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'Neutrals' repping war targets - What do we think?

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a Six	Posted - 2009.12.22 01:38:00 - [1] Edited by: a Six on 22/12/2009 01:39:41 You engage a wt and suddenly a blob of neutrals start remote repping them. Given the current game mechanics it's totally legit and far be it for me to complain that someone is using the tools available to them... but should this one be available? What do we think folks?
Occams Legwax	Posted - 2009.12.22 01:40:00 - [2] The remote rep graphics are nice.
a Six	Posted - 2009.12.22 01:47:00 - [3] Mmmmkay... Does anyone other than the Rainman have an opinion? :)
FU22 Duty.	Posted - 2009.12.22 02:17:00 - [4] I think its a perfectly fine mechanic that isnt broken. I might be slightly bias as my alt will finish logistics 5 in 2 days
Lt Forge Pilots From Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.12.22 02:17:00 - [5] As far as I know it's not really.. allowed. I think..
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.12.22 02:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Lt Forge As far as I know it's not really.. allowed. I think.. Neutrals repping a pos was an exploit the last time i checked. Neutrals repping a wt is not an exploit. Its kind of lame but there are things you can do. Like kill the repper.
Taksimm Blaak Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.22 02:56:00 - [7] Needs to be stopped, it's a very poor game mechanic. I really don't understand why CCP would think it's not a problem that needs fixing.
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.12.22 03:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Taksimm Blaak Needs to be stopped, it's a very poor game mechanic. I really don't understand why CCP would think it's not a problem that needs fixing. How exactly would you fix it other then making all remote repping of non corp members a concordable response? thats why it hasnt been fixed yet- because theres no easy fix.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.12.22 03:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Empire Dweller Originally by: Lt Forge As far as I know it's not really.. allowed. I think.. Neutrals repping a pos was an exploit the last time i checked. Neutrals repping a wt is not an exploit. Its kind of lame but there are things you can do. Like kill the repper. Unless the Repper is like 50km away, or docks up instantly. Meh, @ OP: FRAPS it, then do the exact same thing when they start shooting you, then if they ***** whine and moan in local, put the link in local, heh. Not much else you can do though. Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
Bud Johnson Broski Enterprises	Posted - 2009.12.22 04:45:00 - [10] Neutral RR is fine. Though it would be nice if when you rep someone with an aggro timer you picked one up yourself.

Dilligafmofo Gallente Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.	Posted - 2009.12.22 05:44:00 - [11] I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war. Just sayin'
Aralieus Amarr Traumark Logistics H Y E N A	Posted - 2009.12.22 06:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Dilligafmofo I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war. Just sayin' QFT There should be heavier penalties for somebody poking thier nose where it doesnt belong, but then wat about can-flipping with a neutral RR alt? Fortune favors the bold!!!
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.22 07:00:00 - [13] Edited by: Marko Riva on 22/12/2009 07:00:46 We have neutral scouts, haulers and gang links so I don't see the issue with neutral rep tbh. It's kinda the same as starting a thread about how one is morally against using bait in 0.0; "at first there was only one and we attacked it, then 5 others jumped in". A typical case of "deal with it", even more as the RR flag themselves. I would however make a strong case for RRing keeping you from docking (NOT jumping through a gate, this is needed in 0.0). ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Tia a'Kanat Caldari Paramilitary Skanks	Posted - 2009.12.22 08:54:00 - [14] Problem with neutral RR is the lack of combat timer: They can dock up instantly, since RRing someone who's in combat doesn't give them a combat timer. Anyone else participating in PvP has to wait for a minute before they can dock or jump, but neutral RRs can just dock up (or jump) if they start taking damage. Silly system, really. Has been discussed to death, though, and CCP doesn't seem to care about it, so doubt anything's going to happen to it. Fit damps or jammers to counter neutral RR (of course a logistics ship has the range to counter the damps and ECCM to counter the jams, but you might get lucky).
Codo Yagari Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.22 09:00:00 - [15] If the war isn't mutual and the neutral reppers belong to the defending corporation, I think it is completely OK. If the war is mutual, any side using neutral reppers are dishonourable cowards. If the reppers belong to the agressing corp, and the war isn't mutual, they are acting too low to be labelled. --- Empress Jamyl I
Empire Dweller Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.12.22 09:24:00 - [16] Edited by: Empire Dweller on 22/12/2009 09:26:35 Eve online- around 15$ a month... Assigning morals to video game actions- Priceless Seriously though- easy fix, just make the neutral repper not only agress to the opposing side- make him a war target for the duration of the war. Would solve one problem while creating another though...
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2009.12.22 13:15:00 - [17] I agree its lame. Two things need to happen: 1. The neutral becomes a valid "war" target for 15 minutes 2. RR causes a standard aggro timer that stops it from jumping/docking for 1 minute It doesn't stop the "surprise" element of the neutral becomming involved and maybe tipping the balance, but this does commit the neutral logistics to the fight, which means if more support arrives for example, the logistics might then die too (removing the "no risk" situation we have currently).
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.12.22 13:37:00 - [18] It is awesome and one of the things that are truly in the spirit of Eve. Eve is all about finding undeclared bugs, exploits and loop-holes and milking for all they are worth. Just remember to maintain plausible-deniability.
FU22 Duty.	Posted - 2009.12.22 14:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Aralieus Originally by: Dilligafmofo I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war. Just sayin' QFT There should be heavier penalties for somebody poking thier nose where it doesnt belong, Originally by: Empire Dweller Edited by: Empire Dweller on 22/12/2009 09:26:35Seriously though- easy fix, just make the neutral repper not only agress to the opposing side- make him a war target for the duration of the war. Would solve one problem while creating another though... I would love to see them change it to that. Brb RR'ing privateers for free war decs
Dr Lebroi	Posted - 2009.12.22 14:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida It is awesome and one of the things that are truly in the spirit of Eve. Eve is all about finding undeclared bugs, exploits and loop-holes and milking for all they are worth. Just remember to maintain plausible-deniability. ^^^^^^^^^This. Warfare has always been an arena that has demonstrated mankind's massive ingenuity. This process naturally transfers into the cyber arena. If an advantage can be found someone will find it. Sneaky skullduggery is all part of the Eve experience. The best way to counter neutral RR os to have your own.

Ralnik Mutineers	Posted - 2009.12.22 15:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Ralnik on 22/12/2009 15:43:14 Originally by: Empire Dweller Originally by: Taksimm Blaak Needs to be stopped, it's a very poor game mechanic. I really don't understand why CCP would think it's not a problem that needs fixing. How exactly would you fix it other then making all remote repping of non corp members a concordable response? thats why it hasnt been fixed yet- because theres no easy fix. You would fix it by giving them the same 30 second aggro timer as anyone engaged in combat gets. It's not really the "neutral" part that matters so much even though it is annoying. It's the fact that you can't shoot them until they start repping "and" they can dock or jump though a gate the second you do then come back only seconds later. If they couldn't instantly dock or jump through a gate, you as a player would have the opportunity to "do something" about it. As it sits, it's really a unfair game mechanic that gives impunity to the neural reppers.
Hot Tubes Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.22 17:15:00 - [22] Several things need to happen to really change how people think about committing to use neutral reps. - 1 minute aggro timer to stop docking/jumping if the person being repped has an aggro timer - The neutral repper, if repping people at war, becomes a valid war target to the opposing side for the duration of the war - If person 1 reps person 2 who destroys person 3, person 3 has killrights on person 1 for the 4 weeks from that point. This from my experience of being a noob for losing against people who use neutral remote reps.
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2009.12.22 17:27:00 - [23] It adds complexity to high-sec warfare and, unless I'm mistaken, is kind of a moot point in low/null sec? The only problem I see is that the neutral is not treated in every way as a combat participant - e.g. they can insta-dock and/or use gates.
CrackD0wn	Posted - 2009.12.22 18:30:00 - [24] I agree that neutral RR is BS. My corp has just come from a wardeck with a merc corp that suffered losses amounting to 2.5bil in ships and modules where my alliance lost 1.5bil across 2 total campaigns. The first campaign we lost due to the remote reppers. we decided to consort to gorilla warfare tactics on the second campaign. Small fast assault frigs and and Hacs taking the fight straight to their mission runners about 10 jumps away. the defining moment came when we blew up one of their carebear corp members in a faction shuttle and killed his pod. we found out after the fact that the pod kill amounted to about 1.7bil in lost implants. This caused their alliance to get all butt hurt cause their carebear corps started leaving the alliance. One of the tactics we found that helped us out is when they brought in the reppers we have ECM that we had for backup to keep them from targeting us. they decided to drop their reppers and go for ECCM backups and when we noticed this sowe started fitting 50% of our 22-30man fleet with neuts and the other 50% with remote armor reps and remote shield reps. These are very solid tactics. but yes the remote reps from neutrals is BS because it gives the enemy a backup force that can not be attacked. Last time i checked in warfare of any kind anyone that was giving aide to an enemy was considered an enemy. You could also decide to wardeck the remote repping fleet. that could serve as 2 things. the Rep fleet will either dock up cause their ships are now fair targets or they will start dropping like flies when it comes to engagements. cause then you just primary the remote reppers.
NobodyHolme Gallente Colonial Fleet Services Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.22 19:14:00 - [25] Count Remote Repair on a target being attacked by someone as agressing the attacking ship for all game mechanics. Would break neutral RR due to the good old CONCORDOKKEN, and trigger countdowns. This from a logistics pilot. Because I can.
Cattegirn Rampant SR	Posted - 2009.12.22 23:55:00 - [26] What do we think folks? We hates them. I can only imagine that it is some technical/programming problem that it isn't otherwise. Rampant Corp - Strategy Articles and PVP Training
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.12.23 00:20:00 - [27] If you remove this 'feature' pretty much every mercenary corp in the game would disband over night. ---
Louis deGuerre Gallente The Rise of The Dragon Knights Void Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.23 00:22:00 - [28] Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 23/12/2009 00:21:57 Lols @ "Gorilla Warfare Tactics" The enemy of my enemy is my friend But the friend of my enemy is not my enemy Kinda lame yeah trains logistics Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie ROTDK is recruiting
AFK Cloaker Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.12.23 01:06:00 - [29] Stop fighting on station. Or CCP change so you can't dock if pointed.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2009.12.23 02:08:00 - [30] Originally by: FU22 Brb RR'ing privateers for free war decs Count me in. WHY did they have to nerf Alliance P? Gah. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org

SweetHoney	Posted - 2009.12.23 18:54:00 - [31] You do have the same option, You can do it too so i don't see any problem w/ that. Also don't forget you can counterattack it You have access for the tools. The "neutral" repper is flagged, free to shot or let say jamm ? or bring your neutral repper and .... it is really silly but you have to prepare yourself for this always.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.12.24 05:15:00 - [32] It was ok for Falcons to be overpowered too because you should have just brought your own one amirite. ---
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.24 07:48:00 - [33] In effect this whole argument comes down to "waaah, the others brought more group oriented ships, they cheat by using tactics!". Mind you, if it's a agreed 1 vs 1 then it's BS but in every other situation; do as you can and use all the options available to you. As long as CCP keeps allowing for it by not changing the agression rules, be as creative as you can. I'm not here to give others good fightsÖ, I'm here to have fun and to me fun comes from having my plan, strategy, teamwork and preparation work rather than going in headfirst to see where things end. Mind you, I don't have an RR alt atm (closed the account, playing 7 accs gets silly) but I have no issues with it. EVE is full of surprises and everyone is out there to gain an advantage, don't start yelling if the other guys pull a rabbit out of their hat and make SURE they have the advantage. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.12.24 08:12:00 - [34] I don't see how changing neutral logistics to give aggression changes that, if you are prepared, have a plan and a strategy, then you should be able to account for your logistic getting shot and have secondary reppers or a form of tank fitted on the logistic ship, or use range to your advantage. Right now logistic ships are used by idiots without a plan that just dock hug in paper-thin max cap recharge setups and instantly dock/jump when they start getting shot. ---
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.24 09:27:00 - [35] Edited by: Marko Riva on 24/12/2009 09:28:51 If people are station huggers and unwilling to leave the safety of the instadock then so be it, it's a bit silly but they pay their 15 euro so they get to do what they want. To me it would be boring but having said that; I'm sure the stuff and (and you) do would sound boring/silly to other people. You know how to deal with station huggers, leave the station. The thing really is this, to me all tactics are fair as long as they're within the game rules. People moaning about how unfair station hugging is or using neutral RR are no different from people making a post in GD moaning how they lost their CNR and how the game should be changed to suit THEIR inactive/lazy playstyle. Personally I'm all for EVE being EVE; cutthroat, no safety net and it's all about how good you are and leave everything else to the players. But what I don't like it things to be overpowered, there needs to be balance and right now RRing (in high sec) IS overpowered as you're able to dock without having a timer. I WOULD like to see RRing giving you a docking timer but apart from that; deal with it. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Liisa Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.12.24 10:03:00 - [36] Edited by: Liisa on 24/12/2009 10:04:00 I think that the argument goes both ways. If you use a neutral alt to repair you, you cannot complain when the other guy brings friends in order to up the dps to a point where he can pop you. You are, in fact, forcing him to blob you. If you blob people, don't be surprised when they call in neutral alts/friends to repair themselves. Fair is fair, after all. Short version: it is in eve, it is there and you have to adapt to it. edit The only change I would like to see would be to make remote reps activate the aggro timer which prevents docking/jumping.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2009.12.24 11:10:00 - [37] Originally by: a Six Edited by: a Six on 22/12/2009 01:39:41 You engage a wt and suddenly a blob of neutrals start remote repping them. Given the current game mechanics it's totally legit and far be it for me to complain that someone is using the tools available to them... but should this one be available? What do we think folks? IMHO: Yes it should be available but the remote reppers should turn flashy red to the attackers. It's unbalanced at the moment. ---------------------- They're angry there was damage done to their ship.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.12.24 19:58:00 - [38] They do turn flashy red, the problem is you can't kill the reppers because although you can shoot them, they don't gain agression so can just instantly re dock/jump, giving a huge advantage to the person they are repairing while not committing or risking anything themselves. I have no problem with people using them, a bit of a lame tactic some might say, but it's eve. It goes the same way too though, this is eve why are some players allowed to have a huge advantage without risking that advantage. ---
Robert0288 Caldari R E D E M P T I O N Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:50:00 - [39] Edited by: Robert0288 on 24/12/2009 21:50:25 When I was flying through empire last with my loggy, I found 2 cruisers trying to kill each other on the gate. So I RR'd both of them including their drones. This lead to alot of WTF's in local . I was really bored that day
Charming Killer	Posted - 2009.12.27 12:12:00 - [40] IMO the only thing that should change would be an agression counter same as if the repper fired a shot, stopping him from docking the instant he gets targeted. they already turn red so no problem there. just prevent them from jumping thru a gate or docking same as the combat pilots

Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.12.27 13:12:00 - [41] Neutrals are usually 2nd accounts. More accounts = more money for CCP.
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2009.12.29 18:09:00 - [42] Neutrals also mess up your ability to know what you're fighting in a system, since they won't be flashy red until they engage. So you think you're facing a gang of 5 WTs in a system (as determined by local), but in fact they've got a pair of neutral RRs there as well - you just have no way of knowing until they start RR'ing. Thats another problem/feature of neutral reps.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.12.29 18:55:00 - [43] Edited by: Mel Lifera on 29/12/2009 18:59:39 You guys are all talking about neutral RRs as basically your WTs' alter egos in disguise. What about us actually-neutral reppers who have nothing to do with either side, but just see some huge station game going on and start RRing arbitrarily-selected participants for no reason other than laughs (or tears)? I've always wanted to try RRing both sides in a 1v1 just to make the fight last longer. More on point: do you disagree with the use of neutral scouts, neutral haulers, or neutral CB corps that keep your WT corp stocked with supplies, ISK, free intel, and the like? Imagine seeing system after system of no war targets after a few days, bragging to each other about how you ran your WTs to ground, only to find out a month later that they somehow re-established themselves three regions away in the middle of your wardec by using neutral haulers right under your nose. Should it be allowed? I think so. Why not?
Tolgar Caldari Interstellar Pie Fanatics	Posted - 2009.12.29 21:16:00 - [44] Don't forget there's also the folks that bring 5 BS to fight and 15 neut reps to make themselves invincible, even when you yourself are also bringing 5 BS to the fight. Defiantly needs some kind of timer, lets say an assistance timer, atm, its just pointless to actually fight in high sec unless the other party is extremely stupid/unlucky/n00b, and then that's more of a gank than a fight...
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2009.12.30 00:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Mel Lifera You guys are all talking about neutral RRs as basically your WTs' alter egos in disguise. What about us actually-neutral reppers who have nothing to do with either side, but just see some huge station game going on and start RRing arbitrarily-selected participants for no reason other than laughs (or tears)? I've always wanted to try RRing both sides in a 1v1 just to make the fight last longer. Its fun until one side decides to have more fun than you by concording themselves to watch your neut RR ship pop.
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.30 11:59:00 - [46] It is totally lame because the neutral won't be flagged as aggressor, so you must hold the sentries and the standing hit if you want killing the neut repper. Anyway, as in this game there is no honor or whatever I've stopped complaining and bought my own neutral repper. Very lame but will works until CCP do something!!!
Elldranga	Posted - 2009.12.30 13:58:00 - [47] The whole concept is great... I love it... however, any active module used to aid the combat should generate the usual agro timers. That includes RR, warfare links, etc.
Cearain	Posted - 2009.12.31 04:31:00 - [48] Its a horribly bad mechanic. The repper should be counted as aggroing whoever the person he reps is attacking. As far as I'm concerned in high sec concord could blow up the "neutral" repper.
Dani Leone Gallente Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.12.31 09:59:00 - [49] I've seen a fair bit of this in low sec since joining the minnie militia, jokers coming along to rep war targets in nice fat domis and such which, thanks to gate guns, are unlikely to be pre-emptively engaged due to the light and fast nature of most militia fleets. Of course these neuts do go flashy and often die, but more as often they simply jump out/dock with nothing other than a simple flag timer applied. The last time I'd seen neutral reppers used in Empire before this was during a war dec when I had camped a sole target into a station and he eventually decided to come out and play, bless, he decided to rep his drake with an armour repping exqueror, they both died as his Exe somehow drifted out of docking range. And I managed to pod the drake pilot into the bargain with my Cyclone, no doubt as he struggled to save his logi alt. And I have once used it myself to get agro flagged and attacked so I could then swap out to a BS and lay down some damage. But thinking about this and the way war mechanics and empire agression work, although it wont be, it probably ought to be deemed an exploit. Corps and Alliances have to pay war fees to circumvent the Concord and Gate/Station Guns mechanism when commiting aggression in Empire. In this case a player is commiting a hostile act against a neutral target by proxy, in a high or low security area, and avoiding the normal consequences that would accrue if they were to activate a hostile module directly on the target. Just like Repping a rat, or a suicide ganker in High sec, this should bring on a swift concord/gate gun response for the repper including full aggro cant dock/jump. It doesn't because the flag transferred is merely a war agression flag and not a GCC. But the fact is, if CCP say it's not an exploit then it is fair game, and just one more use of good tactics to get a target to hang himself out to dry by engaging a superior force in hidden dire circumstances.
Vixisti Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.12.31 12:40:00 - [50] The only thing that needs fixing and has needed fixing for some time is the fact that it doesn't cause an aggro timer so logistics can just jump out or dock at any time. This is flawed mechanics IMO. BTW I can fly all the logi ships but even I can see that the mechanic is broken.

Stupiter	Posted - 2009.12.31 23:33:00 - [51] I am STUPITER!
dolmant	Posted - 2010.01.01 02:49:00 - [52] +1 for logistic aggression timers. Also, they should go flashy to everyone involved in the combat. They should also probably get a faction hit (to the other milita, obviously) when repping a milita target. After all, if i repped someone in the amarr milita, I would get a hit, so why not a neutral? Even with the war dec flag, we cant kill neutral reps on a gate because you have to aggress the war target the logistics is repping before he goes flashy to you. Therefore, you cant jump through and tackle. Seriously, logistics is all well and good, but it is wayy to overpowered for something that you cant see in system, and has absolutely ZERO risk in high sec and almost none in low sec.
AlmightyLordOf Jita	Posted - 2010.01.01 03:30:00 - [53] fRESH bUMP - HappY NeW YEar
Swatyy Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.01.01 14:36:00 - [54] Working as intended. [Youtube.com] --- Blog: Evolving Paradigms Combat Videos: YouTube
Rail Gun Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2010.01.01 19:49:00 - [55] We think it's annoying, but generates many tears... so we think it should stay
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.01.02 17:13:00 - [56] I have no problem with Neutral RR, I do have a problem with being able to Neutral RR and still dock instantly. I say if you RR someone who has a docking agro timer, the RR starts your own docking agro timer. That way they can't just Neutral RR, get agro, dock up and come out in something bigger. or Neutral RR, and dock up cause they getting shot at. As it stands now, Neutral RR'ing is a no risk occupation so long as you stay next to station.
Niclas Solo Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.03 17:01:00 - [57] Nothing wrong with neutral RR but i don't understand why they doesn't get a aggro timer? that is just wrong. Should be very easy for CCP to fix. Same if you steal from a wreck or a can why let them insta dock? give them a timer so they have to fight for the stuff they want.
uperkurk	Posted - 2010.01.03 17:15:00 - [58] Its very simple to fix and could most likely happen over night. The person repper gets a delay from docking or jumping as soon as they start to rep. Very easy thing to fix and should be fixed imo
Meowizer	Posted - 2010.01.06 01:40:00 - [59] Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Neutrals also mess up your ability to know what you're fighting in a system, since they won't be flashy red until they engage. So you think you're facing a gang of 5 WTs in a system (as determined by local), but in fact they've got a pair of neutral RRs there as well - you just have no way of knowing until they start RR'ing. Thats another problem/feature of neutral reps. This is the only problem with neutral RR. All the other problems revolve around RR in general, neutral or not. I also want to add another perspective - the only times I've gotten fair and good fights in highsec is when I've had surprise neutral RR to back me up. When people only want to fight when they significantly outnumber you (most highsec ppl do this), neutral RR can be a good way to get fair fights.
Cambarus The Compass Reloaded	Posted - 2010.01.06 02:09:00 - [60] Originally by: uperkurk Its very simple to fix and could most likely happen over night. The person repper gets a delay from docking or jumping as soon as they start to rep. Very easy thing to fix and should be fixed imo This. It keeps getting suggested, no one seems to be against it, so why it hasn't been implemented yet is beyond me.

Flashh Gorden Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.01.07 16:39:00 - [61] If you think about it though its not that simple to fix. If remote repping a ship with an aggro timer triggered an aggro timer on the ship doing the repping,how would this pan out on a fleet of ships spider tanking long enough to disingage from a fight and either jump or dock up? Fact is it would no longer be possible because atleast one of the ships in the fleet would have an aggro timer. This would drasticly alter the way remote repping fleets operate. You could go down the road of saying that Inter corp or inter alliance repping causes no agression while repping somone from outside your corp/alliance does. This though could get very messy when fleets are formed from multiple alliances and corps. If you get around that by allowing everyone in the fleet to rep without agression then the nuetral reppers would just fleet up with each other. Yes the problem needs adressing but I dont think its as simple to fix as many people are making out.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.07 19:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Dilligafmofo I believe this tactic should remain viable, but should flag the repper to the opposing force for the entirety of the war. Just sayin' Or at least 15 minutes. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Ned Black	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:08:00 - [63] There are a few ways to at least improve this... Harshest way... When you try to RR a rat concord comes and blows you away. So if you RR an engaged WT that is not of your corp then that is considered a crime so concord comes and blows the repper away. The screams and tears of just about every merc corp out there would be super sweet if this ever happened Medium way... If you rep someone that is not part of your corp while that person is agressed you get a warning. If you ignore it you then get agressed and part of the wardec for the duration of the war. This way you can get the drop of your enemys the first time but after that they will know about your alt and that alt is free game for the opposing side. Current way... total suckage tbh since there is basicly no risk for the RR alt. A very good and viable tactic using the current system, but still total suckage.
uperkurk	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:24:00 - [64] Your making it more complicated then it really is. If your in lowsec or 0.0 then there would be no delay. I think only people in the same fleet can rep each other. so you cant get random people outside stations just repping people cos then they will turn red and go pop :)
Fluent Designs	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:27:00 - [65] ive been involved in my fair share of fights that ended up with outsiders repping overpriced and powerd ships , this ended up with some severe losses on our side, the fact you get a agro timer on the repping ship is ok , if it were only one, it could easily be shot. However this mostly seems to happen at a station and normaly with multi accounts doing it, they can dock if you shoot at them , and then they come out in a overpriced/overpowerd ship thus giving the origional targets more firepower so its a no win situation as your team is already down a ship or two. The same people would not be war decking and fighting in those overpriced ships if there was a global placed on the repship and it was taking fire from station guns etc, this could be left off in 00 as it has no bearing on what happens in uncontroled territorys. the way it is now if i rep say a gurista npc in a belt thats attacking a miner i get a global why is that? if its game mechanics then i should only have the agro towards the mining ship correct?........ nuf said
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Construction Cabal	Posted - 2010.01.10 13:58:00 - [66] Quote: You engage a wt and suddenly a blob of neutrals start remote repping them. Given the current game mechanics it's totally legit and far be it for me to complain that someone is using the tools available to them... but should this one be available? Fighting/aiding one side in a conflict is not neutral. It is anathema to the concept of neutrality. Remote repping one side in a fight is not a neutral act. The party repping should now be a legitimate target. For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.01.11 01:26:00 - [67] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Remote repping one side in a fight is not a neutral act. The party repping should now be a legitimate target. This is the way it currently works.
Ned Black	Posted - 2010.01.11 08:42:00 - [68] Originally by: Mel Lifera Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Remote repping one side in a fight is not a neutral act. The party repping should now be a legitimate target. This is the way it currently works. The question is how long will they be legitimate targets? Right now they can rep their guts out and then 15 minutes later they can fly in circles around the opposing force and they can du frack all about it. Now if you "punished" neutral RR of a ship in combat by incurring a private wardec that is for the duration of the war with a one week minimum... that is. If the war end after two days then the repper is still wardecced for 5 more days, but if the war keeps going on for more than a week then the repper will be red for that time. Any repping done within this private warperiod would not incurr any additional time... since it would be personal it would not matter if the repper was in a noob corp or not.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.11 11:55:00 - [69] Originally by: Ned Black Originally by: Mel Lifera Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Remote repping one side in a fight is not a neutral act. The party repping should now be a legitimate target. This is the way it currently works. The question is how long will they be legitimate targets? Right now they can rep their guts out and then 15 minutes later they can fly in circles around the opposing force and they can du frack all about it. Now if you "punished" neutral RR of a ship in combat by incurring a private wardec that is for the duration of the war with a one week minimum... that is. If the war end after two days then the repper is still wardecced for 5 more days, but if the war keeps going on for more than a week then the repper will be red for that time. Any repping done within this private warperiod would not incurr any additional time... since it would be personal it would not matter if the repper was in a noob corp or not. Something like that would work.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:22:00 - [70] Originally by: Ned Black Originally by: Mel Lifera Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Remote repping one side in a fight is not a neutral act. The party repping should now be a legitimate target. This is the way it currently works. The question is how long will they be legitimate targets? Right now they can rep their guts out and then 15 minutes later they can fly in circles around the opposing force and they can du frack all about it. ...because at that point they're not doing anything. If they decide to rep again, they get another timer. Neither can they "rep their guts out", because they become flashy red the very instant they start repping, and can be shot at immediately. So shoot at them. If they leave, dock, or whatever - well, they're not repping anymore, so return to the business at hand. It's extremely unlikely that they'll be able to help again, considering that most battles last nowhere near the 15 minutes it takes for the timer to run out. And if they're that much of a bother, then wardec his corp. If he's in an NPC corp, that's just too bad; there really is no possible way around that. I can't see one. I mean, people can come up with solutions like your "private", single-person wardec on that one person, but I'm not sure that's even possible without weeks and weeks and weeks of recoding on CCP's part and the "neutral RR problem" is just not big enough of a deal to make it worth it.

Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.01.11 19:30:00 - [71] Originally by: a Six Edited by: a Six on 22/12/2009 01:39:41 You engage a wt and suddenly a blob of neutrals start remote repping them. Given the current game mechanics it's totally legit and far be it for me to complain that someone is using the tools available to them... but should this one be available? What do we think folks? When will you be on Jerry Springer ? --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.01.13 10:20:00 - [72] Real easy fix. I said it before. If you Rep a person that has a docking agro timer, you get a fresh docking agro timer. That will pretty much kill neut reps cause then most of em will get popped. Problem right now is the ability to instantly dock up. Get rid of the insta dock, and make it so they have to sit out side like they shot at someone for alittle while, and suddenly you'll see neut rr drop to near nothing.
Laraella Drougin	Posted - 2010.01.13 10:27:00 - [73] Actually, wheres the harm in making RR give you a docking timer. Leave off the jump timer, as it'd be horrible and stupid, but you cant really complain about being unable to dock due to it... Seriously. Shouldnt require that much new code either.
Sinner Cain	Posted - 2010.01.15 13:56:00 - [74] Ok while we are complaining about neutral RR lets complain about neutral hauling of assets too. What about neutral alts that supply all kinds of information, such as spies. Wait lets change the fact that you can have neutral scouts. Seriously guys IMO its part of the game. I agree with the aggro timer because technically they are involved in combat. The including them in the war, is going a little to far.If you start this why not include any one you trade assets too. Here's the thing you need to remember before you engage your rival, you need to also know his allies. Any time you are at war , people use game mechanics to their advantage. I use every game mechanic I can to my advantage. If you don't want to see your war target get remote reps from a neutral , simply don't have war targets. I have learned through experience that you never under estimate your opponent or the things he will do to win a fight , battle or war.


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