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Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.12 03:21:00 - [1] Hello, i am looking for as much information I can get on level 10 complexes. I primarily want to know what it takes to do it. Could a battleship with dual true sansha reppers with 70%/75% across with 6 heavy repair drones on him tank it? Is there much for energy neut rats?
Needle Juice Caldari Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.11.12 04:52:00 - [2] yes you can solo it just like level 4 blockade
Vikarion Caldari Chorus of Nephilim	Posted - 2009.11.12 05:04:00 - [3] You should count on either using innovative tactics (i.e., keeping out of range whilst sniping, not possible with every plex, IIRC), or bring logistics and a few pilots.
Johnny Silvertongue	Posted - 2009.11.12 08:43:00 - [4] Level 10 plexes are definatly not ment do be done solo. period. With great luck and extreme low pace you could manage to get one done, but it will take forever and you need need to know it inside out to do so...
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.12 13:11:00 - [5] Hello guys and thanks for your replies! I'm fairly excited just to hear that they can be done solo. I don't intend to do them solo; I have 2 alt raven pilots (where the 6 heavy repper drones come from) for DPS. The tank (a navy apoc) is just going to be fit with smartbombs, tractors and salvagers with the biggest tank i manage. i'd use a regular apoc if I could turn the second repairer on only on occasion. the ravens won't be paper, but I don't want them to get aggro anyway, so I'd like to aggro everything with the apoc and then bring the ravens in.
Kora Zilesti	Posted - 2009.11.12 13:26:00 - [6] Good luck with that. A 10/10 complex is going to be throwing enough dps at you to melt even the most brute of individual tanks. Nighthawk? Maybe. But you go in there with your current plan, and you're going to fry. Do all the research you can. Even lower-class sites can surprise you with tackler frigs and neut towers... so don't screw around with a 10/10.
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.12 13:56:00 - [7] Kora, i'm not disagreeing, but rather trying to figure this out. The dual reps do over 3x the repair as a NH with only 15% avg resist less. It will be repairing 3k armor every 11.25 seconds indefinitely, and if I use faction resist modules, I could probably get around 80%/85% resists. What do you think?
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.12 14:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 12/11/2009 14:38:11 Originally by: Ranscrip Kora, i'm not disagreeing, but rather trying to figure this out. The dual reps do over 3x the repair as a NH with only 15% avg resist less. It will be repairing 3k armor every 11.25 seconds indefinitely, and if I use faction resist modules, I could probably get around 80%/85% resists. What do you think? I think you will be a juicy target for every wanna-be pirate that roams your area. And rightfully so.. this is team content, and end-game team content to be more precisely. Faction fitting solo guys like you with their multiple alt chars ruin the game, imho. But oh well, this is just my opinion. Wish you all the worst with your undertaking.
ONLYDEADCAN SEE	Posted - 2009.11.12 15:00:00 - [9] Well, i've not completed all versions of 10/10 plexes only guristas but, 10/10 plexes and some other lower tier plexes has citadel torpedoes, smartbombs etc. that give extraordinary damages to the static and slow targets. Because of that most of these plexes tanked by speed and sig tanking tactics with dedicated logistic ships. Its almost suicide to enter these sites with a slow ass battleships. Also remind that repair drones are not efficient as logistic ships. Here is an example of similar situation; 2009.01.22 17:11:00 Victim: xxxxx Corp: xxxxx Alliance: xxxxx Faction: NONE Destroyed: Cerberus System: xxxxx Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 33662 Involved parties: Name: Thor Torpedo I / Guristas Pirates (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 33662 Above mentioned cerberus can easily tanked the citadel torpedoes fired from an npc station with 2 deadspace shield booster and speedtank with afterburner. Than suddenly station just webs it down and one torpedo instapopped it. And note that while torpedo hitting, cerberus still going at some 200+ m/s of speed after the web. Imagine the situation in your mind and compare speed/sigradius of cerberus and your battleships.
Pantload Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2009.11.12 15:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 12/11/2009 14:38:11 Originally by: Ranscrip stuff ... Faction fitting solo guys like you with their multiple alt chars ruin the game, imho. But oh well, this is just my opinion. Wish you all the worst with your undertaking. TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.12 16:10:00 - [11] Originally by: ONLYDEADCAN SEE ... smartbombs etc....Also remind that repair drones are not efficient as logistic ships..... Thanks for the reply! That's very useful information; smartbombs would ruin repair drones. I would use a logistics ship, but i am just trying to utilize the ships available to me. With a battleship tank, I wouldn't factor in sig; I would assume maximum damage. Citadels aren't extreme DPS, but could be difficult if a large volley was released. Any recommended setups for 3 ships? Is there any way 3 battleships could run a plex safely (pirates not taken into account) & efficiently?
Le Chevalier	Posted - 2009.11.12 21:58:00 - [12] Just a thought, are there heavy neut towers in your lvl 10 complex? We run nighthawk in lvl 5 missions because of the completely passive tank. If your cap disappears in 30 seconds because of neuts things could get ugly quickly.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2009.11.13 00:54:00 - [13] Stop being an idiot and train your alt army into logistics ships. 6 repper drones aren't going to do jack s**t. Local tanking won't tank a 10/10, but I will be glad to go with you to scoop the faction loot after you are instapopped. You need a HAC/CS with extreme resists + buffer, and a logistics pilot.
DeputyFruitfly	Posted - 2009.11.13 02:05:00 - [14] As you get more experienced, you may find that the question really isn't "can it be solo'd?", but rather "what's the minimum number required to finish this efficiently?". Ishtars, for example, can solo many of the harder plexes. But only by spending 6 hours to kill everything. Inefficient, in terms of isk/hr. If you can solo 1 plex in the time that 2 can do 3 plexes, then you're effing yourself over.
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.13 02:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Le Chevalier Just a thought, are there heavy neut towers in your lvl 10 complex? We run nighthawk in lvl 5 missions because of the completely passive tank. If your cap disappears in 30 seconds because of neuts things could get ugly quickly. Yeah, that's some of the information I'm looking for. Obviously I have not run level 10 complexes, so I don't know what to expect. If there are generally only a few neutralizers, it wouldn't be bad because I could take care of them fairly quick. If there's a pile of them, a passive or remote rep tank is almost necessary. Does anyone have any real numbers on DPS and electronic warfare? All I want to know is how much repair is needed at what amount of resists, and I'd like to know what type of ewar to expect (target jamming, neutralizers, etc. as well as quantity). Thanks to everyone so far for all the constructive posts.
bnogo Caldari Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2009.11.13 07:15:00 - [16] ok simply put, you will die. the 10/10 plexes that launch those citadels instapop every bs that i have ever heard of. the only effective tactic i have heard of is a hac afterburning around to tank the damage. low sig + high resists = win. plus most of them have multiple spawns, so your ravens will get aggroed you will not get reliable info until you run them as numbers go because we who run them want people like you to die and leave us the plex :)
DeputyFruitfly	Posted - 2009.11.13 07:42:00 - [17] Edited by: DeputyFruitfly on 13/11/2009 07:42:35 Originally by: bnogo Melodramatic talk that ends up not too far from the right idea snipped Inty that's cap stable with mwd and shield/armor rep running @ large orbit around station. 2x 200km snipe bs, which cloak on new spawn so the inty gets the aggro. Done. More snipe dps makes it faster, but 2 are sufficient. There are other ways, but that's def a good one.
Higgs Foton Scoopex Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.11.13 09:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Ranscrip Edited by: Ranscrip on 12/11/2009 16:48:07 With a battleship tank, I wouldn't factor in sig; I would assume maximum damage. Citadels aren't extreme DPS, but could be difficult if a large volley was released. HAHAHAHA Never done a lvl 10 havent you? There isn't a volley. There is only one. And that one does 180.000 damage. that is onehundredandeightythousand damage hitting you in one blow. That is about three time the amount of a titan doomsday. The only way to survive this is speedtanking with a low sig ship. In some 10/10 plexes this won't even work. In the Maze (Guristas 10/10 plex) you'll land right on top of 6 statis towers. The way we do it is by warping in a hevay interdictor with as high resists as possible, to draw aggro, and getting logistic ships with shield reppers on him ASAP. ___________________________________ Ducttape > steel
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.13 11:53:00 - [19] Originally by: DeputyFruitfly Edited by: DeputyFruitfly on 13/11/2009 07:42:35 Originally by: bnogo Melodramatic talk that ends up not too far from the right idea snipped Inty that's cap stable with mwd and shield/armor rep running @ large orbit around station. 2x 200km snipe bs, which cloak on new spawn so the inty gets the aggro. Done. More snipe dps makes it faster, but 2 are sufficient. There are other ways, but that's def a good one. That seems like a good idea. Perhaps I'll train my apoc pilot towards an inty; that would save me a lot of money anyhow... i just wont be able to salvage. two cruise ravens should be ok for sniping or am i wrong?
Forranz The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.11.13 12:54:00 - [20] Kinda shocked nobody else caught this.. 6 Repair Drones.. can your two alts not use 5 drones each? Two cruise ravens are not a lot of dps as well..
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.13 13:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Ranscrip on 13/11/2009 13:22:09 Originally by: Forranz Kinda shocked nobody else caught this.. 6 Repair Drones.. can your two alts not use 5 drones each? Two cruise ravens are not a lot of dps as well.. Repair drones require lvl 5 drones & associated skills. 3 heavy's actually repairs more than 5 mediums (and the raven only has room for 3 heavys) Yeah, if i need 200k range though, torps are out of the question. The farthest I can get a siege is 60km. It would almost double the DPS though. Any sniper ship wont have much more DPS than cruise either; snipers just have low DPS. Maybe i should have 1 cruise raven and 1 torp raven? BTW, since energy neuts will turn MWD off, is 550m/s fast enough to withstand the citadel?
ropnes	Posted - 2009.11.13 13:42:00 - [22] Are you not reading? Dump the Raven Have fun flying it through 0.0 just getting to the plex
Thenoran Caldari Pelican.	Posted - 2009.11.13 13:45:00 - [23] Get rid of the Ravens. HACs, Logistics, Heavy Interdictors and Command Ships are the only real choice. They have the needed resists, sig and mobility you will need just to stay in one piece. I'll also assume you'll need a racial ship to match the resist the torpedo hits. So if you're facing a 180k EM damage torp, bring the Broadsword, not the Onyx. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
DeputyFruitfly	Posted - 2009.11.13 17:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Ranscrip Originally by: DeputyFruitfly Edited by: DeputyFruitfly on 13/11/2009 07:42:35 Originally by: bnogo Melodramatic talk that ends up not too far from the right idea snipped Inty that's cap stable with mwd and shield/armor rep running @ large orbit around station. 2x 200km snipe bs, which cloak on new spawn so the inty gets the aggro. Done. More snipe dps makes it faster, but 2 are sufficient. There are other ways, but that's def a good one. That seems like a good idea. I was talking about for 1 particular plex, actually (but one that I get regularly). I wouldn't use that advice with any other plex. But for that 1 particular plex I had in mind, ravens are fine as the snipes. For the most part, commandships/hics/logi are the way to go. Doesn't really matter, though. You're likely to do whatever you want, then die, then cry bitter tears, wondering why no-one tried to help you.
Ranscrip	Posted - 2009.11.13 18:22:00 - [25] Originally by: DeputyFruitfly Doesn't really matter, though. You're likely to do whatever you want, then die, then cry bitter tears, wondering why no-one tried to help you. Why do you say that?
Kva Plexcha Gallente Doing You Right	Posted - 2009.11.13 22:05:00 - [26] Hmm since this is sorta on topic - If I was flying a HAC in "The Maze", can anyone tell me what the Citadel Torp would hit me for in actual damage? My speed would be roughly 743 m/s (unwebbed) My resists EM/Therm/Kin/Ex 65.2 - 75 - 90.6 - 68.8 My sig radius would be 178.44 m2 I have 1523 shield HP and 2448 Armor HP with 50% EM resist. Also, did I read it right that there are 6 Stasis Tower that aggro immediately upon warpin? Thanks in advance, and also it would be appreciated if it was explained exactly how I can calculate potential damage.
GudsGutt	Posted - 2009.11.14 05:22:00 - [27] Edited by: GudsGutt on 14/11/2009 05:24:00 Yes, you will die. Get better resists. 65% ain't nearly enough.
Leanne Pausic	Posted - 2009.11.14 06:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Kva Plexcha Hmm since this is sorta on topic - If I was flying a HAC in "The Maze", can anyone tell me what the Citadel Torp would hit me for in actual damage? My speed would be roughly 743 m/s (unwebbed) My resists EM/Therm/Kin/Ex 65.2 - 75 - 90.6 - 68.8 My sig radius would be 178.44 m2 I have 1523 shield HP and 2448 Armor HP with 50% EM resist. Also, did I read it right that there are 6 Stasis Tower that aggro immediately upon warpin? Thanks in advance, and also it would be appreciated if it was explained exactly how I can calculate potential damage. i have done this in a dual repping Ishtar, speed tanking. with sentry drones i lose armor to half before repped again. kill small ships with sentries first and you have little trouble
Spectre Wraith Darwin Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.14 11:31:00 - [29] Quote: Any sniper ship wont have much more DPS than cruise either; snipers just have low DPS.
Julepalm	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:09:00 - [30] We do the Angel 7,8 and 10 complexes a lot in our region of space.. We have a usual plex setup off Guardian + Absolution tanking.. and 1 other ship.. usually a long range Raven or a just a battlecruiser transfering energy to keep the guardian going.. (gets return cap from the guardian to remain stable itself) .. this way the absolution tanks very well.. gets armor and cap from the guardian as needed. the 7 and 8 can be done with just the 3 ships easily (command ship, logistics and a bc/bs dps) sometimes the absolution doesnt need the guardian.. The 10/10 we prefer 4-5 people for increased dps.. the faster the better :) The amount of dps just depends on the people online willing to participate..

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