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Constantine Merlonne	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:16:00 - [211] Edited by: Constantine Merlonne on 17/09/2009 17:37:18 Edited by: Constantine Merlonne on 17/09/2009 17:25:11 Edited by: Constantine Merlonne on 17/09/2009 17:23:43 Originally by: Zastrow J Edited by: Zastrow J on 17/09/2009 15:49:59 Here's the argument I had made before this change: AFs and inties are both primarily tacklers. Bombers are your dps frigate. Interceptor's role is to get that initial tackle as fast as possible. The role the AF should fit in is that it's not as fast burning off for that initial tackle but once it does get a tackle it should be more difficult to shake off. Thus: AB speed tanking boost /me looks at the takling power of her Retribution, then laughs at the guy who says "AF are intended as tacklers". Seriously this idea is just plain wrong. If they're supposed to be 2nd wave tacklers, they don't have to be faster, they can already fit AB + scramble + web, after warping in on primary tackler, which is enough to pin almost anything down. What they need to fulfil this role is opportunity to resist against ennemy e-war without having to use slots for that, Amarr could resist better to neuts, caldari to jammers, etc... AB boost make them way overpowered in comparison to anything which has medium guns on it. Am i the only one who thinks AF are already awesome? Of course they can't do the job of HAS, the same way frig can't to the job of cruisers, but why trying to give them a new role already done by inties? AF role is to deal close range damage with an excellent invested isk /dps ratio, good tanking and for a large part of them good tackling capabilities. Why expecting more? And this is NOT the role of Stealth Bombers which have toilet paper-tank, they're slow, fragile, and good at stealth ops, but i wouldn't exchange my Retrib for a bomber in an all-purpose roaming gang. And if you're serious about this new awesome tactical role of assault frig, please add some med slots to Retribs...
RedSplat	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:35:00 - [212] Edited by: RedSplat on 17/09/2009 17:42:27 Originally by: Constantine Merlonne they don't have to be faster, they can already fit AB + scramble + web, after warping in on primary tackler, which is enough to pin almost anything down. What they need to fulfil this role is opportunity to resist against ennemy e-war without having to use slots for that, Amarr could resist better to neuts, caldari to jammers, etc... AB boost make them way overpowered in comparison to anything which has medium guns on it. AB boost isn't about speed- its about speed tanking in orbit of something tackled. I still maintain ONLY the Jaguar should get the AB speed Bonus. Other AF's should get different Boni (yes that's right grammar **s) Wolf: Tracking Retribution: Tracking or Armor rep bonus. Vengeance: Rocket Exp Velocity and sig facor reduction to make them GOOD with rockets. Hawk: 70% reduction in PG usage of Assault missile launchers; or 90% or w/e. Harpy: 5% shield resistsper level AF. Enyo: Hyrid cap use reduction or another 5% damage bonus if that isn't too OP. Ishkur: Drone control range bonus OR controversial +5 bandwidth per level to let it be a mini Ishtar. Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:40:00 - [213] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 And one question - wont orbiting at 2km/s allow afs to outtrack even small guns? No. We were able to hit 6-7kms interceptors with frigate guns during the last Nano age... -Liang Well i was asking because i know how hard is to hit ab ceptor that is orbiting you close if you dont have web/tracking bonus. And looks like some afs will equally fast/faster.
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:40:00 - [214] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 17:45:54 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 17:43:50 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 17:43:28 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 17:42:44 Originally by: Zastrow J Edited by: Zastrow J on 17/09/2009 15:49:59 Here's the argument I had made before this change: AFs and inties are both primarily tacklers. Bombers are your dps frigate. Interceptor's role is to get that initial tackle as fast as possible. The role the AF should fit in is that it's not as fast burning off for that initial tackle but once it does get a tackle it should be more difficult to shake off. Thus: AB speed tanking boost AFs are primary tacklers? Interesting. You get to expect the ideas like that from a 0.0 guy, because the only thing for a frig hull to do in a blob IS tackle. However, the numerous two-midslot AFs or even one single-midslot AF, the solid resists/buffer on the non-fail ones, the damage bonuses and all that suggest that being a tackler isn't what the AF is all about. First off, a tackler which is fundamentally going to keep you there until you die and even deny you the ability to move around the battlefield (unlike interceptors) and is largely invulnerable to anti-frig counters (some of them are) is OP when it's in a frig hull. Use the 150M Lachersis/Arazu hull. Or use a Keres - but guess what, you're vulnerable to anti-frig counters now! Secondly, a tackler which does the above and can kill what it tackles as well is not just a tackler; it's purely imbalanced and is the definitive ship choice for soloing. Consider it will take a extremely short time for one to get completely out of range with a slight bit of pimping, and webs don't help much... somehow this reeks of a new nano age, only the nanos cannot be driven off so easy. Originally by: RedSplat AB boost isn't about speed- its about speed tanking in orbit of something tackled. It IS about speed. Scrambler is such a insanely powerful effect, you see. If you can get in that scramble range quickly (combined with frigate base sig resolution and the fact you cannot scramble them back to slow them down), then you're OP - if you can't, then you fail. It's really a binary thing, because now with webs nerfed, it is the definitive you're not going anywhere anymore module. You can speed tank in orbit of a medium turret ship without any propulsion mods at all already. The whole thing would be sensible without scramblers and with functional webs fielded on both sides - but with larger ships stopped dead by a scrambler and pointed at the same time and smaller ships laughing at webs, it is just silly. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
RedSplat	Posted - 2009.09.17 17:49:00 - [215] Originally by: Cpt Branko You can speed tank in orbit of a medium turret ship without any propulsion mods at all already. WTB idiotic opponents that cant fit cruisers. I dont think i quite articulated what i mean there- Getting to the target to tackle isnt why you have the AB bonus. You have to AB bonus to make your harder to remove that a demon Tic once you get tackle on something that has already been fast tackled by an interceptor. For Solo or small gang work Esp. for AF gangs I'm still going to use a Jag with a MWD- i will not use just an AB; although to be honest i usually fly them as dual AB/MWD fits. Like you said- its a binary choice. If you aren't relying on others for tackle NOT fitting a MWD is stupidity. Originally by: Cpt Branko AFs are primary tacklers? Interesting. Yeah, i agree thats a very 0.0 POV. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Constantine Merlonne	Posted - 2009.09.17 18:08:00 - [216] Originally by: RedSplat Edited by: RedSplat on 17/09/2009 17:42:27 AB boost isn't about speed- its about speed tanking in orbit of something tackled. Well i do think a +75% Speed bonus when using an AB is about speed, whenever you're orbiting or not. It will give you many more opportunities to tackle anything, plus the fact that you will get a speed tanking absolutely overpowered. I however agree with the fact that each AS or at least race should have a different bonus helping them doing their intended role. Whatever it is.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.17 18:44:00 - [217] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 17/09/2009 18:46:27 Originally by: RedSplat WTB idiotic opponents that cant fit cruisers. Cruisers need specific fits if they want to take on AFs as it is, but it reduces their capabilities against nearly everything else (ref: Assault Caracal, MP Maller). Increasing AB speed obsoletes ALL non drone+neut+web based counters including small guns (aka. lol-mails) with no real downsides. Originally by: RedSplat You have to AB bonus to make your harder to remove that a demon Tic once you get tackle on something that has already been fast tackled by an interceptor. That's just it, this is already the case. Once the fast tackle is acquired the only thing boosting AB speed will do is make the AF feature higher on the killmail as it arrives a few seconds earlier to lay down its untouchable damage. Originally by: RedSplat For Solo or small gang work Esp. for AF gangs I'm still going to use a Jag with a MWD- i will not use just an AB; although to be honest i usually fly them as dual AB/MWD fits. I run dual-drive on Vengeance as well; MWD to catch, AB to hold .. it is impossible to shake off once latched onto a MWD user. Beauty of that solution is that you make some very hard sacrifices to achieve it, loss of midslot and sig-blowout on approach, in other words balance. An arbitrary boost to a class that does not NEED a boost to begin will never not end in imbalance. The mythical 4th bonus is much better used by adding to their already formidable attributes in the form of damage, tracking, range or my personal preference, to think out of the box and use the bonus to give them their own niche. NB: For the record, the reason for my stiff opposition to this idea is that it will make the Ishkur and the Matari AFs the only viable ships in the entire class. Practically all missiles are useless as you exceed 1k/s without signature increase and guns become largely useless dependent entirely on the relative speed. Between ACs tracking and the Ishkur's drones it essentially becomes a non-contest.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.09.17 18:57:00 - [218] If we are going to return to the second golden age of nano, then missiles need to be at least partially un-nerfed. They're already pretty shaky against small fast targets on afterburner. They'll be a lot more shaky against high-speed assault frigates. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Endless Subversion Perkone	Posted - 2009.09.17 19:21:00 - [219] I strongly agree with Cpt Branko on this, probably because I fly solo or in very small gangs exclusively. This proposed AF buff basically makes AFs immune to any of the small ship counters larger ships can field while also making them the top dog small ship class. That's really bad for balanced small gang and solo pvp. Everything needs to have weaknesses and counters and this basically eliminates the AF weaknesses.
Fergus Runkle Minmatar Truth and Reconciliation Council	Posted - 2009.09.17 19:31:00 - [220] Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 17/09/2009 19:32:45 I never quite understood why the assault ships bonuses do not mirror the heavy assault ships. (Or more strictly since the HAC's came after the AF's why the HAC's don't mirror the AF's). For example Jaguar (a-la Vagabond) minnie frigate bonus - 5% to small projectile rof and 5% to velocity per level assault ships bonus - 10% to small projectile falloff and 5% to small projectile damage per level Vengence (a-la sacrilege) amarr frigate bonus - 5% to rocket damage and 5% to armour resistances per level assault ships bonus - 5% reduction in cap recharge time and 5% bonus to missle launcher rof per level [ok rockets would need sorting out for this to be any use] If CCP still want AF's to play this secondary tackler / ab speed tanking role then simply increase the base speed of the ships ... Oh and THIS Originally by: Marlenus If we are going to return to the second golden age of nano, then missiles need to be at least partially un-nerfed. They're already pretty shaky against small fast targets on afterburner. They'll be a lot more shaky against high-speed assault frigates. Lights and rockets both need to be able to hit and do some sort of damage to the targets they are designed to hit for crying out loud.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation	Posted - 2009.09.17 19:36:00 - [221] Tried out several AF. Epic win maybe a small agility bonus like 2.5% per level would be nice -------------------------- WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls.
Armored Contempt	Posted - 2009.09.17 19:39:00 - [222] Actually I tink Fergus has nailed it. If you give the AF's their HAC counter parts bonuses (and something that keeps the ishkur from becoming completely over the top) they might actually become viable again. For example: Vengeance: 5% resists, 5% damage to rockets / 5% damage to rockets (no RoF bonuses on frigates), 5% cap recharge Retribution: 10% cap use, 5% damage to lasers (no RoF bonuses on frigates) / 10% range bonus to small lasers, 5% damage bonus to small lasers Maybe add a 5th turret to the Retri so it becomes a pure damage boat (and people stop complaining about the lack of the second mid).
Grytok Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2009.09.17 20:13:00 - [223] So OK. Logged into SiSi and did some testing. 75% AB-boost is nowhere near overpowered tbh, as you don't break any speedrecords and as soon as you get webbed, you die to a T1-cruiser with a flight of 5 Warrior's. Ishkur with AB and active perma-tank goes some 1200 m/sec (CY-1 hardwiring included). A Jaguar fitted to actually kill something (only 1x Overdrive II + CY-1 and Zor's Hyperlink) does some 1500m/sec. These speeds are not that overwhelming and far from overpowered imho. The speeds are just fine now, to make AFs a little more useful.
RedSplat	Posted - 2009.09.17 20:51:00 - [224] For those of you confused about how to fit your Jag: Dual MSE, Scram and AB II with extender rigs. When you break about 1.1 k m/s with no MWD sig bloom the sig increase from extenders is irrelevant unless you are an EFT warrior alone. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
silly person	Posted - 2009.09.17 20:58:00 - [225] So will there be any change to the Caldari AF weapon bonuses, since a missile and hybrid weapon range bonus is kind of lol for a ship that is supposed to "close range on their targets to bring their damage to bear"?
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.17 21:06:00 - [226] Quote: No. We were able to hit 6-7kms interceptors with frigate guns during the last Nano age... Except 6-7km/s interceptors had a 500% sig bloom.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.17 21:23:00 - [227] Originally by: Grytok Ishkur with AB and active perma-tank goes some 1200 m/sec (CY-1 hardwiring included). A Jaguar fitted to actually kill something (only 1x Overdrive II + CY-1 and Zor's Hyperlink) does some 1500m/sec. These speeds are not that overwhelming and far from overpowered imho. The speeds are just fine now, to make AFs a little more useful. Considering that those speeds are equal to or greater than MWD cruisers that is not fitted for speed I would say it is way over the top. You even had a perma-rep going .. Wont even bother with BC/BS because they are snails in comparison. To catch a MWD cruiser current frigs have to use MWD themselves, thereby blowing their cap and sig all to hell. Without those penalties the combination of speed, tank and damage will just make them far too powerful when compared to other ships. Not as bad as I had feared, but I don't really see the difference in falling only 500m instead of 700m, the outcome is the same.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.09.17 21:26:00 - [228] Originally by: RedSplat I still maintain ONLY the Jaguar should get the AB speed Bonus. Other AF's should get different Boni (yes that's right grammar ***s) Wouldn't that make the jaguar the only AB worth flying? Speed helps in so many ways. And we shouldn't try to fix rockets by tweaking the bonuses on the rocket using ships to make them just barely passable. Rockets themselves need a fundamental overhaul to be decent 'as is' and then the rocket using ships can use their bonuses to actually be good* instead of crap. And retri sill needs a 2nd mid slot and hawk needs to stop being the worst AF in the game (perhaps by making it more damaging than the kestrel, rather than less)
Zastrow J	Posted - 2009.09.17 21:42:00 - [229] Edited by: Zastrow J on 17/09/2009 21:44:05 Of course I think AFs should be tacklers. Frigate hulls aren't dps boats, you bring bigger hulls for dps. Also some of you act like AFs are going to be invulnerable but they're not, they're still as susceptible as ever to being webbed, neuted, or shot with high-tracking guns like those on a destroyer. The point is an AB bonus makes them harder to shake and yep, that's the intention.
Opertone Caldari Monsters	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:07:00 - [230] tested! AFs do not **** hacs! A test of a deadspace shield tanked wolf vs a MWD vagabond. It's impossible to get into scramm range (although I didn't have one), but if you do get under 9 km range, the vagabond can't hit you. A vagabond would require a small neut to scare off the AF and force its tackle to shut off. A vagabond can easily kite an assault frigate and do major damage at 15-20 kms. A vagabond has clear advantage over the AF. Rapier vs shield tanked wolf. Rapier can't win because its DPS isn't sufficient. Two webs bring the AF down to 220 m/s from initial 1442 m/s with AB. Target painter doesn't do much difference, changing the signature from 33 to 42, which is nominal and insufficient to make difference. The AC wolf with two gyrostabs failed to kill the HAC and Recon, it had trouble breakning their passive shield tank.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:25:00 - [231] Edited by: Soporo on 17/09/2009 22:26:47 Originally by: Opertone tested! AFs do not **** hacs! A test of a deadspace shield tanked wolf vs a MWD vagabond. It's impossible to get into scramm range (although I didn't have one), but if you do get under 9 km range, the vagabond can't hit you. A vagabond would require a small neut to scare off the AF and force its tackle to shut off. A vagabond can easily kite an assault frigate and do major damage at 15-20 kms. A vagabond has clear advantage over the AF. Rapier vs shield tanked wolf. Rapier can't win because its DPS isn't sufficient. Two webs bring the AF down to 220 m/s from initial 1442 m/s with AB. Target painter doesn't do much difference, changing the signature from 33 to 42, which is nominal and insufficient to make difference. The AC wolf with two gyrostabs failed to kill the HAC and Recon, it had trouble breakning their passive shield tank. Now take a Caracal with lights and see what happens. Or even a non lolfit Cerb.
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:41:00 - [232] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 22:45:06 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 22:43:05 Originally by: Opertone tested! AFs do not ** hacs! A test of a deadspace shield tanked wolf vs a MWD vagabond. GJ on testing a fail AF (shield tanked wolf? Where's the scram? Right, it's not there. Or the AB is not there). I find that my Jaguar breaks 3km/s heated with a coreli-c type and only 400M of implants which I have on TQ. When you get shot at a broadsword, a moa and a omen and the moa has you webbed and they all can't break you (killed their drones using the web+single MSE fit), well... broken, basically. Broadsword tried firing at virtually any range - did not work for him even at 20km out. Seriously, though, a shield tanked Wolf is not going to stop anything from just leisurely MWD-ing out, or it won't have a AB, making it fail in both cases for your test. Originally by:** Zastrow J The point is an AB bonus makes them harder to shake and yep, that's the intention. It makes them stupidly hard to shake, and they kill your mobility outright. Combine it with the speed they've got, and it's frankly completely OP. Preety much kills roaming in larger ships. At least if you want someone to get you to full stop with little danger to themselves, make people fly a Lach/Arazu, or Keres if it has to be a frig hull. This is just stupid, really. Catching cruisers/BCs/non-Vagabond HACs is so stupidly easy it's not even funny. You outrun them by a very good margin in addition to being much more agile. So on and on. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Pax Empyrean	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:49:00 - [233] Edited by: Pax Empyrean on 17/09/2009 22:55:48 Missiles/rockets are going to be useless against AFs, which is a problem. Rockets are useless already anyway. I suppose now would also be a good time to suggest Tech 2 destroyers meant for combat instead of just dropping bubbles? Assault Frigates will have an extremely high ratio of transversal to sig radius against the target that they're tackling, but a buddy 20 km away from the tackled target will still be able to fire on the AFs without any problems. The transversal advantage works against one ship, or more if they're bumping hulls, but that's it. Spread out a little and you'll be fine. Quote: I find that my Jaguar breaks 3km/s heated with a coreli-c type and only 400M of implants which I have on TQ. When you get shot at a broadsword, a moa and a omen and the moa has you webbed and they all can't break you (killed their drones using the web+single MSE fit), well... broken, basically. ... well, you'll do fine unless the other guy is using 400 million worth of ship/implants against a pair of Tech 1 Cruisers and a Tech 2 ship that does Tech 1 Cruiser damage, none of which have tracking bonuses. Way to show how broken it is, idiot.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.09.17 22:51:00 - [234] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 17/09/2009 22:55:36 This whole thing is very bad for a simple reason: missiles. If you boost AFs like that, you'd need to boost light missiles. Then you'd end up with all the other frigates being ripped to shreds (more then they are already), so you'd need to boost these... AB bonus for all frigates? Complete rework of missile and turret tracking? As Cpt Branko put it, this is just completely OP, and there is no discussing around it, as much as I'd love to enjoy hilariously overpowered frigates a few months.
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.17 23:07:00 - [235] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2009 23:14:04 Originally by: Pax Empyrean Assault Frigates will have an extremely high ratio of transversal to sig radius against the target that they're tackling, but a buddy 20 km away from the tackled target will still be able to fire on the AFs without any problems. (a) Blobbing should not be the answer to every damn thing. (b) You actually won't. I've been shot at a broadsword at 20km for about five minutes with zero effect. While being webbed. The Moa was also keeping range in order to reduce angular. Originally by: Pax Empyrean ... well, you'll do fine unless the other guy is using 400 million worth of ship/implants against a pair of Tech 1 Cruisers and a Tech 2 ship that does Tech 1 Cruiser damage, none of which have tracking bonuses. Way to show how broken it is, idiot. Bloody idiots. If you have the ISK to fly AFs on a regular basis, you have the ISK for some implants, given the chance of losing them out of 0.0 is basically 0. I fly with at least 1B in my head at all times on TQ. Pimping it out by a cheap (even post patch, given they're common as hell) AB is also fine, since it adds 10 mil to a 30m ship+fit, but if you really want to, you can get lol performance out of the simple AB II. I could've used a gistii-A type + HG snaked head and quote 'lol5km/s ab frigate', too - hey, most of the people around here used it back in the nano age, saying how Vagas went 20km/s and it was gamebreaking and so on However, even a unimplanted head means you get to tackle your T1 cruiser/BC - and you get to live while doing so, for a long time - but not just tackle; it can actually solo kill them (which other tacklers generally can't) provided he's not in a complete counterfit and completely kill mobility (which is sort of relevant, if we're playing the same game). At least now if you have to really really stop someone, you have to bring a 150M cruiser on the field, which happens to be sort of vulnerable if something has the range to hit it. Broken? Hell yes. The only broken ship about them on TQ is the complete lack of balance between the AFs themselves and their price. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.17 23:34:00 - [236] Originally by: RedSplat WTB idiotic opponents that cant fit cruisers. I dont think i quite articulated what i mean there- Getting to the target to tackle isnt why you have the AB bonus. You have to AB bonus to make your harder to remove that a demon Tic once you get tackle on something that has already been fast tackled by an interceptor. You don't need an AB bonus for an AB AF to tracking tank medium guns on Tranquility, even while webbed. Try it, really. Only time you will have trouble is against a Cruiser that has a web and AB while you have no web yourself. With the new bonus, you won't have trouble against such a setup even. It removes the option of counterfitting against AF's by using the in many situations inferior AB for cruisers. What the AB bonus does give is the AF an option to disengage said cruisers at all times. Nowadays you are kind of committed when you go close against and MWD cruiser, with the bonus, you can simply move off and outrun it if things don't go as planned. I always like the 'take a risk and go in close, and you might completely destroy the cruiser, or fail or miss the catch and get beaten' thing. I thought CCP design was about commitment to a fight too. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Constantine Merlonne	Posted - 2009.09.17 23:42:00 - [237] Edited by: Constantine Merlonne on 17/09/2009 23:43:05 Originally by: Zastrow J Edited by: Zastrow J on 17/09/2009 15:49:59 Bombers are your dps frigate. Originally by: Zastrow J Edited by: Zastrow J on 17/09/2009 21:44:05 Frigate hulls aren't dps boats, you bring bigger hulls for dps. Though i agree with the fact that AFs deserve some love, I strongly think that this AB boosting solution will cause more problems that it solves, and some other ways may have been privileged, as stated in the posts above. Plus, your line of argument to convince us you're right is quite poor.
Zastrow J	Posted - 2009.09.18 00:14:00 - [238] i actually had it typed out in my 2nd post a parenthetical about bombers but deleted it because i was sure people would realize that bombers are an exception and fill a niche role. welp
Manfred Rickenbocker	Posted - 2009.09.18 00:29:00 - [239] An AB bonus is nice, but not super essential. Has any thought been put toward having a ship that is, if not immune, resistant to E-War as a whole? It seems that the one thing lacking in EVE is a ship that fills this role, and an Assault Frigate would work well. Generally when something is given the moniker "Assault" its supposed to break through enemy lines and take point. This would mean being able to soak up a decent amount of damage and/or be stronger against things liable to disable it. Even in their current non-fourth-bonus-having role they can do a good job of getting under guns and taking a few hits. Their big problem is that if you ECM, Neut, Web or Disrupt them they are dead in the water. If the 75% bonus to AB was changed to a 75% bonus to generic EWar immunity, it'd definitely make them beefier and more likely to be used. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Constantine Merlonne	Posted - 2009.09.18 00:49:00 - [240] Role bonus Amarr : 75% reduction in the amout of capacitor given, when attacked by a successful nosf or neut. caldari : 75% reduction in the chance to be effectively jammed by a successful cycle gallente : 75% reduction of the effectiveness of applyed remote sensor dampening matar : 75% reduction the effectiveness of applyed stasis webbifying. We could imagine for amarr the Retrib with resistance to tracking disruption, it would have some interrest, although small guns can still track the ships which are usually employing TDs, and nosf/neut resist for Vengeance, and follow the same idea for gallente and matars who both use traditionnal 2 E-war modules, but it's kinda difficult to me to imagine an effective gallente AF with resistance to effect of warp scrambling and matar AF with resistance to target painting. Looks cool, looks usefull, looks different for each race, looks better imho than a "hey guys let's totally artificially boost AS". This stuff has prolly been the subject of dozen of threads on this forum, but anything is better than this soulless boost.

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