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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:39:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ArcticWolf on 06/09/2004 18:39:11
All of you are complaining that the tempest cant take damage like the other battleships, or deal it like the other weapon types...thats again, because you want to do everything. ANY ship that tries to solo and do everything WILL die. you cant tank and deal damage at the same time, you can have defences, but not "tank". Want to tank your tempest? mount something like: (please note these are examples and no skills/ fitting requirements have been researched)
High- something like 800mm's, or cruise launchers. (or maybe even 2 large nos)
Med- Mwd, 4 cap recharger 2
Low- 2 named armor reps, 4 hardeners. (one of each type, EM IS NEEDED FOR ANY TANK. people dont realise how much a gankageddon (which will follow my next example) is gimped due to an em hard.)
Now you want offence, like the gankageddon try something like: (remember no exact fitting numbers done, pure example)
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 2 Tracking computer 2's, 2 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
You can get with good skills a 15x damage mod, 8 second rof, and over 100km optimal with decent ammo. just make bookmarks for longer warp ins, or use a friggy friend as a warping object.
THESE SHIPS ARE FOR SMALL FLEET COMBAT. 4-5 guys on each side. With the close range tank you can warp in at close range and take a beating. Total armor points means absolutely nothing. If you can tank indefinatly, 4k armor or 6k armor doesnt matter. If you cant tank indefinatly, having 1-2k less armor than apoc wont matter in 20 more seconds. If your long range you can do an INSANE amount of damage, and if someone starts closing in, just align, turn on your MWD once, and in 10 seconds your warped. (dont have to use mwd if ur already alligned, but sitting stationary helps tracking)
Go ahead, flame me all you want, but both setups (with minor adujstments..not telling you my exact setups) work great if u know how to use them. Your just mad the tempest cant tank and gank at the same time. Well, look at the gankageddon, or the tanked apoc. they are specialized, and causing fear because theyre not rounded, they are kill or defend ships.
I checked the fittings, these setups do work
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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:39:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ArcticWolf on 06/09/2004 18:39:11
All of you are complaining that the tempest cant take damage like the other battleships, or deal it like the other weapon types...thats again, because you want to do everything. ANY ship that tries to solo and do everything WILL die. you cant tank and deal damage at the same time, you can have defences, but not "tank". Want to tank your tempest? mount something like: (please note these are examples and no skills/ fitting requirements have been researched)
High- something like 800mm's, or cruise launchers. (or maybe even 2 large nos)
Med- Mwd, 4 cap recharger 2
Low- 2 named armor reps, 4 hardeners. (one of each type, EM IS NEEDED FOR ANY TANK. people dont realise how much a gankageddon (which will follow my next example) is gimped due to an em hard.)
Now you want offence, like the gankageddon try something like: (remember no exact fitting numbers done, pure example)
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 2 Tracking computer 2's, 2 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
You can get with good skills a 15x damage mod, 8 second rof, and over 100km optimal with decent ammo. just make bookmarks for longer warp ins, or use a friggy friend as a warping object.
THESE SHIPS ARE FOR SMALL FLEET COMBAT. 4-5 guys on each side. With the close range tank you can warp in at close range and take a beating. Total armor points means absolutely nothing. If you can tank indefinatly, 4k armor or 6k armor doesnt matter. If you cant tank indefinatly, having 1-2k less armor than apoc wont matter in 20 more seconds. If your long range you can do an INSANE amount of damage, and if someone starts closing in, just align, turn on your MWD once, and in 10 seconds your warped. (dont have to use mwd if ur already alligned, but sitting stationary helps tracking)
Go ahead, flame me all you want, but both setups (with minor adujstments..not telling you my exact setups) work great if u know how to use them. Your just mad the tempest cant tank and gank at the same time. Well, look at the gankageddon, or the tanked apoc. they are specialized, and causing fear because theyre not rounded, they are kill or defend ships.
I checked the fittings, these setups do work
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:49:00 -
[3]
Give it up dude.
I got me an Apoc now and I like it 10 times better because it's so much easier in every day use.
But the funny thing is you hit the spot exactly by saying that a Tempest is ok if you have all the skill (to level 5)
For me "ok" is not enough when I specialise in a ship for over 4 months. After 4 months it should be more than just "ok"
I gave up and trained Amarr. Took me 2.5 weeks and I'm outdamaging my Tempest at any viable range. Also this Apoc can take a beating whilst being able to punch.
End.
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:49:00 -
[4]
Give it up dude.
I got me an Apoc now and I like it 10 times better because it's so much easier in every day use.
But the funny thing is you hit the spot exactly by saying that a Tempest is ok if you have all the skill (to level 5)
For me "ok" is not enough when I specialise in a ship for over 4 months. After 4 months it should be more than just "ok"
I gave up and trained Amarr. Took me 2.5 weeks and I'm outdamaging my Tempest at any viable range. Also this Apoc can take a beating whilst being able to punch.
End.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:51:00 -
[5]
the problem is the tempest cant do anything as well as the other ships. using projectiles it cannot do more damage than an equivalent dmg dealer using hybrids or lasers due to projectile crapinesss.
it cant tank as well as the other ships due to the cap relay nerf primarily and slot config affecting its ability to shield and armour tank.
Basically, atm between the projectile crapness and cap relay nerf, there are better ships out there. Sure the tempest is not useless, its just not as good as the rest anymore.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:51:00 -
[6]
the problem is the tempest cant do anything as well as the other ships. using projectiles it cannot do more damage than an equivalent dmg dealer using hybrids or lasers due to projectile crapinesss.
it cant tank as well as the other ships due to the cap relay nerf primarily and slot config affecting its ability to shield and armour tank.
Basically, atm between the projectile crapness and cap relay nerf, there are better ships out there. Sure the tempest is not useless, its just not as good as the rest anymore.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:52:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: ArcticWolf
[...]
(please note these are examples and no skills/ fitting requirements have been researched)
[...]
(remember no exact fitting numbers done, pure example)
[...]
I think these two quote sum up the entire post.
Some of us have done the research, some of us have figured the requirements, and frankly some of us don't feel like spending 10m skill points to do what one can do with 3m skill points in a different ship.
Harry Voyager
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.09.06 15:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
[...]
(please note these are examples and no skills/ fitting requirements have been researched)
[...]
(remember no exact fitting numbers done, pure example)
[...]
I think these two quote sum up the entire post.
Some of us have done the research, some of us have figured the requirements, and frankly some of us don't feel like spending 10m skill points to do what one can do with 3m skill points in a different ship.
Harry Voyager
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FZappa
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Posted - 2004.09.06 16:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 3 Tracking computer 2's, 3 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
i seem to remember pests have less then 7 med slots..
now , with max fitting skills , and 1 RCU 2 , you cant fit
6 1400mm AND 2 cruise launchers . i think you run out of
grid before the 2nd cruise launcher .
btw , did you play planetarion with the same nick ?
-------------------------
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FZappa
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Posted - 2004.09.06 16:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 3 Tracking computer 2's, 3 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
i seem to remember pests have less then 7 med slots..
now , with max fitting skills , and 1 RCU 2 , you cant fit
6 1400mm AND 2 cruise launchers . i think you run out of
grid before the 2nd cruise launcher .
btw , did you play planetarion with the same nick ?
-------------------------
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ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.09.06 16:50:00 -
[11]
Werent you posting about increasing tempest power grid few days ago.
----------------------
I wanna tuc tuc .. |
ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.09.06 16:50:00 -
[12]
Werent you posting about increasing tempest power grid few days ago.
----------------------
I wanna tuc tuc .. |
Bohr
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Posted - 2004.09.06 17:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: FZappa
Originally by: ArcticWolf
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 3 Tracking computer 2's, 3 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
i seem to remember pests have less then 7 med slots..
now , with max fitting skills , and 1 RCU 2 , you cant fit
6 1400mm AND 2 cruise launchers . i think you run out of
grid before the 2nd cruise launcher .
btw , did you play planetarion with the same nick ?
Exactly. It is also the only ship needing to sacrifice 2 lowslots to make it's intended setup. Has the most power needing guns and the second lowest powergrid :(
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Bohr
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Posted - 2004.09.06 17:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: FZappa
Originally by: ArcticWolf
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 3 Tracking computer 2's, 3 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
i seem to remember pests have less then 7 med slots..
now , with max fitting skills , and 1 RCU 2 , you cant fit
6 1400mm AND 2 cruise launchers . i think you run out of
grid before the 2nd cruise launcher .
btw , did you play planetarion with the same nick ?
Exactly. It is also the only ship needing to sacrifice 2 lowslots to make it's intended setup. Has the most power needing guns and the second lowest powergrid :(
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.09.06 19:25:00 -
[15]
Just increase the projectile turrets' optimal range by x1,5 and long range ammo damage a *bit*.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.09.06 19:25:00 -
[16]
Just increase the projectile turrets' optimal range by x1,5 and long range ammo damage a *bit*.
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Meatead
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:21:00 -
[17]
I have openly stated a number of times that I dont want to see other ships nerfed....but....I have fitted 6x800protos been at 14km (a sweet spot for 800s) and fired various ammos at an apoc and CAN NOT damage it to any big degree...the apoc can laugh off my damage - and if Im not armor tanking destroy me very quickly. He can tank all my damage AND fire his own weapons indefinitely...where I will run out of cap and ammo before he is even breaking a sweat...
The 800mm is not comparable to the mega pulse in any way, shape or form in their current states.
Armor tanking is far superior to shield tanking atm due to the imbalance of being able to run 2large armor reps indefinitely - something that is completely impossible in a shield tanking setup.
Tempest with similar skilled pilot to any other tier2 bs and equivalent setups will lose at least 90% of the time. It loses on damage, on tanking, on cap, on gun capacity, on fittings, on turrets, on range..on everything 
What most people fail to see is that the damage mods on minmater bs is there at the highest levels (5turret/5bs) to still be under the dot of the other BS. This means that you can fit laser/hybrids to a tempest and do more damage - but then whats the point of projectile? and remember that minmater bs can only fit 4 and 6 turrets respectively....so what are the bonus of projectile? no cap use? rubbish - it does use cap..ok not very much - but then it doesnt get cap bonus per bs level...it doesnt get the use of controlled burst (or not to any marginal degree) ok...how about the ability to do damage of all types? ....bleh - everyone is armor tanking and has equal resistances - the new ships will all have very high resistances....and its not as if its like missile where you select kinetic damage...the ammos damage is split into different types.
I can really understand people not wanting to see nerfs to ships that are currently in favour but atm there is really no reason/advantage to specialising in minmater bs - or to projectiles because compared with the other bs/gun types they are found lacking.
To people that say there is nothing wrong with tempest - open your eyes...even t1 bs of some races are better.
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Meatead
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:21:00 -
[18]
I have openly stated a number of times that I dont want to see other ships nerfed....but....I have fitted 6x800protos been at 14km (a sweet spot for 800s) and fired various ammos at an apoc and CAN NOT damage it to any big degree...the apoc can laugh off my damage - and if Im not armor tanking destroy me very quickly. He can tank all my damage AND fire his own weapons indefinitely...where I will run out of cap and ammo before he is even breaking a sweat...
The 800mm is not comparable to the mega pulse in any way, shape or form in their current states.
Armor tanking is far superior to shield tanking atm due to the imbalance of being able to run 2large armor reps indefinitely - something that is completely impossible in a shield tanking setup.
Tempest with similar skilled pilot to any other tier2 bs and equivalent setups will lose at least 90% of the time. It loses on damage, on tanking, on cap, on gun capacity, on fittings, on turrets, on range..on everything
What most people fail to see is that the damage mods on minmater bs is there at the highest levels (5turret/5bs) to still be under the dot of the other BS. This means that you can fit laser/hybrids to a tempest and do more damage - but then whats the point of projectile? and remember that minmater bs can only fit 4 and 6 turrets respectively....so what are the bonus of projectile? no cap use? rubbish - it does use cap..ok not very much - but then it doesnt get cap bonus per bs level...it doesnt get the use of controlled burst (or not to any marginal degree) ok...how about the ability to do damage of all types? ....bleh - everyone is armor tanking and has equal resistances - the new ships will all have very high resistances....and its not as if its like missile where you select kinetic damage...the ammos damage is split into different types.
I can really understand people not wanting to see nerfs to ships that are currently in favour but atm there is really no reason/advantage to specialising in minmater bs - or to projectiles because compared with the other bs/gun types they are found lacking.
To people that say there is nothing wrong with tempest - open your eyes...even t1 bs of some races are better.
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:37:00 -
[19]
it should tell you something that everyone (well, 90% anyway...) compares the tempest to the apoc when saying its not good enough. but basically, any bs you compare to the apoc and geddon will do poorly, just because of hte amarrians insanely huge powergrid and cap... i dont know why they made the apoc even better lately - it was after all pretty much the best bs in the game - and i hope at some point the devs realise what theyve done... force all the minmater to use apocs :(
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:37:00 -
[20]
it should tell you something that everyone (well, 90% anyway...) compares the tempest to the apoc when saying its not good enough. but basically, any bs you compare to the apoc and geddon will do poorly, just because of hte amarrians insanely huge powergrid and cap... i dont know why they made the apoc even better lately - it was after all pretty much the best bs in the game - and i hope at some point the devs realise what theyve done... force all the minmater to use apocs :(
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:42:00 -
[21]
Edited by: ActiveX on 06/09/2004 20:50:23
Stupid forum...
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: ActiveX on 06/09/2004 20:50:23
Stupid forum...
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bohr
Originally by: FZappa
Originally by: ArcticWolf
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 3 Tracking computer 2's, 3 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
i seem to remember pests have less then 7 med slots..
now , with max fitting skills , and 1 RCU 2 , you cant fit
6 1400mm AND 2 cruise launchers . i think you run out of
grid before the 2nd cruise launcher .
btw , did you play planetarion with the same nick ?
Exactly. It is also the only ship needing to sacrifice 2 lowslots to make it's intended setup. Has the most power needing guns and the second lowest powergrid :(
Only BS*
But then again...what is it's intended setup?
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.09.06 20:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bohr
Originally by: FZappa
Originally by: ArcticWolf
High- 6x 1400mm's 2 cruise launchers
Med- 3 Tracking computer 2's, 3 sensor boosters, mwd
Low- 1 reactor control 2, 5 gyro 2's (may need to change a gyro for another reactor or pdu)
i seem to remember pests have less then 7 med slots..
now , with max fitting skills , and 1 RCU 2 , you cant fit
6 1400mm AND 2 cruise launchers . i think you run out of
grid before the 2nd cruise launcher .
btw , did you play planetarion with the same nick ?
Exactly. It is also the only ship needing to sacrifice 2 lowslots to make it's intended setup. Has the most power needing guns and the second lowest powergrid :(
Only BS*
But then again...what is it's intended setup?
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.09.06 21:07:00 -
[25]
Yep, I agree you're a problem, ArcticWolf
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.09.06 21:07:00 -
[26]
Yep, I agree you're a problem, ArcticWolf
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Psychopath
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Posted - 2004.09.06 21:21:00 -
[27]
ArticWolf is completely right.
The reason why people disagree is because they are ignorant and blind. They also cannot try their own setups.
Psychopath out
A Corp 1 pirate I was meant to be, trim the sails and roam the sea |
Psychopath
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Posted - 2004.09.06 21:21:00 -
[28]
ArticWolf is completely right.
The reason why people disagree is because they are ignorant and blind. They also cannot try their own setups.
Psychopath out
A Corp 1 pirate I was meant to be, trim the sails and roam the sea |
Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.06 22:27:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Selim on 06/09/2004 22:28:26
The projectile benefits and such dont matter on a minmatar ship. They move faster so tracking is harder unless you really watch where you're going, which you dont have to do with the other races. Even with 2 damage bonuses they cant outdamage any other turret. They still use 3 cap, enough so that you cant fire when you have 0 cap. The fact they use little cap is offset by the pitiful capacitors of minmatar ships. You will track a minmatar battleship easily even though they are supposedly 'hard' to track. They have the least defenses of all battleships, speed not playing near as much of a role as it would on a frigate. Projectiles do crap damage AND track bad. These 2 facts will always make a poor gun.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.06 22:27:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Selim on 06/09/2004 22:28:26
The projectile benefits and such dont matter on a minmatar ship. They move faster so tracking is harder unless you really watch where you're going, which you dont have to do with the other races. Even with 2 damage bonuses they cant outdamage any other turret. They still use 3 cap, enough so that you cant fire when you have 0 cap. The fact they use little cap is offset by the pitiful capacitors of minmatar ships. You will track a minmatar battleship easily even though they are supposedly 'hard' to track. They have the least defenses of all battleships, speed not playing near as much of a role as it would on a frigate. Projectiles do crap damage AND track bad. These 2 facts will always make a poor gun.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.09.06 23:14:00 -
[31]
I tested the DOT of long range guns. Target was a Giant secure container each time. Each time 2 km within the optimal range of each gun!
The ships were not moving at all. (Transversal velocity 0 m/s)
The following test shows HOW BAD the 1400mm howitzer's DOT is EVEN WITHOUT the need of tracking!
First test 425mm Railgun I
Skills:
Large hybrid turret lv 4
Gallente BS lv 4
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway lol)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
27,02 dmg/sec
Second test Tachyon Laser I
Skills:
Large energy turret lv 3
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
26,86 dmg/sec
Third test 1400mm howitzer I
Skills:
Large projectile turret lv 5
Minmatar BS lv 5
surgical strike lv 5
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Tempest
Results:
77 shots fired
23,77 dmg/sec
Each test was done on chaos! Since I cant fly minmatar ships myself I found a willing person to help me testing the 1400mm. His name is EA NightShade and he HAS MAXED OUT SKILLS ON CHAOS!!!
The fact that you will have a chance of 1 % to do wrecking hits hurts the long range projectile users the most! Due to their really bad ROF. Even more will a 1400mm suffer WAY MORE FROM misses than any other gun due to its HIGH ROF again. On top of that it has the WORST TRACKING of all guns and on top of that it has the WORST AMMO eg. large emp = 44 dmg whereas the antimatter ammo has 48 as well as the multi frequency. ON TOP OF THAT the projectile gun needs 2 BONUSES FOR THEIR DOT TO GET at least a bit usefull (eg. meathron has a better dot with rails PLUS it gets a tracking bonus!!) AND ON TOP OF THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE MAXED OUT SKILLS IN GUNNERY AND LV 5 MINMATAR BS TO GET THE DOT OF A TACHYON WITH LV 2 IN LARGE ENERGY TURRET AND LV 4 SURGICAL STRIKE !!!! ON TOP OF THAT THE TEMPEST GETS THIS BONUS FOR "ONLY" 6 OF ITS HIGH SLOTS (while it cant even fit them easily, most of the times only 5x 1400mm!!!) ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS TO RELOAD WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER GUN!!!!
Only "advantage" it uses nearly no cap but the tempest has also the worst cap!!!! And it can switch its dmg BUT most tanks are equally tanked in all 4 resistance types. And even more you cant switch to ONE SPECIFIC dmg type so its a really a moot point to see it as an advantage and moreover you will never figure out which is the lowest resistance of a target like with missile SINCE YOU CANT SWITCH TO ONE SPECIFIC DMG TYPE and besides that you will do LESS DOT most of the times since you have to reload all the times ...
So you see the 1400mm howitzer has some SERIOUS DRAWBACKS
I think ONE 1400mm howitzer I on a tempest SHOULD DO THE SAME DOT AS ONE Tachyon Laser I on an ARMAGEDDON
If that happens we will have the following:
Armageddon and tempest will be the 2 ships with the highest possible long range guns (although its unlikly that an arma will use tachs) The Megathron or Dominix with one 425mm rail will still be quite powerfull and will do slightly more dot as an apoc with one tach. The Typhoon with 1400mm will do nearly the same dmg as an apoc with tachs BUT it can fit only a maximum of 4 1400mm while the apoc could fit 8 tachs!!!
So in this case a tempest pilot will actually be a dmg dealer like the armageddon. Currently the tempest (with maxed skills) gives the 1400mm just enuf "bonus" to keep up with a bad skilled large long range laser user ...
On a side note: Pulse lasers are overpowered, Blasters work as intended and Autocannons do their job.
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.09.06 23:14:00 -
[32]
I tested the DOT of long range guns. Target was a Giant secure container each time. Each time 2 km within the optimal range of each gun!
The ships were not moving at all. (Transversal velocity 0 m/s)
The following test shows HOW BAD the 1400mm howitzer's DOT is EVEN WITHOUT the need of tracking!
First test 425mm Railgun I
Skills:
Large hybrid turret lv 4
Gallente BS lv 4
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway lol)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
27,02 dmg/sec
Second test Tachyon Laser I
Skills:
Large energy turret lv 3
surgical strike lv 4
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Megathron
Results:
194 shots fired
26,86 dmg/sec
Third test 1400mm howitzer I
Skills:
Large projectile turret lv 5
Minmatar BS lv 5
surgical strike lv 5
Gunnery lv 5 (needed anyway)
Ship: Tempest
Results:
77 shots fired
23,77 dmg/sec
Each test was done on chaos! Since I cant fly minmatar ships myself I found a willing person to help me testing the 1400mm. His name is EA NightShade and he HAS MAXED OUT SKILLS ON CHAOS!!!
The fact that you will have a chance of 1 % to do wrecking hits hurts the long range projectile users the most! Due to their really bad ROF. Even more will a 1400mm suffer WAY MORE FROM misses than any other gun due to its HIGH ROF again. On top of that it has the WORST TRACKING of all guns and on top of that it has the WORST AMMO eg. large emp = 44 dmg whereas the antimatter ammo has 48 as well as the multi frequency. ON TOP OF THAT the projectile gun needs 2 BONUSES FOR THEIR DOT TO GET at least a bit usefull (eg. meathron has a better dot with rails PLUS it gets a tracking bonus!!) AND ON TOP OF THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE MAXED OUT SKILLS IN GUNNERY AND LV 5 MINMATAR BS TO GET THE DOT OF A TACHYON WITH LV 2 IN LARGE ENERGY TURRET AND LV 4 SURGICAL STRIKE !!!! ON TOP OF THAT THE TEMPEST GETS THIS BONUS FOR "ONLY" 6 OF ITS HIGH SLOTS (while it cant even fit them easily, most of the times only 5x 1400mm!!!) ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS TO RELOAD WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER GUN!!!!
Only "advantage" it uses nearly no cap but the tempest has also the worst cap!!!! And it can switch its dmg BUT most tanks are equally tanked in all 4 resistance types. And even more you cant switch to ONE SPECIFIC dmg type so its a really a moot point to see it as an advantage and moreover you will never figure out which is the lowest resistance of a target like with missile SINCE YOU CANT SWITCH TO ONE SPECIFIC DMG TYPE and besides that you will do LESS DOT most of the times since you have to reload all the times ...
So you see the 1400mm howitzer has some SERIOUS DRAWBACKS
I think ONE 1400mm howitzer I on a tempest SHOULD DO THE SAME DOT AS ONE Tachyon Laser I on an ARMAGEDDON
If that happens we will have the following:
Armageddon and tempest will be the 2 ships with the highest possible long range guns (although its unlikly that an arma will use tachs) The Megathron or Dominix with one 425mm rail will still be quite powerfull and will do slightly more dot as an apoc with one tach. The Typhoon with 1400mm will do nearly the same dmg as an apoc with tachs BUT it can fit only a maximum of 4 1400mm while the apoc could fit 8 tachs!!!
So in this case a tempest pilot will actually be a dmg dealer like the armageddon. Currently the tempest (with maxed skills) gives the 1400mm just enuf "bonus" to keep up with a bad skilled large long range laser user ...
On a side note: Pulse lasers are overpowered, Blasters work as intended and Autocannons do their job.
Greetings Grim |
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 00:40:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Selim on 07/09/2004 00:42:31
Totally agree with ya Grim.
Thats not even to mention that Railguns can get higher range than projectiles with the long range ammo!  Thats even including falloff.
|
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 00:40:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Selim on 07/09/2004 00:42:31
Totally agree with ya Grim.
Thats not even to mention that Railguns can get higher range than projectiles with the long range ammo! Thats even including falloff.
|
Davey Stomper
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 01:36:00 -
[35]
Always people whine about the tempest being so useless, wah this, boo hoo that....You ppl sadly fail to see the big picture about the tempest and just immediately without even thinking it through you jump on the "tempest isn't good" bandwagon and start screaming with caps on forums. |
Davey Stomper
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 01:36:00 -
[36]
Always people whine about the tempest being so useless, wah this, boo hoo that....You ppl sadly fail to see the big picture about the tempest and just immediately without even thinking it through you jump on the "tempest isn't good" bandwagon and start screaming with caps on forums. |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 01:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Davey Stomper
Always people whine about the tempest being so useless, wah this, boo hoo that....You ppl sadly fail to see the big picture about the tempest and just immediately without even thinking it through you jump on the "tempest isn't good" bandwagon and start screaming with caps on forums.
please enlighten me as my nigh on a year of flying the tempest seemingly as taught me nothing on its abilities and how to equip it other than in recent months my phoon is a better ship than it and almost every other bs is better than it. Its at the bottom of the tier 2 bs, its below half of the teir 1's tbh.
The tempest itself is fine, projectile crapiness and cap relay nerf make it crud. Aside form the possibility of perhaps 20 more cpu i sometimes feel.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 01:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Davey Stomper
Always people whine about the tempest being so useless, wah this, boo hoo that....You ppl sadly fail to see the big picture about the tempest and just immediately without even thinking it through you jump on the "tempest isn't good" bandwagon and start screaming with caps on forums.
please enlighten me as my nigh on a year of flying the tempest seemingly as taught me nothing on its abilities and how to equip it other than in recent months my phoon is a better ship than it and almost every other bs is better than it. Its at the bottom of the tier 2 bs, its below half of the teir 1's tbh.
The tempest itself is fine, projectile crapiness and cap relay nerf make it crud. Aside form the possibility of perhaps 20 more cpu i sometimes feel.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
ArcticWolf
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 02:44:00 -
[39]
The 1400mms have bad tracking, blah blah blah, poor DoT, but the ship is still usefull. at over 100km, the further out you go, the less tracking you need. if your stationary and a ceptor is orbiting you at 4km/s at 150km range, you WILL hit it. dont beleive me, test it. doesnt take very long to kill a frig even if 1 of your hits every volly hits him. so long range tracking doest matter. now with tachyons, they are cap heavy and due to amarr ships, like the apoc, 4 med slots, limits is guns to a smaller range than the tempest with 5. Now the megathron, sure 425mms are good, but recently, intented or not, everyone has been saying their optimal range has been decreased, if this is true, then good, that makes the 1400s usefull, youll be able to get longer ranges with the 1400s then. if u go in with a few closer range friends, with your long range supuriority over 425mms (if they indeed have a lower opt) and tachyons, then youll be very safe from damage from these turrets, and at such a long range, missiles or anything wont come near you. the reeeally long range setup works great with little risk to you. toss in 2 close range megathrons as friends and ull be good off. now ccp just needs to add maybe just 5km optimal and a 100km warp in...
|
ArcticWolf
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 02:44:00 -
[40]
The 1400mms have bad tracking, blah blah blah, poor DoT, but the ship is still usefull. at over 100km, the further out you go, the less tracking you need. if your stationary and a ceptor is orbiting you at 4km/s at 150km range, you WILL hit it. dont beleive me, test it. doesnt take very long to kill a frig even if 1 of your hits every volly hits him. so long range tracking doest matter. now with tachyons, they are cap heavy and due to amarr ships, like the apoc, 4 med slots, limits is guns to a smaller range than the tempest with 5. Now the megathron, sure 425mms are good, but recently, intented or not, everyone has been saying their optimal range has been decreased, if this is true, then good, that makes the 1400s usefull, youll be able to get longer ranges with the 1400s then. if u go in with a few closer range friends, with your long range supuriority over 425mms (if they indeed have a lower opt) and tachyons, then youll be very safe from damage from these turrets, and at such a long range, missiles or anything wont come near you. the reeeally long range setup works great with little risk to you. toss in 2 close range megathrons as friends and ull be good off. now ccp just needs to add maybe just 5km optimal and a 100km warp in...
|
ErrorS
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 02:55:00 -
[41]
Yea.. the whole world is wrong and the Tempest is the best ship in the game.
BLAME THE USERS!
rediculous.. just shows there is a problem
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ErrorS
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 02:55:00 -
[42]
Yea.. the whole world is wrong and the Tempest is the best ship in the game.
BLAME THE USERS!
rediculous.. just shows there is a problem
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 03:00:00 -
[43]
When the hell will a ceptor orbit at 150 km...
Theories are fine, but practical application is what is important.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 03:00:00 -
[44]
When the hell will a ceptor orbit at 150 km...
Theories are fine, but practical application is what is important.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 05:35:00 -
[45]
Originally by: ActiveX
When the hell will a ceptor orbit at 150 km...
Theories are fine, but practical application is what is important.
Yes and the practical application of a 1400mm is? 1400mms get into their own at 40km+ And the further out the better, for the 1400 that is. If you intend to fight closer then that, go with 1200, and drop grid enhancers for damage mods. Afraid the original point stands, it's the pilots. Ofcourse you know something about a tempest, but things changed, and a Tempest is still the best at what most people say on here it should be the best at, long range. Straight up damage comparisons are fine and all. But a 1400 with EMP has it's sweetspot far further out then a rail with anti for isntance. Just have to stop looking at that stat window for a while, and at that log and forget what you think. Pretend to be a n00b and figure out the tempest again, you might be suprised. Just stop hitting cans at 30km and going omfg I do less damage then that other guy.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 05:35:00 -
[46]
Originally by: ActiveX
When the hell will a ceptor orbit at 150 km...
Theories are fine, but practical application is what is important.
Yes and the practical application of a 1400mm is? 1400mms get into their own at 40km+ And the further out the better, for the 1400 that is. If you intend to fight closer then that, go with 1200, and drop grid enhancers for damage mods. Afraid the original point stands, it's the pilots. Ofcourse you know something about a tempest, but things changed, and a Tempest is still the best at what most people say on here it should be the best at, long range. Straight up damage comparisons are fine and all. But a 1400 with EMP has it's sweetspot far further out then a rail with anti for isntance. Just have to stop looking at that stat window for a while, and at that log and forget what you think. Pretend to be a n00b and figure out the tempest again, you might be suprised. Just stop hitting cans at 30km and going omfg I do less damage then that other guy.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Arleonenis
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 06:56:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Arleonenis on 07/09/2004 06:58:44
I have almost all tempest/projectile related skills at lvl5 and tempest isnt ok, its far away from ok, and yes i use scaner and transversal velocity.
And noobie noobie, try to fight 2, 3 npc long range battleships with escort without any tank... you will eat dust in no time, and 5 gyros and 2 tracking comps to do damage that could be overcome by most other bss with almost no skills and mods? RIIIGHT tempest is good, but for recycling IMHO
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Arleonenis
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 06:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Arleonenis on 07/09/2004 06:58:44
I have almost all tempest/projectile related skills at lvl5 and tempest isnt ok, its far away from ok, and yes i use scaner and transversal velocity.
And noobie noobie, try to fight 2, 3 npc long range battleships with escort without any tank... you will eat dust in no time, and 5 gyros and 2 tracking comps to do damage that could be overcome by most other bss with almost no skills and mods? RIIIGHT tempest is good, but for recycling IMHO
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Acheman
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 07:03:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Acheman on 07/09/2004 07:41:23
It is nice to see actual numbers to support the argument the Tempest is the worst tier 2 Battleship. I believe it from the overwhelming evidence and 100's of posts.
I also doubt those blaming the pilots actually fly Tempests, when given the choice. They also have no data to support their argument, just rhetoric. They are afraid their own battleship of choice will no longer be the uber BS of Eve. The original post should be titled "Minority Report on Tempest" because it states the opinions of a very small minority of players.
Perfect balancing will never happen, but the Tempest needs coding help to become competitive. The Tempest pilots and the more numerous ex-pilots have already proven the point.
Acheman
|
Acheman
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 07:03:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Acheman on 07/09/2004 07:41:23
It is nice to see actual numbers to support the argument the Tempest is the worst tier 2 Battleship. I believe it from the overwhelming evidence and 100's of posts.
I also doubt those blaming the pilots actually fly Tempests, when given the choice. They also have no data to support their argument, just rhetoric. They are afraid their own battleship of choice will no longer be the uber BS of Eve. The original post should be titled "Minority Report on Tempest" because it states the opinions of a very small minority of players.
Perfect balancing will never happen, but the Tempest needs coding help to become competitive. The Tempest pilots and the more numerous ex-pilots have already proven the point.
Acheman
|
Arleonenis
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 07:41:00 -
[51]
ok this is numbers:
For example of how minmatar bss "works":
weapon: 1400mm
target: npc bs
transversal velocity: <20
range: 35km
ammo: emp
optimal range: 34km
misses: 1/3 shots missed
average damage per shot: 100
same with 80km optimal range ammo and bs at 75km
Skills:
minmatar bs lvl5
projectile lvl4
motion prediction lvl5
surgical strike lvl4
Mods:
tracking comp 2
trackin enhancer 2
2 gyrostabilizers 2
|
Arleonenis
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 07:41:00 -
[52]
ok this is numbers:
For example of how minmatar bss "works":
weapon: 1400mm
target: npc bs
transversal velocity: <20
range: 35km
ammo: emp
optimal range: 34km
misses: 1/3 shots missed
average damage per shot: 100
same with 80km optimal range ammo and bs at 75km
Skills:
minmatar bs lvl5
projectile lvl4
motion prediction lvl5
surgical strike lvl4
Mods:
tracking comp 2
trackin enhancer 2
2 gyrostabilizers 2
|
Meatead
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 07:47:00 -
[53]
what makes me laugh is the people that dont fly minmater ships saying there isnt a problem.
This is an evolving game, one that has had many 'tweaks' recently...should the players that spend a year + specialising in a certain ship type just roll over and move to another ship type just to remain competitive?
An mmo by its nature relies on its customers for feedback, what the majority of people are doing by bringing their comments to these forums is trying to enlighten the devs that somethings were overcooked/not balanced/bugged and to share their experiences with others.
With new tier2 turrets in game and the additional months of training time dont you think its fair that people who are unhappy with the performance of projectile speak now before they have large turret specialisation5 trained.
It took us months and dozens of posts (hundreds of players)just to get a dev comment on this.....and they currently agree with the main bulk of people.
So lets see, the majority of minmater bs pilots, and the devs are wrong and articwolf is right? rofl...go back under your bridge.
|
Meatead
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 07:47:00 -
[54]
what makes me laugh is the people that dont fly minmater ships saying there isnt a problem.
This is an evolving game, one that has had many 'tweaks' recently...should the players that spend a year + specialising in a certain ship type just roll over and move to another ship type just to remain competitive?
An mmo by its nature relies on its customers for feedback, what the majority of people are doing by bringing their comments to these forums is trying to enlighten the devs that somethings were overcooked/not balanced/bugged and to share their experiences with others.
With new tier2 turrets in game and the additional months of training time dont you think its fair that people who are unhappy with the performance of projectile speak now before they have large turret specialisation5 trained.
It took us months and dozens of posts (hundreds of players)just to get a dev comment on this.....and they currently agree with the main bulk of people.
So lets see, the majority of minmater bs pilots, and the devs are wrong and articwolf is right? rofl...go back under your bridge.
|
Fedaykin Naib
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 08:19:00 -
[55]
FIX MY TEMPEST!
"Long Live the Fighters!"
"The weak come and go with time. The strong have remained" - v ger
|
Fedaykin Naib
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 08:19:00 -
[56]
FIX MY TEMPEST!
"Long Live the Fighters!"
"The weak come and go with time. The strong have remained" - v ger
|
FZappa
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 08:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
The 1400mms have bad tracking, blah blah blah, poor DoT, but the ship is still usefull. at over 100km,
they nerfed trackers , its very hard to snipe now .
imho the trackers nerf was the last nail in the 1400's coffin.
might work on a phoon , but then your damage will be much lower
then the tempest can deal atm (which isnt much)
-------------------------
|
FZappa
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 08:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
The 1400mms have bad tracking, blah blah blah, poor DoT, but the ship is still usefull. at over 100km,
they nerfed trackers , its very hard to snipe now .
imho the trackers nerf was the last nail in the 1400's coffin.
might work on a phoon , but then your damage will be much lower
then the tempest can deal atm (which isnt much)
-------------------------
|
Artegg
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 09:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
The 1400mms have bad tracking, blah blah blah, poor DoT, but the ship is still usefull. at over 100km,
Arctic this is all very well when you can warp in at 100kms but atm you cant.
This is all very well when you are not jumping in to a system and landing smack in the middle of a camp.
Saying things like i can hit a ceptor at 140kms when it orbits me is just a bit dumb if you ask me how many time on TQ have you seen this happen?
|
Artegg
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 09:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
The 1400mms have bad tracking, blah blah blah, poor DoT, but the ship is still usefull. at over 100km,
Arctic this is all very well when you can warp in at 100kms but atm you cant.
This is all very well when you are not jumping in to a system and landing smack in the middle of a camp.
Saying things like i can hit a ceptor at 140kms when it orbits me is just a bit dumb if you ask me how many time on TQ have you seen this happen?
|
THE CHOSEN1
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 09:46:00 -
[61]
artic please never post again, u are just showing how noob u really are.
the best pvpers in the game dont even use a tempest anymore. And u are saying they are too noob to fit their ship right ? Get a clue man ... u clearly dont pvp in a tempest and have no knowledge of the real situation.
Those setups can work in a controlled environment, but in pvp u will get owned so hard its not even funny.
Btw isnt rome trialing for CA ? if thats the case im gonna pod u even though u are in the same alliance, watch your back arctic :P
|
THE CHOSEN1
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 09:46:00 -
[62]
artic please never post again, u are just showing how noob u really are.
the best pvpers in the game dont even use a tempest anymore. And u are saying they are too noob to fit their ship right ? Get a clue man ... u clearly dont pvp in a tempest and have no knowledge of the real situation.
Those setups can work in a controlled environment, but in pvp u will get owned so hard its not even funny.
Btw isnt rome trialing for CA ? if thats the case im gonna pod u even though u are in the same alliance, watch your back arctic :P
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darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 10:13:00 -
[63]
Ok ok ok ok.... the Tempest isnt a BAD ship, but PRJ ARE...
i want to be able to use my tempest and fit mostly PRJ guns.. i have a great setup for my ship, BUT it hardly even uses large prj..
we have tested, and your just not gonna do enough damage with say, 800s.. this is with large prj lvl 5, minnie BS lvl 5, and ALL other gunnery at lvl 5 ... this is the best it gets, i wont be able to hit harder than i do the now, its wrong that even with my skills maxed out, i still find it useless to use mostly PRJ guns on my tempest..
now end these posts, PRJ guns are crap... we all know this, they have been tested with the higher skilled players, and they have confirmed it..
if say u guys spent 5-6million on gunnery, and trained large laser and Amar BS to lvl 5, would u be annoyed that u couldnt afford to use large lasers on ur Apoc, cause they were crap?.
d solo.
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darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 10:13:00 -
[64]
Ok ok ok ok.... the Tempest isnt a BAD ship, but PRJ ARE...
i want to be able to use my tempest and fit mostly PRJ guns.. i have a great setup for my ship, BUT it hardly even uses large prj..
we have tested, and your just not gonna do enough damage with say, 800s.. this is with large prj lvl 5, minnie BS lvl 5, and ALL other gunnery at lvl 5... this is the best it gets, i wont be able to hit harder than i do the now, its wrong that even with my skills maxed out, i still find it useless to use mostly PRJ guns on my tempest..
now end these posts, PRJ guns are crap... we all know this, they have been tested with the higher skilled players, and they have confirmed it..
if say u guys spent 5-6million on gunnery, and trained large laser and Amar BS to lvl 5, would u be annoyed that u couldnt afford to use large lasers on ur Apoc, cause they were crap?.
d solo.
|
Xtra Bitter
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 10:15:00 -
[65]
Well i just built and used my first Armageddon fitted 7 mega pulse with radio and trundled out the hanger to test it on an agent mission Gone Berserk.
Having flown a temp for some 8 months i was to say the least astonished.
Warp in at 60km as i would have with the temp and had the mission finished in a little over 2 minutes. Admittedly the cap did run dry but then again i only have Amar BS 2 and Large Energy 2 and with flying a Temp controlled Bursts was never on my list of priorites.
Comparing this with a 1400mm is a non starter in order to keep the NPC atan optimal range i would have to warp in and out 2-3 times.
With the 800's to 425's it would be a case of not hitting a frig NPC ever and using drones to do the mission.
Anyone who thinks this is the result of the pilot not knowing what there doing needs a serious rethink.
|
Xtra Bitter
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 10:15:00 -
[66]
Well i just built and used my first Armageddon fitted 7 mega pulse with radio and trundled out the hanger to test it on an agent mission Gone Berserk.
Having flown a temp for some 8 months i was to say the least astonished.
Warp in at 60km as i would have with the temp and had the mission finished in a little over 2 minutes. Admittedly the cap did run dry but then again i only have Amar BS 2 and Large Energy 2 and with flying a Temp controlled Bursts was never on my list of priorites.
Comparing this with a 1400mm is a non starter in order to keep the NPC atan optimal range i would have to warp in and out 2-3 times.
With the 800's to 425's it would be a case of not hitting a frig NPC ever and using drones to do the mission.
Anyone who thinks this is the result of the pilot not knowing what there doing needs a serious rethink.
|
Hellek
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 11:22:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Meatead
have fitted 6x800protos been at 14km (a sweet spot for 800s) and fired various ammos at an apoc and CAN NOT damage it to any big degree...the apoc can laugh off my damage - and if Im not armor tanking destroy me very quickly. He can tank all my damage AND fire his own weapons indefinitely...where I will run out of cap and ammo before he is even breaking a sweat...
14km, yes. And now whats the perfect range for pulse lasers (with multifreq)? yep, about 15km. So its totally right that you loose when you are in the perfect distance for the other ship, orbit the apoc at 8km, adjust speed if necessary to ensure that you hit, and it will have no chance against you as it won't hit you.
|
Hellek
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 11:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Meatead
have fitted 6x800protos been at 14km (a sweet spot for 800s) and fired various ammos at an apoc and CAN NOT damage it to any big degree...the apoc can laugh off my damage - and if Im not armor tanking destroy me very quickly. He can tank all my damage AND fire his own weapons indefinitely...where I will run out of cap and ammo before he is even breaking a sweat...
14km, yes. And now whats the perfect range for pulse lasers (with multifreq)? yep, about 15km. So its totally right that you loose when you are in the perfect distance for the other ship, orbit the apoc at 8km, adjust speed if necessary to ensure that you hit, and it will have no chance against you as it won't hit you.
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Shirei
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 11:30:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Hellek
14km, yes. And now whats the perfect range for pulse lasers (with multifreq)? yep, about 15km. So its totally right that you loose when you are in the perfect distance for the other ship, orbit the apoc at 8km, adjust speed if necessary to ensure that you hit, and it will have no chance against you as it won't hit you.
And then the Apoc activates its Webber. 
|
Shirei
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 11:30:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Hellek
14km, yes. And now whats the perfect range for pulse lasers (with multifreq)? yep, about 15km. So its totally right that you loose when you are in the perfect distance for the other ship, orbit the apoc at 8km, adjust speed if necessary to ensure that you hit, and it will have no chance against you as it won't hit you.
And then the Apoc activates its Webber.
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 12:22:00 -
[71]
Ther is nothing that can beat Pulse laser setup apoch/arma 1 on 1 .. even if you use EW, you just get no win situation
they can tank anything you can trow at them and they can dish out formitable damage
i say amarr ships are flavor of the month agen
-------------------------------------------
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Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 12:22:00 -
[72]
Ther is nothing that can beat Pulse laser setup apoch/arma 1 on 1 .. even if you use EW, you just get no win situation
they can tank anything you can trow at them and they can dish out formitable damage
i say amarr ships are flavor of the month agen
-------------------------------------------
|
Veneth
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 15:26:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Veneth on 07/09/2004 15:32:10
LMAO It's the pilots? Is that why I've flown all the Battleships in Eve, and besides the Dominix I found the Tempest to be the least combat worthy WHEN I have the most training in Minmatar ships and projectiles
Large P - 4
Motion - 5
Minmatar BS - 4
Surgical S - 4
I'd rather fly any other BS than the Tempest atm. The Typhoon is better purely cause it can at least armor tank while still doing it's crap damage.
The Tempest Suffers hard from Projectile Nerfs and it's slot setup. WHile the Raven has the same config it still does a lot more damage while not having to give up slots for tracking, which doesn't sound like it's much of a diffrence but it adds soo much to the Raven's abilites.
No, No ship needs to be nerfed the tempest just needs to be fixed. ATM I found the best setup for a TEmpest is 4 siege launchers and whatever guns you can squeeze on it
|
Veneth
|
Posted - 2004.09.07 15:26:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Veneth on 07/09/2004 15:32:10
LMAO It's the pilots? Is that why I've flown all the Battleships in Eve, and besides the Dominix I found the Tempest to be the least combat worthy WHEN I have the most training in Minmatar ships and projectiles
Large P - 4
Motion - 5
Minmatar BS - 4
Surgical S - 4
I'd rather fly any other BS than the Tempest atm. The Typhoon is better purely cause it can at least armor tank while still doing it's crap damage.
The Tempest Suffers hard from Projectile Nerfs and it's slot setup. WHile the Raven has the same config it still does a lot more damage while not having to give up slots for tracking, which doesn't sound like it's much of a diffrence but it adds soo much to the Raven's abilites.
No, No ship needs to be nerfed the tempest just needs to be fixed. ATM I found the best setup for a TEmpest is 4 siege launchers and whatever guns you can squeeze on it
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maxi
|
Posted - 2004.09.08 05:57:00 -
[75]
A tempest ...being the fastest tier 2 bs should be able to get to optimal range faster than any other tier 2 bs (skill/module dependant ofcourse). Now from my limited experience being at and being able to remain at optimal range can give you a lot better hit rate, hit points (whatever) than that slower bs struggling to get to its optimal range...achem apoc.
Anyway can flame me to death I don't care....but regardless speed surely must be important? No one mentions this as being an advantage to the tempest.
I do not fly one btw...can't see past my armor tanked uber 0.0 solo mining and occasional pvp fleet support vessel ze big lump of Dominix and my luverly drones.
Anyway must go drones need fed.
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maxi
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Posted - 2004.09.08 05:57:00 -
[76]
A tempest ...being the fastest tier 2 bs should be able to get to optimal range faster than any other tier 2 bs (skill/module dependant ofcourse). Now from my limited experience being at and being able to remain at optimal range can give you a lot better hit rate, hit points (whatever) than that slower bs struggling to get to its optimal range...achem apoc.
Anyway can flame me to death I don't care....but regardless speed surely must be important? No one mentions this as being an advantage to the tempest.
I do not fly one btw...can't see past my armor tanked uber 0.0 solo mining and occasional pvp fleet support vessel ze big lump of Dominix and my luverly drones.
Anyway must go drones need fed.
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Xtra Bitter
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Posted - 2004.09.08 08:37:00 -
[77]
Originally by: maxi
A tempest ...being the fastest tier 2 bs should be able to get to optimal range faster than any other tier 2 bs (skill/module dependant ofcourse). Now from my limited experience being at and being able to remain at optimal range can give you a lot better hit rate, hit points (whatever) than that slower bs struggling to get to its optimal range...achem apoc.
Anyway can flame me to death I don't care....but regardless speed surely must be important? No one mentions this as being an advantage to the tempest.
Well thats mainly because the apoc can change its crystal type and therefore its optimal range in something like 2 secounds and be firing again before the Tempest has even turned round to point in the wright direction to get to its optimal range. Or spend another 8s waiting for its ammo to load while its shields vanish.
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Xtra Bitter
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Posted - 2004.09.08 08:37:00 -
[78]
Originally by: maxi
A tempest ...being the fastest tier 2 bs should be able to get to optimal range faster than any other tier 2 bs (skill/module dependant ofcourse). Now from my limited experience being at and being able to remain at optimal range can give you a lot better hit rate, hit points (whatever) than that slower bs struggling to get to its optimal range...achem apoc.
Anyway can flame me to death I don't care....but regardless speed surely must be important? No one mentions this as being an advantage to the tempest.
Well thats mainly because the apoc can change its crystal type and therefore its optimal range in something like 2 secounds and be firing again before the Tempest has even turned round to point in the wright direction to get to its optimal range. Or spend another 8s waiting for its ammo to load while its shields vanish.
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deathbyfire
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Posted - 2004.09.08 08:44:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Veneth
Edited by: Veneth on 07/09/2004 15:32:10
LMAO It's the pilots? Is that why I've flown all the Battleships in Eve, and besides the Dominix I found the Tempest to be the least combat worthy WHEN I have the most training in Minmatar ships and projectiles
wtf is wong withteh domi it is a mighty fine ship in combat it can tank with the best of them adn has 15 drones to boot. i have a very nice domi setup were with my ok bs skills (i fly cruisers mostly) i can kill a blasterthron one on one.
-------------------------------
Evolve and adapt or die.
The choice is yours to make and no one elses.
"Your current safe bounries were once unsafe frontiers"-unknown
"Stupid people, can't live with them, and can't kill them because there would only be 1000 people left to play eve."-Me :D |
deathbyfire
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Posted - 2004.09.08 08:44:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Veneth
Edited by: Veneth on 07/09/2004 15:32:10
LMAO It's the pilots? Is that why I've flown all the Battleships in Eve, and besides the Dominix I found the Tempest to be the least combat worthy WHEN I have the most training in Minmatar ships and projectiles
wtf is wong withteh domi it is a mighty fine ship in combat it can tank with the best of them adn has 15 drones to boot. i have a very nice domi setup were with my ok bs skills (i fly cruisers mostly) i can kill a blasterthron one on one.
-------------------------------
Evolve and adapt or die.
The choice is yours to make and no one elses.
"Your current safe bounries were once unsafe frontiers"-unknown
"Stupid people, can't live with them, and can't kill them because there would only be 1000 people left to play eve."-Me :D |
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