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DeFood
   |
Posted - 2004.11.16 14:54:00 -
[1]
While there are many things in EVE I wish it had most of them fall fully in the feature-request category. The list I have here however is a list of things that, well, basically make me think Im paying to play an incomplete beta with some critical mechanisims not worked out:
1. Collision logic & obstacle avoidance. Do I need to explain why (a) crashing into things I havnt actually hit, and (b) getting "stuck" in cluttered spaces just dont feel like this part of the game is done yet?
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
Various other low grade irritations:
3. The fact that all incomming gunfire hits a ship on the exact same point - usuall the tip of the nose. Why cant shots be spread around a ship a bit, and/or, when they miss, actually miss???
4. Engine trails that pass through bits of the ship. Ok - I can understand the difficulty of fixing this, more to the point - why do certain ship models have structure directly behind an engine exhaust so even in straight flight theres an intersection?
5. Usually if we do something at the wrong time, a subtle warning message indicates why the action cannot be completed. However, when attempting to target, we get a modal dialog that must be closed!
6. Being an explorer I go looking for stuff. When I find derelict ships and stuff, instead of "Derelict Station" I get what appears to be DB code names. Finding an "as_military1" makes it look like someone started creating derelict sites, but gave up before naming anything.
But really, back to the big 2. When are we going to get past this insta BM colliding madness and actually release EVE v1. Nevermind these Castor and Shiva expansion packs?
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DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 14:54:00 -
[2]
While there are many things in EVE I wish it had most of them fall fully in the feature-request category. The list I have here however is a list of things that, well, basically make me think Im paying to play an incomplete beta with some critical mechanisims not worked out:
1. Collision logic & obstacle avoidance. Do I need to explain why (a) crashing into things I havnt actually hit, and (b) getting "stuck" in cluttered spaces just dont feel like this part of the game is done yet?
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
Various other low grade irritations:
3. The fact that all incomming gunfire hits a ship on the exact same point - usuall the tip of the nose. Why cant shots be spread around a ship a bit, and/or, when they miss, actually miss???
4. Engine trails that pass through bits of the ship. Ok - I can understand the difficulty of fixing this, more to the point - why do certain ship models have structure directly behind an engine exhaust so even in straight flight theres an intersection?
5. Usually if we do something at the wrong time, a subtle warning message indicates why the action cannot be completed. However, when attempting to target, we get a modal dialog that must be closed!
6. Being an explorer I go looking for stuff. When I find derelict ships and stuff, instead of "Derelict Station" I get what appears to be DB code names. Finding an "as_military1" makes it look like someone started creating derelict sites, but gave up before naming anything.
But really, back to the big 2. When are we going to get past this insta BM colliding madness and actually release EVE v1. Nevermind these Castor and Shiva expansion packs?
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Necronomicon
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:33:00 -
[3]
I know, why dont you write your own space game as it will obviously be l33t compared to teh flawed codez of CCP. Changing rules/mechanics of a game after it has been released is a damn sight better than it not being released at all. Everything has bugs, nothing can be perfect by definition that it is created by man, who is not perfect.
/emote installs sarcasm +3 implant
CCP, this man is a genius, immediately withdraw EVE, and finish it; I will be sitting by my PC waiting for the next year to log back in.
/emote removes sarcasm +3 implant
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |
Necronomicon
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:33:00 -
[4]
I know, why dont you write your own space game as it will obviously be l33t compared to teh flawed codez of CCP. Changing rules/mechanics of a game after it has been released is a damn sight better than it not being released at all. Everything has bugs, nothing can be perfect by definition that it is created by man, who is not perfect.
/emote installs sarcasm +3 implant
CCP, this man is a genius, immediately withdraw EVE, and finish it; I will be sitting by my PC waiting for the next year to log back in.
/emote removes sarcasm +3 implant
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |
Pacman
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Posted - 2004.11.16 15:36:00 -
[5]
/emote hits DeFood on the head with a stick
bad DeFood
|
Pacman
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:36:00 -
[6]
/emote hits DeFood on the head with a stick
bad DeFood
|
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.11.16 15:36:00 -
[7]
Dammit why did you remove it? Do you realize how rare those implants are, I've never even heard of them, you'd make a fortune selling them 
|
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.11.16 15:36:00 -
[8]
Dammit why did you remove it? Do you realize how rare those implants are, I've never even heard of them, you'd make a fortune selling them
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Badshah
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:37:00 -
[9]
DeFood, could you please give me a run-down on the whole, InstaJumps thing? I do not know what you are talking about, why it is a bad thing and what you want done about it. Please start by telling me what an Instajump is.
Just me,
Bad |
Badshah
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:37:00 -
[10]
DeFood, could you please give me a run-down on the whole, InstaJumps thing? I do not know what you are talking about, why it is a bad thing and what you want done about it. Please start by telling me what an Instajump is.
Just me,
Bad |
Necronomicon
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Necronomicon on 16/11/2004 15:41:13
 Originally by: Scorpyn
Dammit why did you remove it? Do you realize how rare those implants are, I've never even heard of them, you'd make a fortune selling them
It was only a +3, I got a stack of +4s for people who deserve them; being sarcastic here is easy, but I must remove them during flight, or simple requests in system seem to get me podded somehow :P
EDIT : Seems someone else has found some of these implants as well 
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |
Necronomicon
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Necronomicon on 16/11/2004 15:41:13
Originally by: Scorpyn
Dammit why did you remove it? Do you realize how rare those implants are, I've never even heard of them, you'd make a fortune selling them
It was only a +3, I got a stack of +4s for people who deserve them; being sarcastic here is easy, but I must remove them during flight, or simple requests in system seem to get me podded somehow :P
EDIT : Seems someone else has found some of these implants as well
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:39:00 -
[13]
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:39:00 -
[14]
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:40:00 -
[15]
Changing the rules and mechanics? This post isnt about rules and mechanics I disagree with. If it was Id be *****ing about mining. But, mining for all that I hate it, is in and it works the way its intended (no doubt) to worl. As regards these points I just want CCP to actually implement something. Anything really. There are just big holes in the design right now.
// TODO: Implement collision logic here.
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DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:40:00 -
[16]
Changing the rules and mechanics? This post isnt about rules and mechanics I disagree with. If it was Id be *****ing about mining. But, mining for all that I hate it, is in and it works the way its intended (no doubt) to worl. As regards these points I just want CCP to actually implement something. Anything really. There are just big holes in the design right now.
// TODO: Implement collision logic here.
|
Aodha Khan
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hakera
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
imo this is one of the games largest flaws. It's never too late.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Aodha Khan
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hakera
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
imo this is one of the games largest flaws. It's never too late.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Ghost Red
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:43:00 -
[19]
FFS
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Ghost Red
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:43:00 -
[20]
FFS
--------------------------------------------
Misomusic! |
Badshah
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:47:00 -
[21]
Could someone take a moment to explain what an InstJump is? I hear this term quite often and I do not know what this is about.
Just me,
Bad |
Badshah
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:47:00 -
[22]
Could someone take a moment to explain what an InstJump is? I hear this term quite often and I do not know what this is about.
Just me,
Bad |
Aodha Khan
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:48:00 -
[23]
IJ is a bookmark thats made so when you warp to the stargate you are already within jump range.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Aodha Khan
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:48:00 -
[24]
IJ is a bookmark thats made so when you warp to the stargate you are already within jump range.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Badshah
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:49:00 -
[25]
Thanks for explaining. That sounds really cool. I think I will go out and set up some at all my favorite stargates. Hope they don't 'fix' this.
Just me,
Bad |
Badshah
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:49:00 -
[26]
Thanks for explaining. That sounds really cool. I think I will go out and set up some at all my favorite stargates. Hope they don't 'fix' this.
Just me,
Bad |
DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 15:50:00 -
[27]
jetcan mining is the logical outcome of a. providing jetcans, b. giving the best mining ships teeny holds such that they cant even carry large cans, and c. havinga tutorial that demonstrates to rank newbies how to jettison and retrieve veldspar.
it looks to me that jetcan mining is completely intentional. by design. expected. etc.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.16 15:50:00 -
[28]
jetcan mining is the logical outcome of a. providing jetcans, b. giving the best mining ships teeny holds such that they cant even carry large cans, and c. havinga tutorial that demonstrates to rank newbies how to jettison and retrieve veldspar.
it looks to me that jetcan mining is completely intentional. by design. expected. etc.
|
Toran Mehtar
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:35:00 -
[29]
What are you talking about ? This game has the best collision detection ever. In fact, it's so advanced that my ship actually applies emergency thrusters before I crash into the 10km wide asteroid - wow.
Ooh wait, are you saying you want to be able to crash your ship ?
WARNING - DO NOT INSURE THIS INDIVIDUAL
KNOWN SUICIDAL TENDANCIES
/error +4 sarcasm implant malfunction detected
|
Toran Mehtar
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:35:00 -
[30]
What are you talking about ? This game has the best collision detection ever. In fact, it's so advanced that my ship actually applies emergency thrusters before I crash into the 10km wide asteroid - wow.
Ooh wait, are you saying you want to be able to crash your ship ?
WARNING - DO NOT INSURE THIS INDIVIDUAL
KNOWN SUICIDAL TENDANCIES
/error +4 sarcasm implant malfunction detected
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:38:00 -
[31]
Many of the things you are asking for were tried in the Beta.
Most were removed due to server load / performance issues.
I am sorry that you don't like the compromises which were made. Maybe sometime in the future the performance issues will be resolved and the features will return.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:38:00 -
[32]
Many of the things you are asking for were tried in the Beta.
Most were removed due to server load / performance issues.
I am sorry that you don't like the compromises which were made. Maybe sometime in the future the performance issues will be resolved and the features will return.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Sochin
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:38:00 -
[33]
heh, this reminds me of the time I spent over an hour moving an alt in a shuttle to New Eden to see the EVE Gate, only time find nothing in the system but a pretty background.
There were a bunch of those as_military1, as_research1 crap on scanner though.
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
Sochin
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:38:00 -
[34]
heh, this reminds me of the time I spent over an hour moving an alt in a shuttle to New Eden to see the EVE Gate, only time find nothing in the system but a pretty background.
There were a bunch of those as_military1, as_research1 crap on scanner though.
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
meoff
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:50:00 -
[35]
Edited by: meoff on 16/11/2004 16:53:56
Edited by: meoff on 16/11/2004 16:53:04
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
You can do this now, delete 90% of your BM's please do 
|
meoff
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 16:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: meoff on 16/11/2004 16:53:56
Edited by: meoff on 16/11/2004 16:53:04
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
You can do this now, delete 90% of your BM's please do
|
Ruari
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:10:00 -
[37]
Hi,
About the Jetcan mining (it's my second day playing) aren't you just removing x amount of mined material to get more space in your cargo, only to not be able to put it back because you still ony have a certain amount of cargo space? Or is there something else related to this I don't know about?
Also, what's wrong with the IJ thing. I think it sucks that you have to stop 15k out only to spend the next 5 minutes flying close enough to dock or warp. Just seems silly to me, but admittedly, I'm a newb so I could be missing the bigger picture.
Ruari
|
Ruari
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:10:00 -
[38]
Hi,
About the Jetcan mining (it's my second day playing) aren't you just removing x amount of mined material to get more space in your cargo, only to not be able to put it back because you still ony have a certain amount of cargo space? Or is there something else related to this I don't know about?
Also, what's wrong with the IJ thing. I think it sucks that you have to stop 15k out only to spend the next 5 minutes flying close enough to dock or warp. Just seems silly to me, but admittedly, I'm a newb so I could be missing the bigger picture.
Ruari
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ruari
Hi,
About the Jetcan mining (it's my second day playing) aren't you just removing x amount of mined material to get more space in your cargo, only to not be able to put it back because you still ony have a certain amount of cargo space? Or is there something else related to this I don't know about?
Ruari
You don't pick it up in the same ship. You mine for a while leave the can pick up an indy and get the ore.
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ruari
Hi,
About the Jetcan mining (it's my second day playing) aren't you just removing x amount of mined material to get more space in your cargo, only to not be able to put it back because you still ony have a certain amount of cargo space? Or is there something else related to this I don't know about?
Ruari
You don't pick it up in the same ship. You mine for a while leave the can pick up an indy and get the ore.
__________
Capacitor research |
Xtreem
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:21:00 -
[41]
the only thing i agree with is the fact that u have to close the "cant target due to warp" window, as that can really take up vital seconds, other than that, nothing major at all!
|
Xtreem
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:21:00 -
[42]
the only thing i agree with is the fact that u have to close the "cant target due to warp" window, as that can really take up vital seconds, other than that, nothing major at all!
|
kurg
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hakera
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
Nah... IJ could be fixed by the following news: after numerous incidents of ship/structure collisions (stargates, stations etc.) concord has changed the approach ruls:
all large sturctures are now fitted with a 5km warp bubble.
Jet cans I see as a flexible (inflateable) container, that you can eject thousands of, but they offer no security, so when you are using them you are at the mercy of ore theifs and can poppers. ;)
even the paranoid has real enemies...
|
kurg
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hakera
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
Nah... IJ could be fixed by the following news: after numerous incidents of ship/structure collisions (stargates, stations etc.) concord has changed the approach ruls:
all large sturctures are now fitted with a 5km warp bubble.
Jet cans I see as a flexible (inflateable) container, that you can eject thousands of, but they offer no security, so when you are using them you are at the mercy of ore theifs and can poppers. ;)
even the paranoid has real enemies...
|
Skaz
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:59:00 -
[45]
This game has always been a work in progress, kinda like the road system in Reykjavik, Iceland....
CCP has never said otherwise, I don't think they'll even aiming at "completing" it in the near future 
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Skaz
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 17:59:00 -
[46]
This game has always been a work in progress, kinda like the road system in Reykjavik, Iceland....
CCP has never said otherwise, I don't think they'll even aiming at "completing" it in the near future
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 18:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: kurg
Originally by: Hakera
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
Nah... IJ could be fixed by the following news: after numerous incidents of ship/structure collisions (stargates, stations etc.) concord has changed the approach ruls:
all large sturctures are now fitted with a 5km warp bubble.
Jet cans I see as a flexible (inflateable) container, that you can eject thousands of, but they offer no security, so when you are using them you are at the mercy of ore theifs and can poppers. ;)
gotta agree... plz give structures a standard 5 km warp bubble.
pretty plz with suggar on top k? 
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 18:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: kurg
Originally by: Hakera
IJ are like jet can mining, never meant to be. Problem is everyone uses them now so its too late to remove them.
Nah... IJ could be fixed by the following news: after numerous incidents of ship/structure collisions (stargates, stations etc.) concord has changed the approach ruls:
all large sturctures are now fitted with a 5km warp bubble.
Jet cans I see as a flexible (inflateable) container, that you can eject thousands of, but they offer no security, so when you are using them you are at the mercy of ore theifs and can poppers. ;)
gotta agree... plz give structures a standard 5 km warp bubble.
pretty plz with suggar on top k?
Greetings Grim |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 18:09:00 -
[49]
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.16 18:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
hmmm? The devs clearly decided to limit warp-to distances to 15km. Its right there on your Warp-To menu. As such, engineering a situation where you can warp closer to an object than 15km is clearly NOT what the game design intended.
|
DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:03:00 -
[52]
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
hmmm? The devs clearly decided to limit warp-to distances to 15km. Its right there on your Warp-To menu. As such, engineering a situation where you can warp closer to an object than 15km is clearly NOT what the game design intended.
|
FoRGyL
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:18:00 -
[53]
Vivaldi??
-out-
*********************************************************
Ohhhh iyayaayaya puff ohh iyaayaya puff puff
PVR =Player vs Roid! Burr, scary peps!!! |
FoRGyL
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:18:00 -
[54]
Vivaldi??
-out-
*********************************************************
Ohhhh iyayaayaya puff ohh iyaayaya puff puff
PVR =Player vs Roid! Burr, scary peps!!! |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: DeFood
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
hmmm? The devs clearly decided to limit warp-to distances to 15km. Its right there on your Warp-To menu. As such, engineering a situation where you can warp closer to an object than 15km is clearly NOT what the game design intended.
Can't believe some people, ever seen a game ( and by god MMOGs are especially good for it ) where a huge group of intelligent players find alternative uses for game features? Not preventing that doesn't mean your game is not finished, but sometimes players outsmart devs or see things they never did. They're atm 40, we're 50,000+ simple ain't it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: DeFood
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
hmmm? The devs clearly decided to limit warp-to distances to 15km. Its right there on your Warp-To menu. As such, engineering a situation where you can warp closer to an object than 15km is clearly NOT what the game design intended.
Can't believe some people, ever seen a game ( and by god MMOGs are especially good for it ) where a huge group of intelligent players find alternative uses for game features? Not preventing that doesn't mean your game is not finished, but sometimes players outsmart devs or see things they never did. They're atm 40, we're 50,000+ simple ain't it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Thora Unni
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:57:00 -
[57]
well I live in my city.. (big surprise) I have lived her for a while.. I take short cuts and know faster ways to this place and that.
When I travel to Northern Ontario I know that if I take Highway A it cuts 20 minutes of my time.
Much like using choose fastest route...
and IJ is much the same. you have travel to the same spot so many time you taken the extra time to map out the fastest way to it..
And perhapes if Priates didn't cry so much about MWD hurting their kills the Insta jumps wouldn't be needed to protect indy pilots that travel the same route regularly.
|
Thora Unni
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 07:57:00 -
[58]
well I live in my city.. (big surprise) I have lived her for a while.. I take short cuts and know faster ways to this place and that.
When I travel to Northern Ontario I know that if I take Highway A it cuts 20 minutes of my time.
Much like using choose fastest route...
and IJ is much the same. you have travel to the same spot so many time you taken the extra time to map out the fastest way to it..
And perhapes if Priates didn't cry so much about MWD hurting their kills the Insta jumps wouldn't be needed to protect indy pilots that travel the same route regularly.
|
theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 08:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: DeFood
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
hmmm? The devs clearly decided to limit warp-to distances to 15km. Its right there on your Warp-To menu. As such, engineering a situation where you can warp closer to an object than 15km is clearly NOT what the game design intended.
Holy **** dude! Did you ever think it would take all of 10 minutes to write the code to prevent BM's being made within 15Km's of an object? Insta jumps are an unintentional effect of the BM system but the devs could remove them easily if they ever wanted.
And please explain any use of the BM system that hasn't been declared an unintentional exploit by somebody like you 1500 times(ie SS, insta jumps/docks, mining BM's)?
What do you think the dev's intended us to do when they gave us the ability to make our own BM's? 
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 08:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: DeFood
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: DeFood
2. Insta Jumps. Clearly in a finished game insta bm jumps would not be possible. I dont care how its done but every day I log on is a day I log on praying to hear that there is some way I can delete 90% of my BMs because they are no longer needed (or functional).
please explain...
hmmm? The devs clearly decided to limit warp-to distances to 15km. Its right there on your Warp-To menu. As such, engineering a situation where you can warp closer to an object than 15km is clearly NOT what the game design intended.
Holy **** dude! Did you ever think it would take all of 10 minutes to write the code to prevent BM's being made within 15Km's of an object? Insta jumps are an unintentional effect of the BM system but the devs could remove them easily if they ever wanted.
And please explain any use of the BM system that hasn't been declared an unintentional exploit by somebody like you 1500 times(ie SS, insta jumps/docks, mining BM's)?
What do you think the dev's intended us to do when they gave us the ability to make our own BM's?
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 08:20:00 -
[61]
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 08:20:00 -
[62]
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:35:00 -
[63]
Originally by: DeFood
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
And you really expect them to make a whole bunch of low level balance changes that would take months to get right? They are a business and so will take the course of action that has less players complaining and quitting.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:35:00 -
[64]
Originally by: DeFood
1. The code took longer than 10 minutes.
2. The devs DID put it in.
3. The way they coded it wrapped the gate in a 20km warp inhibitor bubble. preventing both warp in AND warp out within the bubble.
4. Mightilly did the players *****. Rightly so as the game has implicitly become balanced to assume that jump distances are trivially small even in ships that travel <100m/s.
5. So the fields were turned off again.
Simply inhibiting warps too close to gates is not the answer. The solution to the problem involves a whole set of changes - new skills, altering ships base speeds, changing the functioning of warp inhibitors, lock times etc.
And you really expect them to make a whole bunch of low level balance changes that would take months to get right? They are a business and so will take the course of action that has less players complaining and quitting.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:45:00 -
[65]
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 09:45:00 -
[66]
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.11.17 10:06:00 -
[67]
Originally by: DeFood
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
I don't think that those Bookmarks actuall break the Immersion, as they're part of the EVE-Universe, as much as your ship and the gate. It needs a bit of practice to do those BMs, and even when you got your way creating those Bookmarks it still takes a lot of time to prepare a set for a special route (not to mention the risk involved doing those BMs in dangerous space).
I also see it like mentioned above, taking time and running around the routes you use most often to look for shortcuts or whatever in order to speed up future travels.
Sure, Station and Gate Managers wouldlike to stop the constant slamming of their stations or Gates with ships, imagine it like someone cutting a corner a bit too close and leaves some of his paint at the wall, if you want immersion
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.11.17 10:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: DeFood
No. I expect them to finish the feature. One way or another. Insta jumps are not a feature I disagree with. Theyre an ****ing great hole in the immersion. metagaming at its suspension of disbelief breaking finest.
I don't think that those Bookmarks actuall break the Immersion, as they're part of the EVE-Universe, as much as your ship and the gate. It needs a bit of practice to do those BMs, and even when you got your way creating those Bookmarks it still takes a lot of time to prepare a set for a special route (not to mention the risk involved doing those BMs in dangerous space).
I also see it like mentioned above, taking time and running around the routes you use most often to look for shortcuts or whatever in order to speed up future travels.
Sure, Station and Gate Managers wouldlike to stop the constant slamming of their stations or Gates with ships, imagine it like someone cutting a corner a bit too close and leaves some of his paint at the wall, if you want immersion
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Naomi Venture
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: DeFood
The list I have here however is a list of things that, well, basically make me think Im paying to play an incomplete beta with some critical mechanisims not worked out:
If you think this is like playing in a beta, you probably haven't played much MMORPGs.
And if you have, you didn't pay attention.
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Naomi Venture
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: DeFood
The list I have here however is a list of things that, well, basically make me think Im paying to play an incomplete beta with some critical mechanisims not worked out:
If you think this is like playing in a beta, you probably haven't played much MMORPGs.
And if you have, you didn't pay attention.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:50:00 -
[71]
Originally by: DeFood
jetcan mining is the logical outcome of a. providing jetcans, b. giving the best mining ships teeny holds such that they cant even carry large cans, and c. havinga tutorial that demonstrates to rank newbies how to jettison and retrieve veldspar.
it looks to me that jetcan mining is completely intentional. by design. expected. etc.
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.11.17 11:50:00 -
[72]
Originally by: DeFood
jetcan mining is the logical outcome of a. providing jetcans, b. giving the best mining ships teeny holds such that they cant even carry large cans, and c. havinga tutorial that demonstrates to rank newbies how to jettison and retrieve veldspar.
it looks to me that jetcan mining is completely intentional. by design. expected. etc.
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
SkrittaK
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 12:01:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Necronomicon
I know, why dont you write your own space game as it will obviously be l33t compared to teh flawed codez of CCP. Changing rules/mechanics of a game after it has been released is a damn sight better than it not being released at all. Everything has bugs, nothing can be perfect by definition that it is created by man, who is not perfect.
/emote installs sarcasm +3 implant
CCP, this man is a genius, immediately withdraw EVE, and finish it; I will be sitting by my PC waiting for the next year to log back in.
/emote removes sarcasm +3 implant
Apologies for Necro...the smarmy git lol
Semper Fidelis
Legion boys, we are here, shag your women and drink your beer! :) |
SkrittaK
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 12:01:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Necronomicon
I know, why dont you write your own space game as it will obviously be l33t compared to teh flawed codez of CCP. Changing rules/mechanics of a game after it has been released is a damn sight better than it not being released at all. Everything has bugs, nothing can be perfect by definition that it is created by man, who is not perfect.
/emote installs sarcasm +3 implant
CCP, this man is a genius, immediately withdraw EVE, and finish it; I will be sitting by my PC waiting for the next year to log back in.
/emote removes sarcasm +3 implant
Apologies for Necro...the smarmy git lol
Semper Fidelis
Legion boys, we are here, shag your women and drink your beer! :) |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 12:08:00 -
[75]
DeFood,
Hellmar or Oveur have replied and said that they have accepted InstaJump BMs. They are part of the game and have been justified and in an RP way.
So much for your second point.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:08:00 -
[76]
DeFood,
Hellmar or Oveur have replied and said that they have accepted InstaJump BMs. They are part of the game and have been justified and in an RP way.
So much for your second point.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 12:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Wrangler
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
Well then, lets ammend the list to be the three big unfinished things:
1. enforcement of minimum warp distances.
2. obstacle avoidance.
3. jetcan mining.
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:19:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Wrangler
No, you're wrong, cans were never intended to be used for mining. The devs even said so, can't remember where bvut I think it was in a devchat long ago. Anyway, the problem with that has been that there is no punishment for taking stuff out of a can. The result of this problem were the secure cans, and in the long run (Exodus) the contraband system.
Well then, lets ammend the list to be the three big unfinished things:
1. enforcement of minimum warp distances.
2. obstacle avoidance.
3. jetcan mining.
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: DeFood
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
That's how it was in Beta. Back before there were industrials.
When Industrials were released (rare as they were), people found out that using them to gather up mined minerals was faster then mine -> dock -> mine -> repeat.
It wasn't intended by CCP, is was a nifty side-effect of those jetcans used by innovative players. It stuck ever since, and CCP have accepted it as 'smart thinking' on the players' side.
However, the jetcans were initially intended as cans for throwing stuff away and CCP have kept that reasoning so they wouldn't have worry about petitions (omg he stole my ore) and the like.
In retail it became a problem, in that people are unwilling to accept the risk that comes with a jettisoned can. Hence, CCP introduced the secure containers.
In Shiva/Exodus, taking ore or anything else from someone can will mean the stuff you took gets contraband flagged. Perhaps Concord will come to smoke you, fine you, or perhaps it just alows you to be shot by the person whose stuff you took. I'm hoping for the latter. People depend too much on NPC protection anyway  .
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: DeFood
Wait. How can the devs possibly claim they never intended jetcan mining? seriously? I mean, you really have to be a bit dim to give players ships with small cargo holds, and easy to launch large jetcans and expect said players to not put ore in the jetcans? What WERE they intending? that we mine in some twisted "launch. Mine for 60 seconds. dock. launch. Mine for 60 seconds. Dock???" Thats roughly akin to giving a criminal a gun, then acting suprised when he shoots someone with it.
That's how it was in Beta. Back before there were industrials.
When Industrials were released (rare as they were), people found out that using them to gather up mined minerals was faster then mine -> dock -> mine -> repeat.
It wasn't intended by CCP, is was a nifty side-effect of those jetcans used by innovative players. It stuck ever since, and CCP have accepted it as 'smart thinking' on the players' side.
However, the jetcans were initially intended as cans for throwing stuff away and CCP have kept that reasoning so they wouldn't have worry about petitions (omg he stole my ore) and the like.
In retail it became a problem, in that people are unwilling to accept the risk that comes with a jettisoned can. Hence, CCP introduced the secure containers.
In Shiva/Exodus, taking ore or anything else from someone can will mean the stuff you took gets contraband flagged. Perhaps Concord will come to smoke you, fine you, or perhaps it just alows you to be shot by the person whose stuff you took. I'm hoping for the latter. People depend too much on NPC protection anyway .
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:40:00 -
[81]
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:40:00 -
[82]
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:55:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Rad Seitis
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
It is an MMO, which are generally "work-in-progress" for the simple fact it is in CCP's best interests to keep a lot of people playing for a long time. So they have to constantly add new content to keep old players busy, while making sure new players arent overwhelmed or severely disadvantaged.
If you want to play a game that is not "work-in-progress" go buy a single player game that is at least a year old (damn patches) ;)
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Rad Seitis
DeFood, the funny thing is this; if you posted a topic saying that you loved these features you would have the same forum hounds shooting you down.
Having played this game for well over a year now I have to agree that some parts of it still look very 'work-in-progress'.
It is an MMO, which are generally "work-in-progress" for the simple fact it is in CCP's best interests to keep a lot of people playing for a long time. So they have to constantly add new content to keep old players busy, while making sure new players arent overwhelmed or severely disadvantaged.
If you want to play a game that is not "work-in-progress" go buy a single player game that is at least a year old (damn patches) ;)
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 13:06:00 -
[85]
Ah, a forum troll, I've been expecting you.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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Rad Seitis
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Posted - 2004.11.17 13:06:00 -
[86]
Ah, a forum troll, I've been expecting you.
"Don't try to out-weird me. I get stranger things free with my breakfast cereal."
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.19 14:08:00 -
[87]
Good grief... How could I foirget this. Well, its a problem caused by the - collision logic but:
The #1 unfinished EVE feature is Getting stuck in the station model when launching. How bloody unprofessional is that!
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.19 14:08:00 -
[88]
Good grief... How could I foirget this. Well, its a problem caused by the - collision logic but:
The #1 unfinished EVE feature is Getting stuck in the station model when launching. How bloody unprofessional is that!
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