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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.01.23 16:37:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec.
Looks like they found the right target.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.23 16:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Biczkowski
Originally by: De'Veldrin
ITT: People with jobs and kids should not be playing EVE. CCP c/d?
SO FKNG TRUE!
LOL.
Wake me up at 3 am with a call to arms, and I'll happily log in and start shooting.
At the dumbass who woke me up. --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Tason Hyena
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:10:00 -
[63]
Problem is the EvE PvP system really isn't all that fun. If it was, people wouldn't care so much about being wardecced, or avoid lowsec or other conflict areas. All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.
If conflict in this game was fun, you'd see less carebearing. But it really isn't. It's dull when it's not heavily lopsided in favor of one opponent versus the other, it's hands off and abstract, and takes a lot of time to train the skills to actually contribute as opposed to being 5% dps on a killmail or a disposable tackler.
That's why people have such a negative attitude to PvP in this game. All the lolHTFU responses in the world wont change that, because the experience isn't all that fun, and that is why empire is packed.
To the OP:
Do you like the people in your corp? If you do, don't sweat the wardec and just concentrate on waiting it out. If they don't look like that good of a bunch, drop and go back to your npc corp.
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Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:16:00 -
[64]
But what exactly is wrong in 'just having a go at fighting'?
Why is it so abhorent/scary to some?
The more you have a go the less nerves you get and if someone wardecs you again you know what to do.
An empty jumpclone and a T1 cruiser/frigate isnt that hard is it. You'll look less silly having a go IMO.
As we found, sometimes you get lucky.
It's not like you are in lowsec and whilst fighting anyone else can come along and wade in.
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Swiftgaze
Elysium Holdings Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:18:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Swiftgaze on 23/01/2010 17:18:36
This topic is a prime example of why "combat pilots" are often even more annoying than miners.
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Epic DaSoto
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:20:00 -
[66]
I have to say that the way wardecs are carried out currently, it is one of the worst style of gameplay in Eve.
Generally the way this works is that a small group of powerful players (at least in skills and understanding game mechanics) will go after the guilds with the newest players. EVE University must have been at a constant wardec.
Then they sit in the home station, pop out to take out the weak, then return to the station when greater numbers show up. Then you have several hours of embargo while he waits for the other side to get bored. Then pops out and repeats.
Fixing station games would alleviate many of the complaints about wardecs. It's currently why I'm in an NPC guild. Standing watch for hours, keeping an eye on some 13 year old whose only goal is to stack his killmails with frigates is the worst gameplay I have ever seen in any game.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:21:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Tason Hyena All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.
It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:26:00 -
[68]
Rule no.1 of EveForum survival - Never use the words Guild or Quest.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:32:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 23/01/2010 17:33:21
Quote: I have to say that the way wardecs are carried out currently, it is one of the worst style of gameplay in Eve.
Worst? No. Could it use some work? Sure, there is always room for improvement.
Quote: Generally the way this works is that a small group of powerful players (at least in skills and understanding game mechanics) will go after the guilds with the newest players. EVE University must have been at a constant wardec.
First, you are over generalizing. Second, if you perhaps joined EVE University you'd be better informed. There are no guilds in EVE. You are having a flashback.
Quote: Then they sit in the home station, pop out to take out the weak, then return to the station when greater numbers show up. Then you have several hours of embargo while he waits for the other side to get bored. Then pops out and repeats.
Actually, this can be said for either side... war dec or no war dec.
Quote: Fixing station games would alleviate many of the complaints about wardecs. It's currently why I'm in an NPC guild. Standing watch for hours, keeping an eye on some 13 year old whose only goal is to stack his killmails with frigates is the worst gameplay I have ever seen in any game.
Station games could use some tweaks, but the current system is perfectly workable. Consider it using the terrain to your advantage in other games. There are no guilds in EVE, you are having another flashback. Next time, try to be smarter than the 13 year old. And if you can't beat him, ask him for help fixing your computer like the rest of us.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Danks
Caldari Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:33:00 -
[70]
Hey we're a bunch of carebears who got wardec'd, let's post with an alt on the forums I bet no one has ever done that before...
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Blackjack Turner
Caldari Inverted Awareness
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:38:00 -
[71]
The war dec system needs a way out for the corp that's getting decced. Plain and simple. Whether it's a fee to Concord, or switching to a contract based war dec system where the goals are defined and the target can choose to meet the demands or fight.
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hipeanut2006
Secondhand Smoke Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:44:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Epic DaSoto I have to say that the way wardecs are carried out currently, it is one of the worst style of gameplay in Eve.
Generally the way this works is that a small group of powerful players (at least in skills and understanding game mechanics) will go after the guilds with the newest players. EVE University must have been at a constant wardec.
Then they sit in the home station, pop out to take out the weak, then return to the station when greater numbers show up. Then you have several hours of embargo while he waits for the other side to get bored. Then pops out and repeats.
Fixing station games would alleviate many of the complaints about wardecs. It's currently why I'm in an NPC guild. Standing watch for hours, keeping an eye on some 13 year old whose only goal is to stack his killmails with frigates is the worst gameplay I have ever seen in any game.
lolworldofwarcraft ================= SecondHand Smoke - Pirate Coalition If you join us, you get cookies! |
Elena Laskova
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:46:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tason Hyena All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.
It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games.
Nearly everyone who's played EvE is a bona fide PvPer. After all, it just takes setting the lowest price for some item in the market and you qualify.
Combat participation is another matter, and an area high-SP players need to be careful with.
Does instantly running away every time local goes +1 count? Hiding in a blob in a medium-sized ship, hoping other players will be targetted before you are? Joining with 10 or 20 friends against a rookie ship?
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Tason Hyena
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Tippia It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games.
Some people do try it, and find that even on the winning side, it's not all what it's cracked up to be. Some people also have it forced on them, which is driving the subject of the Op's post.
Quote: But what exactly is wrong in 'just having a go at fighting'?
Why is it so abhorent/scary to some?
Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.
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Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:49:00 -
[75]
Still no one has answered this simple question.
What is so wrong with fighting back?
CCP has designed a system that if you wish to fight back, (even with low skills) that isnt that expensive or high risk.
Any corp worth its salt will have a stock of cheap disposable ships and hopefully organised jumpclones for its members. So what if you get blown up every time, you'll learn a lot of good stuff and certainly more than just doing nothing. If you do nothing you are just wasting your time and money. You might like it and a new side of Eve opens up.
So whats the problem? Too scared? Too proud? Too lazy?
I guess it's like those folks that never move out of their parents home.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:50:00 -
[76]
Apparently nobody bothers to wardec an omc...
Not worth the bother i guess, and could turn real sour...
I'd use hit and run tactics on em, find out if they have any missionrunners and/or miners and pester those. ________________________________________________
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Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:54:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Tason Hyena
Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.
Could be. I got blown up a few times when I started. Got jumped by a gang in Egg, took them about 5 seconds to blow me away.
Was a harsh wake up call but I went back and read the rulebook a bit more closely. In doing so I found this was a far more indepth gaming experience than it first appeared.
But thats usually a solo experience. Whats wrong in going down in flames with a gang of corp buddies by your side fighting for your corps honour?
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Elena Laskova
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Posted - 2010.01.23 18:11:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ohhh Matron Still no one has answered this simple question. What is so wrong with fighting back?
HighSec warDeccers carefully select easy targets, generally Corps with only rookie members.
They contain their risk by using a small number of active ships and a lot of remote reppers, which ensures trying to fight back is pointless, exceptionally boring, and teaches nothing. Naturally they use disposable Corps, so if they should get unlucky and attract the attention of some actual opposition they can disappear instantly.
This is the kind of thing that makes so many players delay trying combat. The majority of the fighting a rookie sees is boring one-sided fights with the very worst representatives of the sewer-rat playstyle.
It's a miracle that the parasites find any helpless targets to gank. Or perhaps it's thanks to all the lies propagated through the forums and popular inGame channels.
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Tason Hyena
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.23 18:17:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ohhh Matron
Originally by: Tason Hyena
Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.
Could be. I got blown up a few times when I started. Got jumped by a gang in Egg, took them about 5 seconds to blow me away.
Was a harsh wake up call but I went back and read the rulebook a bit more closely. In doing so I found this was a far more indepth gaming experience than it first appeared.
But thats usually a solo experience. Whats wrong in going down in flames with a gang of corp buddies by your side fighting for your corps honour?
Because throwing cheap ships against expensive ships only works when you have a lot of cheap ships, and nothing to lose when you get podded. It's also not very effective if the other people know what they are doing and you don't, which is one of the things you quickly learn doing it.
At first you'll do it for the lulz, but then the lulz will wear off, and you realize all you are doing is helping your wardeccer pad his killboard. You'll either face the choice of shipping up, training combat skills and getting a decent ship that can actually put up a fight, or avoiding the wardec.
Nothing is wrong with doing it, but chances are if you aren't actively pvping as a corp, it's just going to be a lot of pointless dying unless its an equally inexperienced foe. It's also giving the wardeccer what he wants, a lot of inexperienced targets and battles.
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Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2010.01.23 18:22:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Tason Hyena
Originally by: Ohhh Matron
Originally by: Tason Hyena
Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.
Could be. I got blown up a few times when I started. Got jumped by a gang in Egg, took them about 5 seconds to blow me away.
Was a harsh wake up call but I went back and read the rulebook a bit more closely. In doing so I found this was a far more indepth gaming experience than it first appeared.
But thats usually a solo experience. Whats wrong in going down in flames with a gang of corp buddies by your side fighting for your corps honour?
Because throwing cheap ships against expensive ships only works when you have a lot of cheap ships, and nothing to lose when you get podded. It's also not very effective if the other people know what they are doing and you don't, which is one of the things you quickly learn doing it.
At first you'll do it for the lulz, but then the lulz will wear off, and you realize all you are doing is helping your wardeccer pad his killboard. You'll either face the choice of shipping up, training combat skills and getting a decent ship that can actually put up a fight, or avoiding the wardec.
Nothing is wrong with doing it, but chances are if you aren't actively pvping as a corp, it's just going to be a lot of pointless dying unless its an equally inexperienced foe. It's also giving the wardeccer what he wants, a lot of inexperienced targets and battles.
So your tactic is to just sit there and moan rather then attempt to gain some useful experience and maybe some fun.
It's not like wardecs last for years. I bet most finish in a week.
If I was in an indy corp I wouldnt be worried about giving killmails to another corp. Thats a lame reason to do nothing.
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Tason Hyena
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.23 18:59:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Ohhh Matron So your tactic is to just sit there and do nothing then attempt to gain some useful experience and maybe some fun.
It's not like wardecs last for years. I bet most finish in a week. The more you do something the better you get (in most cases) so yes you might be terrible at PVP to begin with but you never know, you might find your roid munching corp mates might actually be quite good after a few days. So what if the other corp are looking for easy kills, thats what they expect so no surprise to them at first and also no pressure on you to excel. Tell them, "thanks for the learning excercise!" that might change their attitude.
If I was in an indy corp I wouldnt be worried about giving killmails to another corp. Thats a lame reason to do nothing
I think you missed the point. It's only fun for so long. After that you don't really get much out of it, learning or otherwise, unless you seriously decide to ship up and embrace PvP. If you are not willing to do that, feeding cheap ships to the wardeccer is a waste.
The "learning experience" only works so much. Then it depends on what the attitude is of your corp. Did people join you to fight, or to mine/mission? If the former, keep learning. If the latter, your goal probably is to make the wardec stop, and fighting can just perpetuate it at times.
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Sm1ley
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:11:00 -
[82]
Started to read this, and the first thing that struck me was it feels like everyone has misunderstood the topic.
1.Does it say that all pvp should be taken away? No. Does it say that wardec is horrible wrong? No. It simply implies that there are players in this game that enjoy playing the pve part. And that the gamemechanics doesn't support such players. Is it so totally impossible to share? FFS, you are still going to be able to pvp, wardec, extort, and all the other stuff you like. But against like-minded poeple.
2.The author wasn't whining. All I read was someone voicing what he/she thought would make the game better. All the whining comes from others who it sounds like they haven't given this a second thought.
3.Sitting around saying that you like blowing up weaker opponents just for the fun of it make you sound to me like you're an 14y old bullie who's picking on the younger kids. And last time I checked Eve i supposed to have a high middle-age. This kind of flaming is something I could have expected from youngsters playing WoW.
And sitting around marking words is just childish too. So what if someone said guild instead of corp? How about the ones without anything constructive just be quiet. Makes it easier for someone who actually has something to say to be heard.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:12:00 -
[83]
One of the best things CCP could to to improve the new player experience would be to make creating a corp take 1-2M skillpoints and 100 million ISK.
Then people would stop getting the false idea that creating a corp is supposed to be a new player activity.
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fuer0n
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:25:00 -
[84]
Edited by: fuer0n on 23/01/2010 19:27:26
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tason Hyena All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.
It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games.
can't be that hard to solve can it. no consequence pvp as soon as a character starts out in the learning missions.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:38:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/01/2010 19:38:06 To the OP...
There is actually a solution to your problem. If another corp in EVE is bothering your corp, you can actually declare war on them and start shooting their ships. That way you can teach them a lesson not to mess with you
See? EVE has already provided a solution for you!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Elena Laskova
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:41:00 -
[86]
@Malcanis
Discouraging rookies from forming Corps is one reasonable way to handle the current situation. Right now learning EvE is like learning to swim in a pool full of of Great White sharks, and groups of rookies splashing in the shallows just attract the sharks.
It's not my personal favorite though, because of the trust issue. A rookie has no way to find experienced players or Corps they can trust. And the ones with the best story are the most likely to be scumbags.
The easiest way for a rookie with no RL friends in the game can make some inGame friends is by spending some time doing basic stuff with other rookies. After a few hours mining veldspar, or 4 or 5 "L1 SoE arc" missions you've weeded out much of the trash, who won't invest so much time just to set up a gank.
I'd rather see mechanisms in place to encourage rookies to create short and medium term groups until they've got a feel for the game. AFAIK, all it would take is removing the two game mechanics that make rookies in highSec into tasty shark food: highSec warDecs and free (sometimes profitable) suicide ganking.
Of course this raises the question "why would a rookie bother with lowSec/noSec?". I suggest that problem needs to be addressed by EvE's experienced players, not its rookies.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:42:00 -
[87]
The problem is effort. Effort to read up on the game mechanics, to train with corpmates in simple stuff like tackling, to actually HAVE corpmates and not have them be zombies, effort to train some combat related stuff instead of trying to squeeze more isk/hour out of your low-effort gameplay.
Effort, lazyness and a "I can't be bothered to interact or understand, I want this new game to be EXACTLY the same as the game I left which I got bored of".
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:51:00 -
[88]
Personally I think World Of Warcraft is more up your street OP.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:08:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Elena Laskova @Malcanis
Discouraging rookies from forming Corps is one reasonable way to handle the current situation. Right now learning EvE is like learning to swim in a pool full of of Great White sharks, and groups of rookies splashing in the shallows just attract the sharks.
It's not my personal favorite though, because of the trust issue. A rookie has no way to find experienced players or Corps they can trust. And the ones with the best story are the most likely to be scumbags.
The easiest way for a rookie with no RL friends in the game can make some inGame friends is by spending some time doing basic stuff with other rookies. After a few hours mining veldspar, or 4 or 5 "L1 SoE arc" missions you've weeded out much of the trash, who won't invest so much time just to set up a gank.
I'd rather see mechanisms in place to encourage rookies to create short and medium term groups until they've got a feel for the game. AFAIK, all it would take is removing the two game mechanics that make rookies in highSec into tasty shark food: highSec warDecs and free (sometimes profitable) suicide ganking.
Of course this raises the question "why would a rookie bother with lowSec/noSec?". I suggest that problem needs to be addressed by EvE's experienced players, not its rookies.
A corp created by a smooth-tongued older player may be a scam or a failure. A corp created by a 10-day noob will be a failure as soon as it is tested by any kind of adversity, unless the new guy is truly exceptional.
As to why a new player would bother with 0.0... well all I can do is speak from personal experience. I went to 0.0 when I was about 10 weeks in and wished I'd gone sooner. One of the best friends I have in the game was recruited in to my corp when he was, I dunno 7-8 days in, and after a couple of practice excursions to lo-sec to learn about bookmarking, tracking, scanning, etc, I brought him in to 0.0 at about day 15. The first thing I got him to do was travel from Hi-sec to a station we still had access to somewhere in drone space so he could get a jump clone. took him, I dunno, 2 or 3 attempts but he made it, and got a couple of jump clones. I gave him a set of +2s for succeeding.
My experience from running a PvP corp was that recruiting new players straight out to 0.0 can work, but only a small fraction of players can hack it. Maybe 1 in 5, 1 in 6. As far as game mechanics and conditions go, there's no real reason why a new player can't move to 0.0 very early in his career. As far as player character, determination, motivation and initiative go... well that's another story.
The plain fact is, a lot of people are simply unable to bear the prospect of losing a ship to another player, even something so trivial as a T1 frigate. The psychological impact seems to be qualitatively different to losing a ship to NPCs. Dont ask me why, but it is.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Elena Laskova
Of course this raises the question "why would a rookie bother with lowSec/noSec?".
The real question from my viewpoint is "why wouldn't they?" But I susupect part of the problem here is other MMORPGs where as a newbie you have areas that are designed for you and then there are areas where, as a newbie, you are not supposed to go and it would be completely pointless for you to try. Eve, isn't like that, but it can look like it to someone used to other games when they first start playing.
When I started playing Eve, I hadn't played any other MMORPG's yet, so I never thought that way. I was in low sec almost from the very beginning, and it wasn't long before I was making incursions on my own into 0.0 . The only questions were: "How do I minimize the risk of being caught?" and "How do I minimize my losses if I do?"
Originally by: Akita T this whole game is just me playing with myself
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