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CCP - The Hyperion REALLY needs some love

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SPACE L0RD Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 17:33:00 - [1] Edited by: SPACE L0RD on 13/06/2009 17:35:43 Come'on guys. Fix the ridiculous resists or give it a couple of more lows and 80 more cpu. It's already an endangered species in most every gang I've been in in the past year. This ship is not the peer of the other races top-tier BS. Why?
Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.13 18:00:00 - [2] Hyperion is fine. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
SPACE L0RD Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 18:02:00 - [3] Hyperion is not fine. See I can do that too.
Bevil Smyth Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.13 18:25:00 - [4] The Hyperion does seem a bit flacid compared to its other tier 3 counterparts, although i think that may be down more to a lack of niche that it fits into when compared to its stablemates. i mean it simply doesnt offer enough over a mega (or infact anything over a mega really) to justify the large price tag. and what it does try to do the abaddon can do better so why not fly that if you want to pay the isk? ============================ 2003 and still alive!
Max Tux	Posted - 2009.06.13 18:38:00 - [5] i think this is because in most fights EHP is better than repping, so the mega will win in a gang fight
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.06.13 20:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Bevil Smyth The Hyperion does seem a bit flacid compared to its other tier 3 counterparts, although i think that may be down more to a lack of niche that it fits into when compared to its stablemates... My thought exactly. Find an amicable solution to the buffer/active tank balance and the repairer bonuses will be worthwhile once more. Small gang or solo it does perform rather well, at least the ones I have run into, but once gang size increase to where repair is dwarfed by incoming damage they become insurance scams.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.13 20:44:00 - [7] It's very balanced in lowsec work, since it can brush off the dps of a bs and sentry guns at the same time.
oMAKo Gallente Kiroshi Group Exiliar Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.13 22:06:00 - [8] Hype is a blaster boat, and thatÆs the problem. Large blasters are broken since the last 'patch'. Fix this and the hype becomes decent (in gangs) again. Although i agree that a mega is a better blaster boat, bigger EHP, comparable DPS and cheaper!
Harotak THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.13 22:12:00 - [9] The hype is fine IMO, though blaster could use a bit more tracking.
SPACE L0RD Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 22:22:00 - [10] How does the Hyperion make a better blaster boat than the Mega? As a rr BS it fails. As a fleet sniper BS it fails. As a mission BS it fails. When I say fail I mean in comparison to the other races top tier BS and COST.
oMAKo Gallente Kiroshi Group Exiliar Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.13 22:32:00 - [11] Originally by: SPACE L0RD How does the Hyperion make a better blaster boat than the Mega? As a rr BS it fails. As a fleet sniper BS it fails. As a mission BS it fails. When I say fail I mean in comparison to the other races top tier BS and COST. Who said the Hype was a better blaster boat than a mega? ------------- Kiroshi Group -------------
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.06.14 00:01:00 - [12] The hyperion needs something done to it to make it a true blaster platform. The repair bonus does nothing useful. I have not flown a ship with a local repper (excepting capital ships) since 2007. I know CCPs "theme" with tier 3 BS was defense, since the big push back then was to make fights last longer, but really the Rokh and Abaddon are the only two that got worthwhile bonuses, in the form of resists. Change the repair bonus to something meaningful. Change out a mid to a low. Extend its base targeting range so it doesnt need a disusting number of sensor boosters to snipe. Give it a hybrid falloff bonus. Give it a little more CPU so it can fit stuff without having to use best named or faction. Give it a bit more grid so it can fit 8x425 Rails properly. Give it an MWD capacitor penalty bonus (wasn't that what it was going to get originally anyway?). Give it some kind of unique blaster bonus that no other ship in the game has. Give it something to make it worth flying over the Megathron, which excels at every role the hyperion has in a much more cost efficient and effective manner. Change the repair bonus in such a way that it benefits a remote repair gang in the same way an abaddons resist bonus benefits. Perhaps change the repair bonus to affect not only local reppers, but remote reppers acting on the ship. Afterall, if its electronics are designed to optimize the nanobots used by its own local reppers, why couldnt it optimize the nanobots from friendly ships? Make the Maelstroms shield boost amount bonus work in a similar way for sheild transporters. Just do SOMETHING with this ship to make it useful over a megathron. And dont you dare nerf the Megathron to make the Hyperion more attractive. Were all fed up with nerfs. And while you're at it, make the ship model the size of a battleship. I think it's almost as big as my Thanatos.
SPACE L0RD Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.14 17:31:00 - [13] my thoughts exactly
Barbanikos Amarr Alternative Routes	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:39:00 - [14] indeed hyperion needs something as a tier 3 bs ... i have hardly bought 1 of these in my entire life ... maybe make it a sniper ship like rokh as we are covered for blasters and drones with mega and dominix ... mega is good sniper too but if hype takes a specialize in this like the rokh but more armorish , would be nice.
Rouge Drone	Posted - 2009.06.14 19:03:00 - [15] Buff my domi too please.
Ione Star	Posted - 2009.06.14 21:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Lucas Avidius The hyperion needs something done to it to make it a true blaster platform. The repair bonus does nothing useful. I have not flown a ship with a local repper (excepting capital ships) since 2007. I know CCPs "theme" with tier 3 BS was defense, since the big push back then was to make fights last longer, but really the Rokh and Abaddon are the only two that got worthwhile bonuses, in the form of resists. Change the repair bonus to something meaningful. Yes! I absolutly agree with this. Hyperion and Dominix must be pvp ships, but not!
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:14:00 - [17] Why not at same time make rokh have more capacitor and damage bonus too, not to mention more powergrid. It also lacks space in drone bay tbh.
Alexander Vallen Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:56:00 - [18] I hate to say it but the Rokh is fine the way it is. Caldari have always had smaller drone bays. The Hyperion though deffinitely needs something done to it. I've had one sitting im my hanger collecting dust for who knows how long. Yes it's faster than most other tier 3 Battleships but so what? With it's agravatingly short targeting range, you're going to be chasing any other ranged target for 5 minutes or more as you try to bring them close enough to lock them. Compared to the Rokh it trades 1 medium slot for 1 low, but with the Hyperion's weaker shield, you need that extra low just to add an armor rep. Something on this ship needs adjusting.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:04:00 - [19] It isn't so much the fault of the setup of the Hyperion, more just getting the short end of the stick within the ditch all eve pvp has fell into for fleet tanking. Hitpoint buffer is everything. There are all sorts of feasable ways to fix this problem and I've still seen nothing from CCP on it. They are stubborn, they'll probably even buff active and shield armor tanking and all sorts of things before they'll do what really needs to be done. If we homogenize any of the exceptions to the rule in the shiptypes like the Hyperion to make it usable as a passive hitpoint buffer sponge to better save them from fleet alpha instadeath, all I think you'll be doing really is curing the symptom and not the illness. ------------------------------- Personal opinion for changing the Hyperion; +1 midslot, 100>150m3 dronebay.
Elaron Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:05:00 - [20] Originally by: 5pinDizzy They are stubborn, they'll probably even buff active and shield armor tanking and all sorts of things before they'll do what really needs to be done. So, what do you think needs to be done?
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:31:00 - [21] Some Options: -Boost all Repair Bonus (Shield and Armor) to 10% like T3 -Hyperion looses Repair Bonus and gains a second damage bonus (= +10% Hybrid Damage per level) (maybe nerf dronebay to 75m¦)
Letifer Deus Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.15 21:47:00 - [22] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 15/06/2009 21:49:36 Originally by: Perry Some Options: -Boost all Repair Bonus (Shield and Armor) to 10% like T3 I could live with this. People that active tank rokhs and abaddons will whine, but meh. ofc I only like this if marauder bonuses also get the boost. Quote: -Hyperion looses Repair Bonus and gains a second damage bonus (= +10% Hybrid Damage per level) (maybe nerf dronebay to 75m¦) If it kept the 6 low layout, I don't think this would work that well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Ender Flagrante Gallente Legio V Fidelus Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2009.06.16 05:13:00 - [23] Given that the Hype is supposed to be a tier 3, active-tanked blaster ship, you would expect it to be able to at least fit the following grid intensive modules: 8x Neutron Blaster II, 100 MN MicroWarpdrive II, Heavy Cap Booster II, and a Large Armor Repairer II. Nope, doesn't fit. So, maybe we use a few best-named items and a PG implant and it all fits, right? Not even close. The above modules exceed the Hyperion's grid capacity by nearly 14.9% with max skills. You need an RCU II for what ought to be a pretty basic fit on a tier 3 blaster ship. Now, consider the Abaddon: 8x Mega Pulse II, 100 MN MicroWarpdrive II, Heavy Cap Booster II, and a Large Armor Repairer PLUS a 1600mm RT Plate fits just fine. (I know you generally don't active tank an Abaddon. This is just to demonstrate how f'ed the Hype is in comparison.) CPU gets tight once you start fitting damage, resists, and mids, but the Hype has the same problem. To add insult to injury, the extra damage mod that the Abaddon can fit means that it out-damages the Hyperion and the resist bonus allows the Abaddon to active-tank nearly as well as the Hyperion (282 vs 290 efficiency in EFT with 2x EANM II + DCU II on both fits). Compared to the Abaddon, the Hyperion is an absolute joke.
Allahs Warrior Gallente Justified Hedonism And Dualism	Posted - 2009.06.16 05:40:00 - [24] Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 16/06/2009 05:44:24 Hyperion is basically the battleship you want to solo other battleships with. That's it. You may pretend it's a blaster boat, but with large blasters the way they are and NO tracking bonus...active tank bonuses in fleet are tarded. But I also don't want to see it turn into an Abaddon. It should be the domi with grid instead of drones. How gallente battleships seem to want to be: Domi - drone focus mega - mix hyperion - hybrid focus Why do we need an active tank bonus other than to differentiate it from the tracking/damage bonus of the mega? We don't. If you want a good solo gallente BS use a domi. Nothing a hyperion does is worth choosing it over a domi for small gang. Nothing a hyperion does is worth choosing it over a mega in fleet. Bonus to fix? Instead of repair bonus, give it a huge damage bonus, and that's it. Something like 10% or 12.5% should make it the super-DPS boat that Gallente blaster boats should be. edit: Or just give it a falloff bonus, as 90% of the time ur shooting blasters in falloff.
Ender Flagrante Gallente Legio V Fidelus Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Allahs Warrior Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 16/06/2009 05:44:24 Hyperion is basically the battleship you want to solo other battleships with. That's it. You may pretend it's a blaster boat, but with large blasters the way they are and NO tracking bonus...active tank bonuses in fleet are tarded. But I also don't want to see it turn into an Abaddon. It should be the domi with grid instead of drones. How gallente battleships seem to want to be: Domi - drone focus mega - mix hyperion - hybrid focus Why do we need an active tank bonus other than to differentiate it from the tracking/damage bonus of the mega? We don't. If you want a good solo gallente BS use a domi. Nothing a hyperion does is worth choosing it over a domi for small gang. Nothing a hyperion does is worth choosing it over a mega in fleet. Bonus to fix? Instead of repair bonus, give it a huge damage bonus, and that's it. Something like 10% or 12.5% should make it the super-DPS boat that Gallente blaster boats should be. edit: Or just give it a falloff bonus, as 90% of the time ur shooting blasters in falloff. I wasn't saying that I wanted the Hyperion to turn into an Abaddon. Definitely not. My point was that even if you don't think that Blasters suck (they do), and even if you think that active tanking bonuses are worthwhile (they aren't), the Hyperion's power grid is a joke. It needs at least a 16% grid boost just to make good use of the crap bonuses that it already has. Also, NO F*&#ING FALLOFF bonuses. A falloff bonus on a hybrid weapon ship is half a bonus. First of all, the bonus is only really useful at all for blasters. It's pretty much useless with rails. Second, it isn't even a great bonus for blasters. Base ranges for Mega Pulse II, Neutrons Blasters II, and 800mm AC II are 30/10, 9/12.5, and 6/20 respectively. Pulses have 3x more optimal than falloff. ACs have 3.33x more falloff than optimal. Blasters only have ~1.39x more falloff than optimal which means that any range bonuses are proportionally far worse than an optimal bonus for pulses or a falloff bonus for ACs.
Dyner Minmatar The Three Swords of Light	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:23:00 - [26] I would say keep the hyp a true-blue Blaster Boat; by changing the +5% to hybrid to strictly +5% large blaster. this limits it and prevents an in balance where rails are used instead of the blasters. I would also increase the powergrid to allow for full T2 Neutron blasters (atm it seems you need a ACR-II minimum) using an ACR-I. May even want to add an additional bonus that extends the range of webbers to no more than say 20km for a T2 webber. -or- A bonus to MWD speed (something small just enough to make it 90% as fast as say a cruiser with MWD) -or- A bonus reducing the Hyp's sig. radius Plan and simple I see a problem in that the Hyp has the stopping power (blasters) but has no real way of getting into range AND staying in range. most snipers and blaster-ships carry an AB or MWD to keep range. A BS is already slower than the stock speed of said ships. So one would have to be lucky to get within range (10km) to use a webber to maintain optimal Blaster Range. Before the prey engages their own MWD/AB; effectively kiting the Hyp to death. ---------------------------------------------------
Maxsim Goratiev Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:27:00 - [27] Hyperion is not broken. It is working in fleet fights and in gangs and solo, but another 2 gallente ships can do it just a touch better. I needs a small boost to it's usefullness anbd it will be fine. Any one of the above ideas would work. I used Hyp. and came back to mega. Powergreed and Cpu could be increased to make it better. This ship has 8 blasters, that's alot of powergreed, give it something to power them. Or make the bonus work for remote repp. To be honest I think all the repper and shield boost should work both localy and remote.. Reason being? Because shils with resist bonus can use it for active tank, buffer tank or spider tank. The boost is 7.5% instead of 5, so make it work personally and remotely, you can't use it for buffer tank in that case, so higher bonus value will make more sence. Hm...
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.06.16 11:28:00 - [28] Hyp could use a 7th lowslot, and a slight CPU/PG increase to allow us to actually FIT 8 turrets on it. Compared to the Rokh and Abaddon, the Hyperion really is pretty lackluster. If it weren't for the other 2 Gallente BS being pretty good, you'd see a lot more threads complaining about Gallente battleships.
oMAKo Gallente Kiroshi Group Exiliar Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.16 13:35:00 - [29] I like the the grid idea. Also an extra low slot is really needed! ------------- Kiroshi Group -------------
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:16:00 - [30] Another one got ganked though he thought he's uber. This whine of a thread is oh so funny. Every time someone mentions here the rokh as being in par forgets the little fact about the tackling/tanking problem every shield tanker has, neglects the fact that the rokh is the only tier 3 that doesn't have a damage/dps bonus to its primary weapons - it has a range bonus which shoves it to a sniper role if you wish to scratch the top - and for that it needs to fit a more PG hungry weapon than a blaster, yet the hype has more grid... Anyways, the bottom line is this... however you fit the rokh, it will not have the same tackling, firepower AND tanking abilities a hype has. Basically this whine-thread is all about wanting the tier 3 gallente BS to be more uber than the already pretty devastating Mega. I'm all for that if CCP boosts significantly the maelstorm and rokh as well and will allow them to tackle with similar tanking and firepower.
darkmancer	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:27:00 - [31] Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Your fitting it wrong. The Hyp has low pg on purpose it's designed fit ions rerember you don't lose much dps when you downgrade hybreds its range. Rokh is designed for neutrons (which is why it need a slight pg boost) and gets to try and grab a few extra km with its optimal bonus, Hyp gets 25% damage bonus and get to use lager drones. After the MWD and Cap injector the Hyp gets 3 mids to play around with for web/scramb/sensor/dis/eccm/ecm, try that with the Rokh and your left with a 1 slot tank.
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:21:00 - [32] Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega.
Bevil Smyth Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:24:00 - [33] You Rokh enthusiasts are derailing the thread please make a new one about the Rokh. The Rokh at least has a role that it excells at, which is turret Sniper, something that neither of the other Caldari BS can do. Anyway I'm off topic too now. The point being is that the Hyp sucks at doing what its supposed to do when compared to its tier 2 counterpart and its Amarr tier 3 counterpart which is for a similar purpose. Certainly not enough to justify the cost of owning one. Im liking the pure damage bonuses or MWD bonus ideas in this thread so far.
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Bevil Smyth You Rokh enthusiasts are derailing the thread please make a new one about the Rokh. The Rokh at least has a role that it excells at, which is turret Sniper, something that neither of the other Caldari BS can do. Anyway I'm off topic too now. The point being is that the Hyp sucks at doing what its supposed to do when compared to its tier 2 counterpart and its Amarr tier 3 counterpart which is for a similar purpose. Certainly not enough to justify the cost of owning one. Im liking the pure damage bonuses or MWD bonus ideas in this thread so far. What are you looking for? "/signed" or just to shut up? Seriously mister - claiming that something doesn't work means it isn't working in comparison to something else. The best comparison to a tier 3 BS of one race is a tier 3 in another. Personally, with the exception of the abaddon, I believe all tier 3 BSs need some love. Clearly the mega should've been the gallentian tier 3 ship as it is, while the Maelstrom and Rokh both need some serious tweaking for various reasons. I'm sorry, but you can't claim that something is wrong by pulling it out of the context that actually makes it wrong. Thus, the only way to discuss this claim... this dispute, is by bringing it into context.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:57:00 - [35] Leave my hyperion alone, its fine. If anything, fix blasters tracking or optimal.
darkmancer	Posted - 2009.06.16 18:12:00 - [36] Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega. Don't be pedantic, okay yes the Rokh is primalily a rail platform but that doesnt mean Blaster fitting shouldn't be taken into account when balancing, the general Gal/Cald blaster balance is drones + teir 2 blasters vs top teir blasters for Caldari. It doesn't always hold, plus the Caldari tend to get the sticky end but thats how it should really work. plus the Rokh is supiour in several ways compared to Gal BS (raw EHP, plus there are some active setups which tank more than the hyp). I'm not saying it's a better blastership (far from it) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Anyway back to the plot like McEivalleys says you can't just say ship X is rubbish you need to support the arguement by showing it doesn't do the job it's intended to do, or that it performs worse compared to another counterpart. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.06.16 19:18:00 - [37] Give Hyperion a ROF bonus as well! Like the navy Exqueror!
Lucas Avidius Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:17:00 - [38] Rokh whiners need to stop posting in this thread. A rohk is not designed to be a blaster ship. Its designed to a be a railgun-based sniper ship, a role it excels at. It has insane range, its lock range is more than generous, plus it has the ability to fit damage mods and a massive shield buffer tank. Every other sniper in the game has to balance buffer against range and damage in some way, but the Rokh has all of it taken care of by design by the fact that it has enough lows for 3 Magstabs, DC, and a fitting mod, and generous mids for shield extenders, invulns, cap boosters, and what have you. Rokh is fine for what it does. It is not supposed to be compared to the Hyperion. Hyperion is completely broken as a blaster platform. Anything the Hyperion does, the Megathron does better. It has no place in a small gang, it has no place in a fleet, it cant PvE, and it costs almost half again as much as a mega.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:37:00 - [39] If you give it 10% more powergrid and CPU the Hyperion may be able to get a decend enough fit on it to be worthwhile. It'd then can fit a full rack of neutron blasters/425mm rails and enough supplemental modules to support those. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Max Tux	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:40:00 - [40] then nerf the mega :P on a serious note, only reason the mega works better than the hype, is that ehp is better than local rep in most fights. ( EHP includes remote rep btw) as for rohk, slight powergrid boost would be nice, but its not majorly important. As for the suggested "it can't fit this this this this and this" You are supposed to make comprimises in fitting, if you didn't have to make a comprise somewhere then every setup would be the same, as there would be "best fit"
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.06.17 00:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Lucas Avidius Rokh whiners need to stop posting in this thread. A rohk is not designed to be a blaster ship. Its designed to a be a railgun-based sniper ship, a role it excels at. It has insane range, its lock range is more than generous, plus it has the ability to fit damage mods and a massive shield buffer tank. Every other sniper in the game has to balance buffer against range and damage in some way, but the Rokh has all of it taken care of by design by the fact that it has enough lows for 3 Magstabs, DC, and a fitting mod, and generous mids for shield extenders, invulns, cap boosters, and what have you. Rokh is fine for what it does. It is not supposed to be compared to the Hyperion. Hyperion is completely broken as a blaster platform. Anything the Hyperion does, the Megathron does better. It has no place in a small gang, it has no place in a fleet, it cant PvE, and it costs almost half again as much as a mega. Why do people fit rails in hype/mega then? Hybrid ships are hybrid ships and use both weapons. Also rokh is pretty useless sniper. I'm probably never going to fly caldari bs again, but rokh would need love in same manner than hyperion. That said I don't think either of them need any love. Both of those ships can just suck. They're obvious meant to be active tanking mission ships. Better fly amarr.
Altaica Amur Professors On Steriods DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.06.17 00:59:00 - [42] This and the Maelstrom certainly need some help to improve it, and the other two could use some tweaking so that the Abbadon wasn't quite so painful to put Tachs on and so that the Rokh can generate some respectable DPS inside of 100km. For the hype though I think there's a few hints as to where it should be going in the base statistics of the ship, in particular that it's the fastest tier 3 by a very significant margin. I don't think that it needs to be faster but making it easier to be fast would be effective, likly something along the lines of the Vindicator bonus or perhaps just some very favorable cap production to make both mwd and large armor repper are more sustainable choices in PvP instead of things you can only afford to use when the guns aren't running. Pushing the mobility envelope a bit further you might even want to half the damage bonus and put a tracking bonus in there to support it's role as a more mobile battleship.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.06.18 02:11:00 - [43] I'd be semi-fine with the Hype if it had 4 mids and 7 lows, and enough grid to fiw MWD, heavy cap booster, dual LAR and a full rack of Ions. Even then, the Mega's still better overall because it's so veratile. I say scrap all active-tanking bonuses in game; they will never be as good as a resist bonus, and active tanking is so rarely used these days that anything would be more useful (in general). I quite like the idea of giving the Hype a damage bonus AND a RoF bonus (and reducing it's drone bay to 75m3, say).
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 13:41:00 - [44] Basicly the Hype lacks one low(thats mostly the reason why it only deals medicore Damage) and 50m¦ spare Drones(it was designed as a flexible solo Blastership anyway). I personaly would even more like to see that Hype loses one low and one high and gains 2 Med Slots(Brutix -1 Low and +1 Med) and change the Rep Bonus to a Blaster ROF Bonus. So you get quick and agile Blasterships with leathal DPS and a light shield buffer/active tank. For people that think they will miss the tanked Blaster BS, you can tank a Mega nearly as good as the Hype with the extra Low, you can tank a Navy Mega simlar as a Hype and there is still the Kronos. Im not ***ing on active tanking in general, but on Blasterships, where DPS should be your first line of defence, not the amount of punishment you can take. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by:** Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:01:00 - [45] Originally by: darkmancer Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega. Don't be pedantic, okay yes the Rokh is primalily a rail platform but that doesnt mean Blaster fitting shouldn't be taken into account when balancing, the general Gal/Cald blaster balance is drones + teir 2 blasters vs top teir blasters for Caldari. It doesn't always hold, plus the Caldari tend to get the sticky end but thats how it should really work. plus the Rokh is supiour in several ways compared to Gal BS (raw EHP, plus there are some active setups which tank more than the hyp). I'm not saying it's a better blastership (far from it) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Anyway back to the plot like McEivalleys says you can't just say ship X is rubbish you need to support the arguement by showing it doesn't do the job it's intended to do, or that it performs worse compared to another counterpart. Rokh is designed for rails. The optimal bonus doesn't make much difference in a blaster platform (you would rather have falloff bonus). I know of a guy that flew rokhs with large ACs and I actually think it works better than with blasters, and I would gladly do the same cuz the tanking potential without much hurt to the damage potential is absolutely awesome... unfortunately large proj. spec. is not close enough on my wish list (but so much I guess for being narrow-minded...). A neutron gank mega would carve a rokh in half in direct confrontation. So much for the neutron blasters are made for caldari argument as well. The only time a rokh is superior to Gal BS is in large fleets, in its intended sniping role, in extreme ranges, which rarely happens as most ships in fleets are apocs and megas, which "forces" the rokhs to engage in similar ranges. Its easier to single and dual DD-proove, that's true. And that's about it.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:14:00 - [46] Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Originally by: McEivalley Originally by: darkmancer Edited by: darkmancer on 16/06/2009 15:28:02 Rokh is designed for neutrons... Wrong. Rokh is designed for rails. Everything a rokh can do, a hype can do better, both overshadowed by the mega. Don't be pedantic, okay yes the Rokh is primalily a rail platform but that doesnt mean Blaster fitting shouldn't be taken into account when balancing, the general Gal/Cald blaster balance is drones + teir 2 blasters vs top teir blasters for Caldari. It doesn't always hold, plus the Caldari tend to get the sticky end but thats how it should really work. plus the Rokh is supiour in several ways compared to Gal BS (raw EHP, plus there are some active setups which tank more than the hyp). I'm not saying it's a better blastership (far from it) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Anyway back to the plot like McEivalleys says you can't just say ship X is rubbish you need to support the arguement by showing it doesn't do the job it's intended to do, or that it performs worse compared to another counterpart. Rokh is designed for rails. The optimal bonus doesn't make much difference in a blaster platform (you would rather have falloff bonus). I know of a guy that flew rokhs with large ACs and I actually think it works better than with blasters, and I would gladly do the same cuz the tanking potential without much hurt to the damage potential is absolutely awesome... unfortunately large proj. spec. is not close enough on my wish list (but so much I guess for being narrow-minded...). A neutron gank mega would carve a rokh in half in direct confrontation. So much for the neutron blasters are made for caldari argument as well. The only time a rokh is superior to Gal BS is in large fleets, in its intended sniping role, in extreme ranges, which rarely happens as most ships in fleets are apocs and megas, which "forces" the rokhs to engage in similar ranges. Its easier to single and dual DD-proove, that's true. And that's about it. Actualy a well fitted Neutron Rohk can outtank/outbuffer a Neutron Mega in a 1o1. Also by using Faction Amno the Rohk has a fare better Tracking at the sniping range of Megas or Apocs.
Bevil Smyth Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 15:58:00 - [47] McEivally theres no need to get arsey about it I'm just trying to bring the thread back on topic as its been taken over by a Rokh discussion. I agree with alot of things you are saying about the rokh but thats not what we are supposed to be discussing here. My point is that the Hyperion does not really have a role, its outclassed at everything it can do by cheaper ships or by other tier 3 ships. It doesnt necessarily need buffing or nerfing it just needs changing. ============================ 2003 and still alive!
McEivalley Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.06.18 16:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Bevil Smyth McEivally theres no need to get arsey about it I'm just trying to bring the thread back on topic as its been taken over by a Rokh discussion. I agree with alot of things you are saying about the rokh but thats not what we are supposed to be discussing here. My point is that the Hyperion does not really have a role, its outclassed at everything it can do by cheaper ships or by other tier 3 ships. It doesnt necessarily need buffing or nerfing it just needs changing. But you see... that "role" is by trying to find a niche at which it excels at, and in certain circumstances I think it'll beat any other ship. Point being, the situations are pretty damn narrow with the current game mechanics. I understand that and relate to it, but there's nothing really wrong in the ship bonuses. I would advocate a layout change, to let it have another low slot in exchange for a med, and maybe some grid. But that's all. Insert clever remark where??

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