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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 09:42:00 -
[361]
yaay you dont have to commit equal numbers to kill a titan. You have to commit equal or nearly equal numbers/gear to win a fight.
Today if a side can get 200 dreads on the field and the otherside 50 or even 100 who is gona win the fight and with what cost?
Its gona be the same but the low on numbers side gona be able to kill a titan and equal their losses. ________________________________________________
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LoveKebab
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 09:47:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Zeveron I remember a KIA(?) Leviathan with a similar setup dieing in less than a minute. That setup costs as much as a backup ship. Sold vepas inv for 8b (could have sold it for 9-10b but he was a friend) and a thons inv for 4b. Add to that the amps and pdus + the rest and you have the full picture.
yes i remember that titan ... he died after he logged of AFTEr he jumped to the system and was surrounded by dozen dreads ... oh and yea, he didnt turn his hardeners on but that wouldnt save him anyway, TQ titans are dieing under 5 minutes to dreads easly xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.25 10:01:00 -
[363]
someone please give yaay some rohpynol :p
there is a lot of strange theorycrafting in this thread, people are losing sight of the intended effect of the changes and the practical implications of them
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~bitter dog~
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GB Immensea
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.09.25 10:06:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Butter Dog someone please give yaay some rohpynol :p
there is a lot of strange theorycrafting in this thread, people are losing sight of the intended effect of the changes and the practical implications of them
QFT!
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Lag Generator
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.09.25 11:02:00 -
[365]
Edited by: Lag Generator on 25/09/2009 11:03:42
Originally by: Zeveron yaay you dont have to commit equal numbers to kill a titan. You have to commit equal or nearly equal numbers/gear to win a fight.
Today if a side can get 200 dreads on the field and the otherside 50 or even 100 who is gona win the fight and with what cost?
Its gona be the same but the low on numbers side gona be able to kill a titan and equal their losses.
IIRC there hasn't been 200 dreads on the field per side fighting... ever? Raising this many people in capitals involves lots of logistics and a massive CTA, which the opposing side can then choose to stand down from, resulting in no battle. On the other hand, getting a hold of just a handful pilots in titans, given similar firepower, is massively easier.
Hell, a corporation could as well sell 9 of their capital pilots out of 10 and buy a titan for the remaining dude, significantly increasing combat effectiveness.
also lol at the usefulness of HICs reduced to provide wrecks for warpin points of regular dictors. Verily the regular dictors are nigh indestructible.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 11:27:00 -
[366]
It dont have to be a hic, even a ceptor can do the job for the dics. And I am waiting 30 titans to drop on a 100 dread fleet, at least 3 of them gona die :-) ________________________________________________
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.25 11:36:00 -
[367]
I will just copy-paste from 3 pages back:
(about killing titans with 4356348795639 dreads because every alliance can bring that much to a field):
Quote: Plus how are you gonna use dreads in cyno jammed systems? Neither you nor any other poster in this thread responded to the issue: 2-3 titans+dozen (or 2 dozen) carriers on the jammer. How do you remove them?
Im STILL waiting for response hypocrite dudes.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 11:39:00 -
[368]
Quote: Im STILL waiting for response hypocrite dudes.
Well since it so easy.... get the non capital system first where there is no jammer. No capital system, no jammer, no problem ________________________________________________
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Lag Generator
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.09.25 12:54:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Lag Generator on 25/09/2009 12:57:58
Originally by: Zeveron It dont have to be a hic, even a ceptor can do the job for the dics.
That must be a troll.
Quote:
And I am waiting 30 titans to drop on a 100 dread fleet, at least 3 of them gona die :-)
What are the chances of 30 titans showing up with zero carriers or motherships to accompany them?
edit: Never mind, even without carriers or just a handful of titans instead of 30, none of them are gonna die, since it's impossible to tackle any of them, so they'll simply warp out if taking damage.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 13:16:00 -
[370]
Quote: edit: Never mind, even without carriers or just a handful of titans instead of 30, none of them are gonna die, since it's impossible to tackle any of them, so they'll simply warp out if taking damage.
I dont understand where exactly you base the fact that titans cannot be tackled. You have about a minute do get a warpin point for your dics. The dictor bubbles and leaves then it comes back and drop a bubble again, repeat till titan is dead. If the dictor dont warps out in 40s (titan needs that much to lock) and 5-6 voleys to kill, then its a fail dictor pilot. And dont come with the support argument, bcs we have support today also :-) Today you have less than 15s and they ARE getting tackled even with the full grid clear out. ________________________________________________
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LoveKebab
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 13:31:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Zeveron
Quote: edit: Never mind, even without carriers or just a handful of titans instead of 30, none of them are gonna die, since it's impossible to tackle any of them, so they'll simply warp out if taking damage.
I dont understand where exactly you base the fact that titans cannot be tackled.
maybe because there is not a single HIC that can survive a DD ? and ontop of that who is willing to put a titan on the field without a proper support to keep it NOT tackled ? xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.25 13:32:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Zeveron
The dictor bubbles and leaves then it comes back and drop a bubble again, repeat till titan is dead.
BWAHAHAHHAHAHHA. Sonny, you NEVER flown a dictor it seems.
Also you are still playing dumb and saying about solo titan. Solo titan is dead titan. We are talking about fleets here, not imaginary fight from sisi.
Quote: Today you have less than 15s and they ARE getting tackled even with the full grid clear out.
Interesting. Because as far as i know only few titans died after DD because they got tackled on the field. One of those was tri titan which got caught ONLY because it got bumped by other one (2 titans 1 cyno). Rest were killed either by metagaming or sheer luck (decloaking titan 200km off gate, decloaking it while landing at pos etc).
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 13:47:00 -
[373]
Since I am bored at work I am not resting my case yet. You guys mean that the titan can lock 1 (!!!!!!!!!!!) dictor or hictor and fire its new DD to kill it? Now it can whipe them out of the grid. If the dictor/hictor cannot warp out b4 the titan locks and fire he is just a fail pilot.
I wonder how many dictors can survive a single dd blast today. And how many hics will survive 2x DDs today. And how many dictor bubbles gona be up and standing after the 2nd or at worst case the 3rd dd. And since 5 titans on a large fleet are common today, that fleet has 2 more DDs to spare :-)
After the patch titans should rely on their support to clear the dics/hics. The hics/dics gona have an easier job to do tackling them.
And btw I doubt after the patch dreads are gona be used to kill titans. BS fleets gona do the job with a suicide neutralizer close range bs gang to kill titans cap. So the new DD is gona be useless on them. Eve gona evolve with the dominion same as the tactics.
Pls guys explain me your reasoning :-)
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.25 13:59:00 -
[374]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/09/2009 13:59:08
Originally by: Zeveron Since I am bored at work I am not resting my case yet. You guys mean that the titan can lock 1 (!!!!!!!!!!!) dictor or hictor and fire its new DD to kill it?
No. I mean you have problems with reading comprehension. Read my previous post again. And then yet again. And re-read it as long as it takes for you to understand it.
Quote:
And how many hics will survive 2x DDs today.
Depends on DD types but most fleet HICs are setup to tank 2x DD (maybe not all 2x DD types but 3 combos of 4).
Quote:
After the patch titans should rely on their support to clear the dics/hics. The hics/dics gona have an easier job to do tackling them.
Way to contradict yourself. Bravo! Actual support fleet firing on dictor makes it life WAY shorter. So does titan + support fleet firing on HIC. As HICs were PRIMARY tacklers vs titans their role just got reduced by allowing titans to fire on them. Oh yea and i wish you luck keeping bubbles up for 10-15 minutes on titan using normal dictors. On average (against decent support fleet) this is equal to 10-30 dead dictors.
Quote:
BS fleets gona do the job with a suicide neutralizer close range bs gang to kill titans cap.
LMAO. I love those fantasyland stories. To kill titan you need to deal enough DPS to remove his all EHP before he vanishes (if he decides to logoffski). Your "neutralizer bs" attempt will be in vain if titan logs. You wont kill him fast enough.
Anyway if you bring BS titan is good enough to wipe the floor with them. If you add support (like i said 10-20 carriers) then you arent going to kill it with battleships. Period.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 14:12:00 -
[375]
If a titan logs and you cannot kill it in 15 mins you just fail. Even with the imaginary setups posted here with 50-60m ehps I ve seen many times dreads 1 cycle a pos. Even with triage carrier support.
And if a titan cannot be tackled (as you guys say here) whats the point of loging off? Titans gona be easier to get tackled after the patch, since nothing changed on that matter and they cannot kill everything on grid, but they have to stay longer on grid b4 they can warp out. You gona need more fire power to kill them, but you gona see more beeing used and more dead titans. And they gona be harder to replaced.
As far as the bss as titan killers we gona see.
Now its time to rest my case me thinks. ________________________________________________
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.25 14:22:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Zeveron If a titan logs and you cannot kill it in 15 mins you just fail.
i hope you can kill POS with bs fleet in 15 minutes. Because its the same amount of HP we are talking about. Or maybe you didnt know this?
Quote:
Even with the imaginary setups posted here with 50-60m ehps I ve seen many times dreads 1 cycle a pos. Even with triage carrier support.
Oh look, reading comprehension still fails in this one. Did it occur to you that i was talking about BATTLESHIP fleet? Exactly same YOU proposed?
Quote:
And they gona be harder to replaced.
Lol. Only for you. Im quite sure NC, PL or goons wont have any problems building new titans. you know - they actually have SYSTEMS that can do this :)
Quote:
As far as the bss as titan killers we gona see.
Lmao. i love this. Do you know why people are trying to get balanced ships before they hit TQ? To stop similiar things happening like DD-thru-cyno. Ofc you should know this. And ofc its better to say "lets wait and see" when my ship is overpowered in hopes it gets like that to TQ.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.25 14:27:00 -
[377]
I think I have to post with an alt next time :-)
I rest my case, you right, titans are gona be overpowered. Just nerf them to obvilion, so no1 gona use them on field. ________________________________________________
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Constantine Merlonne
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:57:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Zeveron you gona see more beeing used and more dead titans.
i think that's EXACTLY what's cool :)
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Serena Ku
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:16:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Serena Ku on 25/09/2009 17:17:15 :popcorn:
Can we please get back to real-universe testing and suggestions please? This thread is turning into some sort of laughable CAOD-like smack.
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Cupdeez
Out of Order Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:16:00 -
[380]
This is my thing..
a Fitted Dread cost about 1.8 billion
a Titan not including fittings is about 60-70 billion
1 Titan vs 30 dreads how many dread can the titan kill before it dies and is 30 dreads even enough?
Lets say it killz:
15 dead dreads (15*1.8) = 27 billion 20 dead dreads (20*1.8) = 36 billion 25 dead dreads (25.1.8) = 45 billion
You do this a few times with a titan and it will pay for it self over and over again. Really what it comes down to is if someone has a titan on the field you need 80+ dreads or titan & 50 + dreads.
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.25 20:32:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Cupdeez This is my thing..
a Fitted Dread cost about 1.8 billion
a Titan not including fittings is about 60-70 billion
1 Titan vs 30 dreads how many dread can the titan kill before it dies and is 30 dreads even enough?
Lets say it killz:
15 dead dreads (15*1.8) = 27 billion 20 dead dreads (20*1.8) = 36 billion 25 dead dreads (25.1.8) = 45 billion
You do this a few times with a titan and it will pay for it self over and over again. Really what it comes down to is if someone has a titan on the field you need 80+ dreads or titan & 50 + dreads.
I really wish people would stop having ******ed arguments like what 1 titan vs 100 dreads would be like.
Problem is the cluster**** that is nap pacts and how titans can proliferate and encourage larger groups.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.09.25 20:34:00 -
[382]
It is pointless to argue in this forum and I hope devs realise whats going on here. Just go through this thread and look at corps and alliances of people who are trying to nerf the titans even more. They are all alliances that have none and unlikely to get any either so they are trying to screw those alliances that do have them by making them useless. This threat is 99% politics and 1% attemps to balance things.
Anyone who ever actually used a titan whould know that this is a gigantic nerf to titans in many ways. Just the fact that now people no longer even try to justify nerfing 1 titan but arguing that 10 titans are over powered speaks for itself.
Why dont you try to build 10 titans than, 1.5 years later, let me know how balanced they are.
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.25 20:58:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Mc Leech It is pointless to argue in this forum and I hope devs realise whats going on here. Just go through this thread and look at corps and alliances of people who are trying to nerf the titans even more. They are all alliances that have none and unlikely to get any either so they are trying to screw those alliances that do have them by making them useless. This threat is 99% politics and 1% attemps to balance things.
Anyone who ever actually used a titan whould know that this is a gigantic nerf to titans in many ways. Just the fact that now people no longer even try to justify nerfing 1 titan but arguing that 10 titans are over powered speaks for itself.
Why dont you try to build 10 titans than, 1.5 years later, let me know how balanced they are.
So the PL guys, and the goonswarm guys are in alliances that have no titans now?
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.09.25 21:03:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Yaay
So the PL guys, and the goonswarm guys are in alliances that have no titans now?
They are the 1% that are trying to balance things, they are not the ones making completely ridicules scenarios and theories.
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.09.25 21:08:00 -
[385]
Edited by: Yaay on 25/09/2009 21:09:19
Originally by: Mc Leech
Originally by: Yaay
So the PL guys, and the goonswarm guys are in alliances that have no titans now?
They are the 1% that are trying to balance things, they are not the ones making completely ridicules scenarios and theories.
You're right, which is why you ignore the 1 v500 dread arguements, and the 1 v 30 dictors arguements.
But there are 2 very key issues that are relevant. No ship in game should have a 1 shot kill weapon on a ship that by nature is static like a dread. All other ships have a possibility to avoid it, even if it's a slim possibility; dreads do not.
Also, Unless that particular point is addressed, the titan guns tracking needs to be adjusted.
I think the DD needs to be looked at no matter what. I'm 50/50 on the tracking issue depending on how strong the DD end's up being. I personally like the damange Titans are doing with the normal guns and would be happy with their tracking IF the DD wasn't 1 shot killing dreads that can't avoid it. Let em kill unsieged dreads in 1 shot, let em kill carriers in 1 shot, but Siege is supposed to equal tank for the loss of mobility.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.25 21:15:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Mc Leech
Originally by: Yaay
So the PL guys, and the goonswarm guys are in alliances that have no titans now?
They are the 1% that are trying to balance things, they are not the ones making completely ridicules scenarios and theories.
So 1-2 titans + 10-20 carriers defending jammer is "ridicules scenarios and theories"? So 4-6 titans on field is "ridicules scenarios and theories"? Also logoffski with titan is "ridicules scenarios and theories"?
Because all those already happened in the past. And nothing stops it from happening again with new titans.
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Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.09.25 21:40:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
So 1-2 titans + 10-20 carriers defending jammer is "ridicules scenarios and theories"? So 4-6 titans on field is "ridicules scenarios and theories"? Also logoffski with titan is "ridicules scenarios and theories"?
Because all those already happened in the past. And nothing stops it from happening again with new titans.
Yes those are all ridicules scenarios, right now 4 titans on cyno jammer is 100 times wores, and yet somehow cyno jammers die just fine. I have seen entire capital fleets log off in the middle of the battle and I dont see you complaining about it. The fact that some pilot some day might or might not survive loging of with agro is a very silly topic. He would be taking a gigantic risk loging off with agro and if he by some miracle survives the more power to him, bring a bigger fleet next time.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.25 22:26:00 -
[388]
I would advise you to leave your mud hole in the east and actually fly a bit more around eve, you might be totally surprised what happens in this game and you werent aware of it.
No, right now 4 titans on jammer is not "worse". This is 4x dd which you can evade by warping off. New 4x titan on jammer = 40000 dps = same damage 100 fleet battleships deal. So you get 100 fleet battleships in 4 ships which are 3-5x harder than cyno jammer itself to knock down and compared to 100 fleet battleships they can take much more punishment. AND on top of that their ability to deal damage doesnt go down with damage. Thus they are much better defenders in "gun + death ray" version than DD version ever was.
Also logging off while being attacked by mid sized fleet should end up in titan dying. New titan will not die. Not only it can wait out for support (if it ever comes) but can actually kill itself mid sized BS gang (with mid sized im talking about 60bs or so). And if your only response is "bring more people" then something is already wrong. Sorry but numbers cant be response to EVERY issue in this game. And at the moment it is.
Also like i said before: why are you so scared about 1 hour aggro timer? Are you planning to have GTFO-logofski card? If no then its not a problem at all. Pos up/cloak for one hour and you are clear.
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Dianabolic
Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.09.25 22:47:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire I would advise you to leave your mud hole in the east and actually fly a bit more around eve, you might be totally surprised what happens in this game and you werent aware of it.
No, right now 4 titans on jammer is not "worse". This is 4x dd which you can evade by warping off. New 4x titan on jammer = 40000 dps = same damage 100 fleet battleships deal. So you get 100 fleet battleships in 4 ships which are 3-5x harder than cyno jammer itself to knock down and compared to 100 fleet battleships they can take much more punishment. AND on top of that their ability to deal damage doesnt go down with damage. Thus they are much better defenders in "gun + death ray" version than DD version ever was.
Also logging off while being attacked by mid sized fleet should end up in titan dying. New titan will not die. Not only it can wait out for support (if it ever comes) but can actually kill itself mid sized BS gang (with mid sized im talking about 60bs or so). And if your only response is "bring more people" then something is already wrong. Sorry but numbers cant be response to EVERY issue in this game. And at the moment it is.
Also like i said before: why are you so scared about 1 hour aggro timer? Are you planning to have GTFO-logofski card? If no then its not a problem at all. Pos up/cloak for one hour and you are clear.
Perhaps if you posted with a character that wasn't in Viziam and we could see just where your bias was we could make more accurate assumptions of your motive?
As it is, the legionxxxdeath guy has more credence than you, because we know where he stands.
You, are an alt.
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.25 22:59:00 -
[390]
He was a member of Triumvirate until recentlly, not so hard to check corp history.
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