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LORD SKARKON	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:25:00 - [1] I (regretfully) purchased a retribution while not realizing at the time that the ship only has 1 medium slot. On top of that, it's hard to fit anything nice on it imo. That being said, I cannot figure out wtf the point of this ship is. I can see why people use the vengeance, but aren't rocket's utter crap? I wanted laz0rz :(
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:27:00 - [2] Is this the new domi/drake thread or something?
ovenproofjet Caldari Therapy. District Asylum	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:32:00 - [3] [Retribution, New Setup 1] Small Armor Repairer II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Idea is, you're the frigate killer. Any frig that comes inside of 14km will get obliterated by this ship. It does scary damage for a frigate on anything cruiser and up, sure it lacks tackle but thats what interceptors are for
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:36:00 - [4] NONONONONO! Use Energy Collision Accelerator I, CCCs don't belong!
ovenproofjet Caldari Therapy. District Asylum	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:42:00 - [5] Originally by: baltec1 NONONONONO! Use Energy Collision Accelerator I, CCCs don't belong! Not enough powergrid to do that without buying implants
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:46:00 - [6] Originally by: ovenproofjet Originally by: baltec1 NONONONONO! Use Energy Collision Accelerator I, CCCs don't belong! Not enough powergrid to do that without buying implants Get your Energy weapon rigging skill up and it will
ovenproofjet Caldari Therapy. District Asylum	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:49:00 - [7] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: ovenproofjet Originally by: baltec1 NONONONONO! Use Energy Collision Accelerator I, CCCs don't belong! Not enough powergrid to do that without buying implants Get your Energy weapon rigging skill up and it will True lol but I've got a carrier skill plan needs that training time! But yes, they do improve the DPS to about 150 which is pretty damn good from this little ship
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.29 16:59:00 - [8] I've seen Retributions used in two roles: - Lowsec PVE (L3-L4) - Damage dealer in frig roams (where a coercer may have arguably been better) I have no intention of buying a Retri until it has 2 mid slots. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
sceadaa	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:03:00 - [9] For PVP it's useless due do to 1 Med - no Scram/webber + Ab/Mwd. So I use it for PVE, low Missions, Ratting (searching for faction spawns in High), Highsec Complexes,... [Retribution, New Setup 1] Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I 1MN Afterburner II Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Salvager I Small Energy Collision Accelerator I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Note: Named Cap Relay because T2 does not fit, same with Corpii/Centii Items (but they are cheap), Cap Stable with everything on except the Salvager.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Liang Nuren I've seen Retributions used in two roles: - Lowsec PVE (L3-L4) - Damage dealer in frig roams (where a coercer may have arguably been better) I have no intention of buying a Retri until it has 2 mid slots. -Liang what if it had 5 turrets? /nagging --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren I've seen Retributions used in two roles: - Lowsec PVE (L3-L4) - Damage dealer in frig roams (where a coercer may have arguably been better) I have no intention of buying a Retri until it has 2 mid slots. -Liang Coercer cannot tank.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Grimpak what if it had 5 turrets? I'm not immediately familiar with what the implications of that would be. I think if it had 5 turrets, double optimal (20% optimal) and double damage bonus (10% Damage) I might go for it. I have AF5 afterall. ;-) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:39:00 - [13] I can get coercer to like 9-10k ehp with better damage than retri. Btw dont think you can "tank" something in gang... for example - you can get under guns of 1 harbi, but second 10k away will track you fine and tear you apart in 15secs /yes coercer will die in 10 secs heh, but also cost much less/. And dont forget, that faster frig /inty/ can easily get under tracking of med pulses...
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 17:55:00 - [14] Ehp is just a number on paper in my experience. I have found that having a tank in a gang does work and just because a large nasty ship locks you up doesnt mean your going to die to it. I have had upwards of 10 ships trying to whack me and still managed to get away. The dessies are great at anti inti work but they dont last long at all when shot at while the retri is a proven survivor.
Elyham Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:15:00 - [15] Originally by: LORD SKARKON I (regretfully) purchased a retribution while not realizing at the time that the ship only has 1 medium slot. On top of that, it's hard to fit anything nice on it imo. That being said, I cannot figure out wtf the point of this ship is. I can see why people use the vengeance, but aren't rocket's utter crap? I wanted laz0rz :( It works great for Empire griefing and mining battleship tear extraction.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:30:00 - [16] Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 29/10/2009 18:34:21 Originally by: ovenproofjet [Retribution, New Setup 1] Small Armor Repairer II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Idea is, you're the frigate killer. Any frig that comes inside of 14km will get obliterated by this ship. It does scary damage for a frigate on anything cruiser and up, sure it lacks tackle but thats what interceptors are for Hi, I'm an assault missile Caracal. I do the same thing better than you while moving faster (than your AB lolfit) with a better tank for a tiny fraction of the cost as well as mounting tackle gear at greater range and even being easier to skill for. You might also like to meet my friends Vexor, Thrasher and Ishkur. Retribution = worthless.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Hi, I'm an assault missile Caracal. I do the same thing better than you while moving faster (than your AB lolfit) with a better tank for a tiny fraction of the cost as well as mounting tackle gear at greater range and even being easier to skill for. You might also like to meet my friends Vexor, Thrasher and Ishkur. Retribution = worthless. Hi. I also fly that caracal and I know it cant do what a retribution can do with its tank.
Samaritan Azuma Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:58:00 - [18] hi, im beng sarcastic If it weren't for downtime, I wouldn't make stupid posts.
Jeremy Samson	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:59:00 - [19] Edited by: Jeremy Samson on 29/10/2009 18:59:41 You should probably sell this ship, or just reprocess it, the Retribution is 100% worthless compared to the huge amount of other ships you could be flying instead. (For pvp purposes obviously, who cares what you fly for PVE :p)
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:19:00 - [20] Originally by: baltec1 Hi. I also fly that caracal and I know it cant do what a retribution can do with its tank. What a Retribution can do with its tank is "die quickly". With no MWD (even if you fit one, one mid = no cap to run it), you have zero transversal, and die very quickly. Even a single cruiser can do 500+ dps, and there's no way you're going to tank that for very long. Against more than one ship it's just an execution, active tank won't make even the slightest difference, and your mediocre HP buffer will be gone before you can even hit the "warp out" button. If you doubt me, just ask the last person foolish enough to let me catch them flying a Retribution. They died in *six seconds* to my Phantasm. Three shots from my guns at zero transversal and he was a very expensive wreck. -----------
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:33:00 - [21] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Hi, I'm an assault missile Caracal. I do the same thing better than you while moving faster (than your AB lolfit) with a better tank for a tiny fraction of the cost as well as mounting tackle gear at greater range and even being easier to skill for. You might also like to meet my friends Vexor, Thrasher and Ishkur. Retribution = worthless. Hi. I also fly that caracal and I know it cant do what a retribution can do with its tank. By your logic we should all be flying PVE passive tanked rocket Drakes, because a tanked out brick that's outdone in every other way is awesome for pvp amirite?
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 Hi. I also fly that caracal and I know it cant do what a retribution can do with its tank. What a Retribution can do with its tank is "die quickly". With no MWD (even if you fit one, one mid = no cap to run it), you have zero transversal, and die very quickly. Even a single cruiser can do 500+ dps, and there's no way you're going to tank that for very long. Against more than one ship it's just an execution, active tank won't make even the slightest difference, and your mediocre HP buffer will be gone before you can even hit the "warp out" button. If you doubt me, just ask the last person foolish enough to let me catch them flying a Retribution. They died in *six seconds* to my Phantasm. Three shots from my guns at zero transversal and he was a very expensive wreck. You base your argument on taking out a retribution with one of the best cruisers in game... I have flown retributions for very long time now and I can safely say most cruisers are not that much of a threat. Hell I can tank a fleet issue stabber forever and since I use an AB I dont get cap issues and I dont have a massive sig that will only hinder me.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.10.29 19:44:00 - [23] Didn't we just have this thread? I like the retribution. It's very good for a frigate sized pure gunship, and IMO there aren't very many other ships can can project that much damage at that much range with that much tracking, while being so small (and contrary to what Merin says, it's not like it instantly dies when somebody looks at it the wrong way). I think that it is significantly better than every other AFs for the specific role of burning ceptors off of other people. Ishkur has to send its drones chasing after things and really the Retribution DOES have the most DPS and at very good range. Unfortunately it doesn't live very long if people want it to die, and there are other ships that can perform its role almost as well while also bringing a point to the gang. Frankly, I don't think it would be very much better with a point fitted anyway; it's not especially fast and it has high cap use so it doesn't make a good tackler. I think it'd be pretty good with a 5th turret; 240 dps at 22-23km with frigate tracking IS imho, good enough to spend a ship on.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.10.29 20:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Terianna Eri and there are other ships that can perform its role almost as well I'd call doing its job at 60km for a 10th of the price a tad higher than "almost as well".
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.29 20:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Originally by: Terianna Eri and there are other ships that can perform its role almost as well I'd call doing its job at 60km for a 10th of the price a tad higher than "almost as well". A caracal is not very good at taking on cruisers and BC nore can it take large amounts of fire in fleet fights, its just too big and cant tank enough. A retribution can do those things.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.10.29 21:00:00 - [26] Looks like some ppl have no idea and baltec is just lying. You cant tank fleet stabber with retri /you will survive maybe 20-25s vs properly fitted sfi/ and you cant tank large amounts of fire in fleet with it. Retri is worthless. I dont understand ppl bringing it to frig gangs, they are much more usefull frigs to use and i consider ppl bringing them to regular fleets ******ed.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.10.29 21:52:00 - [27] Originally by: baltec1 You base your argument on taking out a retribution with one of the best cruisers in game... Hint: a single Hurricane/Harbinger/etc will kill you faster. Quote: I have flown retributions for very long time now and I can safely say most cruisers are not that much of a threat. Hell I can tank a fleet issue stabber forever and since I use an AB I dont get cap issues and I dont have a massive sig that will only hinder me. Bull****. Either you're lying, or you only fight hilariously bad Fleet Stabber pilots. A dual-rep Retribution (cap booster in mid, otherwise you cap out almost instantly) can tank 165 dps if it doesn't use its cap-hungry guns. This Retribution will have 10k buffer. A Fleet Stabber will easily do 350 dps, and since the Retribution has zero threat of web/scram, it can park itself at optimal with zero transversal and apply almost all (if not all) of it to the Retribution. 200 net dps, 10k EHP to tank it on, the Retribution goes down in 50 seconds. And this is a completely unrealistic best-case situation for the Retribution, you'll die much faster in any real fight since you won't actually have that tank on anything outside of EFT. The fact that you think that comedy ship can actually tank a 10-man gang is just hilarious. Even one cruiser or BC will kill you, the other nine just make it a question of whether everyone in the gang can get on the killmail before you explode. -----------
Thea Arsoniztik Red Tides Viewer Discretion Advised	Posted - 2009.10.29 22:00:00 - [28] pve ship, plain and simple.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:12:00 - [29] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 30/10/2009 07:15:40 A retri can run pulse lasers + MWD indefinitely if your cap skills don't suck. [Retribution, Retribution] Small Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Micro B66 Core Augmentation Thermic Plating II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Salvager I Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I 41% cap stable. My skills. 20km range with scorch. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Yon Krum The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Merin Ryskin A Fleet Stabber will easily do 350 dps, and since the Retribution has zero threat of web/scram, it can park itself at optimal with zero transversal and apply almost all (if not all) of it to the Retribution. 200 net dps, 10k EHP to tank it on, the Retribution goes down in 50 seconds. And this is a completely unrealistic best-case situation for the Retribution, you'll die much faster in any real fight since you won't actually have that tank on anything outside of EFT. The fact that you think that comedy ship can actually tank a 10-man gang is just hilarious. Even one cruiser or BC will kill you, the other nine just make it a question of whether everyone in the gang can get on the killmail before you explode. The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking. Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser. Though it is an easily demonstrable fact that there are better anti-frigate platforms out there, from pure DPS/tracking standpoints (like the AS Caracal, Arbitrator, Thrasher, etc. ad nauseum), they are all with at least twice the sig radius and without twice the tanking ability. When faced with cruiser-sized guns, these other contenders melt quickly where the Retri might survive. Might, because of that lol-AB that's still not making it fast enough to get away from a MWD cruiser. The Retri's big problem is not the lack of a midslot, but the lack of either enough speed or enough firepower to rule its tiny "dps niche" for AF. So, to the OP, keep the Retri. It's fun to fly but is no solomobile. You can make it snipe to 58km, btw. The Coercer is cheaper (not 1/10th the cost after fitting!) with similar characteristics, but it dies after the first stern look unless you're already aligned and at speed. --Krum --Krum
Arakidias The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:51:00 - [31] The retri has a nice niche in the FW arena where there are loads of T1 and T2 frigates running around.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Purple Reign Entertainment	Posted - 2009.10.30 07:57:00 - [32] I like the Retribution, though it's been ages since I last flew it. It has a very specific role and no flexibility, and that is one of the reasons I like it. To many says it's useless because it doesn't have a 2nd mid slot, but what is the point of a 10th point on a target? I wish more ships were like the retribution in it's inflexibility, that would force commanders to put more thoughts in fleet composition. It would also bring a weak point to any fleet and give fleet tactics more importance.
Deathhawk Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2009.10.30 08:13:00 - [33] i despise your thread title... if the retri had 2 med slots it would be overpowered its that good.. Chuck Norris wears Deathhawk pyjamas One image per sig please. Zymurgist Forum **** at its best. DH
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.10.30 13:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Yon Krum The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking. I suggest you research how the tracking formula works before posting again. Here's a hint: low sig radius doesn't help you if your transversal is too low, and with a slow as hell AB Retribution, it's safe to approximate it as zero. Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser. Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF. -----------
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:28:00 - [35] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser. Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF. To be fair, Retribution v. Phantasm is not going to be a long fight pretty much no matter what
Elldranga	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:44:00 - [36] Edited by: Elldranga on 30/10/2009 14:44:51 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Yon Krum The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking. I suggest you research how the tracking formula works before posting again. Here's a hint: low sig radius doesn't help you if your transversal is too low, and with a slow as hell AB Retribution, it's safe to approximate it as zero. Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser. Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF. Actually.... forget the theoretical formula research. Just log onto the server and start shooting at your AF. Forget theorycraft and try actual application. We did this with several different weapon types when the formulas changed last... and we found that the MWD on the AF made it die MUCH faster. I have no idea about the theoretical formulas, but if you shoot at your MWDing AF at a variety of ranges, you'll find you die a heck of a lot faster to med/large guns than you would have if you had an AB on. (quick edit... I should clarify... it was the retri we did this with which was why I mentioned it) I grant that it sucks to only be going 800ish in the retribution (AB with no speed mods) but putting the MWD on just makes death faster as soon as you actually engage. This is one of the main reasons why AF's are not the uber pawn nano ship they could theoretically be. I was watching with GREAT interest when they were talking about putting a MWD bonus on AF's. That would have seriously changed the nature of the game.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.30 14:44:00 - [37] Edited by: baltec1 on 30/10/2009 14:46:16 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 You base your argument on taking out a retribution with one of the best cruisers in game... Hint: a single Hurricane/Harbinger/etc will kill you faster. Harbi is the only BC I have trouble with but once below its turrets I have no issues. vagacanes can be tanked at range. Quote: Bull**. Either you're lying, or you only fight hilariously bad Fleet Stabber pilots. Or perhaps I know what I am doing in a ship you cant get to work? Quote: A dual-rep Retribution (cap booster in mid, otherwise you cap out almost instantly) can tank 165 dps if it doesn't use its cap-hungry guns. This Retribution will have 10k buffer. This is a good example of how I know you dont know how to fly retributions. Quote: A Fleet Stabber will easily do 350 dps, and since the Retribution has zero threat of web/scram, it can park itself at optimal with zero transversal and apply almost all (if not all) of it to the Retribution. What makes you think I will let him get zero transversal on me? Quote: 200 net dps, 10k EHP to tank it on, the Retribution goes down in 50 seconds. And this is a completely unrealistic best-case situation for the Retribution, you'll die much faster in any real fight since you won't actually have that tank on anything outside of EFT. The enemy also wont get EFT DPS on me Quote:** The fact that you think that comedy ship can actually tank a 10-man gang is just hilarious. Even one cruiser or BC will kill you, the other nine just make it a question of whether everyone in the gang can get on the killmail before you explode. Yet it did happen. Your lack of knolage of the retribution and how to fly it has always shown and I will go with my experience of the ship in game rather than your falty EFT opnions.
SuiJuris No.Mercy	Posted - 2009.10.30 15:15:00 - [38] In my experiance with a Retribution, Roughly 260+ kills about 6 losses, It is decent as a longe range DPS platform, I fit it with Beams and 2x locus for 46km Anti Frigate work. It runs the MWD permenantly without any problems, Most PvP cruisers fit for short range so cannot hit / catch me, I can kite them all day. I haven't flown this much since I started flying Crusaders as they are more fun. But put beams and a MWD on it, its really really survivable, if the fight goes south and your FC calls a retreat, your already 35-45km off the fight in a frigate hull so there is little chance of getting caught. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.10.30 15:16:00 - [39] Originally by: baltec1 ...lots of bull****... You will never get under turrets of bc, because its faster than your lol ab af without scram, you cant tank vagacane at range and sfi /which is btw most of the time faster than you even if you fit mwd/ will just eat you.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.30 15:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Originally by: baltec1 ...lots of bull****... You will never get under turrets of bc, because its faster than your lol ab af without scram, you cant tank vagacane at range and sfi /which is btw most of the time faster than you even if you fit mwd/ will just eat you. I have before and I will again. As for the catching a BC. Im with a gang, the gang will catch it and I will hammer it.
Grut Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.31 09:32:00 - [41] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Originally by: baltec1 ...lots of bull****... You will never get under turrets of bc, because its faster than your lol ab af without scram, you cant tank vagacane at range and sfi /which is btw most of the time faster than you even if you fit mwd/ will just eat you. I have before and I will again. As for the catching a BC. Im with a gang, the gang will catch it and I will hammer it. Hammer ... with 150 dps on scorch? thats more gently wipe with a wet spounge. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Dray Caldari The Water Margin Tech	Posted - 2009.10.31 10:27:00 - [42] It only works in gangs because it will get ignored until the target count starts dropping and your still left in the fight, its 1 mid cripples it, not even open to debate. In most cases you should be able to bring something better, also the single most important factor in any engagement is the quality of the target, whether its in relation to his ship choice, setup, skill, or all/some of these, in which case it doesn't matter what your flying. Theres better ships out cost and performance wise. It does look nice tho.
Kazzzi Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.31 11:13:00 - [43] Retri needs a second mid, anybody who says otherwise is only arguing for the sake of arguing. Spam the CSM mailboxes til they fix this lil ship.
Rogue Steel Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.31 11:20:00 - [44] Being able to shoot and tackle at the same time doesn't make a ship overpowered :p Retri broken, please fix.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.31 12:22:00 - [45] If you are flying Amarr ships and you want to solo, you take a Sentinel and its older brothers (Arbi, curse and such). If you want to be doing massive damage (the retri does fantastic damage at good ranges) then take the retri and its older brothers (omen, zelot and such). So, 1) the retri does not need a second mid, its a great ship, does great damage, and plays well with others. and 2) If you want to solo, then fly the ship that can do it. . . not force a ship that is not made to solo. . . solo. That said, I have tried it, and it works sometimes. A lot of people freeze up when all their shields and 30% of their armor just evaporate. ----
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.10.31 14:05:00 - [46] Guy in my corp seems to solo frigates in it without a point. Apparently they die before they realise they can leave.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.31 14:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Grut Hammer ... with 150 dps on scorch? thats more gently wipe with a wet spounge. Canes tend to be sheild buffer tanked so my guns are great at ripping them away (EM/Thermal) and since it will most likely be scramed and webbed I will be using multi which will net me 220 dps in the heavy variation.
Velin Shade	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:00:00 - [48] Originally by: TimMc Guy in my corp seems to solo frigates in it without a point. Apparently they die before they realise they can leave. Heh, I've had similar experiences with my Retribution. This was my fit: Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II Thermic Plating II Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer It could fend off any jag, wolf, or even arty thrashers. If only it had a second midslot, I wouldn't have had to cross train Gallente frigs :(
Actumarius Caldari Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2009.10.31 17:13:00 - [49] Arent AFs getting an Afterburner speed boost?
Dray Caldari The Water Margin Tech	Posted - 2009.11.01 07:07:00 - [50] Originally by: TimMc Guy in my corp seems to solo frigates in it without a point. Apparently they die before they realise they can leave. Says more about the target then it does about the retribution. To be fair tho I used to fly a crusader with a web instead of a point, same rule applies.
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.11.01 07:58:00 - [51] Edited by: abrasive soap on 01/11/2009 08:00:32 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 31/10/2009 12:27:08 If you are flying Amarr ships and you want to solo, you take a Sentinel and its older brothers (Arbi, curse and such). If you want to be doing massive damage (the retri does fantastic damage at good ranges) then take the retri and its older brothers (omen, zelot and such). And, fitting a MWD on a Retri is a little stupid. Every situation where you think you may need a MWD is a situation you should be in a Saider. The lesson here is, the Retri is a great ship that does two things really well (gank and tank). How can you say that the retribution does massive damage? The ishkur, enyo and wolf all outdamage the retribution but with more mids. You say fitting an mwd on a retribution is stupid yet the only real advantage the retribution has is using scorch and shooting to 20km, which does not work so well when you attempt this with an afterburner. The whole concept of tanking well in a frigate is stupid as they are so easy to volley into structure. You may be able to tank some people who have no idea what they're doing, but most people will not let you get beneath their optimal tracking range unless they have neuts. I really dislike the afterburner bonus when applied to the retribution. It still gets terrible speed without an mwd. If anyone really thinks the retribution would be overpowered with two midslots, they should reevaluate the other three assaults frigates I mentioned, especially the ishkur.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.01 12:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Actumarius Arent AFs getting an Afterburner speed boost? No. Bad idea, made the good AFs too good, bad ones still sucked, etc.
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.11.01 12:40:00 - [53] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2009 12:43:15 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2009 12:42:02 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2009 12:40:50 Originally by: baltec1 Harbi is the only BC I have trouble with but once below its turrets I have no issues. vagacanes can be tanked at range. Vagacanes cannot be tanked at all in a AF, unless they're idiots. My fights vs all active tanked AFs in one lasted seconds, because I'd just get to 13km, stagger the dual neuts and it's game over. No sense in mucking about in high falloff when you can land the kill much more quickly by going a bit closer. Fun when a Vengeance or so sees "oh, shield cane, im going to tackle it", anyway. The only ship you have to stay out of scram range against is the damn dual-mse Jag, since it's got a passive tank, passive guns, and is extremely difficult to shake off with dual neuts. Originally by: abrasive soap If anyone really thinks the retribution would be overpowered with two midslots, they should reevaluate the other three assaults frigates I mentioned, especially the ishkur. Truth, I will never understand people who claim that a dual-mid Retribution would be somehow OP. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.01 12:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: baltec1 Harbi is the only BC I have trouble with but once below its turrets I have no issues. vagacanes can be tanked at range. Vagacanes cannot be tanked at all in a AF, unless they're idiots. My fights vs all active tanked AFs in one lasted seconds, because I'd just get to 13km, stagger the dual neuts and it's game over. No sense in mucking about in high falloff when you can land the kill much more quickly by going a bit closer. Fun when a Vengeance or so sees "oh, shield cane, im going to tackle it", anyway. The only ship you have to stay out of scram range against is the damn dual-mse Jag, since it's got a passive tank, passive guns, and is extremely difficult to shake off with dual neuts. I only ever engage them in fleets, or if I have something with tracking disrupters, or if solo I stay outside a station and use that to help. If on a gate I can hold it long enough to gtfo. Honestly if the ship got its second mid nobody would be saying anything bad about it.
Yon Krum The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2009.11.07 08:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Elldranga Edited by: Elldranga on 30/10/2009 14:44:51 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Yon Krum The hilarious part is how badly Merin has omitted the role of sig radius on incoming damage. Unless you have the above no-speed-mod Retribution painted, the example fleet stabber will do about 35/120 = 29.16% of it's normal damage, or in this case 102 dps. Tracking is irrelevant to the Retri, since it's only hope is sig-tanking. I suggest you research how the tracking formula works before posting again. Here's a hint: low sig radius doesn't help you if your transversal is too low, and with a slow as hell AB Retribution, it's safe to approximate it as zero. Quote: Though I simply cannot be arsed to care enough and look it up, I suspect your fantastic Phantasm-on-Retri kill was against a moron with a MWD, which will get a Retri--or most AF for that matter--killed in short order versus even a T1 cruiser. Actually it was an AB, which is why it died so fast. AB = too slow to keep transversal up = dead AF. Actually.... forget the theoretical formula research. Just log onto the server and start shooting at your AF. Forget theorycraft and try actual application. We did this with several different weapon types when the formulas changed last... and we found that the MWD on the AF made it die MUCH faster. I have no idea about the theoretical formulas, but if you shoot at your MWDing AF at a variety of ranges, you'll find you die a heck of a lot faster to med/large guns than you would have if you had an AB on. (quick edit... I should clarify... it was the retri we did this with which was why I mentioned it) I grant that it sucks to only be going 800ish in the retribution (AB with no speed mods) but putting the MWD on just makes death faster as soon as you actually engage. This is one of the main reasons why AF's are not the uber pawn nano ship they could theoretically be. I was watching with GREAT interest when they were talking about putting a MWD bonus on AF's. That would have seriously changed the nature of the game. I wouldn't bother to drag this off page six, except that AF in general are a common question for newer pilots, and it would be unkind to leave Merin's unmedicated railing without appropriate challenge. (Caveat: Merin, who lives in Ships and Modules, is a follower of the Church of Tracking Uber Ales. In that narrow silo he can provide good advice.) Interceptors are designed to reduce their damage by flying fast under the tracking of other ships. Assault Frigates are designed to use good resists in combination with a small signature radius to reduce damage. This, because they do not have enough speed to avoid being tracked at usual engagement ranges (in tight orbits they can avoid being tracked). The effect of signature radius versus weapon signature resolution is illustrated in the extremely handy CCP Tracking Guide, which for some reason was flushed from the EVE-O website when they did the redesign and added a wiki. It is archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/20071223162431/www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g25.asp Note that the "tracking guide" comes in two sections-- Tracking, and Signature. Signature for targets smaller than the resolution of the weapon is compared roughly as: sigTarget/sigWeapon X damage. Thus, if you have a 35 signature (AB retribution), and are shot by a 120 signature weapon (cruiser guns) when at a speed of zero with no resists (your hull), you will take roughly 29.17% of listed weapon damage after skill adjustments. "Tracking" has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this. Were you moving with enough radial velocity to exceed the tracking of the above cruiser guns, you would further reduce the incoming damage. After all this, resistances are applied. The end result is that AB assault frigates are tough nuts for larger ships to crack. Be enlightened. --Krum --Krum
Tahkramah	Posted - 2009.11.08 22:42:00 - [56] Edited by: Tahkramah on 08/11/2009 22:42:59 I fly the Retribution solo on level 4 missions... All you need are 4 sets of Amarr Navy Multifrequency S and Amarr Navy Radio S in your cargo. [High] 4x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I [Medium] 1x 1mn Afterburner (or better) [Low] 2x Adaptive Nano Plating II 2x Heat Sink II 1x Small Armor Repairer II [Rigs] 1x Small Energy Burst Aerator I 1x Capacitor Control Circuit It is an amazing ship for tanking level 4 missions. Just make sure to take out the frigates FIRST and stay 13km out from him with Radio S charges. And turn on Afterburner right after warp in. Works great and good to have a Destroyer to take care of the frigates faster. Then have a Battlecruiser to take out the tougher ships. But I have taken out battleships easy with the Retribution. Don't dis on the Retribution! So you can run level 4s with the Retribution!
Loviza Amarr Terra Rosa Militia	Posted - 2009.11.09 04:48:00 - [57] I love the Retribution. Lovely little tough cookie. However as so many else here already been saying, its primarly a PvE ship. I can only see it in PvP as an anti-tackler killer or frigate support role. Where many other types of ship could do it better or cheaper for the same effect.
Kirzath Blackwater Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.09 05:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Yon Krum Snip Look at how stupid you are.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.11.09 05:32:00 - [59] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/11/2009 05:32:42 Originally by: Yon Krum Note that the "tracking guide" comes in two sections-- Tracking, and Signature. Signature for targets smaller than the resolution of the weapon is compared roughly as: sigTarget/sigWeapon X damage. Thus, if you have a 35 signature (AB retribution), and are shot by a 120 signature weapon (cruiser guns) when at a speed of zero with no resists (your hull), you will take roughly 29.17% of listed weapon damage after skill adjustments. 100% WRONG. Please learn the formula before making stupid posts. {sig radius/gun radius} is a multiplier on tracking, not a separate damage reduction calculation. IOW, if you are at minimal transversal and receiving near-zero damage reduction, that near-zero damage reduction is multiplied by the sig radius factor, but is still near-zero. You might go from taking 99.99% damage to taking "only" 95% damage, but it isn't going to save you. This is not a subject that is open to debate. The tracking formula and the lack of damage reduction in low sig, low transversal situations is fact, like it or not. I've killed plenty of frigates that way, and their low sig did absolutely nothing for them. -----------
Ruutie	Posted - 2009.11.09 10:29:00 - [60] Edited by: Ruutie on 09/11/2009 10:34:18 Edited by: Ruutie on 09/11/2009 10:30:28 Originally by: Yon Krum Note that the "tracking guide" comes in two sections-- Tracking, and Signature. Signature for targets smaller than the resolution of the weapon is compared roughly as: sigTarget/sigWeapon X damage. Thus, if you have a 35 signature (AB retribution), and are shot by a 120 signature weapon (cruiser guns) when at a speed of zero with no resists (your hull), you will take roughly 29.17% of listed weapon damage after skill adjustments. No. You're wrong Krum. This is a very common misconception. The signature resolution of a gun versus the signature radius of a ship simply serves as a multiplier of the damage reduction you suffer if your guns are being out tracked. In essence, your signature radius offers you little protection when your transveral is zero. For example, in the extreme case. If you are stationary in a frigate, a battleship gun's tracking penalty would be 0. The sig radius/resolution multiplier, as a result, would have no effect, obviously, because 0 times anything is still zero. Btw, be enlightened. : P

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