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Cadde
Gallente
FireworX
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Posted - 2009.08.31 01:52:00 -
[91]
Without digging deep into why or what would happen if one of my following proposals where to be put into effect, here is what i think should/could be done...
OPTION A - Remove the BPO's
While this seems harsh on the BPO owners it is the one option that can be as fair as possible for all parties, it could/should be done with care for all sides using one of the following methods.
- Option 1 - The BPO owner receives the isk from "GOD" that he initially invested in the BPO.
- Option 2 - The BPO's become useless and can be kept by collectors or traded to NPC's at a set price.
- Option 3 - The BPO's are gradually removed by turning them into copies of the original
While any of these options affect the BPO owners directly they all give the owner a return.
The first option is the one that requires the most work by CCP and would increase the total amount of ISK in eve in an instant. Deflation is a bad thing for all of eve's population but this could be done in line with a insurance reform of ships used in unlawful acts and empire/0.0 wars. (While giving 0.0 production a boost)
The same applies to the second option where deflation would occur when the BPO owners sell to the NPC's.
But CCP have already mentioned that they want to adjust the insurance system making it possible to balance this change out and then release another influx of ISK into the game. (Raised bounties on belt and plex rats in Low-sec / 0.0 maybe?)
And finally, if the third option is taken then the market would be given time to adjust to the inevitable loss of good ME/PE copies. The owners can decide if they wanna build or sell their copies for profit and the number of copies should outlast the investment under normal circumstances.
As copies become more rare, collectors might want them for a huge sum as well. As with old currency.
OPTION B - Seed the market with BPO's
This is, in my opinion, a bad option based on the fact we have an entire game mechanic based on invention with days, weeks and months put into training for the same. While at the same time hurting the original BPO owners investments because of the inevitable flood of BPO's that will enter circulation putting profit margins at it's bare minimum. No 100+ billion investment will ever be regained through this change. Nor will inventors be pleased even if new items that can be invented where to be released, not to mention, what would those items be? After all, almost every possible role is currently covered by the T1/T2 items.
Nuff said!
OPTION C - Grow T3, release T4, T5, T6, T-bone
This might sound really stupid at first and it probably is too. But one way or another every eve player will have gotten to the point where they say: "Been there, done that"
What does the future hold for them?
If CCP where to speed up content release and replace the current T2 items with stronger, faster more versatile ships, modules and so on then what's the point in having T2 at all?
At the time of writing one can decide, after training cruiser 5, to train for T2 or bypass it and train navigation 5 (what else?) and go straight for T3. The main difference here is the amount of ISK required but lets face it, some ships are simply too cool to be put on hold.
FINAL WORDS
Whatever CCP decide to do with the T2 BPO's, i feel that if they do something it's way better than doing nothing.
Ever since i learned that T2 BPO's where "out of my reach" I've been disgusted at the T2 BPO's, it just doesn't sit right with new people who missed the lottery days and are left to "compete" with the ones who already made their billions and still dictate prices with blueprints they are very unlikely to sell. I am talking about those that simply are too good to be sold, ever...
The others that are sold are simply too expensive for about 99% of all players.
No matter what, the change will have a ripple effect in eve. But what change doesn't do that, CCP did the speed nerf right?
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.08.31 06:15:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Agallis Zinthros
Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar
I got screwed with the Rigs,
I have stack of 'LARGE' BPO's that are researched and are useless now because no one uses them on BS's.
Wait, what? Noone uses large rigs anymore? I'm a fleet commander and last time I checked 75% of my men(and my enemies) fly rigged BSes. Why don't you fact check before you post?
He didn't say that no-one uses any large rigs anymore, he said that he had BPOs for rigs that no one uses on BSs.
I have two of these...
The Large Gravity Capacitor Upgrade market is tiny - pre patch Jita moved a couple of hundred/day, post patch Jita moves about 25 because nearly all of the demand is for small rigs for covert ops frigates. This market is essentially dead given how many people have the bpo's and how low the demand is.
The Large Cargohold Optimization market has dropped from about 400/day to about 100, and is still falling. Most of these rigs are used on medium ships (industrials, deep space transports). There's still some life in this market, but it has tanked pretty hard.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.08.31 06:28:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Cadde
OPTION C - Grow T3, release T4, T5, T6, T-bone
This might sound really stupid at first and it probably is too. But one way or another every eve player will have gotten to the point where they say: "Been there, done that"
What does the future hold for them?
If CCP where to speed up content release and replace the current T2 items with stronger, faster more versatile ships, modules and so on then what's the point in having T2 at all?
This isn't stupid, this is the standard 'mudflation' scenario. Developers create new content. In order to entice players in (to justify the development effort) they have to give a reward to compensate for the risk. The standard reward is more powerful items. Most MMO's take this approach (e.g. WoW's first exapnsion used massive item inflation to correct huge player power imbalances between the raiders and everyone else.) Arguably the introduction of T3 is CCP attempting to do just this, if the T3 ships were battleships of comparable abilities to the T3 cruisers then the game would be changing very, very quickly imho.
I think you omitted Option D which is to leave the BPOs as they are but indirectly nerf them by boosting invention.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.31 06:57:00 -
[94]
Option E: increase the supply of moongold
With greater material supply, the comparative advantage of a BPO drops in two ways; first the difference in the relative cost of production will fall. Second, the total volume of production will increase so that a smaller share can be produced from BPOs.
Also one might note that "56% of all T2 ships" is a naive statistic; not all T2 ships are equal.
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.08.31 07:58:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Celia Therone
Originally by: Agallis Zinthros
Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar
I got screwed with the Rigs,
I have stack of 'LARGE' BPO's that are researched and are useless now because no one uses them on BS's.
Wait, what? Noone uses large rigs anymore? I'm a fleet commander and last time I checked 75% of my men(and my enemies) fly rigged BSes. Why don't you fact check before you post?
He didn't say that no-one uses any large rigs anymore, he said that he had BPOs for rigs that no one uses on BSs.
I have two of these...
The Large Gravity Capacitor Upgrade market is tiny - pre patch Jita moved a couple of hundred/day, post patch Jita moves about 25 because nearly all of the demand is for small rigs for covert ops frigates. This market is essentially dead given how many people have the bpo's and how low the demand is.
The Large Cargohold Optimization market has dropped from about 400/day to about 100, and is still falling. Most of these rigs are used on medium ships (industrials, deep space transports). There's still some life in this market, but it has tanked pretty hard.
Post of the thread.
So as an avid forum watcher and heading into autumn we see our two distinctive parties in this thread:
T2 BPO owners
non-T2 BPO owners.
The T2 BPO owners are a very small minority of the playerbase that are accounting for a large chunk of the market. It is not hard to see why they are so anti-change.
Everyone else (regardless of how many times the other parts of the equation are explained) just feels shafted by the whole existence of T2 BPOs.
For myself this rig post says it all: here is an arbitrary across-the-board move on BPOs that cost many pilots lots of ISK, but needed doing for the advancement of the game. The position of T2 BPOs is EXACTLY the same and should be dealt with in the exact same manner.
If we lose maybe what? 50 players? To emo-rage-quit then so be it. Invention should not be the half-arsed implementation it is today, it needs to be all or nothing.
RB
+
LDS @ Bclnc
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.31 08:42:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Post of the thread.
So as an avid forum watcher and heading into autumn we see our two distinctive parties in this thread:
T2 BPO owners
non-T2 BPO owners.
The T2 BPO owners are a very small minority of the playerbase that are accounting for a large chunk of the market. It is not hard to see why they are so anti-change.
Everyone else (regardless of how many times the other parts of the equation are explained) just feels shafted by the whole existence of T2 BPOs.
For myself this rig post says it all: here is an arbitrary across-the-board move on BPOs that cost many pilots lots of ISK, but needed doing for the advancement of the game. The position of T2 BPOs is EXACTLY the same and should be dealt with in the exact same manner.
If we lose maybe what? 50 players? To emo-rage-quit then so be it. Invention should not be the half-arsed implementation it is today, it needs to be all or nothing.
RB
For the hundredth time: T2 BPOs are not what are keeping invention margins low.
You "feel" that it's "unfair" that T2 BPO owners have a comparative advantage, but if all T2 BPOs disappeared tomorrow you wouldn't make any more profit. You'd still make minimal margins because you're competing against all the other inventors. If any ship or module did have a better margin, then inventors would use their flexibility advantage and invent more of it until the margins normalised.(Ask the guys making HICs and Marauders if they're making super-awesome ISK)
Meanwhile, the moon owners will continue creaming off 95% of the net profit from T2 production because they control the limiting factor of production.
If you want to boost invention margins, campaign for alternate sources of moongoo. If you are just butt-hurt because someone else is getting a comparative advantage over you after investing billions to get it, then carry on posting your "feelings".
Disclaimer: I do not own any BPOs.
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Chantilly Layce
Proper Villains
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Posted - 2009.08.31 11:39:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Malcanis
If you want to boost invention margins, campaign for alternate sources of moongoo.
This, 110%.
Moon minerals as "loot" drops in 0.0/Low Sec rat spawns, in complexes and in Level 4 missions, is long overdue.
I once suggested that idea to the illustrious CSM... 
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.08.31 11:50:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Everyone else (regardless of how many times the other parts of the equation are explained) just feels shafted by the whole existence of T2 BPOs
For the hundredth time: T2 BPOs are not what are keeping invention margins low....
you must have missed the bracketed part of my quote.
and frankly it doesnt change the fact that if CCP feel they can do it to rig BPO owners then they can do it to t2 BPO owners, there is no difference.
+
LDS @ Bclnc
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.08.31 12:01:00 -
[99]
Quote:
FINAL WORDS
Whatever CCP decide to do with the T2 BPO's, i feel that if they do something it's way better than doing nothing.
Ever since i learned that T2 BPO's where "out of my reach" I've been disgusted at the T2 BPO's, it just doesn't sit right with new people who missed the lottery days and are left to "compete" with the ones who already made their billions and still dictate prices with blueprints they are very unlikely to sell. I am talking about those that simply are too good to be sold, ever...
The others that are sold are simply too expensive for about 99% of all players.
No matter what, the change will have a ripple effect in eve. But what change doesn't do that, CCP did the speed nerf right?
Wrong 1: adding tiers and tiers of new stuff makes EvE into a sad clone of WoW, where items >>>>>>>>>>>> player.
EvE has the rare property of being more player skill based than "stats" driven, if we kill this factor, we kill an important if not fundamental part of EvE.
Wrong 2 (partial more than wrong): you notice BPOs as "disgusting"? There were MANY worse and more way to allow for early player to get trillions and you will NEVER stand a chance to compete because all those features were nerfed or removed.
Quote:
Option E: increase the supply of moongold
With greater material supply, the comparative advantage of a BPO drops in two ways; first the difference in the relative cost of production will fall. Second, the total volume of production will increase so that a smaller share can be produced from BPOs.
Also one might note that "56% of all T2 ships" is a naive statistic; not all T2 ships are equal.
This will leave BPO owners individually untouched as only the global BPO production will be relatively lower than before.
But this will harm inventors individually because by reducing moon costs you widen the market and this results in further earnings erosion due to bigger competition.
Furthermore, increasing the market leads to an increase of datacores price, something affecting inventors more than BPO owners, with lower base costs and thus more buffer.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.31 12:59:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Quote:
Option E: increase the supply of moongold
With greater material supply, the comparative advantage of a BPO drops in two ways; first the difference in the relative cost of production will fall. Second, the total volume of production will increase so that a smaller share can be produced from BPOs.
Also one might note that "56% of all T2 ships" is a naive statistic; not all T2 ships are equal.
This will leave BPO owners individually untouched as only the global BPO production will be relatively lower than before.
But this will harm inventors individually because by reducing moon costs you widen the market and this results in further earnings erosion due to bigger competition.
Furthermore, increasing the market leads to an increase of datacores price, something affecting inventors more than BPO owners, with lower base costs and thus more buffer.
It will reduce the comparative advantage of the BPO owner because material efficiency will matter less. And it will increase the inventor's total volume because BPOs can only supply a finite number of units; any demand after this must be supplied by inventors.
Your point about datacores is well taken, but at least production of these can be scaled up. But at the moment, moongoo is the limiting factor for T2 ship production.
At the end of the day, the ultimate point remains: Invention margins are decided by inventors competing with each other. If CCP changed $X and nerfed $Y and removed $Z such that Invention profits tripled, then immediately more players would get into invention, and inventors would focus more on invention. After a short period of boosted profits, those margins would normalise.
Anyone who believes that if CCP removes BPOs then inventors will then be significantly better off is simply deluding themselves. That would only work if there was an entry barrier to invention comparable to obtaining a T2 BPO in the first place. As long as it only takes a few hundred million ISK and a few hundred thousand SP, invention can never escape this basic limitation.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.08.31 13:30:00 -
[101]
I can't read the mycroscopic text but afaik inventors have one huge enemy: themselves.
Until the "datacores are free" tards won't die, nothing can be done about prices. And you know they won't die, not enough.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.31 15:15:00 -
[102]
As a pure consumer of T2, I am all in favour of said 'tards!
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Cadde
Gallente
FireworX
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Posted - 2009.09.01 11:27:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Cadde on 01/09/2009 11:27:26
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Cadde
stuff
Wrong 1: adding tiers and tiers of new stuff makes EvE into a sad clone of WoW, where items >>>>>>>>>>>> player.
EvE has the rare property of being more player skill based than "stats" driven, if we kill this factor, we kill an important if not fundamental part of EvE.
I don't see how what you say has any relevance with what you just quoted, furthermore WoW is so focused on items because the player is static and has a linear leveling system, much like EvE but very different.
In EvE you get into a ship and then fit the ship with items. Each ship has it's advantages and disadvantages and so does the equipment you fit to it. As opposed to WoW where you equip a nberswordofhelldeath no matter what other equipment you have. There is no fitting limitations beyond the required skills and strength/agility.
Most importantly of all, a ship can be blown to hell with the loss of your rigs (If you have them) and depending on the situation, all your fitted equipment... did i say you lose you ship?
After all that, you can even lose your clone with all it's implants and if your clone isn't insured you can eve lose training. (In the case of T3, this is even a "guarantee")
That is what differentiates EvE from WoW. That is one reason why EvE > WoW hands down for me.
As for player skill vs game bonuses i will have to disagree to an extent, both games require some sort of skill, it's just that EvE does that ten times better++ than WoW because of it's versatility vs limitations and benefits vs disadvantages.
In the end though, if both players engaging each other have equal skills (that is, they fly and fight just as well in eve) but one of them have gunnery/missile skills all at level 3 while the other has specialization all at level 5. The outcome is quite obvious!
Even though their IRL mouse and keyboard skills and experience is a perfect match, the difference in avatar strength is enough for the more in-game skilled capsuleer to wtfpwn the other.
Eve has the rare property to balance this out with each branch being just as good and be very adept at countering it's opposite. (Damage dealing vs Tanking, Production vs Marketing, Exploration vs Mining)
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Wrong 2 (partial more than wrong): you notice BPOs as "disgusting"? There were MANY worse and more way to allow for early player to get trillions and you will NEVER stand a chance to compete because all those features were nerfed or removed.
The big difference here is, what you mention has long been nerfed or removed. T2 BPO's hasn't. They are still there and even if they aren't affecting the market in a bad way, they still rub people the wrong way because they are inaccessible to most players.
Looking at it from my perspective... (Which is not what i do all the time)
I feel it is easier for me to build an empire to strike down on the moongoo alliance(s) and take their resources than it is to obtain the ultra rare T2 BPO that has a profit margin of 100 mil per produced item.
Not that i think it would be easy at all to overrun a moongoo alliance since they probably have everything and i started with nothing, but with enough hard work it CAN be done. Alliances can be infiltrated, others can be turned against them, brute force with the element of surprise can be employed.
But no matter what i do (barring hacking the BPO owners account) will get me that BPO.
The feeling I get when you learn that T2 BPO's aren't seeded anymore but still exist in the game is that of pure disgust of the whole thing.
It's easy to say i should have joined eve back in 2003, now i didn't do that but i still wanna be able to do the same things as everybody else... SOME DAY.
But i can't, because these items are LOCKED down. I could even go as far as comparing a T2 BPO owner to what a GM has, except GM's don't play the game (normally) with their GM chars. They can go to JOVE space, i don't mind. It doesn't affect my game one bit!
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Leowen
Industrial Giants
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Posted - 2009.09.01 11:57:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Leowen on 01/09/2009 11:58:31
Posting in YART2BPOT.
Isn't it amazing how these are just as interesting now as they were when they started being posted about 4 years ago? Incredible...
EDIT: You have me so worried, I think I might actually go sell another one of mine. Now which container did I leave those dusty old things in?...
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:58:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Cadde
Looking at it from my perspective... (Which is not what i do all the time)
I feel it is easier for me to build an empire to strike down on the moongoo alliance(s) and take their resources than it is to obtain the ultra rare T2 BPO that has a profit margin of 100 mil per produced item.
Not that i think it would be easy at all to overrun a moongoo alliance since they probably have everything and i started with nothing, but with enough hard work it CAN be done. Alliances can be infiltrated, others can be turned against them, brute force with the element of surprise can be employed.
But no matter what i do (barring hacking the BPO owners account) will get me that BPO.
The feeling I get when you learn that T2 BPO's aren't seeded anymore but still exist in the game is that of pure disgust of the whole thing.
It's easy to say i should have joined eve back in 2003, now i didn't do that but i still wanna be able to do the same things as everybody else... SOME DAY. [\quote]
I think this one expresses my opinion on T2 BPO's in clearer terms than my own ramblings about them. They just rub me in a wrong way. They will do that even if I do not invent by just being out there.
It is unfortunate that some people have invested a huge amounts of isk in them, but that's the risk they took with those investments seeing as in 5 years they would need to produce off them to 'break even' EVE would have 10 major expansions. That is like from 2003 to today.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:59:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Cadde
Looking at it from my perspective... (Which is not what i do all the time)
I feel it is easier for me to build an empire to strike down on the moongoo alliance(s) and take their resources than it is to obtain the ultra rare T2 BPO that has a profit margin of 100 mil per produced item.
Not that i think it would be easy at all to overrun a moongoo alliance since they probably have everything and i started with nothing, but with enough hard work it CAN be done. Alliances can be infiltrated, others can be turned against them, brute force with the element of surprise can be employed.
But no matter what i do (barring hacking the BPO owners account) will get me that BPO.
The feeling I get when you learn that T2 BPO's aren't seeded anymore but still exist in the game is that of pure disgust of the whole thing.
It's easy to say i should have joined eve back in 2003, now i didn't do that but i still wanna be able to do the same things as everybody else... SOME DAY.
I think this one expresses my opinion on T2 BPO's in clearer terms than my own ramblings about them. They just rub me in a wrong way. They will do that even if I do not invent by just being out there.
It is unfortunate that some people have invested a huge amounts of isk in them, but that's the risk they took with those investments seeing as in 5 years they would need to produce off them to 'break even' EVE would have 10 major expansions. That is like from 2003 to today.
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.09.02 06:10:00 -
[107]
No need to remove T2 BPO, just make invention have a higher ME with proper decryptors and add more dyspro.
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:18:00 -
[108]
wooaah there, nearly fallen down to page 3, we cant be having that can we?
55% of ALL T2 goods produced are from BPOs?
or just ships?
+
LDS @ Bclnc
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Tekota
legion industries ltd
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:44:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
wooaah there, nearly fallen down to page 3, we cant be having that can we?
55% of ALL T2 goods produced are from BPOs?
or just ships?
Full figures are in the QEN - http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=686 - the section starting at page 31 is what you're after. Wealth of figures in there and, as this thread has proved, the statistics contained within can be used as evidence to back any argument - even competing sides of the same argument.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.09.03 12:03:00 -
[110]
Replace all T2 BPO with a few maxrun BPC each and get it over with.
This whole discussion goes as far back as when I joined the game about 3 years ago, when the Lottery was coming to an end and invention was introduced.
Of course the BPO owners are adamantly against it and use all sorts of excuses, trying to explain away their advantages - they are on a gravytrain, what do you expect from them.
By now they have had 3 years to transition from BPO to BPC, but CCP has kept shying away from doing it. It smells badly of fear.
But fear of what really? The BPO holders have had 3 years of extra cake to get fat on, that is not just being nice and fair, that is brownnosing and bribery on a level you would expect from cowards.
Or is it fear of something else? I hope we do not really need to put on the old conspiracy hats and begin making suggestions about some employees having selfserving agendas in the alliance games.
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Cathy McSales
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Posted - 2009.09.03 13:56:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Lots of nonsense
No need to change anything. The system works as I believe CCP intended.
The invention system and the T2 BPOs complement each other beautifully. Each serve a role to ensure competition and availability on all products - even the most unpopular. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.09.03 15:14:00 -
[112]
I don't see a real salvific power of BPOs for those unpopular (read: crap) modules ships.
BPOs poison the regular course of the game so that bad modules don't go down in flames as they should do and thus CCP won't review them to make them good enough to be worth buying. This is actually negative in the grand economy of the game and imho it's an argument *against* BPOs more than one *for* them.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
0racle
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2009.09.03 16:53:00 -
[113]
OP Didnt post Proof
OP Hasn't said anything after his original post
You're all being trolled.
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Afrodita B
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Posted - 2009.09.04 15:52:00 -
[114]
I think BPOs should just disapear and BPO owners should be refunded with the research points they spent to get the bpos.
So people who won BPOs and have been enjoying them for a long time would get the research points back to buy all the datacores they want.
Some people might rage quit. Especially the ones who never really got proper industrial and trading skills but they ended up with a BPO or by luck or a devils pact. They will suffer since invention is way fairer.
Honestly I coudnt care less. What about the people that has been put off because the system is not fair?
The ones that got a fortune without needing T2 BPOs and bought them from the market. They will be all right unles the T2 BPOs made them lazy. But I doubt so.
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Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.04 16:27:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 04/09/2009 16:27:49
Originally by: Cadde
Deflation is a bad thing for all of eve's population but this could be done in line with a insurance reform of ships used in unlawful acts and empire/0.0 wars.
short digression: anyone care to explain why deflation is so bad in-game? is it worse than inflation? why?
(mission runners have fixed/sticky wages, but the usual RL arguments obviously don't apply, so it has to be some gameplay reason [?] ...)
EDIT: fixed quotation
" Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. " |
Jitabug
Caldari
Viva POS Pinata
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:43:00 -
[116]
MMO lore is full of items that were hard or near impossible to obtain. It would be much poorer if those items did not exist, for they fuel intrigue, betrayl, passion abd canmradarie. I do not own a T2 BPO, but I aspire to have one. Obtaining a T2 BPO is a huge part of the industrialist "end game" in EVE at the moment for a lot of people. When you casually talk about throwing away T2 BPOs, you're talking about removing a shedload of people's endgame. For what? Some tiny advantage it gives the holders? So what, they're not "soulbound".
You have methods of obtaining T2 BPOs if you care that much. This isn't the kind of world that does "resets" and any time it does retcons gameplay it cheapens itself. The chances of you getting your hands on a tournament battleship or the Opus Luxury Yacht are negligible. They are the next logical things to remove. Then what? Improve the drop rates of officer mods because you don't get to have those?
Stay off the slippery slope of fail. And learn maths and the markets, sneckheads.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:34:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Jitabug
MMO lore is full of items that were hard or near impossible to obtain. It would be much poorer if those items did not exist, for they fuel intrigue, betrayl, passion abd canmradarie. I do not own a T2 BPO, but I aspire to have one. Obtaining a T2 BPO is a huge part of the industrialist "end game" in EVE at the moment for a lot of people. When you casually talk about throwing away T2 BPOs, you're talking about removing a shedload of people's endgame. For what? Some tiny advantage it gives the holders? So what, they're not "soulbound".
You have methods of obtaining T2 BPOs if you care that much. This isn't the kind of world that does "resets" and any time it does retcons gameplay it cheapens itself. The chances of you getting your hands on a tournament battleship or the Opus Luxury Yacht are negligible. They are the next logical things to remove. Then what? Improve the drop rates of officer mods because you don't get to have those?
Stay off the slippery slope of fail. And learn maths and the markets, sneckheads.
We already have Ravens State Issue and other unique ships. That is enough for rare unreacheable items.
T2 bpos currently serve nothing of positive. It is past time to take them out. In the process please make invention produce ME 0 bpcs whithout decriptors (from -4) and we will have an automatic decrease in ship costs overall and a smaller problems regarding advanced materials.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:48:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I don't see a real salvific power of BPOs for those unpopular (read: crap) modules ships.
BPOs poison the regular course of the game so that bad modules don't go down in flames as they should do and thus CCP won't review them to make them good enough to be worth buying. This is actually negative in the grand economy of the game and imho it's an argument *against* BPOs more than one *for* them.
that's a pretty weak argument.
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Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:42:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 05/09/2009 02:42:49
Originally by: Whambulance Crowd
Blah ...Blah ...Blah ...Blah Blah.. ---- T2 BPO... Nerf... Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...unfair... Blah, Blah, Blah... whaaaaaaaa!!!!
Ok that sums up all the noobins wannabe communists who want to take away my hard earned BPOs. I say bite me. If you want them, then do what I did, EARN ENOUGH ISK USING YOUR F-ING BRAINS God Gave YOU them brains for a reason - and BUY THE DAMNED BPOs. EVE is NOT A FAIR GAME, EVE has the HAVEs and the HAVENOTs. But, nothing stopping a player from earning ISK by their wits and ingenuity, and entering into a T2 BPO market, and making 2-5% Return on the billions upon billions of investments.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.05 06:36:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Afrodita B
I think BPOs should just disapear and BPO owners should be refunded with the research points they spent to get the bpos.
So people who won BPOs and have been enjoying them for a long time would get the research points back to buy all the datacores they want.
An those that have brought the BPO?
They should get nothing?
What the expended?
Originally by: Afrodita B
The ones that got a fortune without needing T2 BPOs and bought them from the market. They will be all right unles the T2 BPOs made them lazy. But I doubt so.
So your solution for those that brought the BPO is "you were already capable of gathering the isk, do it again?"
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