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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6681
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:00:00 -
[91] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Because how the lag presents itself does not matter to me. Then you should stop using that word, because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Quote:I have no argument. Obviously. That's why you have to fall back on ad hominems so often.
Quote:Again, I cannot agree with an idiotic opinion. You may like it, but you are not anyone. So you think it's idiotic to be able to play the game. I take it you think it's smart to crash to the desktop? The simple fact remains: anyone who actually has to deal with TiDi absolutely loves it over the alternative. That's why it has had such a universally positive response.
Again, I understand that you actually agree with me but cannot admit this, and instead have to resort to ad hominems.
Quote:Stop derailing the question. I'm not. I'm saying your question is a false dichotomy. I then answer it. The answer remains the same: it doesn't matter in a dynamic environment.
Repeating a false dichotomy doesn't make it any less false. Repeating a question that has been answered will not yield a different answer. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:01:00 -
[92] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Malcanis wrote:Compared to the previous alternative merely "slowed down" is incredibly much better.
Not that you care because you're just amusing yourself with your usual contrarian bullshit. That is not the point. I am still comparing it to no lag at all. You want to compare it to before TiDi? Do it, but it is irrelevant for how TiDi works. I am not deny its usefulness. I said I see it as a work-around. You might want to reread the thread before you start spitting your hate over it. +Æf course it's a workaround. Why the **** do you think we're talking about before TiDi? We talk about before TiDi because it's a workaround to avoid the problems we had before TiDi, where things didn't degrade gracefully at all.
TiDi, the thing you're bitching and moaning up a storm about, is still reducing the lag you experience. |

Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
667
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Zagdul wrote:You sir... are an idiot and let me help explain to you why you're an idiot. Thanks, but no thanks.
Ignorance is bliss... right?
It's not rocket surgery. |

Li Charen-Teng
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:02:00 -
[94] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_jOS-cvq0&feature=plcp Checking EVE GATE every few minutes... |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:03:00 -
[95] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:+Æf course it's a workaround. ... Thank you. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:04:00 -
[96] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:But the undock process had commenced right? The UI acknowledged you had pressed the button?
Again. What lag is if it's not client or server failing to respond? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6681
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:That is not the point. It is the entire point. TiDi means you are just experiencing a slow-down rather than the often disastrous effects of high lag.
Quote:I am still comparing it to no lag at all. GǪwhich is retarded since the alternative to TiDi isn't GÇ£no lagGÇ¥ GÇö it's GÇ£black screen and crash to login screenGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:05:00 -
[98] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:+Æf course it's a workaround. ... Thank you. Which is reducing or eliminating the lag you're experiencing. |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Ignorance is bliss... right? What is the alternative? Listening to insults from players who have not yet fully grasped what I am talking about and are only able to understand me after they spewed out their insults only to row back? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6681
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:07:00 -
[100] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:What is the alternative? Shutting up, listening, and learning how the game actually works from those who have grasped what is going on. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:07:00 -
[101] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Zagdul wrote:Ignorance is bliss... right? What is the alternative? Listening to insults from players who have not yet fully grasped what I am talking about and are only able to understand me after they spewed out their insults only to row back? You're saying "tidi causes lag", we're saying you're wrong. |

Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
667
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Zagdul wrote:Ignorance is bliss... right? What is the alternative? Listening to insults from players who have not yet fully grasped what I am talking about and are only able to understand me after they spewed out their insults only to row back?
It's cool dude, I get it. You have no clue what you're talking about.
Keep posting though, it's amusing.
It's not rocket surgery. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
Everytime I tried to remove one storyline mission from journal I had to wait but nothing ever happened. All I got was "Soul-crushing lag" popup. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:11:00 -
[104] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Everytime I tried to remove one storyline mission from journal I had to wait but nothing ever happened. All I got was "Soul-crushing lag" popup. Still not caused by TiDi. |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:+Æf course it's a workaround. ... Thank you. Which is reducing or eliminating the lag you're experiencing. I agree that it can bee seen as such, but it cannot eliminate what is created by the players without the help of the players who need to see it as an early warning system and act accordingly. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:+Æf course it's a workaround. ... Thank you. Which is reducing or eliminating the lag you're experiencing. I agree that it can bee seen as such, but it cannot eliminate what is created by the players without the help of the players who need to see it as an early warning system and act accordingly. See it as an early warning system and act accordingly? As in "still fight in big battles"? |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:14:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:You're saying "tidi causes lag", we're saying you're wrong. No. I am saying that it moves the lag away from the server onto the client by creating an artificial lag on the client side.
There is not much different if TiDi slows down time or if I go blank for 5 minutes. You will simply not get much done during that time. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:16:00 -
[108] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Still not caused by TiDi.
Why I get "soul-crushing lag" popup window then? |

Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
667
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:17:00 -
[109] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:+Æf course it's a workaround. ... Thank you. Which is reducing or eliminating the lag you're experiencing. I agree that it can bee seen as such, but it cannot eliminate what is created by the players without the help of the players who need to see it as an early warning system and act accordingly.
Holy crap, really... you're clueless of the mechanics and purpose of what TiDi does for the server. This isn't me trying to insult you. I'm trying to help you out here.
You don't know what you're talking about. You are wrong, completely.
My laughter at your sheer naivety on this entire concept is beginning to cause me stomach cramps.
It's not rocket surgery. |

Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
667
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:18:00 -
[110] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Still not caused by TiDi. Why I get "soul-crushing lag" popup window then?
"Your request isn't as important, hold tight and make your request later."
It's not rocket surgery. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6682
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:I agree that it can bee seen as such It not only GÇ£can be seen as suchGÇ¥ GÇö it's what it actually does. What it doesn't do is act as a warning system, since it only kick in after something has happened.
Quote:No. I am saying that it moves the lag away from the server onto the client by creating an artificial lag on the client side. GǪwhich it doesn't do either. It just slows the client (and server) simulations down.
Quote:There is not much different if TiDi slows down time or if I go blank for 5 minutes. GǪaside from TiDi letting you do things at close to normal responsiveness, whereas blackscreens let you do absolutely nothing at zero responsiveness, meaning TiDi lets you play the game, which is different in every way from a black screen. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
185
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:19:00 -
[112] - Quote
Since we're both just saying the same thing over and over I figured I'd save myself some time and link to my post earlier: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1292136#post1292136 |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3748
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Malcanis wrote:Compared to the previous alternative merely "slowed down" is incredibly much better.
Not that you care because you're just amusing yourself with your usual contrarian bullshit. That is not the point. I am still comparing it to no lag at all. You want to compare it to before TiDi? Do it, but it is irrelevant for how TiDi works. I am not deny its usefulness. I said I see it as a work-around. You might want to reread the thread before you start spitting your hate over it.
Why compare it to no lag at all? That was never an option. Taking TiDi away doesn't take lag away. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:22:00 -
[114] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:You're saying "tidi causes lag", we're saying you're wrong. No. I am saying that it moves the lag away from the server onto the client by creating an artificial lag on the client side. How is it creating an artificial lag on the client side? Are you pressing any buttons and it isn't reacting?
TWHC Assistant wrote:There is not much different if TiDi slows down time or if I go blank for 5 minutes. You will simply not get much done during that time. You've never blackscreened, ever, have you?
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Why I get "soul-crushing lag" popup window then? Apparently the node isn't handling the request properly, sounds like something you might want to send in a petition about to see if it's by design (i.e. the server is rejecting that request to focus on what CCP considers the "more important request"), or if it's just an oversight.
Still isn't caused by TiDi, though. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3748
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:23:00 -
[115] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:You're saying "tidi causes lag", we're saying you're wrong. No. I am saying that it moves the lag away from the server onto the client by creating an artificial lag on the client side. There is not much different if TiDi slows down time or if I go blank for 5 minutes. You will simply not get much done during that time.
You don't actually know what TiDi does.
Hint: it's nothing to do with the client (except insofar as the client displays that little indicator). It slows things down server-side; the client merely reflects that. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:23:00 -
[116] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:"Your request isn't as important, hold tight and make your request later."
I tried to remove it many time yesterday. It's still there. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:26:00 -
[117] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Zagdul wrote:"Your request isn't as important, hold tight and make your request later." I tried to remove it many time yesterday. It's still there. So your request was rejected, not lagged? |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1881
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:27:00 -
[118] - Quote
Holy cow the trolls are thick in here tonight.
For those of you reading and trying to understand the real difference between the two....
Say you are traveling in low sec, and suddenly TiDi kicks in. Yes it's annoying for the world to slow down when you aren't directly doing anything that might cause it.
But you have to remember, if TiDi wasn't kicking in you would likely not have loaded system. You would have black screened upon jump, and you'd be sitting in your chair wondering if you had crashed or not. You would likely not have been able to log back in, sometimes for hours.
This is the alternative to TiDi, in very real terms.
When lag occurs commands you send to the server become so delayed they often time out or get radically out of sync with other players. When TiDi kicks in, it slows down the world clock on the server so that all of the requests players make via their clients have time to be properly processed.
No one black screens, all your actions happen in the proper sequence with other players actions. The negative effects of lag (crashes, black screens, lost commands, out of sync issues) disappear and are replaced with a slow, orderly game state.
So the next time you experience TiDi and feel like getting upset, just turn off the game for an hour or two.. and realize that this (effectively) would be the alternative at that moment if TiDi hadn't kicked in.
It is not ideal, but it works, and allows enjoyable game play to continue with minor inconvenience while better solutions are being worked on. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
283
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:27:00 -
[119] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Still not caused by TiDi. Why I get "soul-crushing lag" popup window then?
FYI, without TiDi, you wouldn't get this message. Instead, you'd get blackscreened for an hour and be unable to do anything, or just crash and be unable to log back in.
But I'm sure that dozens of people have tried explaining this to you but you seem incapable of understandign that things could be worse than taking three minutes to warp from gate to gate.  |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:28:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tippia wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:I agree that it can bee seen as such It not only GÇ£can be seen as suchGÇ¥ GÇö it's what it actually does. What it doesn't do is act as a warning system, since it only kick in after something has happened. This is what a warning system does. Something happens and you get a warning.
Tippia wrote:It just slows the client (and server) simulations down. An artificially created lag. The responses of your client become slower and slower as TiDi increases.
Tippia wrote:GǪaside from TiDi letting you do things at close to normal responsiveness, whereas blackscreens let you do absolutely nothing at zero responsiveness, meaning TiDi lets you play the game, which is different in every way from a black screen. The difference this makes in terms of success and achievement within the game is hardly different. You can do things during a black screen, too. You can switch to a browser and post on the forum. |
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