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CCP, please explain skill queue limit reason

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:12:00 - [1] Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Rebecca Rhineheart	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:14:00 - [2] Give em an inch,...
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:17:00 - [3] Its like you said to stop farming, oh look i don't have to login for 3 days while the system auto completes a mass of low level skills for me without me having to login at all
Cadde Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:18:00 - [4] It's simple really, they believe that the general population in EvE wouldn't play. They have the right to believe that, even if some people play and have a need for a 96 hour queue it's not going to change their minds. They BELIEVE that is the best limitation and that is good enough for me. You should just be happy we ever got a skill queue to begin with because they where very reluctant to making one. My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
Shmeria	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. Oh me oh my! Someone thinks they can rudely demand answers they want to hear from the GM squad and get a positive result!
SULAN BARHIR Gallente United League of Independents	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:18:00 - [6] Whine, whine... this is not going to end until CCP completely removes the limit. 24h limit should stay as it is. Why? Because the limit has to be drawn somewhere.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. You might think it's a crap excuse, the majority of other people don't. Its a valid concern to CCP that people will sit AFK training and do nothing in Eve. The same concern is probably why they disabled ghost training as well. I'm all for it, people should log in and play, not sit AFK constantly skillpoint farming. Making the process automated would just further the problem. To be honest, you're one of a tiny minority whining and bleating about this when you should be happy that you even have a 24 hour queue. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Neamus	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Kuolematon Rabble rabble rabble. Me me me.. I doubt they're going to explain themselves to someone that is "playing this game not very actively". Almost as much as I doubt they'll change it just so you can play this game even less very actively. If you give me your stuff and quit, then you wont have to play this game not very at all.
LatrodectusMactans	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:29:00 - [9] To be honest I like the 24 hour Que, as it is long enough. Yes, yes, longer could be nice, but Honestly, why not just check once a day or set a long one for the end of the que to cover your absence? Just pause and inject short ones first when you check and cap the que off with a long one after, Unless you are building characters to sell and farming alts for others? I have nothing but a big thumbs up for this game and the way CCP has run it so far. PS Don't Like what I say? Tough!!!!
Jacob Mei Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:30:00 - [10] I just want to play devils advocate for a second (I dont agree at all with the OP btw) but why would CCP have the impression players would not log in? I mean lets examine this line of thought for a minute. If someone wants to character farm they are going to do it, all they have to do is take about 3 minutes to boot up, login, add skills and log out. How exactly is a 24 hour queue limit a deturrent exactly from this sort of behavior? I mean come on, if someone is going to log on only to change skills then log out, thats whats going to happen. On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod!

Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine.
Jethro Hawkins	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:38:00 - [12] I only played the game for a couple of months before the skill que came about. I was pretty die hard about setting my alarm clock for those skills ending at the wee hours of the morning. Now, I just sleep through as my toon trains away! My only complaint is that i can't queue skills between characters on the same account. That would be some epic win right there. Thanks CCP for the skill queue. It has saved my sanity, and got me some nice skills :)
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:39:00 - [13] The skill queue is fine as it is, and I'm glad they finally added. You can tack on a long skill at the end, so I don't see what the big deal is. It makes it hella easier to train a bunch of short skills without having to be near the computer. On the other hand, I don't see the damage in extending it, I just think it is unnecessary. Since they got rid of ghost training, character farming isn't as big an issue. I mean, the people farming characters have to pay for the accounts anyways, so CCP still wins. Besides, they allow trading characters for ISK and promote multiple accounts. How exactly does character farming hurt them, or anyone else in the game?
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. Alternate Theory: It encourages you to train really long skills such as frigate/cruiser/battleship V to ensure you won't lose any training time (put them at the end of your queue.) Those skills open up a whole new world of ship classes to fly, thus keeping your interest in Eve. Or not. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP"
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.28 16:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Catherine Frasier (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) I think most people, like the poster below you, would disagree with you. Not having the queue was a PItA, especially for newer players with a lot of short skills. And please don't say switching to a long skill was fine. Maybe you are to advanced to remember, but that method kept a lot of short skills weeks or months away, depending on how often you play. The queue is a much needed and much appreciated feature.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:05:00 - [16] Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 28/10/2009 17:09:23 Originally by: Wiley Peterson Originally by: Catherine Frasier (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) I think most people, like the poster below you, would disagree with you. Not having the queue was a PItA, especially for newer players with a lot of short skills. You have apparently redefined "need" to be something like "want". It's OK, my kids do that all the time. I'll tell you what I tell them; Need is food, want is french fries. Skill switching was a bit of a pain sometimes but it worked. Now it's just much more convenient. (I <3 the queue.) Originally by: Wiley Peterson I mean, the people farming characters have to pay for the accounts anyways, so CCP still wins. Perhaps CCP actually cares about the quality of the game. Sacrificing quality for short term gain leads, after all, to long term loss. Character trading should be banned. Preventing completely automated character farming is at least a gesture in that direction.
Grarr Wrexx	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:07:00 - [17] That's why I was against the skill queue in the first place. Give me a finger, they'll take an arm.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:10:00 - [18] Take out the skill queue all together. Take out remaps, WTZ, +5's and advanced learning skills too. Game was better before these things were in it. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. You might think it's a crap excuse, the majority of other people don't. Its a valid concern to CCP that people will sit AFK training and do nothing in Eve. The same concern is probably why they disabled ghost training as well. I'm all for it, people should log in and play, not sit AFK constantly skillpoint farming. Making the process automated would just further the problem. To be honest, you're one of a tiny minority whining and bleating about this when you should be happy that you even have a 24 hour queue. How is that a concern for CCP? People who are paying for an account and not logging in are giving free money to CCP. They don't have to increase their bandwidth or put more pressure on their server, and still make money. All they need is a little hard drive space to store the character info. How is CCP hurt?
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Wiley Peterson How is that a concern for CCP? People who are paying for an account and not logging in are giving free money to CCP. They don't have to increase their bandwidth or put more pressure on their server, and still make money. All they need is a little hard drive space to store the character info. How is CCP hurt? CCP actually cares about the quality of the game. Sacrificing quality for short term gain leads, after all, to long term loss. Did you catch it that time?

amdul kabar	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. You might think it's a crap excuse, the majority of other people don't. Its a valid concern to CCP that people will sit AFK training and do nothing in Eve. The same concern is probably why they disabled ghost training as well. I'm all for it, people should log in and play, not sit AFK constantly skillpoint farming. Making the process automated would just further the problem. To be honest, you're one of a tiny minority whining and bleating about this when you should be happy that you even have a 24 hour queue. While I agree with the 24 hour limit, to say that we should be glad there is a skill queue is going overboard. For a game with real time training a skill queue should be an essential feature, and I am still amazed CCP did not implement it until Apocrypha. It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Verone Its a valid concern to CCP that people will sit AFK training and do nothing in Eve. The same concern is probably why they disabled ghost training as well. I'm all for it, people should log in and play, not sit AFK constantly skillpoint farming. People paying for the game just for skill training and not doing anything else should be CCP wet dream. They are paying for the full content yet not using any resource. If anything they should make it easier to give them money while not incurring any measurable cost. Because if they want to increase people actually playing they are doing it the wrong way, we all know people logging in just to set stupidly long skills that are often useless (i know a guy with Advanced Drone Interfacing 5, he just didn't even have time to log in to train something useful but shorter, and people logged in but just ship spinning...). If they want busy people to play they just need content catering to their need, like missions that would be challenging yet short, that kind of stuff (needing to probe content goes against that). You just can't sit down at the comp and say, "ok, I got 20 minutes I'll play a bit of EVE". The best you could achieve would maybe be a short solo interceptor roam, but you cannot run a mission, cannot explore, cannot group PvP unless a gang was already going and close enough... That's an issue... If CCP want people playing more that's the one they ought to fix, artificial restriction on the skill queue just doesn't do it. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:35:00 - [23] Personally, I would like to know why I must do things to get isk. Why can I not just have unlimited amounts of isk? Or, why do things have to cost isk to buy? Please explain your thinking CCP. ----------------------------------------------------
Steve Celeste Caldari Overdogs	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Personally, I would like to know why I must do things to get isk. Why can I not just have unlimited amounts of isk? Or, why do things have to cost isk to buy? Please explain your thinking CCP. And how is this related to the skill queue again?
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:50:00 - [25] The skill queue is fine, I was so happy to not have to have my laptop attached to me to constantly start new skills all the time. The most efficient usage of the skill queue you will find is this: 1. Fill the queue with skills that take less than 24 hours, up to just below the 24 hour limit (like 20 hours or so). 2. Put a skill in that takes more than 24 hours at the end of the queue. Do this by applying changes to the skill queue, close the queue window, go back to your character sheet, find a long skill you want to train, right click and "add to end of current queue" (or whatever it is). 3. Log off. Your skills train past 24 hour queue limit. 4. ??? 5. Profit.
Boomershoot Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:50:00 - [26] I TO V That's why ________________________________________ i'd gladly abuse [hr] if CCP implemented it ________________________________________
Xarax	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:53:00 - [27] My current queue is almost 6 days. Just put a long skill as the last skill in the queue, that way you never lose training time. Soylent Quafe is pod pilots!
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Steve Celeste Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Personally, I would like to know why I must do things to get isk. Why can I not just have unlimited amounts of isk? Or, why do things have to cost isk to buy? Please explain your thinking CCP. And how is this related to the skill queue again? He was being facetious. Complaining about having to log in once and a while to change skills is somewhat similar to complaining about having to do anything at all in the game (for example, to get ISK). By sarcasm he is making fun of the OP who wants everything handed to him on a golden platter.
Dharh Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2009.10.28 17:55:00 - [29] Even though I think they should expand the queue to 3 skills or 24h (whichever provides the longest queue when you add the skills at the time). I wouldn't go so far as to demand an answer. OP. You sir are fail.
Ishikaria	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:07:00 - [30] If you want the official explanation, dev blogs are on the left... and google is your friend.. or you can just listen to the people in this thread... they all read the dev blog too.

Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:09:00 - [31] Originally by: Dharh Even though I think they should expand the queue to 3 skills or 24h (whichever provides the longest queue when you add the skills at the time) I could queue up 3 skills right now that would take me all the way into April of next year to complete. Seems a wee bit excessive.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:36:00 - [32] 24h is a vast improvement and does alleviate the worst problems. But I think the limit should be more dynamic... Say, a maximum of two skills of any length or an unlimited number of skills with all but he last one starting in less than 24 hours. So you could have a 4 day skill followed by a 27 day skill. Or 37 twenty minute skills followed by a 2 day skill. But not 37 seven day skills. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
fatherted1989 Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.10.28 18:57:00 - [33] lol @ people whining, because staying up to absurd hours to tack that last little skill on was sooooo fun...
Tuscanspeed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Perhaps CCP actually cares about the quality of the game. Sacrificing quality for short term gain leads, after all, to long term loss. Considering all of the behavior they overlook and ignore and all of the bugs and problems currently facing EvE going to have to say that CCP is very much short term gain over long term. As are..well..every MMO developer right now. Originally by: Catherine Frasier Character trading should be banned. Preventing completely automated character farming is at least a gesture in that direction. /agree. Also like to see multi-logging and PLEX sales stop too. But we're both living in a dream world if we think those will happen. /me would like to see ghost training brought back for everyone. ---------------------------------------------- Never have been. Never will be. An Alt.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:08:00 - [35] The mechanics should be made to accommodate a enthusiastic player adult player without disadvanting them for living a balanced life and who kept game play to a level that a non mmo player wouldn't find obsessive. Man, it would have been nuts, without the 24 hour queue. While I get the reasoning not to make things too easy for afk character farmers, the main focus should be normal players. Maybe I shouldn't say "normal" players. The average MMO player can be quite intense with their hobby. I'm not talking about non committed occasional players either. It makes sense to make mechanics that would make a full time working player, with a healthy and typical social life, who also might have other hobbies and activities like softball leagues, coaching their kids teams, doing lab projects, going on vacations, to not really have too much of a disadvantage. Its not like the game needs to be nerfed to serve them...of course players who play more will get advantages. Its just that there's no reason to encourage a sort of semi-dysfunctional compulsion to log back into their imaginary existence on days in a balanced life that they would have no reason to do so. Without a training Q, it would have really made for compulsive behavior to train 5hour skills . It really would have favored people without a life, or who spent time at a computer that they could log onto during the day. (perhaps risking their jobs or performance reviews for being seen playing a game at work?) Now, there is no reason that 24 hours is a magical number. It does allow training most level 3 skills an tacking on a level 4 or 5 skill to catch odd points. The issue though, is more at the end of longer skills. Isn't it reasonable that someone might frequently go on 3 day trips where they couldn't log on? They'd need to substitute a longer term skill instead of finishing a much higher priority skill for them that might finish 40 hours down the line. Switching to a 25 day skill for the few times a year you go on long term vacation isn't too hard and the balance between the afk trainer to active player makes more sense. It seems to me that the length of a Queue should be based upon the number of days betwen logins that seems appropiate in relation to other hobbies and activities people do. You can be a soccer player and practice 3 times a week, a hunter doesn't check his guns everyday, a part time artist doesn't paint every day...etc. Why you'd need to sneek away from your family to check your training queue sort of requires that a player keep a stronger chain between them and the game than is really entirely mental healthy. Another simple way would be to keep the 24 hours but allways allow a back up skill in the queue... that way you could finish training a multi day skill, and have another long skill time skill to back it up.
fatherted1989 Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:11:00 - [36] + the above point on 3 day-ish skills and being away; if thats the case (as it often is at uni), ill just stick something long that i never get round to training for (BS5 etc) in the queue, and eventually i've got that skill to 5 without really noticing. It's still SP at the end of the day, SP you would have trained for at some point.
Dharh Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Dharh Even though I think they should expand the queue to 3 skills or 24h (whichever provides the longest queue when you add the skills at the time) I could queue up 3 skills right now that would take me all the way into April of next year to complete. Seems a wee bit excessive. I don't see why that is a problem. Obviously those 3 skills are high tier level V skills. Who cares if you can queue 3 of them. Either way you aren't going to be changing your queue for months on end anyway.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.28 19:44:00 - [38] My only gripe about the skill queue is that it doesn't take into account pre-requisites, so I have to insert filler skills between, say Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1. Aside from that, I have no issues with a 24 hour queue - and as a mother of 3, with a full time job and a husband (aka a fourth child), I have no problems checking it - I usually do it while I'm getting ready for work in the morning. So it doesn't take away time from my hobbies or family, since all I'm really doing is getting dressed and grabbing a bagel anyway. And yelling at the kids to get out of bed. And finding my husband socks that match. And feeding the cat. And making three lunches. And... Glancing at a computer screen in the mist of all that and going "Yup, all's right with the world for 24 more hours" takes all of 5 minutes. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Jarna Amarr Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:29:00 - [39] Edited by: Jarna on 28/10/2009 21:35:18 Actually, I think people fail to realise this: A person has to logon and off more to change out a bunch of small skills. With the queue, people can go 24 hours without logging on. Technically they have created less logon with the queue. Which is why I have never believed CCP as to why they say they put a 24-hour limit on the queue. ------------------------------ EVE players are just as immature as WoW players.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:33:00 - [40] I have to imagine that you didn't play this game before the queue existed or else you wouldn't be making this thread. It is so much better now that I can't even begin to imagine going back to the ridiculous old system of training skills. Or maybe you're just trolling us. -----

Passageway Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 24h is a vast improvement and does alleviate the worst problems. But I think the limit should be more dynamic... Quote: Say, a maximum of two skills of any length Probably not critical, but I can see how this would still work between two BS5s where one finished in the middle of the night, although the current queue is perfectly adequate here. Quote: or an unlimited number of skills with all but he last one starting in less than 24 hours. This is how the queue works already. Quote: So you could have a 4 day skill followed by a 27 day skill. Why not just log in less than 24 hours before the 4 day skill finishes? This could work if you were on a really long holiday I guess, going from level 4 to 5 Quote: Or 37 twenty minute skills followed by a 2 day skill. That's 12 hours, followed by one skill. You can do that alreeady, or is there a hard limit to the number of skills that I've missed?
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Wiley Peterson How is that a concern for CCP? People who are paying for an account and not logging in are giving free money to CCP. They don't have to increase their bandwidth or put more pressure on their server, and still make money. All they need is a little hard drive space to store the character info. How is CCP hurt? CCP actually cares about the quality of the game. Sacrificing quality for short term gain leads, after all, to long term loss. Did you catch it that time? How exactly is character farming affecting the quality of the game? Keep in mind, they already allow (even actively promote), multiple accounts, character trading and plex in the game.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.28 21:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Passageway Why not just log in less than 24 hours before the 4 day skill finishes? Because sometimes you can't? All limitations do on a skill queue are force the player to train something other than what they really want to train, or force them to log in more often. And since you can't always log in more often due to real life, sometimes it ends up being the former. The restriction adds nothing of value to the game. Originally by: Passageway That's 12 hours, followed by one skill. You can do that alreeady, or is there a hard limit to the number of skills that I've missed? I know that's what we currently have. I was proposing augmenting the system without removing current functionality. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.10.28 22:00:00 - [44] Originally by: De'Veldrin My only gripe about the skill queue is that it doesn't take into account pre-requisites, so I have to insert filler skills between, say Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1. I hear they're going to let you inject skills that require pre-reqs that aren't trained fully and not let you train the injected skills until the pre-reqs are done. I forgot where I saw that though, and I could be completely wrong.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.28 22:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Cadde It's simple really, they believe that the general population in EvE wouldn't play. They have the right to believe that, even if some people play and have a need for a 96 hour queue it's not going to change their minds. They BELIEVE that is the best limitation and that is good enough for me. You should just be happy we ever got a skill queue to begin with because they where very reluctant to making one. I don't get it. I mean, when I need to queue up more skills I often don't find myself playing EVE the game itself other than logging in for 90 seconds only to setup the skills and log off for another few days.
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2009.10.28 23:14:00 - [46] There are two reasons. 1) To force people to log in. Many people log in with the intent to just change their skills - but end up staying on longer to do other things that catch their attention. Without the skill changing, they wouldn't log on at all. 2) To prevent people from farming characters and selling them on ebay. Imagine if people were able to queue up a capital-ready skill plan and not have to log on for a year. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
Whoopie DooDah	Posted - 2009.10.28 23:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. Create your own extension.... 23h 59m with low level skills and make the last one a 15 day skill. no problem.
Lolion Reglo Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2009.10.29 00:38:00 - [48] I love how CCP doesnt even need to reply to such a post to get their message across. Quit complaining about a lack of a long skill que and enjoy what you have. Its fines as is especially when you get your skills trained up past 24 hours anyway. then its true purpoese shows, to allow people to not have to log in at weird hours to set up another skill. they can log in at their normal times each day and then que up the next skill to begin after the current one training. So basically its not for filling it up with a bunch of tiny quick skills. Its to allow players to better manage their time in game.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.29 01:02:00 - [49] Your skill queue is only limited to 24 hours? Gosh, I've put skills adding up to three weeks and more in mine... The 'problem' that they solved by adding the queue was that many players cannot log in at any arbitrary point during the day to change skills, which made, for example, 12 hour skills basically impossible to manage without losing training time. One proposed suggestion that was very popular was a two-skill queue, allowing players to back up a 'short' skill with a 'long' skill to avoid training time loss. CCP very generously took this one step further by allowing us to queue up just less than a full 24 hours worth of short skills followed by a long skill. Since most humans lives revolve around daily cycles, this makes a lot of sense, giving maximum flexibility for active players while limiting abuses of the system by largely inactive players (or inactive accounts). This was a great change. So if you have several 'days' worth of short skills to train, here's how you do it: 1) Pick out a long skill (more than a day or two, or longer if you don't log on frequently). 2) Queue up about a days worth of skills, with the long skill at the end. 3) Go to sleep, to work, etc. Log in the next night (or the night after, or the week after, as time allows). 4) Add in another days worth of skills in front of your long skill. 5) Live life, etc. Repeat as often as necessary. Eventually you will have trained not only that pile of short skills, but a long skill too! And it only requires about 5 minutes per day's worth of short skills, and can be spread out with days or weeks between logins without losing training time. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.10.29 01:16:00 - [50] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/10/2009 01:17:28 I can understand the arguments for not having an unlimited skill queue, but why not increase it to 72 hours? Or 96? IOW, enough to cover a weekend away from the internet (yes, there is such a thing). Currently, let's say you have a skill finishing over a weekend when you'll be out of town and unable to log in. Friday morning you log on, check your skill queue, and find that you have 25 hours left on it. Now you have two unappealing options: 1) Cancel the current skill and train something else that will maximize training time. It's annoying at best, and it really sucks if you need that skill as a prerequisite. 2) Allow it to finish, but waste all the time between when it finishes and when you return on sunday night. On the other hand, with a 72 hour queue, you can easily cover the time that you will be away from your computer, and ensure maximum efficiency. It's a pretty fair compromise that covers most short periods away from EVE (and most people will bring laptops on longer vacations if they're lucky enough to have them). However, it's short enough that you're still logging on frequently (why CCP considers it a good thing that I log on for 30 seconds, press the "add to queue button" and immediately log off, I have no clue) and not just loading a 6-month skill plan and forgetting about EVE. Alternatively, allow a 24 hour queue, plus one (and only one) skill which may begin outside it. That way you can keep the 25 hours that remain in the queue when you leave, and then set Caldari Titan V training once it finishes. -----------

Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:21:00 - [51] Personally, I would enjoy a longer skill queue, I would also expect them to implement it if the numbers were larger. Rather than sit here saying "Give an inch..." because to be honest if I am paying monthly for a product I'd expect them to take on user feedback. With the game in its current state, enjoyable yet full of scammers/macro'ers and bugs I can't understand how they come out with certain statements. My main gripe is their resilience to do anything about scammers. Scamming is the most profitable profession going which usually results in emo rage quits and disgruntled customers. So for them to allow scammers to operate without any sort of punishment and say its pretty much your fault we have made it easy for them to scam. Yet turn around and say longer skill queues will decrease numbers, I find it quite ridiuclous... There has been 3 occasions over my last 7/8 months playing Eve that I have left the game for more than a month. Coming back from work logging on, putting some pointless skill on so that I don't feel like I'm missing out as much on what I paid for, maybe participating in some random ship spinning. For those stretches of time CCP still made a profit from me and they suffered minimal resource usage from myself. The only interactive thing I did was say to a buddy that I was too busy to play. For some people they have played too long, paying for Eve is like paying for a electricity or gas bill... You need to. Many would now find it silly not to train their skills for a month or many have paid for a years subscription only to find they want a break. So why not? Why not give us a longer skill queue. Why sit on the fence and say "Give them an inch and they take a mile"? With expressions like that it almost sounds like you don't want them to listen to ANY comments we have. The whole point of upgrading the game and updating it is to increase its capacity for enjoyment. If someone has paid for 6 months game time and then wants to take a break but train some long skills without logging on, why not let us do that we have paid the money and we WILL come back? The only really reason it sounds like is to get the statistics up for active users. Finally you might of noticed I'm for another upgrade on the skill queue, I'd like to see us being able to queue past 24 hours without having to set an unnecessary level V skill just to see me through for 36D only to gain 5% to ROF and 10% missile velocity. When I could of trained various things. Christ if It could be queued up like EveMon I think EVERYBODY would be overjoyed... There would be no reason for complaint.
Modrak Vseth Veto.	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:31:00 - [52] Originally by: amdul kabar It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee. You haven't played many other MMOs, have you? EVE is one of the VERY FEW MMOs that provide free updates. I can't think of any other one that I've played that provided free full expansions.
Pellegro	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:44:00 - [53] Originally by: Catherine Frasier The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) While this explanation, I think, is probably dead-right, I myself would enjoy a long queue. Not because I farm skills or whatever, but because sometimes I go days without logging into Eve (gasp!) or even a computer at all (WTFOMGSATAN????). Its true. I go on vacations, go camping, go into the city and stay with friends for the weekend, etc. Sure, I can set a long skill and forget about it, but that usually doesnt' fit in with teh skill plan I worked so hard to make :D So do I feel entitled to it? No. Do I think it would be a nice addition? Yes.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:49:00 - [54] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 29/10/2009 03:50:11 Originally by: Modrak Vseth Originally by: amdul kabar It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee. You haven't played many other MMOs, have you? EVE is one of the VERY FEW MMOs that provide free updates. I can't think of any other one that I've played that provided free full expansions. Eve isn't really one of the few, Christ Runescape, otherwise known has GOONscape. That had new content every other week and a major update every other month more or less. That has an absolutely massive player base compared to Eve. You might be thinking of WoW but why compare our game to other MMO's. I still expect updates etc when I'm paying a monthly fee. WoW just doesn't need to due to the amount of people who would stay either way. Guild Wars on the other hand NEEDS to charge for other game expansions as it is a one of payment based system. Eve NEEDS to be updated regularly and thats what part of subscription is about, without expansions or expansion which need paying for Eve's relatively small user base would disappear. Not many people would pay for a monthly subscription and for updates. Especially when you can only train one character at a time effectively.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.29 03:50:00 - [55] Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.10.29 04:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... Sigh
Eric Hartman	Posted - 2009.10.29 04:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Modrak Vseth Originally by: amdul kabar It's like saying, I'm glad CCP is developing more content with no extra charge, when it's something we should expect as we are paying for it with the monthly fee. You haven't played many other MMOs, have you? EVE is one of the VERY FEW MMOs that provide free updates. I can't think of any other one that I've played that provided free full expansions. Umm, City of Heroes/City of Villains..
mechtech Entropy Industries	Posted - 2009.10.29 07:49:00 - [58] I've heard CCP talk about this before. Quite simply, they want people to have to log in to change their skills. CCP believes that having people log in to change skills can make people more involved in the game, because when they log in they might get a convo from a friend, or get an eve-mail that causes them to play a little bit.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2009.10.29 07:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/10/2009 01:17:28 I can understand the arguments for not having an unlimited skill queue, but why not increase it to 72 hours? Or 96? IOW, enough to cover a weekend away from the internet (yes, there is such a thing). Currently, let's say you have a skill finishing over a weekend when you'll be out of town and unable to log in. Friday morning you log on, check your skill queue, and find that you have 25 hours left on it. Now you have two unappealing options: 1) Cancel the current skill and train something else that will maximize training time. It's annoying at best, and it really sucks if you need that skill as a prerequisite. 2) Allow it to finish, but waste all the time between when it finishes and when you return on sunday night. On the other hand, with a 72 hour queue, you can easily cover the time that you will be away from your computer, and ensure maximum efficiency. It's a pretty fair compromise that covers most short periods away from EVE (and most people will bring laptops on longer vacations if they're lucky enough to have them). However, it's short enough that you're still logging on frequently (why CCP considers it a good thing that I log on for 30 seconds, press the "add to queue button" and immediately log off, I have no clue) and not just loading a 6-month skill plan and forgetting about EVE. Alternatively, allow a 24 hour queue, plus one (and only one) skill which may begin outside it. That way you can keep the 25 hours that remain in the queue when you leave, and then set Caldari Titan V training once it finishes. While this sounds reasonable, this is really the recipe for an unlimited skill queue. Because if the "I am away for the weekend - I must be able to progress like I was here to invest time" argument is valid then so is the "I am away for the whole week - I must ..." and then the "I am away for the next 3 weeks - I must ...". The point is: you are investing less time! Why do you think you should get the same results? And you can always suspend training a skill and resume later. You won't lose a single SP. All you really lose is training the skills in your preferred order. And if that "optimal" skill training order is so important to you you will find a way to be online - it really isn't that hard. Originally by: Catherine Frasier The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) QFT.
Lana's Alt Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.10.29 07:57:00 - [60] Originally by: De'Veldrin My only gripe about the skill queue is that it doesn't take into account pre-requisites, so I have to insert filler skills between, say Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1. QFT.. Seriously.. I made WAY to many characters without the skill queue and lost WAY too much sleep doing it. 24h for me is the perfect length as it means you have to log in exactly once a day to keep the queue full. Shorter and it wouldn't fix the problem, longer and it would cause other problems.. Fixing the prereqs thing would make it perfect in every way, which just cant happen in eve, so leave it as it is. Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first.

Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 08:05:00 - [61] I'm just going to chime in to join the "because 24h is all you need" side. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.29 08:17:00 - [62] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 08:21:25 Originally by: mechtech I've heard CCP talk about this before. Quite simply, they want people to have to log in to change their skills. CCP believes that having people log in to change skills can make people more involved in the game, because when they log in they might get a convo from a friend, or get an eve-mail that causes them to play a little bit. This is like the special chemistry used in cigarettes to make the tobacco more addictive. MMO's include annoying stuff ike this because the developers like to pretend they are providing a environment like old-style Dungeons and Dragons. Only a tiny minority rolePlay in EvE. These limitations (the 24-hour Skill Queue is just one of many) are just pointless annoyances for the majority.
Kanuo Ashkeron Wormhole supervisory and Investigation team Blanket Men	Posted - 2009.10.29 08:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Becq Starforged Your skill queue is only limited to 24 hours? Gosh, I've put skills adding up to three weeks and more in mine... The 'problem' that they solved by adding the queue was that many players cannot log in at any arbitrary point during the day to change skills, which made, for example, 12 hour skills basically impossible to manage without losing training time. One proposed suggestion that was very popular was a two-skill queue, allowing players to back up a 'short' skill with a 'long' skill to avoid training time loss. CCP very generously took this one step further by allowing us to queue up just less than a full 24 hours worth of short skills followed by a long skill. Since most humans lives revolve around daily cycles, this makes a lot of sense, giving maximum flexibility for active players while limiting abuses of the system by largely inactive players (or inactive accounts). This was a great change. So if you have several 'days' worth of short skills to train, here's how you do it: 1) Pick out a long skill (more than a day or two, or longer if you don't log on frequently). 2) Queue up about a days worth of skills, with the long skill at the end. 3) Go to sleep, to work, etc. Log in the next night (or the night after, or the week after, as time allows). 4) Add in another days worth of skills in front of your long skill. 5) Live life, etc. Repeat as often as necessary. Eventually you will have trained not only that pile of short skills, but a long skill too! And it only requires about 5 minutes per day's worth of short skills, and can be spread out with days or weeks between logins without losing training time. This. And no, if you want to train hundreds of short skills you should login every day or two. Period.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 08:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Only a tiny minority rolePlay in EvE. What does that have to do with anything? Quote: These limitations (the 24-hour Skill Queue is just one of many) are just pointless annoyances for the majority. Doubtful, but please prove it. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.29 08:52:00 - [65] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 08:54:24 @Tippia Anything which reduces player efficiency or wastes player time is "bad" for the player. Of course, the game designers can choose to prescribe "correct play". MMORPG have "role-playing" in the name for historical reasons. "RP" or "realism" is often used as a justification for game characteristics (like the old "warp to someplace near the jumpgate" thing) which are changed because they don't work well in practice. EvE is a gane. Its lowSpeed physics is most like a submarine in very deep water. So lets not think too deeply on realism. So - what happens when the majority of players believe something "realistic" (e.g. every rookies' 30-45 minute trip to Arnon /lol) is just a PITA? Should role-play considerations dominate? Should there be some definition of "EvE reality" which controls how game features are implemented? There is no harmful effect on others if some players queue up skills for the next 10 years. Some people want this. Others, who want to do things differently, can still limit themselves to 24 hours. So the arguments against are either "role play" or "we are so weak-minded that when longer queues are available we must use them".

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.10.29 09:05:00 - [66] Seeing as I was around for years where I had to time the skill completion as there was no queue, I'm quite happy with just the 24h one. More is not needed imo, we did fine without the queue, so I am confident we do even better with the 24h queue.

Serpents smile	Posted - 2009.10.29 09:15:00 - [67] Originally by: Chribba Seeing as I was around for years where I had to time the skill completion as there was no queue, I'm quite happy with just the 24h one. More is not needed imo, we did fine without the queue, so I am confident we do even better with the 24h queue. Almost this. Just be happy we got one as it is, the hours I lost when we didn't had one still make me weep.
Jekyl Eraser	Posted - 2009.10.29 09:29:00 - [68] You should have unlimited skillque. Players have to use external programs to manage the skills. Only reason i can think of that speaks for limited skill ques is that the effort and stress of having the kill training constantly, increases the SP value in your mind. Effort = value. But if you wanted to have SP some effort, you'd only get sp for killing 10 rats and bringing their tails back to the agent.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.10.29 09:38:00 - [69] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. You might think it's a crap excuse, the majority of other people don't. Its a valid concern to CCP that people will sit AFK training and do nothing in Eve. The same concern is probably why they disabled ghost training as well. I'm all for it, people should log in and play, not sit AFK constantly skillpoint farming. Making the process automated would just further the problem. To be honest, you're one of a tiny minority whining and bleating about this when you should be happy that you even have a 24 hour queue. Bit Harsh There SKUNK (o)
Alfred Lichtenstein	Posted - 2009.10.29 09:56:00 - [70] Er...... I think there is one large concern to all those saying you have to log in or skill farming to build a character. You have to pay to play, or not to play. I like eve because I dont have to play to get better cause of the levelling I don't feel guilty for not playing for this reason! Bottom line I pay my 12.99 a month if I want a ten year skill cue and not want to log in what sweat is that off ccp's back? some of us have jobs, families and women (men) who want to sleep with us rather than just being friends!!!! thats called RL or real life I am not gaining anything from having a constant offline skill cue thats as i see it what my 12.99 a month pays for me skilling so forcing me to log in is simply totally annoying. if someone wants to character mine for a year and pay up 12.99 a month or several hours earning the isk to buy a GTC every month then as I see it they have earnt it. oh and those people saying put titan V on at the end of your skill cue need to remember that sometimes you haven't learnt titan IV yet (or any other long skill) this happened to me this year when I got married I wanted battleship V but only had 2 days on amarr battleship IV (and that was trying to time it perfect)

Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 09:59:00 - [71] Edited by: Tippia on 29/10/2009 10:06:08 Originally by: Gsptlsnz Anything which reduces player efficiency or wastes player time is "bad" for the player. Of course, the game designers can choose to prescribe "correct play". MMORPG have "role-playing" in the name for historical reasons. "RP" or "realism" is often used as a justification for game characteristics (like the old "warp to someplace near the jumpgate" thing) which are changed because they don't work well in practice. EvE is a gane. Its lowSpeed physics is most like a submarine in very deep water. So lets not think too deeply on realism. So - what happens when the majority of players believe something "realistic" (e.g. every rookies' 30-45 minute trip to Arnon /lol) is just a PITA? Should role-play considerations dominate? Should there be some definition of "EvE reality" which controls how game features are implemented? Again: what does any of this have to do with the skill queue? The old arguments against having it at all and the arguments against limiting it to 24h have never been expressed in terms of RP or realism, but in terms of "we want you to log in." You're constructing a huge straw man here. Quote: So the arguments against are either "role play" or "we are so weak-minded that when longer queues are available we must use them". Incorrect. The argument against it is, and always has been: they want you to log in and play the game. The argument for limiting it to 24h is the same, only now they've actually made that argument even stronger: instead of having to log in at wierd hours or juggle half-finished skills, you can not log in at your convenience — i.e. at a time of day where you're more likely to stick around and play (you know, the actual reason behind not letting training be a completely AFK affair). Unless the Earth gets whacked out of alignment, there's no reason to ever change the queue length because 24h is all that's needed to let you access the time of day that suits you best. The reason hasn't changed, only been strengthened. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA	Posted - 2009.10.29 10:00:00 - [72] Sir... We didn't have a skill que ever before, this one is perfect, solved all the problems one would ever have, sure you can make a 365 day skill que, it's not a scripting problem, but then farming characters would become a normal thing and CCP tries to fight it and imo they are doing it pretty well, still keeping the player experiance really at the top level with skill training. Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.29 10:10:00 - [73] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 10:10:57 CCP 1: "we want you to log in" Why not CCP 2: "we want you to pay a monthly fee, to participate any way you like" There's no objective logic behind the first one. Character sales for ISK are legal and encouraged, so it isn't that. What is it then? Do EvE players 'like* CCP telling them how to play their game? RP? Democracy? - maybe we should have a player vote on removing highSec (Or lowSec) from the game? There has to be some reason CCP prefers (1) over (2).
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2009.10.29 10:11:00 - [74] I always like it that the people that whine the most about the 24hr skillqueue are mostly people that have played eve since long before that. Would you want CCP to completely kill the queue so that we get put back pre-apocrypha? I know for a fact that I wouldn't want that to happen. 24hrs is more then enough, just throw short skills in first and after 23hrs and 59 minutes throw in a big skill. thats how I train my alt anyway cheers, Faros
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 10:16:00 - [75] Edited by: Tippia on 29/10/2009 10:16:19 Originally by: Gsptlsnz There's no objective logic behind the first one. Yes there is. The more people log in, the better the game is. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.29 10:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Gsptlsnz There's no objective logic behind the first one. Yes there is. The more people log in, the better the game is. I'm not convinced this is true. I've seen a lot of claims that things were better when there were fewer players. And regardless of what others think, I can't believe that tricking people into logging on and playing more than they planned to is good for the players who are so fooled. See my earlier comparison to another industry that preys on human weaknesses.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.29 10:59:00 - [77] For a while I wanted the skill queue to be longer, but there's the question as already mentioned of "how long is long enough?". Make it 48h and people will want 72h, make it 72h and people will want 96h etc. There's usually always some long-ass skill that you eventually want to train that you can just stick on the end of the queue with the stuff you actually want to train now at the front. That way if you do end up being away longer than a day then you're still being productive in training the long skill.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.10.29 11:02:00 - [78] they could add a high rank skill that adds one day per level trained in learning for skill que. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 11OCT09
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.29 11:16:00 - [79] Originally by: Nova Fox they could add a high rank skill that adds one day per level trained in learning for skill que. Sorry, but No. It would just become another "must get asap" skill like learnings. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 11:35:00 - [80] Originally by: Gsptlsnz I'm not convinced this is true. So? It doesn't have to. You wanted to know why they limited the queue and why they were against it to begin with. You've had that answered. You wanted to know the logic behind it, and now you do. If you take issue with these explanations for some fuzzy ethical reasons then that's your problem. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

Wideen Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.29 11:58:00 - [81] you have to include something concerning CCP profit, like power of 2 etc, if you want an official CCP reply, I'm serious
Rosolo Refili	Posted - 2009.10.29 12:11:00 - [82] It's profit pure and simple if you set up a cue for six years and then went away and went on holiday or something come back a month later and don't play the game but simply skill up eventually you will quit cause you think having a few bits change on a game you never play isn't worth subscription! there is the answer! everything this game does it to network and keep you in game sometimes you'll be diseffective with eve then you will log on and see an eve mail about an alliance op and get back into it! long log off equals more discontinued subscriptions! end of! people forget one thing CCP is a company and they need to make money esp in iceland :P I don't blame them for it cause its a good game and afk skillers pays for my game to be better
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.10.29 12:30:00 - [83] 12hours is good enough for me to make sure I don't have to do an alarm clock skill change. I certainly wasn't planning on 'PLAYING' EVE at 3am, so missing having to sneak off from being in bed with the Mrs at 3am just to change skills does nothing but 'keep' me playing the game. As for longer than 24 hours, you fail to understand part of the game is the tactical and timely selection of skills. Wish such a thing existed in 'other' mmos tbh. I might pick up a second mmo if that was the case, however Left For Dead 2 demo is out .. this will have to do ;0 Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source. pretty deep coming from you
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.29 14:00:00 - [84] Originally by: mechtech I've heard CCP talk about this before. Quite simply, they want people to have to log in to change their skills. CCP believes that having people log in to change skills can make people more involved in the game, because when they log in they might get a convo from a friend, or get an eve-mail that causes them to play a little bit. Wanting them to play won't make them play. All it does is frustrate and irritate them. I want CCP to get off their asses and fix the UI, but that doesn't make them do it either. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.29 14:19:00 - [85] Originally by: Taedrin There are two reasons. 1) To force people to log in. Many people log in with the intent to just change their skills - but end up staying on longer to do other things that catch their attention. Without the skill changing, they wouldn't log on at all. 2) To prevent people from farming characters and selling them on ebay. Imagine if people were able to queue up a capital-ready skill plan and not have to log on for a year. Both of these have been debunked to death. Forcing players to log in doesn't work for two reasons: One, sometimes they cannot. It's not a matter of not wanting to play, it's a matter of not being near a computer with an internet connection. Two, you can't force people to enjoy something. They'll either log in to play, or not. Making them log in simply doesn't work. It irritates them and frustrates them. Nothing more. Do you really think that the lack of a skill queue stops people from farming characters for real money? It's a job, and they're doing to do it anyway. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Isurus Paucus Omicron Resource Technologies Limited	Posted - 2009.10.29 14:21:00 - [86] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Gsptlsnz There's no objective logic behind the first one. Yes there is. The more people log in, the better the game is. I'm not convinced this is true. I've seen a lot of claims that things were better when there were fewer players. And regardless of what others think, I can't believe that tricking people into logging on and playing more than they planned to is good for the players who are so fooled. See my earlier comparison to another industry that preys on human weaknesses. First, go take a basic marketing class, preferably one that covers customer contact points, and come back and say there is no objective reasoning behind a 24 hour queue. It is good business to have regular contact with your customers as it reminds them that you exist and if done properly, helps reinforce their desire to continue to pay you. For CCP, a 24-hour queue is just about right as it reduces customer frustration, but gives their subscribers a reason to log in every so often. Also, claiming majority does not make it so, and besides, even if (and I use 'if' most strongly) there was a majority consensus that such a change was better, it would not make it the correct thing for CCP to do. (reference "Fallacy of Majority")
KaarBaak Minmatar Squirrel Team	Posted - 2009.10.29 14:22:00 - [87] It seems the people requesting the extension of the queue are ignoring the actual reason that CCP implemented the queue in the first place. Tippia has explained it quite well. The queue was added so that people would not have to get up at odd hours simply to start their next skill training. It had nothing to do allowing players to map out extended training plans. CCP resisted the queue for a long time, but were finally convinced with regard to the argument above. They were implementing it to avoid 'alarm clock training.' 24-hrs accomodates that perfectly. CCP fixed the problem. People desiring a longer queue are raising an entirely new issue unrelated to why the queue was created in the first place. KB KB Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.29 14:24:00 - [88] Originally by: Chribba Seeing as I was around for years where I had to time the skill completion as there was no queue, I'm quite happy with just the 24h one. More is not needed imo, we did fine without the queue, so I am confident we do even better with the 24h queue. I've been kickin' it since 2005 myself, and I'm very grateful for the queue that we do have now. But...just because the current solution is 90%, or even 95% adequate doesn't mean we should stop trying to improve it to the point that we can all say it's "awesome", and have no complaints about it. The only time I ever aimed for mediocrity was finals in college where I knew in advance that the best possible score still wouldn't increase my GPA, so I didn't waste the time studying. In this situation it's possible to further improve the skill queue, so we're not done, and won't be until it's perfect. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 15:19:00 - [89] Edited by: Tippia on 29/10/2009 15:19:32 Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 But...just because the current solution is 90%, or even 95% adequate doesn't mean we should stop trying to improve it to the point that we can all say it's "awesome", and have no complaints about it. The thing is, the current solution is 100% adequate for the problem it tries to solve, so what is there to improve? You're asking it to solve a completely different problem that CCP (and quite a large number of players) don't perceive as a problem at all, so if you feel it doesn't live up to your expectations, then it's because those expectations are flawed — not the solution. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Stupid McStupidson Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:07:00 - [90] Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. QFT

Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:50:00 - [91] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 16:50:30 @ Isurus Paucus There's no connection between what you quoted and what you said. You seem to be comparing online gaming to retail shopping. And I didn't mention majority at all. Feel free to say what you want, but please don't drag me into it. If you edit me out of your post, I'll edit this one. @ Tippia Denial isn't argument. You offered no evidence for the claim that "there is no problem to solve". OP and many other posters have stated they would like a longer (possibly open-ended) Skill Queue.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:13:00 - [92] Originally by: Gsptlsnz There's no connection between what you quoted and what you said. Yes there is: a reason why they would want you to log in every now and then. Quote: And I didn't mention majority at all. Yes you did. You said that "[t]hese limitations (the 24-hour Skill Queue is just one of many) are just pointless annoyances for the majority." Quote: Denial isn't argument. You offered no evidence for the claim that "there is no problem to solve". OP and many other posters have stated they would like a longer (possibly open-ended) Skill Queue. Actually, I did — you just keep missing the point about what problem it solves: one of skill changes, not skill training. More specifically, it solves the problem of having skills finish and needing to be changed at inopportune times of the day (middle of the night, middle of the working day). It solves that problem completely. The OP's complaint is about a completely different problem — one that the skill queue was never meant to solve, and one that CCP adamantly refuses to solve because they see it as a good thing rather than a problem. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Isurus Paucus Omicron Resource Technologies Limited	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:24:00 - [93] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 16:50:30 There's no connection between what you quoted and what you said. You seem to be comparing online gaming to retail shopping. And I didn't mention majority at all. Feel free to say what you want, but please don't drag me into it. If you edit me out of your post, I'll edit this one. I was actually referring to an earlier post where you state that the queue is a pointless annoyance for the majority. How the "majority" feel about it is unknown and even if they DID think it was pointlessly annoying, it would not make it so. And in some ways, I am comparing it to a retail operation as the principles are similar, though in my experience, contact marketing is more effective when it comes to subscriptions. You want the customer to interact with your product on a regular basis so that they continue to perceive the value in it People who don't utilize their subscriptions very often are more likely to cancel than those who do. Now, that's not to say that CCP was thinking that when they considered queue length, but from the perspective of someone who spent a number of years working with online subscription marketing, it makes a ton of sense to do it that way. There is a very real, objective reason to keep the queue only long enough to reduce inconvenience, but not long enough to significantly impact the need for customer interaction.
Dratic Honour Bound Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:39:00 - [94] The 24 Hour skill queue is a vast improvement over what it was. I don't believe it should be more than 24 hours, i get the whole i'm away for a few days so it should be more argument but do what we did in the past get the long skills out of the way or partially as you'll probably just keep avoid training them. One feature thrown around was being able to inject skill books you had in your hanger but not sure if it were technical problems that didn't get that in. Getting that to work would fix the last remaining type of alarm clock style waiting so you wouldn't lose time waiting for the prerequesit to train and inject the new skill.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:13:00 - [95] The skill queque is at least workable... less than 24 hours would have been asking for people to always have the game on their mind or fall behind. Still, I do think there is an element of encouraging a somewhat dysfunctional attachment to the game reality. I'll plead guilty. I get wrapped up in the mmo's allowing my mind to wander to how I'm doing in the game or what I'm going to do next in the game when I've got idle moments elsewhere or want to move my mind away from uncomfortable real world things. Maybe we should consider it only within the context of what seems appropiate to active MMO players. I think though, that a pretty sizable percentage of non-mmo players would see an urge to log into the imaginary realilty almost daily for fear of falling behind as something sort of warped or obsessive. Now, I don't think we need to live by others standards, and thats not my point. Its just that lots of times someone with an outside perspective can see a personal hang-up better than people with same obsession fueling each other on . Sure, I understand a profit motive to keep people involved in the game, but, other type of entertainment like TV series keep people hooked with week or more intervals between shows. In some sense, I think the MMO operators have some level of responsibility to TRY to formulate game mechanics in a sort of way that they don't require what might be a dysfuntional pre-ocpupation or things like skinner box rewards. I'm not saying it should be all their responsibility or that they need to sacrifice game play for others because of it. I'm not talking about time limits to play or anything close. It just seems, that if they can make a minor change that made it a bit easier to put the game mentally aside for a few days, didn't give a reason to duck away from your main reality to check in with the game reality for 5 minutes, it might be a bit healthier. Eve is far far better than most in this regard, so I'm not painting them as a villian. Much less grinding requirements for a great many activities , only if you fancy getting expensive ships blown up, and even there they give players the selling plex method to let them side step ours of grinding isk if they don't enjoy that part of the game. So, I'm not in anyway casting CCP as a villain, just mentioning that if they wanted to take another step towards not disadvantaging players who find playing three days a week a sufficient time and focus allocation, that they might increase the length of the Queque. I'm a freak who'll even procrastinate other activities to post things on these boards so it won't effect me either way. But I know it woudl be more balanced life if I could put the game out of my game more days a week, and only think of it the nights I had committed to doing so.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:24:00 - [96] Originally by: Tippia You wanted to know the logic behind it, and now you do. If you take issue with these explanations for some fuzzy ethical reasons then that's your problem. I mean I don't really care because I got Capsuleer push on my iPhone to alert me when I got 24 hours to re-queue skills. But the logic behind it doesn't really make sense because unless there is something magical about logging in versus having an active account but not logging in, then I don't see the difference. Unless for some technical reason if they did add it, they could not prevent people from queuing up 2 years worth of skills and then cancel their accounts only to reactivate 2 years later and have a character ready to sell. I mean if you are farming characters, you'll log in anyways so its not like its going to stop you.
Cir Loin	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:30:00 - [97] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso I'm a freak who'll even procrastinate other activities to post things on these boards so it won't effect me either way. But I know it woudl be more balanced life if I could put the game out of my game more days a week, and only think of it the nights I had committed to doing so. The best way to stop drinking is to put the glass down.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Captain Tardbar But the logic behind it doesn't really make sense because unless there is something magical about logging in versus having an active account but not logging in, then I don't see the difference. What part of it doesn't make sense? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:36:00 - [99] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 29/10/2009 03:27:14 Personally, I would enjoy a longer skill queue, I would also expect them to implement it if the numbers were larger. Rather than sit here saying "Give an inch..." because to be honest if I am paying monthly for a product I'd expect them to take on user feedback. With the game in its current state, enjoyable yet full of scammers/macro'ers and bugs I can't understand how they come out with certain statements. My main gripe is their resilience to do anything about scammers. Scamming is the most profitable profession going which usually results in emo rage quits and disgruntled customers. So for them to allow scammers to operate without any sort of punishment and say its pretty much your fault we have made it easy for them to scam. Yet turn around and say longer skill queues will decrease numbers, I find it quite ridiuclous... There has been 3 occasions over my last 7/8 months playing Eve that I have left the game for more than a month. Coming back from work logging on, putting some pointless skill on so that I don't feel like I'm missing out as much on what I paid for, maybe participating in some random ship spinning. For those stretches of time CCP still made a profit from me and they suffered minimal resource usage from myself. The only interactive thing I did was say to a buddy that I was too busy to play. For some people they have played too long, paying for Eve is like paying for a electricity or gas bill... You need to. Many would now find it silly not to train their skills for a month or many have paid for a years subscription only to find they want a break. So why not? Why not give us a longer skill queue. Why sit on the fence and say "Give them an inch and they take a mile"? With expressions like that it almost sounds like you don't want them to listen to ANY comments we have. The whole point of upgrading the game and updating it is to increase its capacity for enjoyment. If someone has paid for 6 months game time and then wants to take a break but train some long skills without logging on, why not let us do that we have paid the money and we WILL come back? The only really reason it sounds like is to get the statistics up for active users. Finally you might of noticed I'm for another upgrade on the skill queue, I'd like to see us being able to queue past 24 hours without having to set an unnecessary level V skill just to see me through for 36D only to gain 5% to ROF and 10% missile velocity. When I could of trained various things. Christ if It could be queued up like EveMon I think EVERYBODY would be overjoyed... There would be no reason for complaint. There is no real reason why this should not be implemented from a business point of view. Our skill queue stops after our subscription expires. I would happily pay for a years subscription if I could put a months skill queue up with various skills rather than just 2 shorts and a long skill. However I still can't get over their excuse of people won't really play the game. For F***s sake... CCP's excuses have always been poor and I don't think that will ever end. It might be that they don't want to take the extra workload on. Nice stealth nerf scammin whine concealed in that Wall of Text there. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Korizan Red Mercury Incorporated	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:38:00 - [100] Edited by: Korizan on 29/10/2009 18:39:49 As others have said it is because they want you to log in. Personally I LOVE the skill que. It has allowed me to get a ton of short skills trained up. Hint: Put a bunch of short skills qued up and make sure it they will all complete before the day is up. Then put a long one on the end, now you have a training plan that can last a month. Next time you log in add a few more in front of the long training skill. rinse and repeat as needed. Or if you have one that lasts 3 days. Well you have a 23 hour window you can log in @ any time to add another. VERY NICE. THank you CCP, it was really ugly before. And sorry I will take this any day over the whole grinding levels. Don't log on for a week and your group is in a whole different tier and you are finding a new group or they have to mentor down and do the same stuff all over again. Never again.

Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:40:00 - [101] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Captain Tardbar But the logic behind it doesn't really make sense because unless there is something magical about logging in versus having an active account but not logging in, then I don't see the difference. What part of it doesn't make sense? The part where 90 seconds worth of logging on every other week is actually playing the game? What do they expect me to do? "Whoops! I slipped and fell into your local chat!" If I'm not going to play... I'm not going to play. It doesn't make sense.
Isurus Paucus Omicron Resource Technologies Limited	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:43:00 - [102] Edited by: Isurus Paucus on 29/10/2009 18:45:21 Edited by: Isurus Paucus on 29/10/2009 18:44:12 Originally by: Captain Tardbar But the logic behind it doesn't really make sense because unless there is something magical about logging in versus having an active account but not logging in, then I don't see the difference. There is nothing magical behind the decision, but there are a number of very important principles behind something like a queue. Even if you don't socialize when re-queuing (which, even if you don't, does not indicate what anyone else does), it keeps the game somewhat present in your mind. It also keeps a very important game mechanic from becoming nearly hands off, which I'm pretty sure is huge for CCP. This does make things like character farming at something of an effort.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:53:00 - [103] Originally by: Isurus Paucus it keeps the game somewhat present in your mind. It keeps it in my mind that the game is annoying! Its not like a hard core character farmer could write macros to auto log in his characters according to a script. Hrm... Maybe its so annoying that it enrages me so bad that the next time I log in, I'll be so mad I'll go ninja salvage someone or blow up their objectives just for spite. Wait a minute... I know what CCP is doing.... Nevermind!
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:57:00 - [104] I think the big point several people in this thread are missing is that the introduction of the queue was not meant to fix the problem of the queue not being long enough. As my ethics teacher used to tell us - if you ask the wrong questions, you will always get the wrong answers. CCP Problem: Our customers are getting cheesed off having to log in at 3am when they would like to be sleeping to change skills or losing skill points during the day while at work. CCP Solution: Give them a 24 hour queue so they can log in at a time of their choosing during the day and set up new skills. Yes the 24 hour number was arbitrary, but I doubt someone at CCP just threw darts at a board until they found a number they thought looked good. Having it at 12, or 48, or 1024 would be no less arbitrary, but 24 makes it easy for people to get into a routine about it (psychology FTW) and it keeps their customers happy about not having to log in at 3 in the morning. The problem of "The queue's not long enough (for me/us)" is completely separate from the original problem which CCP already solved (as has been stated in this thread more times than I care to count). Frankly the lack of a queue was more intrusive and disruptive to RL for a lot of people, and probably led to more cancelled accounts (though that is only a supposition) than the current queue would. Quite contrary to the "CCP is telling you how to play", the skill queue puts the power back in my hands to determine when and how I want to play. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Modrak Vseth Veto.	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:00:00 - [105] Edited by: Modrak Vseth on 29/10/2009 19:01:26 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Eve isn't really one of the few, Christ Runescape, otherwise known has GOONscape. That had new content every other week and a major update every other month more or less. That has an absolutely massive player base compared to Eve. Calling Runescape a MMO is like calling Battlefield:Heroes an FPS. Plus, while Runescape is "free", you have ingame adverts and you also get a different level of content depending on if you pay the extra 6 bucks or not. Originally by: Eric Hardman Umm, City of Heroes/City of Villains.. Cool I never played CoH/CoV (wasn't interested in the genre) so I can't comment on that. Regardless, 2 examples out of... dozens of MMOs? EQ, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, LoTR:O, Conan, the list goes for MMOs you have to pay a monthly sub PLUS for each expansion. The point is CCP gives us an awful lot for the 15 bucks we pay them every month. You can't honestly whine that you deserve a longer training queue simply because it's a time based system rather then an "experience gained" based system.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:02:00 - [106] Edited by: Tippia on 29/10/2009 19:02:41 ^^ What Isurus Paucus said, and in addition… Originally by: Captain Tardbar The part where 90 seconds worth of logging on every other week is actually playing the game? The part where you accidentally hear about someone needing some assistance and stay to help. The part where you ask "anything going on" and hear about this nice little fleet doing fun stuff. The part where someone says something incredibly stupid and you just have to explain what's what. Etc etc etc. Quote: What do they expect me to do? "Whoops! I slipped and fell into your local chat!" It happens more often than you think. If it doesn't happen to you, maybe you should look into changing corps because whichever one you're in now won't make you keep paying for long… Quote: If I'm not going to play... I'm not going to play. It doesn't make sense. Again, you'd be surprised… Plans change because something more interesting came up, and suddenly "not going to" turns into "wasn't planning on" turns into "am definitely". ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:16:00 - [107] Originally by: Modrak Vseth I never played CoH/CoV (wasn't interested in the genre) so I can't comment on that. Regardless, 2 examples out of... dozens of MMOs? EQ, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, LoTR:O, Conan, the list goes for MMOs you have to pay a monthly sub PLUS for each expansion. The point is CCP gives us an awful lot for the 15 bucks we pay them every month. You can't honestly whine that you deserve a longer training queue simply because it's a time based system rather then an "experience gained" based system. Warhammer Online gave a free expansion too, but I would like to point out something... WAR and EVE are mainly PvP games. Well... They both have PvE but its not really the world's best compared to WoW and its clones. So if CCP did make people pay for its expansions, then it would segregate the population and therefore lessen the playing experience. In WoW and its clones, the population was already segregated so it was a moot point. From a business sense it makes sense for CCP and Mythic to release free exspansions simply because if the players don't have other players to play with and against, then the game fails. WAR is a perfect example of this with its dead servers and declining subscription numbers. I tried playing WAR on an empty server just for poops and giggles.... Couldn't last 2 days. You need people. Still... The skill queue logic doesn't make sense to me other than to aggravate me into interacting with other players in ways they do not want. Perhaps that is also a "child psychology" ploy on CCP's part...
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:25:00 - [108] Originally by: Captain Tardbar I tried playing WAR on an empty server just for poops and giggles.... Couldn't last 2 days. You need people. Still... The skill queue logic doesn't make sense to me other than to aggravate me into interacting with other players in ways they do not want. Eh. Wait a minute… "I tried playing WAR on an empty server just for poops and giggles.... Couldn't last 2 days. You need people." ⇐ there you have the logic, staring you right in the face. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Paxcopia Potens	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:37:00 - [109] How is this for a possible solution. Say for every year you sub to eve, you get X number of additional hours of queue time that you can use when you need them. Think of it like a vacation mode. Make it seven days worth, or something similar. At any point that you know you are going to be AFK long enough to screw up your queue, you're allowed deduct from your bank of extra time and add those hours to your queue limit. You don't have to use them all at once, and once you run out that's it until your subscription anniversary, after which you will get X number of hours again. The time could even roll over, like cell phone minutes. This doesn't really help the character farmers, but it does help people who are going to be away. CCP doesn't lose any potential log-ins because the user is going to be away from the computer, unable to login anyway. Putting the limit on it means they will only use it when they absolutely have too. I think it is a good idea.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.29 20:11:00 - [110] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 29/10/2009 15:19:32 Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 But...just because the current solution is 90%, or even 95% adequate doesn't mean we should stop trying to improve it to the point that we can all say it's "awesome", and have no complaints about it. The thing is, the current solution is 100% adequate for the problem it tries to solve, so what is there to improve? You're asking it to solve a completely different problem that CCP (and quite a large number of players) don't perceive as a problem at all, so if you feel it doesn't live up to your expectations, then it's because those expectations are flawed ù not the solution. The problem I'm trying to solve is: Remove unnecessary restrictions on skill training that inconvenience the player and add nothing of value to the enjoyment of the game. And I'm perfectly willing to stop with a solution that does that, and not one iota more. What's your definition of the problem? - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request

Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 20:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 What's your definition of the problem? Having to juggle a dozen half-trained skills unless you want to get up at 3.27am to change to a new skill just as the current one finishes training. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.10.29 20:36:00 - [112] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 What's your definition of the problem? Having to juggle a dozen half-trained skills unless you want to get up at 3.27am to change to a new skill just as the current one finishes training. This. It was clear when the queue was first announced, that it would not meet the needs of some. It stopped the constant whining about it though, since it fixed the major complaints about the training system. While I don't really have anything against an infinite queue, I don't want it either. This is because I can keep training without logging on for weeks even now and for days with low SP characters. So the current system is more then enough for short term inactive periods and removes any inconvenience from active players. What you are left is people who don't actually play the game, and dev time can be used on better things, than catering to people who don't even play.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.29 20:52:00 - [113] The current system is fine for high-SP players and for alts. For rookies it's a PITA. EvE's players do more than enough to make play difficult for new players. They don't need any help from CCP, but they get plenty.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.10.29 21:05:00 - [114] Originally by: Wiley Peterson How is that a concern for CCP? People who are paying for an account and not logging in are giving free money to CCP. They don't have to increase their bandwidth or put more pressure on their server, and still make money. All they need is a little hard drive space to store the character info. How is CCP hurt? Because they want players in the game. Seeing as how its "player driven content..." Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 10:10:57 CCP 1: "we want you to log in" Why not CCP 2: "we want you to pay a monthly fee, to participate any way you like" There has to be some reason CCP prefers (1) over (2). You do get a vote, its called the CSM (whether you like it or not). I wasn't here, but I"m pretty sure the CCP added hi-sec without giving anyone else a vote on it. As a matter of fact, CCP is about to mess with the Sovreignty system, that people have been utilizing for years, and no one got a vote on that! CCP has been listening to players, and where appropriate, adding content or changing things. They also have done things that ***ed some players off (adding hi-sec, nerfing wardecs, changing the sovreignty system, changing contracts to make it harder to Scam someone...) The reason you don't have CCP #2 is because CCP has decided thats not how their doing things... Look at the 11% corp tax... oh wait... you already know that CCP does what THEY* think is best for their game... Even if it pee's off some of their customers...
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.29 21:18:00 - [115] Originally by: Gsptlsnz The current system is fine for high-SP players and for alts. For rookies it's a PITA. How so? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

CCP Fear	Posted - 2009.10.29 21:49:00 - [116] Originally by: Ishikaria If you want the official explanation, dev blogs are on the left... and google is your friend.. or you can just listen to the people in this thread... they all read the dev blog too. That blog! Tada!

Pellegro	Posted - 2009.10.29 23:52:00 - [117] Originally by: CCP Fear Originally by: Ishikaria If you want the official explanation, dev blogs are on the left... and google is your friend.. or you can just listen to the people in this thread... they all read the dev blog too. That blog! Tada! Originally by: DEVBLOG While it¦s cool that you can advance your character when you are offline, we did worry that if we introduced a skill queue some players might just set a queue for a year and become less active in EVE. That¦s not what a massively multiplayer ONLINE game is about. EVE is a social game and we want you exposed to other players so you can start making legends out of you or corporation and strive for domination. A long abstinence from EVE would ruin this for us. While I undersatnd the logic, its totally faulty. Anyone who is only interested in changing skills jumps on for 10 seconds, changes skills and logs. Anyone who wants to play, does so. Is it a huge issue? No. But the logic here is pretty silly .. it assumes people will play just b/c they have to login to change a skill. I'd suggest that people's decision to play or not ahs ZERO to do with that.
Oscardoodle Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.30 01:23:00 - [118] "Hi! We're CCP! We made this neato game! We want you to play it!" So you don't play often and just train skills. Ok, well then when CCP rolls out "Eve-Online Skill Training Extravaganza" you download it and tell me how awesome it is. Any other questions?
Drakarin Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.10.30 02:12:00 - [119] Originally by: SULAN BARHIR Whine, whine... this is not going to end until CCP completely removes the limit. 24h limit should stay as it is. Why? Because the limit has to be drawn somewhere. Not really, no. The limit is not paying for your account. If it's active, why should there be an arbitrary blockade? If CCP thinks most people wouldn't log in if there was no skill queue limit, well, that says a lot of what they think about their own game. There's plenty to it beyond just train up skills.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 05:54:00 - [120] Originally by: Pellegro While I undersatnd the logic, its totally faulty. Anyone who is only interested in changing skills jumps on for 10 seconds, changes skills and logs. Anyone who wants to play, does so. …which assumes a strict dichotomy between the two, and that's not just the case. You attribute a purposefulness to everyone's actions and decisions that sounds suspiciously ideal-type-like and unrealistic. Quote: it assumes people will play just b/c they have to login to change a skill. I'd suggest that people's decision to play or not ahs ZERO to do with that. Depends how you mean. Yes, their decision to play has nothing to do with their changing skills, as such — it has to do with what they discovered when logging on with the intention to "just change skills". The effect is the same, though. So no, it does not assume just that, and if that's what your suggestion is based on, I can prove it wrong effortlessly. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:10:00 - [121] Originally by: Gsptlsnz CCP 1: "we want you to log in" Why not CCP 2: "we want you to pay a monthly fee, to participate any way you like" There's no objective logic behind the first one. Character sales for ISK are legal and encouraged, so it isn't that. What is it then? Do EvE players 'like* CCP telling them how to play their game? RP? Democracy? - maybe we should have a player vote on removing highSec (Or lowSec) from the game? There has to be some reason CCP prefers (1) over (2). This is one of the good replies in this thread. Why on earth CCP wants us to PLAY game when we already PAY the game. It's MY game style to farm skills because otherwise I find EVE rather boring game. EVE is merely for a long lost PvP experience you can get online but other games are there for PvE needs. So, give us 72h queue and I can be happy .. even 48h would do it! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:23:00 - [122] If the problem is that people will play EvE less because there are longer skill queues... is the problem really the skill queues? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Soban Kharad Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.10.30 08:56:00 - [123] Originally by: Pellegro While I undersatnd the logic, its totally faulty. Anyone who is only interested in changing skills jumps on for 10 seconds, changes skills and logs. Anyone who wants to play, does so. Here's a situation. You're going to play a game, some FPS you bought last week and are having fun with. Or maybe you're reading a book. Or chatting with people online. You get the idea. Suddenly, EVEmon or Capsuleer or your perfect memory reminds you that you have a skill about to finish, and nothing queued up after. Grumbling at interrupting activity X, you log in to change the skill to avoid wasted time because, hey, you still sub to this game for a reason. Suddenly, something pops up on your screen. Maybe it's an EVEmail from an old friend of yours who wants to join your corp. Or it's a new mining op that's happening 15 minutes from now, or a gang roam, or you find all your buy orders have sold out and you're sitting on a fat pile of ISK that needs to be reinvested. So, what do you do? You delay activity X for a little while longer while you attend the mining op, or go on that roam, or tend to your market orders. In other words, you provide content in the game for other players. You may not INTEND to play when you log in, but if you're going to tell me with a straight face that you've never logged in intending to switch out a skill and got sucked into something else, even if it was just chatting in corp or local for a few minutes...I'd call that bald-faced lie. If activity X is something that can't be interrupted, like work, going out, or a vacation, guess what? You can set up to 24 hours of small skills and STILL set a long skill to train so that while you're away, you won't lose training time! Fancy that. I mean, yes, you are out of luck if you set a 5 day skill to train and suddenly find yourself in a Siberian gulag with a 30 day sentence. But considering that most long-term absences from an internet capable computer are planned and not spontaneous, this is not going to be an issue for most players. In short: if logging into an online game once every 1-30 days (depending on how long the last skill training time is) is too much for you to handle, maybe you should ask yourself why you're paying 15 bucks a month for it in the first place.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 09:38:00 - [124] Originally by: Kuolematon Why on earth CCP wants us to PLAY game when we already PAY the game. Because your being in the game provides my game content. You know: player-driven MMO and all that. Quote: So, give us 72h queue and I can be happy .. even 48h would do it! What could you do with that length queue that you can't already do with the 24h one? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.30 10:09:00 - [125] Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. /Thread However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
N Ano Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.30 10:15:00 - [126] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. /Thread I whole heartedly agree with this. the 24 hour skill queue is there for two reasons. firstly because of the above stated reason. Second, I have found it usefull to stack up a bunch of skills to train to lvl 1 and then lvl 2 ect for the next 24 hours and not have to worry about them whilst I do my missions or what have you. Also, I hate your sig so much! Originally by: Blane Xero SoonÖ. Shortly AfterÖ Iceland Conquers the WorldÖ
159Pinky Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.10.30 11:05:00 - [127] To OP and his fellow "skill training queue is too short" believers: stop the whining. All has been explained, if you refuse to accept the explenation than that's your problem. And think of this: now you ask for a queue of 72 hours, in 4 months some other guy will ask for a week cause he's gotten used to 3 days and feels it is too short and in 1 year we'll have ppl asking for queues of 1 month. CCP needed to set a limit, they choose for 24 hours: deal with it.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.30 11:26:00 - [128] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 30/10/2009 11:31:46 There is no need to set a time limit on skill queues. The only arguments to come close to defending the current situation are the ones which suggest that players will play more and subscribe longer if they are forced to log on at least once every day or so. This wouldn't affect me in the least, so it's not so easy for me to accept this argument. But at least it makes sense to argue that way. NB: Tippia's quote (next post) isn't faked - it was accurate at the time it was made. We updated simltaneusly.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 11:28:00 - [129] Originally by: Gsptlsnz There is no objective requirement to set a limit on skill queues. It's nice how you constantly shift your statement to look like you're having a consistent line of argument… That said: so what? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dhart	Posted - 2009.10.30 12:12:00 - [130] Im not all that happy with the limit, but it had to be done. Maybe as a charachter ages, code a way to buy a bigger que, Or if CCP is worried about lack of play, make que size expandable by playing the game.

Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:35:00 - [131] I just want to know why cant I just train skills as I already pay for those SP's gained. CCP forced me PLAY and PAY! Oh and that one who said I provide content by playing .. I do provide a lot of content without playing too ;) "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:41:00 - [132] Edited by: Blane Xero on 30/10/2009 13:41:34 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
The Geoman Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:56:00 - [133] Originally by: Anubis Xian If the problem is that people will play EvE less because there are longer skill queues... is the problem really the skill queues? This was my first thought as I began to read this thread. In fact, I find it a bit unfortunate that CCP assumes that the game is so unappealing, that people will log in less often if the skill queue is made longer. Me, I've probably played more because of the skill queue, because the handling of skills is far less tedious than it used to be. I'd still like to see it made longer, though.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:27:00 - [134] I play EVE online every day. I suspect most people do. 24h queue means that I can set up enough the skills for the next time I'm playing again. Simples. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:48:00 - [135] Originally by: Kuolematon I just want to know why cant I just train skills as I already pay for those SP's gained. CCP forced me PLAY and PAY! Oh and that one who said I provide content by playing .. I do provide a lot of content without playing too ;) Um, which content wold that be? If you're referring to your meager contribution via subscriptions, please, don't let us keep you! I am quite sure CCP will survive without you. and to your first argument, actually what you pay for is the ability to log in and use the game as CCP provides it, no more, no less. You're paying for the priviledge to not have your password rejected when you type it in. Everything else is gravy. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Yarik Mendel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:28:00 - [136] The pilots online number would drop otherwise.
159Pinky Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:30:00 - [137] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 30/10/2009 11:31:46 There is no need to set a time limit on skill queues. CCP figured a limit was needed. But you're right, CCP does nothing right. So just give an infinite limit. Or not...
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:54:00 - [138] Originally by: Soban Kharad Suddenly, something pops up on your screen. Maybe it's an EVEmail from an old friend of yours who wants to join your corp. Or it's a new mining op that's happening 15 minutes from now, or a gang roam, or you find all your buy orders have sold out and you're sitting on a fat pile of ISK that needs to be reinvested. So, what do you do? You delay activity X for a little while longer while you attend the mining op, or go on that roam, or tend to your market orders. In other words, you provide content in the game for other players. F-Em! My only friends in EVE are psychos IRL whom I'd only trust with a 100km pole (or however far their targeting range is) and I'll delete the emails. I've told them outright... "I'm going on a few weeks hiatus to skill grind. Don't bother me if you see me log on!"
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:57:00 - [139] Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Soban Kharad Suddenly, something pops up on your screen. Maybe it's an EVEmail from an old friend of yours who wants to join your corp. Or it's a new mining op that's happening 15 minutes from now, or a gang roam, or you find all your buy orders have sold out and you're sitting on a fat pile of ISK that needs to be reinvested. So, what do you do? You delay activity X for a little while longer while you attend the mining op, or go on that roam, or tend to your market orders. In other words, you provide content in the game for other players. F-Em! My only friends in EVE are psychos IRL whom I'd only trust with a 100km pole (or however far their targeting range is) and I'll delete the emails. I've told them outright... "I'm going on a few weeks hiatus to skill grind. Don't bother me if you see me log on!" I smell troll here. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.10.30 17:15:00 - [140] Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... Yup. It's limited because they want their subscribers to feel a need to log on from time to time, to who knows, actually get playing some? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As

amdul kabar	Posted - 2009.10.30 18:30:00 - [141] Personally I can see a situation where someone may not be able to log on for the whole day, and I wouldn't mind if the queue limit is 2 or 3 days, but 24 hours isn't so bad.
fatherted1989 Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.10.30 18:41:00 - [142] Originally by: fatherted1989 lol @ people whining, because staying up to absurd hours to tack that last little skill on was sooooo fun...
The AEther Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2009.10.30 19:08:00 - [143] Edited by: The AEther on 30/10/2009 19:08:20 Originally by: Soban Kharad You may not INTEND to play when you log in, but if you're going to tell me with a straight face that you've never logged in intending to switch out a skill and got sucked into something else, even if it was just chatting in corp or local for a few minutes...I'd call that bald-faced lie. ^ The most plausible reason CCP introduced a 24-hour limit on the skill queue, so that you would log in and then get sucked into playing the game. I always thought this was pretty obvious.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.30 21:38:00 - [144] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Pellegro While I undersatnd the logic, its totally faulty. Anyone who is only interested in changing skills jumps on for 10 seconds, changes skills and logs. Anyone who wants to play, does so. àwhich assumes a strict dichotomy between the two, and that's not just the case. You attribute a purposefulness to everyone's actions and decisions that sounds suspiciously ideal-type-like and unrealistic. Quote: it assumes people will play just b/c they have to login to change a skill. I'd suggest that people's decision to play or not ahs ZERO to do with that. Depends how you mean. Yes, their decision to play has nothing to do with their changing skills, as such ù it has to do with what they discovered when logging on with the intention to "just change skills". The effect is the same, though. So no, it does not assume just that, and if that's what your suggestion is based on, I can prove it wrong effortlessly. Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. Not once. With a combined skillpoint total between two characters of ~79 million and 349 skills between them. Not once. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.30 21:45:00 - [145] Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. No, you're looking at it idealistically. In an idealistic world everyone is honest, there's no spam, nothing needs nerfed, all is balanced, and nothing needs boosted. In the real world players will do anything they please as long as they can get away with it and will use your program, system, game, or environment however they want. Doing X to try to force them to Y is a non-sequitor. If you want them to do Y, you provide positive motivation for it, you don't try and force it, you cannot force players to play a game, you can only make them want to. Making them log in against their will to avoid missing training time does not accomplish this. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 21:48:00 - [146] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. I'd say you're an anomaly then. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Jorden Ishonen	Posted - 2009.10.30 22:10:00 - [147] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. If you're that determined not to play the game, why not unsub? Why are you paying money? Unless you're just skilling up a character to sell. If that's the case, I hope CCP bans your account and you lose all the money you spent skilling it up.
Talon Aidian Interstella Fleet	Posted - 2009.10.31 14:21:00 - [148] I say, if people don't like the queue system, remove it altogether. EVE played for years without it, and can do so again. It's a nice -convenience- that the Devs provided to make the game easier for those who are fanatic about the game but not dedicated enough to bother to log in to change their skills, but not a necessity at all. EVE is engineered to be a harsh place. Why anyone complains when the Devs give them something absolutely non-critical that makes their gameplay a little easier is beyond me. If you are so bothered by this issue, you will never survive in EVE, as you have no perspective of the game you are playing.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.31 15:41:00 - [149] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. No, you're looking at it idealistically. In an idealistic world everyone is honest, there's no spam, nothing needs nerfed, all is balanced, and nothing needs boosted. In the real world players will do anything they please as long as they can get away with it and will use your program, system, game, or environment however they want. Doing X to try to force them to Y is a non-sequitor. If you want them to do Y, you provide positive motivation for it, you don't try and force it, you cannot force players to play a game, you can only make them want to. Making them log in against their will to avoid missing training time does not accomplish this. I'm not sure why you quoted me at the beginning of this post since your "response" doesn't address what I said at all. I didn't suggest or even mention "forcing" anyone to do anything directly or indirectly. I explained the intended purpose of the queue and how it serves its intended purpose perfectly. You, however, want the queue to serve a new purpose, one which benefits you (and your weird non-play playstyle) personally. Short answer is: No. Long answer is: CCP does not (and should not) set policy based upon the whims and wishes of a very small minority of fringe players. And, just fyi, non sequitur means "does not follow". Logically this occurs when a conclusion does not follow from the premise. I'm not sure what your objection is with "Doing X to try to force them to Y" (since that's ubiquitous in society) but whatever it is it's nothing to do with non sequitur.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.10.31 16:21:00 - [150] Originally by: Jorden Ishonen Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. If you're that determined not to play the game, why not unsub? Why are you paying money? Unless you're just skilling up a character to sell. If that's the case, I hope CCP bans your account and you lose all the money you spent skilling it up. Did it ever ocurr to you that maybe he has other things to do that keep him from playing now? (like you know the wife, children, job - all the things you'll never have?) Maybe though he wants to keep his chars training for the moment he does have the time to play? Oh, what a scumbag! Lets burn him at the stakes... As for your other remark: please learn economics 101, mmmkay? Char trading is 100% eula conform as long as its done the right way and I bet CCP likes 15Ç a month so why in hell would they suspend his account? Just because you touch yourself at night? Not likely... -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.

Domoso	Posted - 2009.10.31 16:59:00 - [151] Edited by: Domoso on 31/10/2009 17:08:18 Edited by: Domoso on 31/10/2009 17:05:37 Skill farming as reason for limitations is a BS reason for a 24hrs queue limit. If I know I'm going to be away from an internet connection or just not using an internet connection while say, going on a week long holiday, I'd like to be able to queue up some skills while it's going to be impossible or undesirable for me to access my Eve account. I'm paying for it. And yet I'm denied that simple ability. Besides, any good character farmer has long since coded a script to meet that limitation anyway. CCP is just penalizing it's customers to prevent what is already happening. With that kind of logic we should all be limited to 1mil isk/day to prevent isk farmer.....a far more prevalent issue. And as a benefit it would deter so many accounts from being hacked AND limit the amount of man power that CCP has to commit to rectifying hack account issues. It's a win-win.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:14:00 - [152] Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 31/10/2009 17:18:02 Originally by: Myra2007 Did it ever ocurr to you that maybe he has other things to do that keep him from playing now? (like you know the wife, children, job - all the things you'll never have?) Did it ever "ocurr" to you that those of us with families and jobs still manage to plan our gaming around those considerations and come up with the ninety seconds required to log in and change skills? In fact many of us managed to do it without any queue at all. Oh, and while you were disparaging everyone who disagrees with you you forgot to say anything about us living in our mother's basement, so that's an automatic -1 troll points. Try harder next time, OK? Originally by: Domoso Besides, I'm pretending that any good character farmer has long since coded a script to meet that limitation anyway. CCP is just penalizing it's customers to prevent what is already happening in my imagination. Fixed that for you.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:14:00 - [153] Originally by: Domoso If I know I'm going to be away from an internet connection or just not using an internet connection while say, going on a week long holiday, I'd like to be able to queue up some skills while it's going to be impossible or undesirable for me to access my Eve account. You already can. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:24:00 - [154] Originally by: Domoso Besides, any good character farmer has long since coded a script to meet that limitation anyway. CCP is just penalizing it's customers to prevent what is already happening. If I were CCP I'd start seriously reviewing your accounts for suspicious activity. You sound a little too sure about yourself in that claim. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:26:00 - [155] I still have yet to see a legitimate explanation of how skill farming will hurt the game in anyway. People still need to make money to buy the skill books, which often means they also need to make money to buy better ships and mods. That is what keeps ""inactive" people playing, along with prospect of pvp, exploration, etc, later on. Logging in just to change a skill, in and of itself, isn't going to prompt anyone to have more interaction than they already have with other players. The reason most new players get bored is because they aren't aware of other things to do besides mission grinding solo. This has nothing to do with the skill queue.
Domoso	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:43:00 - [156] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Domoso Besides, any good character farmer has long since coded a script to meet that limitation anyway. CCP is just penalizing it's customers to prevent what is already happening. If I were CCP I'd start seriously reviewing your accounts for suspicious activity. You sound a little too sure about yourself in that claim. Yes, CCP will see that I've had one account for two years of which I've played 6 months total all from the same ISP. Very suspicious indeed. Yet, in no way does it negate the fact that scripting is fairly easy to learn. Anyone serious about abusing the game will find it easy to do. But, no, lets penalize the good players in the guise of utterly futile prevention. Because, prevention is not about stopping those determined to abuse the game, it's about stopping the casual player from possibly doing what CCP fears they might do. There are not legitimate reasons to limit paying accounts in this manner. None.
Jarik Utoni Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:46:00 - [157] i love the 24 hours. i can add a new 6 day skill when my old 6 day skill is under it's last 24 hours, the system is perfect! ---- d(^.^)b
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.31 20:04:00 - [158] Like a lot of other things in EvE, the 24-hour Skill Queues work a lot better for high-SP players than they do for rookies. I suspect most of these irrational arguments for keeping 24-hour queues are just disguised hate for rookies: "we had it tough, and so should you".
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.31 20:09:00 - [159] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Like a lot of other things in EvE, the 24-hour Skill Queues work a lot better for high-SP players than they do for rookies. Again: how so? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Hecate Shaw Caldari United Freemerchants Society	Posted - 2009.10.31 20:35:00 - [160] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Like a lot of other things in EvE, the 24-hour Skill Queues work a lot better for high-SP players than they do for rookies. I suspect most of these irrational arguments for keeping 24-hour queues are just disguised hate for rookies: "we had it tough, and so should you". Yeah, I've trained up a new alt since the Queue came out, and I absolutely could feel the hatred rolling off of the interface as I set a full 24 hrs of 8-30 minute skills to train while I went to bed and worked the next day. They must really despise rookies, to give them the perfect tool for managing all of those short skills without having to log in constantly! Add to it the new training bonus in place of a load of predetermined skills you may never use, and CCP's loathing of rookies is just too obvious to be denied! Stercus accidit

knowonecanknow hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.10.31 20:45:00 - [161] I don't believe you have been playing for 3 years. Cause if you did you would know what its like not to have a queue at all. Be lucky that you even have one. Back when there wasn't one it was way more of a pain in the ass. If something comes up where you can't log on for 3 days to train a new skill pick a longer skill to train.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:04:00 - [162] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 31/10/2009 22:06:08 @ Hecate Shaw This "we had it tough, so should you" attitude is from players, not CCP. It seems as though CCP genuinely want new players, but they don't want them enough to adjust those aspects of the game which don't work well during the first few months of play. Funnily enough. one of those things is the Training Bonus and the "Learning" Skills, which don't combine well.
tezteztez	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:09:00 - [163] Originally by: knowonecanknow I don't believe you have been playing for 3 years. Cause if you did you would know what its like not to have a queue at all. Be lucky that you even have one. Back when there wasn't one it was way more of a pain in the ass. If something comes up where you can't log on for 3 days to train a new skill pick a longer skill to train. typical ccp-brainwashed reply. hey it doesnt mean that if you didnt have the ability to queue before then i should be content/thankful with a halfassed fix we have now. the problem with ccp, its developers and its old subscribers is that theyre content with obsolete game mechanics. people just stick out to this game due to the way skills are trained, aka subscribe to the game and maybe enjoy the game after a year of getting the really good skills. its not because of the sandbox experience, the pvp nor its content.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:25:00 - [164] Originally by: Gsptlsnz It seems as though CCP genuinely want new players, but they don't want them enough to adjust those aspects of the game which don't work well during the first few months of play. Funnily enough. one of those things is the Training Bonus and the "Learning" Skills, which don't combine well. And you still fail to explain how the queue hits new players more than old ones… In addition, while you'll find that CCP are the first to admit that the learning skills were a terrible idea, you'll also find that the training bonus means you can get them out of the way faster than ever before, and that it makes the situation far better for them than before in just about every way. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:36:00 - [165] Its strange this post is going on for pages when so many other game elements need desperate attention yet they are largely ignored.
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:44:00 - [166] Originally by: Zartanic Its strange this post is going on for pages when so many other game elements need desperate attention yet they are largely ignored. Yeah I agree. There is really no real need to add more time to it, and it would just be a waste of the devs time. I just wanted to argue, since I don't see how making longer would actually have any negative impact whatsoever, now that ghost training is gone.
Emil Erlenmeyer	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:47:00 - [167] I started playing long before the skill queue ever existed. Reactivated my accounts a while ago and I discovered the queue option; but I have to say that any longer queue than this would only be for the worse. I don't play much as it is, still due to limited time to actually play; which was the reason I stopped playing in the first place. One of the main reasons I log in to the game it to change skill, and every time I do I spend a little time playing. If the skill queue was any longer I would log in less and hence play less, which in turn eventually would lead me to cancel my accounts again sooner. Right now I hope I have more time to play soon, so I'm not planning on cancelling them. CCP's view on this is and has always been quite clear. So the skill queue will most likely stay as is. Originally by: Foodpimp They use a coffee filter, that explains everything you need to know really
Hecate Shaw Caldari United Freemerchants Society	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:48:00 - [168] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 31/10/2009 22:10:11 @ Hecate Shaw This "we had it tough, so should you" attitude is from players, not CCP. I assumed this would be obvious from the text you quoted. Or you can read the post between this one and yours, which makes the poiint rather well /lol. It seems as though CCP genuinely want new players, but they don't want them enough to adjust those aspects of the game which don't work well during the first few months of play. Funnily enough. one of those things is the Training Bonus and the "Learning" Skills, which don't combine well. Guess you really don't get sarcasm, then. I'd REALLY like to know how you figure the training bonus and the queue "don't work well" for rookies. That is a big part of where my sarcasm was aimed, since it seems highly counter-intuitive. As for the training bonus and learning skills not working well together...it depends on what you mean by "don't combine well". Though the 1.6 mil limit perhaps doesn't cover all learning skills to 5, I don't think it really should. The point is to get you a good jump-start on the path you choose; if you choose the generalist path by going max learning first thing, it will get you a good start. If you prefer to start on some learning and some other skills, it does well for that too. What's the problem. Stercus accidit
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:53:00 - [169] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Did it ever "ocurr" to you that those of us with families and jobs still manage to plan our gaming around those considerations and come up with the ninety seconds required to log in and change skills? In fact many of us managed to do it without any queue at all. Sure, so what? I did not make any conflicting statement iirc. Originally by: Catherine Frasier Oh, and while you were disparaging everyone who disagrees with you you forgot to say anything about us living in our mother's basement, so that's an automatic -1 troll points. Try harder next time, OK? The only one person I disparaged is the one I replied to. Thats because he was pretentious enough to assume that any one person that just logs in to change skills is so "dedicated to not playing" that he should either quit or get his account suspended by ccp. I just introduced him to the concept that a lot of those people (me included) aren't "dedicated to not playing" but rather can't. If you happen to agree with the statement to which I replied (I quoted it for a reason btw) though then yes I think you're ignorant too. As for troll points you get -1 point for making fun of my english. So we're even. Next time just read my post please, will you? -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.31 22:56:00 - [170] @ Tippia I assumed this would be obvious, and could see no purpose to your challenge. The frequency with which you must change your skill queue is related to the length of the skills you train. You feel the effect of the constrained queue length most when you're juggling 12- to 24-hour skills. If you queue up a 24-day skill, the length of the queue might as well be 24 days rather than 24 hours. The training speed bonus is similarly unfriendly. A rookie who's fortunate enough to hear about the Learning skills has to make an ugly choice: Learning Skills for long-term efficiency, but little progression for the first month or so; vs immediate gratification but being significantly worse off SP-wise in the medium term. The decision is easy for a high-SP player developing an alt. It's difficut for a brand-new player. Not least because many high-SP players find it entertaining to give idiotic advicew to rookies. left unquantified as a trap

Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.31 23:09:00 - [171] Originally by: Gsptlsnz The frequency with which you must change your skill queue is related to the length of the skills you train. You feel the effect of the constrained queue length most when you're juggling 12- to 24-hour skills. You also benefit most from the queue when you have tons of short skills that you need to get done — you know, like when you're a new character. Oh, and if you're juggling 12–24h-skills, it means you can always slap in a 2+–5-day skill at the end and make the most of your away-time that way. Quote: The training speed bonus is similarly unfriendly. A rookie who's fortunate enough to hear about the Learning skills has to make an ugly choice: Learning Skills for long-term efficiency, but little progression** for the first month or so; vs immediate gratification but being significantly worse off SP-wise in the medium term. …and as it happens, this has always been a problem and isn't in any way related to the speed bonus or the queue — it's a problem with the learning skills. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Wiley Peterson	Posted - 2009.10.31 23:19:00 - [172] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Gsptlsnz In addition, while you'll find that CCP are the first to admit that the learning skills were a terrible idea, Do you have a link to anyone at CCP admitting this? You'd think if they recognized this, they would just start everyone off with all learnings at 5.
Hecate Shaw Caldari United Freemerchants Society	Posted - 2009.10.31 23:23:00 - [173] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 31/10/2009 23:01:34 @ Tippia I assumed this would be obvious, and could see no purpose to your earlier challenge. The frequency with which you must change your skill queue is related to the length of the skills you train. You feel the effect of the constrained queue length most when you're juggling 12- to 24-hour skills. If you queue up a 24-day skill, the length of the queue might as well be 24 days rather than 24 hours. The training speed bonus is similarly unfriendly. A rookie who's fortunate enough to hear about the Learning skills has to make an ugly choice: Learning Skills for long-term efficiency, but little progression for the first month or so; vs immediate gratification but being significantly worse off SP-wise in the medium term. The decision is easy for a high-SP player developing an alt. It's difficut for a brand-new player. Not least because many high-SP players find it entertaining to give idiotic advice to rookies. @ Hecate Shaw - All Learning Skills to 5 is approx 5 million SP. And FWIW it's an axiom that sarcasm doesn't work well in writing, and not at all in a forum. When i see it used I assume the writer is deliberately trying to derail the thread. left unquantified as a trap Ah, I see now...not only do you take a bizarre spin on sarcasm, but you expect the skill queue and training bonus to solve problems they were never meant to, and that existed long before they existed. I started my mains long before the skill queue, and trained an alt recently - the skill queue and training bonus DID solve the problems they were meant to (the '3 a.m. skill-change alarm' and 'bizarre starting skills I'll never use', respectively) in my opinion. The fact that you want them to solve problems unrelated to their purpose, and that you choose to turn a very blind eye to the benefits to new characters, is not CCP's problem. Stercus accidit
BeanBagKing The Keepers of JewGold Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.10.31 23:50:00 - [174] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Kuolematon Why can't I have skill queue reaching as far as 96h or even beyond? Even 72h would be nice. Explain to me why it's limited to 24h and DON'T give me some lazy ass explanation about "character farming" or "not playing game" - I have done skill training for last 3 years and playing this game not very actively. so thats not the real reason for 24h queue. You might think it's a crap excuse, the majority of other people don't. Its a valid concern to CCP that people will sit AFK training and do nothing in Eve. The same concern is probably why they disabled ghost training as well. I'm all for it, people should log in and play, not sit AFK constantly skillpoint farming. Making the process automated would just further the problem. To be honest, you're one of a tiny minority whining and bleating about this when you should be happy that you even have a 24 hour queue. ^^ just wanted to agree.
Michwich	Posted - 2009.11.01 00:37:00 - [175] Edited by: Michwich on 01/11/2009 00:39:04 The only logical reason I can see for a developer to sacrifice user convenience is for profit. That or sheer stupidity. Both apply hear beacause I think its stupid of CCP to think they can profit more by making you log in every once in a while to change skills, or hope that you forget and lose training time, therefore in the end make you sub longer to and pay more to get the same skills. This is the approach im affriad CCP is taking which does not agree with reality as you only need to check the positive results a training queue got in the first place, so a training que that extends more than a day and even onto forever would only be recieved well by the users. So whats stopping CCP from pleasing it customers? Greed or Incompetence?
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.01 00:41:00 - [176] Originally by: Michwich The only logical reason I can see for a developer to sacrifice user convenience is for profit. That or sheer stupidity. Then you should read the thread, since it provides the logics and reasons behind their decision. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kara Mitsui The New Era Huzzah Federation	Posted - 2009.11.01 01:56:00 - [177] Originally by: Zartanic Its strange this post is going on for pages when so many other game elements need desperate attention yet they are largely ignored. Ha ha, what do you think CCP is paying any attention to this joke of a thread? Do you think CCP decides what to work on based on what compliants get the most replies? Why on earth do you think that the amount of people laughing at this mronic request is going to have any influence of CCP's plans for game improvements? I can assure you, without any doubt at all, that CCP is not even considering anything contained in this discussion. The OP has it all backwards, as others mentioned right from page one. CCP would prefer that there was no queue at all, for whatever reasons they have. There's no point in trying to change their minds, and we don't really know what their reasons are.... but after 6 years of Eve one thing is certain: CCP would perfer to have no ability to queue skills. However, after 5 years of complaints, they decided to implement a queue to help cover the only two legitimate concerns: - When you are a noob, you have a TON of skills to train that are just a few minutes. This means logging into the game so often during a single day that it becomes impossible. Yes, you can select longer skills for times when you know you can't log in for 8 hours or more, but that's a compromise and sub-optimal for the player's training plan. - Sometimes, skills will come out of training during DT, or during some unexpected downtime (if a patch takes 12 hours to implement instead of two, for example). Yes, players used to just get in the habit of setting a long skill before DT, then changing back afterward, but again it was not optimal and many people forgot. So, to appease players who thought these were important problems, CCP implemented a 24-hour queue. It's actually much better than that, because you can tack a multi-day skill on in the last minute of the 24 hours period. If you need to you can cover a month or more of time away from the game, as long as the skill you were training in the last minute of the first day is long enough. In terms of addressing the two issues I mentioned, a 24-hour queue is sufficient. It lets noobs traing all the 30-minute skills they want to, while still having to log in just once per day. It also lets us handle long downtimes without interrupting our normal training plan. This won't change. CCP would rather not have any queue at all, but they have recognised two reasonable situations where a queue is needed, and the 24-hour queue addresses both of those perfectly. There is no reasonable situation where a longer queue is needed. So why do CCP prefer not to have a queue at all? People always talk about character-farming, and the desire to get people to play the game instead of just setting long skill plans and coming back in a month. These are mostly valid issues, so CCP is being reasonable IMHO in their policy. But the truth is, we don't know if those are the reasons CCP doesn't want a queue. There may be other reasons they won't tell us. It doesn't matter either way. They have their reasons, and that's that. After a full five years of whining, they eventually addressed the only two legitimate issues people had. The chances of a longer queue being implemented are exactly ZERO. What sort of moron asks CCP for their reasons, and in the same post refuses to believe their reasons, which he already knows. "Please God, tell me why I can't grow wings and fly like a bird? Don't give me that crap about physics and body-weight and stamina, either, I'm not interested in that." How deluded can a person be?
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.01 02:31:00 - [178] Edited by: Zartanic on 01/11/2009 02:32:27 CCP data mines everything and if they said for years that any queue at all would affect the probability of someone playing then I won't argue with it. It took a lot of persuading to get them to agree to any queue at all. They must have a good reason from data we simply do not have. The fact that reason does not apply to everyone or someone does not agree with the reason is completely irrelevant. CCP sees the game as a whole when looking at a potential change that affects all players and more importantly affects CCP's income. Like all game mechanics it suits some more than others. So for me its a non issue, Id much rather the damn UI was overhauled:) At least that's something that would also affect us all and would almost certainly increase revenue for CCP so its a winnable argument. I can see a lot more players leaving or avoiding the game over this than having to put on a long skill now and again.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.11.01 02:40:00 - [179] I maintain my position that Eve is flawed on a fundamental level if extending the queue timer is even remotely a concern. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Tragir	Posted - 2009.11.01 04:20:00 - [180] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/10/2009 10:10:57 CCP 1: "we want you to log in" Why not CCP 2: "we want you to pay a monthly fee, to participate any way you like" There's no objective logic behind the first one. Character sales for ISK are legal and encouraged, so it isn't that. What is it then? Do EvE players 'like* CCP telling them how to play their game? RP? Democracy? - maybe we should have a player vote on removing highSec (Or lowSec) from the game? There has to be some reason CCP prefers (1) over (2). i was going to type up a post ... but quoting this one saves me time. I agree with the above, although i enjoy the skill queue and dont really care too much to see it increased. I dont understand why it isnt 48 or 72 hours... or well even an unlimited amount of time.

Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.11.01 04:49:00 - [181] Originally by: Kara Mitsui What sort of moron asks CCP for their reasons, and in the same post refuses to believe their reasons, which he already knows. "Please God, tell me why I can't grow wings and fly like a bird? Don't give me that crap about physics and body-weight and stamina, either, I'm not interested in that." How deluded can a person be? As Elbert Hubbard said "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.11.01 05:41:00 - [182] hmmm - a poster supports the idea of a longer (perhaps unlimited) Skill Queue, something which is obviously consistent with the laws of physics and on a nore mundane level, obviously possible for CCP to implement. Then we see a "strawman" argument - the original suggestion is compared to something whch is known to be inpossible, and the false comparison used to ridicule the poster. And now a comment about stupidity, quoted from someone intelligent. Who was the quote aimed at? This is an important question, because if you got it wrong, you'll find you inadvertently added an additional target.
159Pinky Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.11.01 09:48:00 - [183] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 01/11/2009 06:19:18 hmmm - a poster supports the idea of a longer (perhaps unlimited) Skill Queue, something which is obviously consistent with the laws of physics and, on a more mundane level, obviously possible for CCP to implement. So you wanna farm characters again. Won't happen, deal with it. And btw, which law of physics are you using for this statement?
Kumq uat Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.01 10:21:00 - [184] You need to learn the art of ship spinning www.eve-pirate.com original author Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.11.01 11:08:00 - [185] Originally by: Tragir I dont understand why it isnt 48 or 72 hours... or well even an unlimited amount of time. Because the day is only 24h long, so you don't need more. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.11.02 07:20:00 - [186] Last nite I logged on and saw that I havent had skill coming for last 3 days .. with better queue this could have been prevented. sigh Oh and 95% of times I log on, is to change skill . Other 5% is to smack finnish people and my corp slaves. Offtopic: Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again.Time Flux Detected You are going too f "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Dr Karsun Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:42:00 - [187] Originally by: Kuolematon Last nite I logged on and saw that I havent had skill coming for last 3 days .. with better queue this could have been prevented. sigh Oh and 95% of times I log on, is to change skill . Other 5% is to smack finnish people and my corp slaves. With the 24h que and skills that can be learned for a month or longer I'm surpsied anyone can have a 3 day gap in learning (except a situation when you don't have internet for a week). And stop spamming dude. Making custom signatures and banners - check my in-game bio for details!
Arimus Darkhart Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.11.02 08:48:00 - [188] What would be useful is an 'I am on vacation' type system where, without violating the EULA, someone can login and ONLY change skills. Would mean gaps where you are without internet access would be covered (yes, some of us like getting away from the internet when on holiday- removes the ability for work to email you half-assed questions). Also I'm going to be going away sometime next year for two months for work where while I'll have some network access doubt it will quiet stretch to EO. -- Users are like a virus - each causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally dies.


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