Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Arakidias
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 07:51:00 -
[31]
The retri has a nice niche in the FW arena where there are loads of T1 and T2 frigates running around.
|
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Purple Reign Entertainment
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 07:57:00 -
[32]
I like the Retribution, though it's been ages since I last flew it.
It has a very specific role and no flexibility, and that is one of the reasons I like it. To many says it's useless because it doesn't have a 2nd mid slot, but what is the point of a 10th point on a target? I wish more ships were like the retribution in it's inflexibility, that would force commanders to put more thoughts in fleet composition. It would also bring a weak point to any fleet and give fleet tactics more importance.
|
Deathhawk
Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 08:13:00 -
[33]
i despise your thread title...
if the retri had 2 med slots it would be overpowered its that good..
Chuck Norris wears Deathhawk pyjamas
One image per sig please. Zymurgist Forum **** at its best. DH |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 13:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Yon Krum The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking.
I suggest you research how the tracking formula works before posting again. Here's a hint: low sig radius doesn't help you if your transversal is too low, and with a slow as hell AB Retribution, it's safe to approximate it as zero.
Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser.
Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF. -----------
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser.
Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF.
To be fair, Retribution v. Phantasm is not going to be a long fight pretty much no matter what
|
Elldranga
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:44:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Elldranga on 30/10/2009 14:44:51
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Yon Krum The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking.
I suggest you research how the tracking formula works before posting again. Here's a hint: low sig radius doesn't help you if your transversal is too low, and with a slow as hell AB Retribution, it's safe to approximate it as zero.
Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser.
Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF.
Actually.... forget the theoretical formula research. Just log onto the server and start shooting at your AF. Forget theorycraft and try actual application. We did this with several different weapon types when the formulas changed last... and we found that the MWD on the AF made it die MUCH faster. I have no idea about the theoretical formulas, but if you shoot at your MWDing AF at a variety of ranges, you'll find you die a heck of a lot faster to med/large guns than you would have if you had an AB on. (quick edit... I should clarify... it was the retri we did this with which was why I mentioned it)
I grant that it sucks to only be going 800ish in the retribution (AB with no speed mods) but putting the MWD on just makes death faster as soon as you actually engage. This is one of the main reasons why AF's are not the uber pawn nano ship they could theoretically be.
I was watching with GREAT interest when they were talking about putting a MWD bonus on AF's. That would have seriously changed the nature of the game.
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:44:00 -
[37]
Edited by: baltec1 on 30/10/2009 14:46:16
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: baltec1 You base your argument on taking out a retribution with one of the best cruisers in game...
Hint: a single Hurricane/Harbinger/etc will kill you faster.
Harbi is the only BC I have trouble with but once below its turrets I have no issues. vagacanes can be tanked at range.
Quote:
Bull****. Either you're lying, or you only fight hilariously bad Fleet Stabber pilots.
Or perhaps I know what I am doing in a ship you cant get to work?
Quote:
A dual-rep Retribution (cap booster in mid, otherwise you cap out almost instantly) can tank 165 dps if it doesn't use its cap-hungry guns. This Retribution will have 10k buffer.
This is a good example of how I know you dont know how to fly retributions.
Quote:
A Fleet Stabber will easily do 350 dps, and since the Retribution has zero threat of web/scram, it can park itself at optimal with zero transversal and apply almost all (if not all) of it to the Retribution.
What makes you think I will let him get zero transversal on me?
Quote:
200 net dps, 10k EHP to tank it on, the Retribution goes down in 50 seconds. And this is a completely unrealistic best-case situation for the Retribution, you'll die much faster in any real fight since you won't actually have that tank on anything outside of EFT.
The enemy also wont get EFT DPS on me
Quote:
The fact that you think that comedy ship can actually tank a 10-man gang is just hilarious. Even one cruiser or BC will kill you, the other nine just make it a question of whether everyone in the gang can get on the killmail before you explode.
Yet it did happen. Your lack of knolage of the retribution and how to fly it has always shown and I will go with my experience of the ship in game rather than your falty EFT opnions.
|
SuiJuris
No.Mercy
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:15:00 -
[38]
In my experiance with a Retribution, Roughly 260+ kills about 6 losses, It is decent as a longe range DPS platform, I fit it with Beams and 2x locus for 46km Anti Frigate work. It runs the MWD permenantly without any problems, Most PvP cruisers fit for short range so cannot hit / catch me, I can kite them all day.
I haven't flown this much since I started flying Crusaders as they are more fun. But put beams and a MWD on it, its really really survivable, if the fight goes south and your FC calls a retreat, your already 35-45km off the fight in a frigate hull so there is little chance of getting caught. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons |
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: baltec1 ...lots of bull****...
You will never get under turrets of bc, because its faster than your lol ab af without scram, you cant tank vagacane at range and sfi /which is btw most of the time faster than you even if you fit mwd/ will just eat you.
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: baltec1 ...lots of bull****...
You will never get under turrets of bc, because its faster than your lol ab af without scram, you cant tank vagacane at range and sfi /which is btw most of the time faster than you even if you fit mwd/ will just eat you.
I have before and I will again. As for the catching a BC. Im with a gang, the gang will catch it and I will hammer it.
|
|
Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 09:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: baltec1 ...lots of bull****...
You will never get under turrets of bc, because its faster than your lol ab af without scram, you cant tank vagacane at range and sfi /which is btw most of the time faster than you even if you fit mwd/ will just eat you.
I have before and I will again. As for the catching a BC. Im with a gang, the gang will catch it and I will hammer it.
Hammer ... with 150 dps on scorch? thats more gently wipe with a wet spounge.
Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Dray
Caldari The Water Margin Tech
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 10:27:00 -
[42]
It only works in gangs because it will get ignored until the target count starts dropping and your still left in the fight, its 1 mid cripples it, not even open to debate.
In most cases you should be able to bring something better, also the single most important factor in any engagement is the quality of the target, whether its in relation to his ship choice, setup, skill, or all/some of these, in which case it doesn't matter what your flying.
Theres better ships out cost and performance wise.
It does look nice tho.
|
Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:13:00 -
[43]
Retri needs a second mid, anybody who says otherwise is only arguing for the sake of arguing.
Spam the CSM mailboxes til they fix this lil ship.
|
Rogue Steel
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:20:00 -
[44]
Being able to shoot and tackle at the same time doesn't make a ship overpowered :p
Retri broken, please fix. |
Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 12:22:00 -
[45]
If you are flying Amarr ships and you want to solo, you take a Sentinel and its older brothers (Arbi, curse and such). If you want to be doing massive damage (the retri does fantastic damage at good ranges) then take the retri and its older brothers (omen, zelot and such).
So, 1) the retri does not need a second mid, its a great ship, does great damage, and plays well with others. and 2) If you want to solo, then fly the ship that can do it. . . not force a ship that is not made to solo. . . solo. That said, I have tried it, and it works sometimes. A lot of people freeze up when all their shields and 30% of their armor just evaporate. ----
|
TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 14:05:00 -
[46]
Guy in my corp seems to solo frigates in it without a point. Apparently they die before they realise they can leave.
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 14:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Grut
Hammer ... with 150 dps on scorch? thats more gently wipe with a wet spounge.
Canes tend to be sheild buffer tanked so my guns are great at ripping them away (EM/Thermal) and since it will most likely be scramed and webbed I will be using multi which will net me 220 dps in the heavy variation.
|
Velin Shade
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 17:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: TimMc Guy in my corp seems to solo frigates in it without a point. Apparently they die before they realise they can leave.
Heh, I've had similar experiences with my Retribution.
This was my fit:
Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II Thermic Plating II Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
It could fend off any jag, wolf, or even arty thrashers.
If only it had a second midslot, I wouldn't have had to cross train Gallente frigs :(
|
Actumarius
Caldari Malevolent Intentions
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 17:13:00 -
[49]
Arent AFs getting an Afterburner speed boost?
|
Dray
Caldari The Water Margin Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.01 07:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: TimMc Guy in my corp seems to solo frigates in it without a point. Apparently they die before they realise they can leave.
Says more about the target then it does about the retribution. To be fair tho I used to fly a crusader with a web instead of a point, same rule applies.
|
|
abrasive soap
Shade. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.01 07:58:00 -
[51]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 01/11/2009 08:00:32
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 31/10/2009 12:27:08 If you are flying Amarr ships and you want to solo, you take a Sentinel and its older brothers (Arbi, curse and such). If you want to be doing massive damage (the retri does fantastic damage at good ranges) then take the retri and its older brothers (omen, zelot and such).
And, fitting a MWD on a Retri is a little stupid. Every situation where you think you may need a MWD is a situation you should be in a Saider. The lesson here is, the Retri is a great ship that does two things really well (gank and tank).
How can you say that the retribution does massive damage? The ishkur, enyo and wolf all outdamage the retribution but with more mids. You say fitting an mwd on a retribution is stupid yet the only real advantage the retribution has is using scorch and shooting to 20km, which does not work so well when you attempt this with an afterburner. The whole concept of tanking well in a frigate is stupid as they are so easy to volley into structure. You may be able to tank some people who have no idea what they're doing, but most people will not let you get beneath their optimal tracking range unless they have neuts.
I really dislike the afterburner bonus when applied to the retribution. It still gets terrible speed without an mwd.
If anyone really thinks the retribution would be overpowered with two midslots, they should reevaluate the other three assaults frigates I mentioned, especially the ishkur.
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2009.11.01 12:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Actumarius Arent AFs getting an Afterburner speed boost?
No. Bad idea, made the good AFs too good, bad ones still sucked, etc.
|
Cpt Branko
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.11.01 12:40:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2009 12:43:15 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2009 12:42:02 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2009 12:40:50
Originally by: baltec1
Harbi is the only BC I have trouble with but once below its turrets I have no issues. vagacanes can be tanked at range.
Vagacanes cannot be tanked at all in a AF, unless they're idiots. My fights vs all active tanked AFs in one lasted seconds, because I'd just get to 13km, stagger the dual neuts and it's game over.
No sense in mucking about in high falloff when you can land the kill much more quickly by going a bit closer.
Fun when a Vengeance or so sees "oh, shield cane, im going to tackle it", anyway. The only ship you have to stay out of scram range against is the damn dual-mse Jag, since it's got a passive tank, passive guns, and is extremely difficult to shake off with dual neuts.
Originally by: abrasive soap
If anyone really thinks the retribution would be overpowered with two midslots, they should reevaluate the other three assaults frigates I mentioned, especially the ishkur.
Truth, I will never understand people who claim that a dual-mid Retribution would be somehow OP.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.01 12:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: baltec1
Harbi is the only BC I have trouble with but once below its turrets I have no issues. vagacanes can be tanked at range.
Vagacanes cannot be tanked at all in a AF, unless they're idiots. My fights vs all active tanked AFs in one lasted seconds, because I'd just get to 13km, stagger the dual neuts and it's game over.
No sense in mucking about in high falloff when you can land the kill much more quickly by going a bit closer.
Fun when a Vengeance or so sees "oh, shield cane, im going to tackle it", anyway. The only ship you have to stay out of scram range against is the damn dual-mse Jag, since it's got a passive tank, passive guns, and is extremely difficult to shake off with dual neuts.
I only ever engage them in fleets, or if I have something with tracking disrupters, or if solo I stay outside a station and use that to help. If on a gate I can hold it long enough to gtfo. Honestly if the ship got its second mid nobody would be saying anything bad about it.
|
Yon Krum
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 08:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Elldranga Edited by: Elldranga on 30/10/2009 14:44:51
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Yon Krum The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking.
I suggest you research how the tracking formula works before posting again. Here's a hint: low sig radius doesn't help you if your transversal is too low, and with a slow as hell AB Retribution, it's safe to approximate it as zero.
Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser.
Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF.
Actually.... forget the theoretical formula research. Just log onto the server and start shooting at your AF. Forget theorycraft and try actual application. We did this with several different weapon types when the formulas changed last... and we found that the MWD on the AF made it die MUCH faster. I have no idea about the theoretical formulas, but if you shoot at your MWDing AF at a variety of ranges, you'll find you die a heck of a lot faster to med/large guns than you would have if you had an AB on. (quick edit... I should clarify... it was the retri we did this with which was why I mentioned it)
I grant that it sucks to only be going 800ish in the retribution (AB with no speed mods) but putting the MWD on just makes death faster as soon as you actually engage. This is one of the main reasons why AF's are not the uber pawn nano ship they could theoretically be.
I was watching with GREAT interest when they were talking about putting a MWD bonus on AF's. That would have seriously changed the nature of the game.
I wouldn't bother to drag this off page six, except that AF in general are a common question for newer pilots, and it would be unkind to leave Merin's unmedicated railing without appropriate challenge.
(Caveat: Merin, who lives in Ships and Modules, is a follower of the Church of Tracking Uber Ales. In that narrow silo he can provide good advice.)
Interceptors are designed to reduce their damage by flying fast under the tracking of other ships. Assault Frigates are designed to use good resists in combination with a small signature radius to reduce damage. This, because they do not have enough speed to avoid being tracked at usual engagement ranges (in tight orbits they can avoid being tracked).
The effect of signature radius versus weapon signature resolution is illustrated in the extremely handy CCP Tracking Guide, which for some reason was flushed from the EVE-O website when they did the redesign and added a wiki. It is archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/20071223162431/www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g25.asp
Note that the "tracking guide" comes in two sections-- Tracking, and Signature. Signature for targets smaller than the resolution of the weapon is compared roughly as: sigTarget/sigWeapon X damage. Thus, if you have a 35 signature (AB retribution), and are shot by a 120 signature weapon (cruiser guns) when at a speed of zero with no resists (your hull), you will take roughly 29.17% of listed weapon damage after skill adjustments.
"Tracking" has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this. Were you moving with enough radial velocity to exceed the tracking of the above cruiser guns, you would further reduce the incoming damage. After all this, resistances are applied. The end result is that AB assault frigates are tough nuts for larger ships to crack.
Be enlightened.
--Krum
--Krum |
Tahkramah
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 22:42:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Tahkramah on 08/11/2009 22:42:59 I fly the Retribution solo on level 4 missions... All you need are 4 sets of Amarr Navy Multifrequency S and Amarr Navy Radio S in your cargo.
[High] 4x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
[Medium] 1x 1mn Afterburner (or better)
[Low] 2x Adaptive Nano Plating II 2x Heat Sink II 1x Small Armor Repairer II
[Rigs] 1x Small Energy Burst Aerator I 1x Capacitor Control Circuit
It is an amazing ship for tanking level 4 missions. Just make sure to take out the frigates FIRST and stay 13km out from him with Radio S charges. And turn on Afterburner right after warp in.
Works great and good to have a Destroyer to take care of the frigates faster. Then have a Battlecruiser to take out the tougher ships. But I have taken out battleships easy with the Retribution.
Don't dis on the Retribution!
So you *can* run level 4s with the Retribution!
|
Loviza
Amarr Terra Rosa Militia
|
Posted - 2009.11.09 04:48:00 -
[57]
I love the Retribution. Lovely little tough cookie. However as so many else here already been saying, its primarly a PvE ship.
I can only see it in PvP as an anti-tackler killer or frigate support role. Where many other types of ship could do it better or cheaper for the same effect.
|
Kirzath
Blackwater Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:23:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Yon Krum Snip
Look at how stupid you are.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:32:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/11/2009 05:32:42
Originally by: Yon Krum Note that the "tracking guide" comes in two sections-- Tracking, and Signature. Signature for targets smaller than the resolution of the weapon is compared roughly as: sigTarget/sigWeapon X damage. Thus, if you have a 35 signature (AB retribution), and are shot by a 120 signature weapon (cruiser guns) when at a speed of zero with no resists (your hull), you will take roughly 29.17% of listed weapon damage after skill adjustments.
100% WRONG. Please learn the formula before making stupid posts. {sig radius/gun radius} is a multiplier on tracking, not a separate damage reduction calculation. IOW, if you are at minimal transversal and receiving near-zero damage reduction, that near-zero damage reduction is multiplied by the sig radius factor, but is still near-zero. You might go from taking 99.99% damage to taking "only" 95% damage, but it isn't going to save you.
This is not a subject that is open to debate. The tracking formula and the lack of damage reduction in low sig, low transversal situations is fact, like it or not. I've killed plenty of frigates that way, and their low sig did absolutely nothing for them. -----------
|
Ruutie
|
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:29:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Ruutie on 09/11/2009 10:34:18 Edited by: Ruutie on 09/11/2009 10:30:28
Originally by: Yon Krum
Note that the "tracking guide" comes in two sections-- Tracking, and Signature. Signature for targets smaller than the resolution of the weapon is compared roughly as: sigTarget/sigWeapon X damage. Thus, if you have a 35 signature (AB retribution), and are shot by a 120 signature weapon (cruiser guns) when at a speed of zero with no resists (your hull), you will take roughly 29.17% of listed weapon damage after skill adjustments.
No. You're wrong Krum. This is a very common misconception. The signature resolution of a gun versus the signature radius of a ship simply serves as a multiplier of the damage reduction you suffer if your guns are being out tracked. In essence, your signature radius offers you little protection when your transveral is zero.
For example, in the extreme case. If you are stationary in a frigate, a battleship gun's tracking penalty would be 0. The sig radius/resolution multiplier, as a result, would have no effect, obviously, because 0 times anything is still zero.
Btw, be enlightened. : P
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |