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Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 23:49:00 -
[1]
Yep, caps letters are needed.
CCP is likely going to nerf FW agents into "useless" again as currently on Sisi FW agents behave again like normal agents, thus declining a mission will result in a pretty heavy standing loss.
Some say, FW mission declining and browsing missions is "abusing" them. IMHO it was one of the best things to make them usefull for doing mission and combining them with any PvP related activity which IIRC was their original purpose. To get ppl into low sec.
I could live with a reduced reward but making them not "browseable" or "pickable" again is IMHO just stupid.
Yes, Im annoyed.
Propsal in the Assembly hall to keep it like it is:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1219869
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Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet.
- referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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Roffle Roffle
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Posted - 2009.11.25 00:09:00 -
[2]
This is not the missions forum. |
Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.11.25 00:15:00 -
[3]
"waaaa dont take my cash cow"
htfu
 Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 00:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 00:18:41
Originally by: Roffle Roffle
This is not the missions forum.
But it is the defacto FW forum for the most part..
As for a mission nerf, I figured it would happen but it's stupid to do. Sure there are of course people that farm FW missions, myself included. However what else in EVE do people not farm in some way or another? If EVE didn't require the constant ISK grind that it does, then we wouldn't have to farm this kinda ****.
It's not like doing them in low sec is some easy task and it's very easy for WT's to disrupt and stop you from running them. Meaning there is a check and ballence system in place.
What sucks the most, is I finally found something I can do while PVPing to make ISK and CCP is gonna take it away. Just dumb.
If they do make it so you can't turn down missions to get one in a better location, then it will pretty much make the missions a waste of time.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.25 00:50:00 -
[5]
The mission were good, too good even.
Grinding FW mission for 300 million isk/hour wasn't any problem at all. Considering the price of an EVE Time Code, that's actually a decent wage in many countries.
On the bright side, FW only LP rewards (or reduced LP rewards) will steadily increase in value after the nerf, so if you have some LP saved up (and honestly, what grinder doesn't) you'll likely to get even more for them in the future.
As for the mission itself, yeah, I'm not going to travel 15 jumps simply because that is the location they want me to do missions and then discover I can't do it within my hour online because there are some WTs about. I find all the travelling back and forth simply too boring. 15 jumps means at least half an hour of clicking warp-jump-warp-jump.
Well organized grinders will still be able to do it, the part-time FW missioners and casual players will be hit the hardest by the change.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.11.25 00:54:00 -
[6]
This isn't going to be a problem for the Caldari, given the fact that they can run militia L4s in stealth bombers. Transit isn't a problem for a ship that's invisible 99% of the time and almost impossible to catch when piloted by a competent player. Top it off with the fact that said stealth bomber can easily kite and complete the L4s with no assistance, and you still have a cash cow for the Caldari. It's a particular nerf for the Gallente, who will suddenly have to fly their heavily tanked and slow-ass ships (necessary to survive the almost infinirange missile spam and heavy ECM) halfway across the galaxy through pirate and WT-infested space, while the Caldari go on doing them merrily in stealth bombers.
<3
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:03:00 -
[7]
Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:07:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:07:16
Originally by: Future Mutant
Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.
No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.
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Lana Trollin
Minmatar
Grabbing Hands Stealing Klubb
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ralnik
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:07:16
Originally by: Future Mutant
Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.
No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.
FW carebear tears D-tected amirite go can get +1 intarwebz pls k thxbai
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ralnik
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:07:16
Originally by: Future Mutant
Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.
No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.
I too want a huge amount of isk per hour with as little work as possible. Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:27:43
Originally by: Future Mutant
I too want a huge amount of isk per hour with as little work as possible. Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!
I dunno where you fly but I damn sure don't see that many people actually farming FW missions. I damn sure don't know of anyone making 10 bil a week from it either.
IF there are a few people or groups doing this, then "THEY" should be delt with rather than screwing everyone else that does it as a means to support their game play.
CCP could easily limit the amount of missions a agent will give each player with out screwing the rest of us over simply because a few abuse a good thing.
BTW.. you take top award for whinage in this topic.. You are actually crying about other people crying and then crying some more.. Awesome job.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 25/11/2009 02:01:54
Originally by: Ralnik
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:27:43
Originally by: Future Mutant
I too want a huge amount of isk per hour with as little work as possible. Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!
I dunno where you fly but I damn sure don't see that many people actually farming FW missions. I damn sure don't know of anyone making 10 bil a week from it either.
IF there are a few people or groups doing this, then "THEY" should be delt with rather than screwing everyone else that does it as a means to support their game play.
CCP could easily limit the amount of missions a agent will give each player with out screwing the rest of us over simply because a few abuse a good thing.
BTW.. you take top award for whinage in this topic.. You are actually crying about other people crying and then crying some more.. Awesome job.
Crying? no im laughing at the tard parade.
Wave to all the ppl- theyre laughing at you not with you.
But while were on the subject- how exactly could ccp keep the "potential" isk per hour up and yet somehow "restrict" someone (or groups of someones) from making that much per hour?
Even you admit that fw as it is- is a "good" (meaning overpowered) thing
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iudex
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Posted - 2009.11.25 02:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Garr Anders
Yep, caps letters are needed.
CCP is likely going to nerf FW agents into "useless" again as currently on Sisi FW agents behave again like normal agents, thus declining a mission will result in a pretty heavy standing loss.
Some say, FW mission declining and browsing missions is "abusing" them. IMHO it was one of the best things to make them usefull for doing mission and combining them with any PvP related activity which IIRC was their original purpose. To get ppl into low sec.
I could live with a reduced reward but making them not "browseable" or "pickable" again is IMHO just stupid.
Yes, Im annoyed.
Propsal in the Assembly hall to keep it like it is:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1219869
a) This change (if it happens the way you describe) is overdue and gets things back in line. Before that 0-standing-loss-change happened, it was possible to do ~3 FW level 4 mission per hour, for Caldari they paid up to 18k LP, around 45k LP/h in average. 100 million isk per hour is still a nice way to make isk, whereas the current mechanics are way out of hand and lead to a LP value drop and lower agent LP payment (16k instead of 18k for the same agent due auto-balance) but huge profits for a few, that are out of balance in terms of risk-vs-reward (since you don't have to risk much to do those missions).
b) The original purpose was to get more people into lowsec. But the high reward apparently didn't serve the purpose. At any give time there were at best a few dozens people doing that missions in the main Caldari pipe (innia-eha-oicx-vlill..) for example, while many hundreds of people continued to do their low-paid level 4 missions in highsec Caldari mission hubs like Motsu or Irjunen. You can offer the bear 3x the isk, but he still doesn't care, the care-bear apparently doesn't think like a homo economicus, attempts to direct his behaviour by offering better and more profitable chances have failed.
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My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.11.25 03:24:00 -
[14]
Yay, everyone ignores me.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 04:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: iudex
b) The original purpose was to get more people into lowsec. But the high reward apparently didn't serve the purpose. At any give time there were at best a few dozens people doing that missions in the main Caldari pipe (innia-eha-oicx-vlill..) for example, while many hundreds of people continued to do their low-paid level 4 missions in highsec Caldari mission hubs like Motsu or Irjunen. You can offer the bear 3x the isk, but he still doesn't care, the care-bear apparently doesn't think like a homo economicus, attempts to direct his behaviour by offering better and more profitable chances have failed.
I disagree with you on this part, because there are people all over the back systems in the Amarr/Minmatar side which were never there before. I used to roam all through the back systems prior to the mission buff and would hardly ever find anyone. Now it's hard to go 2 to 3 jumps with out finding at least one WT if not a few. Not to mention the pirates and so on that now hang out in these same mission system trying to gank the mission runners.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 04:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kora Zilesti
This isn't going to be a problem for the Caldari, given the fact that they can run militia L4s in stealth bombers. Transit isn't a problem for a ship that's invisible 99% of the time and almost impossible to catch when piloted by a competent player. Top it off with the fact that said stealth bomber can easily kite and complete the L4s with no assistance, and you still have a cash cow for the Caldari. It's a particular nerf for the Gallente, who will suddenly have to fly their heavily tanked and slow-ass ships (necessary to survive the almost infinirange missile spam and heavy ECM) halfway across the galaxy through pirate and WT-infested space, while the Caldari go on doing them merrily in stealth bombers.
<3
Just because you can, doesn't mean everyone abuses them. I could also do TLF missions in a stealth bomber if I wanted but instead I choose to fly a BC that is fit for PVP.
I run my missions in the same fit I use for PVP which allows me to fight if I find a good target along the way. Regardless it's already been stated that the NPC's were gonna get changed so they were all pretty much the same.
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Hellfury Resurrected
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.11.25 05:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ralnik
Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!
Did somebody say R64?
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Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.25 06:03:00 -
[18]
As someone who grinded these like crazy, I agree with the nerf. Too easy, not risky. Being able to select "safe" systems allows for easy farming.
Can't wait to see Navy Domi prices skyrocket \o/
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Go Bucks! |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.11.25 06:06:00 -
[19]
Oh gawd no! Not da missions. We're all going to have to go back making money the old fashioned way! LAMEEEEEEEEEEE
Whoooo Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 06:21:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 06:23:33
Originally by: Jones Bones
As someone who grinded these like crazy, I agree with the nerf. Too easy, not risky. Being able to select "safe" systems allows for easy farming.
Can't wait to see Navy Domi prices skyrocket \o/
The reason people didn't do these missions in the past was because it wasn't worth while to do them with out being able to choose the location. If they change that aspect, it will go right back to no one running them once more.
btw just because your corp was farming FW missions with alts doesn't mean everyone is farming like you guys were. The simple solution to stop the excessive farming is to limit the amount of missions you can pull from each agent per day.
If they feel the need to nerf the missions that would be a "reasonable" way to do it with out screwing over people that aren't ISK farming. |
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Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.25 06:27:00 -
[21]
Those missions (even the Gallente ones) could be done with a single ship in 5 mins. With my alt's Social skills I was averaging 18k LP per mission. I could easily do 5-6 missions an hour. That's over 100k LP.
This nerf is needed. You can still easily do these alone, and even more easily in pairs. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.11.25 06:56:00 -
[22]
Returning something a previous state is hardly a nerf, more like a roll-back.
FW missions are far too easy to not have any penalty attributed to them and we all bloody well know it.
It was good while it lasted and I think that those that dabbled in earnest probably have 5-10M LP accumulated by now .. complaining that a "Horn of Plenty" is reduced to a "Whistle of Lots" is neither here nor there at this point.
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Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2009.11.25 07:35:00 -
[23]
Well the fw missions were slight overkill but they supposed to be issk source for fw meat grinder. And to all whiners ... Fw is the biggest isk sink in the eve ... And the biggest fun.
Ccp designers unluckily are doing it from the wall to another wall way.
Ability to refuse mission and not to travel all around the galaxy was great. Fw lowsec is pretty wild place :)
I think good option would be to limit the range of systems to which the agent drop the mission(like 4 jumps?).
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.25 08:03:00 -
[24]
They should fix this and remove all the sploiters lp, even better set it to -1m lp or something, then evemail them a message from the supreme faction rear commander with the subject 'lol'. And remove all their items gained from lp stores.
IB4 someone thinks I'm 'mad' 'srs' or 'crying'.
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
I could go for some doritos now, damn you Spank
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.11.25 08:09:00 -
[25]
CCP has a whole bunch of problems with FW. The reason is because they have no idea what they really want to do with it.
The missions are still going to have the same rewards, so if you do them as gang you should come out with the same amount of isk really. In the end they are really only nerfing pilots who like to solo. Or pilots who solo PVE nonsense and spend gangtime doing real stuff. :p
The truth is none of the FW stuff will be fixed until CCP pulls their heads out of their asses and decide what exactly it is they want from FW. That includes plexs and sovereignty, and LP and everything else thats just there "because."
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.11.25 09:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jin Nib
CCP has a whole bunch of problems with FW. The reason is because they have no idea what they really want to do with it.
The missions are still going to have the same rewards, so if you do them as gang you should come out with the same amount of isk really. In the end they are really only nerfing pilots who like to solo. Or pilots who solo PVE nonsense and spend gangtime doing real stuff. :p
The truth is none of the FW stuff will be fixed until CCP pulls their heads out of their asses and decide what exactly it is they want from FW. That includes plexs and sovereignty, and LP and everything else thats just there "because."
This will pretty much be what will happen if they go back to the old system. The guys that are the cause of the exploiting, will continue doing it. Meanwhile all the people doing it as intended to fund our PVP will get the nerf.
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Parmenides Elea
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.11.25 09:35:00 -
[27]
I have no problems with the roll back as long as they even the playing field with the rats. The fact caldari can do thier missions in a cloaky stealth bomber means nothing will change for them other than having to go a few more jumps in relative safety. Either allow all factions to do the same by nerfing the navy's to the standard of the gallente OR buff the gal navy to stop lvl 4 fw missions being completed in a stealth bomber.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.25 09:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Parmenides Elea
I have no problems with the roll back as long as they even the playing field with the rats. The fact caldari can do thier missions in a cloaky stealth bomber means nothing will change for them other than having to go a few more jumps in relative safety. Either allow all factions to do the same by nerfing the navy's to the standard of the gallente OR buff the gal navy to stop lvl 4 fw missions being completed in a stealth bomber.
Theres already a mechanic in place to reward missioners for doing harder missions. I dont see the benefit of nerfing the npcs- it would just end up nerfing your rewards.
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Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.25 10:28:00 -
[29]
Gallente and Caldari NPCs may need balancing.
Maybe the reward needs a balancing (if CCP think it is to high).
This is about HAVING A TOOL IN A SANDBOX TO PLAY WITH.
In my link some of you dont seem to bother to read I stated out something very important:
Originally by: "Garr Anders"
An example setup for a mixed PvP/FW/plexing corp operation.
Rallypoint is a top station.
FW mission are gated by acceleration gates just like plexes.
Pick lvl of FW mission according to your fleet composition.
- Everybody pick a FW mission targeted.
- Move there in a fleet with scouts +1 or +2, to make sure gates are clear and the "heavier" stuff can pass.
- Alternatively go out in SBs only
- Kill targets of opportunity, avoid drawing attention from bigger fleets.
In your target system:
- Assign one speed tank and dps per mission.
- Have scouts checking the systems around for early WT warnings
[*] Have fast tackle on gates to grab targets of opportunity
[*] Check for plexes in system
This will allow you to:
[*] Gain standing via plexes and FW mission for higher FW mission agents
[*] Gain LPs via the missions
[*] Roam around for solo PvP
[*] Having scouts out independent from militia chat and on Eve Voice in Fleet
[*] Have back up for small gang in case solo isn't possible
[*] Take plexes and contest systems annoying the Amarr
[*] As FC: Gives yourself an objective that can be achieved and the whole fleet a purpose, which you can announce so the whole fleet can work toward achieving your objective.
This whole operation doesnt need a lot of ppl.
Feel free to grab ppl from trustworthy militia members (use common sense and take ppl who are a bit more patient) but make sure that your corpies are the dominant force (so never take more from the militia as you have corp mates in gang). The predominance of your own corp members allows you as FC to enforce your operation goals, while at the same time showing the militia/non corpies that plexes, FW missions and PvP can be combined to a fun operation with a goal rather than sitting hours on a gate.
Although it significantly lowers your LP income and standing increase by sharing, this is still more than sitting on gate.
You can speed this up by announcing such an operation a day ahead (feel free to use corp mail) so ppl can browse for good missions in your target system before you go out. FW mission will stay 24hours in your journal. Failing, not responding will not result in an standing loss.
So rather than gate camping/station games/or aimless roaming around your fleet will have an target system(s) an objective, as well an incentive to PvP.
If you as an player are the opinion that I in FW am earning to much ISK or better LP, feel free to shoot me!
Im in low-sec!
I got NPC aggro!
Not gate guns!
No need for a scanner the beacon is visible to everybody, yes including neutrals!
These are not untouchable lvl4 high sec mission in motsu, Im there waiting for you to come to shoot me! But if your opposing faction militia is too stupid to look out for you and let one side grind all LPs rather than stop them its the PLAYERS own fault.
Hey! That would be like ... PVP in a SANDBOX !
Ppl are asking to shoot misions farmers, so there they are!
Where are those griefers if you need them but going up against a target in militia beacon is to "difficult"?
-----
Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet.
- referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.11.25 10:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Parmenides Elea
I have no problems with the roll back as long as they even the playing field with the rats. The fact caldari can do thier missions in a cloaky stealth bomber means nothing will change for them other than having to go a few more jumps in relative safety. Either allow all factions to do the same by nerfing the navy's to the standard of the gallente OR buff the gal navy to stop lvl 4 fw missions being completed in a stealth bomber.
CCP has stated that they wanted to have missions have diverse solutions (ie other go there in a BS and shoot stuff). This is about the only case where I think they've succeeded. Removing cycling from the game will also eliminate the ability to choose solely SB missions anyway so you kinda get your wish. You cant do any old mission in an SB, and you have to fit the bomber for PVE (sensor dampening is still an issue though not as crippling as perma jams) so it's not as pat and simple as you make it sound. Also Gallente can run them in groups I assume if some one takes the agro and others shoot? Given that this is going to be the new norm it seems CCP has that fixed  .
What is ******ed is that fitting ECCM mods wont help against NPC ECM, but that I imagine is a huge fix and unlikely to happen, ever. (I still don't get why they didn't use the player mechanics for it when building it in the begining but whatever)
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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