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Patrice Macmahon
Department of Defence
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Posted - 2009.12.29 23:27:00 -
[181]
I think the ULA states that you have to be operating you account when logged in and its against the rules to allow your client to operate without being at your keyboard (its an anti-macro rule in the EULA). So if you are really upset about those pesky afk cloakers, petetion them and cite the EULA after you find the appropriate paragraph...
If they wanna be a **** using the in-game rules, do the same to them.
The Intakis have an obligation to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.12.29 23:45:00 -
[182]
 Originally by: Patrice Macmahon
I think the ULA states that you have to be operating you account when logged in and its against the rules to allow your client to operate without being at your keyboard (its an anti-macro rule in the EULA). So if you are really upset about those pesky afk cloakers, petetion them and cite the EULA after you find the appropriate paragraph...
If they wanna be a **** using the in-game rules, do the same to them.
So everyone who sits in a station while AFK eating dinner is violating the EULA? I kinda doubt it.
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crashmatusow
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Posted - 2009.12.30 00:19:00 -
[183]
a ship sitting in station does....absolutely nothing. if anything you give WT's time to prepare a station camp.
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2009.12.30 00:57:00 -
[184]
Simple Solution: Delayed Local.
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Patrice Macmahon
Department of Defence
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Posted - 2009.12.30 02:46:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Patrice Macmahon
I think the ULA states that you have to be operating you account when logged in and its against the rules to allow your client to operate without being at your keyboard (its an anti-macro rule in the EULA). So if you are really upset about those pesky afk cloakers, petetion them and cite the EULA after you find the appropriate paragraph...
If they wanna be a **** using the in-game rules, do the same to them.
Nope I was wrong. There is nothing in the Eula about not being at your keyboard while the game is active. Some ofther MMO's have that rule, Eve doesn't. Their focus is on macro'ing and user interface mods.
Cool, so I guess I can station camp all I want.
There is one bit that may of use:
1.You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. - This may imply that afk'ers might pose a large load on the server database collectively when grouped together AFK. This is something for CSM to discuss though...
+)
The Intakis have an obligation to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
Dragonmede
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:13:00 -
[186]
I still haven't figured out how you can know that I'm away from my keyboard. I seriously don't think it is possible to do so.
Tonight I was out hunting can-tippers in Hi Sec (The Forge). I set up a jetcan of bait, and sat cloaked for upwards of 5 hours at a location. Just like a hunter in a tree stand waiting for a buck to come by. My reconnaissance over the past two weeks suggested that a particularly "known" can tipper would make their rounds during that time. Sure enough two volleys of Juggernauts later I had my kill.
A hunter will sit patiently for many hour waiting for that 1 shot.
Over a period of 18 hours online I was AFK a total of 80 min. I never left the system, and was on Local the entire time, yet I camped 5 belts and got a "clean" HiSec kill.
I defy anyone to tell me when those 80 min AFK occurred. You Can't Know.
So HTFU and STFU about AFK Cloaking.
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MasterCeremony
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Posted - 2009.12.30 08:25:00 -
[187]
tl;dr whole thread, but...
I can sorta see where this guy is coming from. Being able to have so much influence over a player with such little effort seems a bit broken. HOWEVER, there are ways to counter things like afk cloakers and that is simply to move out. Get a buddy to help you scout a few systems and be on your way to somewhere new. Eve's a relatively big game there's lots of other places to go other than staying in one system.
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Zab Zonk
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Posted - 2009.12.30 13:11:00 -
[188]
well someone finally got it right -> master of ceremony.
As far as the guy with 20 seconds delay for a covop in targeting ... well noob maybe ?
That explains ignoring cloaker in local ... well good for you, pro-tip keep doing that.
A covops has exactly 6 seconds delay ( 5 with t2 storyline cloak ) and another second for locking a bs. shoudnt be much more for bc/cruisers.
Yes it's paper thin ... but the time needed to lock him is more than enough to make a covert cyno. After that it's kind of game over. Oh are you noob enough to be needing an explain what that means ? i'd do it but you know i'm not here to educate anyone. At least not for free.
Point is if you want to be taken serious get your facts straight. mkay ?
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.30 21:24:00 -
[189]
lol I dont think I can even be bothered playing any more, you change your tune so many times I cant remember what the original argument was anymore......
oh that's right, you don't like 0.0 being risky....
As I said at start, you have no way of knowing who is afk. 90% of cloakers are not linked to a fleet so Cyno is a non issue. Not many people are gonna hunt ratters in a Recon so SB's are the norm, an that means you can kill them extremely fast. If they are flying Nem it means they are using Scorch bombs an Inferno torps. So if your ratting use omni tank to cover all bases. Ratting doesnt req high lvl tank.
If he is AFK an upsetting you then good, Your obviously too high strung to be in 0.0 if that simple act rattles you.
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Bloody2k
Gallente
SCHWARZSCHILD.
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Posted - 2009.12.31 08:16:00 -
[190]
A other possibility is to "nerf" Cloak....
If you cloack, you freeze the local in the moment
you activate the cloak...then yo have to decloak to
update it.
Einmal mit Profis! |
Dangerous Heffer
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Posted - 2009.12.31 09:10:00 -
[191]
Cynoslaver likes men 
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FantaKraut
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Posted - 2009.12.31 09:15:00 -
[192]
OP is a moron.
The entire point of the cloak is for gathering intel, the person sitting in local cloaked Is doing what the ****ing cloak is designed for. He cannot do anything other than gather intel, If you don't like it, move somewhere else, change up your tactics a bit try to ditch him.
I have spent many hours sitting in systems cloaked up watching the flow of traffic, Seeing what the pirates are doings, when they get on. IF gathering intel for your personal interests and protection of your corp is an exploit, or griefing then I do not want to play the game.
Its a perfectly valid tactic, the OP is more concerned with them being AFK, which is even more ******ed as an AFK cloaky is even less of a threat. If someone wants to spend their 15 dollars a month watching your movements, spying on you. Who are you to dictate how he/she plays? HDFU or GTFO. |
Sal Marshall
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Posted - 2009.12.31 22:14:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Sal Marshall on 31/12/2009 22:14:46
Originally by: Cynoslaver
oh yeah im sure in all warefare you could deny areas to your enemies while being asleep
f'ing idiot
LOL. What do you think the guys in the real life military do when stuck in their tanks/APCs/foxholes do when they need sleep? Go home? They nap unless there is active shooting going down. Area denial doesn't exclude the idea of sleeping, its FUNDAMENTAL to the mechanic.
Now I realize that its not EVERYONE sleeping in these real life situations.. but you get my point.. and just for the record.. back to Eve.. if the cloaked player is sleeping, doesn't this give any non-sleeping player an advantage against the cloaker? Its not like they can provide intelligence while they are in bed snoring..
Finally, I don't know what kind of response you expect to get when taking an aggressive and insulting tone in your own thread... its mystifying.
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Ariel Dawn
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.01.01 00:00:00 -
[194]
You can PvE in PvP fitted ships very easily. If someone uncloaks next to you, fight back instead of TO THE FORUMS. The majority of covops capable ships have fairly poor DPS and the majority of the recons rely on drones as well (aka easy to slag).
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2010.01.01 01:54:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Sal Marshall
LOL. What do you think the guys in the real life military do when stuck in their tanks/APCs/foxholes do when they need sleep? Go home? They nap unless there is active shooting going down. Area denial doesn't exclude the idea of sleeping, its FUNDAMENTAL to the mechanic.
Exactly! Cloaking up while reading, sleeping, etc is one of the most realistic mechanics in Eve. In a 23X7 environment it should be EXPECTED that people are periodically AFK and that they do all they can to secure thier position while doing so.
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Knobbing Everyone
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Posted - 2010.01.01 08:09:00 -
[196]
So you don't like a cloaked red in local while you want to rat? It gets really easy to counter them.
1. Be in a Home Defense fleet. That way, you get hit, your mates can instantly warp to you!
2. Be on comms! The moment the red engages you, just say belt+ship type on TS/Vent and folks should come to your aid.
3. Rat in something faster / more resilient than a Raven. Dominix, or a HAC.
4. If you have the luxury, have a carrier assign fighters. I personally rat in a Sac with a point and web and fighters assigned when there is a AFK red in local. Rapier / Pilgim / <Whatever is cloaked> wants to come play, I will go down fighting.
Think, don't complain, and then counter using proper game mechanics! 
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.01 12:23:00 -
[197]
trouble with your idea, is I will jump into belt in cloak at 100k's (nothing worse than jumping into a belt an landing on a rock :(. Second I see fighters in there I am gone,cos I know a Carrier is nearby not to mention the likelihood of backup.
Picking your target is an art form. I'd rather sit in cloak a few more hours an only get 3-4 kills a day than die trying to take on too much.
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Knobbing Everyone
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Posted - 2010.01.01 17:18:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Zill
Second I see fighters in there I am gone,cos I know a Carrier is nearby not to mention the likelihood of backup.
Picking your target is an art form. I'd rather sit in cloak a few more hours an only get 3-4 kills a day than die trying to take on too much.
You've made my point . You won't pick me as a target because you know the odds of surviving is a lot less than a lone ratting Raven. Thus, I can continue ratting, make some isk, and you can either chose to wait for a dumb target, OR move on. For me, thus, the game continues  This is the point I am trying to make to the OP. Adapt to your environment...
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Dragonmede
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Posted - 2010.01.01 20:52:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Knobbing Everyone
This is the point I am trying to make to the OP. Adapt to your environment...
Exactly What She Said.....
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome or Go Home in a Pod...
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.01 21:02:00 -
[200]
ok so I could fake it right now an say I "new" I was making your point for you......But I'd be lieing :(  I didn't even notice it till you pointed it it heh
As for the issue, well Fighters will work for any SB even a recon wont tangle with that. I know I should know this, but whats range on fighters ?.
Staying outside a hulks range is nothing but to be honest I dont know the activation range on a fighter
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Knobbing Everyone
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:33:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Zill
As for the issue, well Fighters will work for any SB even a recon wont tangle with that. I know I should know this, but whats range on fighters ?.
I'm not sure either to be honest, I just know they're pesky in that they keep following you around system (unless you recloak ofc). My alt has a Thanatos and Fighters V, so the 5 I can send your way will hurt a bit...
Now, what I also did learn = stealth bomber, bombing fighters...that can be costly at 13mill+ a pop (if the SB pilot gets it just right)
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.02 20:57:00 -
[202]
Only takes 500 odd damage to pop a Nem, so hes gonna have to be quick. 30k range on bomb launch an only 15k blast.
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Platoon Sergeant
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Posted - 2010.01.03 05:02:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Cynoslaver
oh yeah im sure in all warefare you could deny areas to your enemies while being asleep
f'ing idiot
Just for the record.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_in_being
AFK griefing is a historically accurate tactic.
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Zab Zonk
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Posted - 2010.01.03 08:51:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Zab Zonk on 03/01/2010 08:51:11
From the same wikipedia...
""Because of this threat the British decided to attack the Italian fleet at anchor during the famed Battle of Taranto. In this action, the British sank three Italian battleships, about half of the Italian Navy's battleship strength. Realising that Taranto harbour was no longer safe, the Italians relocated the undamaged ships to ports further away.""
So historically speaking afk'ing have been a dangerous tactic afker could allways be attacked ;) i only ask the same risk to be added to eve afk'ers :D
beside all afkers have a danger, except for those in station. 0.0 especially is dangerous. how can you ppl agree to simply drop a cloak on your ship and then be able to afk in any place in this universe no matter how hostile ?
i mean if you are in hostile place least you can do is pay attention to the game in order to survive.
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Jath Tola
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Posted - 2010.01.03 10:40:00 -
[205]
Warning: Wall of Text. Read it all if you plan on replying to it.
"Fleet in being" is not a good metaphor for AFK cloaking. The EvE equivalent of a "fleet in being" would be having many ships docked safely in stations in the system to be denied. In this way, they are available on short notice to undock and attack, much the way fleets-in-being could potentially leave port and attack. (Also the Battle of Taranto was very much the exception to the rule. Do some research.)
A cloaked ship, on the other hand, is much more like a sniper in that their combat utility is ultimately limited by their specialization. They can, however, deny access to an area by their presence. Here is where the AFK part comes in:
A sniper IRL does not, in fact, need to be present to have the desired area-denial effect. The mere knowledge (or belief, even) that there *could* be, or once was, a sniper present is often sufficient. In EvE, due to local being used as an intel tool, cloaked players (the EvE analog to our sniper) cannot leave the system without enemy forces' knowledge. They can instead leave their computers, going AFK. Allow me to explain.
Imagine if you will an EvE without local chat. Someone spots, or is attacked by, a WT covops ship in your system. The covops warps away before it can be killed. The covops pilot can now do one of several things:
1. Cloak and remain in-system (either at keyboard or AFK).
2. Jump out of system.
3. Dock at a station in-system.
4. Log off.
With the exception of option 3, you will have no way of telling whether or not said covops ship is still present and/or a threat. This, in effect, denies you your accustomed free run of the system, as you know (or at least believe) that they could reappear at any time and attack, and so must take the necessary precautions (i.e. escort, not flying failships).
Now, with the current system of "everyone shows up in local" imagine the same situation takes place. All goes identically until the covops pilot has warped away. They now have the same options as above. However, option 1 is the only option that allows the covops pilot to maintain the area-denial effect. Leaving system or logging off will be visible in local, and docking carries the same risks of discovery (if a WT happens to be in the same station). If the covops is there for area-denial purposes his only real option is to remain cloaked somewhere in system. Unless he's there to pick off easy or specific targets, or to gather intel, his presence is enough to serve his purpose.
But then what to do? He can't leave the system, can't dock, and can't expose himself in any way or else his cover is blown. In this case a lot of people would go AFK.
Do I like this? No, as I've said before. I think it's rather lame to go AFK for any great length of time no matter what your character is doing. But given the burden placed on the average covops pilot by the omniscience of local chat, there really is no other option. To nerf cloaking, taking away even that one advantage covops pilots have, while leaving local chat the way it is, would make cloaking practically useless except in very specific, very rare situations.
IRL there is no local chat. The only way to find out if you're being actively denied an area is to risk going out in said area. EvE is doing you a favor by warning you of a cloaked pilot's presence via local, so pilots are doing their best to negate this imbalance by sometimes going AFK (meaning sometimes the warning is unnecessary). Without local, this thread would never have been started, because you'd never have known they were there... unless they're not really AFK in the first place, making your complaint moot.
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Platoon Sergeant
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Posted - 2010.01.03 11:09:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Zab Zonk
Edited by: Zab Zonk on 03/01/2010 08:51:11
From the same wikipedia...
""Because of this threat the British decided to attack the Italian fleet at anchor during the famed Battle of Taranto. In this action, the British sank three Italian battleships, about half of the Italian Navy's battleship strength. Realising that Taranto harbour was no longer safe, the Italians relocated the undamaged ships to ports further away.""
So historically speaking afk'ing have been a dangerous tactic afker could allways be attacked ;) i only ask the same risk to be added to eve afk'ers :D
beside all afkers have a danger, except for those in station. 0.0 especially is dangerous. how can you ppl agree to simply drop a cloak on your ship and then be able to afk in any place in this universe no matter how hostile ?
i mean if you are in hostile place least you can do is pay attention to the game in order to survive.
The critical logical error you have made is comparing a fleet of battleships moored at a harbour to a lone ship sitting cloaked in the middle of nowhere. A cloaked ship is more analogous a submarine submerged in the middle of the ocean. It can sit for days undetected and passively conduct reconaissance, while your only recourse for finding it is to pretty much bump into it.
I only used the example of a fleet in being to illustrate that idle threats are still threats on both real and fictional battlefields. Just because someone is AFK does not mean they cannot/should not be able to manipulate the battlefield.
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Johnny Yakuza
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Posted - 2010.01.03 11:29:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Cynoslaver
There really needs to be some sort of cap fallout or cloak timer to prevent 'overnight' 24/7 around the clock afk griefing in 0.0 space....
everything else has some sort of counter or something you can do, however hard, to fight back.
This just in, "global warming" blamed for dramatic increase in nubbin tears.
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Aaran Logh
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.01.04 22:36:00 -
[208]
wow, this thread really became a how-to-flame tutorial
wasnt this actually about that cloaking is overpowered?
well, to that:
say cloaking IS overpowered, (well it may be a little, but i dont think so), lets see what comes next: every freaking pirate or pvp dude who can fit and use a scanner will find EVERY ship and player in a system without a station
that makes scanners overpowered, right? lets remove them!
oh, and then the ability to make safespots would be overpowered, lets just remove it...
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Grin Sturm
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Posted - 2010.01.05 00:57:00 -
[209]
If you get killed it's your own fault. There are no immensely overpowered ships or tactics in eve, just the lack of knowledge on how to counter them. A cloaked ship and a real submarine is often considered analogous as previously mentioned. Your encounter shows how effective they are at denying areas and stalling operations by just sitting there hidden, making you nervous. They do have a great disadvantage though, they're friggin expensive and difficult to pvp in. A smart blackops player will not gamble, but attack only if he knows he will win the fight. So don't solo if you know there are blackops present, or fly a decent ship. That'll force them to stay put.
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Gourdo
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:46:00 -
[210]
it is possible to decloak a afk cloaker. I have done it before. All tho it was just pure luck that my warp off point from the station in 0.0 just happened to be where he was sitting at. I am glad he was afk. you know how long it takes to turn a freighter 180 degrease. Bet he was surprise to come back and find him self in a med bay in a fresh clone.
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