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The Recruit
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: The Recruit on 15/09/2009 09:22:28
CCP when are you going to remove these items?
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:24:00 -
[2]
Nope, and stop whining about it.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:31:00 -
[3]
When someone manages to prove that it's necessary.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:33:00 -
[4]
The moment improving the stats on BPC's becomes a reality.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:34:00 -
[5]
Clear case of "If I don't have one, no one should because... well JUST BECAUSE!"
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:28:00 -
[6]
Just quit whining and buy one of your own.
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Synex
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:31:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: The Recruit
Edited by: The Recruit on 15/09/2009 09:22:28
CCP when are you going to remove these items?
Why should they?
Synex
Oursulaert Industries
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FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Synex
Originally by: The Recruit
Edited by: The Recruit on 15/09/2009 09:22:28
CCP when are you going to remove these items?
Why should they?
That
they got them fair and square if you cant afford one or cant make money making them from BPCs then do the smart thing and dont make them
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Leana Darkrider
Minmatar
Creatio -ex- nihilo
The Donkey Rollers
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:45:00 -
[9]
not going to happen
______________________________________
If only EVE could cook, if only.... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:53:00 -
[10]
I demand that every item that costs more ISK than I can be bothered to make be removed from the game.
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PostWithYourAlt
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: PostWithYourAlt on 15/09/2009 11:01:30
i'll remove them for you for just 15bn isk.
for this very low amount of isk i will use my unmatched social engineering skills to lure every t2 bpo holder with all of their bpo's in a shuttle to a trap system, pop them, loot the bpos and destroy them.
this offer is valid until 09/09/20 12:00:00 or until it's invalidity is announced by myself. If you want to take advantage of it, please transfer the isk in full to this character. Once i have received your payment, i will get in contact with you and start the operation.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malcanis
I demand that every item that costs more ISK than I can be bothered to make be removed from the game.
I demand that every item that i cant shoot , but people can safely use in station be removed.
Oh it has to be item that i cant buy/make/find if poeple are not willing to sell me one ... oh wait ... its t2bpo.
How about that ?.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:13:00 -
[13]
nice to see everyone for or against the issue was able to give clear concise arguments siting their reasons.
personally i dont think there should be any S T A T I C sources of income. that goes for bpos, moons, complexes (kinda fixed), npc belt spawns that never end, blah blah blah.
it would need to be done w/ thought (read:omg price inflation) but i think in time it may prove to be a fundamental rule for a well balanced mmo. i'm certain there are scores of ppl that would violently disagree w/ me  , then again i personally have nothing to gain or lose from the situation. 
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Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother*****r |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:14:00 -
[14]
Why remove t2 BPO's? Do you want the majority of stupid inventors who don't understand build costs to kill that area too?
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
thesonarnet
Gallente
Rukongai
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:17:00 -
[15]
I demand CCP starting to sell 100 unique new
"Invulnerable to all" modules, worth 100bill a piece!
Bonuses:
-Makes ship completely invulnerable to damage
-gives 500% damage bonus to all turrets
-can be fitted on all ships (including Rookies)
That would be great, right?
Would give the owners a little more power but what the hell they paid
for it and following the logic here, then it would be ok.
Unfair to everyone else? No of course not, because although there
are only 100 units in the game, the owners could also sell them. So this
way they are still available for everyone :-)
What a beautiful world right?! |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:19:00 -
[16]
****ing idiots of course they need removing.
its been done to death and CCP have proved that whilst they can completely alter something like rig BPOs overnight without caring they are far to scared of T2 BPO owners to make the right move.
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
+
LDS @ Bclnc
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
****ing idiots of course they need removing.
Why? Prove it.
Quote:
its been done to death
Apparently not since my lasting impression (and the QENs) is that BPOs are insignificant factors in the current T2 production environment. So, prove it.
Quote:
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
Incorrect, but please prove it.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Newsflash
Gallente
NorthUnited
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2009 11:29:05
Originally by: Rellik B00n
****ing idiots of course they need removing.
Why? Prove it.
Quote:
its been done to death
Apparently not since my lasting impression (and the QENs) is that BPOs are insignificant factors in the current T2 production environment. So, prove it.
Quote:
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
Incorrect, but please prove it. Originally by: HankMurphy
nice to see everyone for or against the issue was able to give clear concise arguments citing their reasons.
It's mainly because every time this topic comes up, the silly person making the complaint gets facts heaped upon them that disprove their stance so thoroughly that it should be common knowledge by now. It's kind of a "we already know this, and so should you" answer, if you like.
and how many bpo you/your main/your alts have? surely sound like bpo owner.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
Or those that realise that because people think T2 BPOs actually have any effect on the market, items with T2 BPOs are more profitable to invent than those without.
Quote:
I demand CCP starting to sell 100 unique new
"Invulnerable to all" modules, worth 100bill a piece!
Bonuses:
-Makes ship completely invulnerable to damage
-gives 500% damage bonus to all turrets
-can be fitted on all ships (including Rookies)
That would be great, right?
Would give the owners a little more power but what the hell they paid
for it and following the logic here, then it would be ok.
Unfair to everyone else? No of course not, because although there
are only 100 units in the game, the owners could also sell them. So this
way they are still available for everyone :-)
What a beautiful world right?!
The lottery was a mistake, however the correction of such a mistake is IMPOSSIBLE, all the T2 BPO owners in existence now paid ISK for them directly or indirectly, way more than they're worth. If T2 BPOs were the module you're proposing, they'd cost 100 billion isk, and increase your HP by 25% and damage by 5%, you'd be able to easily buy another module that did the same for 10million isk, but it would take a week to build, so those people that paid 100 billion isk would still have an advantage to complain about.
If you think they're an advantage you might as well just do a full reset on the cluster, because that's what it will take to remove their effects, effects which can't be removed by removing them.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:34:00 -
[20]
T2 BPOs are a obsolete and redundant game mechanic for T2 production. Really the only reason to remove them.
All this howling about greed and envy is just idiocy.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Abrazzar
T2 BPOs are a obsolete and redundant game mechanic for T2 production. Really the only reason to remove them.
All this howling about greed and envy is just idiocy.
and there it is, the simple truth.
The only value attributed to these in-game items has been placed on them by players.
which leads us neatly back to the people defending keeping T2 BPOs in the game.
+
LDS @ Bclnc
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Puicu
Caldari
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: The Recruit
Edited by: The Recruit on 15/09/2009 09:22:28
CCP when are you going to remove these items?
BPO T2 is a must, if you will read something about game balancing and economical models you will understand.
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Lareon Denery
Band of Cateteris
Xenogenesis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:43:00 -
[23]
Posting in an Akita T thr... oh wait.
*fixs*
Posting in a whine thread, gotcha!
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thesonarnet
Gallente
Rukongai
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2009 11:29:05
Originally by: Rellik B00n
****ing idiots of course they need removing.
Why? Prove it.
Quote:
its been done to death
Apparently not since my lasting impression (and the QENs) is that BPOs are insignificant factors in the current T2 production environment. So, prove it.
Quote:
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
Incorrect, but please prove it. Originally by: HankMurphy
nice to see everyone for or against the issue was able to give clear concise arguments citing their reasons.
It's mainly because every time this topic comes up, the silly person making the complaint gets facts heaped upon them that disprove their stance so thoroughly that it should be common knowledge by now. It's kind of a "we already know this, and so should you" answer, if you like.
What kind of proof do you want? I mean seriously, you have a group of ppl with a significant advantage (this is similar to having "Production efficiency lvl 6" available for only a few) over the rest. Game mechanics don't allow anyone else to get into that position (I know they could sell, but that's not the point).
How about the other side of the argumentation? Where's the proof that the game needs
a couple of guys holding unique items and exclude the mass from a system of equal conditions?
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr
Via Crucis Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:45:00 -
[25]
CAPITAL LETTERS IN THE THREAD TITLE ADD VALIDITY TO MY ******ED OP
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
V O O D O O
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Rellik B00n
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
Or those that realise that because people think T2 BPOs actually have any effect on the market, items with T2 BPOs are more profitable to invent than those without.
Quote:
I demand CCP starting to sell 100 unique new
"Invulnerable to all" modules, worth 100bill a piece!
Bonuses:
-Makes ship completely invulnerable to damage
-gives 500% damage bonus to all turrets
-can be fitted on all ships (including Rookies)
That would be great, right?
Would give the owners a little more power but what the hell they paid
for it and following the logic here, then it would be ok.
Unfair to everyone else? No of course not, because although there
are only 100 units in the game, the owners could also sell them. So this
way they are still available for everyone :-)
What a beautiful world right?!
The lottery was a mistake, however the correction of such a mistake is IMPOSSIBLE, all the T2 BPO owners in existence now paid ISK for them directly or indirectly, way more than they're worth. If T2 BPOs were the module you're proposing, they'd cost 100 billion isk, and increase your HP by 25% and damage by 5%, you'd be able to easily buy another module that did the same for 10million isk, but it would take a week to build, so those people that paid 100 billion isk would still have an advantage to complain about.
If you think they're an advantage you might as well just do a full reset on the cluster, because that's what it will take to remove their effects, effects which can't be removed by removing them.
Yes really over 30% t2 market is hardly any effect that bpos are making, few items are at 20% and some are even at 90-100% amde from bpo.
60D GTC - shattared link |
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:52:00 -
[27]
Invention is more profitable than production from a t2 bpo.
So why exactly do they need to be removed when they provide no particular benefit beyond a slightly different procedure of manufacture?
They provide mineral efficiency per unit but severely restrict the number of units per hour, this means vastly fewer units to market, which ultimately means slower profit.
Leave t2 bpos as they are.
And nope, i dont own a single t2 bpo.
I'd quite like to hold on to my little invention advantage tyvm.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
V O O D O O
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama
Invention is more profitable than production from a t2 bpo.
So why exactly do they need to be removed when they provide no particular benefit beyond a slightly different procedure of manufacture?
They provide mineral efficiency per unit but severely restrict the number of units per hour, this means vastly fewer units to market, which ultimately means slower profit.
Leave t2 bpos as they are.
And nope, i dont own a single t2 bpo.
I'd quite like to hold on to my little invention advantage tyvm.
T2 BPO dont use research slots, being 2x time efficent per manufacturing slot being 40% cheaper to make ( ships), no need to make copies ( you need pos or 1 week wait ). Wait invention is better how ?
60D GTC - shattared link |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Newsflash
and how many bpo you/your main/your alts have? surely sound like bpo owner.
Oh let's see here…
I have a medium CDFE BPO, a medium Anti-EM Screen BPO, a medium Trimark BPO, a medium Anti-Exp Pump BPO, a small Aux trusters BPO, a small Polycarb BPO… oh, and a full set of small hybrid ammo BPOs.
I also have exactly one char: This one.
I also also know how much large an influence T2 BPOs have on the market: ****-all.
Now what? You sure sound like a presumptuous twit.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
****ing idiots of course they need removing.
its been done to death and CCP have proved that whilst they can completely alter something like rig BPOs overnight without caring they are far to scared of T2 BPO owners to make the right move.
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
I don't own any BPO's at all
I also see no problem with the existance of T2 BPO's alongside T1 BPO's and T2 BPC's created through invention.
It is still possible to purchase a T2 BPO of your very own, granted it will not be cheap, but these items represent LONGTERM investment/profit.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Annihilate.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 15/09/2009 12:29:21
the demand of T2 ships is far too high for T2 BPO owners to have any impact really, it's only the ships that aren't used much (things like Vultures) that really come down in price.
I mean, if all the T2 BPOs are building 20 Cerbs a day, dosen't mean a whole lot when 200 are being bought (just an example)
the real bottleneck these days is moon materials. I'm sure having a T2 BPO is nice, but it's nothing against a hi-end
- Malyutka (The Virus) - |
Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:34:00 -
[32]
I know this is a troll alt thread but I'll reply anyway - the majority of people with t2 bpos have bought them, so why penalise people who have spent perhaps tens of billions to acquire something?
__________________
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Maverick77
Ecky Thump Ltd
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:37:00 -
[33]
OMG not another thread about T2 BPO's .... if you don't like it go play WoW.
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
****ing idiots of course they need removing.
Big proof a maturity here, sure gives you more credibility.
Quote:
its been done to death and CCP have proved that whilst they can completely alter something like rig BPOs overnight without caring they are far to scared of T2 BPO owners to make the right move.
So, according to you CCP isn't afraid of affecting thousands of players, yet is afraid of affecting hundreds of them. Nice logic you have here....
Quote:
The only people fighting to keep them are the people that own them.
I don't have one, but I don't want CCP to remove them.
You still haven't answered the big question: Why should CCP do it?
The "no income should be safe in a station" is the most valid one I heard yet, but it still fail. Because every T1 BPC is just as safe, as is datacore farming. Should we remove all of that from the game as well?
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:52:00 -
[35]
T2 BPO production is profitable due to better margins than invention.
Invention production is profitable due to better volumes than T2 BPOs.
With high demand items invention is king, and low demand items are probably only produced because T2 BPO holders can make a good mark-up due to the lack of invention competition.
Not really sure what the problem is. Each system has advantages and disadvantage.
アニメ漫画です
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kappas.
I know this is a troll alt thread but I'll reply anyway - the majority of people with t2 bpos have bought them, so why penalise people who have spent perhaps tens of billions to acquire something?
Because their so stupid to pay that much ISK for them, requiring several years to balance out the investment before they start making profits? Can't leave stupidity unpunished, now can we?
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Ideas for: Mining
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Lady Lard
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:54:00 -
[37]
CCP have nerfed
Drones
Armageddons without stacking penalties
MWDs(only 1 at a time)
Titans
High alpha weapon systems(doubled hp of all ships)
Motherships
Warp Core stabilizers
Fast ships
Carriers
Mining
Complexes
and more
They will nerf t2 bpos too. The only people who will whine are the t2 bpo owners who will whine just like the Titan pilots, the dominix pilot, the tempest pilot, the miner, the complex runner, the warp core stab user, and so on before them.
Eve is still here.
It will affect an extremely small amount of people. Everyone else will just use invention and carry on like nothing happened.
Eve will still be here after t2 bpos are nerfed.
Invention have made t2 bpos outdated and unnecessary and like the useless items before them they too will become extinct.
Those who do not adapt becomes victims of Evolution. |
Comrade Commizzar
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:58:00 -
[38]
BPO's should be removed for two basic reasons...
1) It is inherently bad game design to build into a game any "advantage" mechanism that is not universally available to or capable of being achieved by ALL players in the game. (The principle of a "level playing field".)
2) The fact that the BPO's can be bought and sold only makes matters worse because this means that the strategically important BPO's will eventually migrate into the hands of a few alliances which will permanently bias ship production costs in their favor, giving them an advantage in any "war of attrition".
As another poster above mentioned, BPO's are not the only problem in Eve. The static nature of non-depleting moon mining operations is even more of an imbalance problem than the BPO's.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:00:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Banana Torres on 15/09/2009 13:00:01
Originally by: Maverick77
OMG not another thread about T2 BPO's .... if you don't like it go play WoW.
I play both, of course, and currently I'm on the Aion beta too.
And of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Not very PvP, is it?
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Banana Torres
of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Then again, as mentioned, it also gives one set of players (inventors) an advantage over another set of players (BPO holders) that the BPO holders cannot match, so it balances out…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
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PH03N1X1
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:13:00 -
[41]
I got 1 T2 Drone BPO, don't have the skills to use it though 
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Banana Torres
I play both, of course, and currently I'm on the Aion beta too.
And of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Not very PvP, is it?
Then invention should be removed because it has an unfair volume production advantage .. right?
The system is okay because both production methods are profitable in different ways.
Ultimately price in high volume items is dictated by inventors, and by BPO holders in low volume items. In both cases consumer benefits from the system as it is.
アニメ漫画です
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Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Banana Torres
of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Then again, as mentioned, it also gives one set of players (inventors) an advantage over another set of players (BPO holders) that the BPO holders cannot match, so it balances outà
i think the difference is that bpo holders can become inventors if they wish to, while inventors cannot just become t2 bpo holders (unless a bpo holder is willing to sell their bpo to them).
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:18:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Sun Clausewitz on 15/09/2009 13:19:49
Simple solution to T2 BPO's
1) Get rid of them
2) Make them available for purchase
3) Make it so you can "invent" a T2 BPO from a T1 BPO
and no matter how much you deny it, T2 BPO's do have a MAJOR effect on T2 prices!
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:22:00 -
[45]
I say no to the tech 2 bpo removal
I peferr a possible .1% chance on invention with 100x the materials required. Give the egg heads something to waste thier money on.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEP09
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Julian Lynq
i think the difference is that bpo holders can become inventors if they wish to, while inventors cannot just become t2 bpo holders (unless a bpo holder is willing to sell their bpo to them).
But if as claimed BPOs are such a huge, game breaking even, advantage - why would they choose to take up invention?
Could it be that invention offers a profitable advantage?
アニメ漫画です
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Banana Torres
of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Then again, as mentioned, it also gives one set of players (inventors) an advantage over another set of players (BPO holders) that the BPO holders cannot match, so it balances outà
i think the difference is that bpo holders can become inventors if they wish to, while inventors cannot just become t2 bpo holders (unless a bpo holder is willing to sell their bpo to them).
T2 BPOs are so awesome that the owners need to resort to invention?
God, the naked and obvious envy in this thread is sickening. Waah waah it's not FAIR! Well boo hoo. Man up and get one for yourself if you think they're that awesome. They are available; you just have to offer what they're worth.
Too much?
Too bad.
I dont recall any promise that EvE would be fair. A player who started in '03 will have an SP total an 06 can never match. Unfair? Well if the 06 can muster up the 50 bill or so to buy an 03 character, he can match.
It's been said a hundred times, but apparently that's not enough, so let's have it one more time. T2 BPOs are not what limit invention profits. Compare the profits on HICs and HACs, for instance.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Annihilate.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:32:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
and no matter how much you deny it, T2 BPO's do have a MAJOR effect on T2 prices!
saying it dosen't make it true.
As said a bunch of times, the only prices significantly affected by T2 bpos are the things nobody wants anyway (Vultures, Precision Missiles, etc)
volume of stuff otherwise made by T2 BPOs is really just a drop in the ocean compared to demand, it has basically zero effect on price. But really, if said T2 BPOs were removed the the builders would go on to mass invention instead and be injecting MORE T2 into the market than they were before.
So it wouldn't do a thing really.
- Malyutka (The Virus) - |
JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:35:00 -
[49]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 15/09/2009 13:36:31
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 15/09/2009 13:35:27
To all poeple that says that t2 bpo are useless and invention is better. Why not get t2 bpo get removed from game. WE WILL MAKE A FAVOR TO ALL THOSE STUPID PEOPLE THAT USES A T2 BPO FOR PRODUCTION INSTEAD OF INVENTION.
And.
Originally by: Abrazzar
Edited by: Abrazzar on 15/09/2009 13:07:17
Originally by: Kappas.
I know this is a troll alt thread but I'll reply anyway - the majority of people with t2 bpos have bought them, so why penalise people who have spent perhaps tens of billions to acquire something?
Because they're so stupid to pay that much ISK for them, requiring several years to balance out the investment before they start making profits? Can't leave stupidity unpunished, now can we?
That would be my favortie 
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Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:38:00 -
[50]
i think my post was misinterpreted here.
i replied to someone arguing that inventors also have advantages over t2 bpo holders because they can produce greater numbers.
my point was that it is not really an advantage for the inventors, because t2 bpo holders could, shall they really wish to, also have this advantage by becomming inventors, while inventors can not take on the advantage that bpo holders have.
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azeral kulik
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2009 12:31:31
Originally by: Newsflash
and how many bpo you/your main/your alts have? surely sound like bpo owner.
Oh let's see hereà
I have a medium CDFE BPO, a medium Anti-EM Screen BPO, a medium Trimark BPO, a medium Anti-Exp Pump BPO, a small Aux trusters BPO, a small Polycarb BPOà oh, and a full set of small hybrid ammo BPOs.
I also have exactly one char: This one.
I also also know how much large an influence T2 BPOs have on the market: ****-all.
Now what? You sure sound like a presumptuous twit.
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
T2 BPO dont use research slots, being 2x time efficent per manufacturing slot being 40% cheaper to make ( ships), no need to make copies ( you need pos or 1 week wait ).
No, I'm afraid you've got that quite wrong: BPOs have an extraordinary need to make copies because manufacturing from a BPO is a serial task. You first get one item. Then anoher. Then another (or possibly, in a loooooong while, three at once). With BPCs, you get 3 in one go because you can run them in parallel, thus reacting quickly to market changes without having to tie up production facilities, logistics (and in some cases storage) on long-term speculations and large (potentially unused) stockpiles.
you must still make alot of profit though otherwise you wouldnt have them.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: azeral kulik
you must still make alot of profit though otherwise you wouldnt have them.
What are you referring to? My T1 rig BPOs?
No, not much profit there (now, when the first rush is over ). They're mainly for personal usage.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:11:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Banana Torres
of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Then again, as mentioned, it also gives one set of players (inventors) an advantage over another set of players (BPO holders) that the BPO holders cannot match, so it balances outà
That is just bollox.
A t2 BPO holder can invent too.
If you are going to spout bollox, please make it so that I have to engage more than two brain cells to refute it.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Banana Torres
That is just bollox.
A t2 BPO holder can invent too.
…and an inventor can go out and buy a T2 BPO, just like most of the current BPO holders.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Banana Torres
That is just bollox.
A t2 BPO holder can invent too.
àand an inventor can go out and buy a T2 BPO, just like most of the current BPO holders.
a bpo holder can become an inventor as he wishes.
he could make a decision for a certain item and be going tommorow.
an inventor cannot do that.
he needs the luck of someone selling him his bpo. and he does not have the choice that the bpo holder has. some t2 bpo's are just "priceless" and not ever being sold.
overall an inventor needs to put much more effort into becoming a t2 bpo holder and produce from it in a profitable way than what it takes for a bpo holder to become an efficient inventor.
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:28:00 -
[56]
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 14:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Banana Torres
That is just bollox.
A t2 BPO holder can invent too.
àand an inventor can go out and buy a T2 BPO, just like most of the current BPO holders.
a bpo holder can become an inventor as he wishes.
he could make a decision for a certain item and be going tommorow.
an inventor cannot do that.
he needs the luck of someone selling him his bpo. and he does not have the choice that the bpo holder has. some t2 bpo's are just "priceless" and not ever being sold.
overall an inventor needs to put much more effort into becoming a t2 bpo holder and produce from it in a profitable way than what it takes for a bpo holder to become an efficient inventor.
But that is sort of the same hurdles I would have to go through if I want to fly a titan or even a mother ship. Removing T2 BPO's would be removing the "high end" goal for many manufacturers and there aren't many of those in that part of game already.
I would maybe support removal of T2 BPO's if CCP introduced new and exciting high end features for manufacturing and research that doesn't necessarily require a POS.
----------------
Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:44:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Comrade Commizzar
BPO's should be removed for two basic reasons...
1) It is inherently bad game design to build into a game any "advantage" mechanism that is not universally available to or capable of being achieved by ALL players in the game. (The principle of a "level playing field".)
Your "level playing field" also lead to the suppression of event ships, and everyone starting with 100 millions SP, because it's unfair that older players should have an advantage over new ones, right?
Quote:
2) The fact that the BPO's can be bought and sold only makes matters worse because this means that the strategically important BPO's will eventually migrate into the hands of a few alliances which will permanently bias ship production costs in their favor, giving them an advantage in any "war of attrition".
A/ It's already the case, has been for years. Most T2 ships BPOs belong to 0.0 corps.
B/ The attrition argument is crap. Wars are won or lost with morale. Isk doesn't matter.
Quote:
As another poster above mentioned, BPO's are not the only problem in Eve. The static nature of non-depleting moon mining operations is even more of an imbalance problem than the BPO's.
R64 moons need a nerf, yes. But T2 bpos are such a non-factor at corp/alliance level that considering them a signifiant advantage is being really ignorant of null-sec management.
As an exemple, one minmatar outpost in a decent system with about 100 real players based in will bring you enough mineral with a 10% reprocess tax to equal or exceed the income from 3 HAS BPOs.
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Coch Draig
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:44:00 -
[59]
Brown sauce anyone?
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Banana Torres
That is just bollox.
A t2 BPO holder can invent too.
àand an inventor can go out and buy a T2 BPO, just like most of the current BPO holders.
1. There are more inventors that t2 BPOs.
2. By buying a t2 BPO the player player becomes a t2 BPO holder which is good for him. But because of 1 is not a solution that all inventors can follow.
It is like saying to true PvPers, there a number of indestructable implants that give a advantage over people without them. But there are not enough them so that everyone who wants one, and can afford one, can have one.
Which of course in real PvP is not acceptable, put in the make pretend 'market PvP' is an OK.
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Ritzenhoff
Gallente
Fabian Strategy
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:32:00 -
[61]
Shouldn't this be moved to Science and Industry forum with the other bajillion threads on this topic?
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small chimp
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 15:33:00 -
[62]
Edited by: small chimp on 15/09/2009 15:33:18
Originally by: The Recruit
Edited by: The Recruit on 15/09/2009 09:22:28
CCP when are you going to remove these items?
go cry emo kid
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:42:00 -
[63]
It is not going to happen. T2 Bpo's are here to stay.
Opinion: for christmas we should have another bpo lottery and give all the whiney new pilots a chance to own a bpo. Then its done. no more lotteries again for another year and a half.
--------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
small chimp
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:57:00 -
[64]
But even the op could buy his t2 bpo? I am sure there are at least some for sale?
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:00:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 15/09/2009 11:40:50The only value attributed to these in-game items has been placed on them by players./url]
I'm not sure I'm reading this right? but isn't this generally the idea? It being a Player-Driven MMO.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:07:00 -
[66]
It's not "greed and envy" at all, in my case at least.
I just like to manufacture my own ammo and wish i could do the same with T2 Drones.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Opinion: for christmas we should have another bpo lottery and give all the whiney new pilots a chance to own a bpo. Then its done. no more lotteries again for another year and a half.
Better idea: This new year's eve CCP flips a coin. Heads means T2 BPOs stay around, tail means they all get nuked. Flip again next year until they are gone. Risk vs Reward and all that yaddayaddafallaciesyaddayadda.
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Ideas for: Mining
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small chimp
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:12:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
It's not "greed and envy" at all, in my case at least.
I just like to manufacture my own ammo and wish i could do the same with T2 Drones.
Why don't you just buy some bpo for them?
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azeral kulik
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:14:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: azeral kulik
you must still make alot of profit though otherwise you wouldnt have them.
What are you referring to? My T1 rig BPOs?
No, not much profit there (now, when the first rush is over ). They're mainly for personal usage.
lol thought you where talking about t2 bpo sorry.
anyway im all for unique and rare items, i belive that the special reward ships such as the tribal issue tempest and the guardian vexor should be brought back in. (tribal issue maelstrom would kick ass)
also a new gold magnate should be given to some one.
gives you something to aim for.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:15:00 -
[70]
Originally by: small chimp
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
It's not "greed and envy" at all, in my case at least.
I just like to manufacture my own ammo and wish i could do the same with T2 Drones.
Why don't you just buy some bpo for them?
I assume you mean BPC?
It's simpler to just buy the drones than have to keep buying copies, or messing around with invention.
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:58:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: small chimp
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
It's not "greed and envy" at all, in my case at least.
I just like to manufacture my own ammo and wish i could do the same with T2 Drones.
Why don't you just buy some bpo for them?
I assume you mean BPC?
It's simpler to just buy the drones than have to keep buying copies, or messing around with invention.
Didn't you just say that you liked to build your own drones? Why buy them then?
Anyway, even if T2 bpos were removed, you'd always find cheaper than building cost on the market, because there's no shortage of fools.
------------------------------------------
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: small chimp
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
It's not "greed and envy" at all, in my case at least.
I just like to manufacture my own ammo and wish i could do the same with T2 Drones.
Why don't you just buy some bpo for them?
I assume you mean BPC?
It's simpler to just buy the drones than have to keep buying copies, or messing around with invention.
Didn't you just say that you liked to build your own drones? Why buy them then?
Anyway, even if T2 bpos were removed, you'd always find cheaper than building cost on the market, because there's no shortage of fools.
If i could buy T2 Drone BPO's, i wouldn't be taking part in this discussion...
People don't want to part with their limited edition items, for some strange reason.
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PPUAPU
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:07:00 -
[73]
If you give us all money invested in BPO tech 2 than you can ask ccp to remove them.
And now go start to work for BPO. From release of box with eve in shops all kids start to make threads on forums. 
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Gunnanmon
Gallente
Imperial Syndicate Forces
The Laughing Men
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 17:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Comrade Commizzar
BPO's should be removed for two basic reasons...
1) It is inherently bad game design to build into a game any "advantage" mechanism that is not universally available to or capable of being achieved by ALL players in the game. (The principle of a "level playing field".)
2) The fact that the BPO's can be bought and sold only makes matters worse because this means that the strategically important BPO's will eventually migrate into the hands of a few alliances which will permanently bias ship production costs in their favor, giving them an advantage in any "war of attrition".
As another poster above mentioned, BPO's are not the only problem in Eve. The static nature of non-depleting moon mining operations is even more of an imbalance problem than the BPO's.
o7
Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Black Leather
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:19:00 -
[75]
I still have a set of mine BPOs.
I can even still manufacture mines from them.
But completely useless.
Should they be removed from the game? I don't know, but if CCP doesn't see a need to remove completely useless BPOs, why would they remove perfectly good T2 BPOs?
I don't really have a point to make, just boosting my pathetic post count 
BL
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GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:19:00 -
[76]
the cost for buying a t2 bpo theese days is in average 5 years of the profit it can generate.
ccp should state today that in 5 years, they will change t2 bpo's into long run bpc's.
this way all the people who have bought them do not loose any isk. the longer ccp does nothing howevr, the worse the situation becomes.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:26:00 -
[77]
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
the cost for buying a t2 bpo theese days is in average 5 years of the profit it can generate.
ccp should state today that in 5 years, they will change t2 bpo's into long run bpc's.
this way all the people who have bought them do not loose any isk. the longer ccp does nothing howevr, the worse the situation becomes.
So you say CCP should show consideration for people that buy a BPO for so much ISK it takes 5 years of production to start making a profit in the vain hope that EVE will even still exist by then? Since when does CCP protect people from their own massive stupidity?
Such BPO sales are basically scams. People stupid enough to fall for them should not be shown any consideration. At all.
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Ideas for: Mining
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GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:29:00 -
[78]
i dont see it as a vain hope that eve still exists in 5 years. i am even pretty optimistic eve will still exist in 10+ years.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:39:00 -
[79]
I don't really have any problem with the idea of limited edition BPOs, but it becomes one when we just have one group of people with T2 BPOs lording over everyone for YEARS. If there was a new tech of modules and BPOs every year or something it would be fine, but the way they just let it stagnate is bad for the game.
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Mr Funkadelic
x13
KrautbreaK
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 18:13:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Edited by: Banana Torres on 15/09/2009 13:00:01
Originally by: Maverick77
OMG not another thread about T2 BPO's .... if you don't like it go play WoW.
I play both, of course, and currently I'm on the Aion beta too.
And of the three Eve Online is the only one that gives one set of players (t2 BPO holders) an advantage over another set of players (inventors). An advantage that the inventors can do nothing about.
Not very PvP, is it?
Why dont you just buy one like all the other t2 bpo owners? Its an advantage just like having officer fitting on a ship is an advantage. You can get exactly the same item, and get exactly the same advantage. Its not like they are locked down and cant be traded to anyone else.
Maybe you should move on to play some Aion, where the CE players wont get an advantage, by getting wings and other nice items, that normal players cant get.
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Elite Contract
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Posted - 2009.09.15 18:50:00 -
[81]
Contract them to me and i will make sure they are removed.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.09.15 18:58:00 -
[82]
Altposting in all caps. It must be time then...
Was 'The Crybaby' taken?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
small chimp
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 19:01:00 -
[83]
Its not that hard to remove them:
1) Collect some isk with a goup of people who wants them removed.
2) Make an offer that the t2 bpo holders cannot refuse.
3) Destroy the bpos.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.15 19:20:00 -
[84]
Regardless of if they exist or not. Invention will be coming to the market at any rate. So the t2 bpos to even compete have to become cheaper then invention.
So on the consumer. There is a positive effect from t2 bpos. Even if t2 bpos are coming in at invention costs... there no problem on the consumer that way neither.
T2 bpos existing have small effect on the market in terms of costs.
The only thing that is a reality... a person with a t2 bpo... is a cash cow. Inventors can be fighting for 5% profit... the t2 bpos are making 25% profit in that same market.
Extremely unfair.
It is essentially on par with Capships in highsec. If someone started using capships in wars inhighsec... it would be extremely bad in terms of the game. Which is why it was banned from using them.
A few people who are old enough characters to have had the opportunity to get a t2 bpo(char old enough to have highsec capship) compete with everyone else who couldnt possibly try to compete with these characters. Without losing vast amounts of isk in the process.
------------------------
To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 19:32:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Avon
T2 BPO production is profitable due to better margins than invention.
Well of course you would say that, with the developers handing your alliance BPOs 
---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.15 20:39:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Lady Lard
CCP have nerfed
Drones
Armageddons without stacking penalties
MWDs(only 1 at a time)
Titans
High alpha weapon systems(doubled hp of all ships)
Motherships
Warp Core stabilizers
Fast ships
Carriers
Mining
Complexes
and more
They will nerf t2 bpos too. The only people who will whine are the t2 bpo owners who will whine just like the Titan pilots, the dominix pilot, the tempest pilot, the miner, the complex runner, the warp core stab user, and so on before them.
T2 BPO have already been nerfed, you see we have invention.
Look what T2 BPO owners were capable of getting before invention and after.
You will see that there has been a huge nerf there.
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Cassiopeia Draco
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Posted - 2009.09.15 20:49:00 -
[87]
These threads are getting more common and Tedious than the 'oh my god, the last patch nerfed invention'.
Things to consider from the QMR :
Page 35 : 97% of all T2 manufacture jobs are from BPC's
Page 36 : 67% of T2 manufacture jobs (ex Drones, Ammo) are from T2 BPC's
Page 40 : 54% of T2 hulls are manufactured by BPO's
Page 42 : HAS (HAC's) 75% of hulls are manufactured by BPC's
Page 43 : Interceptors 16% of Hulls are manufactured by BPC's
Page 44 : Hulks 89% of hulls are by BPC's
Page 46 : 88% of Cap recharger II's are produced by BPC's
Page 47 : 92% of Cov-ops Cloaks are Produced by BPC's
Anyone spotting a pattern yet?????
So Why do T2 BPO's need removing when they impact the market less than inventors, except in a few minority areas, like interceptors.
The reason a lot of items are 'unprofitable' is because of the people that believe datacores are free and dont factor in Failed attempts, if people did prices might rise by 10-15%.
PS : I dont own, (and neither do any of my alts own) a T2 BPO, and we proably never will.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
V O O D O O
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Posted - 2009.09.15 21:38:00 -
[88]
forogten about 33% whole t2 market being from bpo ?
60D GTC - shattared link |
Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:06:00 -
[89]
Hasn't this been posted like once a month since invention was first ANNOUNCED?!?!?
Give it up already. |
Gort
Minmatar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.09.15 23:19:00 -
[90]
Not again. Jesus wept.
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
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CrazySpaceHobo
Caldari
Mysterys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.16 01:27:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Julian Lynq
a bpo holder can become an inventor as he wishes.
he could make a decision for a certain item and be going tommorow.
an inventor cannot do that.
he needs the luck of someone selling him his bpo. and he does not have the choice that the bpo holder has. some t2 bpo's are just "priceless" and not ever being sold.
overall an inventor needs to put much more effort into becoming a t2 bpo holder and produce from it in a profitable way than what it takes for a bpo holder to become an efficient inventor.
Priceless? Incorrect, everything and everyone has their price. What you mean is, you dont have the money to pay that price.
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Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2009.09.16 07:32:00 -
[92]
Originally by: CrazySpaceHobo
Originally by: Julian Lynq
a bpo holder can become an inventor as he wishes.
he could make a decision for a certain item and be going tommorow.
an inventor cannot do that.
he needs the luck of someone selling him his bpo. and he does not have the choice that the bpo holder has. some t2 bpo's are just "priceless" and not ever being sold.
overall an inventor needs to put much more effort into becoming a t2 bpo holder and produce from it in a profitable way than what it takes for a bpo holder to become an efficient inventor.
Priceless? Incorrect, everything and everyone has their price. What you mean is, you dont have the money to pay that price.
if the price is equal to 20 years of speculated profit from it, that is the same as "priceless". stupidly high price == no price.
imagine you wanted to buy my character. i tell you "sorry dude, my character is not for sale - it is priceless". you then go on and on about it and i say "well, ok. i'll sell it to you for 5000bn isk. it has a price now. not my fault if you cannot afford it."
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.09.16 07:49:00 -
[93]
no need to make the argument more complex than it is.
no one should have an inexhaustible resource. especially one that can no longer be obtained through the game. (no, buying them from someone else isn't obtaining them through the game.)
they need to be removed convert them to 100run bpcs or what have you
collectors items? sure. but its not a collectors item, its a resource (you cant make more fed megas out of a fed mega).
most ppl paid money for them? too bad. name one instance where player investment played any part in CCP game decisions
why remove them when most production is done by bpcs? great question. just as good as, say, why keep them when most production is done by bpcs?
these items were replaced by invention and left in the game so that the conversion from the old lottery system to the new invention based went smoothly w/o destroying the market. the conversion is done, it's time they disappeared. isk invested, the bpos 'real' value, the % of market produced by them... none of these things have anything to do with the discussion.
i don't think i've heard one valid reason here to keep them. that's probably because there isn't one.
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Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother*****r |
Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.16 07:54:00 -
[94]
*sips thread* Yes, this whine is aging nicely. Let it breathe some more and I'll enjoy it with a nice Camembert and some wheat crackers...
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buttesauce
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Posted - 2009.09.16 08:11:00 -
[95]
the argument about removing t2 bpos recause they are outdated and made useless is a good one. theres no need for em.
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Governor LePetomane
Rock Ridge Brokerage Solutions
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Posted - 2009.09.16 08:28:00 -
[96]
Originally by: HankMurphy
i don't think i've heard one valid reason here to keep them. that's probably because there isn't one.
There isn't really a valid reason to get rid of them either, frankly. Over time they'll eventually go inactive, get banned or get asploded, and in the meantime their effect on the market is in all likelihood wildly exaggerated.
But actually therein lies the valid reason to keep them: watching somebody go OMG T2 BPOS TEH EBIL every couple of months is still vastly entertaining.
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.16 08:33:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 16/09/2009 08:33:29
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I've yet to see any T2 Drone BPO's for sale, anywhere, for some reason people don't want to part with their limited edition items. And like i said, i find it too much of a bother to keep messing around with copies instead of just having a BPO i can research and use indefinitely.
/more coffee is required
Here a Drone BPO for sale: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1178223
If you're serious about wanting to get rid of T2 bpos, buy it and trash it.
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.09.16 09:01:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 15/09/2009 11:40:50The only value attributed to these in-game items has been placed on them by players./url]
I'm not sure I'm reading this right? but isn't this generally the idea? It being a Player-Driven MMO.
sweet! 4 pages lol!
to answer: you are indeed reading it right.
So in game terms the BPOs are worth? Thats right zero, nothing, zip.
In player terms they are worth? 5x one years profit or some such bull****.
therefore all arguments vis-a-vis "I spent all this ISK on one" or "why not go out and buy one" mean nothing and CCP removing T2 BPOs from the game is the same as CCP removing exotic dancers from the game.
I bet there would be a far greater whine thread about dancers tho
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LDS @ Bclnc
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.09.16 10:06:00 -
[99]
You have to understand it isn't the t2 BPOs themselves that are making it more expensive to buy t2 ships than the invent and build them.
The main bottleneck is Dyspro. However Dominion is going to attempt to address this somewhat.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.09.16 10:23:00 -
[100]
lets beat this dead horse!
Originally by: Governor LePetomane
There isn't really a valid reason to get rid of them either, frankly. Over time they'll eventually go inactive, get banned or get asploded, and in the meantime their effect on the market is in all likelihood wildly exaggerated.
VALID REASON It's an inexhaustible resource no longer capable of being gained through any act of game play (only through a player-player transaction).
Originally by: Rellik B00n
CCP removing T2 BPOs from the game is the same as CCP removing exotic dancers from the game.
you make a bold argument. i do like strippers.
You can't make t2 ship/items/ammo out of exotic dancers. i hope you can see how this might make things different.
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Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother*****r |
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Mifter Hogdido
Amarr
The 0ri
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Posted - 2009.09.16 10:52:00 -
[101]
No, simply no.
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Pipboy2K
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.09.16 10:54:00 -
[102]
Originally by: HankMurphy
You can't make t2 ship/items/ammo out of exotic dancers. i hope you can see how this might make things different.
fail, ships arent made out of bpos either, they are made out of materials :P
joke aside... i dont understand why people still complain about t2 bpos.
have you guys ever calculated how much profit in % you do per month compared to the invest? i by myself rather sold my t2 bpos to get the cash. some (simple) maths for you guys: you do about 1.666% profit/month with a ROI of 5 years.... FRAKKIN 1.666%!!!!!
i did a ****load more with t2 component production (i made 20b in t2 components after 1 1/2 months with an invest of about 100b)
you probably come up with the argument "but hey, i can still sell the bpo after that" sure, of course you can, but after those 5 years, where you finally got 50b cash and your 50b bpo (with the luck the item never gets nerfed in the time), im already at 500b+. t2 bpos would only be unfair if there were no better ways to make money in those volumes. atm they are just a prestige object.
to those roleplayes ala "but i want to build t2 ships, and i want to produce them from t2 bpos"... im the big bad mofo gouvenor of eve, loving tasty carebear tears, who denies you the right to build t2 ships from t2 bpos, unless you pay me 50b isk. then you will get one from me. if you dont have the cash, keep crying... enough RP for you?
War, war never changes |
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.09.16 11:10:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama
Invention is more profitable than production from a t2 bpo.
So why exactly do they need to be removed when they provide no particular benefit beyond a slightly different procedure of manufacture?
They provide mineral efficiency per unit but severely restrict the number of units per hour, this means vastly fewer units to market, which ultimately means slower profit.
Leave t2 bpos as they are.
And nope, i dont own a single t2 bpo.
I'd quite like to hold on to my little invention advantage tyvm.
T2 BPO dont use research slots, being 2x time efficent per manufacturing slot being 40% cheaper to make ( ships), no need to make copies ( you need pos or 1 week wait ). Wait invention is better how ?
Duh...
I can make 10 at a time? Deliver at least five times as many to market in any given period.
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N Ano
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Posted - 2009.09.16 11:28:00 -
[104]
**** you op
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Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.09.16 11:28:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 15/09/2009 11:40:50The only value attributed to these in-game items has been placed on them by players./url]
I'm not sure I'm reading this right? but isn't this generally the idea? It being a Player-Driven MMO.
sweet! 4 pages lol!
to answer: you are indeed reading it right.
So in game terms the BPOs are worth? Thats right zero, nothing, zip.
In player terms they are worth? 5x one years profit or some such bull****.
therefore all arguments vis-a-vis "I spent all this ISK on one" or "why not go out and buy one" mean nothing and CCP removing T2 BPOs from the game is the same as CCP removing exotic dancers from the game.
I bet there would be a far greater whine thread about dancers tho
No its more similar to CCP making a change so that every ship you spend ISK on is no longer flyable, and just has to sit in your hangar looking pretty.
People spent tens of billions on their t2 BPOs. The market is clearly totally controlled by invention (check the prices on items before and after invention). You're not going to convince CCP to remove them because you have sour grapes, but these days they dont even offer any meaningful advantage.
If you believe that making a bigger profit on 1 unit is better than making a lesser profit on 10 units then you're dead wrong. All that matters is isk profit over time. A much higher profit over time is achievable through invention, therefore the inventor gets rich very quickly while the BPO holder still has to wait 3 more years to get a single isk of profit whatsoever.
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Mihali
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Posted - 2009.09.16 12:19:00 -
[106]
Simple, they won't & it's been discussed ober & ober again. If you want one, save up to buy one. There is always at least a few on contact.
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