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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Kell Braugh Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.06 00:38:00 - [511] Anyways, back to tackling after you guys get the sand outta your vag and realize this isn't COAD. The underlying issue is two fold: -- XL Guns (specifically on a huge ship model like a titan), effectively track fast orbiting cruisers-- size difference, this is like an afterburning inty getting vaporised @ 500m by 425mm Rails. -- Due to the above point, Turret based Titans have a HUGE advantage to missile-based titans when defending themselves from sub capital ships, since you can effectively speed tank citadels easily. The issue above is that the tracking mechanics don't scale to titan proportions. A "Heavy Interdictor" was MADE for tackling supercaps, a job that it does damn well till now. Due to the way the ship models work, you have a window of about 2km around a titan that is within 'bubble probe' range but outside of smartbombing range. So the argument of 'just use dictors' pretty much goes out the window. Couple that with the new titans (turrets) being about to 3 volley a HIC (at worst)-- you are effectively left with no reasonable way to tackle a titan with less than about 15 HICs (with great coordination-- if you have 50+ dreads to pop the titan before he wastes you fleet of hics.) If they intend the titan to be a cap killing monster-- fine. A 50% penalty to turret tracking won't hurt it. At least then, we'd limit the titan to killing 1 HIC every 5 minutes (solo with a DD) with is manageable. - In essence, any combat related activity involving damage has been 'speed nerfed' to just take 6 times longer with a predetermined outcome coined balance by CCP.
Ryan Coolness The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.06 09:15:00 - [512] Originally by: ElvenLord Originally by: CCP Abathur The 'slave implant' issue: We're looking at it. I dont see Slave set as a problem Amen to that, slave sets are part of the advantage of armor tanking capitals and shield tanks have their advantages as well, be it natural regeneration which becomes even more useful with the HP boost (far more effort to rep a big chunk of armor back up then shield), 37.5% faction omni-hardeners that can even be overloaded, officer omni-hardeners that surpass anything comparable in the armor sector by far (and again, can even be overloaded on top of that) or stronger burst tanks with less slot use. Take away the slaves from caps and you better give them something like the above advantages as well or it will be unbalanced, but we dont want everysthing to be equal do we?
Yaay Game-Over	Posted - 2009.10.06 13:48:00 - [513] Edited by: Yaay on 06/10/2009 13:56:59 Edited by: Yaay on 06/10/2009 13:51:28 Originally by: Ryan Coolness Originally by: ElvenLord Originally by: CCP Abathur The 'slave implant' issue: We're looking at it. I dont see Slave set as a problem Amen to that, slave sets are part of the advantage of armor tanking capitals and shield tanks have their advantages as well, be it natural regeneration which becomes even more useful with the HP boost (far more effort to rep a big chunk of armor back up then shield), 37.5% faction omni-hardeners that can even be overloaded, officer omni-hardeners that surpass anything comparable in the armor sector by far (and again, can even be overloaded on top of that) or stronger burst tanks with less slot use. Take away the slaves from caps and you better give them something like the above advantages as well or it will be unbalanced, but we dont want everysthing to be equal do we? Shield tanking capitals already have a built in advantage in active tank and PDS effects. 3-4 PDU's in lows on a titan makes for about a 22% boost to shield capacity, adds to passive repair amount while also benefiting capacitor. Shields also get Invul fields which get a higher modifier to all resist than EANs do. I'm not really sure why people emo about slaves, shields have a built in modifier that make them better. It just sucks that most ships in game are armor tankers, especially for PvP, as you will be harder pressed to find a solid RR shield group from carriers unless specifically asked for pre use. It's really amazing how people always forget about PDS though when talking about slaves. But for that tradeoff, Shield boosting capitals get a massive boost to active tanks. It's not hard to get a Shield boosting titan to easily double, if not triple the active tank of a armor repairing titan. DD changes Docking PVP games

CCP Abathur	Posted - 2009.10.06 14:20:00 - [514] Updates: If all goes well then we will be having our Supercapital Madness test on SiSi this Friday. The following changes will be getting pushed to SiSi to ensure we get the best data possible. Moros - Drone bonus only applicable in siege mode. (May get a smaller bonus out of siege.) Siege Module - The tracking penalty on the Siege Module has been removed. XL Turrets - The tracking penalty previously applied by the Siege module has been applied to XL turrets as their base stats. Titan Bonuses - Titans have received the following new bonuses: Avatar: 7.5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret tracking per level Erebus: 7.5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret tracking per level Ragnarok: 7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret tracking per level Leviathan: 7.5% bonus to Citadel Missile velocity per level This is our 'first pass' on balancing with the new changes and we are already looking at a much larger revamp of capital weapons post-Dominion. Continued feedback is welcome and we still have plenty of time to tweak everything between now and December.

Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2009.10.06 15:20:00 - [515] So, what is the new Dread role now exactly? All the capitals have apparently been designed to destroy dreads, and without POS's and the tracking nerf to turret tracking, i'm not quite sure that the point of flying one will be post Domination? ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest)
Louisa Torres Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.06 15:35:00 - [516] Originally by: Pattern Clarc So, what is the new Dread role now exactly? All the capitals have apparently been designed to destroy dreads, and without POS's and the tracking nerf to turret tracking, i'm not quite sure that the point of flying one will be post Domination? tbh I'd be tempted to increase their tracking in Siege mode and make them more anti-bs based, OR give them a larger dmg modifier to make using them to kill pos go quicker.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.10.06 16:07:00 - [517] Originally by: CCP Abathur Titan Bonuses - Titans have received the following new bonuses: Avatar: 7.5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret tracking per level Erebus: 7.5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret tracking per level Ragnarok: 7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret tracking per level Leviathan: 7.5% bonus to Citadel Missile velocity per level One of these things is not like the others. The Leviathan bonus needs to be explosion velocity (or radius) as either of those is the turret equivalent of tracking. Missile velocity is a pretty useless boost in comparison. Also, echoing the concern of dread roles
Pringlescan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 16:15:00 - [518] After the bonus and penalty the titans would have 1/10th of the tracking they used to have which is overkill, either reduce the tracking penalty you just gave them or give them some of the other bonuses associated with the siege mods such as bonuses to tanking. Now what is unacceptable is the nerf this is giving to dreadnaughts. You already are replacing their role as capital damage dealers with the new changes to motherships AND titans, giving them increased risk since now there are mroe ways to do damage to them, and now they can't even shoot people out of siege? Since this change essentially transforms titans from both anti-capital/sub caps to just anti-capitals I would recommend changing the dread bonuses around so they can shoot sub-caps well or reducing the titan tracking penalty to 50% of current nerf values. Let me repeat the one thing dreads need is to be buffed not nerfed again. They are no longer the best capital damage dealer, they are no longer the best tankers, and there is no situation anymore where a dread performs better then any other ship.
Weaselior GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 16:49:00 - [519] Originally by: Pringlescan Now what is unacceptable is the nerf this is giving to dreadnaughts. You already are replacing their role as capital damage dealers with the new changes Most cost-effective capital damage dealer, especially once motherships and titans become hard to produce (expensive). That said, did anyone ever actually use dreads out of siege besides the moros (hey, although we shafted the moros, we promise we'll look at making it up...eventually)
Jarnis McPieksu Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.06 17:11:00 - [520] Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu on 06/10/2009 17:13:52 Originally by: Weaselior Originally by: Pringlescan Now what is unacceptable is the nerf this is giving to dreadnaughts. You already are replacing their role as capital damage dealers with the new changes Most cost-effective capital damage dealer, especially once motherships and titans become hard to produce (expensive). That said, did anyone ever actually use dreads out of siege besides the moros (hey, although we shafted the moros, we promise we'll look at making it up...eventually) Very often. Like in the recent Omam fight - none of the dreads sieged - they acted like massive, jump-capable battleships with the mother-of-all tanks. Why siege if the hostiles come only with subcaps and there is no POS to shoot? This type of fight may be the underlying reason for the nerf, but I really fail to see the problem - you are spending a ton of isk on jump fuel and putting hundreds of billions on the field (anything short of 100+ dreads+carriers and it doesn't really work) - and in case the other side accepts the invitation, you'll get a massive capital bash where billions will most likely go up in smoke. After this nerf, why exactly would anyone deploy dreads over a simple huge BS blob? Especially as there is no Doomsday to fear any more? It is far more mobile, offers immensely better isk efficiency and can deal with any type of target short of multiple supercaps (which themselves can't do that much to subcaps). ...and if dreads stay docked, why would anyone deploy Supercarriers or Titans? They would seem to become effective vs. dreads, except that nobody will deploy dreads unless the target is already quite completely blobbed with subcaps and you have something fixed to shoot - and it must be something pretty tough so that the same BS blob can't just shoot it.

Professor Dumbledore Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 17:20:00 - [521] Originally by: CCP Abathur Updates: If all goes well then we will be having our Supercapital Madness test on SiSi this Friday. The following changes will be getting pushed to SiSi to ensure we get the best data possible. Moros - Drone bonus only applicable in siege mode. (May get a smaller bonus out of siege.) Siege Module - The tracking penalty on the Siege Module has been removed. XL Turrets - The tracking penalty previously applied by the Siege module has been applied to XL turrets as their base stats. Titan Bonuses - Titans have received the following new bonuses: Avatar: 7.5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret tracking per level Erebus: 7.5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret tracking per level Ragnarok: 7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret tracking per level Leviathan: 7.5% bonus to Citadel Missile velocity per level This is our 'first pass' on balancing with the new changes and we are already looking at a much larger revamp of capital weapons post-Dominion. Continued feedback is welcome and we still have plenty of time to tweak everything between now and December. Are you **ing ****ed or something? or did you want to make dreadnaught completely useless at shooting anything that isn't another sieged dreadnaught? Because any moving capitals will be able to out transversal them in non siege now.
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Dominatus Atrum Mortis	Posted - 2009.10.06 17:41:00 - [522] Edited by: Mahke on 06/10/2009 17:46:51 Edited by: Mahke on 06/10/2009 17:43:27 the answer to titan overpowered tracking wasn't to nerf dreads . WTF? Well, at least maybe titan tracking won't be broken overpowered anymore; looking forward to sisi testing reports here as to whether the 7.5% over sieged is still too much or not, although I'd guess from earlier comments it won't be. edit: Originally by: Pringlescan Since this change essentially transforms titans from both anti-capital/sub caps to just anti-capitals I would recommend changing the dread bonuses around so they can shoot sub-caps well or reducing the titan tracking penalty to 50% of current nerf values. No. Titans should be explicitly anti-capital weapons. The problems with doing it the other way should be apparent after the DD age. Furthermore, this is good because it necessitates good subcapital support, rather than just capital/supercap blobs that devalue poorer/lower sp players. Every ship should count: with sub-cap combat capable titan proliferation, that increasingly loses meaning.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.10.06 19:12:00 - [523] Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/10/2009 19:12:39 Originally by: CCP Abathur Titan Bonuses - Titans have received the following new bonuses: Avatar: 7.5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret tracking per level Erebus: 7.5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret tracking per level Ragnarok: 7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret tracking per level Leviathan: 7.5% bonus to Citadel Missile velocity per level Lolz. So three get a tracking bonus, and the Leviathan gets a missile velocity bonus that is not only useless but also inferior to all other missile velocity bonuses in game (10%). Talk about pulling numbers out of the air without any thought... Nice trolling, CCP.
Sertan Deras Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 19:19:00 - [524] Edited by: Sertan Deras on 06/10/2009 19:20:59 CCP: Continuing to find ways to make Dreadnoughts more worthless. Not only do we now get basically one shot by a titan, that we can't kill faster than it can kill blobs of us, we now can't hit sub-caps. Does this mean battleships will now lose the ability to hit cruisers? Will cruisers now lose the ability to hit frigates? Does CCP realize that carriers can already transversal capital guns while in siege? Wait...why would I ask that, they obviously don't play their own game enough to know that. Here's an idea: Don't nerf Dreads to fix your broken ******ed ideas for Titans.
karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 20:36:00 - [525] Edited by: karttoon on 06/10/2009 20:44:41 Watching CCP nerf capital guns so they track 0.8/10 of what they can now (1/10 with Titan V) demonstrates that they have absolutely no vision on what they are attempting to achieve, and this is extremely scary given the number of unknowns, as CCP has limited information sharing to high level details and terrible propaganda. Let's recap: With the original changes Titans given a reason to warp into a giant fight. They were given an impressive damage boost so that they could shoot both capitals and battleships with the firepower of about 2-3 dreads in siege (not including the doomsday). Dreads and motherships could be used to counter and kill titans (and the carriers repping it), and battleships would slowly die unless in face ** range with a good transversal. Tracking was a bit overpowered, but I noticed in testing that most people just sat with 0 transversal anyway. Dreads could, and have always been able to fight battleships in a simular way, and if you're willing to deploy capitals against sub-capitals to tip he balance, so be it. It's not like you can take a dread fleet without support and kill a massive BS fleet without losing most of them anyway. All in all the above scenario sounds like a ton of fun, and supercapital fleets will eventually make hilarious mistakes and explode. If you give a reason for people to deploy titans, you give opportunities for people to blow them up or die horribly trying. Yes 20 MS and 5 titan deployments would take a lot of power to kill, but with a trillion isk at risk you'd expect it to take a lot of ~emergence~ to destroy. This type of ship class escalation forces people to deploy more valuable assets to win a particular fight, while inevitably one side losing everything (if you continue to escalate instead of withdraw) Now: - Dreads have very little role now because there is almost no reason to siege pos's anymore. The only thing left is other capitals (and maybe the super sov thing that CCP hasn't released info on because they have hopefully realized not being able to time them is absolutely ****ed). - Titans are being changed to kill Dreads instead of BS (unless the BS is dumb)... but if dreads are there to kill titans then... oh well lets just ignore that and assume dreads are deployed to bait titans so that they can kill them. - Motherships can kill both BS and Dreads, which probably means they are now much more useful than Titans, but any decent anti-support fleet can kill fighters with ease anyway. - Even if dreads were deployed, why deploy a titan when the DPS is 3 dreads worth where the titan is 40bil of minerals + fittings + build risk. The EHP buff is nice, but it's not like they are that difficult to kill with a sizable dread fleet (1-2 minutes with commonly seen large dread fleet sizes). - So the changes went from BS's and capitals taking heavy losses to only capitals, so capitals not really being able to affect a BS fleet (with hacs to kill fighters). So why would you deploy a capital fleet anymore except to assign fighters? Sounds like fun. - Why build titans at all when the cost of the hull alone could be used for at least 1000 T2 fit BS replacements. So essentially the plan of CCP is to nerf capitals to the point where the greater number of BS's dictate who wins a particular fight (and kills all of your capitals). In the end, people just won't deploy capitals or supercapitals, and 200+ man fleet BS blobs will dictate any battle (unless Cefte/Vee is in system). Ignoring the fact that my capital pilots will just stop playing, Sounds rather boring. Seleene, based on your 0.0 background, you're ironically r e t a r d e d with even suggesting these recent changes.
Bos Tess69 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 20:56:00 - [526] Edited by: Bos Tess69 on 06/10/2009 20:57:23 Originally by: CCP Abathur Updates: Moros - Drone bonus only applicable in siege mode. (May get a smaller bonus out of siege.) Siege Module - The tracking penalty on the Siege Module has been removed. XL Turrets - The tracking penalty previously applied by the Siege module has been applied to XL turrets as their base stats. This is the most poorly thiught out answer to a supposed overpowered ship with the current SiSi numbers I have seen in a long time. Why would you ever dream about nerfing dreads to "fixup" the current titan changes, anyone would think you had completely forgotten everything you ever learn about 0.0 warfare and turned into an empire pubbie. Why would I put my dread into the field ever, with these changes and the new lack of POS to shoot, nobody will field dreads as the otherside never has a reason to field them either.
Brennah GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 20:57:00 - [527] Originally by: karttoon Edited by: karttoon on 06/10/2009 20:54:05 :words: It's like watching NGE all over again :munch:
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:13:00 - [528] Originally by: karttoon Edited by: karttoon on 06/10/2009 21:11:27 Watching CCP nerf capital guns so they track 0.8/10 of what they can now (1/10 with Titan V) demonstrates that they have absolutely no vision on what they are attempting to achieve, and this is extremely scary given the number of unknowns, as CCP has limited information sharing to high level details and terrible propaganda. Let's recap: With the original changes Titans given a reason to warp into a giant fight. They were given an impressive damage boost so that they could shoot both capitals and battleships with the firepower of about 2-3 dreads in siege (not including the doomsday). Dreads and motherships could be used to counter and kill titans (and the carriers repping it), and battleships would slowly die unless in face ** range with a good transversal. Tracking was a bit overpowered, but I noticed in testing that most people just sat with 0 transversal anyway. Dreads could, and have always been able to fight battleships in a simular way, and if you're willing to deploy capitals against sub-capitals to tip he balance, so be it. It's not like you can take a dread fleet without support and kill a massive BS fleet without losing most of them anyway. All in all the above scenario sounds like a ton of fun, and supercapital fleets will eventually make hilarious mistakes and explode. If you give a reason for people to deploy titans, you give opportunities for people to blow them up or die horribly trying. Yes 20 MS and 5 titan deployments would take a lot of power to kill, but with a trillion isk at risk you'd expect it to take a lot of ~emergence~ to destroy. This type of ship class escalation forces people to deploy more valuable assets to win a particular fight, while inevitably one side losing everything (if you continue to escalate instead of withdraw) Now: - Dreads have very little role now because there is almost no reason to siege pos's anymore. The only thing left is other capitals (and maybe the super sov thing that CCP hasn't released info on because they have hopefully realized not being able to time them is absolutely **ed). - Titans are being changed to kill Dreads instead of BS (unless the BS is dumb)... but if dreads are there to kill titans then... oh well lets just ignore that and assume dreads are deployed to bait titans so that they can kill them. - Motherships can kill both BS and Dreads, which probably means they are now much more useful than Titans, but any decent anti-support fleet can kill fighters with ease anyway. - Even if dreads were deployed, why deploy a titan when the DPS is 3 dreads worth where the titan is 40-55bil of minerals + fittings + build risk. The EHP buff is nice, but it's not like they are that difficult to kill with a sizable dread fleet (1-2 minutes with commonly seen large dread fleet sizes). - So the changes went from BS's and capitals taking heavy losses to only capitals, so capitals not really being able to affect a BS fleet (with hacs to kill fighters). So why would you deploy a capital fleet anymore except to assign fighters? Sounds like fun. - Why build titans at all when the cost of the hull alone could be used for at least 1000 T2 fit BS replacements. So essentially the plan of CCP is to nerf capitals to the point where the greater number of BS's dictate who wins a particular fight (and kills all of your capitals). In the end, people just won't deploy capitals or supercapitals, and 200+ man fleet BS blobs will dictate any battle (unless Cefte/Vee is in system). Ignoring the fact that my capital pilots will just stop playing, I guess this could make things amusing at least until it gets extremely boring. Seleene, given your 0.0 background, you're ironically r e t a r d e d with even suggesting these recent changes. I can't wait to see the sov mechanics, as I'm fairly certain you haven't even figured them out yet. For me i simply couldn't of put t better myself. KIA EVE Home KIA in game Public Channel "KIA"** KIA are Currently recruiting active PvP minded players. Contact SentryRaven
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:30:00 - [529] not to douche up this thread but in the big wars you can get a 200-bs fleet together and rf a tower with them from sniping range just fine so unless outposts have SO MANY HP that you MUST deploy dreads to contest them, you won't see dreads hit the field in most cases csaa takedowns will be bs-only because you can dodge the jammer takedown issue pro move is to make stations practically speaking a dread-required thing Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
Zastrow GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:31:00 - [530] Edited by: Zastrow on 06/10/2009 21:32:38 I support karttoon's post. I get that dreads are supposed to be the shootin-a-structure ship, and that's their defined role.. but it doesn't mean that it should be their ONLY possible role. Narrowing their scope this much will make them really just not worth it. edit: p.s. like every one of the past 6 or 7 posts is a goonfleet director (not eddz he's like a mascot or something) Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint

KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:35:00 - [531] Originally by: Zastrow Edited by: Zastrow on 06/10/2009 21:32:38 (not eddz he's like a mascot or something) GIMME A G! ... KIA EVE Home KIA in game Public Channel "KIA" KIA are Currently recruiting active PvP minded players. Contact SentryRaven

CCP Abathur	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:36:00 - [532] I'm going to quote myself because many seem to be ignoring this bit: Quote: This is our 'first pass' on balancing with the new changes and we are already looking at a much larger revamp of capital weapons post-Dominion. Continued feedback is welcome and we still have plenty of time to tweak everything between now and December. Do not take every post we make here as the 'final word'. In essence, we're not done yet. One of the main reasons for the big test on Friday is so we can actually see these new values in action. We would not be staging such a test unless we intended to continue balancing. Don't assume that these changes are about making Titans into 'super dreads' or more effective against X or Y. What we have in Titans is a ship that's in need of a proper role in EVE. Even with the changes to the doomsday, we do not see that role as being specifically about combat. Just because Titans have traditionally been giant sub-cap fleet destroying smart bombs does not mean a similar role with big guns is their future. The goal right now is to render them at least combat capable but not necessarily omnipotent. The ultimate goal of Titans may very well be something more valuable than it's ability to just blow stuff up! On the Dread 'nerf' - The stats on XL weaponry have not been touched literally since they were first authored. The more we look into this area the more convinced we are that the entire line needs a good looking at. This means giving the 'short range' weapons proper optimal ranges, looking at the current 'long range' weapons and possibly introducing an option for missile users as well. We are working the issues, reading feedback and setting up opportunities for all of you to test things out early on before it all lands on TQ.

karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:42:00 - [533] Edited by: karttoon on 06/10/2009 21:42:23 If you are basing 0.0 changes and balancing decisions around a bunch of random people throwing around ships risk free on a test server, who mostly have limited 0.0 experience, we are in deep ****.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:43:00 - [534] Quote: Like in the recent Omam fight - none of the dreads sieged - they acted like massive, jump-capable battleships with the mother-of-all tanks. Why siege if the hostiles come only with subcaps and there is no POS to shoot? Maybe thats the reason they are getting kicked in the butt? If you arent going to siege why do you even bring dreads? Oh yea - because they are bigger and better (to a degree) battleships. Now you can bring carriers instead. And hope enemy doesnt get a clue and doesnt bring dreads+carriers combo. At least some counters appear instead of bringing more dreads+ even more carriers. Plus you can always bring support fleet with you. As for titans: uhh, leviathan --> explo velocity or explo radius...
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:43:00 - [535] but srsly regardless of titans outposts need to be so heavy in hp that you /must/ deploy dreads against them, or dreads simply will not be fielded (and thus motherships and titans won't, either) hth! Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:48:00 - [536] Afaik there are also sov markers and sov marker jammers (the thingies to start breaking sov). And i guess those too will have decent HP. Otherwise spam + quick mop with battleships would happen every day.
Fuujin GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:50:00 - [537] I believe we're offering feedback: its just rather negative at the moment. That titans need a role besides/in lieu of "grid killa" is a given. However in the rush to give it one don't forget you're also radically altering the role of the dreadnaught with the sov changes. By requirement, every dread pilot can use a battleship with excellent proficiency. So if you're going to give a dread a role to play, it has to be something unique/better suited to doing than a battleship can do. Otherwise, as mentioned, you'll just see large battleship blobs. Easier to replace, cheaper to fly, far more versatile and more effective in general. The convenience of jump drive is easily replaced with a titan bridge. Dreads are vulnerable to subcaps, to supercarriers, and to titans. They can pose a threat to supercaps if they are in large numbers, but anything fewer than several dozen of them are useless in that regard now. If you go forward with the tracking changes, give siege mode a BONUS to tracking and explosion velocity/radius. Make it so a dread in siege is a fearsome beast to everything on the field larger than a cruiser.
Brennah GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:52:00 - [538] Serious post time. When you announced the overview of what was coming in Dominion, sov changes, supercap changes etc, I figured CCP had a vision and outline of what they wanted to accomplish. As more has come out I no longer think you have a clear plan but are instead making it up as you go along hoping something sticks. I fear that the end result is we're going to get a pile of broken crap that is going to make the game not fun for people who have invested years into training the ships you are changing. I hope I am mistaken, and I hope you can give us a better idea of what you want for the ships you are changing, their intended roles and how the changes follow these goals?
Professor Dumbledore Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 22:28:00 - [539] Originally by: CCP Abathur I'm going to quote myself because many seem to be ignoring this bit: Quote: This is our 'first pass' on balancing with the new changes and we are already looking at a much larger revamp of capital weapons post-Dominion. Continued feedback is welcome and we still have plenty of time to tweak everything between now and December. Do not take every post we make here as the 'final word'. In essence, we're not done yet. One of the main reasons for the big test on Friday is so we can actually see these new values in action. We would not be staging such a test unless we intended to continue balancing. Don't assume that these changes are about making Titans into 'super dreads' or more effective against X or Y. What we have in Titans is a ship that's in need of a proper role in EVE. Even with the changes to the doomsday, we do not see that role as being specifically about combat. Just because Titans have traditionally been giant sub-cap fleet destroying smart bombs does not mean a similar role with big guns is their future. The goal right now is to render them at least combat capable but not necessarily omnipotent. The ultimate goal of Titans may very well be something more valuable than it's ability to just blow stuff up! On the Dread 'nerf' - The stats on XL weaponry have not been touched literally since they were first authored. The more we look into this area the more convinced we are that the entire line needs a good looking at. This means giving the 'short range' weapons proper optimal ranges, looking at the current 'long range' weapons and possibly introducing an option for missile users as well. We are working the issues, reading feedback and setting up opportunities for all of you to test things out early on before it all lands on TQ. Nothing was ignored you were just doing something stupid again. You can't make a role defining change for a ship and then just to meh its not final and not given reasons, explanations or anything of the sort and said well its not final yet. What this means is you have no idea what it is your doing your simply grasping at straws with no plan and hope it turns out okay. And if your doing this 2 months before this ** it supposed to go live there is no way in hell it will be ready or tested properly before it goes live. Which means your going to ** up the game once again. I'm totally gonna win that $100 bet i made.
Weaselior GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.06 22:36:00 - [540] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Afaik there are also sov markers and sov marker jammers (the thingies to start breaking sov). And i guess those too will have decent HP. Otherwise spam + quick mop with battleships would happen every day. a stealth bomber can take those things out



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