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CCP - The Hyperion REALLY needs some love

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darkmancer	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:27:00 - [31] Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Your fitting it wrong. The Hyp has low pg on purpose it's designed fit ions rerember you don't lose much dps when you downgrade hybreds its range. Rokh is designed for neutrons (which is why it need a slight pg boost) and gets to try and grab a few extra km with its optimal bonus, Hyp gets 25% damage bonus and get to use lager drones. After the MWD and Cap injector the Hyp gets 3 mids to play around with for web/scramb/sensor/dis/eccm/ecm, try that with the Rokh and your left with a 1 slot tank.
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:21:00 - [32] Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega.
Bevil Smyth Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:24:00 - [33] You Rokh enthusiasts are derailing the thread please make a new one about the Rokh. The Rokh at least has a role that it excells at, which is turret Sniper, something that neither of the other Caldari BS can do. Anyway I'm off topic too now. The point being is that the Hyp sucks at doing what its supposed to do when compared to its tier 2 counterpart and its Amarr tier 3 counterpart which is for a similar purpose. Certainly not enough to justify the cost of owning one. Im liking the pure damage bonuses or MWD bonus ideas in this thread so far.
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Bevil Smyth You Rokh enthusiasts are derailing the thread please make a new one about the Rokh. The Rokh at least has a role that it excells at, which is turret Sniper, something that neither of the other Caldari BS can do. Anyway I'm off topic too now. The point being is that the Hyp sucks at doing what its supposed to do when compared to its tier 2 counterpart and its Amarr tier 3 counterpart which is for a similar purpose. Certainly not enough to justify the cost of owning one. Im liking the pure damage bonuses or MWD bonus ideas in this thread so far. What are you looking for? "/signed" or just to shut up? Seriously mister - claiming that something doesn't work means it isn't working in comparison to something else. The best comparison to a tier 3 BS of one race is a tier 3 in another. Personally, with the exception of the abaddon, I believe all tier 3 BSs need some love. Clearly the mega should've been the gallentian tier 3 ship as it is, while the Maelstrom and Rokh both need some serious tweaking for various reasons. I'm sorry, but you can't claim that something is wrong by pulling it out of the context that actually makes it wrong. Thus, the only way to discuss this claim... this dispute, is by bringing it into context.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:57:00 - [35] Leave my hyperion alone, its fine. If anything, fix blasters tracking or optimal.
darkmancer	Posted - 2009.06.16 18:12:00 - [36] Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega. Don't be pedantic, okay yes the Rokh is primalily a rail platform but that doesnt mean Blaster fitting shouldn't be taken into account when balancing, the general Gal/Cald blaster balance is drones + teir 2 blasters vs top teir blasters for Caldari. It doesn't always hold, plus the Caldari tend to get the sticky end but thats how it should really work. plus the Rokh is supiour in several ways compared to Gal BS (raw EHP, plus there are some active setups which tank more than the hyp). I'm not saying it's a better blastership (far from it) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Anyway back to the plot like McEivalleys says you can't just say ship X is rubbish you need to support the arguement by showing it doesn't do the job it's intended to do, or that it performs worse compared to another counterpart. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.06.16 19:18:00 - [37] Give Hyperion a ROF bonus as well! Like the navy Exqueror!
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:17:00 - [38] Rokh whiners need to stop posting in this thread. A rohk is not designed to be a blaster ship. Its designed to a be a railgun-based sniper ship, a role it excels at. It has insane range, its lock range is more than generous, plus it has the ability to fit damage mods and a massive shield buffer tank. Every other sniper in the game has to balance buffer against range and damage in some way, but the Rokh has all of it taken care of by design by the fact that it has enough lows for 3 Magstabs, DC, and a fitting mod, and generous mids for shield extenders, invulns, cap boosters, and what have you. Rokh is fine for what it does. It is not supposed to be compared to the Hyperion. Hyperion is completely broken as a blaster platform. Anything the Hyperion does, the Megathron does better. It has no place in a small gang, it has no place in a fleet, it cant PvE, and it costs almost half again as much as a mega.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:37:00 - [39] If you give it 10% more powergrid and CPU the Hyperion may be able to get a decend enough fit on it to be worthwhile. It'd then can fit a full rack of neutron blasters/425mm rails and enough supplemental modules to support those. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Max Tux	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:40:00 - [40] then nerf the mega :P on a serious note, only reason the mega works better than the hype, is that ehp is better than local rep in most fights. ( EHP includes remote rep btw) as for rohk, slight powergrid boost would be nice, but its not majorly important. As for the suggested "it can't fit this this this this and this" You are supposed to make comprimises in fitting, if you didn't have to make a comprise somewhere then every setup would be the same, as there would be "best fit"
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.06.17 00:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Lucas Avidius Rokh whiners need to stop posting in this thread. A rohk is not designed to be a blaster ship. Its designed to a be a railgun-based sniper ship, a role it excels at. It has insane range, its lock range is more than generous, plus it has the ability to fit damage mods and a massive shield buffer tank. Every other sniper in the game has to balance buffer against range and damage in some way, but the Rokh has all of it taken care of by design by the fact that it has enough lows for 3 Magstabs, DC, and a fitting mod, and generous mids for shield extenders, invulns, cap boosters, and what have you. Rokh is fine for what it does. It is not supposed to be compared to the Hyperion. Hyperion is completely broken as a blaster platform. Anything the Hyperion does, the Megathron does better. It has no place in a small gang, it has no place in a fleet, it cant PvE, and it costs almost half again as much as a mega. Why do people fit rails in hype/mega then? Hybrid ships are hybrid ships and use both weapons. Also rokh is pretty useless sniper. I'm probably never going to fly caldari bs again, but rokh would need love in same manner than hyperion. That said I don't think either of them need any love. Both of those ships can just suck. They're obvious meant to be active tanking mission ships. Better fly amarr.
Altaica Amur Professors On Steriods DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.06.17 00:59:00 - [42] This and the Maelstrom certainly need some help to improve it, and the other two could use some tweaking so that the Abbadon wasn't quite so painful to put Tachs on and so that the Rokh can generate some respectable DPS inside of 100km. For the hype though I think there's a few hints as to where it should be going in the base statistics of the ship, in particular that it's the fastest tier 3 by a very significant margin. I don't think that it needs to be faster but making it easier to be fast would be effective, likly something along the lines of the Vindicator bonus or perhaps just some very favorable cap production to make both mwd and large armor repper are more sustainable choices in PvP instead of things you can only afford to use when the guns aren't running. Pushing the mobility envelope a bit further you might even want to half the damage bonus and put a tracking bonus in there to support it's role as a more mobile battleship.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.06.18 02:11:00 - [43] I'd be semi-fine with the Hype if it had 4 mids and 7 lows, and enough grid to fiw MWD, heavy cap booster, dual LAR and a full rack of Ions. Even then, the Mega's still better overall because it's so veratile. I say scrap all active-tanking bonuses in game; they will never be as good as a resist bonus, and active tanking is so rarely used these days that anything would be more useful (in general). I quite like the idea of giving the Hype a damage bonus AND a RoF bonus (and reducing it's drone bay to 75m3, say).
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 13:41:00 - [44] Basicly the Hype lacks one low(thats mostly the reason why it only deals medicore Damage) and 50m¦ spare Drones(it was designed as a flexible solo Blastership anyway). I personaly would even more like to see that Hype loses one low and one high and gains 2 Med Slots(Brutix -1 Low and +1 Med) and change the Rep Bonus to a Blaster ROF Bonus. So you get quick and agile Blasterships with leathal DPS and a light shield buffer/active tank. For people that think they will miss the tanked Blaster BS, you can tank a Mega nearly as good as the Hype with the extra Low, you can tank a Navy Mega simlar as a Hype and there is still the Kronos. Im not ***ing on active tanking in general, but on Blasterships, where DPS should be your first line of defence, not the amount of punishment you can take. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by:** Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:01:00 - [45] Originally by: darkmancer Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega. Don't be pedantic, okay yes the Rokh is primalily a rail platform but that doesnt mean Blaster fitting shouldn't be taken into account when balancing, the general Gal/Cald blaster balance is drones + teir 2 blasters vs top teir blasters for Caldari. It doesn't always hold, plus the Caldari tend to get the sticky end but thats how it should really work. plus the Rokh is supiour in several ways compared to Gal BS (raw EHP, plus there are some active setups which tank more than the hyp). I'm not saying it's a better blastership (far from it) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Anyway back to the plot like McEivalleys says you can't just say ship X is rubbish you need to support the arguement by showing it doesn't do the job it's intended to do, or that it performs worse compared to another counterpart. Rokh is designed for rails. The optimal bonus doesn't make much difference in a blaster platform (you would rather have falloff bonus). I know of a guy that flew rokhs with large ACs and I actually think it works better than with blasters, and I would gladly do the same cuz the tanking potential without much hurt to the damage potential is absolutely awesome... unfortunately large proj. spec. is not close enough on my wish list (but so much I guess for being narrow-minded...). A neutron gank mega would carve a rokh in half in direct confrontation. So much for the neutron blasters are made for caldari argument as well. The only time a rokh is superior to Gal BS is in large fleets, in its intended sniping role, in extreme ranges, which rarely happens as most ships in fleets are apocs and megas, which "forces" the rokhs to engage in similar ranges. Its easier to single and dual DD-proove, that's true. And that's about it.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:14:00 - [46] Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega. Don't be pedantic, okay yes the Rokh is primalily a rail platform but that doesnt mean Blaster fitting shouldn't be taken into account when balancing, the general Gal/Cald blaster balance is drones + teir 2 blasters vs top teir blasters for Caldari. It doesn't always hold, plus the Caldari tend to get the sticky end but thats how it should really work. plus the Rokh is supiour in several ways compared to Gal BS (raw EHP, plus there are some active setups which tank more than the hyp). I'm not saying it's a better blastership (far from it) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Anyway back to the plot like McEivalleys says you can't just say ship X is rubbish you need to support the arguement by showing it doesn't do the job it's intended to do, or that it performs worse compared to another counterpart. Rokh is designed for rails. The optimal bonus doesn't make much difference in a blaster platform (you would rather have falloff bonus). I know of a guy that flew rokhs with large ACs and I actually think it works better than with blasters, and I would gladly do the same cuz the tanking potential without much hurt to the damage potential is absolutely awesome... unfortunately large proj. spec. is not close enough on my wish list (but so much I guess for being narrow-minded...). A neutron gank mega would carve a rokh in half in direct confrontation. So much for the neutron blasters are made for caldari argument as well. The only time a rokh is superior to Gal BS is in large fleets, in its intended sniping role, in extreme ranges, which rarely happens as most ships in fleets are apocs and megas, which "forces" the rokhs to engage in similar ranges. Its easier to single and dual DD-proove, that's true. And that's about it. Actualy a well fitted Neutron Rohk can outtank/outbuffer a Neutron Mega in a 1o1. Also by using Faction Amno the Rohk has a fare better Tracking at the sniping range of Megas or Apocs.
Bevil Smyth Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 15:58:00 - [47] McEivally theres no need to get arsey about it I'm just trying to bring the thread back on topic as its been taken over by a Rokh discussion. I agree with alot of things you are saying about the rokh but thats not what we are supposed to be discussing here. My point is that the Hyperion does not really have a role, its outclassed at everything it can do by cheaper ships or by other tier 3 ships. It doesnt necessarily need buffing or nerfing it just needs changing. ============================ 2003 and still alive!
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.18 16:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Bevil Smyth McEivally theres no need to get arsey about it I'm just trying to bring the thread back on topic as its been taken over by a Rokh discussion. I agree with alot of things you are saying about the rokh but thats not what we are supposed to be discussing here. My point is that the Hyperion does not really have a role, its outclassed at everything it can do by cheaper ships or by other tier 3 ships. It doesnt necessarily need buffing or nerfing it just needs changing. But you see... that "role" is by trying to find a niche at which it excels at, and in certain circumstances I think it'll beat any other ship. Point being, the situations are pretty damn narrow with the current game mechanics. I understand that and relate to it, but there's nothing really wrong in the ship bonuses. I would advocate a layout change, to let it have another low slot in exchange for a med, and maybe some grid. But that's all. Insert clever remark where??

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