EVE Search - CCP, please explain skill queue limit reason

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

CCP, please explain skill queue limit reason

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:09:00 - [31] Originally by: Dharh Even though I think they should expand the queue to 3 skills or 24h (whichever provides the longest queue when you add the skills at the time) I could queue up 3 skills right now that would take me all the way into April of next year to complete. Seems a wee bit excessive.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:36:00 - [32] 24h is a vast improvement and does alleviate the worst problems. But I think the limit should be more dynamic... Say, a maximum of two skills of any length or an unlimited number of skills with all but he last one starting in less than 24 hours. So you could have a 4 day skill followed by a 27 day skill. Or 37 twenty minute skills followed by a 2 day skill. But not 37 seven day skills. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
fatherted1989 Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:57:00 - [33] lol @ people whining, because staying up to absurd hours to tack that last little skill on was sooooo fun...
Tuscanspeed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Perhaps CCP actually cares about the quality of the game. Sacrificing quality for short term gain leads, after all, to long term loss. Considering all of the behavior they overlook and ignore and all of the bugs and problems currently facing EvE going to have to say that CCP is very much short term gain over long term. As are..well..every MMO developer right now. Originally by: Catherine Frasier Character trading should be banned. Preventing completely automated character farming is at least a gesture in that direction. /agree. Also like to see multi-logging and PLEX sales stop too. But we're both living in a dream world if we think those will happen. /me would like to see ghost training brought back for everyone. ---------------------------------------------- Never have been. Never will be. An Alt.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:08:00 - [35] The mechanics should be made to accommodate a enthusiastic player adult player without disadvanting them for living a balanced life and who kept game play to a level that a non mmo player wouldn't find obsessive. Man, it would have been nuts, without the 24 hour queue. While I get the reasoning not to make things too easy for afk character farmers, the main focus should be normal players. Maybe I shouldn't say "normal" players. The average MMO player can be quite intense with their hobby. I'm not talking about non committed occasional players either. It makes sense to make mechanics that would make a full time working player, with a healthy and typical social life, who also might have other hobbies and activities like softball leagues, coaching their kids teams, doing lab projects, going on vacations, to not really have too much of a disadvantage. Its not like the game needs to be nerfed to serve them...of course players who play more will get advantages. Its just that there's no reason to encourage a sort of semi-dysfunctional compulsion to log back into their imaginary existence on days in a balanced life that they would have no reason to do so. Without a training Q, it would have really made for compulsive behavior to train 5hour skills . It really would have favored people without a life, or who spent time at a computer that they could log onto during the day. (perhaps risking their jobs or performance reviews for being seen playing a game at work?) Now, there is no reason that 24 hours is a magical number. It does allow training most level 3 skills an tacking on a level 4 or 5 skill to catch odd points. The issue though, is more at the end of longer skills. Isn't it reasonable that someone might frequently go on 3 day trips where they couldn't log on? They'd need to substitute a longer term skill instead of finishing a much higher priority skill for them that might finish 40 hours down the line. Switching to a 25 day skill for the few times a year you go on long term vacation isn't too hard and the balance between the afk trainer to active player makes more sense. It seems to me that the length of a Queue should be based upon the number of days betwen logins that seems appropiate in relation to other hobbies and activities people do. You can be a soccer player and practice 3 times a week, a hunter doesn't check his guns everyday, a part time artist doesn't paint every day...etc. Why you'd need to sneek away from your family to check your training queue sort of requires that a player keep a stronger chain between them and the game than is really entirely mental healthy. Another simple way would be to keep the 24 hours but allways allow a back up skill in the queue... that way you could finish training a multi day skill, and have another long skill time skill to back it up.
fatherted1989 Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:11:00 - [36] + the above point on 3 day-ish skills and being away; if thats the case (as it often is at uni), ill just stick something long that i never get round to training for (BS5 etc) in the queue, and eventually i've got that skill to 5 without really noticing. It's still SP at the end of the day, SP you would have trained for at some point.
Dharh Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Dharh Even though I think they should expand the queue to 3 skills or 24h (whichever provides the longest queue when you add the skills at the time) I could queue up 3 skills right now that would take me all the way into April of next year to complete. Seems a wee bit excessive. I don't see why that is a problem. Obviously those 3 skills are high tier level V skills. Who cares if you can queue 3 of them. Either way you aren't going to be changing your queue for months on end anyway.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:44:00 - [38] My only gripe about the skill queue is that it doesn't take into account pre-requisites, so I have to insert filler skills between, say Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1. Aside from that, I have no issues with a 24 hour queue - and as a mother of 3, with a full time job and a husband (aka a fourth child), I have no problems checking it - I usually do it while I'm getting ready for work in the morning. So it doesn't take away time from my hobbies or family, since all I'm really doing is getting dressed and grabbing a bagel anyway. And yelling at the kids to get out of bed. And finding my husband socks that match. And feeding the cat. And making three lunches. And... Glancing at a computer screen in the mist of all that and going "Yup, all's right with the world for 24 more hours" takes all of 5 minutes. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Jarna Amarr Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:29:00 - [39] Edited by: Jarna on 28/10/2009 21:35:18 Actually, I think people fail to realise this: A person has to logon and off more to change out a bunch of small skills. With the queue, people can go 24 hours without logging on. Technically they have created less logon with the queue. Which is why I have never believed CCP as to why they say they put a 24-hour limit on the queue. ------------------------------ EVE players are just as immature as WoW players.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:33:00 - [40] I have to imagine that you didn't play this game before the queue existed or else you wouldn't be making this thread. It is so much better now that I can't even begin to imagine going back to the ridiculous old system of training skills. Or maybe you're just trolling us. -----

Passageway Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 24h is a vast improvement and does alleviate the worst problems. But I think the limit should be more dynamic... Quote: Say, a maximum of two skills of any length Probably not critical, but I can see how this would still work between two BS5s where one finished in the middle of the night, although the current queue is perfectly adequate here. Quote: or an unlimited number of skills with all but he last one starting in less than 24 hours. This is how the queue works already. Quote: So you could have a 4 day skill followed by a 27 day skill. Why not just log in less than 24 hours before the 4 day skill finishes? This could work if you were on a really long holiday I guess, going from level 4 to 5 Quote: Or 37 twenty minute skills followed by a 2 day skill. That's 12 hours, followed by one skill. You can do that alreeady, or is there a hard limit to the number of skills that I've missed?
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Wiley Peterson How is that a concern for CCP? People who are paying for an account and not logging in are giving free money to CCP. They don't have to increase their bandwidth or put more pressure on their server, and still make money. All they need is a little hard drive space to store the character info. How is CCP hurt? CCP actually cares about the quality of the game. Sacrificing quality for short term gain leads, after all, to long term loss. Did you catch it that time? How exactly is character farming affecting the quality of the game? Keep in mind, they already allow (even actively promote), multiple accounts, character trading and plex in the game.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Passageway Why not just log in less than 24 hours before the 4 day skill finishes? Because sometimes you can't? All limitations do on a skill queue are force the player to train something other than what they really want to train, or force them to log in more often. And since you can't always log in more often due to real life, sometimes it ends up being the former. The restriction adds nothing of value to the game. Originally by: Passageway That's 12 hours, followed by one skill. You can do that alreeady, or is there a hard limit to the number of skills that I've missed? I know that's what we currently have. I was proposing augmenting the system without removing current functionality. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.10.28 22:00:00 - [44] Originally by: De'Veldrin My only gripe about the skill queue is that it doesn't take into account pre-requisites, so I have to insert filler skills between, say Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1. I hear they're going to let you inject skills that require pre-reqs that aren't trained fully and not let you train the injected skills until the pre-reqs are done. I forgot where I saw that though, and I could be completely wrong.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.28 22:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Cadde It's simple really, they believe that the general population in EvE wouldn't play. They have the right to believe that, even if some people play and have a need for a 96 hour queue it's not going to change their minds. They BELIEVE that is the best limitation and that is good enough for me. You should just be happy we ever got a skill queue to begin with because they where very reluctant to making one. I don't get it. I mean, when I need to queue up more skills I often don't find myself playing EVE the game itself other than logging in for 90 seconds only to setup the skills and log off for another few days.
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2009.10.28 23:14:00 - [46] There are two reasons. 1) To force people to log in. Many people log in with the intent to just change their skills - but end up staying on longer to do other things that catch their attention. Without the skill changing, they wouldn't log on at all. 2) To prevent people from farming characters and selling them on ebay. Imagine if people were able to queue up a capital-ready skill plan and not have to log on for a year. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
Whoopie DooDah	Posted - 2009.10.28 23:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. Create your own extension.... 23h 59m with low level skills and make the last one a 15 day skill. no problem.
Lolion Reglo Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2009.10.29 00:38:00 - [48] I love how CCP doesnt even need to reply to such a post to get their message across. Quit complaining about a lack of a long skill que and enjoy what you have. Its fines as is especially when you get your skills trained up past 24 hours anyway. then its true purpoese shows, to allow people to not have to log in at weird hours to set up another skill. they can log in at their normal times each day and then que up the next skill to begin after the current one training. So basically its not for filling it up with a bunch of tiny quick skills. Its to allow players to better manage their time in game.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.29 01:02:00 - [49] Your skill queue is only limited to 24 hours? Gosh, I've put skills adding up to three weeks and more in mine... The 'problem' that they solved by adding the queue was that many players cannot log in at any arbitrary point during the day to change skills, which made, for example, 12 hour skills basically impossible to manage without losing training time. One proposed suggestion that was very popular was a two-skill queue, allowing players to back up a 'short' skill with a 'long' skill to avoid training time loss. CCP very generously took this one step further by allowing us to queue up just less than a full 24 hours worth of short skills followed by a long skill. Since most humans lives revolve around daily cycles, this makes a lot of sense, giving maximum flexibility for active players while limiting abuses of the system by largely inactive players (or inactive accounts). This was a great change. So if you have several 'days' worth of short skills to train, here's how you do it: 1) Pick out a long skill (more than a day or two, or longer if you don't log on frequently). 2) Queue up about a days worth of skills, with the long skill at the end. 3) Go to sleep, to work, etc. Log in the next night (or the night after, or the week after, as time allows). 4) Add in another days worth of skills in front of your long skill. 5) Live life, etc. Repeat as often as necessary. Eventually you will have trained not only that pile of short skills, but a long skill too! And it only requires about 5 minutes per day's worth of short skills, and can be spread out with days or weeks between logins without losing training time. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.10.29 01:16:00 - [50] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/10/2009 01:17:28 I can understand the arguments for not having an unlimited skill queue, but why not increase it to 72 hours? Or 96? IOW, enough to cover a weekend away from the internet (yes, there is such a thing). Currently, let's say you have a skill finishing over a weekend when you'll be out of town and unable to log in. Friday morning you log on, check your skill queue, and find that you have 25 hours left on it. Now you have two unappealing options: 1) Cancel the current skill and train something else that will maximize training time. It's annoying at best, and it really sucks if you need that skill as a prerequisite. 2) Allow it to finish, but waste all the time between when it finishes and when you return on sunday night. On the other hand, with a 72 hour queue, you can easily cover the time that you will be away from your computer, and ensure maximum efficiency. It's a pretty fair compromise that covers most short periods away from EVE (and most people will bring laptops on longer vacations if they're lucky enough to have them). However, it's short enough that you're still logging on frequently (why CCP considers it a good thing that I log on for 30 seconds, press the "add to queue button" and immediately log off, I have no clue) and not just loading a 6-month skill plan and forgetting about EVE. Alternatively, allow a 24 hour queue, plus one (and only one) skill which may begin outside it. That way you can keep the 25 hours that remain in the queue when you leave, and then set Caldari Titan V training once it finishes. -----------

Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:21:00 - [51] Personally, I would enjoy a longer skill queue, I would also expect them to implement it if the numbers were larger. Rather than sit here saying "Give an inch..." because to be honest if I am paying monthly for a product I'd expect them to take on user feedback. With the game in its current state, enjoyable yet full of scammers/macro'ers and bugs I can't understand how they come out with certain statements. My main gripe is their resilience to do anything about scammers. Scamming is the most profitable profession going which usually results in emo rage quits and disgruntled customers. So for them to allow scammers to operate without any sort of punishment and say its pretty much your fault we have made it easy for them to scam. Yet turn around and say longer skill queues will decrease numbers, I find it quite ridiuclous... There has been 3 occasions over my last 7/8 months playing Eve that I have left the game for more than a month. Coming back from work logging on, putting some pointless skill on so that I don't feel like I'm missing out as much on what I paid for, maybe participating in some random ship spinning. For those stretches of time CCP still made a profit from me and they suffered minimal resource usage from myself. The only interactive thing I did was say to a buddy that I was too busy to play. For some people they have played too long, paying for Eve is like paying for a electricity or gas bill... You need to. Many would now find it silly not to train their skills for a month or many have paid for a years subscription only to find they want a break. So why not? Why not give us a longer skill queue. Why sit on the fence and say "Give them an inch and they take a mile"? With expressions like that it almost sounds like you don't want them to listen to ANY comments we have. The whole point of upgrading the game and updating it is to increase its capacity for enjoyment. If someone has paid for 6 months game time and then wants to take a break but train some long skills without logging on, why not let us do that we have paid the money and we WILL come back? The only really reason it sounds like is to get the statistics up for active users. Finally you might of noticed I'm for another upgrade on the skill queue, I'd like to see us being able to queue past 24 hours without having to set an unnecessary level V skill just to see me through for 36D only to gain 5% to ROF and 10% missile velocity. When I could of trained various things. Christ if It could be queued up like EveMon I think EVERYBODY would be overjoyed... There would be no reason for complaint.
Modrak Vseth Veto.	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:31:00 - [52] Originally by: amdul kabar It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee. You haven't played many other MMOs, have you? EVE is one of the VERY FEW MMOs that provide free updates. I can't think of any other one that I've played that provided free full expansions.
Pellegro	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:44:00 - [53] Originally by: Catherine Frasier The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) While this explanation, I think, is probably dead-right, I myself would enjoy a long queue. Not because I farm skills or whatever, but because sometimes I go days without logging into Eve (gasp!) or even a computer at all (WTFOMGSATAN????). Its true. I go on vacations, go camping, go into the city and stay with friends for the weekend, etc. Sure, I can set a long skill and forget about it, but that usually doesnt' fit in with teh skill plan I worked so hard to make :D So do I feel entitled to it? No. Do I think it would be a nice addition? Yes.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:49:00 - [54] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 29/10/2009 03:50:11 Originally by: Modrak Vseth Originally by: amdul kabar It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee. You haven't played many other MMOs, have you? EVE is one of the VERY FEW MMOs that provide free updates. I can't think of any other one that I've played that provided free full expansions. Eve isn't really one of the few, Christ Runescape, otherwise known has GOONscape. That had new content every other week and a major update every other month more or less. That has an absolutely massive player base compared to Eve. You might be thinking of WoW but why compare our game to other MMO's. I still expect updates etc when I'm paying a monthly fee. WoW just doesn't need to due to the amount of people who would stay either way. Guild Wars on the other hand NEEDS to charge for other game expansions as it is a one of payment based system. Eve NEEDS to be updated regularly and thats what part of subscription is about, without expansions or expansion which need paying for Eve's relatively small user base would disappear. Not many people would pay for a monthly subscription and for updates. Especially when you can only train one character at a time effectively.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:50:00 - [55] Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.10.29 04:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... Sigh
Eric Hartman	Posted - 2009.10.29 04:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Modrak Vseth Originally by: amdul kabar It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee. You haven't played many other MMOs, have you? EVE is one of the VERY FEW MMOs that provide free updates. I can't think of any other one that I've played that provided free full expansions. Umm, City of Heroes/City of Villains..
mechtech Entropy Industries	Posted - 2009.10.29 07:49:00 - [58] I've heard CCP talk about this before. Quite simply, they want people to have to log in to change their skills. CCP believes that having people log in to change skills can make people more involved in the game, because when they log in they might get a convo from a friend, or get an eve-mail that causes them to play a little bit.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2009.10.29 07:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/10/2009 01:17:28 I can understand the arguments for not having an unlimited skill queue, but why not increase it to 72 hours? Or 96? IOW, enough to cover a weekend away from the internet (yes, there is such a thing). Currently, let's say you have a skill finishing over a weekend when you'll be out of town and unable to log in. Friday morning you log on, check your skill queue, and find that you have 25 hours left on it. Now you have two unappealing options: 1) Cancel the current skill and train something else that will maximize training time. It's annoying at best, and it really sucks if you need that skill as a prerequisite. 2) Allow it to finish, but waste all the time between when it finishes and when you return on sunday night. On the other hand, with a 72 hour queue, you can easily cover the time that you will be away from your computer, and ensure maximum efficiency. It's a pretty fair compromise that covers most short periods away from EVE (and most people will bring laptops on longer vacations if they're lucky enough to have them). However, it's short enough that you're still logging on frequently (why CCP considers it a good thing that I log on for 30 seconds, press the "add to queue button" and immediately log off, I have no clue) and not just loading a 6-month skill plan and forgetting about EVE. Alternatively, allow a 24 hour queue, plus one (and only one) skill which may begin outside it. That way you can keep the 25 hours that remain in the queue when you leave, and then set Caldari Titan V training once it finishes. While this sounds reasonable, this is really the recipe for an unlimited skill queue. Because if the "I am away for the weekend - I must be able to progress like I was here to invest time" argument is valid then so is the "I am away for the whole week - I must ..." and then the "I am away for the next 3 weeks - I must ...". The point is: you are investing less time! Why do you think you should get the same results? And you can always suspend training a skill and resume later. You won't lose a single SP. All you really lose is training the skills in your preferred order. And if that "optimal" skill training order is so important to you you will find a way to be online - it really isn't that hard. Originally by: Catherine Frasier The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) QFT.
Lana's Alt Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.10.29 07:57:00 - [60] Originally by: De'Veldrin My only gripe about the skill queue is that it doesn't take into account pre-requisites, so I have to insert filler skills between, say Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1. QFT.. Seriously.. I made WAY to many characters without the skill queue and lost WAY too much sleep doing it. 24h for me is the perfect length as it means you have to log in exactly once a day to keep the queue full. Shorter and it wouldn't fix the problem, longer and it would cause other problems.. Fixing the prereqs thing would make it perfect in every way, which just cant happen in eve, so leave it as it is. Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first.



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.