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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 08:20:00 -
[61]
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 08:20:00 -
[62]
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:35:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: DeFood
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
And you really expect them to make a whole bunch of low level balance changes that would take months to get right? They are a business and so will take the course of action that has less players complaining and quitting.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:35:00 -
[64]
Originally by: DeFood
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
And you really expect them to make a whole bunch of low level balance changes that would take months to get right? They are a business and so will take the course of action that has less players complaining and quitting.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:45:00 -
[65]
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:45:00 -
[66]
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.11.17 10:06:00 -
[67]
Originally by: DeFood
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
I don't think that those Bookmarks actuall break the Immersion, as they're part of the EVE-Universe, as much as your ship and the gate. It needs a bit of practice to do those BMs, and even when you got your way creating those Bookmarks it still takes a lot of time to prepare a set for a special route (not to mention the risk involved doing those BMs in dangerous space).
I also see it like mentioned above, taking time and running around the routes you use most often to look for shortcuts or whatever in order to speed up future travels.
Sure, Station and Gate Managers wouldlike to stop the constant slamming of their stations or Gates with ships, imagine it like someone cutting a corner a bit too close and leaves some of his paint at the wall, if you want immersion 
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.11.17 10:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: DeFood
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
I don't think that those Bookmarks actuall break the Immersion, as they're part of the EVE-Universe, as much as your ship and the gate. It needs a bit of practice to do those BMs, and even when you got your way creating those Bookmarks it still takes a lot of time to prepare a set for a special route (not to mention the risk involved doing those BMs in dangerous space).
I also see it like mentioned above, taking time and running around the routes you use most often to look for shortcuts or whatever in order to speed up future travels.
Sure, Station and Gate Managers wouldlike to stop the constant slamming of their stations or Gates with ships, imagine it like someone cutting a corner a bit too close and leaves some of his paint at the wall, if you want immersion
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Naomi Venture
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: DeFood
The list I have here however is a list of things that, well, basically make me think Im paying to play an incomplete beta with some critical mechanisims not worked out:
If you think this is like playing in a beta, you probably haven't played much MMORPGs.
And if you have, you didn't pay attention.
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Naomi Venture
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: DeFood
The list I have here however is a list of things that, well, basically make me think Im paying to play an incomplete beta with some critical mechanisims not worked out:
If you think this is like playing in a beta, you probably haven't played much MMORPGs.
And if you have, you didn't pay attention.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:50:00 -
[71]
Originally by: DeFood
jetcan mining is the logical outcome of a. providing jetcans, b. giving the best mining ships teeny holds such that they cant even carry large cans, and c. havinga tutorial that demonstrates to rank newbies how to jettison and retrieve veldspar.
it looks to me that jetcan mining is completely intentional. by design. expected. etc.
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system. 
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:50:00 -
[72]
Originally by: DeFood
jetcan mining is the logical outcome of a. providing jetcans, b. giving the best mining ships teeny holds such that they cant even carry large cans, and c. havinga tutorial that demonstrates to rank newbies how to jettison and retrieve veldspar.
it looks to me that jetcan mining is completely intentional. by design. expected. etc.
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
SkrittaK
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:01:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Necronomicon
I know, why dont you write your own space game as it will obviously be l33t compared to teh flawed codez of CCP. Changing rules/mechanics of a game after it has been released is a damn sight better than it not being released at all. Everything has bugs, nothing can be perfect by definition that it is created by man, who is not perfect.
/emote installs sarcasm +3 implant
CCP, this man is a genius, immediately withdraw EVE, and finish it; I will be sitting by my PC waiting for the next year to log back in.
/emote removes sarcasm +3 implant
Apologies for Necro...the smarmy git  lol
Semper Fidelis
Legion boys, we are here, shag your women and drink your beer! :) |
SkrittaK
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:01:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Necronomicon
I know, why dont you write your own space game as it will obviously be l33t compared to teh flawed codez of CCP. Changing rules/mechanics of a game after it has been released is a damn sight better than it not being released at all. Everything has bugs, nothing can be perfect by definition that it is created by man, who is not perfect.
/emote installs sarcasm +3 implant
CCP, this man is a genius, immediately withdraw EVE, and finish it; I will be sitting by my PC waiting for the next year to log back in.
/emote removes sarcasm +3 implant
Apologies for Necro...the smarmy git lol
Semper Fidelis
Legion boys, we are here, shag your women and drink your beer! :) |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:08:00 -
[75]
DeFood,
Hellmar or Oveur have replied and said that they have accepted InstaJump BMs. They are part of the game and have been justified and in an RP way.
So much for your second point.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:08:00 -
[76]
DeFood,
Hellmar or Oveur have replied and said that they have accepted InstaJump BMs. They are part of the game and have been justified and in an RP way.
So much for your second point.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Wrangler
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
Well then, lets ammend the list to be the three big unfinished things:
1. enforcement of minimum warp distances.
2. obstacle avoidance.
3. jetcan mining.
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:19:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Wrangler
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
Well then, lets ammend the list to be the three big unfinished things:
1. enforcement of minimum warp distances.
2. obstacle avoidance.
3. jetcan mining.
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: DeFood
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
That's how it was in Beta. Back before there were industrials.
When Industrials were released (rare as they were), people found out that using them to gather up mined minerals was faster then mine -> dock -> mine -> repeat.
It wasn't intended by CCP, is was a nifty side-effect of those jetcans used by innovative players. It stuck ever since, and CCP have accepted it as 'smart thinking' on the players' side.
However, the jetcans were initially intended as cans for throwing stuff away and CCP have kept that reasoning so they wouldn't have worry about petitions (omg he stole my ore) and the like.
In retail it became a problem, in that people are unwilling to accept the risk that comes with a jettisoned can. Hence, CCP introduced the secure containers.
In Shiva/Exodus, taking ore or anything else from someone can will mean the stuff you took gets contraband flagged. Perhaps Concord will come to smoke you, fine you, or perhaps it just alows you to be shot by the person whose stuff you took. I'm hoping for the latter. People depend too much on NPC protection anyway  .
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: DeFood
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
That's how it was in Beta. Back before there were industrials.
When Industrials were released (rare as they were), people found out that using them to gather up mined minerals was faster then mine -> dock -> mine -> repeat.
It wasn't intended by CCP, is was a nifty side-effect of those jetcans used by innovative players. It stuck ever since, and CCP have accepted it as 'smart thinking' on the players' side.
However, the jetcans were initially intended as cans for throwing stuff away and CCP have kept that reasoning so they wouldn't have worry about petitions (omg he stole my ore) and the like.
In retail it became a problem, in that people are unwilling to accept the risk that comes with a jettisoned can. Hence, CCP introduced the secure containers.
In Shiva/Exodus, taking ore or anything else from someone can will mean the stuff you took gets contraband flagged. Perhaps Concord will come to smoke you, fine you, or perhaps it just alows you to be shot by the person whose stuff you took. I'm hoping for the latter. People depend too much on NPC protection anyway .
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:40:00 -
[81]
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:40:00 -
[82]
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:55:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Rad Seitis
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
It is an MMO, which are generally "work-in-progress" for the simple fact it is in CCP's best interests to keep a lot of people playing for a long time. So they have to constantly add new content to keep old players busy, while making sure new players arent overwhelmed or severely disadvantaged.
If you want to play a game that is not "work-in-progress" go buy a single player game that is at least a year old (damn patches) ;)
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Rad Seitis
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
It is an MMO, which are generally "work-in-progress" for the simple fact it is in CCP's best interests to keep a lot of people playing for a long time. So they have to constantly add new content to keep old players busy, while making sure new players arent overwhelmed or severely disadvantaged.
If you want to play a game that is not "work-in-progress" go buy a single player game that is at least a year old (damn patches) ;)
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 13:06:00 -
[85]
Ah, a forum troll, I've been expecting you.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 13:06:00 -
[86]
Ah, a forum troll, I've been expecting you.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.19 14:08:00 -
[87]
Good grief... How could I foirget this. Well, its a problem caused by the - collision logic but:
The #1 unfinished EVE feature is Getting stuck in the station model when launching. How bloody unprofessional is that!
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.19 14:08:00 -
[88]
Good grief... How could I foirget this. Well, its a problem caused by the - collision logic but:
The #1 unfinished EVE feature is Getting stuck in the station model when launching. How bloody unprofessional is that!
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