do whatever your instinct tells you - no motivating factor for your ego or superego to suppress your id, you freely give into the douchbaggery of you natural tendencies.

Please continue to espouse how great of a person you are, when you have to cling to a video game to release your true nature, because, irl you are too much of a coward to give into it.

Now, if you could actually admit to yourself and the rest of the real world of how much of a douche you really are deep down inside, then perhaps you might garner a little respect. ;)

---

I love flushing these idiots out :)

You are shooting arrows in the dark trying to find an emotional trigger because that's the only thing your feeble brain can come up with to "hurt" someone on the internet. You're too stupid to use game mechanics to protect yourself or seek retribution. You have no knowledge about human nature whatsoever.

I have to laugh at you because I am willing to bet that everything you are saying is more likely closer to YOUR life than it is to the people you are directing your comments to.

rage more please :)

---

Originally by: Harmony Loveflange

---

i wonder how many people emailed him from the same email their account is registered under...

---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal

---

I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.

---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal

---

it does get progressively longer.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

It's akin to being an ass when you're drunk, but this you aren't under the influence.

You want to know what someone is really really like, get them drunk so they let their true colors shine...lack of inhibition ftw...video game is just a different form of losing your inhibitions.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Actually I'm finding engaging in this little conversation with weaker beings quite enjoying. <3

If you embrace your inner douchbaggery then you can truly become enlightened and stop letting yourself hold back your true aspirations irl.

Look up The Rain by Orange Juice Jones ;)

---

Originally by: Jimer Lins

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

It's akin to being an ass when you're drunk, but this you aren't under the influence.

You want to know what someone is really really like, get them drunk so they let their true colors shine...lack of inhibition ftw...video game is just a different form of losing your inhibitions.

---

So playing EVE is like being drunk? Are you stupid or just drunk yourself?

It's a "role-playing" game. You take on a role. It's not a question of "inhibitions". It's a game, and there's rules. The rules say you can do A, B, and C- your argument seems to be that doing C means you're a defective human being, but action C is something arbitrarily chosen by you because you don't like the impact it has on your gameplay.

That is a specious argument and your attempts to connect gameplay specifically allowed and encouraged by the rules of the game with personality defects in the real world is more telling of your limitations than any flaws you may think you perceive in others. Grow an imagination.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Given the chance to act without consequence to your existence lets your true nature come through is all I'm saying.

99.999999% of you who engage in acts that would hinder your existence irl somewhere there is no consequence only speaks to what your true nature is, you're just too cowardly irl to admit it ;)

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Actually I'm finding engaging in this little conversation with weaker beings quite enjoying. <3

If you embrace your inner douchbaggery then you can truly become enlightened and stop letting yourself hold back your true aspirations irl.

Look up The Rain by Orange Juice Jones ;)

---

How deep do these wounds lie? How deep??

---

Originally by: Susan Kennedy

---

Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 14/05/2009 19:05:34
Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 14/05/2009 19:04:03

Originally by: WO2 Tiger

---

o after being away in Afghanistan (RL soldier British Army) for 7 months

---

Why do you feel the need to add this to your post.

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Given the chance to act without consequence to your existence lets your true nature come through is all I'm saying.

99.999999% of you who engage in acts that would hinder your existence irl somewhere there is no consequence only speaks to what your true nature is, you're just too cowardly irl to admit it ;)

---

But don't you see? This is where your logic fails. There really really IS consequence to your actions in this game. YOU are just unable to meet out the consequence.

Everything I do in this game has a consequence. I call the wrong person on this forum a douche I can end up being griefed and station locked for my entire gaming session.

You keep saying "irl". that makes absolutly no sense at all. You are saying I'm chicken **** because I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life?? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Given the chance to act without consequence to your existence lets your true nature come through is all I'm saying.

99.999999% of you who engage in acts that would hinder your existence irl somewhere there is no consequence only speaks to what your true nature is, you're just too cowardly irl to admit it ;)

---

But don't you see? This is where your logic fails. There really really IS consequence to your actions in this game. YOU are just unable to meet out the consequence.

Everything I do in this game has a consequence. I call the wrong person on this forum a douche I can end up being griefed and station locked for my entire gaming session.

You keep saying "irl". that makes absolutly no sense at all. You are saying I'm chicken **** because I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life?? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!

---

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
There are no consequences in a video game, you don't seem to grasp the point I am making, except you just affirmed what I have been saying "I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life??"

Without that consequence, you are letting your true nature shine through by being a douche in a video game ;)

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Given the chance to act without consequence to your existence lets your true nature come through is all I'm saying.

99.999999% of you who engage in acts that would hinder your existence irl somewhere there is no consequence only speaks to what your true nature is, you're just too cowardly irl to admit it ;)

---

But don't you see? This is where your logic fails. There really really IS consequence to your actions in this game. YOU are just unable to meet out the consequence.

Everything I do in this game has a consequence. I call the wrong person on this forum a douche I can end up being griefed and station locked for my entire gaming session.

You keep saying "irl". that makes absolutly no sense at all. You are saying I'm chicken **** because I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life?? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!

---

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
There are no consequences in a video game, you don't seem to grasp the point I am making, except you just affirmed what I have been saying "I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life??"

Without that consequence, you are letting your true nature shine through by being a douche in a video game ;)

---

God you are the most dim person I have ever spoken with... I only repeated what you said and said it was stupid. I neither confirmed or denied that statement.

You fail to grasp anything and this is not fun for me anymore... I'm starting to feel a little dirty... like I am punching a ****** or something.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
There are no consequences in a video game, you don't seem to grasp the point I am making, except you just affirmed what I have been saying "I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life??"

Without that consequence, you are letting your true nature shine through by being a douche in a video game ;)

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

You are saying I'm chicken **** because I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life?? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
There are no consequences in a video game, you don't seem to grasp the point I am making, except you just affirmed what I have been saying "I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life??"

Without that consequence, you are letting your true nature shine through by being a douche in a video game ;)

---

God you are the most dim person I have ever spoken with... I only repeated what you said and said it was stupid. I neither confirmed or denied that statement.

You fail to grasp anything and this is not fun for me anymore... I'm starting to feel a little dirty... like I am punching a ****** or something.

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

You are saying I'm chicken **** because I'm afraid to do something that will result me being locked up in jail or shot in real life?? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

No actually you are demonstrating your lack of intelligence quite well.

Not only did you affirm what I'm saying is true, you also repeated it in your own little way...

"I'm too afraid to do such and such b/c of such and such happening to me"

Released of these constraints in a video game, you will readily do those things that would bring undesirable consequences upon you irl. ;)

Unfortunately trying to debate anything about human nature with you is probably going to just make you have a nervous breakdown b/c you can't handle reading comprehension, or the fact that you only help my argument with your stupid rebuttals. ;)

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

Actually, you're failing at something you already failed at, you made it sounds ludicrous that you would even try to be a douche irl b/c of fear of real consequences such as jail, pain or death.

Without those consequences (ie. video game make believe land) you freely express your reptilian brain instincts and act out as you probably readily would given the removal of consequence irl.

Welcome to your true nature, embrace it and stop being a coward.

---

Originally by: Jimer Lins

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

No actually you are demonstrating your lack of intelligence quite well.

Not only did you affirm what I'm saying is true, you also repeated it in your own little way...

"I'm too afraid to do such and such b/c of such and such happening to me"

Released of these constraints in a video game, you will readily do those things that would bring undesirable consequences upon you irl. ;)

Unfortunately trying to debate anything about human nature with you is probably going to just make you have a nervous breakdown b/c you can't handle reading comprehension, or the fact that you only help my argument with your stupid rebuttals. ;)

---

Your ability to "debate" seems to consist of multiple fallacies, coupled with failure to address the specific counterpoints and rebuttals raised, and repeating the original (fallacious) assertions.

Among the fallacious elements in your arguments:

* Ad hominem ("douchebaggery")
* Red herring (Equating online gameplay with intoxication)
* Argumentum ad nauseum (repeating refuted fallacious arguments)
* Dicto simpliciter (Ignoring that it's allowed and encouraged to engage in negative behavior as part of the game)

At any rate, the fact is- once again- that playing the game by the rules doesn't make a person bad (or good). It just means they play the game. Taking up roles in a role-playing game is, as you would expect, the purpose of the game. One of the points of an RPG is to allow people to take on a role they would not identify with in their "real" life. It's inappropriate to use their choice of roles in a game specifically intended to allow a choice of roles to attach a pejorative connotation to them as a person outside of the game.

tl;dr- you're wrong in every way it is possible to be wrong, and you're fooling yourself if you believe you're capable of debate.

---

Originally by: Jimer Lins

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

No actually you are demonstrating your lack of intelligence quite well.

Not only did you affirm what I'm saying is true, you also repeated it in your own little way...

"I'm too afraid to do such and such b/c of such and such happening to me"

Released of these constraints in a video game, you will readily do those things that would bring undesirable consequences upon you irl. ;)

Unfortunately trying to debate anything about human nature with you is probably going to just make you have a nervous breakdown b/c you can't handle reading comprehension, or the fact that you only help my argument with your stupid rebuttals. ;)

---

Your ability to "debate" seems to consist of multiple fallacies, coupled with failure to address the specific counterpoints and rebuttals raised, and repeating the original (fallacious) assertions.

Among the fallacious elements in your arguments:

* Ad hominem ("douchebaggery")
* Red herring (Equating online gameplay with intoxication)
* Argumentum ad nauseum (repeating refuted fallacious arguments)
* Dicto simpliciter (Ignoring that it's allowed and encouraged to engage in negative behavior as part of the game)

At any rate, the fact is- once again- that playing the game by the rules doesn't make a person bad (or good). It just means they play the game. Taking up roles in a role-playing game is, as you would expect, the purpose of the game. One of the points of an RPG is to allow people to take on a role they would not identify with in their "real" life. It's inappropriate to use their choice of roles in a game specifically intended to allow a choice of roles to attach a pejorative connotation to them as a person outside of the game.

tl;dr- you're wrong in every way it is possible to be wrong, and you're fooling yourself if you believe you're capable of debate.

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

That's the whole point to RP, being able to do things you can't do in one's real life.

---

Quote:

---

If you are willing to participate in things unpalatable to the culture you exist within in a game, then you are living out the fantasies of what you really would do given the opportunity.

---

Quote:

---

EVE Online is a perfect example of what humans will do given no real consequence for their actions. It really does separate those who are genuinely "good people" from those who are just inherently scum.

---

Quote:

---

And btw, it's only ad hominem if you are using personal attacks to argue, but essentially the topic being argued is a person's character and their lack of ability to see their own true nature...so next please b/c your whole point on that is just fail ;)

---

Originally by: Jimer Lins

---

Not necessarily. It might be, or it could be for any of a myriad of reasons. I'm sure some people who work in manufacturing in real life are industrialists in EVE or perhaps CEOs in real life are corp CEOs in EVE. It's not always about doing something you're unable to do in real life (except maybe fly spaceships).

---

Quote:

---

Unsupported assertion. If you're going to make this argument, you have to support it or it's simply irrelevant. The game's rules allow and support players to take a role within that culture, including negative ones. You have not demonstrated that making such a choice has any implication for a person's true character outside the game. You have shown that you don't like people who make certain choices, but that's also irrelevant to your argument.

---

Quote:

---

Unsupported assertion, and a fallacious one (dicto simpliciter). The obvious exception (this is a game, and the rules of society don't have any application) to the example (you're breaking the rules of society in the game) is ignored.

---

Quote:

---

I'm afraid that referring to people as douchebags is, in fact, ad hominem. You have failed to demonstrate any cogent argument for your conclusion, but you persist in referring to people in pejorative terms.

---

Quote:

---

Note that I don't expect to convince you, but there are many who read and do not participate. Your incorrect (and unhealthy) perspective on the game is not uncommon, and deserves to be argued against, not because it will change YOUR mind- that is obviously impossible, as you are not arguing but trolling- but because it could bring some perspective to others reading the thread.

---

Originally by: Jimer Lins

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

No actually you are demonstrating your lack of intelligence quite well.

Not only did you affirm what I'm saying is true, you also repeated it in your own little way...

"I'm too afraid to do such and such b/c of such and such happening to me"

Released of these constraints in a video game, you will readily do those things that would bring undesirable consequences upon you irl. ;)

Unfortunately trying to debate anything about human nature with you is probably going to just make you have a nervous breakdown b/c you can't handle reading comprehension, or the fact that you only help my argument with your stupid rebuttals. ;)

---

Your ability to "debate" seems to consist of multiple fallacies, coupled with failure to address the specific counterpoints and rebuttals raised, and repeating the original (fallacious) assertions.

Among the fallacious elements in your arguments:

* Ad hominem ("douchebaggery")
* Red herring (Equating online gameplay with intoxication)
* Argumentum ad nauseum (repeating refuted fallacious arguments)
* Dicto simpliciter (Ignoring that it's allowed and encouraged to engage in negative behavior as part of the game)

At any rate, the fact is- once again- that playing the game by the rules doesn't make a person bad (or good). It just means they play the game. Taking up roles in a role-playing game is, as you would expect, the purpose of the game. One of the points of an RPG is to allow people to take on a role they would not identify with in their "real" life. It's inappropriate to use their choice of roles in a game specifically intended to allow a choice of roles to attach a pejorative connotation to them as a person outside of the game.

tl;dr- you're wrong in every way it is possible to be wrong, and you're fooling yourself if you believe you're capable of debate.

---

Originally by: FievelGoesPostal

---

Except for the fact that none of those fallacies that he has committed negate his premise.

To deny the fact that whatever role a person takes on in Eve reflects a part of themselves is ignorant and just lying to yourself.

The little saying people keep saying in this thread that goes something like "you cant differentiate between a game and real life" actually proves the opposite its intent. Basically, whats being said is , " I can get away with things in game that I cant get away with in real life" and "Because it is a video game and not real life, it doesnt reflect on myself".

People dont scam and deceive others out of isk, they don't ransom ships and then blow them up anyway, they dont steal from corps and alliances, they don't grief carebears, etc. just because thats the "rules".

They do these things because they like it. They enjoy it. They identify with it. It allows them to express an aspect of their personality in a way that has no real world consequences. All of their actions flow from themselves, and they wouldnt being doing them unless they came from their own mind.

At the end of the day, this "game" is a real life person interacting with a real life person. If I steal, lie to, deceive, or harass another Eve character, I am still doing it to a real person. To sit there and say it is immoral to do so in real life, but not over the internet is just disillusionment. Doesnt matter if it is over the phone, over a message board, via mail, or face to face, it is still person to person

---

Originally by: FievelGoesPostal

---

Except for the fact that none of those fallacies that he has committed negate his premise.

To deny the fact that whatever role a person takes on in Eve reflects a part of themselves is ignorant and just lying to yourself.

The little saying people keep saying in this thread that goes something like "you cant differentiate between a game and real life" actually proves the opposite its intent. Basically, whats being said is , " I can get away with things in game that I cant get away with in real life" and "Because it is a video game and not real life, it doesnt reflect on myself".

People dont scam and deceive others out of isk, they don't ransom ships and then blow them up anyway, they dont steal from corps and alliances, they don't grief carebears, etc. just because thats the "rules".

They do these things because they like it. They enjoy it. They identify with it. It allows them to express an aspect of their personality in a way that has no real world consequences. All of their actions flow from themselves, and they wouldnt be doing them unless they came from their own mind.

At the end of the day, this "game" is a real life person interacting with a real life person. If I steal, lie to, deceive, or harass another Eve character, I am still doing it to a real person. To sit there and say it is immoral to do so in real life, but not over the internet is just disillusionment. Doesnt matter if it is over the phone, over a message board, via mail, or face to face, it is still person to person

---

Originally by: Kitimortoa

---

...oh and btw, irl I'm a complete ass when I think I can get away with it ;) If I could gank random people on the street without consequence, you're damn right I would LOL

---

Originally by: Rheed

---

Edited by: Rheed on 14/05/2009 22:24:20

Originally by: FievelGoesPostal

---

Except for the fact that none of those fallacies that he has committed negate his premise.

To deny the fact that whatever role a person takes on in Eve reflects a part of themselves is ignorant and just lying to yourself.

The little saying people keep saying in this thread that goes something like "you cant differentiate between a game and real life" actually proves the opposite its intent. Basically, whats being said is , " I can get away with things in game that I cant get away with in real life" and "Because it is a video game and not real life, it doesnt reflect on myself".

People dont scam and deceive others out of isk, they don't ransom ships and then blow them up anyway, they dont steal from corps and alliances, they don't grief carebears, etc. just because thats the "rules".

They do these things because they like it. They enjoy it. They identify with it. It allows them to express an aspect of their personality in a way that has no real world consequences. All of their actions flow from themselves, and they wouldnt be doing them unless they came from their own mind.

At the end of the day, this "game" is a real life person interacting with a real life person. If I steal, lie to, deceive, or harass another Eve character, I am still doing it to a real person. To sit there and say it is immoral to do so in real life, but not over the internet is just disillusionment. Doesnt matter if it is over the phone, over a message board, via mail, or face to face, it is still person to person

---

Real life is not PvP though. This is a game based on PvP. Ship vs ship, Player vs player. There is no reason for me to kill anyone in real life unless my nation's leaders order me to do it.

You have to realize that there is a huge difference between killing a spaceship in a video game and killing a human being. There is a huge difference between stealing someone's salvage/loot in a video game than robbing someone's house of all their belongings. There is a huge difference between scamming someone in a video game and scamming someone out of their money in real life.

Noone gets hurt in a video game. EVER. If I steal all your money and items in a game, your family will NOT starve and you will not become homeless. If I kill you in a video game, your life will not cease to exist and your loved ones will not mourn your loss. it is completely meaningless! It is just pure fun! It is Me vs You. Attaching personal meaning to anything in ANY video game is pointless!!

The only thing you lose in a video game is time. Your frustrations and dispair over losing that time in a game is your own personal problem and I do not care about that because it has no real life affect on you whatso ever.

*edit quote fail

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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You should just shut up now, b/c you're only proving the point that's being made once again ;)

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Originally by: Rheed

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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You should just shut up now, b/c you're only proving the point that's being made once again ;)

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What is your point again? I thought it was that if I did bad things in a game, I would do bad things in real life if there was no consequence to my actions? Am I wrong? Please show me the part where I prove your point.

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Originally by: MicroWarpdrive II

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Kitimortoa, stop ****ting up a thread about me.


no one likes you, you sound like a stupid kid.

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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No my point is, you're secretly as much of a douche as you are in a video game, you're just constrained in expressing it by the rules of the culture you exist in irl.

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Originally by: Rheed

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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No my point is, you're secretly as much of a douche as you are in a video game, you're just constrained in expressing it by the rules of the culture you exist in irl.

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Ignoring the fact that is pretty much exactly what I said... You still didn't answer my question: How did I prove that again?

Also, are you afraid to post with your main? Are you afraid of the non-existant consequences of your actions in a video game?

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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it does get progressively longer.

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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Originally by: Rheed

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Ignoring the fact that is pretty much exactly what I said... You still didn't answer my question: How did I prove that again?

Also, are you afraid to post with your main? Are you afraid of the non-existant consequences of your actions in a video game?

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Aww, unfortunately you have exhausted me by trying to beat my point through your thick skull...if only words were lead pipes, maybe they might actually get through to some people...

/leaves_from_work_for_home

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Originally by: FievelGoesPostal

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Except for the fact that none of those fallacies that he has committed negate his premise.

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Quote:

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To deny the fact that whatever role a person takes on in Eve reflects a part of themselves is ignorant and just lying to yourself.

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Quote:

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The little saying people keep saying in this thread that goes something like "you cant differentiate between a game and real life" actually proves the opposite its intent. Basically, whats being said is , " I can get away with things in game that I cant get away with in real life" and "Because it is a video game and not real life, it doesnt reflect on myself".

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Quote:

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People dont scam and deceive others out of isk, they don't ransom ships and then blow them up anyway, they dont steal from corps and alliances, they don't grief carebears, etc. just because thats the "rules".

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Quote:

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They do these things because they like it. They enjoy it. They identify with it. It allows them to express an aspect of their personality in a way that has no real world consequences. All of their actions flow from themselves, and they wouldnt be doing them unless they came from their own mind.

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Quote:

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At the end of the day, this "game" is a real life person interacting with a real life person. If I steal, lie to, deceive, or harass another Eve character, I am still doing it to a real person. To sit there and say it is immoral to do so in real life, but not over the internet is just disillusionment. Doesnt matter if it is over the phone, over a message board, via mail, or face to face, it is still person to person

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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/lick

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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/snip

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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Edited by: Kitimortoa on 14/05/2009 21:22:58

Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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No actually you are demonstrating your lack of intelligence quite well.

Not only did you affirm what I'm saying is true, you also repeated it in your own little way...

"I'm too afraid to do such and such b/c of such and such happening to me"

Released of these constraints in a video game, you will readily do those things that would bring undesirable consequences upon you irl. ;)

Unfortunately trying to debate anything about human nature with you is probably going to just make you have a nervous breakdown b/c you can't handle reading comprehension, or the fact that you only help my argument with your stupid rebuttals. ;)

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Your ability to "debate" seems to consist of multiple fallacies, coupled with failure to address the specific counterpoints and rebuttals raised, and repeating the original (fallacious) assertions.

Among the fallacious elements in your arguments:

* Ad hominem ("douchebaggery")
* Red herring (Equating online gameplay with intoxication)
* Argumentum ad nauseum (repeating refuted fallacious arguments)
* Dicto simpliciter (Ignoring that it's allowed and encouraged to engage in negative behavior as part of the game)

At any rate, the fact is- once again- that playing the game by the rules doesn't make a person bad (or good). It just means they play the game. Taking up roles in a role-playing game is, as you would expect, the purpose of the game. One of the points of an RPG is to allow people to take on a role they would not identify with in their "real" life. It's inappropriate to use their choice of roles in a game specifically intended to allow a choice of roles to attach a pejorative connotation to them as a person outside of the game.

tl;dr- you're wrong in every way it is possible to be wrong, and you're fooling yourself if you believe you're capable of debate.

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That's the whole point to RP, being able to do things you can't do in one's real life.

If you are willing to participate in things unpalatable to the culture you exist within in a game, then you are living out the fantasies of what you really would do given the opportunity.

EVE Online is a perfect example of what humans will do given no real consequence for their actions. It really does separate those who are genuinely "good people" from those who are just inherently scum.

And btw, it's only ad hominem if you are using personal attacks to argue, but essentially the topic being argued is a person's character and their lack of ability to see their own true nature...so next please b/c your whole point on that is just fail ;)

You also seem to fail to understand what metaphor is.

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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Video games played have a positive correlation with one of three measures of aggression among tenth and eleventh grade boys

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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Edited by: Kitimortoa on 14/05/2009 23:18:16

Originally by: Jimer Lins

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/snip

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Video games played have a positive correlation with one of three measures of aggression among tenth and eleventh grade boys through positive reinforcment of those tendencies already present:
Dominick, J. R. (1984). Videogames, television, violence and aggression in teenagers. Journal of Communications, 34, 134-147.

Aggression as a deliberate behavior that is controlled by external reinforcements and is usually a means of reaching a desired goal in which someone is more likely to do when faced with situations of percieved lack of consequence:
Anderson, C. A., & Bushman, B. J. (2002). Human aggression. Annual Review of Psychology, 53, 27-51.

There is research pointing to exposure to antisocial behavior can be a cause of antisocial behavior in others:
Levenson, M. R., Kiehl, K. A., & Fitzpatrick, C. M. (1995). Assessing psychopathic attributes in a noninstitutionalized population. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 68, 151-158.

Have a nice day :)

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Originally by: Deq

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Originally by: Kitimortoa

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Edited by: Kitimortoa on 14/05/2009 23:18:16

Originally by: Jimer Lins

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/snip

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Video games played have a positive correlation with one of three measures of aggression among tenth and eleventh grade boys through positive reinforcment of those tendencies already present:
Dominick, J. R. (1984). Videogames, television, violence and aggression in teenagers. Journal of Communications, 34, 134-147.

Aggression as a deliberate behavior that is controlled by external reinforcements and is usually a means of reaching a desired goal in which someone is more likely to do when faced with situations of percieved lack of consequence:
Anderson, C. A., & Bushman, B. J. (2002). Human aggression. Annual Review of Psychology, 53, 27-51.

There is research pointing to exposure to antisocial behavior can be a cause of antisocial behavior in others:
Levenson, M. R., Kiehl, K. A., & Fitzpatrick, C. M. (1995). Assessing psychopathic attributes in a noninstitutionalized population. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 68, 151-158.

Have a nice day :)

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Jack Thompson's alt spotted.

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Originally by: Mya ElleTerego

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Why people keep falling for this is beyond me. I have no sympathy for them. Why you would even join them is also questionable.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: FievelGoesPostal

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You have not demonstrated that this is a fact, nor have you made an argument to that effect. If you wish to, I suggest you do so in order that your argument may be examined and accepted or rebutted. Statements of opinion as fact do not constitute arguments.

Quote:

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Its not something that I have to demonstrate that is fact. It is self evident. Peoples actions in game are a reflection of themselves, for they are the ones committing the actions. Are they not?

Quote:

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But you haven't demonstrated there's a connection between the two behaviors. You're ASSERTING one, but you have not demonstrated or provided any evidence that such a connection exists. Many people play this game and do not do bad things to other people outside the game. The weight of that behavior is against your argument.

If you wish to have someone accept the conclusion that people who play bad people in EVE are bad people outside that context, you'll have to provide something other than what's been seen so far. Your belief in something does not make it real. Provide some argument or evidence to support your assertions or retract them.

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All this logic talk and your straight off the bat with straw men arguments eh?

Did I say they were bad people, or that the roles they play reflect a part of themselves? You tell me.

Quote:

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Since it's a game, those who play the game under the rules can be assumed to be playing a game, and not acting out violent real-life fantasies. You're projecting.

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Your asserting that they are just playing a game, without demonstrating why playing a game in which you act out a personality does not reflect in any way your own personality. You are further implying that this personality that is being played out, pops out of nowhere since it does not reflect the person playing it in any way.

Quote:

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Just because a framework of a game system exists where you can take on the role of an amoral character exists does not mean you are yourself amoral, any more than Anthony Hopkins likes human liver with fava beans. Should those who play FPS games be considered serial murderers? Seems silly, but that's the logical extension of your position.

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I never said that those amoral characters are necessarily amoral in RL. Freely choosing to act out amoral actions must necessarily come the persons mind. They are planning and premeditating how to be immoral to another RL person in a game and has no similitude or connection with people who jump on a server to frag each other in a competition.

Quote:

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It also doesn't mean that a carebear in the game is a "good" person in real life. It just means that they chose a certain role within the game. And since it's a game, extrapolation of that inconsequential choice into an assessment of the person's character is not only incorrect- it's insulting.

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Agreed, just as being a bad character in-game doesnt necessarily make you a bad person in RL, neither does being a carebear. However, as my stance has been, your character tends to reflect your own real life personality, if severely restrained. You can deny this all you want, but you know its true.

Quote:

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The problem is that you're putting something into the game- your perspective about what's "right" and "wrong"- that it does not accomodate. Do you weep when your Queen is taken in Chess? Do you rage and shake your tiny fists when some bastard sinks your Battleship? Is someone who conquers the world in Risk a dictator wannabe?

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Your analogy of board games is faulty. Apples and oranges with a free style, choose your own path game. There is a huge difference between a board game with its preset conditions with people in competition, and people in Eve who get in on a personal level to steal, lie, and be malicious.

Again,my only point is that each Eve character reflects its own to a certain degree. Deny it all you want, but you and everyone else knows it.

Originally by: Azrakel Miner

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Edited by: Azrakel Miner on 15/05/2009 00:35:50
oops...clicked too fast

imo, whoever is honorable and trustworthy in game is most likely the same irl, because that implies that their conscience extends into the world of gaming. However, I believe that, given rl consequences as compared to in game and alt usage, you should not trust a person in game based on out of game experience. However, by the same logic, an ******* in game is most likely not an ******* irl, but most likely wishes he was.

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Originally by: Lana Torrin

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Originally by: Azrakel Miner

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Edited by: Azrakel Miner on 15/05/2009 00:35:50
oops...clicked too fast

imo, whoever is honorable and trustworthy in game is most likely the same irl, because that implies that their conscience extends into the world of gaming. However, I believe that, given rl consequences as compared to in game and alt usage, you should not trust a person in game based on out of game experience. However, by the same logic, an ******* in game is most likely not an ******* irl, but most likely wishes he was.

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I heard that ****** used to be a macro miner in eve before all the unpleasantness.

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Originally by: Venetian Tar

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Originally by: Lana Torrin

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Originally by: Azrakel Miner

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Edited by: Azrakel Miner on 15/05/2009 00:35:50
oops...clicked too fast

imo, whoever is honorable and trustworthy in game is most likely the same irl, because that implies that their conscience extends into the world of gaming. However, I believe that, given rl consequences as compared to in game and alt usage, you should not trust a person in game based on out of game experience. However, by the same logic, an ******* in game is most likely not an ******* irl, but most likely wishes he was.

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I heard that ****** used to be a macro miner in eve before all the unpleasantness.

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Wow, ****** is filtered?

(I had to quote.. I want to know these things!)

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Originally by: Azrakel Miner

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******* apparently is...lets see... ass hole? I know ****pit comes out wrong... (****pit) from my friend's complaints...maybe they should censor whole words and not parts...

*******?
asshat?
assumption?
assume?
asspwn?
assage?

just testing...

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Originally by: Venetian Tar

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Originally by: Lana Torrin

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Originally by: Azrakel Miner

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Edited by: Azrakel Miner on 15/05/2009 00:35:50
oops...clicked too fast

imo, whoever is honorable and trustworthy in game is most likely the same irl, because that implies that their conscience extends into the world of gaming. However, I believe that, given rl consequences as compared to in game and alt usage, you should not trust a person in game based on out of game experience. However, by the same logic, an ******* in game is most likely not an ******* irl, but most likely wishes he was.

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I heard that ****** used to be a macro miner in eve before all the unpleasantness.

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Wow, ****** is filtered?

(I had to quote.. I want to know these things!)

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Originally by: Monotune

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just wait to fanfest, find a random goon and take youre agression out on him there. Smash a beer bottle to his face or something. I want to

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Originally by: Navtiqes

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Originally by: Monotune

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just wait to fanfest, find a random goon and take youre agression out on him there. Smash a beer bottle to his face or something. I want to

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Even if it's a girl goon?

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Originally by: Navtiqes

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Originally by: Monotune

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just wait to fanfest, find a random goon and take youre agression out on him there. Smash a beer bottle to his face or something. I want to

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Even if it's a girl goon?

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Originally by: De'Veldrin

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There are no trustworthy Goons. It's as simple as that.

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Originally by: MicroWarpdrive II

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somethingawful.com

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Originally by: PaulaMyo

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HA ha HAHAhahaHAHAHAhahaha

When will you morons realsie what goons stand for eh?

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Originally by: Cado Orgo

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When I said they went from fighting the douchebaggery of BoB and ended up becoming douchebags themselves I wasn't necessarily talking about just this instance. From the way this topic has lit up with tons of hate towards them I can only surmise that they do more than just scam people out of billions. I for one have never and will never have any sort of trust or contact with them. Unless they happen upon a future gatecamp I'm apart of and they lose their ships.

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Originally by: 420HUFFDUSTEREVERYDAY

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Originally by: PaulaMyo

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HA ha HAHAhahaHAHAHAhahaha

When will you morons realsie what goons stand for eh?

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guardians of the oglala nation?

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