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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
E Vile
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Posted - 2009.05.21 05:29:00 -
[1]
We have had a bit of time waiting for T3 prices to settle.
2.04 BILLION isk for lowest Jita price Tengu with selected subsystems for a cruiser.
Great new content! 2 BILLION for a Cruiser? Working as intended?
My opinion is SUBSYSTEMS ARE WAAAAY OVERPRICED.
Tengu itself has come down to 570 mil. Thats too expensive if you ask me BUT still not totally ridiculas as it is sure to come down more eventually. THE PROBLEM is subsystems are like buying the ship 5 more times over! I could see if this ship was TWICE AS GOOD AS A CARRIER, but come on devs...WTF!
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Warrio
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.21 05:33:00 -
[2]
Is your problem with the devs of Eve Online or with Adam Smith?
sXe |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.05.21 05:37:00 -
[3]
Honestly, if the moon was made of cheese...
I'd eat it.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.21 05:55:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Warrio
Is your problem with the devs of Eve Online or with Adam Smith?
The problem is with the devs and how they have chosen to limit sleeper spawn rates in w-space.
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Eventus stultorum magister. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.21 06:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Warrio
Is your problem with the devs of Eve Online or with Adam Smith?
The problem is with the devs and how they have chosen to limit sleeper spawn rates in w-space.
This. It is becoming more and more obvious that T3 prices aren't going to go anywhere near the intended 300 mil range unless CCP makes dramatic changes to either the build costs or the spawn rates/drop amounts.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.21 06:30:00 -
[6]
I'll just call it "CCP sucks at their own game's economics in spite of having hired an economist" and leave it at that.
We've been having this discussion since when exactly, at least one week before T3 went live on TQ ?
Yeah.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Raukho
Evoke.
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.05.21 06:36:00 -
[7]
T3 is overpriced but to be honest so is T2 atm. I'd propose for cruiser hulls something like.
T1 5-10 mil (fairly irrelevant as you can insure
T2 / faction 50-75 mil
T3 500 mil complete including subsystems
This is of course from a point of view of loosing ships in PvP and still at 500 mil I wouldn't fly a cruiser hull in pvp. As the risk of loosing it to blobage is huge. For now T3 is just a toy for the insanly rich players or those with a lot of time on their hands.
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Freighter Jjoe
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Posted - 2009.05.21 06:40:00 -
[8]
Seriously - why build the content if only a few people are gonna fly it. And I would say 300mil for a t3 cruiser fully fitted. Losing skills is whats supposed to hurt with those (in addition to isk)
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.21 06:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T
I'll just call it "CCP sucks at their own game's economics in spite of having hired an economist" and leave it at that.
We've been having this discussion since when exactly, at least one week before T3 went live on TQ ?
Yeah.
This discussion hasn't stopped since Interceptors were put into the game.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Warrio
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.21 06:46:00 -
[10]
T3 prices are fine and fill a good niche.
T1 cruisers are for the noobies, cheap bastards, impoverished bums etc.
T2 cruisers are for those who what to splash a bit of cash on something a bit better.
Command Ships and Black Ops (lol) are intended for those a bit more rich who want to throw some more cash at a problem for a bit more of an advantage.
T3 is for those good at making ISK who want a bit more flexibility.
Before T3 there was not real advantage to having billions to PvP with over just a few hundred million. Earning ISK is a skill and with it should come benefits. Can't afford it? Mine faster or something.
sXe |
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.21 07:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Soporo on 21/05/2009 07:28:13
Quote:
Before T3 there was not real advantage to having billions to PvP with over just a few hundred million.
So faction ships and officer mods were never expensive, used and no real advantage? Lawlz.
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.21 07:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Warrio
T3 prices are fine and fill a good niche.
Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.21 07:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Warrio
T3 prices are fine and fill a good niche.
Nice troll! 
--
Eventus stultorum magister. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:04:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Earning ISK is a skill and with it should come benefits. Can't afford it? Mine faster or something
What kind of skill is involved at clicking on a GTC seller site?
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Fagginator
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:16:00 -
[15]
I wanna fit Yeastamel gear on all my ships but it's too expensive. Come on CCP DEVS... WTF! DO Sumffin! /breaths through mouth |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Akita T
I'll just call it "CCP sucks at their own game's economics in spite of having hired an economist" and leave it at that.
We've been having this discussion since when exactly, at least one week before T3 went live on TQ ?
Yeah.
This discussion hasn't stopped since Interceptors were put into the game.
Except that this time we have at least three separate CCP sources hinting at the fact they WANTED to make T3 somewhat affordable and with a decent adoption rate...
...but in spite of their intentions, they failed to do the math, and we ended up with what we see now.
The three separate sources I'm claiming ?
First, there's the infamous "I fully expect T3 ships to end up costing" forum post (well, it's "only" one order of magnitude wrong, so it could have been worse I guess... not).
Second, there's the devblog about several things Apocrypha related, where they sideways hint at adoption rates far below "expectations" (well, duuh... if your expectations are not based on any calculations, that's what usually happens).
Finally, there's the feedback from people attending the Las Vegas get-together, claiming CCP employees have repeatedly expressed a dissapointment on how little T3 ships have been in use in spite of massive efforts required to put them into the game.
So... yeah... it's NOT exactly the same thing, you know ?
It's as close as it gets to CCP actually admitting failure without actually putting it in a news bulletin.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Morel Nova on 21/05/2009 08:32:40
just divide all requirements by somewhere between 5 and 10 and were in business.
I wants to fly loki, but when even tossing out cash for vagas is hard there is just no way its going to happen.
Put in space whales!
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hsrytjfdtyjh
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: E Vile
We have had a bit of time waiting for T3 prices to settle.
I could see if this ship was TWICE AS GOOD AS A CARRIER, but come on devs...WTF!
A MoM is approximately as effective as 2 carriers, and they average about 20bil after fittings.
With insurance i lose more then twice as much from a black ops loss then a carrier loss.
Price effectiveness ratio is not linear, in game or in most RL consumer markets.
Carriers do something completely different then cruiser hulls and they shouldn't be compared directly.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Morel Nova
just divide all requirements by somewhere between 5 and 10 and were in business.
Or, simply increase the harvest/drop rates by 5 to 10 and you get the same end result 
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Morel Nova
just divide all requirements by somewhere between 5 and 10 and were in business.
Or, simply increase the harvest/drop rates by 5 to 10 and you get the same end result
If CCP were really savvy, they'd do this and not tell us while claiming that everything is still as it was when Apocrypha was released.
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Eventus stultorum magister. |
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
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Posted - 2009.05.21 09:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: hsrytjfdtyjh
Originally by: E Vile
We have had a bit of time waiting for T3 prices to settle.
I could see if this ship was TWICE AS GOOD AS A CARRIER, but come on devs...WTF!
A MoM is approximately as effective as 2 carriers, and they average about 20bil after fittings.
With insurance i lose more then twice as much from a black ops loss then a carrier loss.
Price effectiveness ratio is not linear, in game or in most RL consumer markets.
Carriers do something completely different then cruiser hulls and they shouldn't be compared directly.
thats the thing, T3 hulls dont do anything t2 hulls cant do (except the bubble immunity/cov-ops cloak stuff but if you have to fit those 2 subsystems on each t3 ship most of the t3 content is useless and never used, so i assume it wasnt intended) so a similar price point is expected. not 20 or more times more expensive.
Put in space whales!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.21 09:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Morel Nova
just divide all requirements by somewhere between 5 and 10 and were in business.
Or, simply increase the harvest/drop rates by 5 to 10 and you get the same end result
…and also reduce the (cargo space) volumes by 5–10.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.05.21 10:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: E Vile
We have had a bit of time waiting for T3 prices to settle.
Only 2 months and 11 days and it hasn't settled yet.
Don't expect CCP intervention before september (6 months).
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.05.21 10:33:00 -
[24]
Send in ze macros to w-space!
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.05.21 10:43:00 -
[25]
Problem with t3 cruisers is that there is no true limiting factor but the price of the ship itself.
What I mean is, they are way to easy to train for. Also, they are very good ships that can do pretty much anything one can think of. Skills are cheap, they are all low in rank, pre-reqs are very low... If ship costs drop too much we might actually have too many t3 ships running about.
Oh, and the SP loss issue isn't really all that serious. Losing a level of a rank 1 skill can't possibly feel good, but it's far from a disaster - such as losing a 2-3 bil isk ship for example is.
So while I agree that the prices are atm too high, I'm not sure if we'll be much happier if and when they drop to a level acceptable to broader playerbase.
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Rip Striker
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Posted - 2009.05.21 10:46:00 -
[26]
Who cares about T3 ships, ambulation is coming soon. 
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.05.21 10:51:00 -
[27]
Its to be expected. Since you need effort to do the sleeper sites, in contrast to missions and ratting, most don't do the hard ones that really pay off. Many stick to soloing the lame class 2s :P.
In class 6 the real good stuff lies, and more of it then the other system, but it needs a lot of effort to do them, and many deem class 6 as "not worth it". I say different, when you actually know how, its pretty straight forward.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.21 10:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: E Vile
We have had a bit of time waiting for T3 prices to settle.
Only 2 months and 11 days and it hasn't settled yet.
Don't expect CCP intervention before NEXT september (18 months).
fyp
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2009.05.21 12:53:00 -
[29]
First off, t3 prices have already dropped by 50% or more since launch. I am doing my best to bring them down further, by shaving off the profit margin, but until others go along or other suppliers come online, its not going to happen. If I go too low, others will simply buy my stuff and resell at a higher price. Consider I still have 20 days before I can even produce hulls, which is one barrier. Ive only just finished all the skills to make one races subsystems, and its not tengus. And I only have so much capital to invest in getting stock out.
I would say you could buy a Loki now for about 1.5bn at the cheapest, so were getting closer.
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adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
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Posted - 2009.05.21 13:34:00 -
[30]
I heard ccp planned on nerfing respawn rates even more, though i seriously hope this is not true, not that i believe anything i hear before ccp confirms it anyway, anyone know if ccp has said something specific on what they are going to do?
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE
if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
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