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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 00:06:00 -
[1]
Do to a dispute with EBANK I am banning the trade of Kwint Industries Bonds.
I have screen shots of all certificate owners. Anyone who transfers a certificate beyond this point risks them being voided and all value lost.
Any investors -aside from EBANK- who wish to be have their bonds bought back will, as always, have their requests honored. At this time I am prepared to buy back all bonds at 101% of face value, aka. 1.01M per certificate. The extra 1% reflects this week's interest.
This Friday's interest payment may be affected but I assure you, all investors that haven't tried to cheat me will be accommodated. If any special needs arise please contact me and we'll work something out.
Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience.
Sincerely,
~Kwint Sommer
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Treelox
Amarr
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.25 04:18:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Do to a dispute with EBANK.....
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
....all investors that haven't tried to cheat me will be accommodated.
Can we infer that EBANK has "tried to cheat" you?
Sig Zone
Signature picture is inappropriate. Please change. ~Weatherman
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Angus McSpork
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.25 04:35:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Treelox
Can we infer that EBANK has "tried to cheat" you?
It basically starts here HERE and then at post 630 and on the next page..
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 04:56:00 -
[4]
In my opinion they have.
The present situation is that EBANK and I hold each other's debt. We both owe interest on that debt. I have been diligently paying them. They have not. Now, given the extenuating circumstances I would take an IOU. Hell, as it is I'm accepting that they are paying me a lower rate than I'm paying them and that they're holding my money ransom. What I'm not willing to accept is them claiming they can ignore the interest they owe their depositors just because it makes recovery easier.
I pointed out the asymmetry of this situation and questioned the validity of them unilaterally declaring they would no longer pay interest, particularly to people who are in fact continuing to pay them.
Up to this point it was just a discussion. Well, not so much a discussion as me talking and them sitting their not saying much of anything but you get the point.
Anyways, I guess Ray figured that it was only a matter of time before I decided to stop paying them so he had better protect EBANK by selling the contested shares off to some unknowing guy and let that poor bastard deal with all this which is a pretty crummy thing to do. At least that's the impression I got from his one-line reply.
Until that precipitous action I had been planning to continue interest payments while we worked something out but Ray forced my hand. Now I have to freeze trading and quite possibly liquidate the whole bond before Ray can drag anyone else into this.
At this point I'm quite tempted to just cut them a check for the difference between my account balance (with interest) and what the shares are worth less some fees for my time and shut the bond down. The only reason I haven't because this is about them screwing all of their customers out of promised interest, not just me. Personally, I couldn't care less about the money and in fact offered to donate the balance of my accounts if they simply do the right thing and acknowledge the full extent of their debt. What I do care about is my perception that they are trying to cheat me, depositors in general and apparently whoever they had lined up for those contested Kwint Industries shares.
This is not okay and I'd rather be labeled a "scammer" than be complicit in them defaulting on their obligations in the name of an easier recovery.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Angus McSpork
Originally by: Treelox
Can we infer that EBANK has "tried to cheat" you?
It basically starts here HERE and then at post 630 and on the next page..
Post 630 is the crucial one to understanding why I'm ****ed enough to scratch 5B in shares off my ledger.
When there's a dispute over assets your response should never be, We sold them. Now what *****!
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Angus McSpork
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:08:00 -
[6]
FWIW, I wish you well and I completely understand where you're coming from.
If they really want to 'save' EBANK they should just shut it down and let it fade into some romanticized tragedy "beyond their control" than their current plan to alienate and annoy everyone while ****ing away what is left of EBANK.
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Taikun
Gallente
20th Legion
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Taikun on 25/12/2009 05:12:53
This is delicious...
Quick question Kwint... why not institute a API requirement? Get the entire eBank BoD full APIs as well or make them default their entire holdings.
What is good for the goose should also be good for the gander dontcha think? 
Taikun
A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation. |
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:33:00 -
[8]
I completely agree and support the action you're taking. You won't be losing any interest from potential future investors, I'll keep an eye out for your next bond.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
In my opinion they have.
The present situation is that EBANK and I hold each other's debt. We both owe interest on that debt.
What you're saying is that you don't want to subtract the isk in your Ebank account from your debt towards Ebank and continue paying interest on the difference.
What ****es you off is the fact that Ebank is not paying interest to the rest of the account holders but you still have to pay interest to Ebank.
Well why didn't you say so from the beginning?
Black Sun Empire |
LooseLips
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:48:00 -
[10]
Why does anyone pay any interest, dividends, or even pay off loans that they owe ebank. They do not believe in doing what is right, why should you. You may get on the list of scams that his ebank, who cares, they should put ebank on that list as well. |
SetrakDark
Caldari
DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.12.25 06:30:00 -
[11]
Ok, I'm a little drunk, but I think I can bang out something useful here.
You're right. You and EBank have debts with one another, and EBank has reneged on their end while you have not. You are fully justified in exchanging debt in your favor.
You're right. If EBank is holding depositors' funds, then it should be recording interest owed. Furthermore, if this is too great a burden, then they should close.
However, EBank is not closing. Your stand, however correct and justified, is just more fuel to the fire that is the ongoing EBank scandal. This scandal hurts the entire investment community by poisoning the forum for our interactions.
If you believe that you can break EBank on this point or contribute significantly to its closing, then please continue your stand.
In my mind, however, this issue represents yet another step back in the process of moving beyond this scandal. It is more fodder for the trolls who would just as happily see you fall as EBank has. It is more heated controversy that harms all efforts to build bigger and better things here.
The unfortunate reality is that EBank still wields influence and power. If you cannot break this power through confrontation, then you must bend it through compromise.
I doubt anyone would call you a scammer for getting your money out of EBank. However, I believe your stand on interest payments will yield nothing but more ill will and alienation between the community and EBank.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 06:37:00 -
[12]
Kwint, you seem to confuse me with someone that cares what you do. It makes no difference in my life if you in turn default on EBANK's loan to you, you won't be defrauding myself or the board but rather the bank's account holders.
Paint it any other way you want with moral overtones if it makes you feel better.
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.12.25 07:23:00 -
[13]
Ray, he took the loan from E-Bank, not a number of random people. You are responsible for that ISK, not him. The fact that you don't care if he defaults and your general attitude towards anyone and anything only shows the direction the bank is going. The fact that you refused to talk and make a deal to someone as respected as Kwint Sommer is funny, the lack of flexibility of a dying bank is quite stupid. You will fail.
I would like to congratulate Kwint on his decision, I wish I could do anything to help him, people that step up and take a (legitimate) stand against E-Bank should be supported.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 07:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
stand against E-Bank
Yeah, death to the imperialist swine.
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.12.25 07:35:00 -
[15]
Hey, if saying that Kwint is "stealing" from E-Bank customers makes you feel better, it's cool too.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 07:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
Hey, if saying that Kwint is "stealing" from E-Bank customers makes you feel better, it's cool too.
He's certainly not stealing from me.
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.12.25 07:48:00 -
[17]
One day you'll get it right.
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species2143
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
Hey, if saying that Kwint is "stealing" from E-Bank customers makes you feel better, it's cool too.
He's certainly not stealing from me.
It's hardly stealing when it's his own money that he getting trough this move. This situation was very predictable to anyone with common sense, and most likely won't be an isolated case. Your choice of terminology is very interesting given the fact that EBank is confiscating funds from those customers that don't jump trough the loops you have set.
You have already proven you don't care what he does nor any other customer, there's no need to highlight it any further. It's obvious your only interest is saving a dying bank cost it what it may. Who cares about those idiots that gave you money...
There has not been a single banking institution ever known to recover from a insolvency situation simply by blocking all assets and freezing interest, if anything at all you desperatly need the little liquidity you still have to be at work. The only way EBank will ever recover from this situation is get the customers involved emotionally and prectically. You on the other hand are acchieving the very opposite with comes close to a death sentance because your making a Bank that nobody will ever trust in the future.
I have plenty of ideas that could greatly improve the situation EBank is in, yet the damage you guys are currently doing with you PR is getting pretty close to being beyond the point of no return.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
One day you'll get it right.
I very much doubt it.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
One day you'll get it right.
I very much doubt it.
haha, ray is such a douche.
-L
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: species2143
I have plenty of ideas that could greatly improve the situation EBank is in
http://forums.eve-bank.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2108
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Scam Alert
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Scam Alert on 25/12/2009 08:14:55
Originally by: SetrakDark
just more fuel to the fire that is the ongoing EBank scandal.
You are dead wrong.
This is no longer a EBank scam. EBank is over and there is a new scam going on and it now needs to be called what it is.
It is now a Ray McCormack scam.
Want proof?
Originally by: Ray McCormack
It makes no difference in my life if you in turn default on EBANK's loan to you, you won't be defrauding myself or the board but rather the bank's account holders.
In other words.. Ray is saying he has all the money anyway and couldn't care less about what anyone says... nobody is getting any of it back unless Ray FEELS like giving any of it back.
A scam is a scam. Period.... and Ray McCormack is now running the biggest as it is increasingly clear he has no intention of ever releasing any of it to anyone except to his close friends.
Taikun
P.S. And yes... I have offically used my Scam Alert alt to warn all about Ray
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flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:33:00 -
[23]
Is this response from ray really surprising anyone?
I'm more amazed it is then the response itself tbh.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
What I'm not willing to accept is them claiming they can ignore the interest they owe their depositors just because it makes recovery easier.
So you rather want the recovery to take 20 years, rather than the projected 12 years(I got this number from a random post somewhere, who speculated that it would take that long).
Now if everybody were to start trying to screw over EBANK and it's thousands of customers, that would be funny. It would be ironic that the community would become the reason that EBANK had its hands tied in regards to recovering.
Btw Kwint, have you been able to confirm wheter or not the EBANK certificates were sold? I'd be interested in knowing that, or if you got trolled by Ray(I have a feeling this is more likely, never take Ray literally)
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Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:50:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 25/12/2009 08:53:15
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
One day you'll get it right.
I very much doubt it.
Judging by his recent reply to scheduling statements he made, (statements, not promises....gasp, statements) always add a month to whatever has been 'stated'.
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Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.25 08:54:00 -
[26]
No LVV,
Some people simply are not accepting anymore the way ebank has been screwing us over for months already, without getting any clarity on duration, nor any publisized plans for the recovery of the bank that do not involve selective scamming (be honest, that is exactly what writong off the inactive accounts is).
ebank does not have a deficit, it is bankrupt, and it has been for months. They just refuse to admit it and there is no legislation nor a game mechanic to force them to admit it.
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Solovej
Amarr
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.25 09:07:00 -
[27]
Dear dudes,
the majority of the eve community is on to a hawt online pew pew game yet you people in here seem to be still acting out your dayjobs... What gives?
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flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.25 09:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Leneerra
No LVV,
Some people simply are not accepting anymore the way ebank has been screwing us over for months already, without getting any clarity on duration, nor any publisized plans for the recovery of the bank that do not involve selective scamming (be honest, that is exactly what writong off the inactive accounts is).
ebank does not have a deficit, it is bankrupt, and it has been for months. They just refuse to admit it and there is no legislation nor a game mechanic to force them to admit it.
Verry easy basically.Both old and new ebank staff have one thing alike:blame it on the customers.
It's understandable though , get's a lot of pressure off of your mind.
Like a guy who ****s a woman and then tells himself she
wanted it.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.12.25 09:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Scam Alert
Originally by: Ray McCormack
It makes no difference in my life if you in turn default on EBANK's loan to you, you won't be defrauding myself or the board but rather the bank's account holders.
In other words.. Ray is saying he has all the money anyway and couldn't care less about what anyone says... nobody is getting any of it back unless Ray FEELS like giving any of it back.
Actually it looks like Ray is saying that defaulting on a loan isn't a viable way to strike at him or any EBANK staff personally, and instead hurts the account holders. To which I can only respond, lol uncollateralized loans.
I think you're getting Ray confused with YGR. See, YGR follows the whole "if I don't like you I don't feel obligated to honor any agreements with you" philosophy, and I very much doubt that I'll ever see even 20-30% of my 500m investment back from him. Hilariously, Cosmoray and various other people who are quick to eviscerate Ray and other EBANK staff have actually invested in YGR's new offering, despite acknowledging that he is a scammer. But that's neither here nor there.
Now let's look at Ray. Ray's style is more along the lines of "troll the hell out of the serious-business-internet-spaceships-money crowd while actually doing work behind the scenes." Granted, a little more clarity on what the heck is going on 'behind the scenes' would be nice. But unlike YGR, Ray isn't a scammer. If he wanted to scam, he has had ample opportunity to do so already, whether with BMBE, AATP, or another one of the projects that he's formerly been or currently is at the helm of.
Eventually, at some point in the future, the option to withdraw part or all of an account's balance will become available from EBANK. That is something I'm fairly certain of. Will interest be paid retroactively? Probably not. Is that right? No, but getting some or all of your principle back (eventually) is a damn sight better than not getting anything back at all ever.
I'm not defending Ray's posting style or signaling approval of anything he's posted, nor am I taking sides on current EBANK policy. I'm merely pointing out that actions in his case speak far louder than words. And yes, I'm aware that I just swallowed a troll's bait hook, line, and sinker.
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Piezochem
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Posted - 2009.12.25 09:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Btw Kwint, have you been able to confirm wheter or not the EBANK certificates were sold? I'd be interested in knowing that, or if you got trolled by Ray(I have a feeling this is more likely, never take Ray literally)
I have no interest in taking sides but if Ray was indeed trolling Kwint then I have to question what good would come from doing that?
Therefore, why do it in the first instance? 
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