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Tason Hyena
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:29:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Malcanis One of the best things CCP could to to improve the new player experience would be to make creating a corp take 1-2M skillpoints and 100 million ISK.
Then people would stop getting the false idea that creating a corp is supposed to be a new player activity.
It's not like that would be any better, that's what? A month's training and isk making? It's not likely they'll be able to mount any better of a defense, especially if that sp is put towards mining barges.
Quote: can't be that hard to solve can it. no consequence pvp as soon as a character starts out in the learning missions.
It could work, but you'd have to do something about when those newbies keep losing the PvP. Or at least they need to finally sanction the various learning corps in the game and point players to them, so they can learn. Your intro to PvP shouldn't be getting your frigate blown up in lowsec by three bc.
Quote: There is actually a solution to your problem. If another corp in EVE is bothering your corp, you can actually declare war on them and start shooting their ships. That way you can teach them a lesson not to mess with you
I think the OP doesn't want to fight, and knows of this mechanic. So your solution is pointless, and you are pretty thick. If this was an acceptable solution, we wouldn't have this post.
Quote: The problem is effort. Effort to read up on the game mechanics, to train with corpmates in simple stuff like tackling, to actually HAVE corpmates and not have them be zombies, effort to train some combat related stuff instead of trying to squeeze more isk/hour out of your low-effort gameplay.
Effort, lazyness and a "I can't be bothered to interact or understand, I want this new game to be EXACTLY the same as the game I left which I got bored of".
Maybe they really don't want to do PvP combat. Why does everyone want to force everyone to play the game a single way?
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Armoured C
Gallente Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:29:00 -
[92]
HTFU maybe ?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:58:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Tason Hyena
Originally by: Malcanis One of the best things CCP could to to improve the new player experience would be to make creating a corp take 1-2M skillpoints and 100 million ISK.
Then people would stop getting the false idea that creating a corp is supposed to be a new player activity.
It's not like that would be any better, that's what? A month's training and isk making? It's not likely they'll be able to mount any better of a defense, especially if that sp is put towards mining barges.
Dont be obtuse. I didn't mean that a character would need 1-2M SP to create a corp, I meant that the skills required to create a corp should require 1-2M SP.
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Noriko Rei
Venture Racing
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:59:00 -
[94]
I despise PvP, but to be quite honest, it's really easy to avoid. While I find the wardec mechanics to be a "pay to grief" system, wardecs are also easy to avoid. All you need is patience.
Just for kicks, try running out in a small, fast ship to dock up in a pirate sh*thole like Goinard or Rancer. When the hunters come to camp you, they'll be in for a rude surprise.
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Canary Man
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:01:00 -
[95]
Seriously, couldn't they get a few 1 man alt corps to war declare them so they hit the war declare limit? Or is there no longer a limit?
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Tason Hyena
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:09:00 -
[96]
Quote: Dont be obtuse. I didn't mean that a character would need 1-2M SP to create a corp, I meant that the skills required to create a corp should require 1-2M SP.
My mistake. You'd just wind up seeing less small corps overall and more npc members. That's probably the saner route anyways. Just set up a chat channel.
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Noriko Rei
Venture Racing
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:11:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Canary Man Seriously, couldn't they get a few 1 man alt corps to war declare them so they hit the war declare limit? Or is there no longer a limit?
The limit restricted the number of wars that Corp A could declare. There has never been a limit to the number of wars that Corp A can be involved in. Hypothetically speaking, every organization in the game could declare war on Corp A.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:15:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Canary Man Seriously, couldn't they get a few 1 man alt corps to war declare them so they hit the war declare limit? Or is there no longer a limit?
Doesn't matter, really: they can't do it because it's not allowed (but admittedly hard to prove). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Zirilia
Cube Zombie Consortium
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:45:00 -
[99]
well this prob could be solved by increasing the wardec fees for corps that has QH in highsec. i have never declared a war so i dont know the current fees but;
say that it would costs 500 mill isk and 3 mill units of veld as "payoff" to concord to start a wardec, and then the price would increase by 60 mill and 200k units of veld per week.
this would result in that corps would start to think twice before tossing out a random wardec in highsec due to high price and forcing them to do what they hate to do; mine. (unless they buy it on the marked but then the war would cost even more isk for them)
lowsec and 0.0 would keep whatever fees they have today as we all know that if you go there you are there to do pvp.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:51:00 -
[100]
Just to remind you all.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
THAT is EVE's intended nature! There's already a perfectly valid way for players to avoid wardec's, ie. just stay in the noob corp. If you want to group up without danger, there's nobody preventing you creating a chatgroup.
I've got a nagging feeling though that this thread is just a coverup for wanting to avoid the noob corp taxes without consequences...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2010.01.23 22:19:00 -
[101]
Yall's bein troelld... --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.01.23 22:21:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Sm1ley Started to read this, and the first thing that struck me was it feels like everyone has misunderstood the topic.
1.Does it say that all pvp should be taken away? No. Does it say that wardec is horrible wrong? No. It simply implies that there are players in this game that enjoy playing the pve part. And that the gamemechanics doesn't support such players. Is it so totally impossible to share? FFS, you are still going to be able to pvp, wardec, extort, and all the other stuff you like. But against like-minded poeple.
2.The author wasn't whining. All I read was someone voicing what he/she thought would make the game better. All the whining comes from others who it sounds like they haven't given this a second thought.
3.Sitting around saying that you like blowing up weaker opponents just for the fun of it make you sound to me like you're an 14y old bullie who's picking on the younger kids. And last time I checked Eve i supposed to have a high middle-age. This kind of flaming is something I could have expected from youngsters playing WoW.
And sitting around marking words is just childish too. So what if someone said guild instead of corp? How about the ones without anything constructive just be quiet. Makes it easier for someone who actually has something to say to be heard.
Everyone understood the topic.
OP was whining.
There are plenty of MMOs out there that cater to the type of people who dislike PVP and just want to hoard stuff. Very few out there can offer what EVE does. We can't share play styles. We like the game the way it is and we'll scream bloody murder every time someone wishes it to be changed. If every action in this game from every player wasn't interconnected in some way you may have a point. It is and you don't, however.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Elena Laskova
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:02:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Elena Laskova on 23/01/2010 23:02:45
Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.
His comments were accurate and appropriate but for one thing.
Like most rookies, OP didn't understand that experienced players would prefer it if there were no rookies in the game, and so they find this kind of irrational anti-rookie game mechanism to their liking.
But don't worry - by now OP will have realized that he's not welcome.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:07:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/01/2010 23:13:02
Originally by: Elena Laskova Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.
No, that's just you projecting. In fact, the OP is talking about how not even long-established corps and old players are safe from wardecs – the exact opposite of what you're claiming.
Quote: Like most rookies, OP didn't understand…
So you didn't note that the OP "avoided joining a corporation for so long" – meaning he isn't quite the rookie you're hoping he is – I take it? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Asuri Kinnes
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:10:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Pog Mahon Seriously OP have a cup of concrete and harden the feck up. There are a myriad of ways of dealing with a wardec and whining is one way to ensure you get a lot more of them. You have done yourself no favours.
I love it when people say HTFU... It makes me all wet!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing
Thats where I learned to HTFU. The rest of this **** is just noise.
Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino LOL...they have to FIND me first. As for being an "arena for PvP"...then why allow any PvE experiences at all. Just turn the whole game into a grand bloody arena?
It used to be that. Drew about 30K subs. CCP stated that EVE became "economically viable" about 50K subs (and no, I still don't have a link to that thread).
So CCP drew some lines on the map - but changed nothing else. Hi sec was *n*e*v*e*r* intended to be SAFE instead of "safer". When you get your mind around that, you will be well on your way to adapting to Eve.
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Mirsal
Amarr Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:12:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Mirsal on 23/01/2010 23:13:52
Originally by: Elena Laskova Edited by: Elena Laskova on 23/01/2010 23:02:45
Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.
His comments were accurate and appropriate but for one thing.
Like most rookies, OP didn't understand that experienced players would prefer it if there were no rookies in the game, and so they find this kind of irrational anti-rookie game mechanism to their liking.
But don't worry - by now OP will have realized that he's not welcome.
No, it's not at all about how long someone has been playing. Why would anyone have anything against someone for being new to the game? It's about their attitude. A newbie with the right attitude is by far preferable to an old player with yours. "Be not, oh Greeks, so very hostilely disposed towards the Barbarians, nor look with ill will on their opinions. For which of your institutions has not been derived from the Barbarians." |
swiftstick
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:15:00 -
[107]
um...... go back to an npc corp?
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Elena Laskova
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:21:00 -
[108]
HighSec Wardecs are bad for any no-combat Corp, and especially so for rookie Corps.
There is no corresponding game benefit.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:26:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Elena Laskova HighSec Wardecs are bad for any no-combat Corp, and especially so for rookie Corps.
No, it teaches them that they probably need to have add some combat expertise to the mix – a very beneficial lesson. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:31:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Elena Laskova HighSec Wardecs are bad for any no-combat Corp, and especially so for rookie Corps.
No, it teaches them that they probably need to have add some combat expertise to the mix û a very beneficial lesson.
Doesn't work that way. Eve is a game of focus. A half-carebear half-combat corp will not be appealing to either hardcore carebears or hardcore pvpers. It's much better to do things they way everyone else does -- corps specializing in grinding ISK, and corps specializing in grinding the corps grinding ISK.
But the real answer is: there's absolutely zero need for industry corps. A single alt can do enough industry to support 10-20 players. Haulers don't get taxed, so hauler alts can simply stay in NPC corps. If you want to solo rocks in highsec do you really need a corp?
And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |
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Dana Thei
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:38:00 -
[111]
High sec war decs, are here to stay. Droping them would unravel the core fabric that makes Eve vibrant.
You wont enjoy Eve long term, unless you not only tolerate the process of adapting, but eventual thrive on the challenges presented in game.
People game to avoid the consequence normally associated with real life, and are often shocked when a war dec wakes them up to the full reality of New Eden.
I remember feeling overwhelmed and mad as a noob receiving my 1st war dec greifing.
As a station camped noob, I made a mental note to eventually look into that Pvp thing.
Now I Fc and have ganked the crap out of several war dec pilots....
Its the station game rules and nuet repping that needs fixing not war decs.
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Hana Steelethorne
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:50:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: HisgSec warDec griefing
Does not exist.
Utter BS. So how does a no sec gang of thugs wardec a hisec corp? Hmmm?
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:56:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Hana Steelethorne
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: HisgSec warDec griefing
Does not exist.
Utter BS. So how does a no sec gang of thugs wardec a hisec corp? Hmmm?
Like so. But I suspect that this isn't actually what you're asking… ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.01.24 00:06:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Elena Laskova Edited by: Elena Laskova on 23/01/2010 23:02:45
Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.
His comments were accurate and appropriate but for one thing.
Like most rookies, OP didn't understand that experienced players would prefer it if there were no rookies in the game, and so they find this kind of irrational anti-rookie game mechanism to their liking.
But don't worry - by now OP will have realized that he's not welcome.
Are you saying that 2 corps containing some experienced players never wardec each other and fight in high sec and enjoy it?
I have to admit that it's been quite a long time since I lived in empire, but even in 0.0 I've had occasion to shoot people in high sec due to wardecs. The dynamics of empire combat is different than lowsec and 0.0 PVP and sometimes refreshing in small doses. Removing wardecs would directly diminish my overall gaming experience and I don't even live in empire.
Wardecs can affect anyone in the game. What kind of effect that is, is dependent on how the wardecced party behaves.
From my perspective it seems that nobody has a problem with rookies. Only that people don't have any inclination of treating rookies any differently in game than seasoned veterans. The result is normally the rookies getting steamrolled but I don't think it's due to any particular animosity resultant from their time in game.
The OP is welcome to play EVE. Just not try to change it to suit his tastes.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Metal Scraps
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Posted - 2010.01.24 00:31:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Dana Thei High sec war decs, are here to stay. Droping them would unravel the core fabric that makes Eve vibrant.
You wont enjoy Eve long term, unless you not only tolerate the process of adapting, but eventual thrive on the challenges presented in game.
People game to avoid the consequence normally associated with real life, and are often shocked when a war dec wakes them up to the full reality of New Eden.
I remember feeling overwhelmed and mad as a noob receiving my 1st war dec greifing.
As a station camped noob, I made a mental note to eventually look into that Pvp thing.
Now I Fc and have ganked the crap out of several war dec pilots....
Its the station game rules and nuet repping that needs fixing not war decs.
Think most can agree that wardecks should stay as an option for removing unwanted competition whatever that may be.
That said I think that EVE have evolved enough to say that the fee of 2 million for wardecking a corp is catering to "Killmail boosting" at the very least the fees should be raised quite a bit .
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Sm1ley
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Posted - 2010.01.24 00:43:00 -
[116]
Well first off, what are people intrested in pvp doing in highsec? the odds of getting good combat (because that is what I assume you are after) should be smaller considering the ratio between new and experienced players. It looks more like a slaughterhouse to me. What you wan't isn't pvp, you want to mess with other people. With as little risk as possible. Word that comes to mind is cowardice.
Lot's of people are saying play another game. I don't want to play another game I like Eve, and the things I like right now is not the pvp part. It's everything else. And yes, it is a big part of the game, connected to everything else. But there has to be a way to keep everyone happy, not just the ones who screams the loudest.
Not everyone can learn to swim by getting thrown out in the deep end av the pool. Some of us need to take it step by step, and it doesn't help having a group of people pushing you under the water all the time. Most of us will more likely than not give up. That way you loose alot of new players, and what will you say then? That you are better off, since they couldn't learn fast enough they are lousy?
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Wartime Profiteer
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Posted - 2010.01.24 00:43:00 -
[117]
This has put on several pages since I first looked in during the most recent service interruption.
I have a suggestion for the PVUer (Player versus Unarmed) who said something like, "Why don't you grow a pair and shoot back?"
Why don't YOU grow a pair and shoot at something that CAN shoot back?
This may come as a surprise to many laser tag players, but this game just won an award for "Best Economy". The game is vastly developed for those who choose the monopoly style of play.
I think everyone has the right to use their subscription to play any part of the game they choose. Plenty of people want to shoot each other - Plenty of people want to shoot at those who cannot back (WOW... 1220 hulks destroyed by gangs of PVUers, all yelling SHOOT BACK, SHOOT BACK" I'm sure.
How about a contest like.. BC vs BC with no additional parties involved and the laser taggers cannot be from the same corp? Gee, a fair fight? How novel, but that will never happen.
So go ahead and keep on showing everyone how really tough you internet bullies are by shooting the defenseless. Going out unarmed in a setting where we can get blown away is not anywhere near as brave as ganja ganking unarmed mining ships.
And until you start sending me plexes, I'll keep on playing the game the way I want to play it.
If the game is based on PvP - how have I enjoyed for these years without doing any PvP? The only time I really give any thought to quitting is during the times when I've been war dec'd. OOh I've got a plan and I continue to play during the dec'd time and have never lost anything bigger than a shuttle, never a lost single implant and ABSOLUTELY NEVER PAID A RANSOM, but I ask myself, "Why are you putting up with a game where even the management wants you to fail?"
It would be interesting if CCP designated one - just one of all the systems out there where fighting is ok - JUST ONE system where NO fighting, no frig v frig plus buddies can tips, no war decs - JUST ONE system where the existing ability to enforce peace was used. As a game that was originality supposed to evolve over time, it seems like CCP might just find a place for ONE, JUST ONE system with no fighting allowed. JUST ONE! And see how many paying customers might go there. JUST ONE - could that rip the core fabric of the game?
Ok, go ahead and call me chicken and dare me - double dog dare me to cross lines, or go out to null, or whatever childish rant you may have about the way I CHOOSE to play the subscriptions I'm paying for.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.01.24 00:45:00 -
[118]
Even though i didn't like them much at the time, threads like these make me wish for the return of the Privateers from back in late 2006/early 2007.
Originally by: Akita T this whole game is just me playing with myself
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.01.24 00:55:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 24/01/2010 00:56:54
Originally by: Wartime Profiteer This has put on several pages since I first looked in during the most recent service interruption.
I have a suggestion for the PVUer (Player versus Unarmed) who said something like, "Why don't you grow a pair and shoot back?"
Why don't YOU grow a pair and shoot at something that CAN shoot back?
This may come as a surprise to many laser tag players, but this game just won an award for "Best Economy". The game is vastly developed for those who choose the monopoly style of play.
I'm one of the people who wrote that on the first page of the thread, and guess what? I've never participated in high sec wars (I've been in 0.0 alliances that were declared on, but I was too busy fighting in 0.0 at the time to care), and certainly not against any soft targets. And as for economy, this is my industrial/trading alt I'm writing with. I know all about the economic side of Eve.
The difference between players like me and players like you, is that we can do most things in the game while you only know anything about one tiny part of it.
Originally by: Akita T this whole game is just me playing with myself
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Wartime Profiteer
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Posted - 2010.01.24 01:02:00 -
[120]
It may be a tiny part, but it is the part I like. Is there some requirement to play the parts you don't like?
I'm glad you can find joy in so many parts, happy you are able to play the game you want to play.
I'm happy to play the part I want to play and no griefer is going to force me play it any other way. I'm happy you are not a griefer. The difference between you and I is that you want to get all the parts your subscription is paying for and I'm perfectly happy with a just a slice - never been very economical anyway. Enjoy the game and fly safe. I will.
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