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Low-sec gate camp: Impossible to escape?

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Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:06:00 - [1] I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp). Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.) Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?)
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:08:00 - [2] Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. So you need to align and cloak in one swift motion basically, to give them no time to click on you. A little bad luck and latency will get you killed though... But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:13:00 - [3] You have to instantly cloak before someone targets you. Triple boosted HICs will catch almost anything.
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:16:00 - [4] Edited by: Milana Arkani on 01/01/2010 23:19:57 Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo. Incidentally, is there any documentation that details that "feature"? (I think not.) So, in summary: There is no practical way to escape a low-sec gate camp. Great...
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo. Incidentally, is there any documentation that details that "feature"? (I think not.) So, in summary: There is no practical way to escape a zero-sec gate camp. Great... Practice clicking align to on a celestial and hitting the F key for your cloak at very nearly the same time. As the previous poster said, a 0 lock hic will still catch you, but aside from that, you should be able to cloak before they can start targeting you once you get that sequence down. If you're not using your cloak's hot key, though, you will get caught every time. Clicking's too slow in this case. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:21:00 - [6] This is a bit of a pathetic whine tbh. You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec. Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate. I'd help you more but your attitude stinks. ~
Mrs Thaiberian	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:25:00 - [7] Well, they were 10 you just one.. why should you have any chance of scape? If they were 10 and you were 8-12.. then sure you would have got more chances. This is just pure logic.. but I agree with you that gate camping sucks.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Milana Arkani Edited by: Milana Arkani on 01/01/2010 23:19:57 Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo. Incidentally, is there any documentation that details that "feature"? (I think not.) So, in summary: There is no practical way to escape a low-sec gate camp. Great... Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Lady Spank This is a bit of a pathetic whine tbh. You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec. Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate. I'd help you more but your attitude stinks. Shut up, you idiot troll. (I swear, you idiot trolls show up on every thread.) I think YOU are the one who needs to do some research, as your method will NOT work. Wait out the session change timer and MWD back to gate??? Sorry, that is a guaranteed fail. Try again, fool.
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. That was a bug that lasted for about 24 hours 2 years ago. It's easy to avoid most lowsec gatecamps because most of those who man them are. A. Lazy B. Stupid C. Lazy and stupid WCS will not save you. Fit for speed/agility in your lows, fit a mwd and an improved cloak (note: this is important). Drag your MWD to your F1 key and your cloak to your F2 key. Upon jumping into a camp DON'T PANIC. You have 60 seconds before you decloak automatically. Look at where you are in relation to the gate and your outbound gate. If the gate you are on is roughly in line with the outbound then pick a celestial that isn't. If not then select the outbound and hover your mouse over the 'align' button on your overview. Hit align. As soon as you decloak hit F1 and F2. Hover your mouse over the 'warp to' button. Watch your MWD tick over... once the cycle is complete and it turns off immeadiately hit F2 to decloak. Hit warp. Smack local. Using this method you should be able to get all but the fattest ships (orcas) through most gatecamps unless they have a couple of switched on T2 cruisers with MWDs on the camp.

Namira Sable	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Lady Spank This is a bit of a pathetic whine tbh. You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec. Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate. I'd help you more but your attitude stinks. Shut up, you idiot troll. (I swear, you idiot trolls show up on every thread.) I think YOU are the one who needs to do some research, as your method will NOT work. Wait out the session change timer and MWD back to gate??? Sorry, that is a guaranteed fail. Try again, fool. I support this reply 100%
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Taedrin Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp. The excerpt from my log (original post above) demonstrates why that is not true. Btw: I think the people who say that one has about a second (if that) to escape are correct. Add in the latency factor, and I think one has virtually zero chance to escape under those circumstances.
Jebidus Skari	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. That was a bug that lasted for about 24 hours 2 years ago. It's easy to avoid most lowsec gatecamps because most of those who man them are. A. Lazy B. Stupid C. Lazy and stupid WCS will not save you. Fit for speed/agility in your lows, fit a mwd and an improved cloak (note: this is important). Drag your MWD to your F1 key and your cloak to your F2 key. Upon jumping into a camp DON'T PANIC. You have 60 seconds before you decloak automatically. Look at where you are in relation to the gate and your outbound gate. If the gate you are on is roughly in line with the outbound then pick a celestial that isn't. If not then select the outbound and hover your mouse over the 'align' button on your overview. Hit align. As soon as you decloak hit F1 and F2. Hover your mouse over the 'warp to' button. Watch your MWD tick over... once the cycle is complete and it turns off immeadiately hit F2 to decloak. Hit warp. Smack local. Using this method you should be able to get all but the fattest ships (orcas) through most gatecamps unless they have a couple of switched on T2 cruisers with MWDs on the camp. nice to see someone giving some proper advise! OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect. Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you. So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Lady Spank This is a bit of a pathetic whine tbh. You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec. Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate. I'd help you more but your attitude stinks. Shut up, you idiot troll. (I swear, you idiot trolls show up on every thread.) I think YOU are the one who needs to do some research, as your method will NOT work. Wait out the session change timer and MWD back to gate??? Sorry, that is a guaranteed fail. Try again, fool. ~
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:55:00 - [15] Funny thing is, the op is a 2006 character... ebay much? Originally by: a51 duke1406 The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
ratamnimb	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Milana Arkani I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp). Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.) Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?) Hahahaha.
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Jebidus Skari nice to see someone giving some proper advise! OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect. Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you. So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in. By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships. Or, fly an alt in to get killed first. Again, so idiotic... Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not. Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo.
Babel Boom and Bust Economics Ltd. Naraka.	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:05:00 - [18] You could mail and ask one of the 6 guys that popped you. I'd place my money on SeBo/Rem-SeBo setup on the Devoter, or one of the Rapiers. . "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. 44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak.
d3vo The Missionaries	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Milana Arkani Edited by: Milana Arkani on 01/01/2010 23:19:57 Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo. /agreed Doesn't make sense. The process of "locking a target" shouldn't be considered the same when you've already "locked the target".

Jebidus Skari	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Jebidus Skari nice to see someone giving some proper advise! OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect. Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you. So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in. By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships. Or, fly an alt in to get killed first. Again, so idiotic... Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not. Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo. there is no point getting upset about it..thats low sec..and yes you should check the system first before you jump in really only some idiot wouldnt..its LOW SEC its hostile what you think you should be able to jump in and go on your merry way! stay in high sec if you want that! TBH in any space if theres a gate camp and your NOT in a small fast ship your dead simple..its like warp bubbles in 0.0..i mean a gate camp and you cant warp damn..what next... seriously either use your brain and use caution or dont bother...
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Jebidus Skari nice to see someone giving some proper advise! OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect. Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you. So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in. By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships. Or, fly an alt in to get killed first. Again, so idiotic... Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not. Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo. It's escapable if your not an moran. Read up to my earlier post. Or I suspect you are probably trolling if you are unwilling to take any of the advice that has been offered here. Lowsec/0.0 require a different skillset to survive in as opposed to Highsec. Gatecamps of all varieties are easy to avoid in most ships with a bit of knowhow.
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:18:00 - [23] Originally by: chatgris Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. 44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak. I clicked the full speed icon and then immediately clicked the cloak button. Of course, there is also some latency. (Btw: The log time is also probably truncated to the nearest second. So, it is not necessarily 3 full seconds.)
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:20:00 - [24] Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:23:44 bah. Ninja'd by eons. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if it was 2.01 or 3.99 seconds between the two – a properly set-up tackler should have your battlecruiser locked in, oh, 0.5 seconds or so… ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. So you need to align and cloak in one swift motion basically, to give them no time to click on you. A little bad luck and latency will get you killed though... Unless this a new thing implemented while I've been away from the game, I am 100% sure that it is not the case. What I thing probably happened here is the op waited for the ship to visually fully decloak on his screen before trying to turn on cloaking. That means he was uncloaked and targetable for several seconds before attempting to cloak. That's enough time to get locked. You have to doubleclick to start moving, and then hit the cloak right away. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:29:00 - [26] Since you continue to show how arrogant and disrespectful you are, I demand 500m or a wardec goes live in about 48 hours. Then you can whine about high sec too ~
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:21:12 bah. Ninja'd by eons. Seriously: There was no time to escape. A lot of you don't seem to understand that mouse clicks/button presses are not necessarily instantaneously recognized/transmitted in EVE. Btw: Ironically, I switched to EVE a while ago to get away from games where muscle twitch/low-latency rules. So, please no more silly comments that neglect all considerations of latency.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:33:00 - [28] Was about to reply but then saw Lark's, which is similar to what I wanted to type. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Tippia Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if it was 2.01 or 3.99 seconds between the two û a properly set-up tackler should have your battlecruiser locked in, oh, 0.5 seconds or soà Exactly! Precisely the point.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Milana Arkani Seriously: There was no time to escape. Seriously: yes there was, but you would have had to be a lot quicker about it than you were, and the cloak and WCSes alone wouldn't have saved you. People are not neglecting latency – in fact, I'd guess that just about everyone who's offering an opinion on those three seconds are people who've been in the exact same situation you were in and who've gotten away with it… …well, they've gotten away with the cloaking bit, at least – not necessarily with getting away, as such. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Gilishio	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:21:12 bah. Ninja'd by eons. Seriously: There was no time to escape. A lot of you don't seem to understand that mouse clicks/button presses are not necessarily instantaneously recognized/transmitted in EVE. Btw: Ironically, I switched to EVE a while ago to get away from games where muscle twitch/low-latency rules. So, please no more silly comments that neglect all considerations of latency. Ok, fine. You have been completely ignoring everyone's posts with actual information and reasons on why it happened so lets see if this works. You're right!!!11 Anything besides a 25 man fleet fitted for war, or a inertia stabbed/WCS covert ops ship will get locked and blown up in less then a second in any gate camp in low sec ever. Never go into low-sec ever again with anything but a cov ops or a huge fleet. From your stubborn prospective, problem solved. Actually, just never go into low-sec again in general. Problem solved without even having to press a button and worry about latency! See?! I can do it too!
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Lady Spank This is a bit of a pathetic whine tbh. You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec. Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate. I'd help you more but your attitude stinks. Shut up, you idiot troll. (I swear, you idiot trolls show up on every thread.) I think YOU are the one who needs to do some research, as your method will NOT work. Wait out the session change timer and MWD back to gate??? Sorry, that is a guaranteed fail. Try again, fool. I escaped a 6 man camp by MWD'ing back to the gate in my Drake. It won't work all the time, but it's better than fitting cloaks and WCS on your PvP ship.
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Gilishio Anything besides a 25 man fleet fitted for war, or a inertia stabbed/WCS covert ops ship will get locked and blown up in less then a second in any gate camp in low sec. I'm glad you're finally coming around to the practical reality of the situation.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Marko Riva Was about to reply but then saw Lark's, which is similar to what I wanted to type. I typed my post above before noticing that. Yeah, Larkonis gave a perfect description of the proper maneuver in that situation. There's not much not add. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Gilishio	Posted - 2010.01.02 00:58:00 - [35] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Gilishio Anything besides a 25 man fleet fitted for war, or a inertia stabbed/WCS covert ops ship will get locked and blown up in less then a second in any gate camp in low sec. I'm glad you're finally coming around to the practical reality of the situation. Yup yup! now get out there and waste a buncha skill points for cov ops to get by an easy camp. Or better yet!! waste 24 more peoples time to get that big fleet together. Make sure you explain to them "Guys, there is no messing around, this is a srs bsns low sec gate camp we got here, be ready!!" See you in your pod
Zairo Kul	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:03:00 - [36] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Taedrin Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp. The excerpt from my log (original post above) demonstrates why that is not true. Btw: I think the people who say that one has about a second (if that) to escape are correct. Add in the latency factor, and I think one has virtually zero chance to escape under those circumstances. The excerpt from your log is idiotic. It took you a full three seconds to hit the cloak button after starting to move? Of course you got locked. And you are dead wrong, you can cloak while people are beginning to target you. Your confusion stems from the fact that some ships lock so fast, it takes about half a second after being targeted for the fact that you're being targeted to show up on your UI. Stealth bomber pilots take advantage of this fact all the time, cloaking while larger ships are in the process of targeting them in order to break all the potential locks. I would know... I fly stealth bombers myself sometimes.
Sorted Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:12:00 - [37] bloody pirates, s****of eve.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:13:00 - [38] nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!! (o)
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Zairo Kul Blah blah blah... Suggestion: Learn to read before you comment.
Pesets The Hunt Club	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Milana Arkani I clicked the full speed icon and then immediately clicked the cloak button. You don't click the cloak button. You PRESS it. Every module in the top row can be activated with an F# key (i.e. F1, F2, etc). You can also move those icons around, to put non-highslot modules into the top row. Also, clicking "full speed" by itself is pretty meaningless in most cases, you usually want to either align to a celestial or approach the gate. You should press the F-key as soon as you click "align". I tap it a couple of times cause if you tap it too early it sometimes tells you you're still cloaked - but you gotta practice the timing, because if you tap it an extra time too late it will disengage and then you can't reactivate it for several seconds. And it's been like that since forever, so apparently it is the way it's meant to be played. And yes, two seconds to lock a battlecruiser is plenty of time, even for non-specialized ship. Originally by: Milana Arkani A lot of you don't seem to understand that mouse clicks/button presses are not necessarily instantaneously recognized/transmitted in EVE. What matters is making sure that your commands follow each other immediately. Then that's the way they will reach the server. And you should realize it's the same for the other side (when they see you decloak, chances are you're already cloaked on the server if you're doing it right - and it takes some time for their lock commands to reach the server). Sadly, at present level of technology you can't really escape latency issues in online games. Of course as Tippia said, cloaking by itself doesn't help a whole lot, since someone can still burn out towards you and decloak you.

Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Le Skunk nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!! Ha ha ha! This is the guy/corp who killed me.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Le Skunk nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!! Ha ha ha! This is the guy/corp who killed me. I wish you good luck in future SKUNK (o)
Kessiaan Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:26:00 - [43] 3 seconds is way to slow. You can make up any excuse you want, you're still to slow.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:27:00 - [44] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Le Skunk nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!! Ha ha ha! This is the guy/corp who killed me. 3 years ago he would have been killing you in high sec instead. Be happy. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:32:00 - [45] Originally by: Pesets What matters is making sure that your commands follow each other immediately. Then that's the way they will reach the server. And you should realize it's the same for the other side (when they see you decloak, chances are you're already cloaked on the server if you're doing it right - and it takes some time for their lock commands to reach the server). Sadly, at present level of technology you can't really escape latency issues in online games. (Etc.) Thanks. Good comments by you and a few others. (I like all of the practical/realistic comments, rather than incorrect kneejerk flames.)
dtyk	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:34:00 - [46] Originally by: Milana Arkani I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp). Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.) Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?) Even accounting for latency, you WERE simply too slow. An interceptor and a lot of other things, especially if remote boosted, wouldn't have trouble locking a BC in a second. A BC is a large ship when compared to a frigate, and inties are really fast lockers anyway. You should have hit your cloak before they got their mouse over your name. And of course burning back to the gate would have worked if you had had enough tank to survive for the time it takes to MWD to a gate (shouldn't be more than 10 seconds tops for a BC). And no, low-sec isn't safe. But escaping gate camps in low sec is relatively easy especially if you've had any practice on it, since there's no bubbles waiting on the other side if it's low sec. And escaping even bubbled camps is very much possible.
Baitin	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:36:00 - [47] Edited by: Baitin on 02/01/2010 01:36:20 Eve runs in 1 second "ticks" generally. There is no way an attacker can target a cloaker before cloaking if the cloaker aligns and cloaks in rapid succession since both commands will be executed by the server in the same "tick". On top of that the attacker will be the one contending with latency not the cloaker. Chalk this up to a learning experience. You where way to slow to cloak thats what got you killed. You can without fail hit align and and hit cloak and get both executed by the server in the same tick. the attacker will see you for a short while on his overview but there is not any actual time to start targeting before the target is cloaked. This is not about twitch, its just a matter of hovering you mouse over the align button and you finger over the cloak button, click mouse, click cloak. Don't look at your ship and wait for it to decloak Or the advanced version, hit align, hit mwd, hit cloak. You might still die, if the gatecamp is halfway competent. But thats pvp for you. Experiment in high sec if your still unsure how it works.
db T M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:49:00 - [48] Edited by: db T on 02/01/2010 01:49:29 ITT: People who never played EVE. Lowsec is still easy as hell to get through. The only real "problem" I've run into is smartbombing battleships vs light ships, and I don't have a bookmark above the gate. Even then it's not impossible, it just takes a while to drain your cap. No, lowsec gatecamps are by no means impossible to escape if you have a cloak and mwd. If you want to know how, read and LadySpanks reply and stop being a **ing * to people explaining how you fail, you insecure *.
Swiftgaze Elysium Holdings Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Hit align. As soon as you decloak hit F1 and F2. Hover your mouse over the 'warp to' button. Watch your MWD tick over... once the cycle is complete and it turns off immeadiately hit F2 to decloak. Hit warp. Smack local. Your post is nice and all, but "hit warp" means hovering through a ridiculously annoying menu which takes about 2 seconds on its own. I really wish there was a "warp button" that would warp you to a marked object. :(
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:53:00 - [50] Edited by: Lork Niffle on 02/01/2010 01:55:15 Whats the issue with the warp menu. You have 30 seconds after going through ghte gate to get your senses. You then taking your time find an object you want and hit align. All while doing this you can have your hands over the F1 and F2 key (assuming they are your MWD and cloak). Then assuming you can press both a split second after hitting align (all this is still while you are auto-cloaked), you are in the home straight. Wait for MWD to tick over and warp to the object. Can't be easier. ------------------------------------- The system issues man.

Clair Bear Ursine Research and Production	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:54:00 - [51] There is an easier, foolproof way to escape lowsec gatecamps. And like most things in eve it requires metagaming (read: more than one account). Send in an untrained alt in a rookie ship. If the coast is clear, go. If not, it's a judgement call. If you think the p-rats will be dumb enough to blindly pounce on the rookie alt letting you get through, go. Most of the time I'll just keep warping the rookie alt to get podded until they get bored of gate gun aggro and leave, then continue on my journey. If everyone did this we'd have far fewer lowsec gatecamps. And oh yeah, WCS have been worthless ever since hictors. Fit istabs instead. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. I would suggest not taking bio breaks between clicking move and cloak.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Milana Arkani (I like all of the practical/realistic comments, rather than incorrect kneejerk flames.) The funny thing is, the only incorrect statements in the thread are the ones that support the posits made in the OP, whereas the most spot-on, correct statements are probably the ones you think of as flames. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Pesets The Hunt Club	Posted - 2010.01.02 01:59:00 - [54] Originally by: Swiftgaze I really wish there was a "warp button" that would warp you to a marked object. :( Last i checked, the "warp to" button was literally right next to "align to" button. They're both on "selected item" window. Relying on tutorial recommendations will get you killed. Unless you're trolling, in which case nevermind.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:03:00 - [55] Originally by: chatgris Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. 44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak. To highlight exactly how long 3 seconds is, an unskilled, unfitted taranis can target an average battlecruiser in 1.1 seconds (according to EFT). A single scripted sensor booster brings it down to .6 seconds. A scripted remote sensor booster brings it down to .5 seconds. When trying to escape a gate camp, you want to activate your cloak an instant after you tell your ship to align - don't wait for your ship to decloak. The idea is to get the client to send the signal to cloak your ship before the server even notifies the gate camp that you ship has decloaked in front of them. Lag is on YOUR side here, as you don't have to wait for a response from the server before attempting to cloak your ship. So long as you do something to drop the gate cloak before activating your cloak, you should be fine. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:12:00 - [56] This thread is redundant. Everyone knows im the second best tackler in the game SKUNK (o)
Night Epoch Distant Light Galactic Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:20:00 - [57] Not to beat a dead horse, but this: [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. is a major part of your problem. 3 seconds is an absolute eternity in PVP. You need to cloak the very instant you start aligning (thereby dropping your gate cloak). And to echo Taedrin above me, lag works to YOUR advantage when you jump into a gate camp.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Le Skunk This thread is redundant. Gave me someone to wardec at least. How long did his dual tank last? ~
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:21:00 - [59] Originally by: Le Skunk This thread is redundant. Everyone knows im the second best tackler in the game SKUNK Probably true! If I read one more comment about how "slow" I am, I'm going to ask you to please set up a new gate camp, so all these "elite clickers" can test their mad gate camp escape skillz. Btw: Good job, man.
Baitin	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:29:00 - [60] Edited by: Baitin on 02/01/2010 02:31:32 Dude we're not actually trolling you, you where to slow, some of us have escaped countless gatecamps by align+mwd+cloak, lot of them in zero sec where there's actually bubbles to prevent you from warping and a LOT more then 10 people camping the gates. Fact is, if you do it right, NO ONE can target you before cloaking it JUST CAN'T BE DONE. you might get decloaked and popped afterwards though. well actualy, if you're stupidly unlucky you will port in within 2 kilometers of another ship and then you can't actually cloak. But thats extremely rare.

Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:35:00 - [61] I miss warp to 15 and the old sniper gatecamps myself
Spoon Thumb Mamaleek	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:40:00 - [62] It's worth pointing out that you don't get many inties in low sec camping gates due to their vulnerability to gate guns For sure a well set up 0.0 gate camp will have inty and fast ship pilots who know what they're doing in regard to decloaking people, but those same pilots tend to want to get on killmails rather than just spend all day waiting for someone with a cloak to jump in so they can click approach. I'd put myself in the camp that says "use a scout". Doesn't even have to be on a different account. Could even be a friend / corpmate in a fast warping ship or worthless noob ship. I wouldn't try and run back to gate in a ferox. Even mwd blaster setup ferox is going to have a hard time making it if it gets webbed. But for other ships, sure Also some camps I've been in have increasingly started to use super-fast locking ships, the sort that have a chance at locking during the fraction second between jump-cloak and the ship's cloak. Especially in 0.0 where massive radius region gates otherwise force you to need multiple dictors and a heap of inties to catch FOTM stealth bombers Sig is in English. Not my fault if mods can't make out stylized font
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:50:00 - [63] Low sec gate camps is the main reason I dont bother with low-sec. They are virtually impossible to escape. Not to mention warp bubbles planted right at the gate itself. If CCP wants people to move into low-sec, they will have to address these two issues. I like a fight as long as it's fair, but there is nothing fair about low-sec gate camps. ___________________________________________________ Idea: Train 3 alts at the same time solution.
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:51:00 - [64] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Low sec gate camps is the main reason I dont bother with low-sec. They are virtually impossible to escape. Not to mention warp bubbles planted right at the gate itself. If CCP wants people to move into low-sec, they will have to address these two issues. I like a fight as long as it's fair, but there is nothing fair about low-sec gate camps. You is trolling.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:53:00 - [65] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr warp bubbles planted right at the gate itself. No such thing in low sec. Only in 0.0. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Low sec gate camps is the main reason I dont bother with low-sec. They are virtually impossible to escape. Not to mention warp bubbles planted right at the gate itself. If CCP wants people to move into low-sec, they will have to address these two issues. I like a fight as long as it's fair, but there is nothing fair about low-sec gate camps. Would you like a second try or should I just agree with Larkonis on this one? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Trader20	Posted - 2010.01.02 02:55:00 - [67] lol, u got owned
Burnharder	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:03:00 - [68] imho the best way to escape any gate camp is not to get into one in the first place (scout with an alt). I've had some funny escapes, including slow-boating to align in an Iteron V with prototype cloak while a crow zig-zagged to try find me ;). If you're a slow ship you may be chased even if you do escape, which means you've got to go through the whole process again at the next gate. So if it's a regular route, make 1/2 way bookmarks and warp to those instead of the gate, then cloak and/or log ;).
vr0p Gallente DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:08:00 - [69] Originally by: "Milana Arkani" Wait out the session change timer and MWD back to gate??? Sorry, that is a guaranteed fail. Try again, fool. This is actually often the best option if you are in non-covert ship. The other day we had something like 5 webs on a Deimos as he uncloaked, but with his initial momentum from MWD he made it back to gate just in time. I was able to do it in a Tempest with a 15ish member gatecamp a few weeks back also, with the heavier mass, the momentum is greater so you don't slow down as quickly from the webs. So MWD back to gate is an option for anybody with a MWD really.
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:20:00 - [70] Originally by: vr0p This is actually often the best option if you are in non-covert ship. The other day we had something like 5 webs on a Deimos as he uncloaked, but with his initial momentum from MWD he made it back to gate just in time. I was able to do it in a Tempest with a 15ish member gatecamp a few weeks back also, with the heavier mass, the momentum is greater so you don't slow down as quickly from the webs. So MWD back to gate is an option for anybody with a MWD really. Ha ha... Nice idea, but... As soon as they (insta-)locked me, they used (one or more) 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction. So I literally went from full cap to zero cap within seconds. So, you can probably forget about "MWD back to gate", unless you are dealing with relatively weak gate campers. It certainly wouldn't work with these guys (Le Skunk, et al.).

Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:26:00 - [71] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: vr0p This is actually often the best option if you are in non-covert ship. The other day we had something like 5 webs on a Deimos as he uncloaked, but with his initial momentum from MWD he made it back to gate just in time. I was able to do it in a Tempest with a 15ish member gatecamp a few weeks back also, with the heavier mass, the momentum is greater so you don't slow down as quickly from the webs. So MWD back to gate is an option for anybody with a MWD really. Ha ha... Nice idea, but... As soon as they (insta-)locked me, they used (one or more) 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction. So I literally went from full cap to zero cap within seconds. So, you can probably forget about "MWD back to gate", unless you are dealing with relatively weak gate campers. It certainly wouldn't work with these guys (Le Skunk, et al.). Doesn't matter. By the time you get to a second cycle of the mwd you'd be webbed anyway. It's the momemtum from that first pulse of the mwd that will get you there (on many ships, but not all), and there's no way they can prevent you from that. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:28:00 - [72] Your interpretation of 'insta' is inconsistent, you forgot to include your lag theories in calling their actions. Also, you would only ever expect to get 1 cycle of the mwd off in this case and you can get that off, even setting the mwd to overheat, before they even lock you. But then no one here knows what they are doing while you obviously do, and i'm just trolling ~
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:31:00 - [73] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 02/01/2010 03:32:06 Originally by: Milana Arkani Fail It all boils down to you not practicing the skills at hand. Cloak + MWD works extremely well if you do it right - which you sure as crap have not, given that it took 3 seconds for a cloak attempt to begin - and MWDing back works as well. You HAVE to be instant with the cloak. We know you're just whining because of that delay. Even if you're trying to run a camp with a covops or blockade runner (well, a 0.0 bubblecamp anyways), you need to MWD+cloak properly to ensure you aren't decloaked before you get out of the bubble. You put your cloak in F1 and your MWD in F2 - not hard. Heck, you can even assign an overload shortcut to get an even better speed boost. Take your ship, go somewhere safe, and practice doing this. Don't whine for CCP to fix your own failures - learn and overcome. Method of MWDing to gate: 1) Don't Panic! You have 60 seconds to work with! 2) Set your autopilot destination to the system you just came from 3) Wait for your session change to expire (you can toggle a little indicator in the upper-left corner in Esc > General Settings) 4) Hit approach, overload and activate your MWD, and turn on the autopilot - use keyboard shortcuts liberally, as your MWD needs to go on as soon as your gatecloak expires. 5) If it worked, you'll jump through as soon as you hit 2500 m (hence the autopilot). If not, c'est la vie. It works more often than not, though.
Troll Bridgington Bronze Legion	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:32:00 - [74] Best thread ever
Clair Bear Ursine Research and Production	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:33:00 - [75] Originally by: Milana Arkani So, you can probably forget about "MWD back to gate", unless you are dealing with relatively weak gate campers. It certainly wouldn't work with these guys (Le Skunk, et al.). How about looking at the map, specifically number of pilots in space in the last 30 minutes if you refuse to use a scout alt? A gatecamp big enough to sensor boost a BS into insta-locking (assuming that's even practical [and a BS is what fits large neuts]) is going to register on the map. Jumping into lowsec with a known large population nearby is asking for a trip back in your pod. Seriously, eve is first and foremost a blobbing game. A blob is, and should be >>>>>>>>>> single pilot. Learn Blob Detection I (initially I typed that as Bob Detection), and it will serve you well. The first rule of winning at P&P&P&P&P&P&P&P&P&P&P&P ... &P&P&P&PvP is not doing any in the first place. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Lady Spank and i'm just trolling Yes, you are. I highly doubt that anybody could mwd out of their gate camp. But nice try.
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:42:00 - [77] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer I miss warp to 15 and the old sniper gatecamps myself qft.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:42:00 - [78] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Lady Spank and i'm just trolling Yes, you are. I highly doubt that anybody could mwd out of their gate camp. Funny that. That's how it's most often done in non-cloaky ships. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:45:00 - [79] Excellent troll all in all. 7.5/10 Well done Milana.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.02 03:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Trader20 lol, u got owned ...not as bad as your momma the day she squatted you out. Stay on topic dumbass. ___________________________________________________ Idea: Train 3 alts at the same time solution.

Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Excellent troll all in all. 7.5/10 Well done Milana. I love the trolls calling me a troll. Too funny. Btw: Many of these comments/assumptions about perfectly elite clicking totally crack me up. I really wonder whether many of you understand the basic concepts/variability of Internet latency. e.g., Mouse clicks/button presses here on the west coast of the U.S. need to travel all the way across the continent and then across the Atlantic ocean before they register at the server, afaik. And of course not all data packets can be expected to travel perfectly/synchronously. e.g., Even if one performs two button presses rapidly in succession, there is no guarantee how fast/in-sync those will be received at the server, afaik. So, much of this talk of elite clicking is quite silly/irrelevant/funny to me in the context of a global Internet-based game.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:26:00 - [82] Originally by: Milana Arkani Btw: Many of these comments/assumptions about perfectly elite clicking totally crack me up. What assumptions? This is what people do every day. It's empirically proven to work, over and over and over again. Quote: I really wonder whether many of you understand the basic concepts/variability of Internet latency. Unlike you, yes. If you did understand it, you'd understand by know what people have repeatedly tried to tell you: latency works in your favour in this situation. You have the initiative; they have to wait for you to give the signal, burdened by latency and all. Do you understand why people are calling you a troll? Because you're arguing against known facts based on your own unproven, untested perception. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Excellent troll all in all. 7.5/10 Well done Milana. I love the trolls calling me a troll. Too funny. Except Lark was the first to give you a thoroughly helpful post (apart from me). Too bad you are an arrogant jerkoff and chose to ignore everyone. The only person going on about 'elite clicking' is you. I don't see anyone particularly flexing their awesomeness in their replies, just giving advice. Advice based on experience I might add. The fact that you have a predetermined belief that it is futile is blinding you to the help people are offering you. That or you are trolling, hence people saying so. They have far greater reason to call you a troll than you do of me for berating your whiny attitude. So seeing as im still replying here, I have to conclude you are indeed a successful troll. ~
Ava Starfire	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:35:00 - [84] OP is a moron. I run gatecamps on a daily basis. In ships from shuttles up to and including hurricanes. Learn to use a MWD. Burn back to the gate or out of range of the point. Most frigs and intys that can get in close ie, the sort of ships that carry MWD-disabling scrams last about 2/10 of a second under gateguns. Or, better yet, kill whats attacking you. Youll have gateguns on your side, who are no small ally. You have received some excellent advice. I suggest you use it. Space is fun!
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:37:00 - [85] Edited by: Milana Arkani on 02/01/2010 04:37:31 Originally by: Tippia On the contrary, nobody has proven anything here about latency one way or the other. Have you ever played a FPS when the server is based on a different continent? Generally, that is a distinct disadvantage, rather than an advantage. Note: I'm not saying my ship got blown up due to latency. I'm just finding it very amusing how many of you swear by elite clicking and insist that latency is a complete non-issue. (I think that point of view is quite ignorant.)
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:42:00 - [86] Originally by: Milana Arkani [On the contrary, nobody has proven anything here about latency one way or the other. Incorrect. You just choose to ignore it. Look again. Quote: Have you ever played a FPS when the server is based on a different continent? Irrelevant. FPS servers don't have the same tick. Quote: I'm just finding it very amusing how many of you swear by elite clicking and insist that latency is a complete non-issue. (I think that point of view is quite ignorant.) Indeed, you are quite ignorant. You fail to understand that latency makes your so-called elite clicking irrelevant, which is why no-one but you is mentioning it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Baitin	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:47:00 - [87] Originally by: Milana Arkani Edited by: Milana Arkani on 02/01/2010 04:37:31 Originally by: Tippia On the contrary, nobody has proven anything here about latency one way or the other. Have you ever played a FPS when the server is based on a different continent? Generally, that is a distinct disadvantage, rather than an advantage. Note: I'm not saying my ship got blown up due to latency. I'm just finding it very amusing how many of you swear by elite clicking and insist that latency is a complete non-issue. (I think that point of view is quite ignorant.) Yeah, if you refuse to learn GL surviving long in EVE. It's been explained several times in this thread how eve actually works, so either you're trolling or don't have the smarts to understand it.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:48:00 - [88] Originally by: Milana Arkani Edited by: Milana Arkani on 02/01/2010 04:37:31 Originally by: Tippia On the contrary, nobody has proven anything here about latency one way or the other. Have you ever played a FPS when the server is based on a different continent? Generally, that is a distinct disadvantage, rather than an advantage. Note: I'm not saying my ship got blown up due to latency. I'm just finding it very amusing how many of you swear by elite clicking and insist that latency is a complete non-issue. (I think that point of view is quite ignorant.) We swear by it, because we've done it successfully many, many, many times. And under much worse conditions, at that. Assuming you're not a troll, I'm absolutely convinced the delay was because you waited for your ship to visually decloak on your screen before hitting cloak (a common beginner's mistake). Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
ratamnimb	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:50:00 - [89] Originally by: Milana Arkani Edited by: Milana Arkani on 02/01/2010 04:37:31 Originally by: Tippia On the contrary, nobody has proven anything here about latency one way or the other. Have you ever played a FPS when the server is based on a different continent? Generally, that is a distinct disadvantage, rather than an advantage. Note: I'm not saying my ship got blown up due to latency. I'm just finding it very amusing how many of you swear by elite clicking and insist that latency is a complete non-issue. (I think that point of view is quite ignorant.) Hehe. And after all the advice given on this thread you choose to ignore, the "ignorant elite clickers" still have their ships, and you got sent home in a pod... Hmm...
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.02 04:51:00 - [90] Originally by: Tippia Anybody who insists that latency is not in any way an issue for a real-time Internet-based combat game is simply an idiot. Good night, troll.

ratamnimb	Posted - 2010.01.02 05:01:00 - [91] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Tippia Anybody who insists that latency is not in any way an issue for a real-time Internet-based combat game is simply an idiot. Good night, troll. If you understand latency so well, if you're so on top of it and know it through and through, then why didn't you compensate for it? Why'd you lose your ship to it? You made a mistake. You waited too long to recloak, giving the enemy 3 seconds (plenty of time for a boosted ship to lock+scram you) and lost your ship. You got sent home in a pod. And now you come on here complaining asking questions about it, and then ignore everyones advice on what has been working for us for years. You tried. You messed up. You died. You came on here to vent. You ignored advice. We still have all our ships from the methods we use, and you don't. And you persist to say we are all wrong... when your the one without a ship for tonight... You pretty much lose at EVE. WoW maybe? I heard the cows can be paladins now!!
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 05:05:00 - [92] Originally by: Milana Arkani Anybody who insists that latency is not in any way an issue for a real-time Internet-based combat game is simply an idiot. Ok, if you say so. Hey, idiot: listen very carefully because I'm going to say this once more and see if you get it this time. LATENCY WORKS IN YOUR FAVOUR IN THIS SITUATION Got that? Or do you need a diagram? You are the one claiming it's not an issue. You are the one claiming that you need elite clicking skills. You are the one who doesn't understand how cloaking works, or how the MWD works, or how targeting works, or how basic situational awareness works. You are the one who failed in this instance, and who refuses to listen to the empirically proven advice of people who have been in the same situation and gotten out of it. You are therefore the one who is in no position to explain anything, and who should rather STFU and listen to those who actually can explain it to you. You don't know how it works – the proof is in the pudding: you got nailed and didn't understand how or why. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2010.01.02 05:05:00 - [93] Originally by: Milana Arkani Anybody who insists that latency is not in any way an issue for a real-time Internet-based combat game is simply an idiot. Good night, troll. Latency effects both sides. Basically cancels out. Find another way to troll. And you are obviously trolling. I mean obviously trolling. Seriously, why are people still responding seriously? Either the OP refuses to accept advice and just wants to whine about non-existent problems (basically trolling) or the OP is a rather lazy [but successfull] troll (basically trolling, in much the same way that a duck is basically a swimming bird). Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.01.02 05:15:00 - [94] Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 02/01/2010 05:15:38 Screw gates. They are there for gankers and pirates. Use Wormholes. And uh.... snipe PG4
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2010.01.02 06:11:00 - [95] While it is true that the techniques given to you do work, and I have used them many times myself, I guess I'm too old to take the challenging route as often anymore. I simply get one of my youthfully aggressive corp mates in a covert or an interceptor to scout the gate first when I need to move a largish ship through low sec. Thats kinda what we keep em around for. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Seismos	Posted - 2010.01.02 07:33:00 - [96] Edited by: Seismos on 02/01/2010 07:35:03 There really isn't anything not mentioned already. But I'd like to add that lowsec gate camps are far from being impossible to survive. With a little bit of practice you will have an excellent chance of surviving. In fact I used to run cargo worth hundreds of millions of ISK to and through lowsec (feel free to check my contract history) and I hit more than one cate camp doing that. Specialized equipment (blockade runner + covert ops cloak) is a huge help but a "normal" ship with MWD + cloak will work too. Nonetheless you lost your ship; but you should not start to think that this the usual outcome. Feel free to contact me in-game if you have questions... EDIT: well questions about this. I am not the Oracle...
Barton Foley	Posted - 2010.01.02 07:35:00 - [97] Holy crap STOP RESPONDING TO THE OP. To invoke a meme, obvious troll is obvious. He/she/it has received all the relevant possible information, there is nothing left to do but troll.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.02 10:52:00 - [98] Bizarre thread. An honest question. Stupid game mechanics, contradictory "advice", rudeness, "you need two accounts", .... This is the kind of thing that keeps highSec full and lowSec empty.
Hamano Walker	Posted - 2010.01.02 11:16:00 - [99] Edited by: Hamano Walker on 02/01/2010 11:18:26 OK, I'm not that much of an old hand, but here's some tips and tricks I use for running through low/nullsec. Part 1: Look for camps. You have a map, use it. Start with "pod kills in the last hour". Do not enter these systems. Look for systems with a high "pod kills in 24 hours" and a large number of currently active pilots. Avoid these. Part 2: If you MUST go through these systems, make an alt on the same account. No need to train anything. Use a newb ship or shuttle to go have a look around. Shuttles align fast enough that they can run gate camps with slower players manning them. I can generally route non-camped runs from Jita to deep 0.0 with this method. Obviously, if you have a friend with spare time you don't need to do this yourself. (Notice that anyone can get to lowsec solo using these options alone) Part 3: Get a covops cloak. Hit the warp button and cloak immediately. I have yet to have problems with this method. I suppose you could also fire your MWD. Never ever get overconfident about your cloak. Watch local. Stay cloaked when you have no reason to be cloaked. Don't come out of it unless you're using your directional scanner to watch for probes closing in on you. If you gte jumped, you are deceased. On the other hand, if you find an un-camped 0.0 with a lot of names in local, find a hiding spot and stay cloaked. The fear of cloaked ships opening covert cynos and bringing in a fleet of stealth bomber and/or magic capsuleer eating dragons runs rampant in some circles. Your mere presence may cause a mining operation to scatter. Part 4: If you do run a camp and stay in the system for any reason (interdictor bubble, probing for explortaion etc) go ahead and start chatting in local. Tell them they have a good setup, they almost got you. Ask how many kills they have so far. You know they're going to shoot you if they can. Its not personal. No reason you can't discuss it. Every second they're typing is a second you're not getting shot and you might learn something in the process. --- How to deal with issues in EVE: Fight it, avoid it, run from it, buy it off, cry about it or learn from it.
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.01.02 11:29:00 - [100] Edited by: Kiri Serrensun on 02/01/2010 11:30:41 The "kills in last hour" is excellent advice, but check for "ship kills in last hour" rather than "pod kills"--pods are a lot easier to save in lowsec if the pilot knows what they're doing. Seriously, just using the map will tell you about 90% of gatecamps before you even enter the system. Also, think like a pirate--figure out where the obvious camp point is (lowsec entrance and / or two-way pipe) and try to avoid those. Sometimes it can be worth going through more lowsec systems to avoid a chokepoint. If you do get trapped too far from the gate, and you're dying, pick something in system and machine-gun the warp-to button until you see your pod in flight. It's a fairly reliable way of saving the pod. Originally by: Hamano Walker Stay cloaked when you have no reason to be cloaked. Don't come out of it unless you're using your directional scanner to watch for probes closing in on you. You can't be probed when cloaked, and you can use probes or the d-scanner when cloaked.

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.02 12:09:00 - [101] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Taedrin Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp. The excerpt from my log (original post above) demonstrates why that is not true. Btw: I think the people who say that one has about a second (if that) to escape are correct. Add in the latency factor, and I think one has virtually zero chance to escape under those circumstances. Um, latency works for you escaping, not against. The MWD-cloak trick is ridiculously effective, but that's not to say it doesn't take a little practice. Larkonis gave you complete instructions. Try them out in hi-sec with a friend. PS A good travel fit for that Ferox would be something like 3x Nanofibres and 1x WCS in the lows. Take off the large shield extenders as well; they add a lot to your sig radius and make you easier to lock. I only mention the WCS because you wont get much benefit from a 4th nano and you seem to like them. The nanos will help you to accelerate to warp speed more quickly, which is important. The only counter to the MWD-Cloak trick is to decloak the victim before he can reach the required speed.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.01.02 12:17:00 - [102] Originally by: Elena Laskova Bizarre thread. An honest question. Stupid game mechanics, contradictory "advice", rudeness, "you need two accounts", .... This is the kind of thing that keeps highSec full and lowSec empty. Bizarre post. An honest (but whiny) question, BASED ON PLAYER MISTAKE Game mechanics are 'stupid' only when you don't understand them. Most if not all advice in this thread has been consistent. Proof or STFU. Guess who's been rude (and whiny) after good advice has been given to him? (It's the OP, since from all your previous posts, you seem to display a lack of intelligence) I'll make it easier for you, to summarize: OP asked for advice/whined about gatecamps. Upon getting advice on how to avoid them, and people pointing out where he made a mistake, OP gets into a hissy fit and starts taking everything personally. Oh and he/she goes on about some elite clicking thing You come in and shows us what an idiot you are (again) as usual Point to the bit where 'you NEED 2 accounts' is said. No? The thing that keeps highsec full and lowsec empty is idiots like you. Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.02 12:34:00 - [103] What keeps the majority of players out of lowSec and noSec is that it's a major PITA to get there, and there's no obvious fun to be had from doing so. What will you do when you get there in your covert-ops ship? Chat with strangers in local? Run missions? Mine? Keep moving so you don't attract gankers? If you pretend-PvPers had a shred of self-respect you'd be watching for gate camps so you could smash the campers.
Bagrista	Posted - 2010.01.02 12:48:00 - [104] Originally by: Elena Laskova If you pretend-PvPers had a shred of self-respect you'd be watching for gate camps so you could smash the campers. Your tears sustain me. Also, posting in an epic troll thread! This is my annoying sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Zeredek Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.02 13:13:00 - [105] Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. FAIL [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Aligning to X [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] Cloakage WIN Zeredek Red Federation member Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Zeredek Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.02 13:16:00 - [106] Also, obligatory HTFU Zeredek Red Federation member Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.01.02 13:28:00 - [107] Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 02/01/2010 13:29:33 Originally by: Milana Arkani Anybody who insists that latency is not in any way an issue for a real-time Internet-based combat game is simply an idiot. Cloaking and MWD activation does not depend on the client-side state, but rather the server-side state. If you had a comp.sci education you'd realize why it makes the MWD+cloak trick work. You don't. Now stop being an idiot and go try it out yourself. Most n00bs fail the first few times until they get the hang of the timing. You're a n00b, so you obviously didn't get the timing right if you even bothered trying.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.02 13:40:00 - [108] There is no way for a rookie, regardless of their IT knowledge, being able to just "figure out" how the EvE server synchronizes with and between the two or more clients involved in this situation. Unless of course rookies are expected to reverse-engineer the protocol used between the server and client? EvE exhibits both client-to-server latency issues and client-side latency issues. This is normal for an MMO, and nothing to criticize as such. But you can't predict the specifics "up front", nor predict their consequences.
McFly C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2010.01.02 13:54:00 - [109] Edited by: McFly on 02/01/2010 13:55:32 I love these threads.... 90% of the posters agree on not only the issue but also the solution and the OP is still positively sure that we're wrong.... Always nice to wake up have a cup of coffee and want to gouge my eyes out this early in the morning.
vr0p Gallente DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2010.01.02 14:14:00 - [110] Well if it makes anyone feel better, we got her pod too ;-D

Cognito Ergosum Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.02 14:16:00 - [111] Fark the OP, thanks Larkonis, Lady Spank, and Tippia; I learned something that I didn't know from this thread and am appreciative of that. Only way to get better is to try the new tools in the toolbox. . .now here did I put that jump clone. . .
Novemb3r The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.02 14:48:00 - [112] the best way to avoid gate camps is to be in an eleet pvp corp. That way the pirate scouts can see you coming from 3 systems away so they have time to run to a station and hide in case you hotdrop a bunch of faction battleships on top of them. -
Starchy Jeanus	Posted - 2010.01.02 14:54:00 - [113] Some good tips in here, and a reminder for me to stop being lazy with the mouse and get used to hotkeys like any other MMO I would play!
Grarr Wrexx	Posted - 2010.01.02 15:11:00 - [114] Originally by: Novemb3r the best way to avoid gate camps is to be in an eleet pvp corp. That way the pirate scouts can see you coming from 3 systems away so they have time to run to a station and hide in case you hotdrop a bunch of faction battleships on top of them. Cause going around in highsec and lowsec in a bunch of 1337 faction BS is more important than defending your own space
Capitalist Swineherder	Posted - 2010.01.02 15:50:00 - [115] You're all trying to hard. If a mouse click then pressing two buttons in rapid succession qualifies as an elite skill, you need to go back to casual games. Solitare has no gate camps.
Hera Ominae	Posted - 2010.01.02 16:34:00 - [116] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Excellent troll all in all. 7.5/10 Well done Milana. I love the trolls calling me a troll. Too funny. Btw: Many of these comments/assumptions about perfectly elite clicking totally crack me up. I really wonder whether many of you understand the basic concepts/variability of Internet latency. e.g., Mouse clicks/button presses here on the west coast of the U.S. need to travel all the way across the continent and then across the Atlantic ocean before they register at the server, afaik. And of course not all data packets can be expected to travel perfectly/synchronously. e.g., Even if one performs two button presses rapidly in succession, there is no guarantee how fast/in-sync those will be received at the server, afaik. So, much of this talk of elite clicking is quite silly/irrelevant/funny to me in the context of a global Internet-based game. That works both ways you fool... Learn to use the OVERVIEW... This thread is good troll, or classic example of pilot who doesn't know what to do with the weird overview thingy on right side of the screen... Align gate, MWD ON and there you go if they dont have webs... That's because even one cycle is enough, and cruiser/BC class ship is very hard to stop when it gains speed. Vagas etc break gate camps easily if they don't have webs.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.01.03 00:27:00 - [117] Originally by: Elena Laskova If you pretend-PvPers had a shred of self-respect you'd be watching for gate camps so you could smash the campers. Actually any gatecamp that loiter too long at the same place is guaranteed to be busted with extreme prejudice. Same as too predictible mission runner gankers, eventually they'll bite a bait. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Novemb3r The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.03 07:09:00 - [118] Originally by: Grarr Wrexx Cause going around in highsec and lowsec in a bunch of 1337 faction BS is more important than defending your own space Could't defend it even if we wanted to. Can do much when you can't load grid ;) -
Typhado3 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.03 08:59:00 - [119] A bc flying by a inexperienced person gets caught by 10 lets repeat that TEN ppl set up specifically to catch ppl like you. You should not have escaped in fact if you escaped without some freakish miracle of nature causing it then this game would be beyond broken. Coming onto the forums and complaining the game is broken because of this clearly shows you don't have the right attitude for pvp in eve, I'd either recommend you stay in empire or leave eve. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.03 09:47:00 - [120] Edited by: Milana Arkani on 03/01/2010 09:53:01 Originally by: Typhado3 You should not have escaped in fact if you escaped without some freakish miracle of nature causing it then this game would be beyond broken. Coming onto the forums and complaining the game is broken because of this clearly shows you don't have the right attitude for pvp in eve, I'd either recommend you stay in empire or leave eve. Too funny!!! First, every troll on board flames me for being so "incompetent"/"slow" as not to escape a gate camp. (OK, fine, whatever.) Now, this guy flames me because, according to him, there is no way I should have expected to survive to begin with! Come on, folks, get your story straight. Which is it? But most importantly: Originally by: Typhado3 "this clearly shows you don't have the right attitude for pvp in eve" So funny how you think you are entitled to decide who "has the right attitude for pvp" and who is well suited to play EVE. Originally by: Typhado3 "I'd either recommend you stay in empire or leave eve." Who cares what you recommend??? I recommend that you STFU, troll.

Bagrista	Posted - 2010.01.03 10:06:00 - [121] Why do you keep going on about some "elite clicking"? Pressing two keys in a quick sucession (faster than 3s... thats not even quick, i could probably do that with my wang) is "elite" to you? I think you should consider some other pastime, because you obviously weren't made for computer gaming. Can I have your stuff now? This is my annoying sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.03 10:17:00 - [122] Milana please keep up with your closed minded attempts to PvP, easy killmails are always useful for padding. Bagrista, lol you win the thread. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.01.03 10:25:00 - [123] Alright, I'll bite. 1) Examine gatecamp. 2) See if targets are clustered on the gate or very close to you. 3) Check interceptors. Are they moving or sitting still? 4) If the gate you just jumped through is highsec, consider that. Covert Cloak: Okay. If... i) targets are clustered on the gate, you have a good chance to warp. ii) targets are near you or within decloaking range, your best bet is to mwd back to the gate and spam jump. iii) you are on a highsec gate and are afraid of losing your valuable gear, consider cloaking and burning back to the gate. Normal Cloak/MWD/Align/Warp Okay. If... i) Interceptors are moving, you have a fairly good chance to get aligned before they can bump you. ii) there is a heavy interdictor be aware you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WARP if you get decloaked somehow. iii) people are near you then your best bet is to run back to the gate with cloak/mwd and spam jump. How to align/cloak/warp If you are satisfied as good to warp, click "warp" to your destination, wait a very slight moment, then hit your cloak button. The delay should be appropriate enough to cloak immediately. This is something you have to feel out. If you have a microwarpdrive fitted, as soon as you press the cloak button click the MWD button AFTER you hit the cloak button. This is important because once you start cloaking you break locks and your sig will go up and you will be uncloakable. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.03 10:34:00 - [124] Originally by: Bagrista Can I have your stuff now? No, because you're just another mindless alt coward. And you're clearly not bright enough to grasp the basic concept that rapid keystrokes are not necessarily instantaneously processed by a server on a different continent. Good night, trolls.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.	Posted - 2010.01.03 10:44:00 - [125] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 03/01/2010 10:44:33 "Can I have your stuf?" is indeed the only suitable reply to the OP left at this point, since he refuses to accept any useful responses at all. Understand, Milana, that we wouldn't have replied to the thread at all if we weren't genuinely trying to help you. If you have any brains at all, you will go back and read Larkonis' excellent post on the first page and then go practice that maneuver in high sec until you have it down right. Originally by: Akita T this whole game is just me playing with myself
Bagrista	Posted - 2010.01.03 10:46:00 - [126] Originally by: Milana Arkani No, because you're just another mindless alt coward. And you're clearly not bright enough to grasp the basic concept that rapid keystrokes are not necessarily instantaneously processed by a server on a different continent. Good night, trolls. Thousands of players with similar geographical and technical "difficulties" play every day and nobody except you is BAAAAAWWWWWWing on the forums about how he can't click two buttons in less than 3 seconds. Why do you think you're special? Is it because your elementary school classroom had "Special Education" written on the door? This is my annoying sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem	Posted - 2010.01.03 11:16:00 - [127] Originally by: Bagrista Originally by: Milana Arkani No, because you're just another mindless alt coward. And you're clearly not bright enough to grasp the basic concept that rapid keystrokes are not necessarily instantaneously processed by a server on a different continent. Good night, trolls. Thousands of players with similar geographical and technical "difficulties" play every day and nobody except you is BAAAAAWWWWWWing on the forums about how he can't click two buttons in less than 3 seconds. Why do you think you're special? Is it because your elementary school classroom had "Special Education" written on the door? More like "Daycare center" :) -----
Zeredek Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.03 11:25:00 - [128] Originally by: Bagrista Originally by: Milana Arkani No, because you're just another mindless alt coward. And you're clearly not bright enough to grasp the basic concept that rapid keystrokes are not necessarily instantaneously processed by a server on a different continent. Good night, trolls. Thousands of players with similar geographical and technical "difficulties" play every day and nobody except you is BAAAAAWWWWWWing on the forums about how he can't click two buttons in less than 3 seconds. Why do you think you're special? Is it because your elementary school classroom had "Special Education" written on the door? My mom says i'm special on the inside Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2010.01.03 11:29:00 - [129] Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. So you need to align and cloak in one swift motion basically, to give them no time to click on you. A little bad luck and latency will get you killed though... Tha is NOT true. When you have an yellow bracked you have already been locked. Try liek this.. get a stealth bobmer.. and a friend in acarrier. Ask him to start locking. SHould take almost 1 minute. You can cloak any time during that. Fact is BC is not a small ship and its easy to lock it in 1 seconds only. And Server lag sometimes is far larger than that so your cloak command might not arrive in time.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.03 12:15:00 - [130] Has CCP ever published anything about how the EvE server and clients work, and how they're synchronized? Or has a serious player experimented and documented it? This thread has presented several different, mutually exclusive versions, each apparently supported by experiments. They can't all be true.

Lagruna Zegata	Posted - 2010.01.03 12:16:00 - [131] Rookie question for Larkonis: You said in your instructions to pick an out-of-the-way celestial at a camp if the outbound gate is lined up with your ship and/or the inbound gate. Why is this? Why not align towards something straight ahead of you (even though it's less important with an active cloak)? ~LZ
Zeredek Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.03 12:19:00 - [132] Originally by: Lagruna Zegata Rookie question for Larkonis: You said in your instructions to pick an out-of-the-way celestial at a camp if the outbound gate is lined up with your ship and/or the inbound gate. Why is this? Why not align towards something straight ahead of you (even though it's less important with an active cloak)? ~LZ Drag bubbles Zeredek Gallente Federation Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Multipurpose Cleaner	Posted - 2010.01.03 12:52:00 - [133] Originally by: Zeredek Originally by: Lagruna Zegata Rookie question for Larkonis: You said in your instructions to pick an out-of-the-way celestial at a camp if the outbound gate is lined up with your ship and/or the inbound gate. Why is this? Why not align towards something straight ahead of you (even though it's less important with an active cloak)? ~LZ Drag bubbles and smartbombs
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.03 13:23:00 - [134] Originally by: Lagruna Zegata Rookie question for Larkonis: You said in your instructions to pick an out-of-the-way celestial at a camp if the outbound gate is lined up with your ship and/or the inbound gate. Why is this? Why not align towards something straight ahead of you (even though it's less important with an active cloak)? ~LZ On the off chance that their HIC pilot is switched on and has a MWD fitted as soon as he sees you cloak he will start burning towards you. If you spawn on the opposite side of the gate to the outbound and the inbound (and thus the camping ship) are between you and the outbound you will start aligning towards him, cutting the distance down considerably and adding to the chance that he gets a good 'vector' on you and decloaks you. I would make an illustration but I suck at drawing. Reference picking something in front of you. You will find it takes exactly the same amount of time to align to something in front, behind or to the side of you after you jump through a gate.
Dianna Soreil Monolithic.	Posted - 2010.01.03 15:04:00 - [135] holy **** you people are easy to troll
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.03 16:09:00 - [136] Edited by: Tippia on 03/01/2010 16:09:58 Originally by: Milana Arkani And you're clearly not bright enough to grasp the basic concept that rapid keystrokes are not necessarily instantaneously processed by a server on a different continent. In other words, latency is working in your favour as you're trying to escape. Originally by: Dianna Soreil holy **** you people are easy to troll I wish we were so lucky. Unfortunately, OP is an idiot that can't even understand his own arguments. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.03 16:20:00 - [137] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Dianna Soreil holy **** you people are easy to troll I wish we were so lucky. Unfortunately, OP is an idiot that can't even understand his own arguments. No, OP is trolling. Most of us figured it out about halfway down page 1.
Trader20	Posted - 2010.01.03 16:21:00 - [138] Just emorage/quit already and contract me your stuff.....lock this thread.
N'tek alar Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.03 16:22:00 - [139] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 03/01/2010 16:09:58 Originally by: Milana Arkani And you're clearly not bright enough to grasp the basic concept that rapid keystrokes are not necessarily instantaneously processed by a server on a different continent. In other words, latency is working in your favour as you're trying to escape. Originally by: Dianna Soreil holy **** you people are easy to troll I wish we were so lucky. Unfortunately, OP is an idiot that can't even understand his own arguments. except it's obvious that latency only affects the victims of pirates since pirates regukarly break into the server room and hack the code so latency only affects their victims and not themselves... ------------------------- I'm not shirtless damnit!
Bagrista	Posted - 2010.01.04 03:02:00 - [140] Originally by: N'tek alar except it's obvious that latency only affects the victims of pirates since pirates regukarly break into the server room and hack the code so latency only affects their victims and not themselves... http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=67 This is my annoying sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Milana Arkani Caldari Strategic Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.01.04 03:55:00 - [141] Edited by: Milana Arkani on 04/01/2010 03:58:43 To clear up a couple misconceptions that are endlessly repeated in this thread: 1. I haven't disregarded the several interesting/practical/realistic/constructive replies to this thread. (e.g., Many say that I keep ignoring everything good/useful that is said to me, as if it is falling on deaf ears. But that's not true. I carefully read and consider and appreciate everything useful.) (Constructive comments = good. Trolls = bad.) 2. The combat log records events from the SERVER, if I am not mistaken. (That is a key point that I think many of you continue to overlook.) So, the SERVER indicates when it receives my full speed command. Then, three seconds later, it indicates that my attempt to cloak is blocked, etc. Some of you guys keep parroting that it took me three seconds to cloak, when in fact you have no idea whether that is true or not. Again, the combat log records events from the SERVER not the CLIENT, afaik. (Again, I can tap my keyboard as quickly as I want, but there is no guarantee when the server will receive and process those commands.) Good quote here: Originally by: Seishi Maru Fact is BC is not a small ship and its easy to lock it in 1 seconds only. And Server lag sometimes is far larger than that so your cloak command might not arrive in time. Regards, Milana Arkani
Zeredek Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.01.04 04:11:00 - [142] I'm sorry Milana Arkani But i have to put you down I'll miss you You always was my favorite pet Zeredek Gallente Federation Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.04 04:37:00 - [143] Originally by: Milana Arkani 1. I haven't disregarded the several interesting/practical/realistic/constructive replies to this thread. Yes you have, mainly by claiming that things that have a proven track record as very much working techniques aren't practical or realistic. Quote: Some of you guys keep parroting that it took me three seconds to cloak, when in fact you have no idea whether that is true or not. No, it still tells us that you were slow. The server ticks are shorter than 3s so had your commands been closer together, you would have seen that in the logs. You also keep ignoring the fact that the exact same latency exists on the opponent's side, delaying his chance to react and slowing down his response. Here's an exercise for you: take your Ferox, fill it with ungrouped guns, take it to a belt and find yourself a rat. Now run your finger across F1-F7 and notice how the shots are grouped. You now know how quickly in succession things need to happen in order for the server to consider it a simultaneous event. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Khorian Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.04 06:10:00 - [144] Edited by: Khorian on 04/01/2010 06:12:47 When I was still gatecamping in Low Sec it always amazed me how many people we killed. We even got some Blockade Runners who had cov ops cloaks fitted but didn't use them. You need to realize that a specialized gate camp is built around the tackler. They have a solution for almost everything that might happen or come through. At least we had. The setups of their ships are all highly specialized for their tasks. InstaLoc Hictors, Lachesis, Proteus. Consider your MWD shut of in the first split second. You wont even have time to build up momentum in a proper camp. But here is the good news: There is lag when yu are targetting too. I had lots of people show up in the targetted bar for a split second but the Scrambler wouldn't activate because they really were in warp allready. That can be quite frustrating. Your best bet of survival is to use a scout and avoid to find yourself in such a situation. Because they use scouts and see you coming from miles away. Your second best bet is to use the MWD-Cloak trick as everyone else here allready told you. Your third best bet is to use a Frig with <1sec aligntime or a cov ops cloaky ship. Your fourth best bet is to use a huge buffer tanked ship abd pray you can slowboat back to the gate. I would say your chances are higher with an AB than with a MWD these days but that of course also depends on the gatecamp. You can also fly with a gang. If your gang is impressive enough the evil piwats wont even go to the gate to attack. Because as i said they see you coming from miles away and only come out to play if they are guaranteed a win. With all that said, and if you follow those guidelines it is IMPOSSIBLE to die in Low Sec. IMPOSSIBLE! Once you understand that, you will also feel SAFE when you enter Low Sec coming from 0.0. In high Sec there is evil Concord and Navys. In 0.0 there is evil bubbles. Only Low Sec is safe. _______________
Zeredek Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.01.04 06:24:00 - [145] Originally by: Khorian But here is the good news: There is lag when yu are targetting too. I had lots of people show up in the targetted bar for a split second but the Scrambler wouldn't activate because they really were in warp allready. That can be quite frustrating. Activate scramble while targeting then? Zeredek Gallente Federation Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Khorian Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.04 06:55:00 - [146] Originally by: Zeredek Originally by: Khorian But here is the good news: There is lag when yu are targetting too. I had lots of people show up in the targetted bar for a split second but the Scrambler wouldn't activate because they really were in warp allready. That can be quite frustrating. Activate scramble while targeting then? Doesn't help :) _______________
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.04 07:42:00 - [147] Edited by: Elena Laskova on 04/01/2010 07:44:48 Originally by: Tippia ... You also keep ignoring the fact that the exact same latency exists on the opponent's side ... This is not true. I play on a 3G card with a local network latency of about 350 milliseconds (reasonably stable). I'd expect most players are on 50 ms to 150 ms latency. Servers and clients like EvE's which are built together can do things which mitigate the consequences of latency, so you can't randomly assume things work a certain way. For example a client can send commands as they are received, without waiting for a server acknowlegement. Or, as in my last MMO, some (not all) commands could require an ack before you can send another one - effectively locking the keyboard for 2 times network latency, which can be very nice for the player with lower latency. EvE's code has been around a long time. I'd expect it contains a lot of server-side and client-side optimization intended to mitigate the effects of differential latency. But it's impossible for an MMO to perfectly synchronize two players with different network latency. And I do mean impossible. If every single player was on 50ms stable latency or less you could make it very hard to notice though. I can also state with 100% confidence that things happening in the client PC/operating system can cause client-side latency. It looks like you can get additional client-side latency induced by overloading the graphics card too, but I don't have a way to measure that. Bottom line: in today's EvE there are latency effects. Some notes for the lunatic fringe of posters: * I certainly could explain, (even execute) some testable scenarios, but I don't see the point. See above for an request (unanswered) for a link to some decent data. * Differential latency doesn't mean that all the suggestions in this thread are wrong. Or even that the explanations are wrong. * The thread contains contradictory answers. Some of the posts are wrong. Some of the explanations are wrong. * Given the lack of knowledge of basic IT stuff displayed in this thread, it's very likely that some correct suggestions have incorrect explanations, and vice-versa.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.01.04 07:54:00 - [148] Originally by: Tippia You also keep ignoring the fact that the exact same latency exists on the opponent's side, delaying his chance to react and slowing down his response. Since network latency is a property of the network route (and its condition) a package has to travel, i.e. from the client to the server or from the server to the client, you can assume that two different users have two different routes and thus will not have the exact same latency. Even if this only accounts for the last hop of the total route it can - and usually does - make a difference. Why would (other) online games show you the ping (a basic metric for network latency) of other players? Certainly not because they all have the same latency.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.04 09:11:00 - [149] Edited by: Tippia on 04/01/2010 09:14:37 Originally by: Elena Laskova Originally by: Tippia ... You also keep ignoring the fact that the exact same latency exists on the opponent's side ... This is not true. Originally by: Ban Doga Originally by: Tippia You also keep ignoring the fact that the exact same latency exists on the opponent's side, delaying his chance to react and slowing down his response. Since network latency is a property of the network route (and its condition) a package has to travel, i.e. from the client to the server or from the server to the client, you can assume that two different users have two different routes and thus will not have the exact same latency. Ok, "exact same" was a bad choice of words. What I mean is that if it takes the server 1.5s to get the command you input, it takes the opponent the same 1.5s (at least) to get it as well – his possible reactions to a situation where you have the initiative is delayed by your latency, which helps you. And, as mentioned, there's also latency on his end. It may not be symmetrical with yours, but it adds to what you have, and again, since you have the initiative, you're aided by it. Originally by: Elena Laskova * The thread contains contradictory answers. Some of the posts are wrong. Some of the explanations are wrong. The thread contains answers that agree with the posits made in the OP, and answers that are right. It's really that simple. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.04 09:34:00 - [150] Tippia: You're still wrong. As I tried to explain, the situation is not as simple as it appears at first glance. There are surprisingy many different scenarios (depends on what initiated each sequence of actions, how the server works, how the client works), and results will vary a great deal between different scenarios. Simple example: Server makes Player A (250 ms N/W latency) arrives somewhere after warp (i.e. server-initiated sequence). Player B (100 ms latency) is very close to that location. * Player B's client learns A has arrived 100 ms later. * Player A's client learns A has arrived 250 ms later. * B issues a command (received by the server 100 ms later. * B's command 1 is acked back to B (ack received 100 ms after it's sent). * A sends his first command. * B sends a second command. In what sequence are the commands executed? What are the command timestamps logged (in server time) in the client? This is a very basic scenario, assuming that commands have to be acked before another can be sent. Does EvE actually work this way? I don't know. The scenario is intended to highlight the basic issues of synchronizing players' clients in a realtime shared runtime like an MMO. The "lunatic fringe" section of my last post summarizes what happens when you don't consider stuff like this.

Dipluz Caldari PodPal	Posted - 2010.01.04 09:46:00 - [151] Originally by: Milana Arkani I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp). Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.) Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?) Everything is as gameplay is made and intended by CCP, nr1 low sec isnt SAFE! nr2 hic (heavy interdictors) has a unlimited warp disruption point when in low sec or 0.0, which means warp core stab is useless nr3 dont fly heavy and slow ships like a ferox in low sec ITS NOT SAFE nr4 if u wanna fly in low sec which is low security area fly with friends and fight your way nr5 a heavy interdictor with 3 sensor boosters plus remote sensor boosted by countless others will properly have 2-3000 scan resolutin which is about fast enough to target faster than you can cloak. nr6 a ferox is not hard to decloak even after you cloak nr7 eve is a pvp game :P live with it or go back to wow
McFly C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2010.01.04 09:49:00 - [152] SOMEONE LOCK THIS THREAD MY HEAD HURTS!
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.04 09:53:00 - [153] Originally by: Elena Laskova Simple example: Server makes Player A (250 ms N/W latency) arrives somewhere after warp (i.e. it's a server-initiated sequence). Player B (100 ms latency) is very close to that location. 1) Player B's client learns A has arrived 100 ms later. 2) Player A's client learns A has arrived 250 ms later. 3) B issues a command (received by the server 100 ms later, at +200 ms). 4) B's command 1 is acked back to B (ack received at +300 ms). 5) A sends his first command at +250 ms. 6) B sends a second command at +300 ms. I've numbered the events to make things clearer. The thing is, that in the scenario we're talking about here, event 3) cannot happen before event 5) (and events 7 and 8, not listed, where the server acks event 5 and rebroadcasts it to everyone on grid, which is then acked by B). In this particular scenario, we can say a couple of things with certainty about the order of events because the game prescribes that they must happen in that exact order. Unless A is unlucky and lands close enough to B to be insta-uncloaked, B can do fsck-all until A lets him. A must issue his command, it must be acked by the server, it must be broadcast and acked by B, and only then can B issue his command (which is further delayed by good old bio-latency… ) ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2010.01.04 10:04:00 - [154] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 02/01/2010 13:29:33 Originally by: Milana Arkani Anybody who insists that latency is not in any way an issue for a real-time Internet-based combat game is simply an idiot. Cloaking and MWD activation does not depend on the client-side state, but rather the server-side state. If you had a comp.sci education you'd realize why it makes the MWD+cloak trick work. You don't. Now stop being an idiot and go try it out yourself. Most n00bs fail the first few times until they get the hang of the timing. You're a n00b, so you obviously didn't get the timing right if you even bothered trying. stop acting like you would know anything cause you dont if you would have a clue than you would know that latency is actually helping and you dont need a high grade IT education to know that. you are the typical "I pretend to know something" guy but you think one sided and forget the biggest factor which is time and to figure that out you only need some working braincells. you said by yourself, it is all server sided, but by the time you start locking a ship that aligned and cloaked at the same time, it is already cloaked for the server, you just have not received the data and all you will get is a "target is invulnerable" message.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.04 10:15:00 - [155] Edited by: Elena Laskova on 04/01/2010 10:23:15 Tippia: Events 3 and 5 (sending commands to server) are client-side events. It's impossible for the server to stop them happening in the order I showed, because the ack from B's first command would arrive at A after A's first command is sent. What happens at the server cannot be predicted, but the possibilities are known. The easiest approach for the server is to execute commands in arrival sequence. OTOH, it's technically possible for the server to change the sequence (execution order differs from arrival order) if it can see a shared context (such as A and B targeting each other). The scenario you described (every client receives and acts every other clients' commands) is possible but unlikely, as it propagates the worst latency to everyone.
UVPhoenix2 R.EVE.olutioN Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.01.04 10:50:00 - [156] If you have a lower latency to tranquility than your opponent, you are going to have the advantage when it comes to split-second moves. If you think the person living in the UK has no advantage over the person living in California, please go away and come back once you've RTFM. ___ After I'm gone, your Earth will be free to live out its miserable span of existence, as one of my satellites, and that's how it's going to be.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.04 11:00:00 - [157] Originally by: Elena Laskova Events 3 and 5 (sending commands to server) are client-side events. It's impossible for the server to stop them happening in the order I showed, because the ack from B's first command would arrive at A after A's first command is sent. Then you're talking about a completely different situation than we're discussing here. Until A's commmand is acked, he doesn't exist, so there is nothing B can do that makes any difference. The server already knows where A is, and will under certain circumstances force him into existance so that B can start taking actions, but that's not the scenario being discussed. Yes, in general, you're right, but in this particular instance we know what must happen and in what order: A must send a command that uncloaks him. The server must recieve this command (otherwise, it will refuse any interaction with A). The server must rebroadcast it to B (otherwise, the next step can't happen). B must receive it (otherwise, A will not exist on B's client). B can now start sending commands that affect A. The server recieves those commands (and B hopes that A hasn't had time to sneak in a step 1.1 that was received and effected as a yet-unknown step 2.1, which would cause the server to now report back to B with a "pff! too slow, sucker"). The only question here is whether the server would allow those hypothetical 1.1 and 2.1 steps, and as anyone who've tried to grab uncloaking ships in a high-lag environment can attest… it does. Gladly. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
5pinDizzy Amarr Pillow Fighters Inc	Posted - 2010.01.04 11:49:00 - [158] I remember almost losing a pilgrim due to server lag. Only thing that saved me was because it was a regional gate and I was too far away to point. Even though I mashed it, went something like: You cannot activate the cloaking module because you are cloaked from jump in. You cannot activate the cloaking module because you are cloaked from jump in. You cannot cloak because you are being targeted by someone. I stopped using covop ships as much since then, as I realised no matter how fast I click cloak, lags going to kill me most of the time at some point.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.04 11:51:00 - [159] I used warp as an example because that makes it all server initiated. A doesn't tell the server he's arrived. The server tells A and B that A has arrived. Client-initiated sequences (which certainly happen, for example locking someone) are different again. NB: I did make a small assumption, that warp start is a client to server command (defiitely true ofc) and that warp arrival is a server to client status update (assumed, but very likely).
Kalroth Yet Another Mining Corp	Posted - 2010.01.04 12:03:00 - [160] This thread is too long - I gave up after page 3. One thing though that I found odd is that the OP clicked fullspeed. Nevermind he is clicking with the mouse, but why is it fiddling around with the speed options? In this case if select your desired destination, highlight it in your overview and click warp to or align to then mwd+cloak and follow the other instructions. Your ship automatically goes to full speed so never any reason to use that at all while traveling. That's just wierd.

Johan Sabbat Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.01.04 12:55:00 - [161] A very interesting and educational thread, But there is something I'd like to know... Who is number 1 ? Originally by: Le Skunk This thread is redundant. Everyone knows im the second best tackler in the game SKUNK --- Fake Edit I'm not a number
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:07:00 - [162] Seems to me you can queue the commands and get through most camps. Until recently I played on a satelite connection with a 1800 ping. I fly cov ops. I was rarely ever caught in a camp, including bubbles and all the rest. Even now I play on a 400 ping connection. The mwd/cloak trick still works, np. You can get away 99% of the time, in a frig anyway. I fly blockade runners as well, and so forth. Getting the timing right is the big thing.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:14:00 - [163] Originally by: UVPhoenix2 If you think the person living in the UK has no advantage over the person living in California, please go away and come back once you've RTFM. So, you think that physical distance is the most important factor when considering network latency when the signal can travel at the speed of light? Interesting. Why is it then that someone living in the the middle of nowhere in the UK has a higher EVE latency than someone living in a well-connected area in California? I mean, the Californian mice must have to run REALLY fast to beat the UK mice to the servers, right? ---------------------- They're angry there was damage done to their ship.
UVPhoenix2 R.EVE.olutioN Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:29:00 - [164] Originally by: Wacktopia Originally by: UVPhoenix2 If you think the person living in the UK has no advantage over the person living in California, please go away and come back once you've RTFM. So, you think that physical distance is the most important factor when considering network latency when the signal can travel at the speed of light? Interesting. Why is it then that someone living in the the middle of nowhere in the UK has a higher EVE latency than someone living in a well-connected area in California? I mean, the Californian mice must have to run REALLY fast to beat the UK mice to the servers, right? He's doing it wrong. ___ After I'm gone, your Earth will be free to live out its miserable span of existence, as one of my satellites, and that's how it's going to be.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Sacred Templars Black Swan.	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:40:00 - [165] Call your ship "Pirate Bait" and CRTL-Q as soon as you hit hostiles. I recall getting into a gatecamp in Atlar/Illamur and that working, somehow.
Acedias Atropos Asylum	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:48:00 - [166] You people.. bleh. If you die in eve, then you were obviously not trying hard enough. Try harder next time.
Eunoli	Posted - 2010.01.04 15:54:00 - [167] There was a great suggestion earlier in this thread that I hope the OP tries out: Go to an asteroid belt and engage some rats. Start by using the mouse to click the target, lock on, then fire the weapons. Put one of your weapons in the spot of your cloaking device. Check the log to see how long it takes between individual clicks to register. Now, do the same thing but use the keyboard. Press the keys in rapid succession (do not wait at all - just roll your finger across the keys in order) and check the log. You will be amazed to see how much time is used by mouse clicking. No matter how fast you are at mouse clicking using the keyboard is faster in this type of situation.
Lazr GoPew Here comes the pain train	Posted - 2010.01.04 16:26:00 - [168] just posting to confirm i actually read this whole thread \o/ (now lets hope my boss doesnt play eve and knows my char names ;< )
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2010.01.04 17:16:00 - [169] As soon as you hit "warp to" or "align to" your screen will give a lurch as the ship comes to life. Hit your MWD and cloak right then. I've found that jumping the gun on that lurch leads to bad things happening :), but as long as I activate stuff immediately after that lurch, I'm good.
Esola	Posted - 2010.01.04 18:48:00 - [170] Originally by: Ana Vyr As soon as you hit "warp to" or "align to" your screen will give a lurch as the ship comes to life. Hit your MWD and cloak right then. I've found that jumping the gun on that lurch leads to bad things happening :), but as long as I activate stuff immediately after that lurch, I'm good. I might try to look for that. If I loose a cloaked ship at a gate it is because of the definite time gap between "align" and the time you can "cloak" (at least from my client/ISP): 1. Align 2. Immediately hit cloak 3. wait for cloak to activate...wait for cloak to activate... 4. cloak never activeates because I was still jump-cloaked when I hit it 5. locked/boom If I hit align, and then immediately try to cloak, that is too fast (for my connection?), and the cloak doesn't activate. I absolutely have to pause between align and pressing the cloak PF key. That has produces the following variation once or twice: 1. Hit align, 2. Pause, hit cloak 3. wait for cloak to activate...wait for cloak to activate... 4. Assume I must have hit cloak to fast, as in the above example 5. Hit cloak again 5. cloak activates 6 cloak deactivates 7. locked/boom Lag/latency can certainly cause lost cloakers, maybe depending on the quality of your connection.

Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.04 19:02:00 - [171] Originally by: Acedias You people.. bleh. If you die in eve, then you were obviously not trying hard enough. Try harder next time. If your not dying, your not trying hard enough, or blobbing. ~
Rhoulaki	Posted - 2010.01.05 04:11:00 - [172] Probability OP is a troll by page: Page 1: 46.8% Page 2: 83.7% Page 3: 99.9% Page 4: 100% Page 5: 100% Page 6: 100%
Sumelar	Posted - 2010.01.05 06:37:00 - [173] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: chatgris Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone. 44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak. I clicked the full speed icon and then immediately clicked the cloak button. Of course, there is also some latency. (Btw: The log time is also probably truncated to the nearest second. So, it is not necessarily 3 full seconds.) Which means it was at least 2 seconds, which is still too long by far. Lag doesn't account for it either, you were just too slow.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.05 07:28:00 - [174] Edited by: Elena Laskova on 05/01/2010 07:31:47 Edited by: Elena Laskova on 05/01/2010 07:30:25 Still too many assumptions being made here. It looks to me that align and normal acceleration induce a server-side delay, and block your next command until an ack is received. (NB - it could also be a client-side delay). It looks like activating an AB (no motion involved there) avoids the delay, with the net effect of instantly removing the cloak, and allowing you to send your first server command before the other local ships have "seen" you. This would explain why the advice provided by exerienced players is correct (highly likely - they do it all the time), but some alternative command sequences are not effective (there is evidence for this - several different people have described similar unsuccessful sequences). If that's the case, the endless insults about slow reactions, poor choice of commands, etc are unjustified. This stuff isn't documented, and EvE players in general seem to be clueless about the basics of client/server design. Meaning a rookie has no chance at all to figure out how a gatecamp works unless they are happy to lose 10 or 20 ships testing it out.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.01.05 07:54:00 - [175] Originally by: Elena Laskova Edited by: Elena Laskova on 05/01/2010 07:39:06 Still too many assumptions being made here. It looks to me that align and normal acceleration induce a server-side delay, and block your next command until an ack is received. (NB - it could also be a client-side delay). It looks like activating an AB (no motion involved there) avoids the delay, with the net effect of instantly removing the cloak, and allowing you to send your first server command before the other local ships have "seen" you. This would explain why the advice provided by exerienced players is correct (highly likely - they do it all the time), but some alternative command sequences are not effective (there is evidence for this - several different people have described similar unsuccessful sequences). If that's the case, the endless insults about slow reactions, poor choice of commands, etc are unjustified. This stuff isn't documented, and EvE players in general seem to be clueless about the basics of client/server design. Meaning a rookie has no chance at all to figure out how a gatecamp works unless they are happy to lose 10 or 20 ships testing it out. I think a lot more players would venture into lowSec and even nullSec if this kind of information was avaialable. Of course this would require the EvE "community" to take the trouble to learn why things like this work (because it's clear all the "knowledge" is a result of disorganized and incomplete experiments). And explain it in a way that's accessible to rookies, and undertandable. This kind of idiotic thread isn't a sign that EvE is "deep", or requires superior intelligence to play. There is a big difference between having appropriate knowledge, and being smart. Keeping important information secret doesn't make you smart. It makes you a prat. Activating a module (AB or MWD) cannot be your first command. The jump-in cloak from the gate will prevent it from activating (instead of the module dropping the jump-in cloak). You may have noticed this: "07:47:28 Notify Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time." You really have to issue a movement command or wait till the cloak drops by timeout. So I'm wondering... Did you actually try your theory in game (activating an AB as best way to drop the jump-in cloak) or did you just went by your own observation which was Originally by: Elena Laskova too many assumptions being made here.
couger malthas Amarr Shiva	Posted - 2010.01.05 07:58:00 - [176] WTF, has Eve done, spawn a bunch of limp wristed carebears? If i remember Eve gives warnings for one when you enter lowsec, and second off they are just playing the game for how they see it. When i started playing eve i remember getting ganked in empire and i know a lot of people who got ganked as well. You wanna know what we did? We grew some balls and got a new ship. If you got a problem with PVP or getting ganked there is more then one way to get out of it, 1 being stay in .5+ or going and playing HelloKitty Online. So please stop clogging up the forums with how you forgot your big girl panties at home. _______________________________________________
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.05 08:09:00 - [177] Ban Doga I didn't (and won't) test anything. I did make a mistake though - I trusted I'd remembered one of the many recommended methods for getting through a gate camp, and it seems I was wrong. Either way I stand by my intended comment, which is that the game would be a lot better if these stupid tricks were clearly identified and documented. Preferably by CCP, and preferably in a repeatable tutorial. It would probably take a rookie several hundred excruciatingly boring hours and several hundred ships to figure out all the stupid counter-intuitive techniques needed for basic EvE PvP. It's hardly surprising a lot of rookies don't bother.
Argat Bogotsch	Posted - 2010.01.05 08:44:00 - [178] At times like those I usually just take the situation like it is. I just set up orbit around them and start firing. Hell, if I'm not going to get out alive at least I'll go down swingin'.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.05 09:36:00 - [179] Originally by: Elena Laskova If that's the case, the endless insults about slow reactions, poor choice of commands, etc are unjustified. This stuff isn't documented, and EvE players in general seem to be clueless about the basics of client/server design. Meaning a rookie has no chance at all to figure out how a gatecamp works unless they are happy to lose 10 or 20 ships testing it out. There's another, considerably more efficient, way for them to find out, but it involves not being an argumentative jerk to people who know more about the game than them. A modi****of social skills will take a new player much further in EVE than any number of fancy G15 keyboards and low-latency connections.
Elena Laskova	Posted - 2010.01.05 09:48:00 - [180] Malcanis This thread, regardless of what OP or I have said, like most PvP threads, contains contradictory information. The same happens if you ask questions in an ingame channel. And unless you're already an expert you're not able to select and use the good information, and reject the bad. The only consistent verifiable advice I've received about learning EvE PvP is to join EvE University and/or do the Agony Unleashed class. That's it. The whole lowSec/noSec game seems to be balanced on two (admittedly excellent) player initiatives. And for completely different reasons (or perhaps not?): the overwhelming majority of EvE players stay in highSec or w-Space.

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.05 10:25:00 - [181] Originally by: Elena Laskova Malcanis This thread, regardless of what OP or I have said, like most PvP threads, contains contradictory information. The same happens if you ask questions in an ingame channel. And unless you're already an expert you're not able to select and use the good information, and reject the bad. The only consistent verifiable advice I've received about learning EvE PvP is to join EvE University and/or do the Agony Unleashed class. That's it. The whole lowSec/noSec game seems to be balanced on two (admittedly excellent) player initiatives. And for completely different reasons (or perhaps not?): the overwhelming majority of EvE players stay in highSec or w-Space. Personally testing 2 or 3 suggestions, even if mutually contradictory, is still hugely more efficient than personally testing whatever ideas may occurr. You can also look up the advice giver's combat record on battleclinic. Someone who spends a lot of time in 0.0 but has very few losses to gatecamps is more likely to be qualified to give advice on escaping gatecamps than someone who has only set foot outside empire once, and lost their ship doing it. Generally in threads like this you will get a couple of mischevious players making harmful suggestions but they're usually pretty obvious, even if only from the responses of other players. With respect to the specific query posed by the OP, I will asert that the MWD-Cloak trick is outrageously effective. (Check my battleclinic record for lo-sec losses if you like - I cant even remember losing anything in lo-sec last year. Maybe a pod to a smartbomber about this time last year). In fact I will further assert that MWD-Cloak largely unnecessary, since lo-sec camps are far rarer than popularly believed. I travel through lo-sec quite often, and I would estimate that I even see a single ship on overview less than 1 gate in 12. 90% of those get the hell away ASAP, since, like me, they're travelling. A few minutes worth with the map, and planning an alternate route to the obvious autopilot offering will almost always obviate the problem. Your point on documentation is well taken, but the fact is, EVE isn't not well documented. It would be a monumental task do so fully, and futile, since the document would be out of date before it was complete. And really, with respect to things like tactics, I dont think it's CCP's place to document such things. They should be for the players to evolve, learn and counter. Sometimes I suspect that the minimal documentation is actually a deliberate policy of CCP's to encourage player interaction. In any case, a person who would rather argue with those who are trying to help him than learn will never do well in EVE, no matter how well documented it was. Larkonis, who knows as much about living in lo-sec as anyone, gave the OP complete and correct advice early on, and the OP rejected it rather than admit that he was in any way at fault.
mirel yirrin Gallente Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.01.05 11:51:00 - [182] obvious troll/wrong forum ---------------------------------
Ti'anla	Posted - 2010.01.05 12:18:00 - [183] I don't know if anyone suggested this (sorry if so, I'm a bit rushed for time this moment so only read the first couple of pages) the way I tend to try to avoid gate camps is by using the map. It isn't 100% accurate, but you can do it in warp or whatever else.. Basically just focus the system map on your route, set the filter for Players in system in last 30 minutes, and if a system shows more than a few pilots there, switch over to the ships destroyed in the last thirty minutes filter. It isn't perfect, but at least gives warning signs if you're flying into a trap.
Platoon Sergeant	Posted - 2010.01.05 13:05:00 - [184] I jump into a 0.4 sec thread in my internet explorer with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky trolls about 15-20 posts down (clearly a troll thread). Still cloaked after the click, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my back button for a second and immediately close the browser. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately enraged, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Mouse moves to top left corner [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot go back as you are being troll by trolls. Never thought smacktalk would hold me up. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec General Discussion.) Btw: How do people successfully troll me within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ip to prevent my backing, correct?)
Ick Ickagami	Posted - 2010.01.05 13:17:00 - [185] Originally by: Platoon Sergeant I jump into a 0.4 sec thread in my internet explorer with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky trolls about 15-20 posts down (clearly a troll thread). Still cloaked after the click, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my back button for a second and immediately close the browser. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately enraged, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Mouse moves to top left corner [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot go back as you are being troll by trolls. Never thought smacktalk would hold me up. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec General Discussion.) Btw: How do people successfully troll me within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ip to prevent my backing, correct?) Simple. actually. You were obviously in a browser powered by an inferior processor, running a substandard browser routine, on a slow datastream, belaboring a fail point. You were countered by someone in a much better browser powered by a vastly superior processor possessing an infinipoint to counter your fail point, connected via latest-generation fiber optics. Forum PvP s best PvP
Malidinus Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.05 14:00:00 - [186] The issue is not so much about not being able to escape such a gate camp with a BC. The issue in my opinion is the EXTREME difference between 0.5 and 0.4 security, and pretty much none at all between 0.4 and 0.1. Even though it may be justified to keep the CONCORD away from low sec I still think that the gates and stations should have a lot more defence. Something like this (measured in Turret Strengths, an imaginary unit I have no value to give at this time): And since PvP is no my thing in EVE these descriptions will sound silly to many of you but maybe you'll get my meaning if you give it a try. 0.4 : 50 TS at gates (you practically need capital ships to keep camping these gates) 0.3: 25 TS at gates (A sizeable fleet of battleships should do the trick) 0.2: 12 TS at gates 0.1: 6 TS at gates 0.0 gates leading to low sec: 3 TS (More like an annoyance to campers than a real threat) You could still hunt mission runners and miners with ease in 0.4 but on the other hand people could more easily enter low sec and see what is happening in local. Right now you pretty much need an alt to scout the gate before you bring anything through the gates. Currently the security system is pretty much binary for new players and carebears. The system either has security or not. There is no gray area.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.05 15:25:00 - [187] Originally by: Malidinus Edited by: Malidinus on 05/01/2010 14:26:04 The issue is not so much about not being able to escape such a gate camp with a BC. The issue in my opinion is the EXTREME difference between 0.5 and 0.4 security, and pretty much none at all between 0.4 and 0.1. Even though it may be justified to keep the CONCORD away from low sec I still think that the gates and stations should have a lot more defence. Something like this (measured in Turret Strengths, an imaginary unit I have no value to give at this time): And since PvP is no my thing in EVE these descriptions will sound silly to many of you but maybe you'll get my meaning if you give it a try. 0.4 : 50 TS at gates (you practically need capital ships to keep camping these gates) 0.3: 25 TS at gates (A sizeable fleet of battleships should do the trick) 0.2: 12 TS at gates 0.1: 6 TS at gates 0.0 gates leading to low sec: 3 TS (More like an annoyance to campers than a real threat) You could still hunt mission runners and miners with ease in 0.4 but on the other hand people could more easily enter low sec and see what is happening in local. Right now you pretty much need an alt to scout the gate before you bring anything through the gates. Currently the security system is more or less binary for new players and carebears. The system either has security or not. There is no gray area. An alternative approach might be to make 0.5s a little less safe...
couger malthas Amarr Shiva	Posted - 2010.01.05 15:45:00 - [188] Edited by: couger malthas on 05/01/2010 15:46:19 Originally by: Platoon Sergeant I jump into a 0.4 sec thread in my internet explorer with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device. Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky trolls about 15-20 posts down (clearly a troll thread). Still cloaked after the click, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my back button for a second and immediately close the browser. But apparently that is not good enough. Within that time period, I am immediately enraged, so my cloaking device doesn't work. [ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Mouse moves to top left corner [ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot go back as you are being troll by trolls. Never thought smacktalk would hold me up. Shortly thereafter: Pop. Zero chance to escape. WTF... (Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec General Discussion.) Btw: How do people successfully troll me within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ip to prevent my backing, correct?) Is clearly a troll! He says he has internet explorer, should have DL'ed firefox, then you can dodge trolls like your in a covrt ;) _______________________________________________
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.05 19:50:00 - [189] Originally by: Malidinus Edited by: Malidinus on 05/01/2010 14:26:04 The issue is not so much about not being able to escape such a gate camp with a BC. The issue in my opinion is the EXTREME difference between 0.5 and 0.4 security, and pretty much none at all between 0.4 and 0.1. Even though it may be justified to keep the CONCORD away from low sec I still think that the gates and stations should have a lot more defence. Something like this (measured in Turret Strengths, an imaginary unit I have no value to give at this time): And since PvP is no my thing in EVE these descriptions will sound silly to many of you but maybe you'll get my meaning if you give it a try. 0.4 : 50 TS at gates (you practically need capital ships to keep camping these gates) 0.3: 25 TS at gates (A sizeable fleet of battleships should do the trick) 0.2: 12 TS at gates 0.1: 6 TS at gates 0.0 gates leading to low sec: 3 TS (More like an annoyance to campers than a real threat) You could still hunt mission runners and miners with ease in 0.4 but on the other hand people could more easily enter low sec and see what is happening in local. Right now you pretty much need an alt to scout the gate before you bring anything through the gates. Currently the security system is more or less binary for new players and carebears. The system either has security or not. There is no gray area. Concord is a pretty bad game mechanic in itself TBH. Why would you want to inflict them on low sec? That's just cruel. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Selrid Miamarr Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.05 20:25:00 - [190] Quote: Concord is a pretty bad game mechanic in itself TBH. Why would you want to inflict them on low sec? That's just cruel. I can't see it being a bad gameplay mechanic. Well, if the point is to guarantee a measure of safety for non-pvp pursuits. If you want no safety anywheres, then yes it's bad, but you are talking about a radically different game, and one I'm not the players would be up to handling.

FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.05 20:36:00 - [191] Edited by: FunzzeR on 05/01/2010 20:36:23 Originally by: Malidinus Edited by: Malidinus on 05/01/2010 14:26:04 The issue is not so much about not being able to escape such a gate camp with a BC. The issue in my opinion is the EXTREME difference between 0.5 and 0.4 security, and pretty much none at all between 0.4 and 0.1. Even though it may be justified to keep the CONCORD away from low sec I still think that the gates and stations should have a lot more defence. Something like this (measured in Turret Strengths, an imaginary unit I have no value to give at this time): And since PvP is no my thing in EVE these descriptions will sound silly to many of you but maybe you'll get my meaning if you give it a try. 0.4 : 50 TS at gates (you practically need capital ships to keep camping these gates) 0.3: 25 TS at gates (A sizeable fleet of battleships should do the trick) 0.2: 12 TS at gates 0.1: 6 TS at gates 0.0 gates leading to low sec: 3 TS (More like an annoyance to campers than a real threat) You could still hunt mission runners and miners with ease in 0.4 but on the other hand people could more easily enter low sec and see what is happening in local. Right now you pretty much need an alt to scout the gate before you bring anything through the gates. Currently the security system is more or less binary for new players and carebears. The system either has security or not. There is no gray area. Only if Concord/faction police gets appropriately weakened in .5 and .6 systems. After all they are only marginally safer than .4 (using your logic) PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.05 20:37:00 - [192] Originally by: Selrid Miamarr Quote: Concord is a pretty bad game mechanic in itself TBH. Why would you want to inflict them on low sec? That's just cruel. I can't see it being a bad gameplay mechanic. Well, if the point is to guarantee a measure of safety for non-pvp pursuits. If you want no safety anywheres, then yes it's bad, but you are talking about a radically different game, and one I'm not the players would be up to handling. It's bad for a few reasons the major of which is the way sec status and standings work and the way that system sec status works. Except that no one is asking for it to be removed ( he suggested that it "may be justified" implying that it was questionable in the first place). All I said was that the desire to inflict such a flawed mechanic on low sec was crazy, pointless, and works against the whole idea of lowsec. Just not in so many words. Further more the poster wants turret strength changed based on sec status. It already does, there are more turrets around higher security gates then there are in lower security ones, and in null sec there are none. Care-bears don't want to go into PvP, especially involuntarily. Happy-friendly lowsec-land wouldn't change that. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Joe Stalin Unknown-Entity Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.01.05 23:56:00 - [193] Edited by: Joe Stalin on 06/01/2010 00:06:42 If you want to fly through low sec solo, you might want to try doing it in a ship better setup to evade gate camps instead of a super slow battle cruiser. Solo flying through low sec is for people who actually understand what to do to survive. (hint hint, you probably should have hit the MWD and gone for the gate immediately when your initial cloak ran out... or better yet not fly BC's solo in low sec and start with something like an interceptor. Fly BC's in gangs or with a scout, unless you are an idiot) Oh, and cloaking in a freaking BC is usually not going to lead to your escape anyway... unless you somehow figured out how to fit a covert ops cloak. 10 blinky reds at a gate are probably going to figure out how to decloak you at freaking 12km off the gate. -- To escape gate camps: 1) Fly in a ship designed to escape them, like a fast frigate that is way harder to lock quickly than a battlecruiser 2) Fly a stealth bomber or other frigate that fits a covert ops cloak, and PRACTICE hitting warp followed by enabling your cloak as fast as you can without getting a warning that you did it too quickly (before the game starts your warp and does you initial decloak) 3) GET SOMEONE TO SCOUT YOU!!! If you want to fly a ship like a BC that almost anyone can nearly instantly lock, you should have someone in a fast ship checking ahead of you for gate camps... then simply don't fly your BC into the gate camp like a fool. You will rarely lose a ship to a gate camp if you follow any one of those 3
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.01.06 00:15:00 - [194] Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Wet Ferret Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. So you need to align and cloak in one swift motion basically, to give them no time to click on you. A little bad luck and latency will get you killed though... Tha is NOT true. When you have an yellow bracked you have already been locked. Try liek this.. get a stealth bobmer.. and a friend in acarrier. Ask him to start locking. SHould take almost 1 minute. You can cloak any time during that. Fact is BC is not a small ship and its easy to lock it in 1 seconds only. And Server lag sometimes is far larger than that so your cloak command might not arrive in time. That's how I learned it worked back in RMR when I was first messing around with cloaks. I haven't had time to test it yet but not in a big hurry either. If nothing else the paranoia has kept me safer over the years But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2010.01.06 11:18:00 - [195] Originally by: Milana Arkani Originally by: Jebidus Skari ... By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships. Or, fly an alt in to get killed first. Again, so idiotic... Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not. Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo. He didn't say you NEED a covops or a massive fleet at all. And he's not being idiotic, he's handing out perfectly appropriate advice. It is a standard technique to use alts to scout ahead. If you HAVE alts, and you're moving ships/cargo which is expensive enough that you feel you cannot afford to lose it, then its a bloody good idea to use them to scout, and if you don't then you're probably doing it wrong. Also, if you're any good at scouting your alt WONT die, but even if he does its better the alt die in a throwaway covops ship, than your main dying in something much more expensive. And, as it happens, the game is meant to be played whilst cooperating with other players, and in some case cooperation means having alts and cooperating with yourself. Half the playerbase does it. So whether or not its the way its meant to be played, it happens to be the way that it IS played. Basically, you're calling someone an idiot, when everything that you've typed makes you look like you're a noob who doesn't actually understand how the game works. Until such a time as you have educated yourself, you probably shouldnt mock people regarding a subject they clearly understand better than you. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Agnatar	Posted - 2010.01.06 12:34:00 - [196] Originally by: couger malthas If you got a problem with PVP or getting ganked there is more then one way to get out of it, 1 being stay in .5+ or going and playing HelloKitty Online. Be carefull with such advices. Do you remember what happened with Felucca after the introducing of Trammel? To EVE the same thing could happen soon (STO and so).
Another Whine Caldari Homicidal Minds	Posted - 2010.01.06 13:11:00 - [197] Epic troll 9/10 for length and ill bite YES YOU FAILED HARD a **ing freigther** can escape a low sec gate camp allthough with underhanded method, and no latency is not the problem YOU ARE and a little info 4 things make you not cloak : Yellow box, Red box, being within 2000meters of something, corrupt cache and setting files learn game mechanichs before coming on the forums and making stupid threads
Maximilian Black Techno-Wizard Industrial Technologies	Posted - 2010.01.06 21:28:00 - [198] Edited by: Maximilian Black on 06/01/2010 21:28:38 ... --- Maximilian Black Techno-Wizard Industrial Technologies


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