The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.

Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.

We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.

I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.

I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.

WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.

It certainly is.

Talk to their CEOs/directors.

Maybe they'll oblige you by footing the cost for the war.

From their end it will be much cheaper.

I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.

Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.

Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.

War deccing an alliance should have no cost.

WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.

WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.

Agreed .. The war should be the cost

Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.

Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.

If 300 mill is an issue for you I suggest you do not start wars.

The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.

Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.

We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.

You know you could avoid all this cost if you looked for targets outside of highsec. I know plenty of places you could go with you're small gang and get good fights. Try -A- renter space, where ever the Agony guys are, Delve, or better yet come see us we like fights. Of course you can't really play station games or have neutral logistics out there but I'm sure you weren't using any of those filthy highsec tactics, right?

If nothing else these wardec changes will remove some of EVE detritus and that's a good thing.

E: I should add none of this "we'll get your haulers in highsec" BS means anything because any semi-intelligent alliance knows to use NPC alts.

We live in low sec. Generally we do not bother with war dec's as we are not bothered about being -10. The reason we have dec'd the alliance in question is because they fight with little skill but in large numbers. Generally we are engaging 5vs50.

Note they also expect us to take gcc and will not engage unless they have more ECM boats then we have ships.

If you're all -10 and in low sec then why are you whining about wardecs? Gate/station guns can't possibly be that much of a problem to warrant a wardec. It sounds like you need to recruit more people and escalate the situation if you want to deal with them or go fight someone else that you can handle. Instead of whining about wardec fees.

Let me get this straight, you seriously think that the only thing that is going to stop you from losing a 5 vs 50 fight against an ECM blob is getting a wardec to stop the gateguns? Man I've been doing my solo and small gang stuff all wrong.

Let me get this straight, you seriously think that the only thing that is going to stop you from losing a 5 vs 50 fight against an ECM blob is getting a wardec to stop the gateguns? Man I've been doing my solo and small gang stuff all wrong.

Jeez, what fun to see Gunpoint Diplomacy crying on the forums. Why don't you just gank a few more mackinaws in Teon? You'll be able to afford the war with the big newbie alliance you want to fight.

I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.

I have very quickly checked your killboard and noticed you are an amateur.

I will however entertain your troll by offering a response:

5 vs 50? Yes gate guns are an issue.

Tool.

no, unrealistic is paying a fee above your actual war materials expenses.

How much did Germany pay to wardec Poland?

Goonswam is known for its excellent solo pvp, so this confuses me.

no, unrealistic is paying a fee above your actual war materials expenses.

How much did Germany pay to wardec Poland?

The only thing it should cost to declare war is the cost of the gun, the bullets and the pen and paper you write the declaration on.

If CCP have managed to kill tactical mobster wars in hisec, you can absolutely be sure they did it on purpose to protect the interest of large alliances who are tired of having to deal with unsafe practices in what they feel should be safe space areas.

300m a week wtf

Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.

Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.

What exactly is stopping all you small gangs from going into 0.0 and hunting for targets? There are plenty of idiots out there you can find.

What exactly is stopping all you small gangs from going into 0.0 and hunting for targets? There are plenty of idiots out there you can find.

What exactly is stopping all you small gangs from going into 0.0 and hunting for targets? There are plenty of idiots out there you can find.

go spend a day hunting for targets in syndicate

your pvp choices are:

crash 20+ man fleets into each other
camp gates in the hope that a single ship or small gang (chuckle) comes through
play endless station games with null bears with supercaps
bait -n- blop people like you who think that small gang warfare is thriving in null

the only small gangs we see down there are out of towners and bait fleets

Don't want to provide targets for hot-drops (or cold drops or even medium drops) probably. Also - people probably have no wish to provide "content" for bored 0.0 corps...

It sounds like you ~elite~ high sec pvpers are just whining about having to do things differently. Gee now doesn't that sound like the same old song the high sec miners sing maybe you all need better coping skills. Maybe CCP should require high sec dwellers to take a coping skills training mission.

I've done plenty of small gang in Syndicate its not that hard to find targets it just takes patience. Also you do know you aren't just restricted to Syndicate right. You can go to Providence and Delve which both have lots of targets. You're choosing to play station games in nullsec which is just plain stupid. If you're dumb enough to fall for drops then well I guess you are the victim of natural selection.

E: Can't forget -A- renter space they make good targets too.



It sounds like you ~elite~ high sec pvpers are just whining about having to do things differently. Gee now doesn't that sound like the same old song the high sec miners sing maybe you all need better coping skills. Maybe CCP should require high sec dwellers to take a coping skills training mission.

Fight 1

Fight 2

Fight 3

The battle reports are bugged - the above is about 6 different engagements. If you check our losses - generally the highest damage was from gate/station guns.

Mr Harari has already commented on the level of small gang pvp goonswarm are known for so i'll not comment further




We can afford the war - that is not the issue. The issue is the cost is excessive.

Don't want to provide targets for hot-drops (or cold drops or even medium drops) probably. Also - people probably have no wish to provide "content" for bored 0.0 corps...

That's a pretty funny way of phrasing "we don't like getting shot at"

The war dec system was put in place to let them continue their fight in highsec and that it became a gang-banger tool was pure happenstance and didn't follow said plan.

the big alliances with there CSM chairmen have maneuvered it such that they have all the control in the game now (Tin hat on).

Shockingly, among those thousands of members, a few of us solo. This is clearly shocking. In other news, engaging on stations and gates with guns will cost you ships. This is apparently news to a super pvp setup like Gunpoint. Good job guys. Does the fact that I've never lost a ship to gate guns or station guns at any point that I remember make me somehow better at lowsec pvp than your whole corp/alliance/hugbox? If so I'm very sorry.

Yes because telling you to stop whining about wardec fees instead of actively working to improve your situation via already available in-game mechanics is trolling. You are no different from the miners that whine for a change from CCP so they don't have to actually think about fitting their hulks and instead can just always fit for max yield.

E: Even better your big "MY KILLBOARD" is over wanting to dec a newbie corp like eve-uni how ~elite~ pvp of you.

What is it with you goons. Every post you have made in this thread has been pathetic.

I have never engaged a goon flying solo. If you do solo then good for you. I am sure you will agree it is much more challenging and fun than following a fleet of a hundred + pilots clicking F1 when instructed to do so.

I congratulate you on having never lost a ship to gate guns/station guns. I also have never lost a ship to these. Therefore in answer to your question of whether or not having never lost a ship to station guns makes you better than the whole of gunpoint - No it does not.

The whole thing is easy to sum up without the back and forth.

Goons Win again, CCP has decided to back the largest alliance in the game. Everyone else got screwed. The End.

That's, like, your opinion, man.

I'm willing to bet you have never fought in a fleet battle with 1000 people on grid. I can tell this because you operate on some delusion that large fleet pvp is all "press F1 on the count of 3." I'm sure you could explain the intricacies of an interceptor, interdictor, one of several types of recons, combat probing in a cloud of 1000 ships, managing 30+ logistics with a logistics anchor, and all of the other features of "press F1" warfare and at which point the F1 key comes into play.


Alright, now you just have to apply your own brilliance for not dying to station and gate guns to figure out how to keep your corpmates from dying to those gate and station guns without needing to whine at CCP to save you. HTFU

we expect to lose a metric ton of assets due to shear numbers weighed against us but our kb stats do not define us and no one will get a bollocking for losing a cynabal and LG snake clone either, just get trolled to no end.

go spend a day hunting for targets in syndicate

your pvp choices are:

crash 20+ man fleets into each other
camp gates in the hope that a single ship or small gang (chuckle) comes through
play endless station games with null bears with supercaps
bait -n- blop people like you who think that small gang warfare is thriving in null

the only small gangs we see down there are out of towners and bait fleets

Pretty much. Goons were sick of getting harassed by constant decs. They are primarily carebears so this is understandable.

To win Eve you have to keep your pilots more entertained than the other guy. As long as you have pilots willing to login and throw ships at the enemy, you can keep fighting for ever. You lose when your morale cracks.

I love the linear thought process that goes into devising this conspiracy theory.

CCP makes it that the cost of a wardec is based on the number of members in the defending alliance.
Goonswarm has the most members of any alliance, therefore they'd benefit the most (ignoring that they live in lawless space).
Therefore, Goonswarm must have convinced CCP to put in this mechanic.

bravo guys

I love the linear thought process that goes into devising this conspiracy theory.

CCP makes it that the cost of a wardec is based on the number of members in the defending alliance.
Goonswarm has the most members of any alliance, therefore they'd benefit the most (ignoring that they live in lawless space).
Therefore, Goonswarm must have convinced CCP to put in this mechanic.

bravo guys

2) You are incorrect. I spent 3 months in a large alliance - flying in fleets ranging from several hundred to over a thousand. I was very good at anchoring... i was often the first to find the anchor and click orbit. (I tended to only have the anchor in my watch list which made this task simple). I was also VERY good at pressing F1. I would select the primary I was given and then fired all of this whilst maintaining a near perfect orbit on my anchor. The reason I left ? Little or no skill was involved. I then moved on to smaller corps and started to PVP in a genuine manner. Small corps breed pvp pilots - large alliances breed sheep/robots w/e. Regardless, each to his own.

3)You are still missing the point entirely, but then I have already deduced you are a muppet and so I will try and explain once more. The gate guns are not an issue by itself. Fighting outnumbered whilst taking gcc is a problem. The war dec has mitigated this.

Yep, you reached down from camping Jita and slaps us in Dek where we were ratting.

Come on, you can at least get a ship with a cloak in to camp, right? I mean .... come on, a T1 frigate or something won't hurt your wallet that bad.

I love the linear thought process that goes into devising this conspiracy theory.

CCP makes it that the cost of a wardec is based on the number of members in the defending alliance.
Goonswarm has the most members of any alliance, therefore they'd benefit the most (ignoring that they live in lawless space).
Therefore, Goonswarm must have convinced CCP to put in this mechanic.

bravo guys

So what alliance benefits the most from the War dec changes?
What alliance was having their wardecs attract massive numbers of allies to there enemys in droves?
What alliance gains the most from the super nerf to the ally system?
What alliance realized that with so many wardecs they were out manned in Hi-sec?
So what alliance would most want them removed?

Welcome to Goonswarm online, the game built to protect one set of Nullbears.

You should change your name to Broken Record.

Cause you sound like one.

So what alliance benefits the most from the War dec changes?
What alliance was having their wardecs attract massive numbers of allies to there enemys in droves?
What alliance gains the most from the super nerf to the ally system?
What alliance realized that with so many wardecs they were out manned in Hi-sec?
So what alliance would most want them removed?

Welcome to Goonswarm online, the game built to protect one set of Nullbears.

How goes The Trade Guild's wardec against Goonswarm now that you made it mutual and permanent, btw?

How goes The Trade Guild's wardec against Goonswarm now that you made it mutual and permanent, btw?

That's a very cool story and all but totally non-responsive to my point. I too am willing to accept that you know nothing about 0.0 warfare. Fair enough. (3 months, lol)


Whatever "muppet" means it must be really offensive to somebody somewhere. I'll file that one away. On the other hand, do try to keep your stories straight. If you are complaining about needing a wardec to avoid dying to gateguns while shooting at eve uni newbies that's cool. (your laundry list of killmails complaining about damage from gate guns comes to mind). If it is now about GCC or whatever, then that's cool too, but do try to be honest about what it is you are whining about. It helps the rest of us keep up without having to predict your next wild move.

My core point still hasn't changed. If you want to buy a lot of targets to shoot at you're going to have to have the money to pay for it. If you can't pay the price for the service then I would reconsider how important it is to you instead of whining about how unfair the game is to you. I mean, if you really want people to take you seriously as some sort of "real PVPer" then the least you can do is avoid whining on the forums about how unfair things are.

If you really think you should be paying less to shoot at people, I would consider purchasing less rights to shoot at less people. I hear that if you purchase less of something you end up paying less for it.

That's a very cool story and all but totally non-responsive to my point. I too am willing to accept that you know nothing about 0.0 warfare. Fair enough. (3 months, lol)


Whatever "muppet" means it must be really offensive to somebody somewhere. I'll file that one away. On the other hand, do try to keep your stories straight. If you are complaining about needing a wardec to avoid dying to gateguns while shooting at eve uni newbies that's cool. (your laundry list of killmails complaining about damage from gate guns comes to mind). If it is now about GCC or whatever, then that's cool too, but do try to be honest about what it is you are whining about. It helps the rest of us keep up without having to predict your next wild move.

My core point still hasn't changed. If you want to buy a lot of targets to shoot at you're going to have to have the money to pay for it. If you can't pay the price for the service then I would reconsider how important it is to you instead of whining about how unfair the game is to you. I mean, if you really want people to take you seriously as some sort of "real PVPer" then the least you can do is avoid whining on the forums about how unfair things are.

If you really think you should be paying less to shoot at people, I would consider purchasing less rights to shoot at less people. I hear that if you purchase less of something you end up paying less for it.

Wow, The Honda Accord and The Star Fraction have gotten together quite a list of people. 38 Allies for Honda and 43 for Star.

Good going, guys. However, I don't think you've *yet* gotten every gate-camping, undock-sitting, remote-repping, station-gaming highseccer into the wars, so you better hurry.

I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.

Has anyone yet explained how more hisec wardecs hurt nullsec alliances who are already constantly wardecced and do all of their logistics with neutral alts?

I mean, as much as you want to believe in goondev conspiracies because you lead sad and terrible meaningless lives, the entire thing falls apart based on that simple oversight.

The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.

Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.

We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.

It doesn't take long on eve-kill to see expensive losses for them in high sec. You pretending they don't exist does not make them go away.

I just looked at 5 pages, approximately 3 days, of goon losses on eve kill. The most expensive loss was a 200m recon; the average loss would be around a destroyer or cruiser, and most of the ones I checked died fighting instead of getting "ganked". This is also compared to the other hundred or so daily losses in nullsec and lowsec.

So again, what effect do you think wardecs actually have on goonswarm? Furthermore, what difference does having additional decs have on top of any supposed impact?

The true punch line is that it's people in hisec who suffer from ****** mechanics, not nullsec players. So the experience of average joe hisec, whom this actually impacts, is meaningless compared to the perceived experience of goonswarm, whom this in no way impacts.

Why do goons infest every thread on this forum

TLDR

Stfu you goon prik

So that goon Ark that died is fake?

Not really sure what my chosen alliance has to do with anything, but you seem pretty agitated about it for some reason. v0v

If your attention span is really too short to make it through all of those words there I'd suggest reading more books and less whining on forums. It might do you some good. Its really not that long overall and you might even learn something from it instead of kneejerking in rage because somebody told you to HTFU instead of whining about game mechanics.

I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.

I just looked at 5 pages, approximately 3 days, of goon losses on eve kill. The most expensive loss was a 200m recon; the average loss would be around a destroyer or cruiser, and most of the ones I checked died fighting instead of getting "ganked". This is also compared to the other hundred or so daily losses in nullsec and lowsec.

So again, what effect do you think wardecs actually have on goonswarm? Furthermore, what difference does having additional decs have on top of any supposed impact?

The true punch line is that it's people in hisec who suffer from ****** mechanics, not nullsec players. So the experience of average joe hisec, whom this actually impacts, is meaningless compared to the perceived experience of goonswarm, whom this in no way impacts.

Yep, you reached down from camping Jita and slaps us in Dek where we were ratting.

Come on, you can at least get a ship with a cloak in to camp, right? I mean .... come on, a T1 frigate or something won't hurt your wallet that bad.

You speak like you are an elite null sec pvp'er yet goons/CFC in general hate "elite pvp'ers" or that attitude. You are a hypocrite and a idiot, congratulations.

Also you ignore the fact that most low sec pvp'ers are null sec bitter vets who got tired of being a monkey and wanted to think for themselves. I will say that null sec fc's have a lot on there plate and that position is possibly the only spot that requires any real skill, sorry also your cloak y probers who are heroes onto themselves. Other then those two positions everything else is exactly how crafty stated it, press f1 when told and orbit anchor and warp when told to. You even get told how to fit your ships and how to fly them : /.

Feel free to keep blundering onto here and making yourself look like a fool.

And what about the Jump Freighter filled with Moon Goon?

Oh yeah, you are a liar like all goons.

Where is that?

he's talking about some ICE dude who lost an ark with some ferrogel reactions or something equally stupid. Can you believe it? Pubbies think we care about personal pos reactions.

Near the end it looks to me like they want the CFC to team up with euni?

n++[ 2012.06.12 19:25:09 ] xxxAlloxxx > from what I last read you guys had decided to run with test
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:25:42 ] xxxAlloxxx > yes
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:25:43 ] Kelduum Revaan > TEST offered us free access to NPC fountain, as a bootstrap for a larger program
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:25:45 ] xxxAlloxxx > that null sec camp
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:25:54 ] xxxAlloxxx > it is in test space or there abouts
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:25:56 ] masty > ok well kelduum it was nice to talk to you
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:26:06 ] masty > i hope you do us some pleasure of coming down personally
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:26:14 ] Kelduum Revaan > so we can 'test' things out and make sure we have the links worked out before we scale it up

n++[ 2012.06.12 19:27:02 ] xxxAlloxxx > so are you saying there is a larger plan to join the CFC?
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:27:33 ] Kelduum Revaan > nope, more the other way around
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:27:48 ] Kelduum Revaan > the CFC has a significant proportion of E-UNI alumni
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:28:21 ] xxxAlloxxx > k I had my fun... gl hf
n++[ 2012.06.12 19:28:26 ] Kelduum Revaan > o7

This war has been loads of fun so far, hope it continues!!!

You know what happens when there is an AFK cloaky in Local.

It shuts down all activity in the Null system.