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Riffler
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Posted - 2003.06.24 14:15:00 -
[1]
TTI has recently publically admitted to its business dealings with moo and to having a "non-aggression pact" with this terrorist organisation, and other "pirate" corps. Taggart presents this as a pragmatic response from a position of strength.
Others have chosen to see it as evidence of complicity between Taggart and moo.
One thing should be crystal clear to everyone - it is not evidence of TTI's strength, but of their weakness.
They lack the means and the will to deal with pirates in any way other than bending over and taking it.
I strongly encourage all who want easy loot to target TTI's bloated soon-to-be corpse, for there are easy pickings to be had from this fatted cow.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.06.24 15:37:00 -
[2]
yes master
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poon
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Posted - 2003.06.24 15:40:00 -
[3]
Yes everyone knows TTI are weak and disorganised its just the fact that theres no profit in taking chunks out of TTI atm.
Many corps are unhappy about things regarding this but just because they cant fight their own battles doesnt create a need to kill them all for it.
Give it time and the pirates will start taking them apart, rather not get my hands dirty at present messing about with a need less corp war.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.06.24 15:50:00 -
[4]
I applaud your bravery and courage to stand by your convictions Riffler. There are those who say that EVE is not yet ready for war - and perhaps they are right. But the day will come, and when it comes the thunder that accompanies it will be heard throughout the galaxy, and in its roar will be heard the echo of your noble words.
Credo in Unam Imperium!
A.S.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Ctaesis
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Posted - 2003.06.24 17:01:00 -
[5]
Once again, TTi is not the galactic police force. I believe CONCORD provides that sort of service.
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.06.24 22:17:00 -
[6]
.
Edited by: PropanElgen on 24/06/2003 23:04:35
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.24 22:55:00 -
[7]
I think it a bit presumptious to assume a corporation with several different battleship classes in production and over 200 members is "ripe for the picking".
To put this in terms you can understand, your quote "One thing should be crystal clear to everyone - it is not evidence of TTI's strength, but of their weakness." is actually completely incorrect. Since when is it "weak" to NOT waste resources?
Keep this in mind. While TTI did set up a NAP with m0o this was in part because m0o was willing to do so. Both parties see the opportunities a peace can bring each of them. Our corporation continues to earn isk because we aren't fighting a war.
Against a foe who refuses to deal with us in a diplomatic manner the alternative would be "unfortunate". There is something else to consider, it costs alot of isk to create combat characters loaded with the best combat skills (surgical strike, sharpshooter, long range targeting), where do you get this money if your busy fighting some unnecessary war.
Isn't peace ALWAYS a better alternative?
We seek peace because it is good for business. We are willing to enter into NAP's to enhance our business opportunities.
That being said we will also defend ourselves with every resource necessary if needed.
Calladen Nimitz
TTI Executive
(by the way, the "movie" post was very immature)
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 24/06/2003 22:57:42
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Riffler
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Posted - 2003.06.24 23:12:00 -
[8]
How much would it cost TTI to actually protect its industrial ships with combat ships, instead of relying on its reputation to protect them? For too long, many people have ignored unescorted TTI indies, for fear of TTI's response. By demonstrating its spinelessness, TTI has blown its rep, and far more people will be willing to take a pop at those defenseless indies. By bending over for the big boys, TTI faces death by a thousand cuts from small-time pirates.
You might well find that restoring your rep by taking a pop at moo would be cheaper than providing adequate escorts for all your future ops. Bite down hard on that next time you bend over for moo.
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Jack Ryan
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Posted - 2003.06.25 09:21:00 -
[9]
Riffler, what you're saying is you don't like m0o and because you cannot stand up to them yourself you try and "challenge" a bigger organisation to do the work for you?
You handle your business the way you see fit... TTI is no different. Why should we waste time, resources and equipment destroying a pirate corporation with which we can be at peace? To please the players (such as you) that want m0o destroyed?
Basically you're saying: "TTI isn't getting rid of m0o and we can't do it ourselves, let's all punish TTI for it."
Edited by: Jack Ryan on 25/06/2003 09:25:03
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poon
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Posted - 2003.06.25 10:09:00 -
[10]
O_o
Edited by: poon on 25/06/2003 23:19:58
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Josephine
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Posted - 2003.06.25 10:39:00 -
[11]
I thought that was common practice in the large corps, wouldn't that mean they haven't done it so far which would mean they are even more large than most other corps out there. Guess we can divide most other corps out there by 3 then to see real sizes while leaving TTI's numbers around what they are now? I still don't see how this means they are ripe for the picking, assuming 1/4th of them is online at a give time that's still past 50 or so members.... |
poon
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:04:00 -
[12]
Some Corps dont have to use shear numbers to keep the wolf's from their backs.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:08:00 -
[13]
I agree with Jack Ryan, not only has he saved the US president on two non-consecutive occasionas, he has also survived an IRA ambush, and barely escaped a nuclear blast.
After all that, I believe he can probably do whatever he likes.
You can't blame TTI for m0o.
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Jack Ryan
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:16:00 -
[14]
"You can't blame TTI for m0o."
Very well said drunkenmaster.
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loci
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:28:00 -
[15]
any Caldari who exchanges ********* with a pirate ought to be shot..
you are a coward sir
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Byterider
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:42:00 -
[16]
I have a rule:
Never ask anyone to do something you are unwilling to do yourself.
...and since I don't see any of you other corps taking the lead on this and attacking M0o, I don't see how you can demand we do something. It's not our job, deal with it yourself.
You're all like the little loud mouthed kid that hides behind the biggest kid in school saying "My friend is going to beat you up!".
Fight your own fights.
BR
TTI-KME
Edited by: Byterider on 25/06/2003 13:42:02
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Damon Vile
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Posted - 2003.06.25 14:22:00 -
[17]
Any caldari that does charity work would be shot.
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Trinity Eve
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Posted - 2003.06.25 16:36:00 -
[18]
I agree that TTI is ready to be harvested.
They are the biggest corp out there and richest too.
They remind me of Spanish, South American coast during real pirate era.
Paying off pirates without fight helps too.
Soon there will be more pirate corp to be payed.
Gotta love that Adam Smith's capitalism.
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Rocko
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Posted - 2003.06.25 16:38:00 -
[19]
I am Caldari. The Caldari people are built on a society in which the ISK and the Corp are the goal to which we aspire. A Corp that would gladly waste resources and manpower is foolish. TTi has entered into a NAP with m0o...good for them. They have done the Caldari thing and have furthered their business in doing so. Pirate or not it's still a beneficial business practice. Congrats TTi on this business move.
Lieutenant Commander SOG
"Oderint dum metuant" |
Fauder
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:13:00 -
[20]
Well, if it's our moral responsibility to defend others...then I guess it would be your moral responsibility to foot the bill...right?
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:25:00 -
[21]
I can see it now:
TTI has become the slaves of m0o
When that comes to pass do not come running like girly men to this Minmatar. If you don't have the hairy balls to stand up to m0o now I sure has heck aint going to take the chance of getting mine cut off for little girly men like TTI when they are going to need the help getting out from under the slave colar of m0o later.
This is a Caldari Corp? My how the mighty Caldari have fallen. A corp full of girly men Caldari? I didn't think such was possible. That should place you TTI girly Caldari men one step below a slug but still one step above an Amarrian.
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:47:00 -
[22]
I remember hearin of this one time when a man named Neville Chamberlain signed a little thing called the Munich Agreement with another man by the name of Adolf ****** and the **** Party, and last I checked that didn't go very well.
Making agreements with people that obviously lack any sort of moral integrity in the name of peace and prosparity brings neither, in fact it brings the opposite.
You (TTi) say it is not your job to police the galaxy, I say as one of the largest (if not the largest) corporations it is your duty to do what you can. All that is needed is good tactics and proper preperations.
I would like to quote from an ad that Prophet Arames used in one of TTi's own recruitment posts:
"Stand for individualism, capitolism, and the hero that resides in us all"
What kind of hero makes a pact with the most vile scum in the galaxy? Please take your own advice and find the "hero that resides in us all"
Imagine the Americans and British calling up ****** during World War Two and saying, "Hey lets just call this war thing off, its costing us a lot of money, and we know that you're frying people in ovens but hey, we can't buy stuff with people. haha.. and besides (whiney voice) lots of other countries aren't helping us, and we didn't MAKE Germany do all these bad things. So yea.. what do you say ****** old buddy old pal, lest just call this thing off." Now turn America and England into TTi, and **** Germany into M0o, and turn the Jewish people into every other pilot in the galaxy. Yea, TTi is real beacon of greatness...
In response to Byterider, I understand what you're saying and no, TTi should not be the sole fighter in a war with M0o, it is not and never will be soley your responsability, but it should come as no surprise that you would have to take up the reins on any such attempt. Just stand up, ask others to join you, you may be surprised how many people are willing to lose their ships and spend their "precious" ISK to take out M0o along side TTi. I would gladly join you if you were willing to fight.
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 25/06/2003 19:35:01
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:49:00 -
[23]
Calladen Nimitz -
If TTI would like additional military support from our corporation just let me know. I appreciate you joining our little hunting party a few days ago to dispactch a local annoyance. Just say the word and 10 battle hardend pilots in very nicely equiped MoAs will be at your service free of charge.
After all, the fun it would bring would be payment enough. And helping destroy moronic ppl with no long term vision would make us very happy.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Kurupt
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Posted - 2003.06.25 19:16:00 -
[24]
Here are the problems I have with this.
TTI agreed to this NAP even if they do not have any dealing with M0o it will always be thought they do. Now of course none of this could happen but just imagine this. M0o is at war with some corp and this said corp has more resourses then M0o so M0o decides to force or buy allies. For instance they could say, Hey TTI if you don't help us with supplies etc. we will attack your lines 24/7. Even if TTI doesn't support this war or ever do anything to help them there will always be that little thing in the back of everyone's mind that they could. For instance lastnight there was a TTI at a jumpgate along with a M0o person sure he might have had supplied him with info but who knows that he didn't?
Anyways in closing what I think this does it hurt TTI dealings with other corps because they are dealing with pirates. Regardless if it's just to help TTI as a corp. So i suggest TTI thinks hard about this. Also just because there is no NAP doesn't mean TTI has to waste resourses on attacking M0o they will just need to protect there corp from them. |
Gushi
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Posted - 2003.06.25 20:08:00 -
[25]
Maybe just maybe TTI is trading with pirates to gain some insite? From a tactical stand point TTI has the upper hand. How many Corps can say that they have been close enough to mOo to learn some key stratagies and at the same time making Isk hand over fist. This only makes them stronger and if in the future negotiations brake down I'm sure mOo won't be holding the cards.
As for loosing some legitimate customers... mOo looses ships regularly therefore they are regular customers. In this Galaxy ships are lost and ships are built, but not if we all just sit in some astroid field minning ore all day and night.
Take what ya kin... Gives nothin back!!!
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.06.25 20:36:00 -
[26]
"Maybe just maybe TTI is trading with pirates to gain some insite". Yeah, right. And I'm Elvis. Want to hear me sing?
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2003.06.25 22:30:00 -
[27]
Kurupt :
"Here are the problems I have with this.
TTI agreed to this NAP even if they do not have any dealing with M0o it will always be thought they do. Now of course none of this could happen but just imagine this. M0o is at war with some corp and this said corp has more resourses then M0o so M0o decides to force or buy allies. For instance they could say, Hey TTI if you don't help us with supplies etc. we will attack your lines 24/7."
Chain of thought fault. If M0o would be in a war with another superior foe they would not have resources to blackmail anyone to begin with. You don't build alliance networks once the dreck hits the fan, but before.
Kurupt :
"Anyways in closing what I think this does it hurt TTI dealings with other corps because they are dealing with pirates."
I think the key point here lies in _dealing_. There is a problem called pirates, we dealt with it. We chose the least expensive way for us, which also was the least expensive way for M0o. That people seem to have a problem with this isn't really our concern, although I atleast feel they should spend more time wondering about why their own respective corps for the most part just close their eyes and ignore the pirates while they keep doing what they are good at. That Cornexant lost a battleship is sad, but atleast every cornexant member out there can be proud that their corp dealt with the pirates, just as TTI dealt with them aswell. We just chose a different path than cornexant.
Kurupt :
" Regardless if it's just to help TTI as a corp. So i suggest TTI thinks hard about this. Also just because there is no NAP doesn't mean TTI has to waste resourses on attacking M0o they will just need to protect there corp from them."
Which we are doing, and I might add at a lower cost than it would be to mount 20 Moa's online to battle 24/7. The calculation is simple, you start at the time spent per pilot doing battle and subtract that from the hours spent making profits on other fronts.
Letifer Deus :
"Making agreements with people that obviously lack any sort of moral integrity in the name of peace and prosparity brings neither, in fact it brings the opposite.
You (TTi) say it is not your job to police the galaxy, I say as one of the largest (if not the largest) corporations it is your duty to do what you can. All that is needed is good tactics and proper preperations."
We are here to make money. We are here to be filthy rich. We believe in the individual, we believe in capitalism. We aren't the wellfare, we aren't the police, we aren't the galaxy's parents. The assumption on your part that a corp exists to help the needy, to feed the poor, to clean up your mess, to kep you safe and warm, indeed to look after and see to it that society in general has it cozy and nice is not something we agree on. We didn't set it as our goal to become filthy rich in order to spend that wealth on others, it is ours afterall. You should perhaps spend less time complaining about the way we do business which indeed is highly successful I might add and look at what you are doing. That some people might feel more at home in communism is their problem, not ours and frankly we at times question what they are doing here in the first place, this is afterall a great universe of free market economy and very liberal empires, not exactly the state of the world a communist will feel at home in.
Letifer Deus :
"I would like to quote from an ad that Prophet Arames used in one of TTi's own recruitment posts:
"Stand for individualism, capitolism, and the hero that resides in us all"
What kind of hero makes a pact with the most vile scum in the galaxy? Please take your own advice and find the "hero that resides in us all"
I do not think you should call M0o the most vile scum in the galaxy, they are afterall just doing what they feel is the right way for them to do their part, that it isn't what you would hope they do might be true, we dealt with them while you so far have only called them names. Which one do you think is the successful way of doing things?
We have found our hero, we work hard towards our goals and enjoy it, we succeed and prosper, what more could we ask for. Have you found yourself yet, is it indeed this namecalling loudmouth who instead of acting demands action of others without any grounds or reasoning beyond his own gain. Indeed that is a very good point which I'm sure you are delighted to discuss Afterall that is close to what we are doing aswell, we act on our own good as the motive, while you only use the same reason to try to get others to do your bidding. That you are trying to steal and loot what we have made for your own purposes might seem perfectly logical to you behind that veil of morality and duty which you so loudly wave around, but in the end it comes down to you trying to steal and loot what is ours, and in that way you are nothing more than the "most vile scum of the galaxy" that M0o seems to repres
___________________________________
A spring day at the edge of the world.
On the edge of the world once more the day slants.
The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears
Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.25 23:06:00 -
[28]
Ok you elitist group TTI. Just like all elitist groups you say one thing and then do another. The hero in all of you is really a scared little worm. I am really glad that I didn't get accepted into your corp. I for one would not have stood by and allowed a NAP with m0o. You really live in a fantasy world if you think that all the little corps will band together to take out m0o without the support of the larger corps. This is something that has been played out in history time and time again. You at TTI think that you know better and your Socialist Ideals are the best way to do things. TTI says they will only take the best and brightest. Where are your history majors? Or have you all lost sight of the history classes you had since you were 6 years old. The rest of the smaller corps understand that they will be at a disadvantage going into a full scale war with a larger formidable force. Without the help of the larger corps this will never take place. Some people in EVE may not be able to help in the form of fighting but could donate isk for clone replacement and ship replacement. For TTI to sit by and watch others be killed while they have free travel is disgusting. I think that I just spotted their new product line: "TTI Blinders", get them and you too will not have to see what m0o is doing to others. You at TTI have now seen the backlash that you can create. Where are your business majors? Do you think that they should have told you that a corp's reputation can alter business profits. Just look to the real world Martha Stewart for your answer. Where did her stock go?
Anyway this all started with someone not agreeing with a NAP between m0o and TTI. If TTI wants to be the spineless worm in this, then so be it. But TTI don't turn a blind eye and say it was just good for business.............
Also understand that your unescorted Indy's may not be so safe just because you have a NAP with m0o. There are a lot of other pirate groups that will be nipping your heals now that everyone knows you go unescorted through m0o areas.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.26 00:56:00 -
[29]
hey pod people without warning and blatently use, and deny the use of, exploits. I admit they are (in my opinion) the best organized corporations, at least militarily, but no, they are scum, and you did make a pact with scum.
And "Get others to do my bidding"? Where are you comin from here? I'll just have to quote myself in case you somehow missed it in my last post...
"I would gladly join you if you were willing to fight"
Now where in that last line do you get the idea that I'm trying to get others to do my bidding?
And where do you get that I am trying to "steal and loot for my own purposes"? Seriously, what im my post could have possible said to you that I am out to steal your hard erned ships/ISK? I haven't stolen and I have no plans to do so.
You also go on to call me a communist, and state that you are capitalist and in it to be "filthy rich." Well last time I checked America is capitalist and America has fought more wars recently than any other nation.
And in responst to Korupt you use the example of Cornexant, saying:
"That Cornexant lost a battleship is sad, but atleast every cornexant member out there can be proud that their corp dealt with the pirates, just as TTI dealt with them aswell."
Yea, Cornexant loses a battleship, and you sign a cease-fire agreement, that definately leaves your two corps with equal reason for pride.... I think not.
The fact that you have not really rebutted any of my comments, and instead resorted to meaningless attacks on my character means only one of two things:
You know I am Right
You Aren't able to come up with more excuses.
And may I again stress, I do not feel you should have to go in alone, and I completely understand why you would be angry that little people would be standing behind a brick wall yelling "go get 'em TTi!" while they do nothing. And I do feel that noone should have the right to stand up to what you did, unless they themselves are willing to take part in the actions they suggest. I would rather another member of TTi respond to this and my previous post, as you do not seem to have responses with any real substance.
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 26/06/2003 01:29:00
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Kurupt
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Posted - 2003.06.26 01:32:00 -
[30]
Wow thats just plain sad.
Your whole corp is just there to make money. Maybe your the ones on ebay selling all that money.
It's a game and I believe everyone's goal is too have fun? Can you agree with that? Why does having the all mighty isk make your game fun? wow your corp has the most money what are you going to do with it? You claim to have so much but yet will not risk any of it on fighting!
Maybe you should try and look at this as some role playing instead of your greddy wallets. Just think of it this way there is always good and evil and you are either on one side or the other. Sure there are people that will goto the sides that will help them the most but I don't see them going far. Whats my point? The point is that maybe one day all these smaller corps that don't care for your NAP with M0o shall attack you!
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.26 03:03:00 -
[31]
"It's a game and I believe everyone's goal is too have fun? Can you agree with that? Why does having the all mighty isk make your game fun? wow your corp has the most money what are you going to do with it? You claim to have so much but yet will not risk any of it on fighting!"
Well, if thats how we have fun so be it. We're not affecting YOUR gameplay at all buy making isk. If we like to make money and thats "fun" for us why should you care?
By the way, as long as the way you make money doesn't affect anyone else's gameplay I have no problem with you at all.
Calladen Nimitz
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Charlatan
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Posted - 2003.06.26 04:45:00 -
[32]
Some good points here. In this game isk is simply a means to an end. And that ultimate end is getting out there with our cool toys and shooting each other. After all, what's the point of a massively multiplayer space game without massive multiplayer space combat? Ultimately I think the TTi model breaks down because even though though they have some cool toys they aren't willing to use them.
Hell, my corp is about 25 people atm and we've had a lot of fun tracking down PC pirates when we can. I think the large corps who keep saying PvP is pointless are missing the entire point of the game.
Edited by: Charlatan on 26/06/2003 04:45:59 |
Derek
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Posted - 2003.06.26 04:58:00 -
[33]
"I think the large corps who keep saying PvP is pointless are missing the entire point of the game."
We never said it was useless. We chose this route for our reasons that include not getting into an all out war. We have used our ships for combat many times. To fight every pirate in the universe would take more resources than any corp has.
I wish everyone would just let it drop to be honest. I have never in the history of this game seen more press over the signing of a simple NAP agreement.
_______________________________________________2005.05.02 03:56:57combatYour Mega Pulse Laser II perfectly strikes Sansha's Battletower, wrecking for 1190.5 damage._ |
Elithiomel
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Posted - 2003.06.26 06:43:00 -
[34]
post removed.
apologies for losing my temper.
this was an ill advised statement and will not happen again.
Edited by: Elithiomel on 26/06/2003 10:48:06
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Engineers motto; If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway. |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.26 06:50:00 -
[35]
We have an NAP.
Its our business and in out best interest.
We enjoy making money in the game.
None of these things affect anyone else so perhaps someone could explain all the criticism and complaints here? I mean we've gone out of our way to NOT criticize the way other people do business yet we're being dumped on royally here. We mind our own business. If you want to be a communist, a socialist, a democracy, a capitalist company, go for it, its no ones business but your own. I could care less.
Maybe people who live in glass houses........ oh well.
Calladen Nimitz
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Prada
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Posted - 2003.06.26 09:18:00 -
[36]
This game is emulating real life to some degree IMHO.
Large corporations put in a lot of money towards "unprofitable" ventures in order to keep their potential customers happy. Society demands that corporations do so, and corporations *usually* oblige in varying degrees of willingness.
TTI does not have to handle the m0o situation. But if they did, I'm sure TTI would earn the praise and respect of a lot of their fellow players. As it stands, TTI has taken the cowardly, albeit profitable, way out, and thus is earning the scorn of their fellow players.
I'm not saying what TTI is doing is right or wrong, because frankly, it's neither, but don't tell me you are so stupid that you didn't see this sort of response from the players coming?
Rocky - you are absolutely right that this is properly role-playing a Caldari corp. But quite frankly, what % of the Eve population do you think really cares about role-playing? They want to have fun. m0o is preventing them from having fun. They can't deal with m0o, so they want someone who can (i.e. TTI) to do so.
Edited by: Prada on 26/06/2003 09:21:34
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Yoshokun
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Posted - 2003.06.26 13:23:00 -
[37]
In reply to comments stating that the smaller corporations will not band together without the guidance of a larger corporation, I have two words for you: The Entente. It worked. Read back on the old forums and get your fill of EVE Beta history.
TTI was small once too.
EVE history also shows that those who spend more time on the forums whining about the situation in-game wind up losing when up against those who dedicate their time to suceeding. Instead of making boastful and delusional claims that TTI is ripe for the picking, perhaps you should spend that energy on getting a good ship, networking with some other corps, and making an attack on a "tolled" jumpgate.
But, then again, that would require action. Just keep complaining on the forums, it feels so much better, eh?
Edited by: Yoshokun on 26/06/2003 13:26:49
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2003.06.26 14:38:00 -
[38]
This all makes me laugh!! I am a lone fighter in a huge universe and I am scared of nobody. I meet the MOO I deal with the MOO(or run like a chicken if they are too hard!!). I don't worry about the NAP that TTI have agreed with them it is astute business sense if you ask me. Why have to worry about getting your hard earned gear pillaged by them if you can work under them. As for the analogy of the WW2, my god get a grip this is fantasy and that was really bad part of history!! So less of the moaning and more of the dealing with it either put up or shut up!!
Can I also put a note out to either TTI or the MOO, I am not one to site quietly and want to crate myself a reputation be it good or bad. I only fly a Merlin at the moment but will be moving on to bigger and better things, so MOO or TTI come look me up its not all hype I am the dog's Bollards!!
"Its is the wise man that says, but the motivated that make it happen!"
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Kit SummerIsle
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Posted - 2003.06.26 15:17:00 -
[39]
Pychian Vanervi you are dog balls? Do you get licked alot?
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Cptmorgan
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Posted - 2003.06.26 15:45:00 -
[40]
Um... one thing is making me scratch my head here. Ok, all the new people and small corperations are complaining that the TTI won't join the war. Ok, fair enough. They are complaining that they need a mega corp to help them. Ok, fair enough. So you are telling me that throughout the whole game of eve TTI is the ONLY mega corp out there? I don't seem to see anyone looking for an alternative. So TTI didn't join the fight. Hey, their choice. I don't see any other 'Moral High ground' Mega corp's stepping up in their wake.
So maybe all you guys should spend less time complaining about what TTI did or didn't do, and spend more time finding someone else to save your sorry tail ends.
na, that would be too easy LOL
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.26 18:25:00 -
[41]
For those that posted and did not understand what I was trying to state, let me make it a little more basic. I did not say that TTI had to get involved, what I was trying to get accross was that if a larger corp (TTI or whomever) does not take a stand and gather the press about that stand, the smaller corps will not join together to fight m0o. The samller corps could do that but without the beacon of a larger corp leading the cause it most likely will not happen any time soon. The history leason for all of you that don't think it means anything is very important. This is how we base how groups will interact with each other, not just here but in real life also. So take the leason from history and learn from it. THe more you understand it the better your understanding of this game will be. As for TTI they can do whatever they want. But they must understand that their call to arms (in the future they will sooner or later) may not be met by many that would have earlier. Your diplomatic wing or your corp needs to review what history teaches. React too fast and you may not get the support you need. React too slow and the same will happen. TTI really could not take m0o out on their own right now anyway (no matter what boastful comments are made). I think that we can just put TTI in the wanna-be uber corp section of the game. They just want bragging rights. Do you really think that in history, if the Azores tried to band a coalition against the Germans anything would have really happened? It took the major powers joining together to garner all the smaller countries together. If you want to be a big corp you really need to understand that what you say and do is going to be put under a microscope. You may say that its unfair (wimper) and you shouldn't have too, its going to happen and you really need to understand that. A lot of smaller corps look to the larger ones (even if they don't realize it) for how things should be done. Its human nature to do so. So if you don't want to be involved in the multi player part of EVE then have CCP set-up a separate server for you to just run your corp away from the rest of us. The US used to be like that. Isolationist, you want people to buy your stuff but you want that to be the end of you involvement. Put that on your web page too. I'm not crying about you not taking the stand I just think that its funny that you don't understand the way that groups interact well enough to say that I am right. I don't even have any contact with your corp or m0o. I have never bought anything from one of your traders or even my ships (I didn't see the corp symbol TTI on any of the people's info that I purchased my ships from). I will leave you with this TTI; know that you are always going to be high profile in everything you do, and don't whine when you are the topic of a critical discusion. Damned if you and Dammed if you don't.................
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Cptmorgan
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Posted - 2003.06.26 20:38:00 -
[42]
Acix, I respect what you say.
Well, seems everyone here loves a good history debate. Ok, here is one for ya. American Revolution. Who won? The big bad mother country or the Underdog? You all seem stuck on the WW2 theme, yet you kinda forget to look at the rest of history! There are more than enough references to where the underdog won.
As per TTI becoming like America was, well ya they could be going that way. Look at the other side of the coin though. They could become what America is concidered to be now. Everyone would be sitting around complaining about how TTI get's involved in their polocy's and their disputes without thier permision. They will be the big bad corperation that want's its hand in every pot. When you said 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' you hit the nail right on the head.
I was thinking about joining a corp and TTI was looking very interesting. I am going to hold off now from joining any corp. Mainly because I don't want to join one , then have my actions dictated by people OUTSIDE the corperation for the purpose of THEIR needs and not in the interest of My corporation OR me.
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.06.26 20:46:00 -
[43]
Dang Cptmorgan you done stepped into this one.
Another history lesson for ya. Who was allied to the American Rebels during the revolution? The French. Who kept the British busy in Europe watching their backsides during the revolution? The French. Who caused the British to finally give up because they could not supply their troops in the colonies? The French. Do you see a pattern? The little guys won because they had a big buddy guarding their backs.
I hate to say it, but without the help of The French the United States would not exist.
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.27 00:50:00 -
[44]
First off, all the people that called TTI an elitist organization is exactly right.
Second, any corporation that would make a NAP with MOO at this stage in the game is dishonorable. After the despicable tactics of podding newbs were used, it should be pretty self explanatory that they cannot be trusted.
My opinion on the whole thing is to let TTI continue how they want. Moo is just giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.
I've seen it happen in other games before, and trust me its only a matter of time before TTI is full of Moo moles and will suddenly find itself with a big thorn in their ass.
If you make deals with the devil, dont expect to win.......
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 00:55:00 -
[45]
Apparently, no one here has read Atlas Shrugged.
Do so, then you can complain.
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.27 01:13:00 -
[46]
I guess you never read The Tick #1. Read it then laugh.........
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 01:39:00 -
[47]
Touche.
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Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.27 06:50:00 -
[48]
My god, you guys in TTI are such a bunch of eliteist homo's its not even funny. What is funny is how you have decided to pick and choose from Ayn Rand's philosophical viewpoint.
Let me define it for you...."The primary virtues of the objectivist ethics are rationality, independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, trade, and pride."
So explain to me which of these your NAP with Moo embodies? Justice, i think not. Pride....again, no. Integrity, LOL. Wait maybe its rationality.....uh....I heard Moo broke the NAP agreement AGAIN, haha.
Productivity and Trade I can see, but at the cost of all the others?
At least know your own philosophical viewpoint before you wave it in front of the whole freakin world....
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Eidas
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Posted - 2003.06.27 09:29:00 -
[49]
I respect TTI's right to do as they please. They are after all an independent corporation, and answer to nobody. However I would be interested to know if the reason for TTI's NAP with m0o is because m0o were planning to concentrate their attacks on Corporations with the ability to build battleships.
TTI, please tell me that all this hyperbole and rhetoric is not because m0o made you back down. This was a decision based on freedom of choice, yes? Not the result of m0o waving a big stick at you?
Edited by: Eidas on 27/06/2003 09:30:07
Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov |
Selila
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Posted - 2003.06.27 11:16:00 -
[50]
"Apparently, no one here has read Atlas Shrugged."
Most of us have far more sense.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.27 17:34:00 -
[51]
I'm still waiting for Resident Genius Li ShangYin to resond to my last post...
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/06/2003 17:36:09
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 17:35:00 -
[52]
Whether or not you agree or disagree with the viewpoints is inconsequential. It still presents an intriguing philosophy that is being put into practice.
<personal opinion>Virtue... where did you come up with that one? If I were to be virtuous my whole life, I would end up old with nothing around me and all I could say was "I was virtuous."</personal opinion>
Good job.
Edited by: Prophex on 27/06/2003 17:55:34
Edited by: Prophex on 27/06/2003 17:55:47
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.27 17:40:00 -
[53]
Prophet, it is exactly that mentality that brings these comments upon your corporation.
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/06/2003 17:42:28
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:00:00 -
[54]
I think the underlying point here is that law abiding corporations should be hesitant to do business with TTI. We cannot accuse TTI of being pirates because they are at peace with pirates. But because they are unwilling to join the battle against a common enemy, they should not be trusted with your business. TTI is simply selling you goods and watching quietly as the thieves take them from you. That may be a business, but it doesnÆt sound like good business.
Just my opinion, and like @ssh0les, everybody has one.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
Edited by: Heff on 27/06/2003 18:14:41
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Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:03:00 -
[55]
I meant the "read Atlas Shrugged" comment as to get an idea behind what we do, not as a condescending remark. I apologize if it came out that way.
I will no longer comment on these matters, I will merely let my actions speak for me.
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Uncle Enzo
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:21:00 -
[56]
Heff, what have you done to take care of Moo?
Have you attacked them? Organized a fleet? Protected people passing through Passari?
How about you take all those cruiser BPs you are selling and offer free researched copies to any corp that kills a Moo member?
You have the resources to help be part of the solution, rather than just being another complainer asking TTI to do the work on their behalf. Step up to the plate!
Edited by: Uncle Enzo on 27/06/2003 18:22:20 |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:41:00 -
[57]
Auntie Enzo... if you're going to point fingers, please take your glittery nail polish off first and get the facts. My corp did our part to battle Tank CEO and DA Dragons 2 nights ago. Look at the posts. We don't make it a point to hunt pirates, but we stand up and fight when we find them... and we definitely haven't made any pacts with any of them.
As for TTI, if people donÆt like what they are doing, they should stop doing business with them. Now that EVEÆs economy is mostly player driven, everyone together has the power to bring TTI, or any other corporation for that matter, to their knees. If they canÆt sell ships, minerals, or anything else, they will have a big problem making money. But since people are so eager to buy everything they can get their hands on, rarely do they stop and think about where their money is going. Go ahead and buy ships from TTI, or buy your minerals from themà you will only be making the problem worse.
Same goes for my corp -- if you don't like what we are doing, don't do business with us either.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
Edited by: Heff on 27/06/2003 18:43:28
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:50:00 -
[58]
"My corp did our part to battle Tank CEO and DA Dragons 2 nights ago."
FYI TTI was hunting Tank back when your corp was still making frigates. Which is irrelevant - this thread is about Moo, so let's not change the subject to Tank and Dragons, eh?
Have you attacked Moo?
Why do all you people want us to do your dirty work? One or two corps have attacked Moo - kudos to them - but most of you have just complained that we haven't attacked Moo.
Nobody buy Heff's BPs, he hasn't attacked Moo! "Duh"
Pot, kettle, black.
P.S. The BP idea sounds good to me. What BPs do you sell? How many copies will you give to somebody who pods a moo? Maybe you should offer originals for podding Ywev and Zap, they have pretty good ships. Put your money where your mouth is!
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 19:00:57
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Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 19:08:00 -
[59]
"This thread is about moo"... BZZZT! Wrong again Johnny! Look at the title: it's about TTI, and piracy, and the fact that TTI is turning their back on it.
Never mind me and my corp... we don't pretend to be anything we're not and we don't mislead people into believing things that are not true.
In any event... this thread is so beat up you couldn't find the point if it smacked you on the ass. All I see now if the doublespeak I've come to expect from TTI.
.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.27 20:15:00 -
[60]
Prophex, regarding "atlas shrugged". I'm sorry but if your own convictions are not enough and you have to read a book like that to find your way in life you need some self help books too. The book is at its core totally contradictory to itself. You can't just pick and choose philosophy parts and combine them all together. The thing you loose is common sense when you do that. The technical aspects of piece working all of it together makes it more complex then anything else that exists. You start laying down fundamental rules that cannot contradict each other. As time goes on the additions to these guidelines end up reading like a lawyers journal. The complexity it forms in the end bypasses the whole reason it started to begin with. Then add in a little of different peoples understanding and biases and you end with a mound of nothing. The mound is where I see TTI hiding right now. The most primitive solution is more than likely the best in any given situation. Its just finding it that is hard. The common sense look at it would be the pros and con's and what weight they each have. The least bad effects from a decision is not always going to be your path of least resistance. You did right by trying to tell people that you are going to follow guidelines. You just chose the wrong book to follow. If you have ten people read that book you will have ten different takes on the reasoning in it. The author took the easy way of explaining by using a story format. But this in itself leaves it open ended and open to interpretation. Just like another popular book "the bible", and you see what horrors and atrocities have been done in the name of that book. What I really want you to know is that you should have enough confidence in yourself and you corp. mates to make good decisions and not have to do it in the name of some random book. A society that has based its core off of a book has never reached very far in the evolution of man. Some have gone pretty far, but still died out. The only reason that we are at the stage that we are right now is the diversity of independent thinking. Not one book can teach you this. Not even "atlas shrugged"..............................
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.27 20:52:00 -
[61]
"BZZZT! Wrong again Johnny! Look at the title: it's about TTI, and piracy, and the fact that TTI is turning their back on it."
Actually, you are right Heff, the topic was TTI, and people like you yelling at TTI for not attacking Moo.
"Never mind me and my corp... we don't pretend to be anything we're not and we don't mislead people into believing things that are not true."
What has TTI pretended to be that we are not? Show me where TTI said "we will hunt all the galaxy's pirates for you". We never, ever promised to be the galaxy's police. TTI has not misled you. You have misled yourself.
Heff, I ask you again: You seem to care a lot about Moo. If you care so much, why don't YOU do something about them?
We aren't the ones going out yelling at other corps to do something about Moo - you are. Put your blueprints and your company where your mouth is. Hell Heff, I'm just a member of TTI. You are co-ceo of your own company. You have the power to take your company and do something about Moo.
Why don't you do it, instead of yelling at us to do it for you?
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 21:00:03
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Hiro Protagonist
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2003.06.27 20:52:00 -
[62]
"BZZZT! Wrong again Johnny! Look at the title: it's about TTI, and piracy, and the fact that TTI is turning their back on it."
Actually, you are right Heff, the topic was TTI, and people like you yelling at TTI for not attacking Moo.
"Never mind me and my corp... we don't pretend to be anything we're not and we don't mislead people into believing things that are not true."
What has TTI pretended to be that we are not? Show me where TTI said "we will hunt all the galaxy's pirates for you". We never, ever promised to be the galaxy's police. TTI has not misled you. You have misled yourself.
Heff, I ask you again: You seem to care a lot about Moo. If you care so much, why don't YOU do something about them?
We aren't the ones going out yelling at other corps to do something about Moo - you are. Put your blueprints and your company where your mouth is. Hell Heff, I'm just a member of TTI. You are co-ceo of your own company. You have the power to take your company and do something about Moo.
Why don't you do it, instead of yelling at us to do it for you?
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 21:00:03
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:25:00 -
[63]
"""What has TTI pretended to be that we are not? Show me where TTI said "we will hunt all the galaxy's pirates for you". We never, ever promised to be the galaxy's police. TTI has not misled you. You have misled yourself.""""
Hiro, other than the few this wasn't about yelling at TTI. You can do as you please, just trying to let you know the consequenses for turning a blind eye.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Acix
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:25:00 -
[64]
"""What has TTI pretended to be that we are not? Show me where TTI said "we will hunt all the galaxy's pirates for you". We never, ever promised to be the galaxy's police. TTI has not misled you. You have misled yourself.""""
Hiro, other than the few this wasn't about yelling at TTI. You can do as you please, just trying to let you know the consequenses for turning a blind eye.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:38:00 -
[65]
Hiro...there you go again... bending words around. IÆm not asking TTI to do anything. IÆm just telling people to look at themselves if they have a problem with TTI. If they donÆt like your politics, they can simply boycott your products. Same goes for me and my corp. IÆm not asking you to be the police nor do I expect you to be. Just donÆt complain when people accuse you of cooperating with pirates. The fact is you do. We do not.
Anything you care to add is just smoke and mirrors.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
Edited by: Heff on 27/06/2003 21:39:25
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Heff
Playboy Enterprises
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:38:00 -
[66]
Hiro...there you go again... bending words around. IÆm not asking TTI to do anything. IÆm just telling people to look at themselves if they have a problem with TTI. If they donÆt like your politics, they can simply boycott your products. Same goes for me and my corp. IÆm not asking you to be the police nor do I expect you to be. Just donÆt complain when people accuse you of cooperating with pirates. The fact is you do. We do not.
Anything you care to add is just smoke and mirrors.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
Edited by: Heff on 27/06/2003 21:39:25
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Hiro Protagonist
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:58:00 -
[67]
No Heff, we do not "cooperate" with pirates. Some pirates we have hunted. Some pirates we have never run into. Some pirates, specifically Moo, we simply chose not to get into a war with them.
You have made the very same choice. You hunted other pirates, but you have not formally declared war with Moo, you have not sent ships against them or engaged them.
The only differences are:
#1 We did it formally, via a nap. You do it informally, by just staying away from them and not declaring war.
#2 We don't criticize anybody else for declaring war/not declaring war. You jump on these forums implying our politics are bad, that people should boycott us, etc. - even though your politics are essentially identical in this regard.
BTW, it is a pretty weak tactic to post "Oh look at TTI business practices. Evaluate whether you want to be business with them, blah blah blah" and then and then claim you are not criticizing our actions. You are essentially saying "TTI bad. So boycott TTI". Now when I confront it you are starting this song and dance about "evaluate blah blah blah". You are the one twisting words here.
Acix, you wrote "You can do as you please, just trying to let you know the consequenses for turning a blind eye." What blind eye? We know Moo are not nice people. We've never defended Moo or supported Moo in any way.
We are not your police agency. We are not your army. We are not your big brother. Why do you think we are obligated to attack Moo?
Is Heff and Playboy obligated to attack Moo? Is Heff and Playboy "turning a blind eye" by not attacking them? All I see from Heff is words on these forums - why are you not criticizing Heff and telling him he should "know the consequences" for taking no action to combat Moo?
If TTI acted like many the other corporations and jumped on these forums, yelled "Moo bad! We hate Moo!", then proceeded to do nothing, again just like many other corporations, would you be happy?
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 22:11:43
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.27 21:58:00 -
[68]
No Heff, we do not "cooperate" with pirates. Some pirates we have hunted. Some pirates we have never run into. Some pirates, specifically Moo, we simply chose not to get into a war with them.
You have made the very same choice. You hunted other pirates, but you have not formally declared war with Moo, you have not sent ships against them or engaged them.
The only differences are:
#1 We did it formally, via a nap. You do it informally, by just staying away from them and not declaring war.
#2 We don't criticize anybody else for declaring war/not declaring war. You jump on these forums implying our politics are bad, that people should boycott us, etc. - even though your politics are essentially identical in this regard.
BTW, it is a pretty weak tactic to post "Oh look at TTI business practices. Evaluate whether you want to be business with them, blah blah blah" and then and then claim you are not criticizing our actions. You are essentially saying "TTI bad. So boycott TTI". Now when I confront it you are starting this song and dance about "evaluate blah blah blah". You are the one twisting words here.
Acix, you wrote "You can do as you please, just trying to let you know the consequenses for turning a blind eye." What blind eye? We know Moo are not nice people. We've never defended Moo or supported Moo in any way.
We are not your police agency. We are not your army. We are not your big brother. Why do you think we are obligated to attack Moo?
Is Heff and Playboy obligated to attack Moo? Is Heff and Playboy "turning a blind eye" by not attacking them? All I see from Heff is words on these forums - why are you not criticizing Heff and telling him he should "know the consequences" for taking no action to combat Moo?
If TTI acted like many the other corporations and jumped on these forums, yelled "Moo bad! We hate Moo!", then proceeded to do nothing, again just like many other corporations, would you be happy?
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 22:11:43
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Lysithea
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:06:00 -
[69]
Hiro, you're clearly on the defensive and having a hard time making any sense. Your grabbing at straws is only making it worse. Might want to bow out before you lose all credibility for yourself and your corp.
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Lysithea
Playboy Enterprises
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:06:00 -
[70]
Hiro, you're clearly on the defensive and having a hard time making any sense. Your grabbing at straws is only making it worse. Might want to bow out before you lose all credibility for yourself and your corp.
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:10:00 -
[71]
Thanks for the advice Lysithea. Have you attacked Moo? Let's see the screenshot of a Moo pod you are responsible for please.
Do your own dirty work.
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 22:11:59
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Hiro Protagonist
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:10:00 -
[72]
Thanks for the advice Lysithea. Have you attacked Moo? Let's see the screenshot of a Moo pod you are responsible for please.
Do your own dirty work.
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 22:11:59
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Lysithea
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:24:00 -
[73]
<--- pointing and laughing.
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Lysithea
Playboy Enterprises
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:24:00 -
[74]
<--- pointing and laughing.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:31:00 -
[75]
Hiro, I'm rather sure Lysithea just pointed to the ground, and you stupidly dug yourself a giant hole. Sigh...
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/06/2003 22:44:01
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
The Short Bus Squad
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:31:00 -
[76]
Hiro, I'm rather sure Lysithea just pointed to the ground, and you stupidly dug yourself a giant hole. Sigh...
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/06/2003 22:44:01
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Uncle Enzo
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:56:00 -
[77]
And the winner is.....
MOO because all of you are sitting around arguing while they continue their merry way. |
Uncle Enzo
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Posted - 2003.06.27 22:56:00 -
[78]
And the winner is.....
MOO because all of you are sitting around arguing while they continue their merry way. |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.27 23:10:00 -
[79]
I've been slowly trying to explain this to you TTI guys. One more time, I do not want you to be the police force for the universe. Your philosophy issues would get in your way too much. You need to understand your position in the game. You are one of the larger corps, correct? You will be under the microscope regardless of if you want to be or not. When you make a decision (like the NAP with m0o) you will be scrutinized at a certain level for it. You have no choice in this matter. You also need to understand that what you do and say carries a lot of weight with the other corps. If you decided to have a zero tolerance policy for pirates, you would have gathered a lot of support and gained a vast group of allies to help combat the problem. You chose not to do this, fine stand by your decision. But don't attack me for saying it was the wrong thing to do. I am but just an indy pilot. But I do know where I would fit into a war situation. Supply lines are one of the biggest needs of a military force. This has been proven all through history (once again pointing towards history as a teacher). The things I stated about you ideals was not meant to attack them but to offer another view point for you to take into consideration. I do and will in the future hold the right of free speach and I will state my opinion and let you know my feelings about what and how your decisions affect me. M0o just moved into my area as of last night. I am stuck where I am for the time being. I have no way to combat this problem myself. I still do not ask for your help. I would however like to start a coalition against pirates in general. If you stood by this it would add a huge vioce to the zero tolerance policy a coalition of this type would have. Later tonight I will lay out my plans on the forum in a straight forward well detailed and highly organized fashion. Seeing as how I cannot even leave my system as of now, I am wanting to do something to pass the time. Then when these plans are laid out on the table you can choose to be a part of them or not. Look for the post later tonight and you may join the debate if you so choose to (or the following day as I am in the pacific time zone and the posting will be later tonight my time).
It is about time for a call to arms to take the pirates down a few notches. If we leave them alone now they will only become a larger force. A few of them have battleships now, do we wait until all of them have battleships and we cannot even attempt a preemptive strike. We will only be hurting ourselves if we do not take this action.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Acix
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2003.06.27 23:10:00 -
[80]
I've been slowly trying to explain this to you TTI guys. One more time, I do not want you to be the police force for the universe. Your philosophy issues would get in your way too much. You need to understand your position in the game. You are one of the larger corps, correct? You will be under the microscope regardless of if you want to be or not. When you make a decision (like the NAP with m0o) you will be scrutinized at a certain level for it. You have no choice in this matter. You also need to understand that what you do and say carries a lot of weight with the other corps. If you decided to have a zero tolerance policy for pirates, you would have gathered a lot of support and gained a vast group of allies to help combat the problem. You chose not to do this, fine stand by your decision. But don't attack me for saying it was the wrong thing to do. I am but just an indy pilot. But I do know where I would fit into a war situation. Supply lines are one of the biggest needs of a military force. This has been proven all through history (once again pointing towards history as a teacher). The things I stated about you ideals was not meant to attack them but to offer another view point for you to take into consideration. I do and will in the future hold the right of free speach and I will state my opinion and let you know my feelings about what and how your decisions affect me. M0o just moved into my area as of last night. I am stuck where I am for the time being. I have no way to combat this problem myself. I still do not ask for your help. I would however like to start a coalition against pirates in general. If you stood by this it would add a huge vioce to the zero tolerance policy a coalition of this type would have. Later tonight I will lay out my plans on the forum in a straight forward well detailed and highly organized fashion. Seeing as how I cannot even leave my system as of now, I am wanting to do something to pass the time. Then when these plans are laid out on the table you can choose to be a part of them or not. Look for the post later tonight and you may join the debate if you so choose to (or the following day as I am in the pacific time zone and the posting will be later tonight my time).
It is about time for a call to arms to take the pirates down a few notches. If we leave them alone now they will only become a larger force. A few of them have battleships now, do we wait until all of them have battleships and we cannot even attempt a preemptive strike. We will only be hurting ourselves if we do not take this action.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.27 23:35:00 -
[81]
Acix,
Thanks for the well thought out reply, and the absence of cheap shots.
I can't speak for the execs, but putting aside all philosophy (btw, I am not an objectivist), there's a tactical problem I see with starting a grand alliance to wipe out Moo - it is too easy to run and hide, then take targets of opportunity later.
There is no way to really locate Moo in-game - they can easily move around. Furthermore, when in a system, unless you add them all to your friends list, you might not even know they are present until you actually get in sensor range (assuming you set your faction setting to -20). If you do happen to find them, they can simply warp to station.
With instant dock bookmarks and other game features, it is nearly impossible to really corner a pirate. Traders and miners are naturally at a disadvantage - to make money, a trader has a limited set of routes to follow. To mine, you have to sit your but down and wait at an asteroid belt.
A pirate, on the other hand, can choose any gate in a 0.4 system and pirate away. Piece of cake. Things get hot - approach gate and leave, or warp to station and dock.
This is a game mechanics problem imho. TTI has chased pirates. Usually what we end up with is a pirate sitting in station and a bunch of bored members sitting outside. We eventually give up and leave, the pirate undocks and resumes pirating.
We've even tried jumping several ships in at once with jammers, etc - the trouble is unless you land within 20km of a pirate, you can't statis/jam them, and they run. Most pirates put bookmarks in random spots in space, so there is effectively no way to corner them.
What Eve needs as a space game is more of a naval feel to it imho. That is, if a ship is outside in the ocean, it isn't gonna suddenly disappear and be unfindable, or dock and become invulnerable. Make stations possible to attack. Make it possible to track people to some degree between systems.
Just my $0.02 - as it is today, piracy is just about the easiest, lowest risk fast money occupation, and going after it is just about the least fun, hardest thing to do.
So anyway, yeah, TTI or some other large corp could start some grand alliance to hunt Moo, but I don't really see it succeeding - the game favors the runner too much, not the hunter.
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 23:51:38
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Hiro Protagonist
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2003.06.27 23:35:00 -
[82]
Acix,
Thanks for the well thought out reply, and the absence of cheap shots.
I can't speak for the execs, but putting aside all philosophy (btw, I am not an objectivist), there's a tactical problem I see with starting a grand alliance to wipe out Moo - it is too easy to run and hide, then take targets of opportunity later.
There is no way to really locate Moo in-game - they can easily move around. Furthermore, when in a system, unless you add them all to your friends list, you might not even know they are present until you actually get in sensor range (assuming you set your faction setting to -20). If you do happen to find them, they can simply warp to station.
With instant dock bookmarks and other game features, it is nearly impossible to really corner a pirate. Traders and miners are naturally at a disadvantage - to make money, a trader has a limited set of routes to follow. To mine, you have to sit your but down and wait at an asteroid belt.
A pirate, on the other hand, can choose any gate in a 0.4 system and pirate away. Piece of cake. Things get hot - approach gate and leave, or warp to station and dock.
This is a game mechanics problem imho. TTI has chased pirates. Usually what we end up with is a pirate sitting in station and a bunch of bored members sitting outside. We eventually give up and leave, the pirate undocks and resumes pirating.
We've even tried jumping several ships in at once with jammers, etc - the trouble is unless you land within 20km of a pirate, you can't statis/jam them, and they run. Most pirates put bookmarks in random spots in space, so there is effectively no way to corner them.
What Eve needs as a space game is more of a naval feel to it imho. That is, if a ship is outside in the ocean, it isn't gonna suddenly disappear and be unfindable, or dock and become invulnerable. Make stations possible to attack. Make it possible to track people to some degree between systems.
Just my $0.02 - as it is today, piracy is just about the easiest, lowest risk fast money occupation, and going after it is just about the least fun, hardest thing to do.
So anyway, yeah, TTI or some other large corp could start some grand alliance to hunt Moo, but I don't really see it succeeding - the game favors the runner too much, not the hunter.
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 23:51:38
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Acix
|
Posted - 2003.06.27 23:50:00 -
[83]
your points are the same that my roomates and I banged our heads against for a couple of days before a stratagy emerged. I will lay this out later. The great thing about it is that any pirate can read about it. But won't know they are a part of it, until they are targeted by way too many people to even think about doing anything but being a floating frozen corpse. How many clones do you think they can buy before they run out of money to cover their huge battleship skill sets?
More on this later..................
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Acix
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2003.06.27 23:50:00 -
[84]
your points are the same that my roomates and I banged our heads against for a couple of days before a stratagy emerged. I will lay this out later. The great thing about it is that any pirate can read about it. But won't know they are a part of it, until they are targeted by way too many people to even think about doing anything but being a floating frozen corpse. How many clones do you think they can buy before they run out of money to cover their huge battleship skill sets?
More on this later..................
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Hiro Protagonist
|
Posted - 2003.06.27 23:53:00 -
[85]
Well, I'm all ears man - nice to see someone working on a solution instead of just criticizing from the sidelines! :)
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 23:54:33 |
Hiro Protagonist
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2003.06.27 23:53:00 -
[86]
Well, I'm all ears man - nice to see someone working on a solution instead of just criticizing from the sidelines! :)
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 23:54:33 |
agrizla
|
Posted - 2003.06.28 00:33:00 -
[87]
Can I just point out a couple of facts :
1) Lord Zap yesterday in the Bounty channel was bragging how TTI gave m0o minerals free in return for passage;
2) He also intimated that this "NAP" wouldn't be in effect much longer.
Now those are facts in that this is what he said.
As to the whole truth - well I don't know and to be quite honest I don't care.
One thing to remember people is that whatever you think of them m0o are skilled tacticians who identify weak points and exploit them. I wouldn't think for one second that this only applies to combat tactics if I was you :)
NB - "exploit" does not mean a game exploit, it simply means they are quite adept at exploiting weak points both in space and within alliances/NAPs. I suspect this public excoriation of TTI was always planned to happen....
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.06.28 00:33:00 -
[88]
Can I just point out a couple of facts :
1) Lord Zap yesterday in the Bounty channel was bragging how TTI gave m0o minerals free in return for passage;
2) He also intimated that this "NAP" wouldn't be in effect much longer.
Now those are facts in that this is what he said.
As to the whole truth - well I don't know and to be quite honest I don't care.
One thing to remember people is that whatever you think of them m0o are skilled tacticians who identify weak points and exploit them. I wouldn't think for one second that this only applies to combat tactics if I was you :)
NB - "exploit" does not mean a game exploit, it simply means they are quite adept at exploiting weak points both in space and within alliances/NAPs. I suspect this public excoriation of TTI was always planned to happen....
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Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.28 00:37:00 -
[89]
Wow. Do you guys even understand the philosophy that you supposedly follow at all?
Atlas Shrugged is not Ann's only book, her viewpoint on life was not simple enough to fit in a single book, even the likes of Atlas Shrugged. If you profess to follow the objectionist philosophy maybe you should actually understand it first.
I didnt take your comment as an insult at all. It appeared to me just to simply show the elitist attitude of your corporation.
For those of you that dont know, Atlas Shrugged and the other works of Ann Rand attempt to express in story for the ideas of a philosophy called objectionism. This is a basic outline of this philosphy and the ideas valued by this as quoted from some of the leading experts on the subject.
- "The primary virtues of the objectivist ethics are rationality, independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, trade, and pride."
Again I ask, if anyone of your number is knowledgeable enough about the subject to answer intelligently, how do your action match up to these criteria.
Edited by: Bonegnasher on 28/06/2003 00:38:29
Edited by: Bonegnasher on 28/06/2003 00:39:28
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Bonegnasher
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2003.06.28 00:37:00 -
[90]
Wow. Do you guys even understand the philosophy that you supposedly follow at all?
Atlas Shrugged is not Ann's only book, her viewpoint on life was not simple enough to fit in a single book, even the likes of Atlas Shrugged. If you profess to follow the objectionist philosophy maybe you should actually understand it first.
I didnt take your comment as an insult at all. It appeared to me just to simply show the elitist attitude of your corporation.
For those of you that dont know, Atlas Shrugged and the other works of Ann Rand attempt to express in story for the ideas of a philosophy called objectionism. This is a basic outline of this philosphy and the ideas valued by this as quoted from some of the leading experts on the subject.
- "The primary virtues of the objectivist ethics are rationality, independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, trade, and pride."
Again I ask, if anyone of your number is knowledgeable enough about the subject to answer intelligently, how do your action match up to these criteria.
Edited by: Bonegnasher on 28/06/2003 00:38:29
Edited by: Bonegnasher on 28/06/2003 00:39:28
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.28 00:46:00 -
[91]
Acix, I would love to know your little tactic.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
The Short Bus Squad
The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2003.06.28 00:46:00 -
[92]
Acix, I would love to know your little tactic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Prophex
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2003.06.28 01:54:00 -
[93]
Although I do not claim to be an objectivist, I have studied the philosophy as well as many others and parts of it are valid, and I do respect them. I know it's fundamentally flawed, most modes of thinking are. I'm just saying that most people (seemingly) don't understand where we're coming from in relation to the NAP.
As for being singled out as the corporation that should make a stand, the scrutiny at the moment is unjust. If you can't hold yourself up to the standards that you made, then how can you expect to pass yourself off as some moral hero?
TTI made a decision, and it's not obligated that you respect it, but keep the mud flinging down. Acix had an excellent post that didn't take any cheap shots, and that's constructive.
I'm not here to represent the entire corporation, I am merely here to manifest my point of view (no matter how rambling it may be) as a member of TTI.
Edited by: Prophex on 28/06/2003 01:55:14
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Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.28 01:54:00 -
[94]
Although I do not claim to be an objectivist, I have studied the philosophy as well as many others and parts of it are valid, and I do respect them. I know it's fundamentally flawed, most modes of thinking are. I'm just saying that most people (seemingly) don't understand where we're coming from in relation to the NAP.
As for being singled out as the corporation that should make a stand, the scrutiny at the moment is unjust. If you can't hold yourself up to the standards that you made, then how can you expect to pass yourself off as some moral hero?
TTI made a decision, and it's not obligated that you respect it, but keep the mud flinging down. Acix had an excellent post that didn't take any cheap shots, and that's constructive.
I'm not here to represent the entire corporation, I am merely here to manifest my point of view (no matter how rambling it may be) as a member of TTI.
Edited by: Prophex on 28/06/2003 01:55:14
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.28 04:39:00 -
[95]
I've heard about Zap and friends making all sorts of rather entertaining claims too - how we promised them a BP, gave them millions, etc., etc.
Some people will be so focused on the fact that TTI didn't engage in war with Moo that they will believe anything, even claims by Moo itself, to fit their worldview that "TTI bad!" Let's call these category I people.
Others might pause to look at the actions and speakers involved. The only action one can accuse TTI of is of making a non-aggression pact. All the posters here know of the myriad of actions Moo has made, even to the degree that CCP itself condemns them as griefers. Let's call these category II people.
As to Moo planning this all out - it is an interesting possibility. On the flip side, I am of the belief that TTI execs also made the same calculation. I'd extrapolate from there to say that category I people would find a reason to hate the biggest corporation no matter what the reality is, and so the fact that they don't care for TTI is no net loss.
"If you profess to follow the objectionist philosophy maybe you should actually understand it first."
Bonegnasher - I am not a follower of objectivism, and the cheap shot about TTI member intelligence make your post almost not worth worth replying to. My only response would be to suggest that before you publicly go about claiming to have a greater understanding of it than those in TTI who do follow it, I suggest you try to at least get the name right - Rand was objectivist, not objectionist.
I guess you could claim I am an objectionist, because I object to your post :P
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 28/06/2003 04:44:12
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Hiro Protagonist
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2003.06.28 04:39:00 -
[96]
I've heard about Zap and friends making all sorts of rather entertaining claims too - how we promised them a BP, gave them millions, etc., etc.
Some people will be so focused on the fact that TTI didn't engage in war with Moo that they will believe anything, even claims by Moo itself, to fit their worldview that "TTI bad!" Let's call these category I people.
Others might pause to look at the actions and speakers involved. The only action one can accuse TTI of is of making a non-aggression pact. All the posters here know of the myriad of actions Moo has made, even to the degree that CCP itself condemns them as griefers. Let's call these category II people.
As to Moo planning this all out - it is an interesting possibility. On the flip side, I am of the belief that TTI execs also made the same calculation. I'd extrapolate from there to say that category I people would find a reason to hate the biggest corporation no matter what the reality is, and so the fact that they don't care for TTI is no net loss.
"If you profess to follow the objectionist philosophy maybe you should actually understand it first."
Bonegnasher - I am not a follower of objectivism, and the cheap shot about TTI member intelligence make your post almost not worth worth replying to. My only response would be to suggest that before you publicly go about claiming to have a greater understanding of it than those in TTI who do follow it, I suggest you try to at least get the name right - Rand was objectivist, not objectionist.
I guess you could claim I am an objectionist, because I object to your post :P
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 28/06/2003 04:44:12
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Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.28 06:52:00 -
[97]
Thats about the type of response that I expected..
Find a little typo and use it to worm out of any form of rational explanation.
Now a quote from your own website.....
"Acts as a rugged individualist.
Keeps his word to any other good person.
Never attacks or kills an unarmed foe.
Never harms an innocent.
Never tortures for pleasure or information. Threats may be permissible.
Never kills for pleasure.
ALWAYS TRIES TO HELP OTHERS. <<<<<<<<<<
Distrusts authority.
Works well in groups, but dislikes confining rules and 'red tape'.
Never betrays a friend."
So how are you guys helping others by turning your back on all the newbs of the galaxy?
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Bonegnasher
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2003.06.28 06:52:00 -
[98]
Thats about the type of response that I expected..
Find a little typo and use it to worm out of any form of rational explanation.
Now a quote from your own website.....
"Acts as a rugged individualist.
Keeps his word to any other good person.
Never attacks or kills an unarmed foe.
Never harms an innocent.
Never tortures for pleasure or information. Threats may be permissible.
Never kills for pleasure.
ALWAYS TRIES TO HELP OTHERS. <<<<<<<<<<
Distrusts authority.
Works well in groups, but dislikes confining rules and 'red tape'.
Never betrays a friend."
So how are you guys helping others by turning your back on all the newbs of the galaxy?
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Nootami
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Posted - 2003.06.28 06:57:00 -
[99]
"The best thing you can teach someone who needs help is to help themselves"
If you dont like moo, then gang up your friends and go after them. Stop whining.
 Originally by: Cortex Reaver
[22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel
[22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit
Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds!
-CR
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Nootami
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2003.06.28 06:57:00 -
[100]
"The best thing you can teach someone who needs help is to help themselves"
If you dont like moo, then gang up your friends and go after them. Stop whining.
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
[22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel
[22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit
Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds!
-CR
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Nootami
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Posted - 2003.06.28 06:59:00 -
[101]
"Thats about the type of response that I expected..
Find a little typo and use it to worm out of any form of rational explanation.
Now a quote from your own website.....
"Acts as a rugged individualist.
Keeps his word to any other good person.
Never attacks or kills an unarmed foe.
Never harms an innocent.
Never tortures for pleasure or information. Threats may be permissible.
Never kills for pleasure.
ALWAYS TRIES TO HELP OTHERS. <<<<<<<<<<
Distrusts authority.
Works well in groups, but dislikes confining rules and 'red tape'.
Never betrays a friend."
So how are you guys helping others by turning your back on all the newbs of the galaxy?"
I hope you realize that is an exerpt from thier synopsis of what a "Chaotic Good" character is. Nice job on your part.
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
[22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel
[22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit
Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds!
-CR
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Nootami
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2003.06.28 06:59:00 -
[102]
"Thats about the type of response that I expected..
Find a little typo and use it to worm out of any form of rational explanation.
Now a quote from your own website.....
"Acts as a rugged individualist.
Keeps his word to any other good person.
Never attacks or kills an unarmed foe.
Never harms an innocent.
Never tortures for pleasure or information. Threats may be permissible.
Never kills for pleasure.
ALWAYS TRIES TO HELP OTHERS. <<<<<<<<<<
Distrusts authority.
Works well in groups, but dislikes confining rules and 'red tape'.
Never betrays a friend."
So how are you guys helping others by turning your back on all the newbs of the galaxy?"
I hope you realize that is an exerpt from thier synopsis of what a "Chaotic Good" character is. Nice job on your part.
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
[22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel
[22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit
Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds!
-CR
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Bonegnasher
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2003.06.28 07:48:00 -
[103]
Yes I do, hence the post.....
Thats also the main alignment that their corp supposedly represents. They do admit to having members of other alignments, but the main core of them........
ah well, dunno why I really care.....
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.28 07:48:00 -
[104]
Yes I do, hence the post.....
Thats also the main alignment that their corp supposedly represents. They do admit to having members of other alignments, but the main core of them........
ah well, dunno why I really care.....
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Riffler
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Posted - 2003.06.28 09:44:00 -
[105]
"I've heard about Zap and friends making all sorts of rather entertaining claims too - how we promised them a BP, gave them millions, etc., etc. "
Add to that the repeated TTI kills claimed by moo when the target is tempting enough, the widespread belief that business links between moo and TTI go deeper than a simple NAP and the growing belief that rather than moo being a pirate subsidiary of TTI, TTI is in fact some kind of legit subsidiary of moo and TTI is facing a crisis.
They're no longer seen as too powerful a corp to attack. They're losing combat pilots and potential recruits because they're seen as spineless. They're over-reliant on a market which is increasingly in crisis as BPs over-proliferate and prices collapse.
TTI's reputation and its brand name represent real value, value which is in sharp decline. That reputation is supposed to bring in recruits, it's supposed to protect TTI ships, it's supposed to command respect, and it just ain't doing it any more.
So we're back to the point I made 4 pages ago, only more so. TTI has succeeded in painting itself into a corner by claiming it's not in its interests to attack moo, whereby the only way for TTI to restore its reputation is... by attacking moo.
People expect, rightly or wrongly, the biggest legit corp to act against moo terrorism. By not doing so, TTI damages itself massively in the perception of most players.
Sooner or later, a large corp or alliance of corps will act against moo. TTI's unwillingness to take the lead, or even be involved in such action will inevitably damage it irrevocably and it will be overtaken by those who do take action.
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Riffler
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Posted - 2003.06.28 09:44:00 -
[106]
"I've heard about Zap and friends making all sorts of rather entertaining claims too - how we promised them a BP, gave them millions, etc., etc. "
Add to that the repeated TTI kills claimed by moo when the target is tempting enough, the widespread belief that business links between moo and TTI go deeper than a simple NAP and the growing belief that rather than moo being a pirate subsidiary of TTI, TTI is in fact some kind of legit subsidiary of moo and TTI is facing a crisis.
They're no longer seen as too powerful a corp to attack. They're losing combat pilots and potential recruits because they're seen as spineless. They're over-reliant on a market which is increasingly in crisis as BPs over-proliferate and prices collapse.
TTI's reputation and its brand name represent real value, value which is in sharp decline. That reputation is supposed to bring in recruits, it's supposed to protect TTI ships, it's supposed to command respect, and it just ain't doing it any more.
So we're back to the point I made 4 pages ago, only more so. TTI has succeeded in painting itself into a corner by claiming it's not in its interests to attack moo, whereby the only way for TTI to restore its reputation is... by attacking moo.
People expect, rightly or wrongly, the biggest legit corp to act against moo terrorism. By not doing so, TTI damages itself massively in the perception of most players.
Sooner or later, a large corp or alliance of corps will act against moo. TTI's unwillingness to take the lead, or even be involved in such action will inevitably damage it irrevocably and it will be overtaken by those who do take action.
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Jebba IV
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Posted - 2003.06.28 11:31:00 -
[107]
well obviously TTI likes the NAP more than m0o does...seeing they let m0o claim false statementsand do nothing about it...
oh and yes you guys are the biggest corp in the game...and then to come with a NAP with m0o...i mean a NAP stands closer to a possible alliance then to a war isnt it?
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Jebba IV
Caldari
League of Gentlemen
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Posted - 2003.06.28 11:31:00 -
[108]
well obviously TTI likes the NAP more than m0o does...seeing they let m0o claim false statementsand do nothing about it...
oh and yes you guys are the biggest corp in the game...and then to come with a NAP with m0o...i mean a NAP stands closer to a possible alliance then to a war isnt it?
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:24:00 -
[109]
I just can't understand this constant slamming of TTI over a simple NAP. Now we're in decline and spineless? If you can make opinions based simply on a few forum posts and no real knowledge of exactly what we're doing I guess I'll ask you for some winning lottery numbers.
I have to believe all this attention is simple resentment and nothing more. Why are we resented so much? It's true real life has moved into this game with talk of "morals" and "obligations". I think some real life lessons are present in the way people are slamming us for no real reason. All this speculation is enjoyable to read. I'm glad all of you know what we're doing and what our real motives are.
The truth is no one here knows what we're really up too. I kind of like it that way. :)
Calladen Nimitz
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 28/06/2003 15:26:37
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Calladen Nimitz
Caldari
Libertas Enterprises
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:24:00 -
[110]
I just can't understand this constant slamming of TTI over a simple NAP. Now we're in decline and spineless? If you can make opinions based simply on a few forum posts and no real knowledge of exactly what we're doing I guess I'll ask you for some winning lottery numbers.
I have to believe all this attention is simple resentment and nothing more. Why are we resented so much? It's true real life has moved into this game with talk of "morals" and "obligations". I think some real life lessons are present in the way people are slamming us for no real reason. All this speculation is enjoyable to read. I'm glad all of you know what we're doing and what our real motives are.
The truth is no one here knows what we're really up too. I kind of like it that way. :)
Calladen Nimitz
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 28/06/2003 15:26:37
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:54:00 -
[111]
Ok, how about everyone start putting bounties on key TTI personel?
I'm sure if enough ppl do, m0o or others will be tempted to collect :)
Edited by: PropanElgen on 28/06/2003 16:54:54
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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PropanElgen
Caldari
CRICE Corporation
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:54:00 -
[112]
Ok, how about everyone start putting bounties on key TTI personel?
I'm sure if enough ppl do, m0o or others will be tempted to collect :)
Edited by: PropanElgen on 28/06/2003 16:54:54
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Miyamoto
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Posted - 2003.06.28 17:54:00 -
[113]
Try and put a bounty on a guy with +5 security. Try it.
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Miyamoto
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Posted - 2003.06.28 17:54:00 -
[114]
Try and put a bounty on a guy with +5 security. Try it.
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:19:00 -
[115]
Try and put a bounty on a guy with +5 security. Try it.
------
Haha, yeah I see why that was a dumb suggestion I made :)
You learn something every day.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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PropanElgen
Caldari
CRICE Corporation
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:19:00 -
[116]
Try and put a bounty on a guy with +5 security. Try it.
------
Haha, yeah I see why that was a dumb suggestion I made :)
You learn something every day.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Macrowarp
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Posted - 2006.10.04 08:33:00 -
[117]
TTi will never faulter! All you haters should just be quiet.
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Sharcy
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.04 08:54:00 -
[118]
Wow, took you 3 YEARS to read through that thread, did it? 
--
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Coasterbrian
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.04 08:56:00 -
[119]
Don't necro. I predict Ulynidd.
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I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say. |
Altai Saker
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2006.10.04 09:14:00 -
[120]
WOW! This is an old thread 
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Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.10.04 11:11:00 -
[121]
*click* locked for necromancy
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