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CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
16
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.
Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.
We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
779
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
CraftyCroc wrote:The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.
Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.
We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.
It certainly is.
Talk to their CEOs/directors.
Maybe they'll oblige you by footing the cost for the war.
From their end it will be much cheaper.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
480
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 18:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.
Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Cavel Avada
0igital Anarchy
Sev3rance
13
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
695
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.
WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
91
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.
Why is that? Why should some people pay more than others? Better yet, why should people with little resources pay more than people with a lot of resources. Alliances are too cheap and easy to start and maintain. If I can have a solo alliance of my own, I consider this feature to be bugged.
If you can carebear in null all day every day with your 1k ratters and plex runners, there should be at least some risk in your game when you're going to move your spoils to Jita to get rich off of.
War deccing an alliance should have no cost. |
Phugoid
Black Horse Enterprises-International
21
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic. WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.
masternerdguy, lemme correct you if i may :)
1) Germany did not declare war on Europe. They, along with Russia, invaded Poland, which caused England and France to declare war on Germany. Even tho Russia 2 weeks later invaded eastern Poland, England and France ignored that fact. In the British and French eyes, it was not OK for Germany to invade Poland, but they had no issue with the Russian invasion of the other half of Poland. Go figure.
2) For almost a year after this "declaration of war", England and France basically did nothing, especially the French. The result was an easy an conquest of western Europe by Germany, once western Poland was conqured. By this time Russia had all of eastern Poland, but England and France had no problem with that.
3) When Japan attacked the US (Pearl Harbor) almost 2 years later, the US declared war on Japan of course. The US would still have NOT have gone to war in Europe even at the time, had Germany not declared war on the US (a big mistake by Germany)...
sorry for the off topic of the OP..... :)
-áObergruppenfuhrer |
SetrakDark
DarkCorp Capital Group
DarkCorp Imperium
42
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
The reasoning is that you are, in effect, "buying" targets. The more targets you want, the more you have to pay. If you can't afford enough targets with your small population, pool your resources with similar people, which the effect being that you are providing more counter-targets in turn.
It's a sensible system for what CCP is trying to do, not so much for the traditional hisec wardec corp; but **** those guys anyway, they're the reason the mechanics were changed in the first place. |
CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
16
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Posted - 2012.06.11 22:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:
It certainly is.
Talk to their CEOs/directors.
Maybe they'll oblige you by footing the cost for the war.
From their end it will be much cheaper.
We're funding the dec- sometimes Diplomacy will not work unless it's at Gunpoint
Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.
Ridiculous
War is expensive yes - ships get lost/supply chains get broken/ammo gets shot (the list goes on)
10 man corps should be able to dec whoever they need - as should 1000 strong alliances
To put it in dumb:
300m a week wtf
THE L0CK wrote:Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.
Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.
Stand strong brother
Vicky Somers wrote:Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic. War deccing an alliance should have no cost.
Agreed .. The war should be the cost
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XavierVE
Reasonable People
Of Sound Mind
156
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Posted - 2012.06.11 22:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
The new test server "fixes" so that larger entities have an even greater advantage with war-decs is beyond the pale. We haven't seen dev favoritism on this level since the t20 incident, and even that probably wasn't as blatant as the pile of **** they just dropped on the test server to favor alliances that CCP holds in high regard.
CCP had been changing for the better and making the game more balanced in regards to war-decs, now we're back to the same old garbage, changing the rules to benefit the largest alliances because they whined and cried that smaller entities found a way to even the playing field.
And the dev closed the thread because he didn't like the feedback he was getting. Going back to the usual old arrogance that spawned the Incarna riots. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1019
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Posted - 2012.06.11 22:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Make an alt corp. Wardec it, have the other side join as an ally.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
XxDEATH SN1PAxX
Kopasas
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.06.11 23:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic. WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.
And were Europe carebears?
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Laktos
Gunpoint Diplomacy
132
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
I support this crafty message.
Latest PVP Video: Perseverance
Sard Caid does not endorse this message. |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
348
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic. WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.
War deccing a superior force is and should be expensive, but the cost shouldn't be the "declaration". it should be the execution of the war.
But then again, if we got rid of sentry guns and CONCORD, then we wouldn't need war decs, now would we?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness
Psychotic Tendencies.
1127
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Posted - 2012.06.13 04:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
I just wish the war dec mechanic and all other associated mechanics with it were refined and intuitive. Fun for both sides and gave everyone a rock hard boner when thinking about war decs in this game.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
10
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Posted - 2012.06.13 04:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
CraftyCroc wrote:Vicky Somers wrote:Cavel Avada wrote:I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic. War deccing an alliance should have no cost. Agreed .. The war should be the cost
|
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1617
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.
Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.
highsec pvp =/= small gang warfare
its a lot closer to a pillowfight with anal retentive referees.
TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Xulgar
Gunpoint Diplomacy
0
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Signing in support of all things CraftyCroc related. |
Ryuichi
Gunpoint Diplomacy
0
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Anytng that confuses our head diplomate any more than usual must be a bad thing. |
Jhango Fett
Armada Ministry Defence
Fidelas Constans
3
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
If 300 mill is an issue for you I suggest you do not start wars. |
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CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
21
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Posted - 2012.06.13 08:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jhango Fett wrote:If 300 mill is an issue for you I suggest you do not start wars.
The dec is live. The cost is excessive |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
311
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Posted - 2012.06.13 08:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
[quote=SetrakDark]The reasoning is that you are, in effect, "buying" targets. The more targets you want, the more you have to pay.
This is tantamount to arguing that a boxing match betwwen Muhammad Ali and Shoji Oguma would have been a fair fight on the grounds that Oguma had a bigger target to hit.
You want fries with that? |
Artimis kraw
Black Rebel Rifter Club
1
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Posted - 2012.06.13 08:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
I approve of this message from the Croc.
And lol at FCON. |
Pahah Pahineh
Universal Ally
0
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Posted - 2012.06.13 09:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
The only thing it should cost to declare war is the cost of the gun, the bullets and the pen and paper you write the declaration on.
If CCP have managed to kill tactical mobster wars in hisec, you can absolutely be sure they did it on purpose to protect the interest of large alliances who are tired of having to deal with unsafe practices in what they feel should be safe space areas.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
CraftyCroc wrote:The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.
Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.
We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.
You know you could avoid all this cost if you looked for targets outside of highsec. I know plenty of places you could go with you're small gang and get good fights. Try -A- renter space, where ever the Agony guys are, Delve, or better yet come see us we like fights. Of course you can't really play station games or have neutral logistics out there but I'm sure you weren't using any of those filthy highsec tactics, right?
If nothing else these wardec changes will remove some of EVE detritus and that's a good thing. |
CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
21
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:CraftyCroc wrote:The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.
Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.
We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not. You know you could avoid all this cost if you looked for targets outside of highsec. I know plenty of places you could go with you're small gang and get good fights. Try -A- renter space, where ever the Agony guys are, Delve, or better yet come see us we like fights. Of course you can't really play station games or have neutral logistics out there but I'm sure you weren't using any of those filthy highsec tactics, right? If nothing else these wardec changes will remove some of EVE detritus and that's a good thing. E: I should add none of this "we'll get your haulers in highsec" BS means anything because any semi-intelligent alliance knows to use NPC alts.
We live in low sec. Generally we do not bother with war dec's as we are not bothered about being -10. The reason we have dec'd the alliance in question is because they fight with little skill but in large numbers. Generally we are engaging 5vs50.
Note they also expect us to take gcc and will not engage unless they have more ECM boats then we have ships. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
CraftyCroc wrote:
We live in low sec. Generally we do not bother with war dec's as we are not bothered about being -10. The reason we have dec'd the alliance in question is because they fight with little skill but in large numbers. Generally we are engaging 5vs50.
Note they also expect us to take gcc and will not engage unless they have more ECM boats then we have ships.
If you're all -10 and in low sec then why are you whining about wardecs? Gate/station guns can't possibly be that much of a problem to warrant a wardec. It sounds like you need to recruit more people and escalate the situation if you want to deal with them or go fight someone else that you can handle. Instead of whining about wardec fees. |
CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
21
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:CraftyCroc wrote:
We live in low sec. Generally we do not bother with war dec's as we are not bothered about being -10. The reason we have dec'd the alliance in question is because they fight with little skill but in large numbers. Generally we are engaging 5vs50.
Note they also expect us to take gcc and will not engage unless they have more ECM boats then we have ships.
If you're all -10 and in low sec then why are you whining about wardecs? Gate/station guns can't possibly be that much of a problem to warrant a wardec. It sounds like you need to recruit more people and escalate the situation if you want to deal with them or go fight someone else that you can handle. Instead of whining about wardec fees.
I have very quickly checked your killboard and noticed you are an amateur.
I will however entertain your troll by offering a response:
5 vs 50? Yes gate guns are an issue.
Tool. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
225
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
You heard the bee.
Blob up, biaches.
Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
231
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Posted - 2012.06.13 13:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Let me get this straight, you seriously think that the only thing that is going to stop you from losing a 5 vs 50 fight against an ECM blob is getting a wardec to stop the gateguns? Man I've been doing my solo and small gang stuff all wrong. |
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