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Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:49:00 -
[1]
This old old bug / exploit has been abused by many player over the years and frankly is kinda of redundant.
The whole emergency warp feature is also an out dated feature that is more than redundant.
My suggestions is simple.
Hard code the coordinates of the log off location and until the player reaches that location via the re-entry warp (which should also still be in effect even if the player logs off again) should only warp into that location.
Loosing kills to poor judgement is one thing but seriously this is the oldest of the old sort it out.
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RedSplat
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:30:00 -
[2]
was raised by CSM a few days ago i beleive
 Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:17:00 -
[3]
The first time I heard about this mechanic, it was from a guy talking about how he killed the guy anyways. Any idiot with a scan probe launcher can find the person trivially, since you know he's within a million or two km of where you saw him last. This doesn't seem like a problem to me - it's a tactic more interesting than it is powerful. I like it, personally.
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BruisedMoon
Gravis Unbound
The Council.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:37:00 -
[4]
i hate having this happen.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:40:00 -
[5]
just make logging in space unsafe.
Noone should be able to log undocked and disappear, no ship should disappear magically.
If one logged unsafe in space the ship should never disappear but stay there (scannable) 1 mio. away from the spot he logged.
Further, no emergency warp or disappear while scrambled within 15 minutes or some longer time.
Quote:
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
just make logging in space unsafe.
Noone should be able to log undocked and disappear, no ship should disappear magically.
If one logged unsafe in space the ship should never disappear but stay there (scannable) 1 mio. away from the spot he logged.
Further, no emergency warp or disappear while scrambled within 15 minutes or some longer time.
that proposal is just stupid for all systems without stations (0.0, w-space)
you would be mostlikely ganked every money and back in your med clone station.
before your propose something else think it through.
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Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:28:00 -
[7]
this seems like a problem I currently know and lots of people know and use. "the log on trap" dun dun dunn. Sure not the same thing but it made me think about it.
Just some guy uses the log off log on method to gain an advantage to the game either by using it for escape in warping or by the log on traop... for me thats an exploit.
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Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: darius mclever
that proposal is just stupid for all systems without stations (0.0, w-space)
you would be mostlikely ganked every money and back in your med clone station.
before your propose something else think it through.
I have a feeling you dont like it because its not stupid but because either your using that method yourself a lot or because you know you'll become very vulnerable yourself. Maybe people should try to use another tactic beside the log off/log on
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.10 18:26:00 -
[9]
well, ok, make logging in a POS FF safe besides logging docked. nothing else.
That should be enough. If you fly to a hostile region, you have to come back for logging or you will die...
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.10 18:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nidhiesk
Originally by: darius mclever
that proposal is just stupid for all systems without stations (0.0, w-space)
you would be mostlikely ganked every money and back in your med clone station.
before your propose something else think it through.
I have a feeling you dont like it because its not stupid but because either your using that method yourself a lot or because you know you'll become very vulnerable yourself. Maybe people should try to use another tactic beside the log off/log on
lets assume i am roaming in 0.0. it is getting late and i cant get home. so i log out but my ship stays in space and i get killed by a prober passing through a few hours after i logged?
how is that useful?
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.09.10 21:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Nidhiesk
Originally by: darius mclever
that proposal is just stupid for all systems without stations (0.0, w-space)
you would be mostlikely ganked every money and back in your med clone station.
before your propose something else think it through.
I have a feeling you dont like it because its not stupid but because either your using that method yourself a lot or because you know you'll become very vulnerable yourself. Maybe people should try to use another tactic beside the log off/log on
lets assume i am roaming in 0.0. it is getting late and i cant get home. so i log out but my ship stays in space and i get killed by a prober passing through a few hours after i logged?
how is that useful?
I gotta agree with "no way" on that. We're not all station huggers, some of us roam deep space many, many jumps from a friendly place to dock.
For some of us logging out in space is a normal way to end the day. It has nothing to do with hostiles or agression, it's just like pulling into a dock.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Mobius Fierce
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Posted - 2009.09.10 22:11:00 -
[12]
Why does it have to warp you away? Couldn't it just log you out/in where you are currently located without warping you?
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.09.10 22:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/09/2009 22:56:25
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Any idiot with a scan probe launcher can find the person trivially, since you know he's within a million or two km of where you saw him last.
Until you realize that if they do the logon-logoff quick enough (like using 2 computers / clients) they are invulnerable when you land right next to them, and you cant put a point on them.
Had it once with an obelisk, the guy kept logging off and on, we probed his e-warp spots like 15 times and had a whole fleet sitting right next to it, but nobody was able to lock it.
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Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.10 23:05:00 -
[14]
I can respect the frustration of having this tactic used against you, however I think that this aspect of the log-off mechanic is currently balanced. The reason that it works the way it does is because more often than not, people logging off in dangerous space happens by accident- their client crashes, or something goes wrong in their network. And believe me- problems like that occur A LOT more frequently than the people who abuse this mechanic.
I don't support the idea that you should stay in the same spot you originally E-Warped to on log-off, however I do strongly support that the 15 minute aggression timer should be reset if you are aggressed and logged out.
:D
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.10 23:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mobius Fierce
Why does it have to warp you away? Couldn't it just log you out/in where you are currently located without warping you?
Because if you lose connection in the middle of a fight, you'd generally prefer that the game at least try to get you out of danger.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.10 23:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Mobius Fierce
Why does it have to warp you away? Couldn't it just log you out/in where you are currently located without warping you?
Because if you lose connection in the middle of a fight, you'd generally prefer that the game at least try to get you out of danger.
This... big time.
The one thing that keeps me from supporting any sort of "logging" proposal is my expeince as an Information Technologist....
The science of Internet dictates that you can never ever know the real reason for someone "logging off" in the middle of anything.
You naturally assume they did it... but how do you know it wasn't joe schmoe driving his damned backhoe over the ####ing backbone fibre optic trunk in some obscene random location knocking out internet for the region (True story >.<;;; )?
You don't... and yet you say "well its there problem"
CCP however ignores you... regardless of your wardrum bangin.
like it or not... this issue is not likely going to resolve in anyone's favor.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
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Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.09.11 00:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: darius mclever
lets assume i am roaming in 0.0. it is getting late and i cant get home. so i log out but my ship stays in space and i get killed by a prober passing through a few hours after i logged?
how is that useful?
Just do like lots of other mmo out there, you click on log off and the game makes you wait 10 secs. You have to wait that time while doing nothing and then boom, you disapear and get out of the game.
For the disconnection. CCP could log these things very easily I presume. I think they can make that difference. If you click it, it gets logged. If he didn't click on log off then the game registers it as an accidental disconnection (my wife running her truck over the fiber optic cable cause she's sick I'm playing this game LMAO).
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.09.11 00:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nidhiesk
Just do like lots of other mmo out there, you click on log off and the game makes you wait 10 secs. You have to wait that time while doing nothing and then boom, you disapear and get out of the game.
For the disconnection. CCP could log these things very easily I presume. I think they can make that difference. If you click it, it gets logged. If he didn't click on log off then the game registers it as an accidental disconnection (my wife running her truck over the fiber optic cable cause she's sick I'm playing this game LMAO).
And how would that keep players from just unplugging their network cable for a second to get a quick disconnect?
Besides, if you drop with network issues, you already have a pretty long delay before the server even notices the client is gone.
In fact, in laggy fleet fights I've had it many times that the server didnt even realized I dropped, ship was still where I left it, even targets still locked...
Thats kind of the problem imo, the current mechanic favors the logoff on purpose but doesnt really help if you have network issues in the heat of combat.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.11 00:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nidhiesk
Originally by: darius mclever
lets assume i am roaming in 0.0. it is getting late and i cant get home. so i log out but my ship stays in space and i get killed by a prober passing through a few hours after i logged?
how is that useful?
Just do like lots of other mmo out there, you click on log off and the game makes you wait 10 secs. You have to wait that time while doing nothing and then boom, you disapear and get out of the game.
For the disconnection. CCP could log these things very easily I presume. I think they can make that difference. If you click it, it gets logged. If he didn't click on log off then the game registers it as an accidental disconnection (my wife running her truck over the fiber optic cable cause she's sick I'm playing this game LMAO).
You presume falsely
You cannot possibly detect a disconnect from a log off in any form of the manner.
And as its already been pointed out.. just unplugging the network card or shutting off your modem would be easily accomplished.
It's not a matter of getting the signal.. its the false positives that are the problem.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Nidhiesk
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Posted - 2009.09.11 01:15:00 -
[20]
I may not be an expert on this but I believe that 500 people (made up number. could be more or less) logging on in a short period of time will actually make the server lag...
so by creating some kind of log off and log on delay mechanic should help this lag. That may be why your getting deconnected from the game cause of an ******* or more disconnecting either on purpose or not.
And for the 10 sec... the delay. if it disconnect before 10 then its clearly not timed from CCP 
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.11 02:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nidhiesk
I may not be an expert on this but I believe that 500 people (made up number. could be more or less) logging on in a short period of time will actually make the server lag...
so by creating some kind of log off and log on delay mechanic should help this lag. That may be why your getting deconnected from the game cause of an ******* or more disconnecting either on purpose or not.
And for the 10 sec... the delay. if it disconnect before 10 then its clearly not timed from CCP
that is already in place it is called login queue. ever tried to login after server crashes?
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Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:24:00 -
[22]
Note added the exploit rule that is broken.
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Ajurna Jakar
Dark Sun Collective
Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:26:00 -
[23]
ive seen this exploited too often, its really stupid.
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Micheal Malone
Dark Sun Collective
Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:26:00 -
[24]
Giving support for this... seeing it time and time again being abused... it's sad.
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Minifoegann
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:27:00 -
[25]
Its sad when people have to do this to get themselfs out dieing. its a game who cares about dieing
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Plump Bratwurst
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:28:00 -
[26]
This topic is in serious need of attention |
Sha'Sheer
Dark Sun Collective
Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:29:00 -
[27]
I have to agree with Cheeky here. What should be underlined here is the fact of rendering oneself *invulnerable* through the abuse of game mechanics.
do ni mo, ko ni mo, sora wa sora, hito wa hito. |
DarthGeddes
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:31:00 -
[28]
Supported, this bug is unacceptable as it is hard to prove, though anyone with half a brain can tell when it is happening.
Quick! Run and dock! |
McEivalley
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:33:00 -
[29]
This has to be taken care of. The problem is not the initial emergency warp out. The problem is yet another and another with every log out. Probing ships with the new mechanics is already sucky, and the multi-log-on-off trick is mocking a persuing fleet.
You don't even need to really wait to see if anything lands on you - you just open multiple clients and hit the login button on the extra whenever you're half way through entering space.
*thumbs up*
Insert clever remark where? |
Onyx47
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:35:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Onyx47 on 11/09/2009 11:35:23
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/09/2009 22:56:25
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Any idiot with a scan probe launcher can find the person trivially, since you know he's within a million or two km of where you saw him last.
Until you realize that if they do the logon-logoff quick enough (like using 2 computers / clients) they are invulnerable when you land right next to them, and you cant put a point on them.
Had it once with an obelisk, the guy kept logging off and on, we probed his e-warp spots like 15 times and had a whole fleet sitting right next to it, but nobody was able to lock it.
^ this
I have been caught at least once after DC (I logged out because my computer froze during a major fight), died, petitioned because I tought I didn't warp at all as I should. Logs showed I did, it was my mistake, they killed me fair and square using probers. I have no complaints about this. The person that logged off / crashed is still lockable and it's possible to kill him. Using multiple clients logging into same account to gain invurnability is the real problem.
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