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CCP, please explain skill queue limit reason

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:10:00 - [121] Originally by: Gsptlsnz CCP 1: "we want you to log in" Why not CCP 2: "we want you to pay a monthly fee, to participate any way you like" There's no objective logic behind the first one. Character sales for ISK are legal and encouraged, so it isn't that. What is it then? Do EvE players 'like* CCP telling them how to play their game? RP? Democracy? - maybe we should have a player vote on removing highSec (Or lowSec) from the game? There has to be some reason CCP prefers (1) over (2). This is one of the good replies in this thread. Why on earth CCP wants us to PLAY game when we already PAY the game. It's MY game style to farm skills because otherwise I find EVE rather boring game. EVE is merely for a long lost PvP experience you can get online but other games are there for PvE needs. So, give us 72h queue and I can be happy .. even 48h would do it! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:23:00 - [122] If the problem is that people will play EvE less because there are longer skill queues... is the problem really the skill queues? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Soban Kharad Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.10.30 08:56:00 - [123] Originally by: Pellegro While I undersatnd the logic, its totally faulty. Anyone who is only interested in changing skills jumps on for 10 seconds, changes skills and logs. Anyone who wants to play, does so. Here's a situation. You're going to play a game, some FPS you bought last week and are having fun with. Or maybe you're reading a book. Or chatting with people online. You get the idea. Suddenly, EVEmon or Capsuleer or your perfect memory reminds you that you have a skill about to finish, and nothing queued up after. Grumbling at interrupting activity X, you log in to change the skill to avoid wasted time because, hey, you still sub to this game for a reason. Suddenly, something pops up on your screen. Maybe it's an EVEmail from an old friend of yours who wants to join your corp. Or it's a new mining op that's happening 15 minutes from now, or a gang roam, or you find all your buy orders have sold out and you're sitting on a fat pile of ISK that needs to be reinvested. So, what do you do? You delay activity X for a little while longer while you attend the mining op, or go on that roam, or tend to your market orders. In other words, you provide content in the game for other players. You may not INTEND to play when you log in, but if you're going to tell me with a straight face that you've never logged in intending to switch out a skill and got sucked into something else, even if it was just chatting in corp or local for a few minutes...I'd call that bald-faced lie. If activity X is something that can't be interrupted, like work, going out, or a vacation, guess what? You can set up to 24 hours of small skills and STILL set a long skill to train so that while you're away, you won't lose training time! Fancy that. I mean, yes, you are out of luck if you set a 5 day skill to train and suddenly find yourself in a Siberian gulag with a 30 day sentence. But considering that most long-term absences from an internet capable computer are planned and not spontaneous, this is not going to be an issue for most players. In short: if logging into an online game once every 1-30 days (depending on how long the last skill training time is) is too much for you to handle, maybe you should ask yourself why you're paying 15 bucks a month for it in the first place.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 09:38:00 - [124] Originally by: Kuolematon Why on earth CCP wants us to PLAY game when we already PAY the game. Because your being in the game provides my game content. You know: player-driven MMO and all that. Quote: So, give us 72h queue and I can be happy .. even 48h would do it! What could you do with that length queue that you can't already do with the 24h one? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.30 10:09:00 - [125] Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. /Thread However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
N Ano Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.30 10:15:00 - [126] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. /Thread I whole heartedly agree with this. the 24 hour skill queue is there for two reasons. firstly because of the above stated reason. Second, I have found it usefull to stack up a bunch of skills to train to lvl 1 and then lvl 2 ect for the next 24 hours and not have to worry about them whilst I do my missions or what have you. Also, I hate your sig so much! Originally by: Blane Xero SoonÖ. Shortly AfterÖ Iceland Conquers the WorldÖ
159Pinky Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.10.30 11:05:00 - [127] To OP and his fellow "skill training queue is too short" believers: stop the whining. All has been explained, if you refuse to accept the explenation than that's your problem. And think of this: now you ask for a queue of 72 hours, in 4 months some other guy will ask for a week cause he's gotten used to 3 days and feels it is too short and in 1 year we'll have ppl asking for queues of 1 month. CCP needed to set a limit, they choose for 24 hours: deal with it.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.30 11:26:00 - [128] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 30/10/2009 11:31:46 There is no need to set a time limit on skill queues. The only arguments to come close to defending the current situation are the ones which suggest that players will play more and subscribe longer if they are forced to log on at least once every day or so. This wouldn't affect me in the least, so it's not so easy for me to accept this argument. But at least it makes sense to argue that way. NB: Tippia's quote (next post) isn't faked - it was accurate at the time it was made. We updated simltaneusly.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 11:28:00 - [129] Originally by: Gsptlsnz There is no objective requirement to set a limit on skill queues. It's nice how you constantly shift your statement to look like you're having a consistent line of argument… That said: so what? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dhart	Posted - 2009.10.30 12:12:00 - [130] Im not all that happy with the limit, but it had to be done. Maybe as a charachter ages, code a way to buy a bigger que, Or if CCP is worried about lack of play, make que size expandable by playing the game.

Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:35:00 - [131] I just want to know why cant I just train skills as I already pay for those SP's gained. CCP forced me PLAY and PAY! Oh and that one who said I provide content by playing .. I do provide a lot of content without playing too ;) "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:41:00 - [132] Edited by: Blane Xero on 30/10/2009 13:41:34 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
The Geoman Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:56:00 - [133] Originally by: Anubis Xian If the problem is that people will play EvE less because there are longer skill queues... is the problem really the skill queues? This was my first thought as I began to read this thread. In fact, I find it a bit unfortunate that CCP assumes that the game is so unappealing, that people will log in less often if the skill queue is made longer. Me, I've probably played more because of the skill queue, because the handling of skills is far less tedious than it used to be. I'd still like to see it made longer, though.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:27:00 - [134] I play EVE online every day. I suspect most people do. 24h queue means that I can set up enough the skills for the next time I'm playing again. Simples. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:48:00 - [135] Originally by: Kuolematon I just want to know why cant I just train skills as I already pay for those SP's gained. CCP forced me PLAY and PAY! Oh and that one who said I provide content by playing .. I do provide a lot of content without playing too ;) Um, which content wold that be? If you're referring to your meager contribution via subscriptions, please, don't let us keep you! I am quite sure CCP will survive without you. and to your first argument, actually what you pay for is the ability to log in and use the game as CCP provides it, no more, no less. You're paying for the priviledge to not have your password rejected when you type it in. Everything else is gravy. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Yarik Mendel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:28:00 - [136] The pilots online number would drop otherwise.
159Pinky Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:30:00 - [137] Originally by: Gsptlsnz Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 30/10/2009 11:31:46 There is no need to set a time limit on skill queues. CCP figured a limit was needed. But you're right, CCP does nothing right. So just give an infinite limit. Or not...
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:54:00 - [138] Originally by: Soban Kharad Suddenly, something pops up on your screen. Maybe it's an EVEmail from an old friend of yours who wants to join your corp. Or it's a new mining op that's happening 15 minutes from now, or a gang roam, or you find all your buy orders have sold out and you're sitting on a fat pile of ISK that needs to be reinvested. So, what do you do? You delay activity X for a little while longer while you attend the mining op, or go on that roam, or tend to your market orders. In other words, you provide content in the game for other players. F-Em! My only friends in EVE are psychos IRL whom I'd only trust with a 100km pole (or however far their targeting range is) and I'll delete the emails. I've told them outright... "I'm going on a few weeks hiatus to skill grind. Don't bother me if you see me log on!"
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.30 16:57:00 - [139] Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Soban Kharad Suddenly, something pops up on your screen. Maybe it's an EVEmail from an old friend of yours who wants to join your corp. Or it's a new mining op that's happening 15 minutes from now, or a gang roam, or you find all your buy orders have sold out and you're sitting on a fat pile of ISK that needs to be reinvested. So, what do you do? You delay activity X for a little while longer while you attend the mining op, or go on that roam, or tend to your market orders. In other words, you provide content in the game for other players. F-Em! My only friends in EVE are psychos IRL whom I'd only trust with a 100km pole (or however far their targeting range is) and I'll delete the emails. I've told them outright... "I'm going on a few weeks hiatus to skill grind. Don't bother me if you see me log on!" I smell troll here. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.10.30 17:15:00 - [140] Originally by: Rebecca Rhineheart Give em an inch,... Yup. It's limited because they want their subscribers to feel a need to log on from time to time, to who knows, actually get playing some? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As

amdul kabar	Posted - 2009.10.30 18:30:00 - [141] Personally I can see a situation where someone may not be able to log on for the whole day, and I wouldn't mind if the queue limit is 2 or 3 days, but 24 hours isn't so bad.
fatherted1989 Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.10.30 18:41:00 - [142] Originally by: fatherted1989 lol @ people whining, because staying up to absurd hours to tack that last little skill on was sooooo fun...
The AEther Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2009.10.30 19:08:00 - [143] Edited by: The AEther on 30/10/2009 19:08:20 Originally by: Soban Kharad You may not INTEND to play when you log in, but if you're going to tell me with a straight face that you've never logged in intending to switch out a skill and got sucked into something else, even if it was just chatting in corp or local for a few minutes...I'd call that bald-faced lie. ^ The most plausible reason CCP introduced a 24-hour limit on the skill queue, so that you would log in and then get sucked into playing the game. I always thought this was pretty obvious.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.30 21:38:00 - [144] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Pellegro While I undersatnd the logic, its totally faulty. Anyone who is only interested in changing skills jumps on for 10 seconds, changes skills and logs. Anyone who wants to play, does so. àwhich assumes a strict dichotomy between the two, and that's not just the case. You attribute a purposefulness to everyone's actions and decisions that sounds suspiciously ideal-type-like and unrealistic. Quote: it assumes people will play just b/c they have to login to change a skill. I'd suggest that people's decision to play or not ahs ZERO to do with that. Depends how you mean. Yes, their decision to play has nothing to do with their changing skills, as such ù it has to do with what they discovered when logging on with the intention to "just change skills". The effect is the same, though. So no, it does not assume just that, and if that's what your suggestion is based on, I can prove it wrong effortlessly. Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. Not once. With a combined skillpoint total between two characters of ~79 million and 349 skills between them. Not once. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.10.30 21:45:00 - [145] Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. No, you're looking at it idealistically. In an idealistic world everyone is honest, there's no spam, nothing needs nerfed, all is balanced, and nothing needs boosted. In the real world players will do anything they please as long as they can get away with it and will use your program, system, game, or environment however they want. Doing X to try to force them to Y is a non-sequitor. If you want them to do Y, you provide positive motivation for it, you don't try and force it, you cannot force players to play a game, you can only make them want to. Making them log in against their will to avoid missing training time does not accomplish this. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.10.30 21:48:00 - [146] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. I'd say you're an anomaly then. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Jorden Ishonen	Posted - 2009.10.30 22:10:00 - [147] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. If you're that determined not to play the game, why not unsub? Why are you paying money? Unless you're just skilling up a character to sell. If that's the case, I hope CCP bans your account and you lose all the money you spent skilling it up.
Talon Aidian Interstella Fleet	Posted - 2009.10.31 14:21:00 - [148] I say, if people don't like the queue system, remove it altogether. EVE played for years without it, and can do so again. It's a nice -convenience- that the Devs provided to make the game easier for those who are fanatic about the game but not dedicated enough to bother to log in to change their skills, but not a necessity at all. EVE is engineered to be a harsh place. Why anyone complains when the Devs give them something absolutely non-critical that makes their gameplay a little easier is beyond me. If you are so bothered by this issue, you will never survive in EVE, as you have no perspective of the game you are playing.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2009.10.31 15:41:00 - [149] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Originally by: Catherine Frasier You're looking at this bass ackwards. The queue is in place to handle skill changes, not skill training. Before the queue skill training would often end during downtime, or while you were at work, or sleeping. The queue lets you avoid that issue. All it does and all it's intended to do is let you switch skills that end at an inconvenient time of day. Since 24hrs covers the complete spectrum of times of day that's all you "need" and all you're ever gonna get. (In fact, we don't even need a queue at all. We got along just fine without it.) And, just a word of advice, anytime you say "Explain to me" and then go on to show that you already know the the explanations (by listing them in the same sentence, ffs) all the rest of us hear is a high-pitched whine. No, you're looking at it idealistically. In an idealistic world everyone is honest, there's no spam, nothing needs nerfed, all is balanced, and nothing needs boosted. In the real world players will do anything they please as long as they can get away with it and will use your program, system, game, or environment however they want. Doing X to try to force them to Y is a non-sequitor. If you want them to do Y, you provide positive motivation for it, you don't try and force it, you cannot force players to play a game, you can only make them want to. Making them log in against their will to avoid missing training time does not accomplish this. I'm not sure why you quoted me at the beginning of this post since your "response" doesn't address what I said at all. I didn't suggest or even mention "forcing" anyone to do anything directly or indirectly. I explained the intended purpose of the queue and how it serves its intended purpose perfectly. You, however, want the queue to serve a new purpose, one which benefits you (and your weird non-play playstyle) personally. Short answer is: No. Long answer is: CCP does not (and should not) set policy based upon the whims and wishes of a very small minority of fringe players. And, just fyi, non sequitur means "does not follow". Logically this occurs when a conclusion does not follow from the premise. I'm not sure what your objection is with "Doing X to try to force them to Y" (since that's ubiquitous in society) but whatever it is it's nothing to do with non sequitur.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.10.31 16:21:00 - [150] Originally by: Jorden Ishonen Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Not once I have I continued to play when I was just logging on to change a skill. If you're that determined not to play the game, why not unsub? Why are you paying money? Unless you're just skilling up a character to sell. If that's the case, I hope CCP bans your account and you lose all the money you spent skilling it up. Did it ever ocurr to you that maybe he has other things to do that keep him from playing now? (like you know the wife, children, job - all the things you'll never have?) Maybe though he wants to keep his chars training for the moment he does have the time to play? Oh, what a scumbag! Lets burn him at the stakes... As for your other remark: please learn economics 101, mmmkay? Char trading is 100% eula conform as long as its done the right way and I bet CCP likes 15Ç a month so why in hell would they suspend his account? Just because you touch yourself at night? Not likely... -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.



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