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If the Maller had 25MB of drones

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SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.16 15:46:00 - [1] Edited by: SuiJuris on 16/07/2009 15:46:29 Would it be overpowered? Right in line with the best cruisers in the game? Or still not quite up to snuff? Do you think the Maller is fine right now? The Maller has a epic tank but unfortunately tanking isn't really a valid gang role as you just get ignored then killed last. You can tank it heavily and fit web+scram+small guns or dual 180's and murder friggies. Or you can reputation tank it and go with the same setup but full gank and **** friggies and dessies even faster. Thats the only good use I've found for it outside of bait, and VERY heavy tackler. A full flight of Hob II's would add 99 dps to the Maller. What do you guys think? --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.07.16 15:48:00 - [2] I'm thinking of cleaning my garage.
hobo deluxe	Posted - 2009.07.16 16:02:00 - [3] Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.07.16 16:50:00 - [4] I still want t1 khanid versions and the maller would make a fine one since it sucks otherwise, give it a ham bonus
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.07.16 17:02:00 - [5] Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw agreed
Ndauthina	Posted - 2009.07.16 17:09:00 - [6] Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw /signed oh and I am thinking about Miller High Life
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.16 17:30:00 - [7] It does not need a full flight (ie. 25m3), it would be a contender in its own right with 10-20m3 and no other changes. Reason: The Maller can already do 2-300dps using lasers so damage its not the issue, it is the absolute vulnerability to anything small that gets under the guns. A few drones would be more than enough to prevent this without pushing it out of balance. Love the Maller myself, so many lovely options when fitting it. Either a bit of drones or the utility high moved to mids and it becomes my new favourite.
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.07.16 17:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Love the Maller myself, so many lovely options when fitting it. Either a bit of drones or the utility high moved to mids and it becomes my new favourite. Veshta, I would love to see one decent fit for this ship wherein it fulfills it's role as a Tier 3 cruiser. The only fits which seem to even approach 'meh' status are the scram/web/electron fit and the 220AC/point/web fit; both require three weapon upgrades just to get any kind of good dps out of them. As far as design changes go, despite my having millions in drone skill points, I have to say "Stop trying to turn every broken Amarr ship into a Gallentean laser boat". Those who suggest having both the Maller and the Proph become T1 variants of their T2 Khanid counterparts are right on target. Give the Maller an all-purpose missile RoF bonus and the Prophecy a specific HAM damage bonus in place of their respective laser cap usage bonuses. It fixes both boats instantly with no other changes, makes perfect sense, and could be done tomorrow. Then all you'd have to do is give the poor Omen a bit more fitting and your entire Amarrian T1 line is completely fixed! -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2009.07.16 18:27:00 - [9] Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw But then I couldn't fit autocannons on it
MalVortex Reaper Industries	Posted - 2009.07.16 18:52:00 - [10] Quote: If The Maller Had 25mb of drones It would still be useless. It can't fit the guns it wants without ruining its tank, it has no damage bonus, it has an insanely useless highslot. The maller, much like the omen, needs a complete redesign and removal of tiers to be worthwhile. The laser thorax is so much better than either the omen or maller that it makes the Amarrian purist in my sick.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:07:00 - [11] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw But then I couldn't fit autocannons on it You still could but you would then feel dirty. The Maller is interesting, It has CRAPLOADS of extra grid, and a nice utility high for a med neut, 3 midslots, and a great capacitor, a epic tank... and is just missing 1 thing from being a really useful ship. The important part. DAMAGE. Adding 25mb of drone bay wouldn't make it a Laser Gallente ship. Rupture gets a full flight of light drones and then some is it a Gallente AC boat? I can see how a full flight might be overpowered though. The Damage bonus to lasers is a definite possibility. There are indeed 2 very different ways to fix the Maller / Proph, We could make them T1 Khanid ships, or we could add a drone bay. I think with a drone bay the Maller would be a unique cruiser as you could field a epic tank, and fit whatever guns fill the roll you want to do with it on it. Currently with its low DPS the real useful roles for it now are picking on stuff smaller then it. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Mutnin on 16/07/2009 19:42:57 Seems to me the Maller was meant to be a cruiser sized Drake. More of a bait ship or heavy tackler. It does suck that you can't fit a good tank "and" cruiser sized guns. However it's not the only cruiser in the same boat. The problems I see with it are it's dead slow if you tank it out, but then you have no range unless you fit it with small Arti's or something. It is however quite awesome on frigs with AC's but I think almost everyone knows that by now. I must admit, I trained originally for Amarr because I really like that Abaddon and the Curse/Pilgrim. However I found myself fly Gallente ships before to long because Amarr cruisers just out right suck. Even the Vexor beats out the Arbi for drone/neut boats. Then again, I've never bothered to train T2 med lasers, so maybe that makes a big difference on say an Omen. The problem is Amarr have almost over powering BS's and the Harbi is a great BC. The Pilgram/Curse are awesome Recons and the Zealot is an great as well, so Amarr ships start to shine at the high end. On the counter, Minmatar have great frigs, cruiser and BC's for younger players but the BS's just suck compared to other races and can be decimated at range.
Iria Ahrens Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Meridius Dex Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Love the Maller myself, so many lovely options when fitting it. Either a bit of drones or the utility high moved to mids and it becomes my new favourite. As far as design changes go, despite my having millions in drone skill points, I have to say "Stop trying to turn every broken Amarr ship into a Gallentean laser boat". Those who suggest having both the Maller and the Proph become T1 variants of their T2 Khanid counterparts are right on target. Well, I disagree in part. I agree that the maller should be a t1 version of the Khanid ship. It's always been somewhat dumb to me that Amarr had a missile frig, then nothing until t2 Hacs and command ships. But I've also always found it equally messed up that we were the other drone race, being the other race with drone bonused ships, but only for the Arby hull t1 and t2, and the t2 frig Sentinel--the Sentinel doesn't have a bonus, but it is definitely a drone frig. Now we have the Legion with drone option too, and missiles too. So I see Amarr as a laser/drone/missile race, not as a Laser race that a lot of people keep trying to impose. Thus, making a ship a drone ship doesn't make it a Gallente laser boat. Drones are not the sole province of the Gallente. On the other hand, I agree with you. Amarr already has a Drone bonused Cruiser, we don't need another Drone cruiser. Thus, the Maller would be better as a missile cruiser. -- Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
Cavazos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Wideen I still want t1 khanid versions and the maller would make a fine one since it sucks otherwise, give it a ham bonus pretty much called a Sacrilege
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 16/07/2009 19:42:57 Seems to me the Maller was meant to be a cruiser sized Drake. More of a bait ship or heavy tackler. It does suck that you can't fit a good tank "and" cruiser sized guns. However it's not the only cruiser in the same boat. You CAN fit a Amazing tank on it and still get cruiser sized guns. Much better then say a Thorax's tank. I don't think the problem is in anyway related to its fittings. I think it has plenty of grid. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
max scrotes Gallente Aurora Security	Posted - 2009.07.16 20:09:00 - [16] i would like to see the cap bonus replaced by a neut/nos range bonus personally. after all the amarr are supposed to be 'the king of cap warfare'
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.07.16 20:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Cavazos Originally by: Wideen I still want t1 khanid versions and the maller would make a fine one since it sucks otherwise, give it a ham bonus pretty much called a Sacrilege don't see why it has to be a sac just because it shares the same weapon system
Iria Ahrens Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.16 21:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Cavazos Originally by: Wideen I still want t1 khanid versions and the maller would make a fine one since it sucks otherwise, give it a ham bonus pretty much called a Sacrilege A t1 version of the Sacrilege would not be called a Sacrilege any more than a Prophecy is called a Absolution. -- Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
fkingfurious	Posted - 2009.07.16 21:17:00 - [19] Is the Maller really that bad? Take this fit (based on the idea of cheap rigs after the next patch) [Maller, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Medium Energy Neutralizer II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Thats like 33K EHP and 260 DPS @ 7km or 200 DPS @ 20KM. Cap stable with everything except the MWD which gives it some handy close range neuting power and switching in Scorch for 20km optimal gives it some decent versatility in gang. Actually, 25mb drones would make that a really good ship and tbh not be even a little bit unbalanced. 360 DPS with a flight of Hob II's would actually be pretty good. It doesnt need a laser damage bonus to be good, the drones would give it a needed DPS boost whiule letting it retain it's character in the form of the resist bonus and the subsequent impressive tank. GIEF MALLER DRONES NOW PLSTHX
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.16 21:42:00 - [20] Don't make the Maller (or Prophecy) T1 Khanid ships. Those are Amarr ships and they are Lasers and armor tanks in varying configurations. Instead of calling for replacements, ask for more ship hulls, like a separate T1 Khanid line and Khanid Navy ships. I think making the Maller a mini-Abaddon would actually work, if it had the PG and CPU for a proper fit. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Kismo	Posted - 2009.07.16 22:37:00 - [21] It's probably not enough actually.
Sir Muffoon Carried Hate	Posted - 2009.07.16 23:09:00 - [22] Edited by: Sir Muffoon on 16/07/2009 23:11:04 Originally by: fkingfurious Is the Maller really that bad? Take this fit (based on the idea of cheap rigs after the next patch) [Maller, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, ANMF Medium Energy Neutralizer II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Thats like 33K EHP and 260 DPS @ 7km or 200 DPS @ 20KM. Cap stable with everything except the MWD which gives it some handy close range neuting power and switching in Scorch for 20km optimal gives it some decent versatility in gang. Actually, 25mb drones would make that a really good ship and tbh not be even a little bit unbalanced. 360 DPS with a flight of Hob II's would actually be pretty good. It doesnt need a laser damage bonus to be good, the drones would give it a needed DPS boost whiule letting it retain it's character in the form of the resist bonus and the subsequent impressive tank. GIEF MALLER DRONES NOW PLSTHX Triple trimarks.. Edit; nvm, skipped that one line, but still it's going to handle badly and doesn't give decent dps. If you're going to assume every cruiser is going to be using triple trimarks after the patch you have to consider the Omen and Arbitrator are still going to be better. One sec, gunna cook up some setups in EFT.
Siobhan Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.17 01:38:00 - [23] +1 for "reputation tank".
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:17:00 - [24] Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw Signed Still WTB T1 armor tanking HAM cruiser and BC
Amberly Coteaz Amarr The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:39:00 - [25] Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw If only they could do that to the Prophecy and Punisher too. The Punisher would be a little closer to the Rifter in terms of performance and the Prophecy would be a nice alternative to the Harbinger. Lower damage from grid/turret slots/drone bay and a better tank. If you find yourself in a fair fight, something went wrong Originally by: Patch86 OK people, Amberly Coteaz has won life for the time being. Everyone go home and wait for the round reset.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:46:00 - [26] Edited by: Garia666 on 17/07/2009 10:47:27 The maller was once the best cruiser in town.. it had the name duramaller. There where also setups with maller and a 100mn ab before the ab and mwd changes. i found a linky with an old setup. http://www.garia.net/gallery/Maller-Setup/2004_11_12_20_48_02 read the text under it instead of the picture.... www.garia.net
Kurfin	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:55:00 - [27] Originally by: hobo deluxe Make it a mini-abaddon. 5% dmg and 5% resistance and maybe then amarr may finaly have a competitive laser cruiser. I insist on the "laser" part btw I have to disagree, the Maller needs it's laser cap bonus. The Abaddon can get away without it because as a tier 3 BS it can have high skill requirements to fly properly. If you have the skills to effectively use a non cap bonused Maller, you probably have the skills to fly a Zealot. A small drone bay would be nice, I don't think 15m3 would be called overpowered. TBH I don't think the Maller is that bad, not great, but not as broken as some other ships. The way I look at the Maller is that it's armor bonus frees up lowslots for heatsinks. And I definitely prefer it to the PITA to fit Omen.
Doc Mexallon	Posted - 2009.07.17 11:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Iria Ahrens Originally by: Cavazos Originally by: Wideen I still want t1 khanid versions and the maller would make a fine one since it sucks otherwise, give it a ham bonus pretty much called a Sacrilege A t1 version of the Sacrilege would not be called a Sacrilege any more than a Prophecy is called a Absolution. That's because the Prophecy is not Carthum. A T1 Khanid Maller would look exactly like a Sac. Personally, I'd like it to be just a normal missile cruiser, just for variety. Please don't make it Khanid and look like the Sac.
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.07.17 17:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Meridius Dex on 17/07/2009 17:59:54 Haven't heard anything here to change my mind: give Maller some kind of generic missile bonus applicable to any weapon system in that class, HAM damage bonus to Proph and some decent fitting to poor Omen so the Amarr finally have a genuine laser gunboat in the cruiser line. Like the other races, you could start out following the "path" which best suits you: Tormentor/Maller/Prophecy/Malediction/Sacrilege/Damnation or Punisher/Omen/Harbinger/Crusader/Zealot/Absolution or Crucifier/Arbitrator/Sentinel/Recons. The main fleet ships of the Amarr line, the battleships, are all still laser focused. But this makes the race as a whole a lot more interesting. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.17 18:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Meridius Dex Edited by: Meridius Dex on 17/07/2009 17:59:54 Haven't heard anything here to change my mind: give Maller some kind of generic missile bonus applicable to any weapon system in that class, HAM damage bonus to Proph and some decent fitting to poor Omen so the Amarr finally have a genuine laser gunboat in the cruiser line. Like the other races, you could start out following the "path" which best suits you: Inquisitor/Maller/Prophecy/Malediction/Sacrilege/Damnation or Punisher/Omen/Harbinger/Crusader/Zealot/Absolution or Crucifier/Arbitrator/Sentinel/Recons. The main fleet ships of the Amarr line, the battleships, are all still laser focused. But this makes the race as a whole a lot more interesting. Fixed it for you. Tormentor is the mining frig. Inquisitor is the Missile Frig. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."

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