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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.23 11:25:00 -
[31]
1. Are you a mechanical engineer? If not, I'd get someone who actually knows a thing or two about structural design, or start reading.
2. You had better have some pretty decent FEA software, like COSMOS (as an example) to do design iterations with before you actually build anything. If you don't know what FEA is, google it.
3. Start small and build a small working prototype before you blow tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on something that will break.
4. Realize that you could easily kill yourself or others if you make a mistake.
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
Splinter Foundation
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Posted - 2009.08.23 11:33:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Jacharian
This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
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Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.08.23 11:35:00 -
[33]
I agree with Bell, get an expert in structural design to have a look over it. Also i'm hope you're prepared to spend around ú240,000.. especially in times like these, other than that, good luck.
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T'san Manaan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.23 11:46:00 -
[34]
what's her draft, LWL and beam length?
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:17:00 -
[35]
Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 23/08/2009 12:19:27
Originally by: Leviathan9
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/08/2009 11:37:09
I agree with Bell, get an expert in structural design to have a look over it. Also i'm hope you're prepared to spend around ú240,000.. especially in times like these, other than that, good luck. Oh and most important is definately build a scaled prototype, you need to need to see if a smaller version would actually float.. If you don't build a prototype, you're a mad man.
um read the first post before you post something please.
"All in all I think it will cost about $400,000.00 USD"
Also other post's of mine I have stated that I use simulation software to test my ideas, take the time to read the posts, skimming is fine and all but you skipped some stuff that I had already mentioned about pre-testing.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:22:00 -
[36]
And yes I will be making a prototype to be used in a testing facility, I figure a scaled model about 14'x4'x3' should do fine.
I will work on the small details, remember I have some time to get this right, 4 years of prototype's should do some good and maybe 10 more to actually construct it.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
1. Are you a mechanical engineer? If not, I'd get someone who actually knows a thing or two about structural design, or start reading.
2. You had better have some pretty decent FEA software, like COSMOS (as an example) to do design iterations with before you actually build anything. If you don't know what FEA is, google it.
3. Start small and build a small working prototype before you blow tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on something that will break.
4. Realize that you could easily kill yourself or others if you make a mistake.
Most of my family are in the Navy, some as engineering, others in Intel & a few work as flight deck crew. The one's that will come in handy is one of my uncle's, he's a CEC Officer, his main job is testing the structural designs of some of the Navy's warships so if all else fails I can always count on him.
Other methods, hrmm I have made a lot of friends in EvE and in the Army that work for design firms & metal fabrication plants so if nothing else I could ask for help from them as well.
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Sivajini
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:32:00 -
[38]
lol thats one funny crazy project and i kinda like it tho i never would spend so much cash (400thousand dollars?!) on personal things like this. i think theres other more intelligent ways to get happy with da money. by for example sharing.
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Andrea Erlang
Caldari
Erlang Biolabs
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:33:00 -
[39]
Good luck. I'm sure I speak for all of us, if you can setup a blog that'll detail the construction with pictures and commentary of course. 
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:34:00 -
[40]
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
Not sure which forum section this goes in but it pertain to EvE in one way, the Rokh... sorta
So I had this crazy idea some years back, "I wanna make a irl Rokh yacht. Thus began the plans for making blueprints, checking prices of steel and aluminum by the tonne, getting a quote for a C-105 gas turbine from the AMARC Tucson, AZ scrapyard for propulsion. All in all I think it will cost about $400,000.00 USD, Steel is about $240 per tonne and aluminum is around $1893 per tonne on yesterdays UK stock exchange.
I will save about 3-4m by not having the aesthetic features of most yachts like gold plated everything lol. the blue prints are being finalized right now, I'm using Auto-CAD to make them and another 3D imaging program. I'm technically a noob at this stuff, my family thinks I'm crazy, my grandpa is the only one that thinks it will float so long as I use a schooner type stabilizer fin on the bottom to minimize the chance of capsizing & using ballast tanks in between the outer 1/4" steel plating on the bottom and the inner aluminum infrastructure also while using steel for the initial frame and bulkheads.
The end game issue is money, as such I don't plan on this project being done for at least 10-15 years down the road from now as I'm the only one who will be working on it so far unless I find like minded people who wanna have a go at it ha ha but that is some what unlikely. But the Rokh is really a very simple design to work with, it is essentially a bunch of Right angles that make up a bulk of the ships design so I don't think it is impossible to build nor a waste of money really if it has a practical use.
Can people please give me idea/opinions? ~puts on flame ******ant suit~ ok I am also ready for flames.
Opinions are accepted by both players and CCP, who knows maybe some time down the road it could be used to make a voyage to EvE Fan fest assuming the game is still around in 10-15 years ha ha.
Thanks for your time.
man set a web site put on the web site the progression
if u can proof that this is awesome i donate 100$ for the project
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
EvE FTW |
Per Bastet
Amarr
B.O.O.M
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:48:00 -
[41]
And Of Course Once It's Built You can Charge Eve Fans to Go for Rides on it, I know a Cruise would be Awesome in a Eve Themed Boat. Don't make this a Yacht make it a Small Cruise Ship you will make a Mint.
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Bastet's Organization Of Mining |
Captian Conrad
Minmatar
Empyrean Warriors
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: ceaon
man set a web site put on the web site the progression
if u can proof that this is awesome i donate 100$ for the project
Agreed a blog+donation button would be great 
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
1. Are you a mechanical engineer? If not, I'd get someone who actually knows a thing or two about structural design, or start reading.
2. You had better have some pretty decent FEA software, like COSMOS (as an example) to do design iterations with before you actually build anything. If you don't know what FEA is, google it.
3. Start small and build a small working prototype before you blow tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on something that will break.
4. Realize that you could easily kill yourself or others if you make a mistake.
Most of my family are in the Navy, some as engineering, others in Intel & a few work as flight deck crew. The one's that will come in handy is one of my uncle's, he's a CEC Officer, his main job is testing the structural designs of some of the Navy's warships so if all else fails I can always count on him.
Other methods, hrmm I have made a lot of friends in EvE and in the Army that work for design firms & metal fabrication plants so if nothing else I could ask for help from them as well.
Well there you go then.
Also, I might suggest trying to model it while using composites for materials. It might be lighter, less expensive, and easier to build than an aluminum/steel structure.
I've done a lot of design work for large scale composite structures in the past (airfoils for windmill generators as an example) and I think you'd be surprised what you can accomplish with a little bit of fiberglass and some injectable foam.
Welding aluminum (correctly) particularly for marine applications, is extremely difficult and expensive. You could always try bonding (gluing) the aluminum however. Make sure you take into account your fastening methods when doing your FEA and what not.
If I were doing the project, I'd probably take a look at how people are currently building similar sized boats and research their construction techniques. It sounds to me like you're looking at large warship construction techniques and then trying to apply that to a smaller size boat. Also, warships and civilian craft have completely different requirements from an operational standpoint, so I'd look closely at the civilian designs first, as they're probably more applicable.
Looking at construction principles of the current bunch of racing yachts (America's Cup etc.) might also lend some design and construction insight. You could always take their 10/10ths tech and scale it back to something more economical.
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: T'san Manaan
what's her draft, LWL and beam length?
The length of waterline, I think having something as long as I want it should help to maintain stability for it's odd shape, but anyways LWL 200ft+/- it really depends on where this will be at in the next few years really.
The draft is a tricky one, due to it's odd shape being most right angles the bottom would have to be changed a bit so that it will cause displacement in the water other wise even if it had a stabilizing fin on the bottom it would still capsize.
On the top it will be a Rokh but under the waterline it will have some slight modifications. really it's like taking the base hull of an FF or DD and adding a box frame on the top of it, but in the end it's hard to say how much of it will be under the waterline until I get the prototype built to a correct scale of the ship and have it taken to the testing facility.
As far as Beam goes do you want BOA or BWL, either way the underside of the ship is going to be a bit different than a regular Rokh, if you try to make one as it is it would be top heavy so you couldn't get it to go very fast for fear of falling to either side. So to fix that it basically will be the full of a similar sized ship on the underside while having the same topside look of the Rokh.
So to imagine it, look at the in-game preview of the ship, see the thin deck that protrudes from the outside and the bridge connects to? I think that if you make a bulbous hull based on the dimensions of that deck piece it should main stability, but for safety I will still add in the stab unit on the bottom.
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Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:58:00 -
[45]
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 23/08/2009 12:19:27
Originally by: Leviathan9
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/08/2009 11:37:09
I agree with Bell, get an expert in structural design to have a look over it. Also i'm hope you're prepared to spend around ú240,000.. especially in times like these, other than that, good luck. Oh and most important is definately build a scaled prototype, you need to need to see if a smaller version would actually float.. If you don't build a prototype, you're a mad man.
um read the first post before you post something please.
"All in all I think it will cost about $400,000.00 USD"
Also other post's of mine I have stated that I use simulation software to test my ideas, take the time to read the posts, skimming is fine and all but you skipped some stuff that I had already mentioned about pre-testing.
Simulation software isn't going to be the same as a working prototype. Also $400,000 USD = roughly ú240,000 GBP. But i pretty much skim read the last paragraph, so ofc money will be an issue atm. But again, Simulation software isn't at all as accurate as a small scaled prototype that you can take to a pond and place it in to see if it floats.
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Caius Severus
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Posted - 2009.08.23 12:59:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Caius Severus on 23/08/2009 13:02:39
I don't think you have any idea of what you are getting yourself into. A 60m boat is not a small undertaking. If you wanted to build something that size you pretty much need a shipyard to do it, and it is going to be extremely expensive, not to mention that the chances are unless you are a naval architect it will be completely unsafe. It is not something you are going to be able to do on the back of a *** packet.
Also a gas turbine engine is lol unless you are putting it in a half decent hull shape. It will burn stupid amounts of fuel and not go very fast.
Edit: $400,000 is also lol worthy. If you can build anything on that scale for 10x that you are doing well.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.08.23 13:05:00 -
[47]
I think the Hyperion would make a much better yacht.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Max Thorus
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Posted - 2009.08.23 13:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lt Forge
http://www.walyou.com/blog/2008/09/23/huge-lego-aircraft-carrier-gets-respect/
holy ****!!!! And I thought my 7 meters Trebuchet is crazy.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 13:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Caius Severus
Edited by: Caius Severus on 23/08/2009 13:02:39
I don't think you have any idea of what you are getting yourself into. A 60m boat is not a small undertaking. If you wanted to build something that size you pretty much need a shipyard to do it, and it is going to be extremely expensive, not to mention that the chances are unless you are a naval architect it will be completely unsafe. It is not something you are going to be able to do on the back of a *** packet.
Also a gas turbine engine is lol unless you are putting it in a half decent hull shape. It will burn stupid amounts of fuel and not go very fast.
Edit: $400,000 is also lol worthy. If you can build anything on that scale for 10x that you are doing well.
in a previous post.
"The one's that will come in handy is one of my uncle's, he's a CEC Officer, his main job is testing the structural designs of some of the Navy's warships"
Also $400k is pretty cheap btw, Aluminum is $1893 per tonne, the ship is going to be 60m long, the Sea Shadow which is a similar sized ship is 40ft shorter in length and weighs near 546 tonnes. my ship I would be lucky if I could make it safe with 300 tonnes.
I may even have to up it a bit more, 280 tonnes of aluminum btw is = to $540,040.00 USD another 20 tonnes of steel for the Bulge section which runs another $5460.
This is not money I have on me at the time, this is money I figure I will make over the next 15 years, most of my life is going to go into this, I will have no vacations and EvE will be paid for buy plex's I buy in-game. I work nearly 16/7 so I make well over the amount per year to fund this kind of thing. I am more determined to do this than I was to go to Iraq for 4 years of my life. I have never wanted to do anything more than this, I also don't care how much money it costs & even if it fails at least I can say I tried something epic like this.
Also about construction, I plan on doing this with modular construction then having the sectional parts shipped down to florida for final construction and the sort. semi trailers are typically 53' long so for shipment I have to plan by what I can use for transportation as well.
Also do you know how much thrust you get from a C-105 Turbine?? the C-105 is one of the biggest transport planes in the military, if used correctly 2 of those would be more than enough to give power to something like this. Currently most Aegis cruisers use 4 LM 2500 gas turbines which yields 86,000 horspower to maintain a speed of around 30+ knots and they are more than 2x bigger than the design spec's I'm going for which means if I had 2 gas turbines housed correctly I could easily achieve a decent top end speed.
And to add fuel to a fire those ships have a displacement of 3,500 tonnes, mine will have maybe 300 and assuming fuel probably about 320. In simple terms that ship will have crazy mad thrust, also since it doesn't have to be pushed at max speed it could match the Aegis cruier's 20 knots and attain a nice 6000+ mile operational limit.
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Gavic
UK Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.08.23 14:40:00 -
[50]
Dont mind the complainers if you even only get teh drawings for the hull together and a working model that alone would be a cool achivement.
Good luck and hope to see you in 15 years chugging along ;)
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Okonaa
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Posted - 2009.08.23 14:43:00 -
[51]
having a BP is nice, but i bet it wont swim on water, if it does, i buy one please!
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Caius Severus
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Posted - 2009.08.23 14:51:00 -
[52]
I would be surprised if the raw material cost came to half the cost of building something like that. Fitting it out to meet the various regulations for a vessel that size will not be insignificant.
Also once you have built it (lol), you need to consider running costs - you will need a crew of qualified mariners for a ship, and ask anyone who owns even a small yacht about how much money boats eat before you even move them.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 15:21:00 -
[53]
Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 23/08/2009 15:22:04
I know how much they cost, you don't think being in a family full of navy vets that there wouldn't be some with large boats/ships?? the CEC Officer lives on the Yokosuka Naval base in Japan, his house is a yacht b/c he doesn't like the cramped living quarters most single japanese people live in.
I've already thought about the costs of running a large ship like that, It will cost me in excess of a few million per year "if" I were to use it on a regular basis, but seeing as I would make a house out of it I would more likely keep it moored for long periods of time, I live in michigan so keeping something like that parked in a harbor wouldn't be as difficult as you might think it is.
Also crew, as far as that goes, assuming I can get this moving forward many of my family members said they would help. 3 of my family have served as engineers on the CV USS Enterprise, 1 as helmsman on the BB Iowa but he's in his 60's right now & he's not too fond of smaller ships but he's family so I think he might help... I hope, that or I hope he's still alive in 15 years haha.
but I will need more than that, there will be a need for a cook or two, navigation officer, helmsman, engineers for various needs & deck crew(janitors). Then if I got permits to do it legally I could turn it into a small liner like someone mentioned earlier.
Also for those who think I am crazy, here ya go... another group of crazy people making a fictional piece into reality.
http://www.mechaps.com/about/
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Chris Liath
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.08.23 15:46:00 -
[54]
Can someone say intellectual property infringement?
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Mithfindel
Aseyakone
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Posted - 2009.08.23 15:53:00 -
[55]
You already noted the need for a fin, but still I'd be somewhat doubtful. The Rokh is higher than it's wide, so it can be quite unstable. By putting everything heavy close to the bottom of the craft might help along with the fin, so you'd really need to consider the internal structure as well. Then things like structural stability. How large an effective force is caused by the water on the hull? (So, how many beams are needed to keep the hull shape.) How large can the waves be that the design is still stable? How high you need to make it waterproof? How strong winds can it take and still keep course? The shape alone doesn't mean that it won't float - we have a wealth of boxy ships running freight. It does partially depend on how high you are willing for it to have a ship's bow (and the bow shape itself might effect stability a lot). Another thing is how easy it is to sail - the propeller and rudder design. I'd guess you need auxiliary engines to make it easier to move around.
Of course, there's the alternative of making it a towed barge. When you count on maintenance, remember that it isn't just fuel and crew - you'll need to keep the hull clean of any growth under the waterline, and the engine serviced even if it isn't seeing much use. Admitted, my experience of boats is from a *lot* smaller craft.
In either case there is also the environmental stuff. How do you deal with waste disposal? If you live there, you'll likely want to have decent sanitary space (toilets, showers) - and likely running water (water tanks are an option, but if your tap water isn't plain horrible, it tends to be a lot more fresh than even bottled springwater). If you live in the north, connecting the thing into local water pipes might also have some problems - because if you have a real winter, the pipes will get frozen. Which brings us on how you keep the thing air conditioned (warm at winter, cool at summer). And a lot other similar things one might not think at first.
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Jericho thePure
Amarr
The 13th Armored Headhunters
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Posted - 2009.08.23 15:55:00 -
[56]
If you want it to scale, the Rokh is 1,007m long (not sure how wide). GL with your project btw.
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- Sig
"All those moments, will be lost in time like tears in rain...... time to die ..." |
Jericho thePure
Amarr
The 13th Armored Headhunters
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Posted - 2009.08.23 15:57:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jericho thePure
If you want it to scale, the Rokh is 1,007m long (not sure how wide). GL with your project btw.
I wonder how much it would cost to build a full scale Rokh, quick one of you math geeks run the numbers!
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- Sig
"All those moments, will be lost in time like tears in rain...... time to die ..." |
Memphis Baas
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Posted - 2009.08.23 16:12:00 -
[58]
You know, if you're making a yacht, why not make a Minmatar ship one? I mean, they have sails and all.
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Ralnik
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Posted - 2009.08.23 16:20:00 -
[59]
Umm I'm not against crazy ideas, as I've had enough of my own. However 15 years and 400k is a big time and money investment.
Why not scale your plans down and build a mini version as a speed boat? You could work out a lot of problems and figure out if it will actually float.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.23 16:44:00 -
[60]
As stated in previous postings by various people, the idea of making a smaller version is already in the works, a scaled one about 14ft in size should work, then it would be about the size of a small boat anyways haha.
I think it will float especially if using the base hull of a similar ship, what do you think of getting a mothballed hull from something like a torpedo boat? or a Frigate? I don't think obtaining one would be too difficult but then again I have never done something like this so everything is going to be on a first time basis.
Also over a 15 year period I'm quite sure I will meet people who like the idea and if I can prove it will work I may even get some help. ya know? then again I can always get shot down but I'm prepared for that other wise if I wasn't then what would be the point of posting the thread in the first place? It's well known that a lot of the people who play eve are very critical about almost anything so what better place to bring this idea?
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