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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.08.22 19:07:00 -
[181]
Maybe if the vast majority of plexes were't done in trash fit t1 frigs and dessies it would be worth bouncing them in a plex but as it is no thanks. If CCP had made them need the heavier ships in the heavier plexes instead of more speed frigs and I might have cared. Considering the size restrictions on gates, and the fact that they drop you out of disruptor range from the button it's pretty much impossible to catch a target who's not a twit. And you're already spotting them rats.
I won't say that it doesn't take dedication as it's a massive time sink. Saying it takes skill to orbit a beacon while evading npcs or sitting on a freaking button doing nothing is another thing entirely. As for PVP in plexes, well thats about as close to consentual PVP as there is in EVE.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.08.25 15:58:00 -
[182]
Heh. How do you know when you're gotten to your opponent? When they change their behavior in response to you. And, boy, have Damar and his kids changed.
These past few days I've noticed that the had adjusted their pattern. It used to be that if we found one of them, or their alts, in a plex they'd run away and reship to try to fight us for the plex. Not anymore, recently they've just been running away. I hadn't really understood it until a conversation in local one system over while we were running another plex clued me in. It seems we've disturbed Damar enough that he's decided to try the third grade cold shoulder treatment on us. It seems he's given "standing orders," to folk who take orders from him for his people to stop fighting Q-cats for plexes.
"Juan Rayo > [06:30:13] Nicole Zierra > The stigma is on you, Qcats dont deserve full attention"
LOL! I LOVE IT! There isn't a system under Gall control. But our very efforts to get one back have so ****ed him off that he's whining about imaginary exploits and now trying to take his ball and bat and go home! From fighting hard for every known system to giving up completely all because we got under his skin. That's beautiful. It's like Ali whipping Foreman with his mind and the rope-a-dope. "Come on, Damar, I'm disappointed. I thought you could hit hard?" It's like the bully finally coming to an end of their ability to bully anyone and then declaring that they are the only enlightened pacifist in the room!
Hee hee. Thanks for demonstrating that truism, Damar. When we bother you this much, when you resort to such silly tactics, I know we are winning. Unless you've just become too afraid to fight Q-cats? Nah, that couldn't be it....
I'm still giggling....
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:17:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 25/08/2009 17:28:32
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 25/08/2009 17:27:22
 Originally by: Greg6
Unless you've just become too afraid to fight Q-cats? Nah, that couldn't be it....
We dont fight you in plexes because you just use the npc exploit. Go and say what you will, Amon Dei deliberately used the npc bug to have friendly npcs turn on our ships in Nennamaila.
As for fighting, if you insist on being stupid, I do kill you. Like yesterday. Passed couple of your frigs and gate, said you are not worth my ammo. So, you give chase with an ever growing blow so I decide to stop, give you a lesson and keep on going.
Of course the priceless bit here is that you had 20 strong gang coming from other direction and you still failed to catch me. I fight those gallentes who dont resort to exploits and give proper fights. Qcats have demonstrated theiy are not worth it.
Also, "standing order" was to be spread so you would do exactly this. Come whine on forums. Score one more for Caldari. Because, you did let it get under your skin. There has never been a militia order for this.
Damar Rocarion
Brigadier General
P.S: Missing one thrasher from related kills due to patch bug.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:55:00 -
[184]
Ah, Damar, I think you are a bit confused. Entertainingly so, even. :)
Those links don't go to any example of you fighting or killing me, nor other Q-cats. And a giggle at your silliness isn't the same as a whine. Furthermore, I'm not choking on your reply, despite your kind wishes that I do so in that private chat in game. Unless you count choking on laughter, that I am doing.
So keep on running from me and us Q-cat exploiters. Be assured we'll take advantage of every game mechanic we can to kick your ass when we can. And thanks for being such a fun opponent, the emo rages and foolishness on forum make it so much more fun.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:39:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 25/08/2009 18:42:43
Originally by: Greg6
Those links don't go to any example of you fighting or killing me, nor other Q-cats.
Well, here is the Nennamaila fight how it occurred before you managed to launch the exploit. Naturally the Ranis does not show your quality because your blob was unable to stop it dying.
PERVS dont want non-corpies cluttering their killboard but up to launching exploit you had killed Istvan Erbas and Adar0 and remaining caracals were happy enough to pound your ships at range and control the timer.
Does not of course show other 15 odd ships you had because....well...you failed to kill either me or BM 
Damar Rocarion
Brigadier General
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Sebastien LaForge
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:33:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Sebastien LaForge on 25/08/2009 19:34:00
I love these threads because you just *know* someone is lying or trying to save their battered ego through examples of exceptions to the opponents argument.
also hilarious when you get two jam cycles on a frig with a single light ECM drone and proceed to turn his ship into swiss cheese XD
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:36:00 -
[187]
Damar's standing orders are probably in place because well, he knows we'll get bored if we don't get any fights. TBH, it's probably a winning strategy.
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Sebastien LaForge
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:41:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Sebastien LaForge on 25/08/2009 19:41:18
Originally by: chatgris
Damar's standing orders are probably in place because well, he knows we'll get bored if we don't get any fights. TBH, it's probably a winning strategy.
It is, since god knows if they keep running from us for an hour, we'll eventually say **** it and jump our RR BS gang into their highsec and fight them there! I may have lost a battleship, but at least I enjoyed myself. :)
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:55:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 25/08/2009 19:55:54
Originally by: Sebastien LaForge
It is, since god knows if they keep running from us for an hour, we'll eventually say **** it
Worked well enough this morning. Frustrated enemy makes mistakes and lands smack down to our fleet without scouting and gets badly boned.
Meanwhile, I was happily fighting over plexes few jumps out with Genstar, proper non-exploiters, and having a good chat in local.
Also, if your exploit is non-existent, i've yet to heard good explanation why one of the Caldari ships lost in Nennamaila took 78% of damage from caldari npcs. That and nothing else is the issue. "Militia2" even boasts here that they will use every exploit in the book. So tell me again, is there a reason I should bother with lamers like you?
Damar Rocarion
Brigadier General
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Sebastien LaForge
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.25 20:09:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
So tell me again, is there a reason I should bother with lamers like you?
Wouldn't I have to tell you once, in order to then tell you again? Don't really give a **** about you, and I don't expect the same in return.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.08.25 20:30:00 -
[191]
Originally by: chatgris
Damar's standing orders are probably in place because well, he knows we'll get bored if we don't get any fights. TBH, it's probably a winning strategy.
Could be or it could be just what he says. He believes we intentionally got the rats in that plex to attack him and it got his panties in a wad. For myself I'm betting on the latter, given the invective he's spouting.
Damar there is no way to prove to you that we didn't even know it was possible to do so before that fight and like Seb, I don't care enough to try. Run or fight, what you do really doesn't matter to me beyond entertainment value. :)
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.25 22:45:00 -
[192]
Edited by: chatgris on 25/08/2009 22:50:23
Edited by: chatgris on 25/08/2009 22:45:33
Originally by: Greg6
Originally by: chatgris
Damar's standing orders are probably in place because well, he knows we'll get bored if we don't get any fights. TBH, it's probably a winning strategy.
Could be or it could be just what he says. He believes we intentionally got the rats in that plex to attack him and it got his panties in a wad. For myself I'm betting on the latter, given the invective he's spouting.
Damar there is no way to prove to you that we didn't even know it was possible to do so before that fight and like Seb, I don't care enough to try. Run or fight, what you do really doesn't matter to me beyond entertainment value. :)
This ^^. I wonder if this is going to be /thread? I can't believe it's still going.
Finally
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
We dont fight you in plexes because you just use the npc exploit.
For the sake of argument, lets say we do intentionally trigger the bug (which no-one I know does, see our general reply of "we didn't even know it existed", and we don't care enough to test further).
When Gallente whined about caldari NPC's, pervs posted a little quote along the lines of "Confirming that gallente are afraid of caldari NPC's". It's nothing you haven't been telling the gallente to deal with for a long long time.
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:01:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 25/08/2009 18:42:43
Originally by: Greg6
Those links don't go to any example of you fighting or killing me, nor other Q-cats.
Well, here is the Nennamaila fight how it occurred before you managed to launch the exploit. Naturally the Ranis does not show your quality because your blob was unable to stop it dying.
PERVS dont want non-corpies cluttering their killboard but up to launching exploit you had killed Istvan Erbas and Adar0 and remaining caracals were happy enough to pound your ships at range and control the timer.
Does not of course show other 15 odd ships you had because....well...you failed to kill either me or BM
Damar Rocarion
Brigadier General
And for those who want to see the complete picture.
Strangely, the Kill you keep going on about was the Second one in that fight and was also the ONLY kill in that engagement that had a Caldari NPC on it. Surely if an Exploit was really being used there would have been Multiple Caldari NPC's on every one of those Caldari Lossmails?
Interestingly, I did see a few Caldari Plexers out in Verge Vendor a Couple of days ago. I don't save my Chatlogs so I can't pull it up for people to see, however having one yell in Local that the other shouldn't be shooting the Friendly Rats was definately amusing.
Perhaps, in that case, the Kill in Nenna was less of an Exploit and more of an Inexperienced Caldari Pilot shooting at anything that was Red on his Overview because he hadn't set up his overview to not show Caldari NPC Rats in Plexes?
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Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.08.26 04:25:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 26/08/2009 04:30:53
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 26/08/2009 04:26:55
Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Perhaps, in that case, the Kill in Nenna was less of an Exploit and more of an Inexperienced Caldari Pilot shooting at anything that was Red on his Overview because he hadn't set up his overview to not show Caldari NPC Rats in Plexes?
Your failure to kill either me or BM of course removes the possibility of proving they also attacked us. Or do you think that with drop of a hat two brigadier generals would start shooting our own npcs*. Or that for some reason we would, outnumbered, remove our only advantage of range and warp back to 0 to be ganked by short range blaster boats?
That was the real effect your exploiting achieved and it's the reason we are still insulting each others in this thread.
Also, as said, anyone coming to die in Nennamaila long after me and BM told militia not to bother, had it coming. They were not in our gang and did not follow advice.
Damar Rocarion
Brigadier General
* Even if friendly had shot npcs while we were inside, the aggro does not switch to those who dont.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.08.26 09:47:00 -
[195]
Damar keeps using the word 'exploit' and must have received his official reply from CCP by now. Looks to me like he didn't like the answer he got so has decided to continue calling it an exploit and whine about it here.
The war goes on and Caldari die every day. Poor Damar is just upset because he thinks the war should end and there should be a big red surrender button that disolves the FDU.
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.26 12:40:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
That was the real effect your exploiting achieved and it's the reason we are still insulting each others in this thread.
My Exploiting? In all seriousness, this thread was the first I'd even heard of this Bug. It's not a Bug I've ever used, nor is it a Bug I ever intend to use. To be Frank, if we're going to be taking back any systems, then I'd rather that it was done completely within the Intended Mechanics (and not within the Loopholes left in those Mechanics ie This NPC Bug, the Positive Standings thing to prevent NPC's shooting you, the Timers still running when you warp out, etc). Using Exploits, announced or not, to do this would just cheapen those captures, in my eyes at least.
The likes of PERVS, The Cadre, the 22nd and many others got the warzone to the current state through one thing. Sheer Hard Work. Sure, there were people using exploits on both sides, but I'd say most of the guys out there when you took the Warzone did it Legitimately.
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Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
Jin Gle
Asgardreia
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Posted - 2009.08.26 13:45:00 -
[197]
For someone to be this serious about a failing, broken portion of an online game.. its quite amazing. You would almost think he had nothing else going on in life.
Anyway FW has been fun again lately. We only do corp fleets and we're a small corp. Now that some of the bigger forces have gone or are less active, we've been getting very good fights. I hope this trend will continue and that well see more smaller gangs roaming again. Ive noticed gallente getting some fresh blood and there seem to be some good corps among them.
Any Caldari willing to comment on their side of things? (actual info, no RP, 'the war' or plexing nonsense)
Jin o7
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.08.26 14:18:00 -
[198]
Yeah it's about time to /thread anyways. Let's find something more interesting to smack about.
Mexi Can!
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Annie Anomie
Gallente
Aenigmata
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:25:00 -
[199]
lolling at the calamari plexers afraid of Calamari NPCs.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:35:00 -
[200]
I'm getting ready to come back myself and having read through this I'm a little confused. I thought factional warfare was sort of like 0.0 lite, where, instead of having POS wars you do the plexing thing to gain/lose territory. Gaining territory = winning, losing territory = losing, no?
I understand that you gotta plex, but to me that's a lot like the fact that you gotta put up POSes and maintain them if you want to claim space in 0.0. So what's the deal with claiming to be "winning" based on a k/d ratio? Do I have the wrong idea about FW?
I get that you get to shoot folks without sec hits if you join the militia. You also get to shoot folks without sec hits if you fly out into 0.0, but that's not the same thing as being a factor in 0.0. Am I seeing this wrong?
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:43:00 -
[201]
The difference with 0.0 is you win space to bear in.
FW had no cashflow associated with it. In fact it's generally an ISK sink.
Now they've added LP but it sounds like you'll be able to earn those PVPing so it still doesn't seem like a win.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.26 18:28:00 -
[202]
Edited by: chatgris on 26/08/2009 18:29:19
Originally by: Davina Braben
The difference with 0.0 is you win space to bear in.
FW had no cashflow associated with it. In fact it's generally an ISK sink.
Now they've added LP but it sounds like you'll be able to earn those PVPing so it still doesn't seem like a win.
Actually, the LP added has nothing to do with plexes. The LP is earned with missions and kills, with a multiplier being that the higher ranked the person you kill, the more LP you get. So really, plexing gets you nothing material, unless you play with alts that run plexes for standings and cash in for the one time rewards.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2009.08.26 19:44:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Davina Braben
The difference with 0.0 is you win space to bear in.
FW had no cashflow associated with it. In fact it's generally an ISK sink.
Now they've added LP but it sounds like you'll be able to earn those PVPing so it still doesn't seem like a win.
Yeah, I really only ever saw FW as a "for fun only" game within the game. But as I understood it the object was still to "conquer" territory for your faction. It would be nice if there were some strong material incentives tied to it.
I haven't played in about a year. At one point weren't they talking about some kind of quasi-sov in low sec like being a governer or viceroy or something? Was that tied to FW somehow?
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:07:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 26/08/2009 23:09:23
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
I thought factional warfare was sort of like 0.0 lite, where, instead of having POS wars you do the plexing thing to gain/lose territory. Gaining territory = winning, losing territory = losing, no?
Am I seeing this wrong?
Yes, you are. In 0.0 if you lose sovereignty, it affects your access to the space. You lose your cyno jammers and capital building arrays, you lose your outposts, you can't dock and refit anywhere, can't store anything anywhere. Losing sov comes with severe consequences.
In FW, nothing of the sort happens. Gallente are free to dock in any Caldari-occupied system, and can put up POSes like they can in any other low sec system. Losing plexes and allowing occupation to flip to Caldari affected the FDU's ability to operate in Black Rise not one bit.
-- The crazy tree blooms at every moment of liberal ascendancy.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:25:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 26/08/2009 23:26:26
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Yes, you are. In 0.0 if you lose sovereignty, it affects your access to the space. You lose your cyno jammers and capital building arrays, you lose your outposts, you can't dock and refit anywhere, can't store anything anywhere. Losing sov comes with severe consequences.
That's kind of like saying if we're playing poker for chips instead of real money and I take all of yours, you didn't really lose, cause it wasn't real money, though, isn't it? If the objective of the game is to take the other guys chips, and you got all of yours taken, I'm pretty sure you lost.
About the best you can say is that you didn't take the game seriously because there wasn't enough at stake, but still...
If I remember right they debating for a while whether occupancy should effect docking rights, weren't they? I guess that went nowhere?
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:47:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
That's kind of like saying if we're playing poker for chips instead of real money and I take all of yours, you didn't really lose, cause it wasn't real money, though, isn't it? If the objective of the game is to take the other guys chips, and you got all of yours taken, I'm pretty sure you lost.
Yes but once you are out of chips your are meant to leave the table.. However in factional warfare, you can wait and wait and wait till you get a winning hand again.. and OH NO's your back in the game
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.27 02:35:00 -
[207]
Edited by: chatgris on 27/08/2009 02:35:50
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
That's kind of like saying if we're playing poker for chips instead of real money and I take all of yours, you didn't really lose, cause it wasn't real money, though, isn't it? If the objective of the game is to take the other guys chips, and you got all of yours taken, I'm pretty sure you lost.
I'd attempt a different analogy... It's like being at a party where people are playing poker for chips with no monetary value, and there also being strippers at the party. They deal you a hand, you choose to interact with the strippers instead, and they take your chips by default.
This is written from the perspective of someone who really hates plexing. If it's your cup of tea, I don't wish to belittle it. Apparently for those who have more than one account, it can be a good money-making venture as well.
But back to your analogy... fw has more than just plexing to it. Missions that actually pay good LP now. A fair number of targets who actually joined to pvp instead of deccing some indy corp for fights. (Sure, some joined just for system occupancy as well, but it's still better than deccing random corps in empire). Participation in all parts of fw is currently voluntary, so people make of it what they will, and participate in the parts they enjoy.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:29:00 -
[208]
And I'd adjust the analogy yet again. It's as if two opposing football teams attended a poker party. The chips used had some monetary value but Team A said it wasn't enough and so refused to play, in any organized way. Furthermore Team A isn't happy with the kind of cards used, nor the size of the chips themselves. Some folk in Team A would sit at the poker table for a bit, but eventually Team A lost all it's chips. Then, Team B started saying "We won," because they had all the chips and Team A starts saying, "Ah, those chips weren't worth enough to bother with. We don't care that you got 'em all. It's a party after all. We can drink more than Team B and have more fun so we won. And besides, poker is boring."
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.08.27 19:52:00 -
[209]
You've got it wrong, it's not like a poker game. It's like a drinking game.
You lose a hand (system) you take a drink (pvp). When someone else has been messing with you all night, and you have the chance, you make them take a drink (pvp). Of course the hands (systems) are just a means to get drunk (pvp) so they mean little in and of themselves. And the whole time people are drinking (pvping) when they don't 'have' to anyways. Like the older kids at the party who are laughing at the people who need a reason to drink (pvp). Everyone ends up drunk (pvp \o/) anyways.
You can't lose FW, you can't 'lose' a drinking game.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:23:00 -
[210]
I officially jump off the analogy train. This is getting crazy :)
I'm going back to "it's a sandbox, you can choose to participate in what you want to". Though it's not like this hasn't all been said elsewhere, many many times, far more eloquently, and with far more passion.
* chatgris wanders off to let this thread die, unless something really really juicy comes along
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