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Sumelar
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Posted - 2010.01.05 07:04:00 -
[211]
Maybe they'll fix it once you can explain how someone who isn't even at their computer could possibly do you harm.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.01.05 10:14:00 -
[212]
The part we are dancing around is this...
You want the system your in to be completely 100% safe. It burns you that at any moment that cloaked ship could pop up and do you harm. Eve isnt safe. Deal with it.
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Bane Loppknow
Pel Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.05 13:14:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Bane Loppknow on 05/01/2010 13:15:08 Didn't read anything but the OP, cos I'm cool like that. That being said, heres my solution:
Gives cloaks a system similar to overheating. Your cloak, while it remains active, slowly accumulates heat, say, on an hour-long timer. After an hour, your cloak begins taking overheat damage and burns out after 5 minutes, and then you need to repair it.
If you deactivate it at or before 59 minutes 59 seconds, your cloak will relatively quickly (say, 5 minutes?) dissipate the excess heat, allowing you to safely re-cloak with no damage to the module. If you reactivate your cloak before all the excess heat is dissipated, it stays there and accumulates slightly more rapidly. If all the excess heat is dissipated, you get the initial 1 hour timer again.
The Thermodynamics skill could increase the rate at which you dissipate heat.
The in-game explanation is simple: Computers generate heat. A cloak is a very powerful computer. It generates a lot of heat, and since the object is to hide, you can't just let it all bleed into space; someone will 'see' it and figure out where you are.
An active cloaker warps around, maybe shoots at some things, possibly drops a cyno, jumps through gates... all of which require the deactivation of the cloak. As the cloak is inactive and you're popping a cyno or w/e, you're also dissipating heat.
Warping rapidly through multiple systems would generate no heat, as you're typically only in a system for a couple minutes, and cloaked (gate cloaks obviously don't count) for three quarters of that. That's maybe a second of dissipation, which you get when you jump through the gate and the next system loads. You can also hold your gate cloak to dissipate heat, as the gate is cloaking you, not your module.
There are many strategies you could employ to keep your cloak from overheating while remaining uncatchable. For example, you could warp across system and de-cloak while in warp. You're invulnerable, traveling too fast for probes, and it takes time to warp... time that you can use to dissipate heat. The point is that this system would require a conscious pilot in order to remain cloaked in hostile territory, while not making it impossible. EVE isn't safe for anyone... except afk cloakers. It's time that changed.
Also, don't nitpick the times I've given. That would be stupid (I know someone will anyway). This is just a hypothetical system. If it were ever implemented, CCP could figure out their own numbers that they find to be balanced.
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Elora Danzik
Caldari Idiots In Spaceships Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 18:34:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Elora Danzik on 05/01/2010 18:35:58 then by that logic Bane,
There "should" be a module that can track background heat fluctuations. So, a prober would be able to load thermal probes that scan for heat fluctuations to background radiation. This could work similar to combat probes and could find ships and towers and such just with reduced effecientcy. It would not be able to fine sites.
Thus it would be a cloak ship finder. It could get you with in say 5-10 k of the target with the "decloaking" up to you. obviously the standard skills would apply. With the addition of themodynamics to use the probes.
This would allow people a way to find a cloaker without gimping the cloak.
What should also be obvious is the longer you stay in one location the larger the heat difference becomes allow for faster acquisition. This has the side effect of causing a larger scan deviation. Also the larger the ship the more heat the easier to find.
just a thought.
EDIT: This could also be used to find "recent" combat sites. Weapons create heat. The more weapons teh greater the heat source. So you could probe out missioners or sites that have "active" combat.
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2010.01.05 19:32:00 -
[215]
Why cloak ? Buzzard, point, web, cov cloak(just for sneaking up on ppl), expanded launcher, 2xECCM. co-proc and aux core, oh why the aux core? to fit the ab and the covert cyno. Go afk at safespot without cloaking, risk free.
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Jumponme
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Posted - 2010.01.07 11:06:00 -
[216]
Tbh ... CCP should implement a powersaving routine.
Every client not beeing used for a certain amount of time (like 30min or 1h) should be closed. Eve uses quiet a lot power from your graphicscard (especially from them) ... and CCP should fight for their own sake against global warming since we all know iceland will vanish in the ocean like once atlantis if the poles melt and thus raising the waterlevel.
Though ... part of it is true, another part i made up.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.01.07 11:09:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 07/01/2010 11:09:05 The real question is, why does CCP allow to post these stupid threads over and over again?
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2010.01.07 11:48:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Future Mutant The part we are dancing around is this...
You want the system your in to be completely 100% safe. It burns you that at any moment that cloaked ship could pop up and do you harm. Eve isnt safe. Deal with it.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.01.07 15:36:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 07/01/2010 15:40:51
Originally by: Jumponme iceland will vanish in the ocean like once atlantis
Atlantis didn't vanish because of global warming, it vanished because of the fallout from the war over the Celestial Ladder, and is now scattered throughout time and space. Don't you read Mage: The Awakening? -----
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Mova B
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Posted - 2010.01.07 15:44:00 -
[220]
how can something be unfair when you have the option of doing it as well ?
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SirDynty
Gallente Boiians
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Posted - 2010.01.07 18:16:00 -
[221]
this does not have anything to do with game mechanics
its your own paranoia..afk cloaker is not doing anything else,than feeding your paranoia.
You are scared that he MIGHT uncloak and do something,but he isnt uncloaking. I hated them as well,but it is only my paranoia and i know it:) non afk cloakers are different story,but i guess that this topic is not about them |
tribalfreak
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Posted - 2010.01.07 18:35:00 -
[222]
wow how did a thread like this get all these posts lol. even the OP had abandoned it (troll) anyway i'll bite
can the op comeback and explain why afk colocks have you so riled up?
honestly, i've only been here about a month, but really i would do what i always do, if i see a ship wrap in i wrap out it just doesn't make sense to me in general why seeing someone's name in local chat would make one so scared. if they wrap in clocked then they can't even target me when they declocked for a few seconds so i have lots of time to get outta dodge. they can warp in uncloaked and the minute i see them i'm outta there. don't know if there's any flaw in my logic or not, feel free to let me know i'm still learning.
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its seriousbusiness
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Posted - 2010.01.07 19:21:00 -
[223]
All those AFK-Cloak in 0.0 Whining-Threads prove that being a Carebear has nothing to do with being in Highsec running missions
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Joeseph Foenix
Foenix Labs
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Posted - 2010.01.08 05:47:00 -
[224]
Originally by: its seriousbusiness All those AFK-Cloak in 0.0 Whining-Threads prove that being a Carebear has nothing to do with being in Highsec running missions
QFT
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Zedic
Amarr Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2010.01.24 15:56:00 -
[225]
As one of the former Sneaky Bastards of LV I am offended by the OP. Off with his head.
Read and comprehend first before you open your trap and show everyone in a game where it's possible to find and then run you out of the game, you muppet. You're playing the wrong game if you think you can bray like this and get results. Covops pilots are like gold pressed latinum to their corps and alliances, they are the stuff of change and their success can turn the tide. Acknowledge the cloaked pilot when you see him. Maybe one day he'll answer you. Don't be so egotistical as to think he's there for you and your merry band of mouth breathing 0.0 nuggets. There may be bigger fish to fry, or perhaps the pilot is just trying to find a way back to their WH. The arrogance of noobs never ceases to amuse me.
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Misha'la
Gallente Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
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Posted - 2010.01.24 16:17:00 -
[226]
Ok I read this and can't understand why it's 8 pages long.
AFK Cloakers can do no harm to you. Because first of all, if they're cloaked you're safe. If they uncloak, theres a timer before their systems are working properly, so you can leave before they hit you a good amount of the time.
Why is this such a big discussion? It's like complaining about moons
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Rail Gun
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.01.24 18:02:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Misha'la Ok I read this and can't understand why it's 8 pages long.
AFK Cloakers can do no harm to you. Because first of all, if they're cloaked you're safe. If they uncloak, theres a timer before their systems are working properly, so you can leave before they hit you a good amount of the time.
Why is this such a big discussion? It's like complaining about moons
Well I want to know why CCP allows moons. There really is not any counter for them. They should remove them untill we get Death Star's raygun to Titans...
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Zedic
Amarr Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2010.01.24 19:11:00 -
[228]
Also this thread reminds me of snipe hunting.
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Haramir Haleths
Caldari Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2010.01.25 11:38:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Haramir Haleths on 25/01/2010 11:38:09 Snipe
*Fail Snipe*
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.01.25 15:41:00 -
[230]
I could suggest that cloaked people would simply disappear from the local chat. But you know what would happen then? The people who complained about AFK Cloakers will start complaining about them not being visible, and start demanding that they show up in the local chat.
Which will bring us back to where we are now.
That said, I do think it would be a good idea to remove cloaked people from the local chat. Their own local view might even disappear as well - if they want to establish system-wide communications again, they'd need to uncloak. I find it silly that the local chat is used to keep an eye on who's in the system - it is much more powerful than the directional scanner for instance. Most people will be alerted to possible danger by simply scrolling the local chat. If people had less warning about potential dangerous situations, I think the game would be more fun. Miners wouldn't be aligning the second an bogey entered the system, and those ganking the miners wouldn't be warping away as soon as help arrived in the system for the miners.
Some more surprises will keep people on edge, and it would make it more fun altogether. I think.
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Jadwina Kerkova
The Artificial Intelligence
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Posted - 2010.01.25 16:39:00 -
[231]
To take and complete the anti-whiners position:
The problem is not AFK-cloaking, but being able to log off at all (with the consequence of a ship and pilot disappearing because of no consistent ingame reason). |
X Dead
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Posted - 2010.01.26 23:12:00 -
[232]
I have to ask whether the OP's problem is with the "afk" part or the "cloak" part? Or is it just that they don't like knowing somebody is around that they can't find (monsters-under-the-bed-syndrome)?
Cloak: I think the point of a cloak is that you can't find the cloaked entity - or am I missing something in the intent of the device there?
Afk: Afk happens - people get called away and fail to return all the time (sometimes even during operations which can make things... "interesting" for an FC) but that might also break some other activities of the OP's (or folks with similar opionions) and become the next problem. It's very hard to determine the intent of the Pilot in any case - were they called away on an emergency or did they leave to taunt somebody? There are other activities that pilots stay logged in for even when intentionally away too - keeping up with corp chat for when they return is one that come to mind. When leaving for a couple of minutes a warp to a safe is exceedingly common so we can't even correlate that with afk-cloaking.
In any case, the psych-warfare *effects* of afk-cloak can be accomplished both with or without either or both of the "afk" or the "cloak" parts, it's just easier and most commonly done that way. Mind you, there's no way for the target to know which technique is being used and I have little doubt they'll keep having issues and blame it on afk-cloaking even when other methods are used.
Boiled down, for folks in a system with a hidden pilot it's really that they don't want to be subject to "I don't know where somebody I could be scared of is and can't find out" psych-warfare. At least admit it. I think that most forms of in-game warfare within the intent of the mechanics is on (allowing some wiggle for exploits there) so it will probably be hard to argue for a change based on the current logic. Get mocked, sure; get a change made, rather more difficult. |
Atraxerxes
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit General Panic.
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Posted - 2010.01.27 02:25:00 -
[233]
I may be a little late in this thread (meaning I'm at the point where nobody is reading just waiting for their turn to talk), but I have to agree cloaking needs a counter measure or change (call it a nerf if you want).
Whether or not it's a change to the item such as making it a non recurring activation. Say a 1 or 2 hour cycle with no chance to repeat without manually activating it again. (of course this could be macro'd)
Or make cloaking devices use charges or crystals that will wear out. I would advocate that they be very small so that many could be fit in a cargo hold).
Sitting cloaked up and stalking your enemy for hours is a viable tactic and should be protected, but sitting in a system cloaked while you go to work or school is just fricken' lame, even if you try to call it something fancy like Strategic Area of Denial.
AX
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IbanezLaney
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Posted - 2010.01.27 04:46:00 -
[234]
I don't see how it matters if someone sits cloaked.
If they are spying and you know they are there - do something to give them false intel. Use it to your own advantage.
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Damion Rayne
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.01.27 06:24:00 -
[235]
I'm actually going to go out on a limb here and pose the major question to the OP that neds posing,
Have you ever been in any real life military situation? Have you ever studied military tactics and strategy?
I'm going to shoot for the "no" response to both of these questions. Now while I have been active duty military it still doesn't give me the right to bring things that happen in a real combat situation into a game.
What I will do however is link real military tactics and strategy to this question. An AFK cloaker is infact no threat to you what so ever. This is psychological warfare. They have allready won, your overzealous need to whine ***** moan and complain about their presence and cry to CCP askign for a change to a game mechanic denots just that simple fact. You have been beaten. A person sitting AFK cloaked is infact no different then having an UAV in real life loiter over an enemy target and send acurate and up to date inteligence on enemy threat's and assets. You really need to think seriously about what your complaining about here. You are complaining about fundamental military tactics and strategy. Covert Operations is never fair. The sniper does not ask permission to shoot you from a mile away.
THink about that.
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Shepard Book
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.27 11:18:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Shepard Book on 27/01/2010 11:21:19 Edited by: Shepard Book on 27/01/2010 11:20:38 The problem is having a local to begin with. Remove local from 0.0 We should not know ahead of time if there are hostiles around and the numbers in the fleet.
You should have protection if you decide to carebear after you already get a FREE warning there are hostiles around. |
Gwenivere Diamond
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Posted - 2010.01.28 18:37:00 -
[237]
In a game where nearly anything at all is either permissable or encouraged im not sure how cloaking of all things would be counted as griefing regardless of where and how long it takes place.
To me this is in the same vein as those who are essentially *****ing that enemies do not sit in one spot with their tank turned off for you to kill them at your leisure, you just want 0.0 quality space with no risk to your ship. Nothing in this game is free and operating with hostiles or unkowns in space is something you'll have to get used to or be paralyzed with fear in station and it will be no one's fault but your own.
If you're not in high sec be prepared to fight or at least prepared to escape and if you are in high sec be prepared to survive a suicide. If you suspect someone is AFK cloaked ignore them and do what you gotta do. AFK cloaking stays.
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Pay Tiger
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Posted - 2010.01.28 18:52:00 -
[238]
I'm a little confused. How does being cloaked in a system affect someone to the point that it's griefing? My EVE blog |
jodine
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Posted - 2010.01.28 19:55:00 -
[239]
whats the diffrence between afk cloaking and afk in the station. either way they could become not afk on at any time
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Masquitar
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Posted - 2010.01.28 21:17:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Masquitar on 28/01/2010 21:18:57
Originally by: jodine whats the diffrence between afk cloaking and afk in the station. either way they could become not afk on at any time
I can understand the OP's frustration, particularly in the case of cov ops capable pilot long term afk campers.
The situation described by Jodine is very different to that of an enemy being afk in station. Both the location and to small extent the timing of said enemy's undocking can be predicted. Added to this the fact that a docked player is blind to what's going on outside the station. These factors make for a balanced mechanic in which it's possible for either side to gain an advantage through player input and game mechanics.
In the case of a cov ops cloaked pilot, an enemy's timing and location of uncloaking is very unpredictable and the cov ops capable ship pilot is able to see there surroundings first hand anywhere in system. These are of course fully intended mechanics and should be left alone. But when combined with a 23/7 afk cloaked system camping situation, I can fully understand the logic of implementing a balancing mechanic to make long term cloaked system camping more difficult from the campers point of view, and counterable from the everybody elses point of view.
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