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Riffler
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Posted - 2003.06.24 14:15:00 -
[1]
TTI has recently publically admitted to its business dealings with moo and to having a "non-aggression pact" with this terrorist organisation, and other "pirate" corps. Taggart presents this as a pragmatic response from a position of strength.
Others have chosen to see it as evidence of complicity between Taggart and moo.
One thing should be crystal clear to everyone - it is not evidence of TTI's strength, but of their weakness.
They lack the means and the will to deal with pirates in any way other than bending over and taking it.
I strongly encourage all who want easy loot to target TTI's bloated soon-to-be corpse, for there are easy pickings to be had from this fatted cow.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.06.24 15:37:00 -
[2]
yes master
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poon
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Posted - 2003.06.24 15:40:00 -
[3]
Yes everyone knows TTI are weak and disorganised its just the fact that theres no profit in taking chunks out of TTI atm.
Many corps are unhappy about things regarding this but just because they cant fight their own battles doesnt create a need to kill them all for it.
Give it time and the pirates will start taking them apart, rather not get my hands dirty at present messing about with a need less corp war.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.06.24 15:50:00 -
[4]
I applaud your bravery and courage to stand by your convictions Riffler. There are those who say that EVE is not yet ready for war - and perhaps they are right. But the day will come, and when it comes the thunder that accompanies it will be heard throughout the galaxy, and in its roar will be heard the echo of your noble words.
Credo in Unam Imperium!
A.S.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Ctaesis
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Posted - 2003.06.24 17:01:00 -
[5]
Once again, TTi is not the galactic police force. I believe CONCORD provides that sort of service.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.06.24 22:17:00 -
[6]
.
Edited by: PropanElgen on 24/06/2003 23:04:35
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.24 22:55:00 -
[7]
I think it a bit presumptious to assume a corporation with several different battleship classes in production and over 200 members is "ripe for the picking".
To put this in terms you can understand, your quote "One thing should be crystal clear to everyone - it is not evidence of TTI's strength, but of their weakness." is actually completely incorrect. Since when is it "weak" to NOT waste resources?
Keep this in mind. While TTI did set up a NAP with m0o this was in part because m0o was willing to do so. Both parties see the opportunities a peace can bring each of them. Our corporation continues to earn isk because we aren't fighting a war.
Against a foe who refuses to deal with us in a diplomatic manner the alternative would be "unfortunate". There is something else to consider, it costs alot of isk to create combat characters loaded with the best combat skills (surgical strike, sharpshooter, long range targeting), where do you get this money if your busy fighting some unnecessary war.
Isn't peace ALWAYS a better alternative?
We seek peace because it is good for business. We are willing to enter into NAP's to enhance our business opportunities.
That being said we will also defend ourselves with every resource necessary if needed.
Calladen Nimitz
TTI Executive
(by the way, the "movie" post was very immature)
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 24/06/2003 22:57:42
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Riffler
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Posted - 2003.06.24 23:12:00 -
[8]
How much would it cost TTI to actually protect its industrial ships with combat ships, instead of relying on its reputation to protect them? For too long, many people have ignored unescorted TTI indies, for fear of TTI's response. By demonstrating its spinelessness, TTI has blown its rep, and far more people will be willing to take a pop at those defenseless indies. By bending over for the big boys, TTI faces death by a thousand cuts from small-time pirates.
You might well find that restoring your rep by taking a pop at moo would be cheaper than providing adequate escorts for all your future ops. Bite down hard on that next time you bend over for moo.
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Jack Ryan
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Posted - 2003.06.25 09:21:00 -
[9]
Riffler, what you're saying is you don't like m0o and because you cannot stand up to them yourself you try and "challenge" a bigger organisation to do the work for you?
You handle your business the way you see fit... TTI is no different. Why should we waste time, resources and equipment destroying a pirate corporation with which we can be at peace? To please the players (such as you) that want m0o destroyed?
Basically you're saying: "TTI isn't getting rid of m0o and we can't do it ourselves, let's all punish TTI for it."
Edited by: Jack Ryan on 25/06/2003 09:25:03
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poon
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Posted - 2003.06.25 10:09:00 -
[10]
O_o
Edited by: poon on 25/06/2003 23:19:58
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Josephine
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Posted - 2003.06.25 10:39:00 -
[11]
I thought that was common practice in the large corps, wouldn't that mean they haven't done it so far which would mean they are even more large than most other corps out there. Guess we can divide most other corps out there by 3 then to see real sizes while leaving TTI's numbers around what they are now? I still don't see how this means they are ripe for the picking, assuming 1/4th of them is online at a give time that's still past 50 or so members.... |
poon
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:04:00 -
[12]
Some Corps dont have to use shear numbers to keep the wolf's from their backs.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:08:00 -
[13]
I agree with Jack Ryan, not only has he saved the US president on two non-consecutive occasionas, he has also survived an IRA ambush, and barely escaped a nuclear blast.
After all that, I believe he can probably do whatever he likes.
You can't blame TTI for m0o.
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Jack Ryan
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:16:00 -
[14]
"You can't blame TTI for m0o."
Very well said drunkenmaster.
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loci
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:28:00 -
[15]
any Caldari who exchanges ********* with a pirate ought to be shot..
you are a coward sir
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Byterider
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:42:00 -
[16]
I have a rule:
Never ask anyone to do something you are unwilling to do yourself.
...and since I don't see any of you other corps taking the lead on this and attacking M0o, I don't see how you can demand we do something. It's not our job, deal with it yourself.
You're all like the little loud mouthed kid that hides behind the biggest kid in school saying "My friend is going to beat you up!".
Fight your own fights.
BR
TTI-KME
Edited by: Byterider on 25/06/2003 13:42:02
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Damon Vile
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Posted - 2003.06.25 14:22:00 -
[17]
Any caldari that does charity work would be shot.
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Trinity Eve
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Posted - 2003.06.25 16:36:00 -
[18]
I agree that TTI is ready to be harvested.
They are the biggest corp out there and richest too.
They remind me of Spanish, South American coast during real pirate era.
Paying off pirates without fight helps too.
Soon there will be more pirate corp to be payed.
Gotta love that Adam Smith's capitalism.
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Rocko
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Posted - 2003.06.25 16:38:00 -
[19]
I am Caldari. The Caldari people are built on a society in which the ISK and the Corp are the goal to which we aspire. A Corp that would gladly waste resources and manpower is foolish. TTi has entered into a NAP with m0o...good for them. They have done the Caldari thing and have furthered their business in doing so. Pirate or not it's still a beneficial business practice. Congrats TTi on this business move.
Lieutenant Commander SOG
"Oderint dum metuant" |
Fauder
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:13:00 -
[20]
Well, if it's our moral responsibility to defend others...then I guess it would be your moral responsibility to foot the bill...right?
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:25:00 -
[21]
I can see it now:
TTI has become the slaves of m0o
When that comes to pass do not come running like girly men to this Minmatar. If you don't have the hairy balls to stand up to m0o now I sure has heck aint going to take the chance of getting mine cut off for little girly men like TTI when they are going to need the help getting out from under the slave colar of m0o later.
This is a Caldari Corp? My how the mighty Caldari have fallen. A corp full of girly men Caldari? I didn't think such was possible. That should place you TTI girly Caldari men one step below a slug but still one step above an Amarrian.
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:47:00 -
[22]
I remember hearin of this one time when a man named Neville Chamberlain signed a little thing called the Munich Agreement with another man by the name of Adolf ****** and the **** Party, and last I checked that didn't go very well.
Making agreements with people that obviously lack any sort of moral integrity in the name of peace and prosparity brings neither, in fact it brings the opposite.
You (TTi) say it is not your job to police the galaxy, I say as one of the largest (if not the largest) corporations it is your duty to do what you can. All that is needed is good tactics and proper preperations.
I would like to quote from an ad that Prophet Arames used in one of TTi's own recruitment posts:
"Stand for individualism, capitolism, and the hero that resides in us all"
What kind of hero makes a pact with the most vile scum in the galaxy? Please take your own advice and find the "hero that resides in us all"
Imagine the Americans and British calling up ****** during World War Two and saying, "Hey lets just call this war thing off, its costing us a lot of money, and we know that you're frying people in ovens but hey, we can't buy stuff with people. haha.. and besides (whiney voice) lots of other countries aren't helping us, and we didn't MAKE Germany do all these bad things. So yea.. what do you say ****** old buddy old pal, lest just call this thing off." Now turn America and England into TTi, and **** Germany into M0o, and turn the Jewish people into every other pilot in the galaxy. Yea, TTi is real beacon of greatness...
In response to Byterider, I understand what you're saying and no, TTi should not be the sole fighter in a war with M0o, it is not and never will be soley your responsability, but it should come as no surprise that you would have to take up the reins on any such attempt. Just stand up, ask others to join you, you may be surprised how many people are willing to lose their ships and spend their "precious" ISK to take out M0o along side TTi. I would gladly join you if you were willing to fight.
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 25/06/2003 19:35:01
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:49:00 -
[23]
Calladen Nimitz -
If TTI would like additional military support from our corporation just let me know. I appreciate you joining our little hunting party a few days ago to dispactch a local annoyance. Just say the word and 10 battle hardend pilots in very nicely equiped MoAs will be at your service free of charge.
After all, the fun it would bring would be payment enough. And helping destroy moronic ppl with no long term vision would make us very happy.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Kurupt
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Posted - 2003.06.25 19:16:00 -
[24]
Here are the problems I have with this.
TTI agreed to this NAP even if they do not have any dealing with M0o it will always be thought they do. Now of course none of this could happen but just imagine this. M0o is at war with some corp and this said corp has more resourses then M0o so M0o decides to force or buy allies. For instance they could say, Hey TTI if you don't help us with supplies etc. we will attack your lines 24/7. Even if TTI doesn't support this war or ever do anything to help them there will always be that little thing in the back of everyone's mind that they could. For instance lastnight there was a TTI at a jumpgate along with a M0o person sure he might have had supplied him with info but who knows that he didn't?
Anyways in closing what I think this does it hurt TTI dealings with other corps because they are dealing with pirates. Regardless if it's just to help TTI as a corp. So i suggest TTI thinks hard about this. Also just because there is no NAP doesn't mean TTI has to waste resourses on attacking M0o they will just need to protect there corp from them. |
Gushi
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Posted - 2003.06.25 20:08:00 -
[25]
Maybe just maybe TTI is trading with pirates to gain some insite? From a tactical stand point TTI has the upper hand. How many Corps can say that they have been close enough to mOo to learn some key stratagies and at the same time making Isk hand over fist. This only makes them stronger and if in the future negotiations brake down I'm sure mOo won't be holding the cards.
As for loosing some legitimate customers... mOo looses ships regularly therefore they are regular customers. In this Galaxy ships are lost and ships are built, but not if we all just sit in some astroid field minning ore all day and night.
Take what ya kin... Gives nothin back!!!
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.06.25 20:36:00 -
[26]
"Maybe just maybe TTI is trading with pirates to gain some insite". Yeah, right. And I'm Elvis. Want to hear me sing?
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2003.06.25 22:30:00 -
[27]
Kurupt :
"Here are the problems I have with this.
TTI agreed to this NAP even if they do not have any dealing with M0o it will always be thought they do. Now of course none of this could happen but just imagine this. M0o is at war with some corp and this said corp has more resourses then M0o so M0o decides to force or buy allies. For instance they could say, Hey TTI if you don't help us with supplies etc. we will attack your lines 24/7."
Chain of thought fault. If M0o would be in a war with another superior foe they would not have resources to blackmail anyone to begin with. You don't build alliance networks once the dreck hits the fan, but before.
Kurupt :
"Anyways in closing what I think this does it hurt TTI dealings with other corps because they are dealing with pirates."
I think the key point here lies in _dealing_. There is a problem called pirates, we dealt with it. We chose the least expensive way for us, which also was the least expensive way for M0o. That people seem to have a problem with this isn't really our concern, although I atleast feel they should spend more time wondering about why their own respective corps for the most part just close their eyes and ignore the pirates while they keep doing what they are good at. That Cornexant lost a battleship is sad, but atleast every cornexant member out there can be proud that their corp dealt with the pirates, just as TTI dealt with them aswell. We just chose a different path than cornexant.
Kurupt :
" Regardless if it's just to help TTI as a corp. So i suggest TTI thinks hard about this. Also just because there is no NAP doesn't mean TTI has to waste resourses on attacking M0o they will just need to protect there corp from them."
Which we are doing, and I might add at a lower cost than it would be to mount 20 Moa's online to battle 24/7. The calculation is simple, you start at the time spent per pilot doing battle and subtract that from the hours spent making profits on other fronts.
Letifer Deus :
"Making agreements with people that obviously lack any sort of moral integrity in the name of peace and prosparity brings neither, in fact it brings the opposite.
You (TTi) say it is not your job to police the galaxy, I say as one of the largest (if not the largest) corporations it is your duty to do what you can. All that is needed is good tactics and proper preperations."
We are here to make money. We are here to be filthy rich. We believe in the individual, we believe in capitalism. We aren't the wellfare, we aren't the police, we aren't the galaxy's parents. The assumption on your part that a corp exists to help the needy, to feed the poor, to clean up your mess, to kep you safe and warm, indeed to look after and see to it that society in general has it cozy and nice is not something we agree on. We didn't set it as our goal to become filthy rich in order to spend that wealth on others, it is ours afterall. You should perhaps spend less time complaining about the way we do business which indeed is highly successful I might add and look at what you are doing. That some people might feel more at home in communism is their problem, not ours and frankly we at times question what they are doing here in the first place, this is afterall a great universe of free market economy and very liberal empires, not exactly the state of the world a communist will feel at home in.
Letifer Deus :
"I would like to quote from an ad that Prophet Arames used in one of TTi's own recruitment posts:
"Stand for individualism, capitolism, and the hero that resides in us all"
What kind of hero makes a pact with the most vile scum in the galaxy? Please take your own advice and find the "hero that resides in us all"
I do not think you should call M0o the most vile scum in the galaxy, they are afterall just doing what they feel is the right way for them to do their part, that it isn't what you would hope they do might be true, we dealt with them while you so far have only called them names. Which one do you think is the successful way of doing things?
We have found our hero, we work hard towards our goals and enjoy it, we succeed and prosper, what more could we ask for. Have you found yourself yet, is it indeed this namecalling loudmouth who instead of acting demands action of others without any grounds or reasoning beyond his own gain. Indeed that is a very good point which I'm sure you are delighted to discuss Afterall that is close to what we are doing aswell, we act on our own good as the motive, while you only use the same reason to try to get others to do your bidding. That you are trying to steal and loot what we have made for your own purposes might seem perfectly logical to you behind that veil of morality and duty which you so loudly wave around, but in the end it comes down to you trying to steal and loot what is ours, and in that way you are nothing more than the "most vile scum of the galaxy" that M0o seems to repres
___________________________________
A spring day at the edge of the world.
On the edge of the world once more the day slants.
The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears
Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.25 23:06:00 -
[28]
Ok you elitist group TTI. Just like all elitist groups you say one thing and then do another. The hero in all of you is really a scared little worm. I am really glad that I didn't get accepted into your corp. I for one would not have stood by and allowed a NAP with m0o. You really live in a fantasy world if you think that all the little corps will band together to take out m0o without the support of the larger corps. This is something that has been played out in history time and time again. You at TTI think that you know better and your Socialist Ideals are the best way to do things. TTI says they will only take the best and brightest. Where are your history majors? Or have you all lost sight of the history classes you had since you were 6 years old. The rest of the smaller corps understand that they will be at a disadvantage going into a full scale war with a larger formidable force. Without the help of the larger corps this will never take place. Some people in EVE may not be able to help in the form of fighting but could donate isk for clone replacement and ship replacement. For TTI to sit by and watch others be killed while they have free travel is disgusting. I think that I just spotted their new product line: "TTI Blinders", get them and you too will not have to see what m0o is doing to others. You at TTI have now seen the backlash that you can create. Where are your business majors? Do you think that they should have told you that a corp's reputation can alter business profits. Just look to the real world Martha Stewart for your answer. Where did her stock go?
Anyway this all started with someone not agreeing with a NAP between m0o and TTI. If TTI wants to be the spineless worm in this, then so be it. But TTI don't turn a blind eye and say it was just good for business.............
Also understand that your unescorted Indy's may not be so safe just because you have a NAP with m0o. There are a lot of other pirate groups that will be nipping your heals now that everyone knows you go unescorted through m0o areas.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.26 00:56:00 -
[29]
hey pod people without warning and blatently use, and deny the use of, exploits. I admit they are (in my opinion) the best organized corporations, at least militarily, but no, they are scum, and you did make a pact with scum.
And "Get others to do my bidding"? Where are you comin from here? I'll just have to quote myself in case you somehow missed it in my last post...
"I would gladly join you if you were willing to fight"
Now where in that last line do you get the idea that I'm trying to get others to do my bidding?
And where do you get that I am trying to "steal and loot for my own purposes"? Seriously, what im my post could have possible said to you that I am out to steal your hard erned ships/ISK? I haven't stolen and I have no plans to do so.
You also go on to call me a communist, and state that you are capitalist and in it to be "filthy rich." Well last time I checked America is capitalist and America has fought more wars recently than any other nation.
And in responst to Korupt you use the example of Cornexant, saying:
"That Cornexant lost a battleship is sad, but atleast every cornexant member out there can be proud that their corp dealt with the pirates, just as TTI dealt with them aswell."
Yea, Cornexant loses a battleship, and you sign a cease-fire agreement, that definately leaves your two corps with equal reason for pride.... I think not.
The fact that you have not really rebutted any of my comments, and instead resorted to meaningless attacks on my character means only one of two things:
You know I am Right
You Aren't able to come up with more excuses.
And may I again stress, I do not feel you should have to go in alone, and I completely understand why you would be angry that little people would be standing behind a brick wall yelling "go get 'em TTi!" while they do nothing. And I do feel that noone should have the right to stand up to what you did, unless they themselves are willing to take part in the actions they suggest. I would rather another member of TTi respond to this and my previous post, as you do not seem to have responses with any real substance.
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 26/06/2003 01:29:00
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Kurupt
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Posted - 2003.06.26 01:32:00 -
[30]
Wow thats just plain sad.
Your whole corp is just there to make money. Maybe your the ones on ebay selling all that money.
It's a game and I believe everyone's goal is too have fun? Can you agree with that? Why does having the all mighty isk make your game fun? wow your corp has the most money what are you going to do with it? You claim to have so much but yet will not risk any of it on fighting!
Maybe you should try and look at this as some role playing instead of your greddy wallets. Just think of it this way there is always good and evil and you are either on one side or the other. Sure there are people that will goto the sides that will help them the most but I don't see them going far. Whats my point? The point is that maybe one day all these smaller corps that don't care for your NAP with M0o shall attack you!
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