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a Six
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: a Six on 22/12/2009 01:39:41
You engage a wt and suddenly a blob of neutrals start remote repping them. Given the current game mechanics it's totally legit and far be it for me to complain that someone is using the tools available to them... but should this one be available?
What do we think folks?
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Occams Legwax
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:40:00 -
[2]
The remote rep graphics are nice.
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a Six
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:47:00 -
[3]
Mmmmkay...
Does anyone other than the Rainman have an opinion? :)
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FU22
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:17:00 -
[4]
I think its a perfectly fine mechanic that isnt broken.
I might be slightly bias as my alt will finish logistics 5 in 2 days 
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Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:17:00 -
[5]
As far as I know it's not really.. allowed.
I think..
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:45:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Lt Forge
As far as I know it's not really.. allowed.
I think..
Neutrals repping a pos was an exploit the last time i checked.
Neutrals repping a wt is not an exploit. Its kind of lame but there are things you can do. Like kill the repper.
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Taksimm Blaak
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:56:00 -
[7]
Needs to be stopped, it's a very poor game mechanic. I really don't understand why CCP would think it's not a problem that needs fixing.
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.22 03:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Taksimm Blaak
Needs to be stopped, it's a very poor game mechanic. I really don't understand why CCP would think it's not a problem that needs fixing.
How exactly would you fix it other then making all remote repping of non corp members a concordable response?
thats why it hasnt been fixed yet- because theres no easy fix.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.12.22 03:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Empire Dweller
Originally by: Lt Forge
As far as I know it's not really.. allowed.
I think..
Neutrals repping a pos was an exploit the last time i checked.
Neutrals repping a wt is not an exploit. Its kind of lame but there are things you can do. Like kill the repper.
Unless the Repper is like 50km away, or docks up instantly.
Meh, @ OP: FRAPS it, then do the exact same thing when they start shooting you, then if they ***** whine and moan in local, put the link in local, heh.
Not much else you can do though.
Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.12.22 04:45:00 -
[10]
Neutral RR is fine. Though it would be nice if when you rep someone with an aggro timer you picked one up yourself.
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Dilligafmofo
Gallente
Chaos From Order
Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 05:44:00 -
[11]
I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war.
Just sayin'
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Aralieus
Amarr
Traumark Logistics
H Y E N A
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Posted - 2009.12.22 06:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dilligafmofo
I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war.
Just sayin'
QFT
There should be heavier penalties for somebody poking thier nose where it doesnt belong, but then wat about can-flipping with a neutral RR alt?
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 22/12/2009 07:00:46
We have neutral scouts, haulers and gang links so I don't see the issue with neutral rep tbh. It's kinda the same as starting a thread about how one is morally against using bait in 0.0; "at first there was only one and we attacked it, then 5 others jumped in".
A typical case of "deal with it", even more as the RR flag themselves. I would however make a strong case for RRing keeping you from docking (NOT jumping through a gate, this is needed in 0.0).
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I think, therefore I'm single.
New projectile damage PDF
Alliance creation service |
Tia a'Kanat
Caldari
Paramilitary Skanks
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:54:00 -
[14]
Problem with neutral RR is the lack of combat timer: They can dock up instantly, since RRing someone who's in combat doesn't give them a combat timer. Anyone else participating in PvP has to wait for a minute before they can dock or jump, but neutral RRs can just dock up (or jump) if they start taking damage. Silly system, really.
Has been discussed to death, though, and CCP doesn't seem to care about it, so doubt anything's going to happen to it. Fit damps or jammers to counter neutral RR (of course a logistics ship has the range to counter the damps and ECCM to counter the jams, but you might get lucky).
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Codo Yagari
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:00:00 -
[15]
If the war isn't mutual and the neutral reppers belong to the defending corporation, I think it is completely OK.
If the war is mutual, any side using neutral reppers are dishonourable cowards.
If the reppers belong to the agressing corp, and the war isn't mutual, they are acting too low to be labelled.
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Empress Jamyl I |
Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Empire Dweller on 22/12/2009 09:26:35
Eve online- around 15$ a month...
Assigning morals to video game actions- Priceless
Seriously though- easy fix, just make the neutral repper not only agress to the opposing side- make him a war target for the duration of the war.
Would solve one problem while creating another though...
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:15:00 -
[17]
I agree its lame.
Two things need to happen:
1. The neutral becomes a valid "war" target for 15 minutes
2. RR causes a standard aggro timer that stops it from jumping/docking for 1 minute
It doesn't stop the "surprise" element of the neutral becomming involved and maybe tipping the balance, but this does commit the neutral logistics to the fight, which means if more support arrives for example, the logistics might then die too (removing the "no risk" situation we have currently).
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:37:00 -
[18]
It is awesome and one of the things that are truly in the spirit of Eve.
Eve is all about finding undeclared bugs, exploits and loop-holes and milking for all they are worth. Just remember to maintain plausible-deniability.
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FU22
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aralieus
Originally by: Dilligafmofo
I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war.
Just sayin'
QFT
There should be heavier penalties for somebody poking thier nose where it doesnt belong,
Originally by: Empire Dweller
Edited by: Empire Dweller on 22/12/2009 09:26:35Seriously though- easy fix, just make the neutral repper not only agress to the opposing side- make him a war target for the duration of the war.
Would solve one problem while creating another though...
I would love to see them change it to that.
Brb RR'ing privateers for free war decs
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Dr Lebroi
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
It is awesome and one of the things that are truly in the spirit of Eve.
Eve is all about finding undeclared bugs, exploits and loop-holes and milking for all they are worth. Just remember to maintain plausible-deniability.
^^^^^^^^^This. Warfare has always been an arena that has demonstrated mankind's massive ingenuity. This process naturally transfers into the cyber arena. If an advantage can be found someone will find it. Sneaky skullduggery is all part of the Eve experience. The best way to counter neutral RR os to have your own.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:43:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ralnik on 22/12/2009 15:43:14
Originally by: Empire Dweller
Originally by: Taksimm Blaak
Needs to be stopped, it's a very poor game mechanic. I really don't understand why CCP would think it's not a problem that needs fixing.
How exactly would you fix it other then making all remote repping of non corp members a concordable response?
thats why it hasnt been fixed yet- because theres no easy fix.
You would fix it by giving them the same 30 second aggro timer as anyone engaged in combat gets. It's not really the "neutral" part that matters so much even though it is annoying.
It's the fact that you can't shoot them until they start repping "and" they can dock or jump though a gate the second you do then come back only seconds later.
If they couldn't instantly dock or jump through a gate, you as a player would have the opportunity to "do something" about it. As it sits, it's really a unfair game mechanic that gives impunity to the neural reppers.
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Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:15:00 -
[22]
Several things need to happen to really change how people think about committing to use neutral reps.
- 1 minute aggro timer to stop docking/jumping if the person being repped has an aggro timer
- The neutral repper, if repping people at war, becomes a valid war target to the opposing side for the duration of the war
- If person 1 reps person 2 who destroys person 3, person 3 has killrights on person 1 for the 4 weeks from that point.
This from my experience of being a noob for losing against people who use neutral remote reps.
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Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:27:00 -
[23]
It adds complexity to high-sec warfare and, unless I'm mistaken, is kind of a moot point in low/null sec?
The only problem I see is that the neutral is not treated in every way as a combat participant - e.g. they can insta-dock and/or use gates.
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CrackD0wn
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Posted - 2009.12.22 18:30:00 -
[24]
I agree that neutral RR is BS. My corp has just come from a wardeck with a merc corp that suffered losses amounting to 2.5bil in ships and modules where my alliance lost 1.5bil across 2 total campaigns. The first campaign we lost due to the remote reppers. we decided to consort to gorilla warfare tactics on the second campaign.
Small fast assault frigs and and Hacs taking the fight straight to their mission runners about 10 jumps away. the defining moment came when we blew up one of their carebear corp members in a faction shuttle and killed his pod. we found out after the fact that the pod kill amounted to about 1.7bil in lost implants. This caused their alliance to get all butt hurt cause their carebear corps started leaving the alliance.
One of the tactics we found that helped us out is when they brought in the reppers we have ECM that we had for backup to keep them from targeting us. they decided to drop their reppers and go for ECCM backups and when we noticed this sowe started fitting 50% of our 22-30man fleet with neuts and the other 50% with remote armor reps and remote shield reps.
These are very solid tactics. but yes the remote reps from neutrals is BS because it gives the enemy a backup force that can not be attacked. Last time i checked in warfare of any kind anyone that was giving aide to an enemy was considered an enemy. You could also decide to wardeck the remote repping fleet. that could serve as 2 things. the Rep fleet will either dock up cause their ships are now fair targets or they will start dropping like flies when it comes to engagements. cause then you just primary the remote reppers.
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NobodyHolme
Gallente
Colonial Fleet Services
Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:14:00 -
[25]
Count Remote Repair on a target being attacked by someone as agressing the attacking ship for all game mechanics.
Would break neutral RR due to the good old CONCORDOKKEN, and trigger countdowns. This from a logistics pilot.
Because I can. |
Cattegirn
Rampant SR
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:55:00 -
[26]
What do we think folks?
We hates them. I can only imagine that it is some technical/programming problem that it isn't otherwise.
Rampant Corp - Strategy Articles and PVP Training |
Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:20:00 -
[27]
If you remove this 'feature' pretty much every mercenary corp in the game would disband over night.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
The Rise of The Dragon Knights
Void Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:22:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 23/12/2009 00:21:57
Lols @ "Gorilla Warfare Tactics"
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
But the friend of my enemy is not my enemy
Kinda lame yeah
*trains logistics*
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this!
Clear Skies - The Movie
ROTDK is recruiting
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AFK Cloaker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.23 01:06:00 -
[29]
Stop fighting on station.
Or CCP change so you can't dock if pointed. |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.23 02:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: FU22
Brb RR'ing privateers for free war decs
Count me in. WHY did they have to nerf Alliance P? Gah.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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