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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kaurapa
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Posted - 2009.12.14 06:34:00 -
[61]
The point that there is no way to release a patch and have it run 100% smoothly when its being interacted by 30000+ users is valid. However there are pages of threads in this forum from users who used sisi to test this patch out and said "hey ccp there are big problems - you should delay the release date and sort them.
Bugged invul ihubs and sbus.
Bugged anomolies that dont despawn.
Bugged outposts.
Were all reporting in the testing phase. The reason so many people are upset is that the issues brought up were ignored by ccp pre-patch release.
I know I would not expect a 100% perfect release but i do expect ccp to acknowledge and correct bugs that are known to exist and have been reported to them before said patch is released.
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Such'A'Kawaii'Morning
Apostrophe's on Everything.
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Posted - 2009.12.14 06:34:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Sister Megarea
Originally by: Bitzan
Why Does CCP not test this out ? CCP make a huge patch that deals with sov, and so far in 2 days, 2 HUGE BIG BUGS !! well, I guess we will expect and extended down time on Tuesday.
You know, sometimes, I really wish a posters' age would be right beside their name when they write here.
Have you ever written a piece of software in your life, Bitzan ? How about a piece of software that'll be used by over 30,000 people AT THE SAME TIME ?
Why is it so difficult for the tykes to understand that there IS a test server: It DOES get tested, but it is NOT like the live environment.
As someone else pointed out: It may get banged on by 300 people on test and they'll nail quite a few critters in the works before it goes live, but there WILL be unexpected glitches when 30,000 people with 30,000 different computer configurations take a crack at it.
Don't like playing with the big boys and girls in a live environment, Bitzan ? Get yourself a Wii or an XBox and go play Lego Starwars. 
All this talk about there not being enough people on test server to find these problems is bull****.
It takes one person to find out his anomaly isn't despawning like it should. It takes one person to shoot an invulnerable structure and find out it's taking damage. It takes one person to shoot another invulnerable structure and find out it's taking damage. Whiteknight ccp all you want, but the fact that they couldn't have one person shoot one ****ing object that's part of the focus of the expansion during all their testing speaks volumes. That's being lenient. There's still two other huge sov related bugs that never should have gotten past QA.
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Jugger Takashi
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.14 06:56:00 -
[63]
I can cofirm that CCP has now hired 50,000 new eployees to play the roles of TQ-Live, their new BH team. They will be snooping around to find all the little exploits, fits, ships and weird move all of us do on TQ to replicate that on sisi. This include moving several hundred if not thousand of ships at high speed trough nullsec to make sure **** dont break. They will also use months and years to build up stuff and infrastructures after a sisi patch, to make sure they work. Next patch for TQ is thus expected to hit launch around February 18th, 2102
Cry me a river, jizuz christ the average forum-age is got to be 12.
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Jugger Takashi
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.14 07:03:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Such'A'Kawaii'Morning
All this talk about there not being enough people on test server to find these problems is bull****.
It takes one person to find out his anomaly isn't despawning like it should. It takes one person to shoot an invulnerable structure and find out it's taking damage. It takes one person to shoot another invulnerable structure and find out it's taking damage. Whiteknight ccp all you want, but the fact that they couldn't have one person shoot one ****ing object that's part of the focus of the expansion during all their testing speaks volumes. That's being lenient. There's still two other huge sov related bugs that never should have gotten past QA.
Ey, man, sit down on that chair that mummy bought you, you know, the one with the toy steering weel and little oink-oink horn. Then take the time to look at the effort put in to BH. Then realize that much of such is done on a voulantary base and that thinking of every little scenario and ring effect of every little change is damn close to impossible to predict. There are noumerous programmers all working together and pieceing in their little code. Not every little change is gonna fit right in, and not all of these mistakes are gonna be found. Some of them takes long to find aswell, making it an impossible BH task.
Afaik BH are given a list of tasks to test and report back, and cant cover every little bit of code. Try placing 200 champagne glasses in a pyramid form, then drop a bowling ball into the pyramid. AND YES, I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY GLASSES BREAK AND HOW THEY BREAK, ASWELL AS HOW MANY ARE LEFT UNTOUCHED. Aight ?
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Dasola
Minmatar
Equitatus Of Apocalypse
Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.12.14 07:21:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kaurapa
The point that there is no way to release a patch and have it run 100% smoothly when its being interacted by 30000+ users is valid. However there are pages of threads in this forum from users who used sisi to test this patch out and said "hey ccp there are big problems - you should delay the release date and sort them.
Bugged invul ihubs and sbus.
Bugged anomolies that dont despawn.
Bugged outposts.
Were all reporting in the testing phase. The reason so many people are upset is that the issues brought up were ignored by ccp pre-patch release.
I know I would not expect a 100% perfect release but i do expect ccp to acknowledge and correct bugs that are known to exist and have been reported to them before said patch is released.
Lol, when apocrypha came out, there was people on test server reporting problems, and suprise suprise ccp didint even bother to fix them. So i really fail to see use of test server if reports are simply ignored. And about this soverinity structure attack exploit, i think ccp has enough developers even to test this out.
---
We mine, we grind, we build, we destroy
Always recruiting new industrial minded players, ingame contact: Dasola |
sirmcannon
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Posted - 2009.12.14 07:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Winters Chill
This expansion is buggier than a friday night on Klindathu.
starship troopers ftw!
man it makes me wonder how come being such a big universe of people playing game, and they cant actually come with, not a good, ill settle for decent, patch. All i hear now is at least its not like the dragon patch, but seriously its such a female canine to try and log on after every patch. i could understand that happening at first but every single patch? makes me wonder if bill gates owns a part off ccp and theyŚll come out w eve 7 in june of next year.
FYI, according to wikipedia the word for female canine is *****
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2009.12.14 07:27:00 -
[67]
Gut feeling is this is symptomatic of CCP's devs not being that familiar with the codebase. Why do I say they aren't? Well they've all but said as such in the past:
Apoc was going to have virtual arena's in highsec (a highly flameable subject I know), they programmed it and everything then discovered TQ's backend couldn't actually deal with virtual objects. It's the same reason a cap ship can't carry multiple players despite being massive enough to logically do so.
For many years corps and alliances asked for the ability to put adverts on the billboards. So instead of the Pax Armar, Boosters, Most Wanted and such animation it'd do something... useful. CCP pretty much said they didn't know where the code that runs them is in codebase; hence despite the gfx overhaul they're displaying pretty much what they have done for several years.
So it's no great surprise that these things are crawling out the woodwork.
Why CCP didn't delay Dominion is probably, in part, due to PR. EVE is pretty much the #2 MMO going. That means a lot of media attention is focused on it. That same media is only to happy to then stop lavishing praise and get vicious when a delay is announced.
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Karmic Enigma
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Posted - 2009.12.14 07:28:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Karmic Enigma on 14/12/2009 07:30:23
Originally by: Dasola
And considering they advertise game with fleet fights of thousands of pilots. I dont know other countrys laws, but in mine thats false advertising if they dont deliver it. And that opens up bossibility of being sued. Not nice.
CCP please work on fixing this or stop advertising falsely.
Yea, if law were aplyed like math...
A judge will ask the opnion from specialist on the area and most, if not all, would say that such a huge modification in software can lead to bugs and bugs aren't auto-correted by the hand of God...
Good luck with sueing CCP useing that argument, the judge will laugh at you.
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Nikbul
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Posted - 2009.12.14 08:13:00 -
[69]
And please, fix an issue with EVE voice and sound overall. It's just not working.
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Angst IronShard
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Posted - 2009.12.14 08:16:00 -
[70]
Good luck at you CCP.
Fix it quickly and proper, thx
The complainers will shut up 'cos they could not exploit anymore, crap for them, good sake for us.
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Anka Mizuioko
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Posted - 2009.12.14 08:17:00 -
[71]
cry cry cry
just wait, theyll fix it if they want, if not, they didnt want a fix
isnt simple?
/*
and for the childish whining blobbing fraction:put 100 soldiers in a room who can hold 25 men always sucks the opponent.
stop whining and learn how to use tactics, maybe youll see, theres no need for blobbing 
*/
in words of the new generation
the music is calm feat. by age |
Saint NIk
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Posted - 2009.12.14 08:46:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Saint NIk on 14/12/2009 08:46:18
What I found interesting is how most of the people who have been complaining on this post have been from major alliances...there are a couple who act like adults but the rest act like little kids when one of their toys are broken. To be completely honest I think they should have a cap on every system, I can figure out a nice compromise if I had time but not much considering I have a court case in an hour. Maybe have "upgrades" with population limits in 0.0 space in conjunction to starbases (POSes) but that could get complicated quickly, well good luck CCP with the bug squishing.
Complainers please stop getting angry at CCP who (have made/is making) a game which you have been playing for months if not years. Seems a little funny that people are complaining and yet doing nothing...all talk, no show... if you hate the game then quit, but if you want to act like you are worth anything then just man up and wait, patience is a virtue that children don't know...and the wisest have mastered. 
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Tresiantian
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Posted - 2009.12.14 08:59:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Such'A'Kawaii'Morning
All this talk about there not being enough people on test server to find these problems is bull****.
It takes one person to find out his anomaly isn't despawning like it should. It takes one person to shoot an invulnerable structure and find out it's taking damage. It takes one person to shoot another invulnerable structure and find out it's taking damage. Whiteknight ccp all you want, but the fact that they couldn't have one person shoot one ****ing object that's part of the focus of the expansion during all their testing speaks volumes. That's being lenient. There's still two other huge sov related bugs that never should have gotten past QA.
I can tell you've never beta tested a game before; otherwise, you wouldn't be saying that.
Just because you have six hundred or more beta testers doesn't mean they'll find every bug. For all YOU know, the bugs we are experiencing right now in Live weren't present in the test server. That HAS happened before, I recall one time back in EQ2, when they were testing out new zones on the test server - it worked like a charm. They released it into the public, and suddenly discovered all sorts of bugs that hadn't been there.
This is because your going from a test enviroment to a live enviroment. Also, just because you have beta testers, doesn't mean each and every one of them will think of something to test. There have been times when I've beta tested games before and never once thought of trying to shoot through a wall to see if the collission box is there. Or thought of seeing if the map boundries really exist.
Also, QA can't find everything - some bugs won't appear until they hit live - this is why there will NEVER (Read my lips: N E V E R) be a game that'll be released bug free. It's impossible, you'll never find every single bug in test. Even single player games that have a solid release have bugs, even console games that have solid release's have bugs (Most notably: Halo - ODST. I noticed some bugs when playing through the campaign, very minor, and not really game breaking, but a bug none the less)
That being said, I highly doubt CCP expected such wide scale bugs of this type. I've been beta testing now for ten years, I've seen so many different kinds of bugs, and been in both Alpha and Beta stage of testing, it is simplly amazing what Alpha testers don't find, that Beta Testers DO find. Why do BT's find stuff that Alpha's do not? No one knows, it could be that the influx of new testers brings to surface bugs that had been buried deep in the code, that are just now appearing due to the influx.
The fact of the matter is; you can't blame CCP for something that is beyond their control. You can't expect them to find every single bug in their software. And no, just because we are paying for this game doesn't mean we are obligated to get something that works bug-free. Everyone knows that you are not only playing a game but testing a product, both go hand and hand. Like with EQ2, I found more bugs that I care to admit, I was both playing the game and testing it out.
It's no different than when you buy a product from a store; it's been tested out in the labs numerious times - but a malfunction (or in software sense: a bug) can still occur.
Well, I've talked long enough. Believe what you will, but there are some of us who understand just how difficult it is for coding to WORK as it was intended to.
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Ms Pussycat
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:02:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Ms *****cat on 14/12/2009 09:02:19
I bet ya if you cry enough and threaten to leave the game they will also give you back the space you're losing too, right?
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Robert0288
Caldari
R E D E M P T I O N
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:08:00 -
[75]
I think CCP should have just owned up to begin with and say that they could not reach their dec.1 deadline and push it back to the new year. Sure they might get some heat over pushing back a deadline, but people in the end would be happy it work right, or atleast semi-right rather than end up with what we have now.
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Prince Spiderman
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:13:00 -
[76]
Exclusively from the "The Wisenheimer Kids" without reallife:
"It's a whining thread, hallelujah!"
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Loco Eve
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:29:00 -
[77]
Originally by: EnilToor
most everyone that has posted are a bunch of whiny muppets, nothing ive read is constructive.
Grow up... wait I'm sorry your 12 i forgot.
your overwhelming experience in this matter is outstanding.
get much action in the safety of your ncp staions these days?
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James Razor
Amarr
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:48:00 -
[78]
Well, it might be true that CCP can not control anything that happens when they release the patches.
But some things are pretty stupid. The standard settings for the fleet window are a catastrophy for example, also the fact that u can not seperate broadcasts from main fleet window to reduce lag that is caused by the fleet window.
And on the other side they have to mess around with faction ships and give them new (unneeded and unwanted) paintings. I realy think they should reconsider their prioritys. And 0.0 Warfare and Mechanics is somewhat more important than changes on faction ships.
CCP trys to do to much at a time and than they manage to fail at everything. If they would learn to focus and simply improve the existing game insteed of bringing all the time new buged up features they would do us and them a favour. Less whine, better game and all would be happy.
But i personaly think that CCP has to many programmers that each one can not wait to see his new imba idea implemented and that do not realy play the game nor care about the rest of the world and what it means to us players.
The whole QA-System at CCP is bugged in my opinion.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:50:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tresiantian
For all YOU know, the bugs we are experiencing right now in Live weren't present in the test server.
All bugs popping up atm have been reported way before launch.
I personally reported a bug where invulnerable structures could be shot two weeks before the expansion hit. Anomalies not despawning was reported multiple times by my alliance and others during the same time.
All bugs were present. We reported them. Nobody cared and it got rolled to tq.
----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Daralux
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:53:00 -
[80]
So many tears
Really HTFU  it will be fixed, it's quite common for new things to not work 100% 
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Lusulpher
Blackwater Syndicate
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.12.14 09:59:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 14/12/2009 10:01:00
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Tresiantian
For all YOU know, the bugs we are experiencing right now in Live weren't present in the test server.
All bugs popping up atm have been reported way before launch.
I personally reported a bug where invulnerable structures could be shot two weeks before the expansion hit. Anomalies not despawning was reported multiple times by my alliance and others during the same time.
All bugs were present. We reported them. Nobody cared and it got rolled to tq.
I was about to say, CCP should simply delete all posters' comments about bugs who have NOT POSTED ANY REPORTS(myself included)...
But what would be the point? You guys are just here to whine. Do something constructive, like play SiSi like you play TQ, come up with a balanced functional bountyhunting system, or vote in Assembly forum?
Oh and learn to program software like EVE so when EVE dies, CCP can be amazed at your gleaming pile of code. -_-
*And use the Edit button to correct spelling and typos dammit, these threads look like 12yr olds rubbed off on some walls. The red underline means to use spellcheck.*
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Gordo Fartis
Caldari
13th Squadron
E C L I P S E
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Posted - 2009.12.14 10:07:00 -
[82]
It seems that most people complaining about the release of dominion are either unaware of how complex this software is or willfully ignore the issue.
If CCP had delayed Dominion until the end of the century we would have still gotten many bugs when deployed to a live environment that deals 30000+ players interacting with the software several times per millisecond in thousands of different ways. It is NOT possible to do this on a test environment with a limited number of testers.
Many bugs have been reported on treads and anyone who has dealt with complex systems will understand that the problem is replicating what happens... it seems to me that people have the idea that if someone reports a bug the only thing that CCP developers have to do is go back to the code on that bit that says soverany (for example) and fix a couple of lines . The issue is most likely try to understand what is causing the results, in other words how the different parts for the software interact to produce the end result and this is not an easy task..
Give CCP some breathing space and keep reporting so they can fix the issues and stop whining...
And if you are so feed up with how things are could you, when you quit, give me your stuff... I Will certainly continue playing
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Depili
Blood Works Inc.
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:01:00 -
[83]
Does CCP write unit tests for their code? I would say no
Does CCP write integration tests for their code? I would say no
Does CCP write functional tests for their code? I would say no
Many of the bugs in code should have been caught by running the automated test cases and not rely on someone logging in the test server and seeing if the ihub becomes invulnerable as SBU is destroyed...
From what I have read from dev blogs ccp doesn't seem to have any testing framework setup to test things.
And for the uninformed automated testing means testing the various coded functions/classes or modules with code and checking that they do what they are supposed to do and that no new code broke the old stuff. This testing shouldn't even involve the eve GUI for the most parts (shocker, there are methods to test stuff without having to shoot a structure for hours on a test server!) Good automated test framework is a bliss for developers.
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Sazumaan Johnza
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:12:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Depili
Does CCP write unit tests for their code? I would say no
Does CCP write integration tests for their code? I would say no
Does CCP write functional tests for their code? I would say no
Many of the bugs in code should have been caught by running the automated test cases and not rely on someone logging in the test server and seeing if the ihub becomes invulnerable as SBU is destroyed...
From what I have read from dev blogs ccp doesn't seem to have any testing framework setup to test things.
And for the uninformed automated testing means testing the various coded functions/classes or modules with code and checking that they do what they are supposed to do and that no new code broke the old stuff. This testing shouldn't even involve the eve GUI for the most parts (shocker, there are methods to test stuff without having to shoot a structure for hours on a test server!) Good automated test framework is a bliss for developers.
Actually they do.
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Elain Prime
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:14:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Elain Prime on 14/12/2009 11:14:45
"omg ccp, you sure you can handle this game make it open source and we make it better"
hope you can fix this soon i am not good at math. (count the sbu in system)
atm this release is really buggy.
good luck
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ZOGYBOY
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:15:00 -
[86]
Totally agree to Heimer Drago.
I cannot understand how you ppl could think Dominion would work since day 1. There are allways tons of bugs with new releases. I read here someone saying: "they shouldn't had released it on 1 Dec. until it was bugfree". Well, i think they did a great job releasing it the day they said they will.
I had some problems with some strange bugs who in really don't know how many of you had, because i asked all my friends and they had no problems. And i posted a Thread and in 2 days, they released the new patch with my bug gone. So... THX a lot EVE team. U are the great. I'm a noob. I'm playing only for 2 months but i'm very sattisfied with how the Eve team manages to get all the things write in a way or another.
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Das Coperial
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:23:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Dasola
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Originally by: Cypherous
Originally by: Traderjohn
The IHubs are bugged with regards to upgrades. However Can we start by getting other things right instead of issues with IHubs. For starters: The Capacity of systems.
Meaning - Everytime we are about to have a fight of over 300 in local (total or more) the node freezes, Lags and then dies.
CCP then refuse to reimburse ships lost in combat in these situations. This is a daily issue with local capacities being unable to take any combat action.
How are you proposing this is fixed, by allocating ever system in EVE a dedicated node just incase 1000 people decide to have a battle in that system, there is a way to report the fleet battles you know are definitely going to happen but i'll leave you to look for it ;)
Aside from that hope the issue gets fixed soon Wrangler :)
Before the xpak, 500 in local fighting was a bit laggy but bearable, now its 250 and things take 5 minutes to cycle off. Somethin' aint right.
And considering they advertise game with fleet fights of thousands of pilots. I dont know other countrys laws, but in mine thats false advertising if they dont deliver it. And that opens up bossibility of being sued. Not nice.
CCP please work on fixing this or stop advertising falsely.
Ya okay. I'm not sure where you went to business or law school, but in the real world you only get to sue successfully if you have actual damages.
Where did you go to school? I'd sincerely like to know.
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Satanic Evil
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:26:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Clone 1
I am getting the feeling that 'It's good enough' is the most used phrase in CCPs office.
Sovereignty
Check. It's good enough
Anomalies
Check. It's good enough
Capital Ships.
Check. It's good enough
Eve-voice lagging out eve
Check. It's good enough
Redeem items not working on website
Check. It's good enough
but what you really wanted to say is..
Since CCp is a business and they are struggling to maintain there viability, should it not read like this?
Q. will it work for a bit ?
A. Yes but you`ll be busy answering a whole new set of questions and the Gm`s will be flooded with issues!
Q. will we make a bit more profit ?
A. Cheque.
To summise i think CCp have finally lost it not only do they not document the way it should work adequately and i bet i speak for a lot of people on this one that found out the hard way waste some isk on this TCU and not even knowing that it`s getting blown to S**T even if your in the same system !
and watching a screen for more than 15 mins is that not against health advisers regulations and CCp expect you to do it for 12 hours WTF (where`s your head at)
Q. by CCP bean counters, will we make some profit ?
A. Cheque, yes people will be FORCED in some case to purchase EVE time codes to replace there lost isk ! Bean counter(s******s) therefore more revenue guys,
A. Cheque or cash
They should stop thinking about there profit margins and start thinking about there existing customer base which given the trend if they keep this up . ! IMO in 2 years and 5 months, THERE will be No more EVE period. Sad to say i enjoyed this game in the beginning but it looks as they are about to loose anoter ú60 per month as i have 4 accounts and have always paid for those.
and have achieved so much and lost more in isk value in this expansion in less time than ever in the game.
time to go Modern Warefare (hacked i know but at least i`ll know that it is) and a 1 off payment :P
:-(
Oh did i mention that CCp is hackable :P should i have said that ??
oh well you decide
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Baby Destructo
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:31:00 -
[89]
I have read almost everything that you all have said and I will admit to being only 1 month into the game. I would have to agree that I would prefer that an expansion be fully debugged and tested before releasing it. I stopped playing WOW (World of Warcraft) becuase of this and many other reasons but this was a big one. If the expansion isn't fully tested and ready to go and debugged completely them DON'T release it. It ruins the fun of the game..
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Eleanor Azuranai
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:35:00 -
[90]
This thread is whinier than my Y-T8 afterburner in it's third minute of overload.
Those of us that played Elite are mostly just grateful for solid colour graphics, nevermind stereo sound effects, and are more than happy to assist by reporting bugs (try it, you get a warm fuzzy feeling). The bleating of little arch-consumer l33tlets who would rather die than help out on the test server merely reinforces my desire to encourage CCP to make the game even more ubern00ber-unfriendly.
I miss the rookie channel where every few minutes i could watch one sickeningly selfish underage jerk after another ragequit ... oh, so sweet. This is the game i waited 25 years for, and it's great, and i'm loving it, and it just gets better. Go the Dev crew!
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