| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Do you have any idea what "lag" actually is? Yes. I already described it above. It is when too many clients are making too many requests to a node. Your PC is not too slow, the node is. Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something. Before tidi, that used to happen, or the node used to get so backlogged that it didn't even lag, it lagged out, i.e. requests went over a 8 or 10 minute timer and was just forgotten about. What we have now, is a graceful degradation so that it doesn't lag at all.
Moving in slow motion isn't lag. That's moving in slow motion. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens? |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:39:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens? So everything moves in slow motion in Call of Duty? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6681
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Yes. I already described it above. It is when too many clients are making too many requests to a node. Your PC is not too slow, the node is. So why do you keep saying that it's the same thing as TiDi's slow-motion effect?
Quote:Typical narcissist. So you agree, then, since you cannot come up with a counter argument (since, as we've seen, my answer is correct) and have to go for the ad hominem fallacy instead. Good.
Tippia wrote:Who likes to play when everything slows down? Anyone who's ever been in a big fleet fight. It's very very nice.
Tippia wrote:All I want from you is a yes or a no. GǪand your false dichotomy doesn't become any less false just because you repeat it. The answer remains the same: it doesn't matter in a dynamic environment. That makes for a very nice double fallacy on your part.
Jorma Morkkis wrote:How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens? Because that usually isn't lag either, but choppy frame rate. What we're talking about is like the part at the end of CoD4, when you finally shoot ZakhaevGǪ the slow motion part. It's not very laggy even though (or maybe because) it's in slow motion. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens?
There's no slow motion in call of duty. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:42:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:So everything moves in slow motion in Call of Duty?
I wouldn't say everything. Looks like you guys don't know what lag actually is.
Tippia wrote:Because that usually isn't lag either, but choppy frame rate. What we're talking about is like the part at the end of CoD4, when you finally shoot ZakhaevGǪ the slow motion part. It's not very laggy.
When you people start to learn that network/server lag doesn't have anything to do with framerate or slowmotion. |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something. Same thing, different description. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:So everything moves in slow motion in Call of Duty? I wouldn't say everything. Looks like you guys don't know what lag actually is. No, it looks like you don't know what lag is.
Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort. |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something. Same thing, different description. Nope. |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
You obviously don't understand what lag is - lag occurs when a system is saturated with traffic and starts to drop information, whether it's a CPU (in the case of eve) or a network bottleneck (in the case of call of duty).
Eve is smart enough to detect when it is at risk of being saturated with traffic and 'slows down' reality to avoid the lag that you are talking about. Lag means black screens, disconnects, ships not dying when they're meant to. Slow downs mean everything happening the way it's meant to, just slower.
They are totally different phenomena and your bleating that they are 'the same thing' is just ignorance.
|

Tobiaz
Spacerats
404
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:47:00 -
[71] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Tobiaz wrote:It's a bit weird 0.0 systems share nodes with empire systems. Wouldn't it make more sense to have 0.0 systems share only nodes with themselves? Because whenever one hits TiDi, the chance of other well-populated empire systems to be effected seem smaller to me, and vice versa causing more TiDi. Except perhaps some big null HQ systems, but CCP knows which ones those are. you're assuming the fight took place in nullsec - it didn't.
I'm surprised. You can't deny though that most of the blobby fights by far happen in null-sec.
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something. Same thing, different description.
Perhaps you should go and watch the Fanfest video about lag and TiDi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_jOS-cvq0
After that, you can come back here and post how mistaken you were. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |

Li Charen-Teng
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:You might not realise it but huge fleet fights are fun, and they bring in new players who love the idea of warfare on that scale. But if it's only 20vs20 in reality. But yeah, works if new players don't know what alt means.
Totally untrue. In PL it is main in carrier and alt on login screen for the supercap. 
Checking EVE GATE every few minutes... |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort.
So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system?
If that's not lag what it is? |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort. So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system? If that's not lag what it is?
It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6681
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:When you people start to learn that network/server lag doesn't have anything to do with framerate or slowmotion. Ehm. You do realise that I just said that framerate and slow motion doesn't have anything to do with lag, right? So I'm not entirely sure what your comment is aboutGǪ I already said it GÇö there's no real need for you to repeat it.
Quote:So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system? That is time moving slowly; the simulation running at less than a 1:1 game-time-to-real-time ratio. Slow-motion. Time Dialation. It's the server ensuring that you don't lag out, black-screen, or crash back to the login screen.
TWHC Assistant wrote:Same thing, different description. No, because what he described is pretty much the exact opposite of what TiDi does. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Francisco Bizzaro
104
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Gorenaire wrote: However from a gameplay point of view, its a pretty poor decision for the people who have nothing to do with the reason why the node is having problem.
Of course it will improve laoding grid time etc etc for the people who are in"battle system" but why people who have the bad luck to fly by in systems who are on the same node should also suffer the consequences for something they have nothng to do with.
My understanding is that this has to do with the way they distribute systems on the cluster. Multiple systems seem to be grouped into a logical "node" of systems, and these are all lumped together onto a physical compute node.
Ideally they should have a more fine-grained way of dividing up the work - and I don't see why they don't - but anyhow that's the way it is. And these types of things are often pretty fundamental design decisions which are difficult to fix once they've been made.
As one of the devs mentioned recently, WiS requires a re-think about how work is distributed and might provide some impetus for digging into the code at that level again.
Quote: Its just an idea but when they do this TiDI, CCP could send some kind of "traffic warning "message telling the players, the list of systems affected by TiiDi, at least we could plan accordingly.
This sounds like a good idea. Maybe the star map could include a filter which showed TiDi to help planning routes.
TWHC Assistant wrote:Tippia wrote:And I answered: it makes no difference in a dynamic environment. Come on, you can do it: yes or no?? Should CCP include information as how often systems are being visited into their planning or should they not? I expect they actually do this. But transient activity in a system which is statistically expected to be quiet is always going to mess things up, which I guess is what has happened to the OP. A more flexible/dynamic way of moving individual systems between compute nodes would be the only way to get around that.
|

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3748
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:49:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort. So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system? If that's not lag what it is?
That was lag. But TiDi doesn't cause lag, it's there to mitigate the effects of lag. How hard can this possibly be to understand? Blaming TiDi for lag is like blaming traffic lights for traffic. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
404
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: That was lag. But TiDi doesn't cause lag, it's there to mitigate the effects of lag. How hard can this possibly be to understand? Blaming TiDi for lag is like blaming traffic lights for traffic.
The not-so-smart people just see themselves standing before a red light with a lot of cars and blame the traffic anyway. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
Literally from the first line: In real-time applications, the term is used when the application fails to respond in a timely fashion to inputs.
The application was responding to inputs in a timely fashion. Not responding in a timely fashion would be 'black screens' and 'disconnections'.
Did it start undocking the second you hit undock? Yes? Then it responded in a timely fashion.
Perhaps you meant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6681
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag GÇ£Lag is a common word meaning to fail to keep up or to fall behind.GÇ¥
GǪwhich is pretty much the exact opposite of what TiDi does. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So why do you keep saying that it's the same thing as TiDi's slow-motion effect? Because how the lag presents itself does not matter to me.
Tippia wrote:So you agree, then, since ... Agreeing with you knowing what everybody thinks is idiotic.
Tippia wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Who likes to play when everything slows down? Anyone who's ever been in a big fleet fight. It's very very nice. Again, I cannot agree with an idiotic opinion. You may like it, but you are not anyone.
Tippia wrote:GǪand your false dichotomy ... Stop derailing the question. You are unable to agree with me on something very simple and harmless. One last time, or I have to report you for trolling, do you agree or disagree? |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3748
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:54:00 -
[83] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Tippia wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Who likes to play when everything slows down? Anyone who's ever been in a big fleet fight. It's very very nice. Again, I cannot agree with an idiotic opinion. You may like it, but you are not anyone.
Compared to the previous alternative merely "slowed down" is incredibly much better.
Not that you care because you're just amusing yourself with your usual contrarian bullshit. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Tippia wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Who likes to play when everything slows down? Anyone who's ever been in a big fleet fight. It's very very nice. Again, I cannot agree with an idiotic opinion. You may like it, but you are not anyone. Have you even been outside of hisec? |

Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
667
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:55:00 -
[85] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something. Same thing, different description.
You sir... are an idiot and let me help explain to you why you're an idiot.
Lag is when something doesn't keep pace. It falls behind.
By slowing the world down in EVE, it allows for everything to keep pace, thus, removing lag. TiDi slows the clock of the server and allows for millions of requests (jump/dock/warp/etc.) to keep pace with the with the maximum speed of the node..
As it has already been explained, but you refuse to listen, it is currently not possible to predict this behavior in EVE.
You did not black screen, the server stayed alive and you were still capable of warping to gates, completing a jump and dock effectively. Your request got through, you should be thankful.
It's not rocket surgery. |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Did it start undocking the second you hit undock? Yes? Then it responded in a timely fashion.
After clicking Undock I had to wait 5 minutes before my ship was outside of station before that I couldn't do anything. Well, spin my ship in hangar but that's it. |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:57:00 -
[87] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Did it start undocking the second you hit undock? Yes? Then it responded in a timely fashion. After clicking Undock I had to wait 5 minutes before my ship was outside of station before that I couldn't do anything. Well, spin my ship in hangar but that's it.
But the undock process had commenced right? The UI acknowledged you had pressed the button? |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Compared to the previous alternative merely "slowed down" is incredibly much better.
Not that you care because you're just amusing yourself with your usual contrarian bullshit. That is not the point. I am still comparing it to no lag at all. You want to compare it to before TiDi? Do it, but it is irrelevant for how TiDi works. I am not deny its usefulness. I said I see it as a work-around. You might want to reread the thread before you start spitting your hate over it. |

Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Malcanis wrote:Compared to the previous alternative merely "slowed down" is incredibly much better.
Not that you care because you're just amusing yourself with your usual contrarian bullshit. That is not the point. I am still comparing it to no lag at all. You want to compare it to before TiDi? Do it, but it is irrelevant for how TiDi works. I am not deny its usefulness. I said I see it as a work-around. You might want to reread the thread before you start spitting your hate over it.
Until you learn what lag means there's really no point in talking to you. /thread. |

TWHC Assistant
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:00:00 -
[90] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:You sir... are an idiot and let me help explain to you why you're an idiot. Thanks, but no thanks. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |