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Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:24:00 - [31] Originally by: Dracnys Furthermore you should reveal everyone who actually invests the ISK. You said that your not the only person holding money and investing it, who are the others? And the last point, tell me why you don't simply run away with the ISK. I never heard of you, and the website is brand-new, so you won't lose any rep or something. You don't provide any collateral either. Everything says RED FLAG. Most of your questions have been answered in response to cosmoray's most recent post, so, I don't really want to repeat myself. However, these points I'll go into. The players who are invested in this represent a range of people from a variety of corps or alliances, some of which who truly wish to remain anonymous lest they be targeted for their success. I could run away with the ISK, you're right. But, I'm sure somewhere, some how, someone would eventually track me down. I've watched scams happen on these forums and I know how vindictive players can be, even though this really is just a game. We, the Collective, have been discussing doing this for about 3 months now. It's only in the last two weeks that we actually started to pull together an ingame corp, website, and whatnot. We wanted it to look as proffesional as possible. The simple truth here is that we're just EVE Players who had a great idea a year ago. We've been successful and we've decided it's time to pass on the success. None of us have ever done a launch like this before. We don't do anything like this in reality. So, we laid this out as intelligently and logically as we could. What do we (I) need to do to prove this is legit? The only suggestion I can make to people is to invest the minimum so that we can invest it and make a payment to you on the 15th of January. There is nothing, so far as I can tell, that we can do to prove this beyond that. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:28:00 - [32] There is a VERY EASY way. Let me audit someone who is controlling the pooled ISK. If there is no audit then there is no INVESTMENT. Or just answer my new responses in post 29 on the first page.
Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:34:00 - [33] Originally by: cosmoray I want to audit that person. That person is me. As I've already stated, and you've ignored, as you've ignored everything posted on the website and much of what I've stated in responses, email me. Tell me what's involved and we can discuss it. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.12.14 01:51:00 - [34] So why are you moving away from the group-of-friends-all-trusting-eachother-setup to a public offering? If you're managing 1.1T isk surely you know more than 40 odd people ingame who you could approach for funds? Free jumpclone service: Thread\|Shares available!
Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Estel Arador So why are you moving away from the group-of-friends-all-trusting-eachother-setup to a public offering? If you're managing 1.1T isk surely you know more than 40 odd people ingame who you could approach for funds? It's not simply a matter of approaching more people that we already know. For the same reason that JP Morgan or Chase Manhattan weren't content to sit still with a small group of people, we, too, are not content as is. Whether you want to call it greed, ambition, or anything else, it's a matter of wanting to expand, to share our success. You are entirely correct though, we could have kept it private and restricted with no room for unlimited growth. Really, what good is success if we keep it to ourselves. Sharing it and proving that it's possible is as much a motivation as anything else. To be honest, the challenge of proving ourselves legit and successful is almost as much fun as earning the ISK itself. I really hope that cosmoray and I can come to an understanding and he'll retract his belief that this is a scam so that anyone can enjoy our success. We'll see what happens, though. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:18:00 - [36] Quote: The only suggestion I can make to people is to invest the minimum so that we can invest it and make a payment to you on the 15th of January. lol @ "I can only provide proof if you send me ISK"
ThreeEleven	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:36:00 - [37] Get out the torches and pitchforks everyone... Seriously though, I've invested quite a bit of isk with these guys for a while now and I have nothing but good things to say. Granted I would have preferred all of us to stay out of the public eye, for obvious reasons, I guess change isn't all that bad. This is an opportunity to do something with the isk that is gathering dust in your wallet and speaking from experience with these guys, its worth it. If you're interested in this venture, please ask questions so that they can be answered. If you're not interested, thanks for reading and I wish you a pleasant day.
Kwint Sommer Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Tiberizzle Quote: The only suggestion I can make to people is to invest the minimum so that we can invest it and make a payment to you on the 15th of January. lol @ "I can only provide proof if you send me ISK" Indeed. Here's a summary of this "offering" so far: Day old alt claims to be managing 1.1T and asks for more. Community asks him to prove any part of his statement, especially the 1.1T. Alt makes lots of excuses and proves nothing. Community keeps pushing. Alt says send me your ISK and I'll prove it. Offering written off as scam unless proof is forthcoming. So Mr. Alt, where's the beef? Show us you're a managing hundreds of billions and we can talk, otherwise put some more effort into your scam before you come back.
Kwint Sommer Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:43:00 - [39] Originally by: ThreeEleven Get out the torches and pitchforks everyone... Seriously though, I've invested quite a bit of isk with these guys for a while now and I have nothing but good things to say. Granted I would have preferred all of us to stay out of the public eye, for obvious reasons, I guess change isn't all that bad. This is an opportunity to do something with the isk that is gathering dust in your wallet and speaking from experience with these guys, its worth it. If you're interested in this venture, please ask questions so that they can be answered. If you're not interested, thanks for reading and I wish you a pleasant day. Well, so long as a character selling alt that has made a grand total of 2 posts in his entire history says they're legit.... I'll tell you what, prove to me that they're turning profits on anywhere near 1T ISK and I'll chip in 10B. For a little proof I'll invest 10B, for a lot I might just match Cosmoray's 100B. Until then, this screams scam.
Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.14 02:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Here's a summary of this "offering" so far: Day old alt claims to be managing 1.1T and asks for more. Community asks him to prove any part of his statement, especially the 1.1T. Alt makes lots of excuses and proves nothing. Community keeps pushing. Alt says send me your ISK and I'll prove it. Offering written off as scam unless proof is forthcoming. Please, if you're going to insult me, at least do your research. I was born on 2006.06.27, which makes me more than 2 years old. No one has given me a way to truly prove anything so, I cannot prove anything. I've told cosmoray to email me to tell me how to commit to an audit, he has not emailed me thus far. "Community" seems to consist of four players who would have everyone else believe that they are correct and everyone else is wrong. If this is a scam, then I was not told. I would like to have someone prove to me that this IS a scam. Anyone who wants to discuss this in a more civil manner may do so and I will respond to questions. But, these accusations of this being a scam are not proving, or disproving, anything. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!

Zephyrlin Caldari Gangrel Mining and Security High Treason Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir Originally by: Kwint Sommer Here's a summary of this "offering" so far: Day old alt claims to be managing 1.1T and asks for more. Community asks him to prove any part of his statement, especially the 1.1T. Alt makes lots of excuses and proves nothing. Community keeps pushing. Alt says send me your ISK and I'll prove it. Offering written off as scam unless proof is forthcoming. Please, if you're going to insult me, at least do your research. I was born on 2006.06.27, which makes me more than 2 years old. No one has given me a way to truly prove anything so, I cannot prove anything. I've told cosmoray to email me to tell me how to commit to an audit, he has not emailed me thus far. "Community" seems to consist of four players who would have everyone else believe that they are correct and everyone else is wrong. If this is a scam, then I was not told. I would like to have someone prove to me that this IS a scam. Anyone who wants to discuss this in a more civil manner may do so and I will respond to questions. But, these accusations of this being a scam are not proving, or disproving, anything. The burden of proof is on you, not the community. We are not required to prove it is not a scam, because we are not the ones asking for money. You are asking for money however, thus the onus of proof lies with you. If you want people to take this seriously, get an established name who is part of your collective to post up here. Or provide some tangible proof of the amount of ISK you have in play, and what the returns are. Otherwise this is just fluff that's amusing to read. I wouldn't invest 10 dollars of real life money, or 10 ISK of EVE money into something that offered me no proof, no gaurantee, and no peace of mind. ---------- And God said... "Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...."
Malakai Cross Cross and Cross Enterprises	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:15:00 - [42] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir If this is a scam, then I was not told. I would like to have someone prove to me that this IS a scam. Anyone who wants to discuss this in a more civil manner may do so and I will respond to questions. But, these accusations of this being a scam are not proving, or disproving, anything. This is not the real world, this is EVE. One is not innocent until proven otherwise, -especially- when one is asking other players to invest money. So far, you've done nothing to remotely convince me that you would prove a worthwhile investment. Fortune favours the cunning, not the bold.
Kwint Sommer Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir Please, if you're going to insult me, at least do your research. I was born on 2006.06.27, which makes me more than 2 years old. I have done my research. Here are the results, Quote: First post 2009-12-13 20:51:00 (in thread Infinite Investments - A Collective Investment Opportunity) You've never bothered to use that alt prior to today. Regardless of when you rolled him, he was nothing prior to today and that makes him a day-old alt. Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir I would like to have someone prove to me that this IS a scam. Regarding the rest, you are asking us for money. It is incumbent upon you to prove that this business is not a scam, not us. Thus far you have provided absolutely no substantial evidence that this is anything other than an attempt by a very long since created day-old alt to scam us. I hope you do, in fact I'll toss in 10B to 100B if you do but you haven't and you don't show signs of doing so. I offered to give you 10-100B and your response is to deride my lack of civility? My responses may be harsh but they are not unreasonable and more to the point I'm putting money on the table. I've been making harsh responses like this since before you even rolled your alt and do you know what? Legitimate businessmen have gone back and forth with me and ultimately accordingly gotten investment with the single exception of DBANK and it would seem I was right to stick to my guns there. Conversely, every single scammer has attempted to dismiss my complaints as uncivil or elitist or otherwise objectionable which they may well be but they have a point and the honest men have addressed them and thus far you have not. So, find an auditor of some kind, prove you're profitably managing assets on the scale you claim and I'll write my apology on the back of a check. Otherwise, this is a scam and no amount of critiquing my civility will change that.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir I would like to have someone prove to me that this IS a scam. Perhaps the easiest way to do that would be to get scammed. It should be no surprise that people are reluctant to do so. Of course, even that form of proof is not expected to be available for three months, since you've structured the 'investment' so that no one who 'invests' gets their capital back for at least three months. This term limits your liability for the next three months to a fraction (15 %) of your take. Potential investors would have to wait until mid-March to find out whether or not you're willing to honour cash-out requests. Originally by: http://www.eve-ii.com/investing-with-infinite-investments IMPORTANT: Investments with Infinite Investments have a "locked in" period of 3 months. After this time, you may request the return of your ISK at the current value of the stocks. Your ISK will be returned to you after the following first of the month, but before payouts for that month occur. This is because the fund is entirely invested in products, services, and organizations around New Eden. The fund is not liquid. á á
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:24:00 - [45] Latesh, you have stated that you are the person controlling the assets/ISK/Shares. I have a proposal to you. I am one of the respected members of this forum, I have held over 60B in public funds for investors returning over 30B in dividends, and the businesses have run for more than 18 months. I have also held over 100B in assets in third party lockdowns or brokerage activities. If I was to audit your character, all information would remain private. I would not pass on any details of how you operate your businesses. I have no interest in how you make your money. I haven't broken my word on this forum. I would just tell the forum that you indeed have a sizable ISK value of assets under your control. If you agree to an audit, I would need your API details. An audit is a common practice here on MD and I myself was audited before I got my first public funds. All you need to do is send your full API details to me. You can do this in-game via eve-mail. I can then quickly report back my findings. If you do not wish to go this route, it is unlikely that anyone here will trust you with any investment funds. If you have any questions about audits, post here and we can deal with them if you are unsure or concerned about the process.
Angus McSpork Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:29:00 - [46] IBTO (In Before The Ostrich)--(well, not really) Ostrich scam pair found guilty of fraud The two men behind the "ostrich farming" scam of the mid-1990s were convicted yesterday of fraud charges relating to attempts to exploit public fears about "mad cow disease". They will be sentenced later today . Their convictions mark the end of the "ostrich mania" that followed official admissions of the potential danger of eating British beef. Brian Ketchell and Allan Walker, founders of the Ostrich Farming Corporation (OFC), had been charged with conspiring to defraud investors in an ostrich breeding scheme. Their trial at Leicester crown court began in March. Walker and Ketchell initially denied the charge, but changed their pleas to guilty on March 28. Both men, from Nottinghamshire, set up the business in 1994/95, promising investors huge rates of return from buying ostriches which they said would become a popular source of food. The business eventually attracted more than 2,800 customers and within 15 months had a turnover of ú21m. Instead of buying ostriches, however, millions of pounds of investors' money was siphoned into offshore accounts. Neither of the convicts bought ostriches themselves as a personal investment, but between them they received more than ú5.5m. Two men were acquitted of helping to run the alleged scam, brothers, Kevin and Russell Jones. The company took many orders, but in many cases the ostriches were non-existent. Of the 3,456 birds sold to customers or allocated under the farm's guaranteed chick scheme, at least 925 did not exist. OFC was wound up in early 1996 by the Department of Trade and Industry on public interest grounds. The SFO began its investigation just over four years ago. Members of the public bought ostriches at prices ranging from ú1,400 for a chick to ú14,000 for a mature breeding bird. According to the SFO, "The sales literature promised significant rates of return on breeding birds".
Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:42:00 - [47] Originally by: cosmoray If you have any questions about audits, post here and we can deal with them if you are unsure or concerned about the process. I would much prefer to discuss this in private. Not because I'm hiding anything, but, because it makes things much easier to deal with rather than needing to sort through the myriad of flames and claims of scamming. So, please, as requested no less than three times now, E-Mail me, using the address that can be found on the FAQ page of the website. We can discuss and perhaps reach a compromise. And if not, then at least we tried. Perhaps simply discussing it will at least show some intent. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.14 03:44:00 - [48] Trying to talk to you in game, but you are not accepting my convo
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.14 04:33:00 - [49] OK, I had a very lengthy in game chat with the OP about his fund. The short version is that the OP's main character recieves dividend payments each month from their investments and distributes the ISK to the investors. The OP has requested 48 hours to speak to the investors, so they can come to agreement about proving that the fund is genuine. This may or may not include an API audit. I will report back after the OP has got back to me. I would not advise players investing in this scheme until the OP has contacted me.
Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.14 04:33:00 - [50] cosmoray and I have discussed the situation and will have proper results within 48 hours. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!

Kwint Sommer Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.14 04:40:00 - [51] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 14/12/2009 04:41:24 Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir cosmoray and I have discussed the situation and will have proper results within 48 hours. That's great to hear, I'll try to free up 10B in cash on the hope that this is in fact genuine. I would like to add though that simply finding 40 people who's assets total to 1.1T and have sent you a B here and there does not prove anything other than a well orchestrated scheme. The point at which an audit truly proves something is when you show that this is a fully functioning enterprise, not merely a lot of wealthy friends discretely cycling your own money back to you. So Cosmo, please bring back proper results, not merely an acknowledgment that Latesh has wealthy friends.
Pointyhat Black Magic Mushroom Society	Posted - 2009.12.14 04:47:00 - [52] To prove that you have the ISK, just send 500 bil to me for confirmation. Thank you. --Questions are a burden to others. Answers are a prison to oneself--
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.14 11:44:00 - [53] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 14/12/2009 11:45:12 The OP evidently got a lack of experience in public investments, but there's a lack of information derailing MD people attempts at grasping the whole breath of the operation (assuming it's not a giant scam). If I had been a perspective Investor, I'd demand an audit off an Auditor. An "assets check" or whatever has been mentioned so far is going to guarantee the following: Nothing. Better, since this is a vastly branched operation, there could be a need for 2-3 of them and for a period to be disclosed after a pre-feasibility assessment. Moreover, being this an operation multiple times as bigger than the already huge Bad Bobby's one, public investment would suggest a Board Of Trustees to act on behalf and as mediator between the Fund and the Investors. Otherwise, if everything else fails, had I been the OP I'd try bringing in someone of the likes of Chribba. If you OP really handle 1.1T and really are interested "going public", you can afford paying him a fee and offer a symbolic escrow in advance of 100-200B for Chribba to hold and release after a certain amount of time. OP, you have to understand that going from private to public involves a complete jump in quality (and added overhead), beginning with people demanding periodic reports / audits / performance statements and ending with tangible contacts to talk with. If you are not ready for this, you are not ready for public. Edits: bugs in Notepad - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.14 16:13:00 - [54] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir We, the Collective Warning! You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile!
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2009.12.14 16:24:00 - [55] Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir We, the Collective Warning! You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile! I am btw in no way connected to the OP. Besides i never could post such an offering and stay serious about it. cheers, julian
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.14 16:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Angus McSpork Members of the public bought ostriches at prices ranging from ú1,400 for a chick to ú14,000 for a mature breeding bird. According to the SFO, "The sales literature promised significant rates of return on breeding birds". If that is what you promise, I would like to buy such a bird. What's my minimum investment? Then, to prove it's legit, I can invest the minimum. When you pay a paltry sum in comparison to your claimed funds, then I know it must be legit! I will then invest to the maximum. Name it "Infinity" Ostrich, and I'll give you any amount you want.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2009.12.14 20:04:00 - [57] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir We've invested into a wide range of corps, alliances, and funds. "Other sources" is a bit misleading, I shouldn't have said it that way, but, too late now. The following is a complete list of the types of investments we've made: A Capital Ship Production Corporations Fund B Sub-Capital Ship Production Corporations Fund C High-sec Mining Corporations Fund D Low/Null/WHspace-sec Mining Corporations Fund E Moon Mining Corporations Fund F Courier Corporations Fund G T2 Item Productions Fund H BPO Productions Corporations Fund I Trading Corporations Fund J Mercenary Corporations Fund K Alliance Corporations Fund L Outposts Fundá And this is another graph (I do love the pretty pictures) showing about how much is invested into each of these: http://www.eve-ii.com/iv-type.jpg Pretty graphs don¦t impress me. Solid, verifiable numbers and transparency do - and that¦s what you need if you are serious about running a public offering. Is the collective the alliance that owns the various corporations you listed above? Are all the corporations owned by your collective? If yes, you have a structure that could be audited regularly and has assets that could be collateralised, one way or another.
Andron Blaxcor	Posted - 2009.12.15 00:02:00 - [58] Originally by: Latesh Verrinoir Profits are paid out to investors based on the percentage value of their investment into the fund. For example, if the fund is worth 100% and a player has invested 50%, they will then recieve 50% of the payout. A quick question. How do you intend to make any isk out of this? Say you double your capital and (somehow) double your profits. You then pay out half of the total profits to the new public investors. You haven't made any isk. You're 50% of the public fund has the same profit generating capability as 100% of the private fund. However, you've doubled your workload. Would you have a different payback scheme for public investors? I've also assumed you can make the same percentage profit in 2T as on 1T. Do you think this is really scalable? If it isn't, the above payment system would lose you isk. On the 'prove it's legit' side, can you provide any example of businesses we might know of that you have invested in? Being able to check that you had invested in someone MD is familiar with who can confirm this would help raise your proof level from 'zero' to 'a bit'.
Latesh Verrinoir Infinite Investments	Posted - 2009.12.15 19:57:00 - [59] After much debate and deliberation, the Collective and I have decided that we will be retracting this public offering. The Reasons: We cannot currently offer the kind of transparency and oversight that individuals like cosmoray and Kwint are clearly seeking. What we will be doing is re-organizing and getting ourselves into a proper position to re-offer this with the ability to audit and for the EVE Public to know that there is oversight. On this attempt at a public offering, we didn't realize that there would be such hostility and concern over the nature of this fund. Most of us do not follow the daily goings on in the Market Discussions and thus were unaware of how hard the EBANK scandal had hit. Obviously, we had seen the news, but, didn't think that it was as bad as it seems to be. We will continue to accept private investment, but will not post the details of that here. If you are interested, you can contact me ingame or through the email address provided on the website. Please watch for us in the future. We do intend to return with a better organized offering. And we will be contacting cosmoray in advance of our return and have him arrange a full audit. A side note: We understand how this retraction will appear to many. We will likely be labeled as fakes or scammers. Simply put, we are okay with this at this time. We know the validity of our fund and we know where we stand. No hostility from the Market Discussions group will change any of that. So, thank you for your time, I'm sorry that this didn't pan out for those of you who were truly interested. We will be back when we can offer more transparency. ----------------------------------- Invest with Infinite Investments - http://www.eve-ii.com We'll turn your investment into profit!
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.12.15 20:03:00 - [60] Haha



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