| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 32 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
   |
Posted - 2009.09.23 17:05:00 -
[301]
Edited by: Grut on 23/09/2009 17:07:11
 Originally by: GB Immensea
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom
I think Titans will need more effective health, even considering the boost you already gave them.
Sure. 1 hour aggro timer at the same time, ok?
Stop thinking in terms of logging off... the issue is even with the new HP boost, titans will still die to a typical modern alliance capital fleet. Seriously, 30-50 sieged dreads will melt the thing before it can even refire. Boosting the HP a little more will give titan pilots more reason to deploy them, and thus more titan kills for any competent and determined enemy.
The funny thing apart from the suggestion that a single ship on its own should be able to tank 30 players in dreads for 5 mins is that ..... it can!
Dread DPS = 5000 ish so 30 of 'em do 45mil damage in 5 mins, titans are pushing way more then that so you should be able to get that 2nd shot off.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Xetal Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 18:23:00 -
[302]
Quote:
a single ship on its own should be able to tank 30 players in dreads for 5 mins
Look at it from a resource standpoint. How many Dreads can you build/buy with the same resources that it takes to produce a Titan?
Now in that 30 v 1 scenario, the Titan kills what, maybe 3-5 of the dreads before it is brought down, assuming it can survive just long enough to fire it's new DDD a second time?
|
Johnny Silvertongue
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 19:49:00 -
[303]
Suggestion:
Maybe make the "deathray" doesnt do damage instantly but over time. Like starting with a bit damage and then increase the damage exponential over time for 1 min. So the attacked ship wont pop instantly and will have time to adjust to the situation.
|
Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 21:16:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom
Quote:
a single ship on its own should be able to tank 30 players in dreads for 5 mins
Look at it from a resource standpoint. How many Dreads can you build/buy with the same resources that it takes to produce a Titan?
Now in that 30 v 1 scenario, the Titan kills what, maybe 3-5 of the dreads before it is brought down, assuming it can survive just long enough to fire it's new DDD a second time?
Just no.
If cost = performance mechanics are used he who spends more wins. This is what WOW does, and it ain't any good there.
Judging by the current stats 1 titan ~ 20 dreads on ehp * damage. With one titan that looks pretty off as you've noted but these guys stack VERY well, once you hit a critical mass you lose active tanking effects and 20-1 isn't isn't far wrong.
So 10 "titaned" players being equal to 200 of the closest shiptype approaching a counter.... yay. 30 Titans would be countered by 600 odd caps - has there even been a fleet that big before 
You'll end up with having to level up (get a titan) to have any effect serious effect on fleet PVP, and 50 bil isk is a hell of a lot of goblin bashing to do.
I think the meta game comments are pretty accurate, alliances arn't going to deploy cap fleets much less titans without clear numbers advantages, so build mor titans is the name of the game unless you find someone smaller to stomp.
Its just plain lame game dynamics.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Silvero
Gallente
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 21:27:00 -
[305]
Edited by: Silvero on 23/09/2009 21:27:18
Originally by: Grut
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom
Quote:
So 10 "titaned" players being equal to 200 of the closest shiptype approaching a counter.... yay. 30 Titans would be countered by 600 odd caps - has there even been a fleet that big before
LOL
Even if the Titans was allowed to shoot first the reminding 570 dreads whould melt does 30 titans before half the 5 min timer was out.
|
Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 21:57:00 -
[306]
Whatever you do ccp:
YOU NEED TO BOOST THE CPU ON THE LEVIATHAN AND RAGNAROCK
___
Fear the french touch.
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 23:27:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Silvero
Edited by: Silvero on 23/09/2009 21:29:16
Originally by: Grut
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom
Quote:
So 10 "titaned" players being equal to 200 of the closest shiptype approaching a counter.... yay. 30 Titans would be countered by 600 odd caps - has there even been a fleet that big before
LOL
Even if the Titans was allowed to shoot first the reminding 570 dreads whould melt does 30 titans before half the 5 min timer was out.
And i think 1 titan still will die to 20 dreads don't you ?
1st of all u will never see 500 dreads on 1 side, 2nd of all titan will NOT die to 20 dreads, it can easly logoff and it will disapear after 15 minutes with no problem whatsoever...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
DrJ Zoidberg
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 03:26:00 -
[308]
Originally by: LoveKebab
1st of all u will never see 500 dreads on 1 side, 2nd of all titan will NOT die to 20 dreads, it can easly logoff and it will disapear after 15 minutes with no problem whatsoever...
That's questionable, assuming the titan has 60M EFHP, and each dread does 4000 DPS, it'll take 20 of them 12.5 minutes to kill it. By the time the titan pilot hits ctrl+q he's probably already taken some damage. That's not exactly what I would call a worry-free logoffski with a 50+ Bn isk ship.
|
Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 03:32:00 -
[309]
ROFL this is better than comedy central, so the latest tin foil hat goes to who ever invented the formula EHP*dps*DD = 20 dreads. How that works no one knows must be the work of those marsians.
How about 1 titan = 2 Jesus Crists + 3 Gandalfs + 2 Luke Skywalkers?
A titan has armor of about 5 dreads even on test and DPS of about 3-4 dreads + DD that does 3 million damage every 5 min and thats 10k more dps. This means that 1 titan is at most equal to about 6 dreads not 20.
If you going to make some wild theorycrafting at least care to back it up with some numbers or fraps from test server where you pwn 20 dreads in your titan.
|
Xetal Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 03:32:00 -
[310]
Quote:
Just no.
If cost = performance mechanics are used he who spends more wins.
Look at a t3 cruiser and then look at a Maller. Which one wins, they're both cruiser hulls afterall... and you think that cost shouldn't be a factor.
I'm not suggesting that a Titan be 40 times stronger than a Dreadnought, even if they cost 40 times more resources. I'm suggesting that a Titan be worth building.
Your vision of "resources don't matter" would mean that nobody would build a Titan. Bigger, more expensive ships need to perform better than smaller, cheaper ships... or nobody would bother with the big expensive ships.
The way that makes sense, and that you see over and over again in Eve is this: More advanced ships are stronger than less advanced ships, but not proportional to their resource cost. So that t3 cruiser may cost 40 times more than a fit Maller, and it certainly is much stronger than one... but not 40 times stronger.
I think you would need a similar approach with Titans.
Quote:
1st of all u will never see 500 dreads on 1 side, 2nd of all titan will NOT die to 20 dreads, it can easly logoff and it will disapear after 15 minutes with no problem whatsoever...
I'd say that is a problem completely unrelated to balancing Titans against other capital ships. Not to downplay that it is a problem, just saying that it isn't the problem at hand.
|
|
|
Serena Ku
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 04:29:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Serena Ku on 24/09/2009 04:36:11
Originally by: Mc Leech
Edited by: Mc Leech on 24/09/2009 03:39:17
ROFL this is better than comedy central, so the latest tin foil hat goes to who ever invented the formula EHP*dps*DD = 20 dreads. How that works no one knows must be the work of those marsians.
How about 1 titan = 2 Jesus Crists + 3 Gandalfs + 2 Luke Skywalkers?
A titan has armor of about 6 dreads even on test and DPS of about 3-4 dreads + DD that does 3 million damage every 5 min and thats 10k more dps. This means that 1 titan is at most equal to about 6 dreads not 20.
If you going to make some wild theorycrafting at least care to back it up with some numbers or fraps from test server where you pwn 20 dreads in your titan.
Indeed, I was getting annoyed at the wild theorycrafting posts here. Realistically titans have about 20-30m EHP with max skills and pimped officer gear. The "60m EHP" talk is getting out of hand, if a pilot does not actually fly a titan and is posting here... please kindly walk away. The PL pilot who managed to do 40m+ EHP on an Erebus class had top-of-the-line gear, max mindlinked gang bonuses, bizzare hybrid tank fit, and Titan level 5.
Aeons and Wyverns are already hitting well above 50m EHP without lolfits and these ships are meant to stay on the battleground; the same is intended for titans despite slightly lower EHP.
Get real guys, stop the whinning posts, and think of ways to actually be able to deploy them in the battlefeild and have both sides enjoy the fights.
|
Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 04:57:00 -
[312]
Anyone still knows the siege cannon in homeworld ? that thing was ubber and took real skill to use.
I would have loved to see something similar in skill like an AOE weapon that isnt whole grid based (was lame anyway) but a single target is rather a really poor change however to the better but still not what a superweapon should be like.
The siege cannon in homeworld got it allll right the devs could learn something from that.
Greetings Grim |
Serena Ku
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 05:01:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Johnny Silvertongue
Suggestion:
Maybe make the "deathray" doesnt do damage instantly but over time. Like starting with a bit damage and then increase the damage exponential over time for 1 min. So the attacked ship wont pop instantly and will have time to adjust to the situation.
I like this idea. It makes the victim sweat it out and try to warp out; makes the battle more intense. This will also reduce the use of the doomsday on unnecessary killing spree on ships like HACs, effectively focusing it's useage on the intended role... killing capital ships.
|
Zeveron
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 06:52:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Whatever you do ccp:
YOU NEED TO BOOST THE CPU ON THE LEVIATHAN AND RAGNAROCK
This :-)
________________________________________________
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 11:05:00 -
[315]
Originally by: DrJ Zoidberg
Originally by: LoveKebab
1st of all u will never see 500 dreads on 1 side, 2nd of all titan will NOT die to 20 dreads, it can easly logoff and it will disapear after 15 minutes with no problem whatsoever...
That's questionable, assuming the titan has 60M EFHP, and each dread does 4000 DPS, it'll take 20 of them 12.5 minutes to kill it. By the time the titan pilot hits ctrl+q he's probably already taken some damage. That's not exactly what I would call a worry-free logoffski with a 50+ Bn isk ship.
i know im repeating myself but ship has also reps and within that 12.5minutes it can rep roughly 1milion armor and probably 1.5m shields so im pretty sure it will be able to survive for that 15 minutes with no problem under 20 dreads ;>
Originally by: Mc Leech
A titan has armor of about 6 dreads even on test and DPS of about 3-4 dreads + DD that does 3 million damage every 5 min and thats 10k more dps. This means that 1 titan is at most equal to about 6 dreads not 20.
If you going to make some wild theorycrafting at least care to back it up with some numbers or fraps from test server where you pwn 20 dreads in your titan.
u ever heard about ISK Efficiency ? price of a dread equals price of 20 dreads and 20 dreads CANT kill titan under 15 minutes, titan cant pwn 20 dreads either ...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
iP0D
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 11:24:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Zeveron
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Whatever you do ccp:
YOU NEED TO BOOST THE CPU ON THE LEVIATHAN AND RAGNAROCK
This :-)
That AND taking another good look at Citadel torp use for the Leviathan, not to mention the mysterious case of shield deficiencies with the increase of raw hitpoints 
|
Serena Ku
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 12:14:00 -
[317]
Originally by: LoveKebab
u ever heard about ISK Efficiency ? price of a dread equals price of 20 dreads and 20 dreads CANT kill titan under 15 minutes, titan cant pwn 20 dreads either ...
Last I checked Atlas, GoonSwarm, AAA, ROL, RA and many others had way more than 20 dreads. 
|
Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 13:36:00 -
[318]
Originally by: LoveKebab
u ever heard about ISK Efficiency ? price of a dread equals price of 20 dreads and 20 dreads CANT kill titan under 15 minutes, titan cant pwn 20 dreads either ...
So you saying that noob ships are > titans because they are free?
And yes 20 dreads can very esily kill a titan, not the imaginary titan with 100 billion worth of fit in a gang with erebus, leviathon and best gang bonuses possibe vs t1 fitted dreads, but a more reasonable scenario.
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 14:21:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Mc Leech
Originally by: LoveKebab
u ever heard about ISK Efficiency ? price of a dread equals price of 20 dreads and 20 dreads CANT kill titan under 15 minutes, titan cant pwn 20 dreads either ...
So you saying that noob ships are > titans because they are free?
And yes 20 dreads can very esily kill a titan, not the imaginary titan with 100 billion worth of fit in a gang with erebus, leviathon and best gang bonuses possibe vs t1 fitted dreads, but a more reasonable scenario.
ofc they can kill it, just how long it gonna take ? 20 minutes ? 30 ? cuz certainly aint gonna be under 15 minutes...
btw - why 100bil fit when u can have decent one for under 10bil for armor tankers and under 20bil for shieldtankers ? (yes i know, invuls are expensive)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:48:00 -
[320]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/09/2009 17:49:41
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: LoveKebab
u ever heard about ISK Efficiency ? price of a dread equals price of 20 dreads and 20 dreads CANT kill titan under 15 minutes, titan cant pwn 20 dreads either ...
Last I checked Atlas, GoonSwarm, AAA, ROL, RA and many others had way more than 20 dreads.
Last time i checked noone used 1 titan on the field anymore. It was more around 4-6 titans (even if you saw 2 on field 2 more were in reserves). So how many alliances can field odd 80-120 caps to be "on par" within 5 minutes notice? Afaik PL barely fields 60-80. Goons same. So do others. Only "coalitions" are able to drop that many of dreads yet alliances alone can easily throw 4-6 titans.
Plus how are you gonna use dreads in cyno jammed systems? Neither you nor any other poster in this thread responded to the issue: 2-3 titans+dozen (or 2 dozen) carriers on the jammer. How do you remove them?
I also personally love how you say that to counter 30 titans you brig 600 dreads, 30 dreads die, 570 kill titans. And this coming from ex-bobbit who managed to gather barely over 100 caps for one fight (im pointing at e-o fight here). And yes bringing 30 titans on one field is infinitely easier than bringing 600 dreads.
EDIT:
as for aggro timer. Thank Mostly Useless alliance who actually did logoffski titans vs roaming gangs multiple times while being tackled (thats in cyno jammed systems). Yes this is the issue. Why should you get another gtfo card just because you have more EHP? If you have aggro just cloak and afk or log in poss, but logging on field and surviving is stupid.
|
|
|
Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:00:00 -
[321]
Originally by: LoveKebab
ofc they can kill it, just how long it gonna take ? 20 minutes ? 30 ? cuz certainly aint gonna be under 15 minutes...
Care to make it a bet? We provide 20 dreads on test you provide a titan, if we kill it under 15 min we get Tri titan on traquility...
|
Yilo
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:23:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Zeveron
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Whatever you do ccp:
YOU NEED TO BOOST THE CPU ON THE LEVIATHAN AND RAGNAROCK
This :-)
As a levi pilot i¦d like to quote this cause its true :)
|
miltom
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:25:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Yilo
Originally by: Zeveron
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Whatever you do ccp:
YOU NEED TO BOOST THE CPU ON THE LEVIATHAN AND RAGNAROCK
This :-)
As a levi pilot i¦d like to quote this cause its true :)
It isnt fair for the erebus and avatar to come with whatever fitting they want while i cant fit 6 guns and a capital shield booster without destroying my fitting. God forbids i¦d do a drift and fit a cop procesor and the rag...
|
Doctor Feelgood
Gallente
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 21:58:00 -
[324]
i'm interested to see what sort of effect this would have on a POS. even with 35m shields on a POS it seems like the bonuses and damage of the super caps will completely crush a large POS in a short time.
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 22:29:00 -
[325]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 24/09/2009 22:34:02
Edited by: LoveKebab on 24/09/2009 22:29:50
Originally by: Mc Leech
Originally by: LoveKebab
ofc they can kill it, just how long it gonna take ? 20 minutes ? 30 ? cuz certainly aint gonna be under 15 minutes...
Care to make it a bet? We provide 20 dreads on test you provide a titan, if we kill it under 15 min we get Tri titan on traquility...
u got it sir...
am i allowed to fight back?
p.s. - tri does not have a titan on TQ anymore :D every titan pilot left alliance ^^
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Yaay
Game-Over
|
Posted - 2009.09.25 00:20:00 -
[326]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Edited by: LoveKebab on 24/09/2009 22:34:02
Edited by: LoveKebab on 24/09/2009 22:29:50
Originally by: Mc Leech
Originally by: LoveKebab
ofc they can kill it, just how long it gonna take ? 20 minutes ? 30 ? cuz certainly aint gonna be under 15 minutes...
Care to make it a bet? We provide 20 dreads on test you provide a titan, if we kill it under 15 min we get Tri titan on traquility...
u got it sir...
am i allowed to fight back?
p.s. - tri does not have a titan on TQ anymore :D every titan pilot left alliance ^^
I'm not sure he realizes that a titan under 40km of virtually any dread can break the tracking of that dread. Furthermore, I don't think he realizes that he won't have 20 dreads, he'll have 19 dreads as 1 will be dead the moment the fight starts.
Not to mention another will die in 5 minutes, a 3rd will die in 10 minutes.
I further expect that he is unaware that sometime in that 10 minute span a 4th dread will die to the titans guns.
I'm sure someone will throw in the cap warfare card, or the titan killer card, or some kinda crazy fit. And well, I think they'll forget that trying something that is a 1 trick pony only works for 1 trick. Capital warfare doesn't allow for that card to be played very well.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
DrJ Zoidberg
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
|
Posted - 2009.09.25 02:04:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Yaay
I'm not sure he realizes that a titan under 40km of virtually any dread can break the tracking of that dread. Furthermore, I don't think he realizes that he won't have 20 dreads, he'll have 19 dreads as 1 will be dead the moment the fight starts.
Not to mention another will die in 5 minutes, a 3rd will die in 10 minutes.
I further expect that he is unaware that sometime in that 10 minute span a 4th dread will die to the titans guns.
I'm sure someone will throw in the cap warfare card, or the titan killer card, or some kinda crazy fit. And well, I think they'll forget that trying something that is a 1 trick pony only works for 1 trick. Capital warfare doesn't allow for that card to be played very well.
Another funny thing is that a leviathan or a Rag can tank about 4-6 dreads without overheated a mod or using a boost. boosters and overheating give it a 3 minute period where it can tank about 15-20 dreads w/o losing a HP.
The issue I was referring to was titan pilots logging off in the face of 20 dreads. Their buffers are huge, but not that huge.
|
GB Immensea
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2009.09.25 02:20:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Mc Leech
Originally by: LoveKebab
ofc they can kill it, just how long it gonna take ? 20 minutes ? 30 ? cuz certainly aint gonna be under 15 minutes...
Care to make it a bet? We provide 20 dreads on test you provide a titan, if we kill it under 15 min we get Tri titan on traquility...
This has already been proven twice, and in both cases the titan had full officer tank fit. It simply dies under 15 mins against 18-20 dreads not to mention a sizeable subcap gang bumping and shooting at it, it also had more than 6 HICs on it.
|
GB Immensea
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2009.09.25 02:25:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Doctor Feelgood
i'm interested to see what sort of effect this would have on a POS. even with 35m shields on a POS it seems like the bonuses and damage of the super caps will completely crush a large POS in a short time.
This also has been tested. The results we came up with was:
Small POS dies to 1 titan in 10 mins.
Large POS dies to 1 titan in 1 hour.
Both POS were unhardened Minmatar towers and we had a thermal damage dealing DD (Erebus) shooting it with permission on the test server. This was mentioned to CCP and they said they would look into it since nobody wants to get a ded mail to find out its already RF'd.
|
GB Immensea
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2009.09.25 02:44:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
If you have aggro just cloak and afk or log in poss, but logging on field and surviving is stupid.
I completely agree; titans are no longer meant to be used with nano fits, drive by doomsdays, and gtfo when Dominion comes. So such lame fail tactics will be less used and probably only be used in extreme suprise situations.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 32 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |