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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.26 03:03:00 -
[31]
"It's a game and I believe everyone's goal is too have fun? Can you agree with that? Why does having the all mighty isk make your game fun? wow your corp has the most money what are you going to do with it? You claim to have so much but yet will not risk any of it on fighting!"
Well, if thats how we have fun so be it. We're not affecting YOUR gameplay at all buy making isk. If we like to make money and thats "fun" for us why should you care?
By the way, as long as the way you make money doesn't affect anyone else's gameplay I have no problem with you at all.
Calladen Nimitz
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Charlatan
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Posted - 2003.06.26 04:45:00 -
[32]
Some good points here. In this game isk is simply a means to an end. And that ultimate end is getting out there with our cool toys and shooting each other. After all, what's the point of a massively multiplayer space game without massive multiplayer space combat? Ultimately I think the TTi model breaks down because even though though they have some cool toys they aren't willing to use them.
Hell, my corp is about 25 people atm and we've had a lot of fun tracking down PC pirates when we can. I think the large corps who keep saying PvP is pointless are missing the entire point of the game.
Edited by: Charlatan on 26/06/2003 04:45:59 |
Derek
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Posted - 2003.06.26 04:58:00 -
[33]
"I think the large corps who keep saying PvP is pointless are missing the entire point of the game."
We never said it was useless. We chose this route for our reasons that include not getting into an all out war. We have used our ships for combat many times. To fight every pirate in the universe would take more resources than any corp has.
I wish everyone would just let it drop to be honest. I have never in the history of this game seen more press over the signing of a simple NAP agreement.
_______________________________________________2005.05.02 03:56:57combatYour Mega Pulse Laser II perfectly strikes Sansha's Battletower, wrecking for 1190.5 damage._ |
Elithiomel
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Posted - 2003.06.26 06:43:00 -
[34]
post removed.
apologies for losing my temper.
this was an ill advised statement and will not happen again.
Edited by: Elithiomel on 26/06/2003 10:48:06
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Engineers motto; If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway. |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.26 06:50:00 -
[35]
We have an NAP.
Its our business and in out best interest.
We enjoy making money in the game.
None of these things affect anyone else so perhaps someone could explain all the criticism and complaints here? I mean we've gone out of our way to NOT criticize the way other people do business yet we're being dumped on royally here. We mind our own business. If you want to be a communist, a socialist, a democracy, a capitalist company, go for it, its no ones business but your own. I could care less.
Maybe people who live in glass houses........ oh well.
Calladen Nimitz
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Prada
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Posted - 2003.06.26 09:18:00 -
[36]
This game is emulating real life to some degree IMHO.
Large corporations put in a lot of money towards "unprofitable" ventures in order to keep their potential customers happy. Society demands that corporations do so, and corporations *usually* oblige in varying degrees of willingness.
TTI does not have to handle the m0o situation. But if they did, I'm sure TTI would earn the praise and respect of a lot of their fellow players. As it stands, TTI has taken the cowardly, albeit profitable, way out, and thus is earning the scorn of their fellow players.
I'm not saying what TTI is doing is right or wrong, because frankly, it's neither, but don't tell me you are so stupid that you didn't see this sort of response from the players coming?
Rocky - you are absolutely right that this is properly role-playing a Caldari corp. But quite frankly, what % of the Eve population do you think really cares about role-playing? They want to have fun. m0o is preventing them from having fun. They can't deal with m0o, so they want someone who can (i.e. TTI) to do so.
Edited by: Prada on 26/06/2003 09:21:34
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Yoshokun
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Posted - 2003.06.26 13:23:00 -
[37]
In reply to comments stating that the smaller corporations will not band together without the guidance of a larger corporation, I have two words for you: The Entente. It worked. Read back on the old forums and get your fill of EVE Beta history.
TTI was small once too.
EVE history also shows that those who spend more time on the forums whining about the situation in-game wind up losing when up against those who dedicate their time to suceeding. Instead of making boastful and delusional claims that TTI is ripe for the picking, perhaps you should spend that energy on getting a good ship, networking with some other corps, and making an attack on a "tolled" jumpgate.
But, then again, that would require action. Just keep complaining on the forums, it feels so much better, eh?
Edited by: Yoshokun on 26/06/2003 13:26:49
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2003.06.26 14:38:00 -
[38]
This all makes me laugh!! I am a lone fighter in a huge universe and I am scared of nobody. I meet the MOO I deal with the MOO(or run like a chicken if they are too hard!!). I don't worry about the NAP that TTI have agreed with them it is astute business sense if you ask me. Why have to worry about getting your hard earned gear pillaged by them if you can work under them. As for the analogy of the WW2, my god get a grip this is fantasy and that was really bad part of history!! So less of the moaning and more of the dealing with it either put up or shut up!!
Can I also put a note out to either TTI or the MOO, I am not one to site quietly and want to crate myself a reputation be it good or bad. I only fly a Merlin at the moment but will be moving on to bigger and better things, so MOO or TTI come look me up its not all hype I am the dog's Bollards!!
"Its is the wise man that says, but the motivated that make it happen!"
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Kit SummerIsle
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Posted - 2003.06.26 15:17:00 -
[39]
Pychian Vanervi you are dog balls? Do you get licked alot?
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Cptmorgan
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Posted - 2003.06.26 15:45:00 -
[40]
Um... one thing is making me scratch my head here. Ok, all the new people and small corperations are complaining that the TTI won't join the war. Ok, fair enough. They are complaining that they need a mega corp to help them. Ok, fair enough. So you are telling me that throughout the whole game of eve TTI is the ONLY mega corp out there? I don't seem to see anyone looking for an alternative. So TTI didn't join the fight. Hey, their choice. I don't see any other 'Moral High ground' Mega corp's stepping up in their wake.
So maybe all you guys should spend less time complaining about what TTI did or didn't do, and spend more time finding someone else to save your sorry tail ends.
na, that would be too easy LOL
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.26 18:25:00 -
[41]
For those that posted and did not understand what I was trying to state, let me make it a little more basic. I did not say that TTI had to get involved, what I was trying to get accross was that if a larger corp (TTI or whomever) does not take a stand and gather the press about that stand, the smaller corps will not join together to fight m0o. The samller corps could do that but without the beacon of a larger corp leading the cause it most likely will not happen any time soon. The history leason for all of you that don't think it means anything is very important. This is how we base how groups will interact with each other, not just here but in real life also. So take the leason from history and learn from it. THe more you understand it the better your understanding of this game will be. As for TTI they can do whatever they want. But they must understand that their call to arms (in the future they will sooner or later) may not be met by many that would have earlier. Your diplomatic wing or your corp needs to review what history teaches. React too fast and you may not get the support you need. React too slow and the same will happen. TTI really could not take m0o out on their own right now anyway (no matter what boastful comments are made). I think that we can just put TTI in the wanna-be uber corp section of the game. They just want bragging rights. Do you really think that in history, if the Azores tried to band a coalition against the Germans anything would have really happened? It took the major powers joining together to garner all the smaller countries together. If you want to be a big corp you really need to understand that what you say and do is going to be put under a microscope. You may say that its unfair (wimper) and you shouldn't have too, its going to happen and you really need to understand that. A lot of smaller corps look to the larger ones (even if they don't realize it) for how things should be done. Its human nature to do so. So if you don't want to be involved in the multi player part of EVE then have CCP set-up a separate server for you to just run your corp away from the rest of us. The US used to be like that. Isolationist, you want people to buy your stuff but you want that to be the end of you involvement. Put that on your web page too. I'm not crying about you not taking the stand I just think that its funny that you don't understand the way that groups interact well enough to say that I am right. I don't even have any contact with your corp or m0o. I have never bought anything from one of your traders or even my ships (I didn't see the corp symbol TTI on any of the people's info that I purchased my ships from). I will leave you with this TTI; know that you are always going to be high profile in everything you do, and don't whine when you are the topic of a critical discusion. Damned if you and Dammed if you don't.................
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Cptmorgan
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Posted - 2003.06.26 20:38:00 -
[42]
Acix, I respect what you say.
Well, seems everyone here loves a good history debate. Ok, here is one for ya. American Revolution. Who won? The big bad mother country or the Underdog? You all seem stuck on the WW2 theme, yet you kinda forget to look at the rest of history! There are more than enough references to where the underdog won.
As per TTI becoming like America was, well ya they could be going that way. Look at the other side of the coin though. They could become what America is concidered to be now. Everyone would be sitting around complaining about how TTI get's involved in their polocy's and their disputes without thier permision. They will be the big bad corperation that want's its hand in every pot. When you said 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' you hit the nail right on the head.
I was thinking about joining a corp and TTI was looking very interesting. I am going to hold off now from joining any corp. Mainly because I don't want to join one , then have my actions dictated by people OUTSIDE the corperation for the purpose of THEIR needs and not in the interest of My corporation OR me.
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.06.26 20:46:00 -
[43]
Dang Cptmorgan you done stepped into this one.
Another history lesson for ya. Who was allied to the American Rebels during the revolution? The French. Who kept the British busy in Europe watching their backsides during the revolution? The French. Who caused the British to finally give up because they could not supply their troops in the colonies? The French. Do you see a pattern? The little guys won because they had a big buddy guarding their backs.
I hate to say it, but without the help of The French the United States would not exist.
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.27 00:50:00 -
[44]
First off, all the people that called TTI an elitist organization is exactly right.
Second, any corporation that would make a NAP with MOO at this stage in the game is dishonorable. After the despicable tactics of podding newbs were used, it should be pretty self explanatory that they cannot be trusted.
My opinion on the whole thing is to let TTI continue how they want. Moo is just giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.
I've seen it happen in other games before, and trust me its only a matter of time before TTI is full of Moo moles and will suddenly find itself with a big thorn in their ass.
If you make deals with the devil, dont expect to win.......
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 00:55:00 -
[45]
Apparently, no one here has read Atlas Shrugged.
Do so, then you can complain.
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.27 01:13:00 -
[46]
I guess you never read The Tick #1. Read it then laugh.........
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 01:39:00 -
[47]
Touche.
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Bonegnasher
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Posted - 2003.06.27 06:50:00 -
[48]
My god, you guys in TTI are such a bunch of eliteist homo's its not even funny. What is funny is how you have decided to pick and choose from Ayn Rand's philosophical viewpoint.
Let me define it for you...."The primary virtues of the objectivist ethics are rationality, independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, trade, and pride."
So explain to me which of these your NAP with Moo embodies? Justice, i think not. Pride....again, no. Integrity, LOL. Wait maybe its rationality.....uh....I heard Moo broke the NAP agreement AGAIN, haha.
Productivity and Trade I can see, but at the cost of all the others?
At least know your own philosophical viewpoint before you wave it in front of the whole freakin world....
"When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Eidas
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Posted - 2003.06.27 09:29:00 -
[49]
I respect TTI's right to do as they please. They are after all an independent corporation, and answer to nobody. However I would be interested to know if the reason for TTI's NAP with m0o is because m0o were planning to concentrate their attacks on Corporations with the ability to build battleships.
TTI, please tell me that all this hyperbole and rhetoric is not because m0o made you back down. This was a decision based on freedom of choice, yes? Not the result of m0o waving a big stick at you?
Edited by: Eidas on 27/06/2003 09:30:07
Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov |
Selila
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Posted - 2003.06.27 11:16:00 -
[50]
"Apparently, no one here has read Atlas Shrugged."
Most of us have far more sense.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.27 17:34:00 -
[51]
I'm still waiting for Resident Genius Li ShangYin to resond to my last post...
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/06/2003 17:36:09
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 17:35:00 -
[52]
Whether or not you agree or disagree with the viewpoints is inconsequential. It still presents an intriguing philosophy that is being put into practice.
<personal opinion>Virtue... where did you come up with that one? If I were to be virtuous my whole life, I would end up old with nothing around me and all I could say was "I was virtuous."</personal opinion>
Good job.
Edited by: Prophex on 27/06/2003 17:55:34
Edited by: Prophex on 27/06/2003 17:55:47
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2003.06.27 17:40:00 -
[53]
Prophet, it is exactly that mentality that brings these comments upon your corporation.
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 27/06/2003 17:42:28
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:00:00 -
[54]
I think the underlying point here is that law abiding corporations should be hesitant to do business with TTI. We cannot accuse TTI of being pirates because they are at peace with pirates. But because they are unwilling to join the battle against a common enemy, they should not be trusted with your business. TTI is simply selling you goods and watching quietly as the thieves take them from you. That may be a business, but it doesnÆt sound like good business.
Just my opinion, and like @ssh0les, everybody has one.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
Edited by: Heff on 27/06/2003 18:14:41
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Prophex
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:03:00 -
[55]
I meant the "read Atlas Shrugged" comment as to get an idea behind what we do, not as a condescending remark. I apologize if it came out that way.
I will no longer comment on these matters, I will merely let my actions speak for me.
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Uncle Enzo
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:21:00 -
[56]
Heff, what have you done to take care of Moo?
Have you attacked them? Organized a fleet? Protected people passing through Passari?
How about you take all those cruiser BPs you are selling and offer free researched copies to any corp that kills a Moo member?
You have the resources to help be part of the solution, rather than just being another complainer asking TTI to do the work on their behalf. Step up to the plate!
Edited by: Uncle Enzo on 27/06/2003 18:22:20 |
Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:41:00 -
[57]
Auntie Enzo... if you're going to point fingers, please take your glittery nail polish off first and get the facts. My corp did our part to battle Tank CEO and DA Dragons 2 nights ago. Look at the posts. We don't make it a point to hunt pirates, but we stand up and fight when we find them... and we definitely haven't made any pacts with any of them.
As for TTI, if people donÆt like what they are doing, they should stop doing business with them. Now that EVEÆs economy is mostly player driven, everyone together has the power to bring TTI, or any other corporation for that matter, to their knees. If they canÆt sell ships, minerals, or anything else, they will have a big problem making money. But since people are so eager to buy everything they can get their hands on, rarely do they stop and think about where their money is going. Go ahead and buy ships from TTI, or buy your minerals from themà you will only be making the problem worse.
Same goes for my corp -- if you don't like what we are doing, don't do business with us either.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
Edited by: Heff on 27/06/2003 18:43:28
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Hiro Protagonist
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Posted - 2003.06.27 18:50:00 -
[58]
"My corp did our part to battle Tank CEO and DA Dragons 2 nights ago."
FYI TTI was hunting Tank back when your corp was still making frigates. Which is irrelevant - this thread is about Moo, so let's not change the subject to Tank and Dragons, eh?
Have you attacked Moo?
Why do all you people want us to do your dirty work? One or two corps have attacked Moo - kudos to them - but most of you have just complained that we haven't attacked Moo.
Nobody buy Heff's BPs, he hasn't attacked Moo! "Duh"
Pot, kettle, black.
P.S. The BP idea sounds good to me. What BPs do you sell? How many copies will you give to somebody who pods a moo? Maybe you should offer originals for podding Ywev and Zap, they have pretty good ships. Put your money where your mouth is!
Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 27/06/2003 19:00:57
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Heff
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Posted - 2003.06.27 19:08:00 -
[59]
"This thread is about moo"... BZZZT! Wrong again Johnny! Look at the title: it's about TTI, and piracy, and the fact that TTI is turning their back on it.
Never mind me and my corp... we don't pretend to be anything we're not and we don't mislead people into believing things that are not true.
In any event... this thread is so beat up you couldn't find the point if it smacked you on the ass. All I see now if the doublespeak I've come to expect from TTI.
.
Heff
Co-CEO Playboy Enterprises
[email protected]
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.06.27 20:15:00 -
[60]
Prophex, regarding "atlas shrugged". I'm sorry but if your own convictions are not enough and you have to read a book like that to find your way in life you need some self help books too. The book is at its core totally contradictory to itself. You can't just pick and choose philosophy parts and combine them all together. The thing you loose is common sense when you do that. The technical aspects of piece working all of it together makes it more complex then anything else that exists. You start laying down fundamental rules that cannot contradict each other. As time goes on the additions to these guidelines end up reading like a lawyers journal. The complexity it forms in the end bypasses the whole reason it started to begin with. Then add in a little of different peoples understanding and biases and you end with a mound of nothing. The mound is where I see TTI hiding right now. The most primitive solution is more than likely the best in any given situation. Its just finding it that is hard. The common sense look at it would be the pros and con's and what weight they each have. The least bad effects from a decision is not always going to be your path of least resistance. You did right by trying to tell people that you are going to follow guidelines. You just chose the wrong book to follow. If you have ten people read that book you will have ten different takes on the reasoning in it. The author took the easy way of explaining by using a story format. But this in itself leaves it open ended and open to interpretation. Just like another popular book "the bible", and you see what horrors and atrocities have been done in the name of that book. What I really want you to know is that you should have enough confidence in yourself and you corp. mates to make good decisions and not have to do it in the name of some random book. A society that has based its core off of a book has never reached very far in the evolution of man. Some have gone pretty far, but still died out. The only reason that we are at the stage that we are right now is the diversity of independent thinking. Not one book can teach you this. Not even "atlas shrugged"..............................
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
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