Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

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So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

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Originally by: Roffle Roffle

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This is not the missions forum.

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Originally by: Future Mutant

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Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:07:16

Originally by: Future Mutant

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Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.

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No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:07:16

Originally by: Future Mutant

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Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.

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No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.

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Originally by: Future Mutant

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I too want a huge amount of isk per hour with as little work as possible. Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:27:43

Originally by: Future Mutant

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I too want a huge amount of isk per hour with as little work as possible. Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!

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I dunno where you fly but I damn sure don't see that many people actually farming FW missions. I damn sure don't know of anyone making 10 bil a week from it either.

IF there are a few people or groups doing this, then "THEY" should be delt with rather than screwing everyone else that does it as a means to support their game play.

CCP could easily limit the amount of missions a agent will give each player with out screwing the rest of us over simply because a few abuse a good thing.

BTW.. you take top award for whinage in this topic.. You are actually crying about other people crying and then crying some more.. Awesome job.

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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Yep, caps letters are needed.

CCP is likely going to nerf FW agents into "useless" again as currently on Sisi FW agents behave again like normal agents, thus declining a mission will result in a pretty heavy standing loss.

Some say, FW mission declining and browsing missions is "abusing" them. IMHO it was one of the best things to make them usefull for doing mission and combining them with any PvP related activity which IIRC was their original purpose. To get ppl into low sec.

I could live with a reduced reward but making them not "browseable" or "pickable" again is IMHO just stupid.

Yes, Im annoyed.


Propsal in the Assembly hall to keep it like it is:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1219869

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Originally by: iudex

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b) The original purpose was to get more people into lowsec. But the high reward apparently didn't serve the purpose. At any give time there were at best a few dozens people doing that missions in the main Caldari pipe (innia-eha-oicx-vlill..) for example, while many hundreds of people continued to do their low-paid level 4 missions in highsec Caldari mission hubs like Motsu or Irjunen. You can offer the bear 3x the isk, but he still doesn't care, the care-bear apparently doesn't think like a homo economicus, attempts to direct his behaviour by offering better and more profitable chances have failed.

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Originally by: Kora Zilesti

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This isn't going to be a problem for the Caldari, given the fact that they can run militia L4s in stealth bombers. Transit isn't a problem for a ship that's invisible 99% of the time and almost impossible to catch when piloted by a competent player. Top it off with the fact that said stealth bomber can easily kite and complete the L4s with no assistance, and you still have a cash cow for the Caldari. It's a particular nerf for the Gallente, who will suddenly have to fly their heavily tanked and slow-ass ships (necessary to survive the almost infinirange missile spam and heavy ECM) halfway across the galaxy through pirate and WT-infested space, while the Caldari go on doing them merrily in stealth bombers.

<3

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Lets just give everyone 10 billion isk per week.
CCP GET ON IT!

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Originally by: Jones Bones

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As someone who grinded these like crazy, I agree with the nerf. Too easy, not risky. Being able to select "safe" systems allows for easy farming.

Can't wait to see Navy Domi prices skyrocket \o/

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Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer

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I could go for some doritos now, damn you Spank

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Originally by: Jin Nib

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CCP has a whole bunch of problems with FW. The reason is because they have no idea what they really want to do with it.

The missions are still going to have the same rewards, so if you do them as gang you should come out with the same amount of isk really. In the end they are really only nerfing pilots who like to solo. Or pilots who solo PVE nonsense and spend gangtime doing real stuff. :p

The truth is none of the FW stuff will be fixed until CCP pulls their heads out of their asses and decide what exactly it is they want from FW. That includes plexs and sovereignty, and LP and everything else thats just there "because."

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Originally by: Parmenides Elea

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I have no problems with the roll back as long as they even the playing field with the rats. The fact caldari can do thier missions in a cloaky stealth bomber means nothing will change for them other than having to go a few more jumps in relative safety. Either allow all factions to do the same by nerfing the navy's to the standard of the gallente OR buff the gal navy to stop lvl 4 fw missions being completed in a stealth bomber.

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Originally by: "Garr Anders"

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An example setup for a mixed PvP/FW/plexing corp operation.

Rallypoint is a top station.
FW mission are gated by acceleration gates just like plexes.
Pick lvl of FW mission according to your fleet composition.

• Everybody pick a FW mission targeted.
  
• Move there in a fleet with scouts +1 or +2, to make sure gates are clear and the "heavier" stuff can pass.
  
• Alternatively go out in SBs only
  
• Kill targets of opportunity, avoid drawing attention from bigger fleets.

In your target system:

• Assign one speed tank and dps per mission.
  
• Have scouts checking the systems around for early WT warnings
  [*] Have fast tackle on gates to grab targets of opportunity
  [*] Check for plexes in system

This will allow you to:

[*] Gain standing via plexes and FW mission for higher FW mission agents
[*] Gain LPs via the missions
[*] Roam around for solo PvP
[*] Having scouts out independent from militia chat and on Eve Voice in Fleet
[*] Have back up for small gang in case solo isn't possible
[*] Take plexes and contest systems annoying the Amarr

[*] As FC: Gives yourself an objective that can be achieved and the whole fleet a purpose, which you can announce so the whole fleet can work toward achieving your objective.

This whole operation doesnt need a lot of ppl.
Feel free to grab ppl from trustworthy militia members (use common sense and take ppl who are a bit more patient) but make sure that your corpies are the dominant force (so never take more from the militia as you have corp mates in gang). The predominance of your own corp members allows you as FC to enforce your operation goals, while at the same time showing the militia/non corpies that plexes, FW missions and PvP can be combined to a fun operation with a goal rather than sitting hours on a gate.

Although it significantly lowers your LP income and standing increase by sharing, this is still more than sitting on gate.

You can speed this up by announcing such an operation a day ahead (feel free to use corp mail) so ppl can browse for good missions in your target system before you go out. FW mission will stay 24hours in your journal. Failing, not responding will not result in an standing loss.

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Originally by: Parmenides Elea

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I have no problems with the roll back as long as they even the playing field with the rats. The fact caldari can do thier missions in a cloaky stealth bomber means nothing will change for them other than having to go a few more jumps in relative safety. Either allow all factions to do the same by nerfing the navy's to the standard of the gallente OR buff the gal navy to stop lvl 4 fw missions being completed in a stealth bomber.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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This will pretty much be what will happen if they go back to the old system. The guys that are the cause of the exploiting, will continue doing it. Meanwhile all the people doing it as intended to fund our PVP will get the nerf.

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Originally by: Future Mutant

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Theres already a mechanic in place to reward missioners for doing harder missions. I dont see the benefit of nerfing the npcs- it would just end up nerfing your rewards.

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

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So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

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Originally by: Bad Messenger

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And missions reward has been nerfed already , at the start you got about 20k lp / mission now you get under 15k / mission, Some missions give only 5k lp.

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Originally by: Bad Messenger

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Just nerf that decline part, it makes FW farmers heaven. Lot of income , not much risk. I am sure you all know that most of missions are possible to do with t1 frigate + t1 cruiser combo , so it is not big loss.

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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As recent as yesterday I've seen low-skill militia alts self-destruct their capsule to travel as fast as possible from the mission agent to the target mission system and open the warp in point. After opening the warp in point, they leave their noob ship and clone back to the agent system....

Efficient, yes. Odd, most certainly.

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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As recent as yesterday I've seen low-skill militia alts self-destruct their capsule to travel as fast as possible from the mission agent to the target mission system and open the warp in point. After opening the warp in point, they leave their noob ship and clone back to the agent system....

Efficient, yes. Odd, most certainly.

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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As recent as yesterday I've seen low-skill militia alts self-destruct their capsule to travel as fast as possible from the mission agent to the target mission system and open the warp in point. After opening the warp in point, they leave their noob ship and clone back to the agent system....

Efficient, yes. Odd, most certainly.

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Just opening the mission beacon also dont complets the mission for them. As long as the objective is not done (usually a kill mission) he will get no reward.

If now somebody else is so nice to complete it for him thats something else.

But we have RR alts already in PvP, so now we have other ppl filling other ppls LP wallet?

You could just "not" complete the missions you dont know to whom they belong ?

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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Just opening the mission beacon also dont complets the mission for them. As long as the objective is not done (usually a kill mission) he will get no reward.

If now somebody else is so nice to complete it for him thats something else.

But we have RR alts already in PvP, so now we have other ppl filling other ppls LP wallet?

You could just "not" complete the missions you dont know to whom they belong ?

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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...
Obviously, this alt (the word alt kinda gives it away) has buddies set up inside the target system (or constellation) who complete the mission for him. They don't even have to be in an FW corp.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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I read about people suggesting that method on a different forum and it's rather dumb TBH. The way the Minmatar FW agents are set up, you can easily pull a mission @ Dal, head up the Hof pipe and exit out via Hek and just run high sec back to Abudban to hit the last few agents before coming back via Amamake.

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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So working in a team and setting an player created objective within an sandbox is easy income and needs to be nerfed?

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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You could also just go there and shoot those players?

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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Also Ppl working together is now an exploit?

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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...
As an RP I'm disturbed by these obvious 'farming' excesses because I simply can't make sense of them in-character nor address or counter them in an in-character appropriate way.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Also, I found that using the highest level agent and just travelling a couple of jumps was most time-efficient, especially for those of us who can maybe play 1-2 hours at a time max.

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Originally by: Bad Messenger

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BTW how the hell do you get 20 to 25k lp per mission? While I admit I don't have any of the LP bonus skills yet, I did train the other basic social skills to 4's and the most I've ever gotten was 10k LP and there are only 2 Minmatar agents that get close to that.

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Originally by: chatgris

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Edited by: chatgris on 25/11/2009 17:08:27

Originally by: Bad Messenger

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BTW how the hell do you get 20 to 25k lp per mission? While I admit I don't have any of the LP bonus skills yet, I did train the other basic social skills to 4's and the most I've ever gotten was 10k LP and there are only 2 Minmatar agents that get close to that.

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I regularly get 20k-30k per mission with the gallente agents, and I believe the reasoning for the discrepancy is this:

Most of the caldari camp eha, run one mission at a time in their stealth bombers, in and out all day long. Average completion time is 10-15 minutes per mission.

Most of the gallente run missions in blocks of 8-15 at a time, in groups to have people able to fight while jammed/RR the missile spam etc. For a group of 3 people, there is a 1.5 hour collection time, a 1.5 hour run time for about 240k-280k LP per person resulting in 70k-80k LP/hr per person.

When all the missions are handed in at the end, the server sees an overall average completion time of say 3 hours per gallente mission and pushes the LP rewards up. Since the caldari tend to run their missions one at a time, the average completion time is lower, and the LP rewards are pushed down.

It's really a product of just how exponentially easier the caldari missions are compared to the gallente ones that pushed the gallente towards running in large batches with organized groups (since we need to get a group of BS's together to run them safely, might as well grab all the missions we can to minimize the overhead of coordinating), and the caldari towards solo in stealth bombers.

Those above LP numbers are with social skills at 3-4.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Have you guys noticed that standings don't get shared in gangs? I've been using a alt in gang with me and wanted to share the rewards to help build his TLF standings but they are never shared.

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Have you guys noticed that standings don't get shared in gangs? I've been using a alt in gang with me and wanted to share the rewards to help build his TLF standings but they are never shared.

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Yes, Militia NPC corp standings does not share to chars not in the militia.
Sharing along militia members and/or corp members does seem to work.

My corp has been doing missions and sharing standing and LP for these together and that works. We use these mission to guide our new recruits into FW as well as plexing as well so far showing them a way to make at least some income while being in FW.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 18:22:03

Originally by: Garr Anders

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Yes, Militia NPC corp standings does not share to chars not in the militia.
Sharing along militia members and/or corp members does seem to work.

My corp has been doing missions and sharing standing and LP for these together and that works. We use these mission to guide our new recruits into FW as well as plexing as well so far showing them a way to make at least some income while being in FW.

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Well he is in Militia and in FW, it's the CEO alt for my corp. I was trying to grind up his standings while I was running missions, but the standings never get shared.

In normal high sec missions the NPC corp standings do get shared just not the faction standings. I haven't been able to figure out why I can't get shared standings, being he is running the missions with me. The only thing that gets shared is the LP's and ISK.

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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As recent as yesterday I've seen low-skill militia alts self-destruct their capsule to travel as fast as possible from the mission agent to the target mission system and open the warp in point. After opening the warp in point, they leave their noob ship and clone back to the agent system....

Efficient, yes. Odd, most certainly.

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Originally by: Insa Rexion

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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As recent as yesterday I've seen low-skill militia alts self-destruct their capsule to travel as fast as possible from the mission agent to the target mission system and open the warp in point. After opening the warp in point, they leave their noob ship and clone back to the agent system....

Efficient, yes. Odd, most certainly.

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so they can do it once every 24 hrs ? Hardly efficient is it ?

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Originally by: SomebodyKickedMyDog

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i've never done fw missions, but i decided to check them out after reading this thread. my agents already say i can only decline a mission once every four hours. and the rewards don't seem to be much different than regular missions. what am i missing?

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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Edited by: Merdaneth on 25/11/2009 19:11:49

Originally by: Insa Rexion

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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As recent as yesterday I've seen low-skill militia alts self-destruct their capsule to travel as fast as possible from the mission agent to the target mission system and open the warp in point. After opening the warp in point, they leave their noob ship and clone back to the agent system....

Efficient, yes. Odd, most certainly.

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so they can do it once every 24 hrs ? Hardly efficient is it ?

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They change the station of their clone and then self-destruct their pod again. If you take an unskilled alt, it doesn't cost you anything. But 2 minutes of your time.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 18:22:03

Originally by: Garr Anders

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Have you guys noticed that standings don't get shared in gangs? I've been using a alt in gang with me and wanted to share the rewards to help build his TLF standings but they are never shared.

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Yes, Militia NPC corp standings does not share to chars not in the militia.
Sharing along militia members and/or corp members does seem to work.

My corp has been doing missions and sharing standing and LP for these together and that works. We use these mission to guide our new recruits into FW as well as plexing as well so far showing them a way to make at least some income while being in FW.

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Well he is in Militia and in FW, it's the CEO alt for my corp. I was trying to grind up his standings while I was running missions, but the standings never get shared.

In normal high sec missions the NPC corp standings do get shared just not the faction standings. I haven't been able to figure out why I can't get shared standings, being he is running the missions with me. The only thing that gets shared is the LP's and ISK.

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Originally by: SomebodyKickedMyDog

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i've never done fw missions, but i decided to check them out after reading this thread. my agents already say i can only decline a mission once every four hours. and the rewards don't seem to be much different than regular missions. what am i missing?

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Originally by: Raimo

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Well with good skills and agent standings a single mission can amount up to 30k LP, 15-25k with modest skills, and you can complete 5-15 such missions in rapid succession (single mission completion 1-10 minutes, total completion time 1,5-3 hours including the gathering of missions)... and FW LP is worth more than regular LP (I'd say 2,5-4k ISK/ LP atm) so it amounts to a comfy 150-300 mil/ hour income. More than many mission runners make in a day, maybe deserving of a nerf :P

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 06:23:33

Originally by: Jones Bones

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As someone who grinded these like crazy, I agree with the nerf. Too easy, not risky. Being able to select "safe" systems allows for easy farming.

Can't wait to see Navy Domi prices skyrocket \o/

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The reason people didn't do these missions in the past was because it wasn't worth while to do them with out being able to choose the location. If they change that aspect, it will go right back to no one running them once more.

btw just because your corp was farming FW missions with alts doesn't mean everyone is farming like you guys were. The simple solution to stop the excessive farming is to limit the amount of missions you can pull from each agent per day.

If they feel the need to nerf the missions that would be a "reasonable" way to do it with out screwing over people that aren't ISK farming.

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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One of the agents gave regular 33kLP / mission. :)

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Originally by: Ralnik

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Edited by: Ralnik on 26/11/2009 08:29:38

Originally by: Muad' Dib

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One of the agents gave regular 33kLP / mission. :)

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well then that's what needs to be nerfed then and not the ability to turn down missions. I started training up a few of the extra connections skills for LP's and it upped my LP's @ best to 13k for the best Minmatar agent.

However there are many agents under 10k, most in fact, several that are in the 5 to 6k lp range for LVL4's, but I'd say average is 8k LP's is what Im' getting from the various Minmatar level 4's.

If gal/caldri are getting freaking 30k LP's then that's just insane and needs to be nerfed. I think anything in excess of 15k LP's is too much and that's what CCP about should shoot for and have the average agent give 9 to 10k LP's once you have the skills trained up.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.

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Originally by: Ellamar

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Don't you realize the consequenses of quick and easy ISK ?

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Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 25/11/2009 23:56:28

Originally by: T'san Manaan

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Edited by: T''san Manaan on 25/11/2009 22:26:57

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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I know FW costs a lot of money, hell, I spent countless billions on it and I left every once in a while to get ISK back until I got myself some extra accounts to run AFK-dominixes to rake in plenty of ISK to support my habit.

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quick CCP nerf AFK domis someones usintg them as a "free ISK" button

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As soon as they make more than 100 mil isk per hour and ruins the spirit of a whole aspect of EVE, I'd be the first one to support that.

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Originally by: Lusulpher

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Damn, FW missions are the least of 3 exploited and unbalanced ISK faucets(LvL4s in highsec, moongold!, in that order).
...
Being able to choose target system and objective would equal AVOIDING PvP at ALL COSTS.

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1. LvL4 mission: generate instant ISK as reward.


2. LvL4 mission: generate LP as reward.


3. Lvl4 mission: generate instant ISK with NPCs bounties.


4. LvL4 mission: are done in high-sec.


5. LvL4 mission: if somebody shoots/steals you, concord will kill him.


6. LvL4 mission: any neutral will have to scan you down first


7. LvL4 mission: can be done AFK


8. LvL4 mission: can generate more than 100mil instant ISK per hour if done with an ALT (loot, salvage, dualboxing)


9. LvL4 mission: can be done without any PvP


10. LvL4 mission: You only can decline missions every 4 hours without a standig loss


11. *edit*LvL4 missoin: Can be done in an NPC Corp safe from wardecs.

• A huge ISK faucet in the game will cause inflation. There is no way for the market to adapt to this in another way.

1. Factional warfare: missions *on correction* almost generate ISK no.


2. Factional warfare: missions only generate LP as reward.


3. Factional warfare: do not have bounties on the NPCs


4. Factional warfare: are done in low-sec


5. Factional warfare: if somebody shoots you, you have to shoot back yourself or die


6. Factional warfare: a beacon is visible to everybody, WTs, pirates, neutral


7. Factional warfare: mission can not be done AFK


8. Factional warfare: can generate a large amount of LP with an ALT


9. Factional warfare: can try to avoid PvP


10. Factional warfare: you can deline missions without standing loss everytime


11. *edit* Factional warfare: I am a wartarget

• A huge LP faucet in the game will lower the cost of faction items. The LP to ISK conversion will drop till the supply reaches a steady flow and the market will adjust.

1. Farming is done when something is so profitable that you do it repeatedly.

• If farming the reward for factional warfare missions for profit becomes lower than what you can do with something else with the same amount of effort ppl will stop farming factional warfare missions.
  
  If you want to stop farming, lower the LP reward.

Quote:

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Some say, FW mission declining and browsing missions is "abusing" them. IMHO it was one of the best things to make them usefull for doing mission and combining them with any PvP related activity which IIRC was their original purpose. To get ppl into low sec.

I could live with a reduced reward but making them not "browseable" or "pickable" again is IMHO just stupid.

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Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

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Turning 1 or 2 system in to a mission HUB... thats the problem. By being able to pick and choose where do to you missions you/and me pick the system we live in and farm the missions there.

We get our missions in ceptors, fly home jump in our HACs (yes Caldari I know your bombers) and do the missions in PvE fits. Dock job done.

What they are trying to do is force you to take that HAC out of your home system, working on the greed of players (I don't want to share my LP with you!) and get you killed.. If you don't get killed you get rewarded by LPs and the chance to undercut those LvL4 high sec mission runners.

I applaud this change.

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Originally by: Parmenides Elea

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eccm does not effect npc jams.

An ishkur would get torn appart by the missile barrage from the caldari navy.

You can do the missions in a domi but jumping that 7 or 8 systems (as preposed by the nerf) is a wee more dangerous than jumping a stealth bomber 7 or 8 jumps.

Bottom line either nerf the caldari and minmi rats to allow the gal and amarr factions to run missions in stealth bombers or buff the gal and amarr rats to stop the caldari and minmi running missions in stealth bombers.

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 26/11/2009 10:36:06
Ppl who do 70-80k lp / h have a very very refined setup, have been doing them since Apocrypha 1.5, and know all the ins and outs of these missions.

Personally i hate missions that take more than 5min with the above setup or that force you to rewarp. :)

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Originally by: Garr Anders

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[

• A huge ISK faucet in the game will cause inflation. There is no way for the market to adapt to this in another way.

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Originally by: X Gallentius

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Will the proposed changed reduce FW mission rewards so that they are below high sec mission runner's income?

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Originally by: Parmenides Elea

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or buff the gal and amarr rats to stop the caldari and minmi running missions in stealth bombers.

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Originally by: Raimo

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Originally by: X Gallentius

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Will the proposed changed reduce FW mission rewards so that they are below high sec mission runner's income?

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Most likely, just like it was. I don't see anyone running Gallente missions after the change. Caldaris can probably continue to do solo SB roaming with somewhat reduced income. (but still meaningful ISK)

If I run out of ISK it's squid alt time then ;)

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Originally by: Insa Rexion

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Also I have a question as someone who didn't run these missions until after apoc 1.5.

Did failure to complete the missions inside the 12 hour window result in a standings hit as declining or quitting did ?

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Originally by: Insa Rexion

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Sorry but nobody in Minnie is soloing level 4s in stealth bombers. Not that I have heard of anyway, I know a few have tried and failed. Amarr rats may be a BIT easier than caldari and Minmatar ... but they are not as easy as Gallente blaster NPCs

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Originally by: X Gallentius

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High sec mission runners make 40 million isk/hour with zero risk of getting popped.

What should low sec FW mission runners with much more risk be able to make off of FW missions?

Will the proposed changed reduce FW mission rewards so that they are below high sec mission runner's income?

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

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So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

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Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

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While I ran the FW missions I picked up some 13-14 lvl4 and whatever lvl3s caught my fancy, while doing my morning rounds.
Total pick-up time depending on defensive plexes present averaged 1.5-2 hrs.

All those missions took about an hour to complete in a dual rep PvP fitted Sacrilege and netted ~200k LP .. best day I ever had was almost 275k LP in one sitting.

- There were NO threat to me or my ship at any time, if a hostile came in I killed him on gate/warp-in or went plexing/PvP'ing for a bit (missions last for up to 18hrs and have no fail-penalty either way).
- Tags and salvage from gathered afterwards equalled up to 6-7M per mission plex depensing on which one.

No matter how you spin it that kind of payout is so far out of touch with the rest of Eve that something severe has to be done, especially when you consider the incoming tier1 BS being exclusive to FW stores (should yield 2-3k+ ISK/LP).

Still a few days left, you can easily get a million or more LP if you do it "proper". Get to it and we can gnash our teeth after December 1st while remembering "the god old days"

---

Quote:

---

It's pretty freaking insane that running missions for Gal or Amarr nets pretty much double the LP's of running them for Minmatar.

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Originally by: Lana Trollin

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Originally by: Ralnik

---

Edited by: Ralnik on 25/11/2009 01:07:16

Originally by: Future Mutant

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Great another "dominion will ruin eve!" thread.
Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.

---

No there are just a lot of people that cant' stand doing the **** ISK grinds in this game just to be able to PVP. If we find a way that allows us to PVP with as little ISK grind as possible then you can damn sure bet we will try to keep it, particularly when this form of ISK grind allows for PVP while doing it.

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FW carebear tears D-tected amirite go can get +1 intarwebz pls k thxbai

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Originally by: KrakizBad

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My concern isnt about being able to pick missions, its more taking a standing hit when i dont complete a mission, cause of hostiles in a system ect in teh time frame i have to do missions.

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Originally by: Insa Rexion

---

Originally by: KrakizBad

---

My concern isnt about being able to pick missions, its more taking a standing hit when i dont complete a mission, cause of hostiles in a system ect in teh time frame i have to do missions.

---

Same here, I think the completion should be upped to that of hisec missions. They get days to complete a mission where there is almost zero risk of another player preventing completion. FW get 12 hours (and that translates to 2 or 3 hours for many players) to complete a mission where it is entirely possible there could be a WT blob or pirate camp preventing completion for the entire time. THIS IS NOT BALANCED and many players will just go back to hisec mission grind after taking a few inevitable standings hits which risks getting them (or even their corp) ejected from militia.

Players can find ways to deal with an occasional pirate or WT or two entering their mission whther it is killing them or legging it. But there's not a lot one can do about an enemy/pirate blob especially if you only have a couple of hours playtime. We should be given at least the same time to complete as hisec (risk free) mission runners or better yet, no penalty for failing after 12 hours... declining or quitting can stay penalised.

---

• Being able to pick a target system


• Being able to pick a mission type (kill structure, commander or industriel, or courier)


• Being able to pick the amount of reward


• To fail without a standing loss

• Increase the time to finish the missions as proposed before.


• Allow declining in a smaller time window (half an hour e.g.).

Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

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So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: Neo Gabriel

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Let slip the Navy Domis of war, for I will see you in Tama!

---

Originally by: Bad Messenger

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I tested to take Amarr major plex with that new 60k sp alt and it went fine with executioner, i had to warpout once. So i wonder how amarr still have systems .

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Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

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Originally by: Bad Messenger

---

I tested to take Amarr major plex with that new 60k sp alt and it went fine with executioner, i had to warpout once. So i wonder how amarr still have systems .

---

Cause NO ONE CARES!!!!!

I see you been there 2 days and a system is vulnerable already? Does that not show you how much no one else but you and damar care about sovereignty?

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

---

So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

---

Originally by: Bad Messenger

---

I tested to take Amarr major plex with that new 60k sp alt and it went fine with executioner, i had to warpout once. So i wonder how amarr still have systems .

---

Cause NO ONE CARES!!!!!

I see you been there 2 days and a system is vulnerable already? Does that not show you how much no one else but you and damar care about sovereignty?

---

Originally by: Bad Messenger

---

Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

---

Originally by: Bad Messenger

---

I tested to take Amarr major plex with that new 60k sp alt and it went fine with executioner, i had to warpout once. So i wonder how amarr still have systems .

---

Cause NO ONE CARES!!!!!

I see you been there 2 days and a system is vulnerable already? Does that not show you how much no one else but you and damar care about sovereignty?

---

oh, i though it was cause there was so horrible caldari npc why you gallete fail so much. but fact that fail amarr npc does not help minmatar to get systems, so whining about caldari npc can stop now c/d?

---

Originally by: Bad Messenger

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oh, i though it was cause there was so horrible caldari npc why you gallete fail so much.

---

Originally by: Bad Messenger

---

I think no, you have note that they boosted lw lp store items wich make it good.

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Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

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remember when we used to have 4 pages about fights...

NERF THE MISSIONS NOW! I've corp full of bears atm.

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Originally by: chatgris

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Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

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remember when we used to have 4 pages about fights...

NERF THE MISSIONS NOW! I've corp full of bears atm.

---

This post wins this thread! Obviously, everyone agreed, considered this thread finished, and promptly hijacked it for some good old fashioned ****ing in the wind about plexing.

If we've seen one thing... that is if plexing gave anywhere near the rewards that mission running does people would be living in them!

---

Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

---

awww BM you do sc**** the barrel in eve o. My complaint about the Caldari NPCs is we can't get a fight in a plex cause of it. Not to take the system. The only reason I would want to take a system would be to **** Damar and Pervs off. But in truth there is still no benefit to taking (or losing) a system... so I ain't going to waste time (other than ****ing you off) to do that.

I'm sure you understand this thread is about missions, but you had to get your bit in about plexing. I understand we all enjoy the benefits of missions only you enjoy plexes.

---

Originally by: Takka Ri

---

Hmmmm...

(As of this post)
Cal Mil = 5240 pilots with a total of 61.94K kills.
Gal Mil = 3599 pilots with a total of 64.78K kills.

Now who's "fail".....


Ohhhh, you mean plexing... Yes, orbiting a button batteling completely and utterly predictable NPC's is the "true" test of a militia ...

---

Originally by: Jin Nib

---

Originally by: Takka Ri

---

Hmmmm...

(As of this post)
Cal Mil = 5240 pilots with a total of 61.94K kills.
Gal Mil = 3599 pilots with a total of 64.78K kills.

Now who's "fail".....


Ohhhh, you mean plexing... Yes, orbiting a button batteling completely and utterly predictable NPC's is the "true" test of a militia ...

---

Caldari Militia averages about 100-140 people in Militia chat, who knows how many of those are carebears. At peak hours it can get to 240-250 or so. I don't think thats so different from Gals. Given the size of the fleets Gal have been launching lately I'd guess they actually have more actives.

---

Originally by: Neo Gabriel

---

Well whatever CCP does:

Dear CCP,

Thank you for all the LP, all these millions of LP I have left will be transformed, in due time, into billions more ISK that will finance mine and my buddies EVE career for a long time to come. We can now afford a decent Cap Fleet with Dreads and Carriers. We can fly gold plated throwaway T3, HACs and Logistics and not care about losing them. Every day I recycle a batch of those Arbalest HML to get minerals to build shuttles to Dodixie where I buy and fit new ships.

It has been a gruel month of LP farming, taking me back to my Highsec lvl4 roots. But rejoice! Salvation is at hand! December first will mark the dawn of a new age for FW lowsec! PVPers rejoice, for carebearing is no more!

Let slip the Navy Domis of war, for I will see you in Tama!







On another note, we will still farm FW missions in wolfpacks, as PERVS has been doing for a long time. So thank you for skyrocketing my LP stock value and my prospect of future earnings. I never knew I would make so much ISK in such a short amount of time.

Also thank you for getting rid of the vultures that joined FW just to farm my lp.

QQMOAR kthks bai.

---

Originally by: Hidden Snake

---

In reality Gals have now double the active pilots (with support of that nullsec/pies corps) like caldari ... in reality they engage only in case they can double us in numbers ... we will see the number games change after dominion :) I realy enjoy whining of galente on fanfest (yes u Evil syns) how bad boys and exploiters we are (one of the reasons nullsec warriors joined galente now). I have many friends among these nullsec boys and what i know - we might have some real turn in numbers soon

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Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

---

LOL @ YOU! Top killing corp this month shouts in again (gal vs caldari) ... and we still only have 60 members and only fly with corp only fleets (mostly). So it don't matter about numbers, it matters about willing to fight win lose or draw, and LOL in your face about fighting when we only have twice the numbers, my whole corp does not have the same numbers as your fleets do. Yet we still fight and win. Your fleets are under strict instructions not to engage wolfy rrbs fleets now, which is sad for our rrbs pilots.

And if you don't know why all these cool kids are in the gallente then your more silly than you look, which is rather sad for you. They will be gone on the 1st. So what will your excuse be now about your crappy pilots now?

Your a good pilot snake, without doubt. Caldari have many good pilots. But when you blobbed we still killed you, when gallente blob, we still kill you. When no one blobs LOREN kills you all!

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Originally by: Parmenides Elea

---

I can catagoricly state that BYDI have never had blue status with WOLFY and as far as I am aware BYDI have never set WOLFY to blue either. Ok we we've worked together on occasion but we've never been blue.

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Originally by: EVIL SYNNs

---

LOL @ YOU! Top killing corp this month shouts in again (gal vs caldari) ... and we still only have 60 members and only fly with corp only fleets (mostly). So it don't matter about numbers, it matters about willing to fight win lose or draw, and LOL in your face about fighting when we only have twice the numbers, my whole corp does not have the same numbers as your fleets do. Yet we still fight and win. Your fleets are under strict instructions not to engage wolfy rrbs fleets now, which is sad for our rrbs pilots.

And if you don't know why all these cool kids are in the gallente then your more silly than you look, which is rather sad for you. They will be gone on the 1st. So what will your excuse be now about your crappy pilots now?

Your a good pilot snake, without doubt. Caldari have many good pilots. But when you blobbed we still killed you, when gallente blob, we still kill you. When no one blobs LOREN kills you all!

---

Originally by: Hidden Snake

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Originally by: Parmenides Elea

---

I can catagoricly state that BYDI have never had blue status with WOLFY and as far as I am aware BYDI have never set WOLFY to blue either. Ok we we've worked together on occasion but we've never been blue.

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we have worked together .... that says all ... btw as i said s****to scum

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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Now let's get back to the subject at hand, which is how horribly overpowered these missions are - for the gallente peeps with their 30k lp / mission :).

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

---

Now let's get back to the subject at hand, which is how horribly overpowered these missions are - for the gallente peeps with their 30k lp / mission :).

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Originally by: chatgris

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

---

Now let's get back to the subject at hand, which is how horribly overpowered these missions are - for the gallente peeps with their 30k lp / mission :).

---

I would argue that it's not overpowered for two reasons

1) It's a result of how much more difficult these missions are and

2) I spent lots of time convincing fellow mission runners to run them in batches of 8-15 to increase the average completion time. We saw significant increases in average LP/mission as a result. If the caldari could work together and get over camping eha and getting missions one after another then they could have the same LP/mission.

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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I did notice about 3 weeks ago that the average lp / mission started to drop, then increase again. If that was you, THANKS !

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Originally by: Jones Bones

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Those missions (even the Gallente ones) could be done with a single ship in 5 mins. With my alt's Social skills I was averaging 18k LP per mission. I could easily do 5-6 missions an hour. That's over 100k LP.

This nerf is needed. You can still easily do these alone, and even more easily in pairs.

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Originally by: Takka Ri

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But hey, at lest the squids "captured" all the systems. That counts for something...right?

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Originally by: Takka Ri

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But hey, at lest the frogs lost all the systems. That counts for something...right?

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Originally by: Steve Celeste

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Originally by: Takka Ri

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But hey, at lest the frogs lost all the systems. That counts for something...right?

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FYP

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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You think that the FW mission nerf is ill-deserved ?
Well, take a look here.

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

---

So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: Jin Nib

---

It'd be nice if CCP put comma's in those egregiously unfair numbers. You know just to rub it in. Oh, and make it legible.

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Originally by: Unfamed II

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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You think that the FW mission nerf is ill-deserved ?
Well, take a look here.

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Worst part, CCP didn't really nerf the cherry picking. You figure it out.

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Originally by: Ralnik

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As it sits now farmers will keep on farming and the average player that did them for income as intended get screwed. On the flip side Im' betting Amarr/Gal LP values decline drastically very fast after Dom hit and people flood the market with all their mods/ships.

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Originally by: Future Mutant

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Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.

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Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

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They were abused. In fact this lol mechanic did not bring new FW players. It only made so that the usual known corps that tend to exploit every possible stupid mechanic also exploited these missions to get gobs of money.

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Originally by: Kuolematon

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Originally by: Future Mutant

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Damn theres a lot of 12 year old girls who play this game.

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Intresting, can you point then to me?

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Originally by: Muad' Dib

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You think that the FW mission nerf is ill-deserved ?
Well, take a look here.

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Originally by: Ziriko Keplit

---

Originally by: Muad' Dib

---

You think that the FW mission nerf is ill-deserved ?
Well, take a look here.

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Be I damned... it is so PINK!

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Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre

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Prbably a daft question but, by the Patch Notes all this does is bring back the Standings Penalty for Refusing Multiple Missions in quick succession. Does it also bring back the Standing Penalty for Failing the Mission through Timeout as well? Or the Penalty for Accepting a Mission then Telling the Agent that you're not going to do it anymore?

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

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So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: Neo Gabriel

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Unfamed II:

SHHHHHHHHHHHH!

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

---

So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: Naye Nathaniel

---

I wish to say THANK YOU CCP for making something useless right now LIKE Faction Warfare missions <3
Im not gonna jump 12 jumps, for 11k LP without bounty, and only 1+1 mln reward, to kill 10 objects, risking my ship for crappy reward.
It's a waste of time now. And I can bet NO ONE would do it, so U can even delete it :)
And im full of laugh when I see ppl selling Navy Scorp for 500 mln :] It's gonna hit the 1 - 2 bils soon <3 till there is no way to obtain LP in other ways <3

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Originally by: Naye Nathaniel

---

I wish to say THANK YOU CCP for making something useless right now LIKE Faction Warfare missions <3
Im not gonna jump 12 jumps, for 11k LP without bounty, and only 1+1 mln reward, to kill 10 objects, risking my ship for crappy reward.
It's a waste of time now. And I can bet NO ONE would do it, so U can even delete it :)
And im full of laugh when I see ppl selling Navy Scorp for 500 mln :] It's gonna hit the 1 - 2 bils soon <3 till there is no way to obtain LP in other ways <3

---

Originally by: Naye Nathaniel

---

I wish to say THANK YOU CCP for making something useless right now LIKE Faction Warfare missions <3
Im not gonna jump 12 jumps, for 11k LP without bounty, and only 1+1 mln reward, to kill 10 objects, risking my ship for crappy reward.
It's a waste of time now. And I can bet NO ONE would do it, so U can even delete it :)
And im full of laugh when I see ppl selling Navy Scorp for 500 mln :] It's gonna hit the 1 - 2 bils soon <3 till there is no way to obtain LP in other ways <3

---

Originally by: Ralnik

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umm you do understand that people were selling Faction ships long before the missions were buffed and then nerfed. The prices might go back up but they wont settle at a bil.

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Originally by: Neo Gabriel

---

Well, now that everyone seems to know it already:

CCP's "Nerf" actualy means you can't decline missions anymore. Nothing wrong with accepting and quitting them repeatedly tho. So there you go, the only thing CCP could bother to do with FW is to amke us press an extra ****ing button: Request > Accept > Quit > Request...

It makes it so much more annoying that I won't bother tod o it for a while. Im burned out of it already. I hope you guys keep exploting it for now, but I agree with Unfamed that this **** has got to stop. Enjoy it for now, because it will be fixed Soon (tm).

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

---

So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: Mortant Neros

---

LMAO!! Watch out its a carebear emo-raging!! :) OH noes, now it will be risky for me to make billions from selling faction ships, people WILL still do the missions and they will be laughing at people like you who are too scared to venture into low sec for more than a few minutes. They will get rich on your emo tears mark my words.

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Originally by: Naye Nathaniel

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Originally by: Mortant Neros

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LMAO!! Watch out its a carebear emo-raging!! :) OH noes, now it will be risky for me to make billions from selling faction ships, people WILL still do the missions and they will be laughing at people like you who are too scared to venture into low sec for more than a few minutes. They will get rich on your emo tears mark my words.

---

Did u ever done a single FW mission? IF yes then u know there are only 2 - 3 mission what u can do in "few minutes" like u say.
Rest is like:
fly 10-15 j in one way, into blob of WT's,
kill 3 ships, then another 3 ships, and structure at ending, and another 3 ships [mostly BattleShips].
Before u gonna hit one, u gonna be ganged by WT army,
yeah u Can say FLY WITH FW mates.
Of course but what is the point to do mission with reward
8k LP [only 3 of them are rewarded higher than 10k lp]
and 2 mln reward [1+1]
If u want to focus at mission tho u need like 3-4 friends [or FW mates]
thats split the LP point, 2k per each means nothing at all in risk/reward graph, cause before risk was HIGH, now is the highest and reward is still good but not enough to try it alone, they should even delete pointless missions and keep only 3-4 comming out, like every lv 4 mission from specific agent in high sec oO.
The safest mode is to do lv 3, but still im not gonna fly like 10-15 jumps to obtain 5k LP and spend like half hour in WT blob space.
They "nerfed" missions FW, ok but then, delete some pointless one.

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Originally by: Mortant Neros

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lol arent you listening, they havent nerfed anything and yes ty for asking i have done fw missions, before and after the boost. Perhaps you didnt get how to do it, you decline untill you get the right mission in the right place, now you accept then quit and request, not a whole lot of difference. Even if they had "fixed" it so you got a standing hit for failing or quitting missions there would still be people doing fw missions as it is the only source of the faction domi and so would still be lucrative, end of story.

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Originally by: Yakia TovilToba

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Originally by: Mortant Neros

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lol arent you listening, they havent nerfed anything and yes ty for asking i have done fw missions, before and after the boost. Perhaps you didnt get how to do it, you decline untill you get the right mission in the right place, now you accept then quit and request, not a whole lot of difference. Even if they had "fixed" it so you got a standing hit for failing or quitting missions there would still be people doing fw missions as it is the only source of the faction domi and so would still be lucrative, end of story.

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I didn't try that out yet and think you're a troll, but if you're right, then this "fix" is a ridiculous botching by CCP and i'd have to worry about the company that lets bunglers do the work ... but again, i'll rather think that you're the troll who doesn't tell the truth rather than to believe in such an incompetent "fix".

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Originally by: Sandslinger of CA

---

So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre

---

Originally by: Steve Celeste

---

I have tested it, accepted 2 missions in a row and quit them both.
NO entry in standings, neither for Faction or STPRO (my militia).

LOLCCP

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Originally by: Gallactica

---

Originally by: Steve Celeste

---

I have tested it, accepted 2 missions in a row and quit them both.
NO entry in standings, neither for Faction or STPRO (my militia).

LOLCCP

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Would be funny if CCP have not told anyone that for some reason the standings loss for quitting missions doesnt show until the next DT :)

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Originally by: Gallactica

---

Originally by: Steve Celeste

---

I have tested it, accepted 2 missions in a row and quit them both.
NO entry in standings, neither for Faction or STPRO (my militia).

LOLCCP

---

Would be funny if CCP have not told anyone that for some reason the standings loss for quitting missions doesnt show until the next DT :)

---

Originally by: Steve Celeste

---

Confirming that there is no "delayed" standing hit.

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Originally by: X Gallentius

---

I say we band the militias together and start raiding 0.0 to get their attention. :)

---

Originally by: Spatiopathe

---

The FW is loaded of heavy LP-farmer instead to be a pvp communauty.
I think that pvp reward should be exclusively drop by killing ennemy militia player.

---

Originally by: Spatiopathe

---

the FW have the best LP-store ever, costs are 2 at 10times less expensives..so instead make war for have good reward, they just dodge war for grind and make far more isk than other rater.

The FW is loaded of heavy LP-farmer instead to be a pvp communauty.
I think that pvp reward should be exclusively drop by killing ennemy militia player.
Actually FW design is build for goldfarmer...

---

Originally by: Hidden Snake

---

Originally by: Spatiopathe

---

the FW have the best LP-store ever, costs are 2 at 10times less expensives..so instead make war for have good reward, they just dodge war for grind and make far more isk than other rater.

The FW is loaded of heavy LP-farmer instead to be a pvp communauty.
I think that pvp reward should be exclusively drop by killing ennemy militia player.
Actually FW design is build for goldfarmer...

---

well it is more pvp then current nullsec boredom ... maybe dominion will change it

---

Originally by: uglybast

---

The only thing that needs to be nerfed ATM is the ability to do the missions in an Stealth Bomber which makes you almost invunerable to enemy FW players and pirates alike. A few mwd'ing scrambling and webbing frigs in the missions would take care of this.

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Originally by: Neo Gabriel

---

Gee garr, are you ****ing blind?

Didn't you read that there is no nerf? THERE IS NO NERF!

Just accept and then quit the mission. How hard is it for you? Stop crying, you got what you wanted, now go farm your isk. EVE needs plenty of cheap navy ships and items.

---

Originally by: Hidden Snake

---

Originally by: Neo Gabriel

---

Gee garr, are you ****ing blind?

Didn't you read that there is no nerf? THERE IS NO NERF!

Just accept and then quit the mission. How hard is it for you? Stop crying, you got what you wanted, now go farm your isk. EVE needs plenty of cheap navy ships and items.

---

I am not sure ... but it was "fixed" because in warning text is also this option covered.

|HASH!|

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Originally by: Neo Gabriel

---

Gee garr, are you ****ing blind?

Didn't you read that there is no nerf? THERE IS NO NERF!

Just accept and then quit the mission. How hard is it for you? Stop crying, you got what you wanted, now go farm your isk. EVE needs plenty of cheap navy ships and items.

---

Originally by: Neo Gabriel

---

Gee garr, are you ****ing blind?

Didn't you read that there is no nerf? THERE IS NO NERF!

Just accept and then quit the mission. How hard is it for you? Stop crying, you got what you wanted, now go farm your isk. EVE needs plenty of cheap navy ships and items.

---

Originally by: X Gallentius

---

Bastards finally did it right... They forced me to delete all my sell contracts and repost them at 50% higher price.

---

Originally by: Insa Rexion

---

is there a penalty for being unable to complete ?

---

Originally by: uglybast

---

The only thing that needs to be nerfed ATM is the ability to do the missions in an Stealth Bomber which makes you almost invunerable to enemy FW players and pirates alike. A few mwd'ing scrambling and webbing frigs in the missions would take care of this.

---