Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Lady Aja

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buhu

and 1st

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Originally by: Marchocias

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Understand the game!

Thats an order.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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...and lo 2 days after I join...

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

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On that note, EVE is geared more towards criminal activity. Carebears really are outgunned both ingame and in the CCP brainstorming sessions.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Akita T

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* Scamming and unethical behaviour some would consider griefing is not only allowed, it is encouraged and rewarded by the game mechanics.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Sumelar

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Second, it's not tolerated in real life, but it still goes on every day, everywhere.

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion?

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Originally by: Minchurra

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Whining as intended.

Forcing a CTA at 0300 is a damn good way of finding out who your trustworthy members are.. kick everyone else.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys. If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3. If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE. You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible...where and whenever possible.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys. If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3. If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE. You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible...where and whenever possible.

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Originally by: Swiftgaze

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..............I don't go to the cops either, give them 20 bucks and tell them that I want to beat the crap out of my neighbour everytime he leaves the house for the next week.............

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3.

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Quote:

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You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

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Quote:

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Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible.

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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Edited by: Ohhh Matron on 23/01/2010 14:03:37
Just have a go. We had a three man corp once and got decced by a small corp who wanted to ransom our POS. In the 24 hour grace period I took down the labs and removed most of the fuel from the POS just leaving it with shield hardners, a couple of damps and some rail batteries.

In the end we decided even though we had zero pvp experience to 'have a go'. So we fitted up a cheap T1 Megathron and a couple of drakes and went in to take on the guys taking down our POS.

Over the course of that evening they lost three battleships and we lost none AND we got to take down our POS and tuck it away safe. We didnt smack and the other guys were actually very good about it, no hard feelings and all that. They even said that they only wanted 100million as a ransom.

Was the best night of playing Eve we'd had. I didnt sleep much that night I had so much adrenaline pumping.

Get a load of T1 cruisers and frigs fitted out with loot/junk (I take it your corp has a cheap ship hanger with loads of cheap loot modules) and get into some jump clones and have some no risk fun.

It taught us a lot and it brought us closer as a corp. Sometimes a percived problem can be a blessing in disguise.

Also teaches you that having all the mineral processing skills to level 5 is worth jack if you cant field 5 drones or a HAM launcher.

Nothnig worse than being in a indy corp and getting into a tight spot and asking "ok who can fit a webber or scram?" silence.....

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Quote:

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A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one.
- Aristotle

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys. If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3. If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE. You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible...where and whenever possible.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys. If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3. If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE. You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible...where and whenever possible.

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys. If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3. If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE. You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible...where and whenever possible.

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Originally by: Babel

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Edited by: Babel on 23/01/2010 14:11:14

Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE

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When you want to chill out and relax in a peaceful pastoral environment, do you similarly dress up in protective gear, take some fake guns and have a picnic in woodland used for Paintball?

I think that's a fair analogy ... The primary purpose of EVE is an arena for PvP, there's levels of 'security', but noone has a 100% Opt-Out option :)

EDIT: And yes, most likely this thread will spur a number of people to deliberately follow you with wardecs in an attempt to clarify for you exactly what EVE is ....

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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LOL...they have to FIND me first. As for being an "arena for PvP"...then why allow any PvE experiences at all. Just turn the whole game into a grand bloody arena?

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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LOL...they have to FIND me first.

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Quote:

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Originally by: Babel

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Edited by: Babel on 23/01/2010 14:11:14

Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE

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When you want to chill out and relax in a peaceful pastoral environment, do you similarly dress up in protective gear, take some fake guns and have a picnic in woodland used for Paintball?

I think that's a fair analogy ... The primary purpose of EVE is an arena for PvP, there's levels of 'security', but noone has a 100% Opt-Out option :)

EDIT: And yes, most likely this thread will spur a number of people to deliberately follow you with wardecs in an attempt to clarify for you exactly what EVE is ....

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LOL...they have to FIND me first. As for being an "arena for PvP"...then why allow any PvE experiences at all. Just turn the whole game into a grand bloody arena?

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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EvE is neither a PvP game

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Quote:

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HisgSec warDec griefing

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Quote:

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EvE being EvE, the first thing that happened was anew class of griefing was invented.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Denial isn't the same as a counter argument.

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Originally by: Minchurra

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Whining as intended.

Forcing a CTA at 0300 is a damn good way of finding out who your trustworthy members are.. kick everyone else.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Denial isn't the same as a counter argument.

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So why are you doing it? Why do you refuse to see the very apparent PvP nature that is inherent in every last thing in the game and drives everything that happens?

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Edited by: Elena Laskova on 23/01/2010 15:35:53

EvE is neither a PvP game nor a war game.

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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If you define PvP as including reducing your market prices by 0.01 ISK several times a day, then EvE is a PvP game. if you're intrested in combat, not so much.

HighSec warDecs are a game disadvantage targeting rookies, and barely affecting exprienced players.

EvE is surely the only game where well-established players are happy about such things. I should start a new topic "How can we keep new players out of EvE?". I'm sure it would be immensely popular.

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Originally by: De'Veldrin

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ITT: People with jobs and kids should not be playing EVE. CCP c/d?

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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If you define PvP as including reducing your market prices by 0.01 ISK several times a day, then EvE is a PvP game. if you're intrested in combat, not so much.

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Quote:

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HighSec warDecs are a game disadvantage targeting rookies, and barely affecting exprienced players.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec.

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Originally by: Biczkowski

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Originally by: De'Veldrin

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ITT: People with jobs and kids should not be playing EVE. CCP c/d?

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SO FKNG TRUE!

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.

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Quote:

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I have to say that the way wardecs are carried out currently, it is one of the worst style of gameplay in Eve.

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Quote:

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Generally the way this works is that a small group of powerful players (at least in skills and understanding game mechanics) will go after the guilds with the newest players. EVE University must have been at a constant wardec.

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Quote:

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Then they sit in the home station, pop out to take out the weak, then return to the station when greater numbers show up. Then you have several hours of embargo while he waits for the other side to get bored. Then pops out and repeats.

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Quote:

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Fixing station games would alleviate many of the complaints about wardecs. It's currently why I'm in an NPC guild. Standing watch for hours, keeping an eye on some 13 year old whose only goal is to stack his killmails with frigates is the worst gameplay I have ever seen in any game.

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Originally by: Epic DaSoto

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I have to say that the way wardecs are carried out currently, it is one of the worst style of gameplay in Eve.

Generally the way this works is that a small group of powerful players (at least in skills and understanding game mechanics) will go after the guilds with the newest players. EVE University must have been at a constant wardec.

Then they sit in the home station, pop out to take out the weak, then return to the station when greater numbers show up. Then you have several hours of embargo while he waits for the other side to get bored. Then pops out and repeats.

Fixing station games would alleviate many of the complaints about wardecs. It's currently why I'm in an NPC guild. Standing watch for hours, keeping an eye on some 13 year old whose only goal is to stack his killmails with frigates is the worst gameplay I have ever seen in any game.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.

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It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games.

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Originally by: Tippia

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It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games.

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Quote:

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But what exactly is wrong in 'just having a go at fighting'?

Why is it so abhorent/scary to some?

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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Still no one has answered this simple question.
What is so wrong with fighting back?

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.

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Could be. I got blown up a few times when I started. Got jumped by a gang in Egg, took them about 5 seconds to blow me away.

Was a harsh wake up call but I went back and read the rulebook a bit more closely. In doing so I found this was a far more indepth gaming experience than it first appeared.

But thats usually a solo experience. Whats wrong in going down in flames with a gang of corp buddies by your side fighting for your corps honour?

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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Because people probably have been conditioned by their previous PvP experiences, often as a noob in lowsec, that PvP is something to run away from.

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Could be. I got blown up a few times when I started. Got jumped by a gang in Egg, took them about 5 seconds to blow me away.

Was a harsh wake up call but I went back and read the rulebook a bit more closely. In doing so I found this was a far more indepth gaming experience than it first appeared.

But thats usually a solo experience. Whats wrong in going down in flames with a gang of corp buddies by your side fighting for your corps honour?

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Because throwing cheap ships against expensive ships only works when you have a lot of cheap ships, and nothing to lose when you get podded. It's also not very effective if the other people know what they are doing and you don't, which is one of the things you quickly learn doing it.

At first you'll do it for the lulz, but then the lulz will wear off, and you realize all you are doing is helping your wardeccer pad his killboard. You'll either face the choice of shipping up, training combat skills and getting a decent ship that can actually put up a fight, or avoiding the wardec.

Nothing is wrong with doing it, but chances are if you aren't actively pvping as a corp, it's just going to be a lot of pointless dying unless its an equally inexperienced foe. It's also giving the wardeccer what he wants, a lot of inexperienced targets and battles.

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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So your tactic is to just sit there and do nothing then attempt to gain some useful experience and maybe some fun.

It's not like wardecs last for years. I bet most finish in a week. The more you do something the better you get (in most cases) so yes you might be terrible at PVP to begin with but you never know, you might find your roid munching corp mates might actually be quite good after a few days. So what if the other corp are looking for easy kills, thats what they expect so no surprise to them at first and also no pressure on you to excel. Tell them, "thanks for the learning excercise!" that might change their attitude.

If I was in an indy corp I wouldnt be worried about giving killmails to another corp. Thats a lame reason to do nothing

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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All the responses are just drinking the CCP koolaid without ever looking at why so many people stay in NPC corps or have attitudes like the OP.

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It would believe that more if I hadn't seen so many people reject the thought of PvP without ever having tried it, based on preconceptions, rumours and completely irrelevant experiences from unrelated games.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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@Malcanis

Discouraging rookies from forming Corps is one reasonable way to handle the current situation. Right now learning EvE is like learning to swim in a pool full of of Great White sharks, and groups of rookies splashing in the shallows just attract the sharks.

It's not my personal favorite though, because of the trust issue. A rookie has no way to find experienced players or Corps they can trust. And the ones with the best story are the most likely to be scumbags.

The easiest way for a rookie with no RL friends in the game can make some inGame friends is by spending some time doing basic stuff with other rookies. After a few hours mining veldspar, or 4 or 5 "L1 SoE arc" missions you've weeded out much of the trash, who won't invest so much time just to set up a gank.

I'd rather see mechanisms in place to encourage rookies to create short and medium term groups until they've got a feel for the game. AFAIK, all it would take is removing the two game mechanics that make rookies in highSec into tasty shark food: highSec warDecs and free (sometimes profitable) suicide ganking.

Of course this raises the question "why would a rookie bother with lowSec/noSec?". I suggest that problem needs to be addressed by EvE's experienced players, not its rookies.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Of course this raises the question "why would a rookie bother with lowSec/noSec?".

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Malcanis

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One of the best things CCP could to to improve the new player experience would be to make creating a corp take 1-2M skillpoints and 100 million ISK.

Then people would stop getting the false idea that creating a corp is supposed to be a new player activity.

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can't be that hard to solve can it. no consequence pvp as soon as a character starts out in the learning missions.

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There is actually a solution to your problem. If another corp in EVE is bothering your corp, you can actually declare war on them and start shooting their ships. That way you can teach them a lesson not to mess with you

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The problem is effort. Effort to read up on the game mechanics, to train with corpmates in simple stuff like tackling, to actually HAVE corpmates and not have them be zombies, effort to train some combat related stuff instead of trying to squeeze more isk/hour out of your low-effort gameplay.

Effort, lazyness and a "I can't be bothered to interact or understand, I want this new game to be EXACTLY the same as the game I left which I got bored of".

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Originally by: Tason Hyena

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Originally by: Malcanis

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One of the best things CCP could to to improve the new player experience would be to make creating a corp take 1-2M skillpoints and 100 million ISK.

Then people would stop getting the false idea that creating a corp is supposed to be a new player activity.

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It's not like that would be any better, that's what? A month's training and isk making? It's not likely they'll be able to mount any better of a defense, especially if that sp is put towards mining barges.

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Dont be obtuse. I didn't mean that a character would need 1-2M SP to create a corp, I meant that the skills required to create a corp should require 1-2M SP.

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Originally by: Canary Man

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Seriously, couldn't they get a few 1 man alt corps to war declare them so they hit the war declare limit? Or is there no longer a limit?

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Originally by: Canary Man

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Seriously, couldn't they get a few 1 man alt corps to war declare them so they hit the war declare limit? Or is there no longer a limit?

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...

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Originally by: Sm1ley

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Started to read this, and the first thing that struck me was it feels like everyone has misunderstood the topic.

1.Does it say that all pvp should be taken away? No. Does it say that wardec is horrible wrong? No. It simply implies that there are players in this game that enjoy playing the pve part. And that the gamemechanics doesn't support such players. Is it so totally impossible to share? FFS, you are still going to be able to pvp, wardec, extort, and all the other stuff you like. But against like-minded poeple.

2.The author wasn't whining. All I read was someone voicing what he/she thought would make the game better. All the whining comes from others who it sounds like they haven't given this a second thought.

3.Sitting around saying that you like blowing up weaker opponents just for the fun of it make you sound to me like you're an 14y old bullie who's picking on the younger kids. And last time I checked Eve i supposed to have a high middle-age. This kind of flaming is something I could have expected from youngsters playing WoW.

And sitting around marking words is just childish too. So what if someone said guild instead of corp? How about the ones without anything constructive just be quiet. Makes it easier for someone who actually has something to say to be heard.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.

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Like most rookies, OP didn't understand…

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Originally by: Pog Mahon

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Seriously OP have a cup of concrete and harden the feck up. There are a myriad of ways of dealing with a wardec and whining is one way to ensure you get a lot more of them. You have done yourself no favours.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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LOL...they have to FIND me first. As for being an "arena for PvP"...then why allow any PvE experiences at all. Just turn the whole game into a grand bloody arena?

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Edited by: Elena Laskova on 23/01/2010 23:02:45

Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.

His comments were accurate and appropriate but for one thing.

Like most rookies, OP didn't understand that experienced players would prefer it if there were no rookies in the game, and so they find this kind of irrational anti-rookie game mechanism to their liking.

But don't worry - by now OP will have realized that he's not welcome.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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HighSec Wardecs are bad for any no-combat Corp, and especially so for rookie Corps.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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HighSec Wardecs are bad for any no-combat Corp, and especially so for rookie Corps.

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No, it teaches them that they probably need to have add some combat expertise to the mix û a very beneficial lesson.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Quote:

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HisgSec warDec griefing

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Does not exist.

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Originally by: Hana Steelethorne

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Originally by: Tippia

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Quote:

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HisgSec warDec griefing

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Does not exist.

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Utter BS.
So how does a no sec gang of thugs wardec a hisec corp? Hmmm?

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Edited by: Elena Laskova on 23/01/2010 23:02:45

Gorefacer: OP pointed out that highSec wardecs penalize rookies, and benefit only gankers. Experienced players are unaffected.

His comments were accurate and appropriate but for one thing.

Like most rookies, OP didn't understand that experienced players would prefer it if there were no rookies in the game, and so they find this kind of irrational anti-rookie game mechanism to their liking.

But don't worry - by now OP will have realized that he's not welcome.

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Originally by: Dana Thei

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High sec war decs, are here to stay. Droping them would unravel the core fabric that makes Eve vibrant.

You wont enjoy Eve long term, unless you not only tolerate the process of adapting, but eventual thrive on the challenges presented in game.

People game to avoid the consequence normally associated with real life, and are often shocked when a war dec wakes them up to the full reality of New Eden.

I remember feeling overwhelmed and mad as a noob receiving my 1st war dec greifing.

As a station camped noob, I made a mental note to eventually look into that Pvp thing.

Now I Fc and have ganked the crap out of several war dec pilots....

Its the station game rules and nuet repping that needs fixing not war decs.

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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This has put on several pages since I first looked in during the most recent service interruption.

I have a suggestion for the PVUer (Player versus Unarmed) who said something like, "Why don't you grow a pair and shoot back?"

Why don't YOU grow a pair and shoot at something that CAN shoot back?

This may come as a surprise to many laser tag players, but this game just won an award for "Best Economy". The game is vastly developed for those who choose the monopoly style of play.

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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The difference between players like me and players like you, is that we can do most things in the game while you only know anything about one tiny part of it.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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HighSec Wardecs are bad for any no-combat Corp, and especially so for rookie Corps.

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No, it teaches them that they probably need to have add some combat expertise to the mix û a very beneficial lesson.

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Doesn't work that way. Eve is a game of focus. A half-carebear half-combat corp will not be appealing to either hardcore carebears or hardcore pvpers. It's much better to do things they way everyone else does -- corps specializing in grinding ISK, and corps specializing in grinding the corps grinding ISK.

But the real answer is: there's absolutely zero need for industry corps. A single alt can do enough industry to support 10-20 players. Haulers don't get taxed, so hauler alts can simply stay in NPC corps. If you want to solo rocks in highsec do you really need a corp?

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Originally by: Sm1ley

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Edited by: Sm1ley on 24/01/2010 00:46:54
Well first off, what are people intrested in pvp doing in highsec? the odds of getting good combat (because that is what I assume you are after) should be smaller considering the ratio between new and experienced players. It looks more like a slaughterhouse to me. What you wan't isn't pvp, you want to mess with other people. With as little risk as possible. Word that comes to mind is cowardice.

Lot's of people are saying play another game. I don't want to play another game I like Eve, and the things I like right now is not the pvp part. It's everything else. And yes, it is a big part of the game, connected to everything else. But there has to be a way to keep everyone happy, not just the ones who screams the loudest.

Not everyone can learn to swim by getting thrown out in the deep end av the pool. Some of us need to take it step by step, and it doesn't help having a group of people pushing you under the water all the time. Most of us will more likely than not give up. That way you loose alot of new players, and what will you say then? That you are better off, since they couldn't learn fast enough they are lousy?

ps. just read what the post below me wrote just after I posted. I can say I agree to 100% d.s.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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It may be a tiny part, but it is the part I like. Is there some requirement to play the parts you don't like?

I'm glad you can find joy in so many parts, happy you are able to play the game you want to play.

I'm happy to play the part I want to play and no griefer is going to force me play it any other way. I'm happy you are not a griefer. The difference between you and I is that you want to get all the parts your subscription is paying for and I'm perfectly happy with a just a slice - never been very economical anyway. Enjoy the game and fly safe. I will.

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Originally by: Akita T

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this whole game is just me playing with myself

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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(WOW... 1220 hulks destroyed in the Hulkageddon contest by gangs of PVUers, all yelling SHOOT BACK, SHOOT BACK" I'm sure.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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stuff

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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No, I'm not quitting, and no, none of you can have my stuff. Some good and valid points have been raised here on both sides. The heart of the matter is that any pack of griefers afflicted with ennui can come swarming out of nosec and issue a wardec against hisec/non-PvP corps for no other reason than to assuage their boredom. And it is getting out of hand. PvP'ers have the whole of nosec to in which to vent their aggression on each other. That they regularly bring this into hisec and direct it at players and corps they are too well aware lack the wherewithal to put up a substantial and costly fight for the aggressors speaks volumes about their intent...To cause havoc for no other reason than they can.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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When I was in combat while in the Army

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Here we go around the circle and back to "Eve = PvP - like it or leave it and stop your f@@@ing whining". That is how this discussion has started and ended for years. I wonder why CCP even used a market instead of just issuing "loyalty points" based on killboard entries which can be exchanged for the tools of war. I wonder why they created this vast and intriquing market place - the one that just won an award for being the BEST! which makes this game the THE game for industrialists.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Can't play Eve without PvP: Gee, how have I been able to enjoy myself, except when being dec'd, for the last four years. In fact, how have the thousands of others like me done it until they got tired of being dec'd by a new set of noob griefers - most of whom will have left the game long before their war targets finally get tired of it and pack it in. Only the last of a dozen corps dec'ing me in the previous two years is still active, and I see them logging on with less and less frequencty.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Plenty of other games where I can be an industrialist, why don't I leave?: Plenty of other games where you can shoot each other, but I'm not trying to control how you play the game or if you even play the game. I'd like the same courtesy - I won't ask you to play the game the way I play and you give me the same courtesy. You don't have to be an industrialist and I don't have to be a PvPer. Play the game, shoot a lot of willing targets. And if you decide your pleasure only comes when you are ruining the game experience of others, at least admit it.
You seem to be missing the point: It's not the pvp in and of itself that sets this game apart, it's the fact that there needn't be consent for pvp to happen. While I'd be the first to admit that there is a certain pleasure in knowing you just ruined someone's day, it's not necessarily just because you like being an ass. See, in any game, just as IRL, there are people who really, really **** me off. I like EVE, because in EVE I have the option of shooting them in the face until it stops being funny. In other games, if someone acts like an annoying 12 year old, the most you can do is mute him, and that absolutely drives me nuts. As for the whole you-do-your-thing-I-do-mine argument, it makes no sense, because in order for me to do what I enjoy doing I require the ability to shoot people who do not always want to be shot. I like that about eve, and so does CCP, so as I said before; if you like eve but you don't like pvp, it's time you realized you don't like eve.

Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Thousands and thousands of systems where everyone can do war, every single system can have war... One - JUST ONE system with no war, no can flipping, no fighting - do it for the length of just one expansion and see how it goes.

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No. Non-consensual PVP is one of the big things that makes the game what it is. Stop trying to ruin the game by turning it into something it's not. Games may evolve but trying to go with an eve without pvp is no longer evolving, you're comparing apples and oranges.

Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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more stuff

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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I wonder why CCP even used a market instead of just issuing "loyalty points" based on killboard entries which can be exchanged for the tools of war. I wonder why they created this vast and intriquing market place - the one that just won an award for being the BEST! which makes this game the THE game for industrialists.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Just a couple of rejoinders: Single person corp and have not shot or even returned fire since January 2006 & have been war dec'd a dozen times in last two years. Don't chat in local, don't bump others in a crowd and enter nothing in my character's Bios - One guy told me he dec'd me because of my empty Bio.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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The heart of the matter is that any pack of griefers afflicted with ennui can come swarming out of nosec and issue a wardec against hisec/non-PvP corps for no other reason than to assuage their boredom.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Here we go around the circle and back to "Eve = PvP - like it or leave it and stop your f@@@ing whining". That is how this discussion has started and ended for years. I wonder why CCP even used a market instead of just issuing "loyalty points" based on killboard entries which can be exchanged for the tools of war. I wonder why they created this vast and intriquing market place - the one that just won an award for being the BEST! which makes this game the THE game for industrialists.

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Quote:

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Can't play Eve without PvP: Gee, how have I been able to enjoy myself

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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How about if a war dec made in hi-sec against a corp in hi-sec that fighting can only occur if it is accepted as mutual?

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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When is CCP going to address the issue of wardecs for no other purpose that extortion? If folks want to play that in lo/no sec...that's their choice. It should not be an option in hi sec. Just as the law does not tolerate extortionists in real life...They should not be tolerated by Concord in hi sec.

Wardec's are why I avoided joining a corporation for so long...and lo 2 days after I join a medium sized, long established corp...a gang of gonadally deficient twits files a wardec. I know CCP wants to push players into corps...but this artificial and arbitrary fostering of unnecessary conflict seems counter productive in that regard.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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No, I'm not quitting, and no, none of you can have my stuff. Some good and valid points have been raised here on both sides. The heart of the matter is that any pack of griefers afflicted with ennui can come swarming out of nosec and issue a wardec against hisec/non-PvP corps for no other reason than to assuage their boredom. And it is getting out of hand. PvP'ers have the whole of nosec to in which to vent their aggression on each other. That they regularly bring this into hisec and direct it at players and corps they are too well aware lack the wherewithal to put up a substantial and costly fight for the aggressors speaks volumes about their intent...To cause havoc for no other reason than they can.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Just one system - one single system out of all the rest. No one has yet to explain how that one system with different rules of engagement could ruin the game. Offer explanations of how that one system will ruin the game instead of platitudes like, "Eve is Eve and that means PvP". One system sure seems to worry folks a lot without offering why.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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EVE can actually not support many industrialists, since they're completely dependent on people actually using what they produce, ie. by blowing it up.
That is why PvP is the prime occupation, and all the others are at best intended as side occupations for PvP'ers. People like you who don't want to shoot stuff or be shot are actually very bad for the in-game balance since you produce too much stuff without consuming anything.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Biglips, I don't know what word you were trying to hide, but the context in which you chose to hide your true belief and make it subject to interpretation left me to believe that if your secret word been positive, you would have spelled it out, therefore, I conclude it was not congratulatory.

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Originally by: Vesper Gunn

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I think it would be better if War Decs were linked to specific constellations. That way people would have to fight over territory. If you want to stop a Corp operating in and around Jita then you pay Concord isk to wage a war in the Kimotoro constellation. Price could rise depending on how many other wars are going on in the same place.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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...Currently, the economy is already so much out of order that self-destructing battleships makes sense (which somewhat hides the excess mineral production problem, but creates a horrendous ISK faucet). EVE needs LESS safe production of resources, not more safe!...

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Originally by: Galius Zed

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Originally by: Kerfira

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...Currently, the economy is already so much out of order that self-destructing battleships makes sense (which somewhat hides the excess mineral production problem, but creates a horrendous ISK faucet). EVE needs LESS safe production of resources, not more safe!...

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Reply to quote: I can't believe you just argued for everything in the verse to actually cost more to purchase! I mean so what if it costs less to make a BS than to get it blown up after getting insured. Instead of saying the insurance part of the game needs to be fixed, you flame the ppl making it cheap for you to pew pew. Perfectly sound logic you got there.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Edited by: Kerfira on 24/01/2010 17:12:37

Originally by: Galius Zed

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Originally by: Kerfira

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...Currently, the economy is already so much out of order that self-destructing battleships makes sense (which somewhat hides the excess mineral production problem, but creates a horrendous ISK faucet). EVE needs LESS safe production of resources, not more safe!...

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Reply to quote: I can't believe you just argued for everything in the verse to actually cost more to purchase! I mean so what if it costs less to make a BS than to get it blown up after getting insured. Instead of saying the insurance part of the game needs to be fixed, you flame the ppl making it cheap for you to pew pew. Perfectly sound logic you got there.

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That is because I know what a healthy game economy looks like and YOU don't!

You completely ignoring the main point of my post (and only concentrating on the impact on your internet spacegame wallet) is proof enough of that.
For some of us, we'd like EVE to stay around for a long time, and doesn't care at all how much internet spaceship game money an internet spaceship costs. I care more that the game is in balance than I do of how many internet spaceship money are in my virtual internet spaceship wallet....
Not only caring about my own ISK is probably an alien concept to you....

For this game economy to be in a healthy state, prices should not hit the 'insurance' floor. When they do, it is a firm indication that either too much stuff is being produced for the game economy to handle, or not enough stuff is blown up.

That is a serious problem! The first MMO's were called MUD's (Multi User Domains), and I can't think of ANYTHING that killed more of them than 'mudflation' as it was called, which basically covered that too many resources flowed in, and not enough flowed out.
When it happened, at first players were overjoyed with being rich... Then they found out that EVERYONE was rich and that the ingame money didn't matter any more. Then they found out that the challenge of the game was gone. Then they left.....

Basic fact is: More stuff needs to blow up, or less stuff needs to be produced!

PS: I'm not against the removal of insurance, far from it.... ALL insurance. Total removal would more or less solve both problems (but the market would go wild, forum whines would ensue, and CCP wouldn't have the guts to do so)...

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Originally by: Kerfira

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...Not only caring about my own ISK is probably an alien concept to you....

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Originally by: Kerfira

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...For this game economy to be in a healthy state, prices should not hit the 'insurance' floor...

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Originally by: Galius Zed

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I may not be a financial expert but you have to ask, who creates the insurance cost/payout numbers? Not the same ppl who are producing or getting them blown up

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Vesper Gunn

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I think it would be better if War Decs were linked to specific constellations. That way people would have to fight over territory. If you want to stop a Corp operating in and around Jita then you pay Concord isk to wage a war in the Kimotoro constellation. Price could rise depending on how many other wars are going on in the same place.

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Originally by: Swiftgaze

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Originally by: Vesper Gunn

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I think it would be better if War Decs were linked to specific constellations. That way people would have to fight over territory. If you want to stop a Corp operating in and around Jita then you pay Concord isk to wage a war in the Kimotoro constellation. Price could rise depending on how many other wars are going on in the same place.

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Hats off, this is the best solution about the war dec issue that I've ever read. And I'm sober as I'm typing this.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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mentally and emotionally deficient

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Originally by: Shawna Gray

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If anything it needs to be easier to shoot "defenseless" targets. Currently the supply lines are so far removed from corps/alliances war its close to impossible to actually do some damage to the supply lines.

You might not believe it but it will also open up many more possibilities for industrial characters. Localized production will probably be much more important if logistics are more time consuming and more dangerous. Escorting freighters opens up more possibilities for smaller gang warfare. Fun for all, with the possible exception of the solo jita player.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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gonadally

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Originally by: Swiftgaze

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Originally by: Vesper Gunn

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I think it would be better if War Decs were linked to specific constellations. That way people would have to fight over territory. If you want to stop a Corp operating in and around Jita then you pay Concord isk to wage a war in the Kimotoro constellation. Price could rise depending on how many other wars are going on in the same place.

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Hats off, this is the best solution about the war dec issue that I've ever read. And I'm sober as I'm typing this.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Noriko Rei

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Originally by: Shawna Gray

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If anything it needs to be easier to shoot "defenseless" targets. Currently the supply lines are so far removed from corps/alliances war its close to impossible to actually do some damage to the supply lines.

You might not believe it but it will also open up many more possibilities for industrial characters. Localized production will probably be much more important if logistics are more time consuming and more dangerous. Escorting freighters opens up more possibilities for smaller gang warfare. Fun for all, with the possible exception of the solo jita player.

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The problem here is that escorting soft targets doesn't really help them. The aggressors will still kill the supply line, though the escorts might inflict some damage in return. Ultimately, though, the valuable goods will be lost, escorted or not.

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Originally by: Epic DaSoto

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Generally the way this works is that a small group of powerful players (at least in skills and understanding game mechanics) will go after the guilds with the newest players. EVE University must have been at a constant wardec.

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Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

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Edited by: Nooma K''Larr on 23/01/2010 11:47:26

Originally by: Lady Aja

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buhu

and 1st

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^^
Why do you even bother posting?

anyway, to address the problem:

Form 1 man corp on your alt...

war-dec comes in...

it takes 24 hours for a wardec to go live so you have two options if you don't wish to fight:

A. Drop corp immediately and form a new corp with an alt (about one hour of training)

B. wait 23 hours, drop corp, and form new one man corp.

You also have a comedy option:

Train up to use a proto cloak, go to a safespot, and cloak up while at work, the gym, school or while you sleep at night...

(or)

Roll some alts, make them CEO's of their own little OMC's(takes maybe seven minutes to train Corp 1 if you remap them for it), then jump corps like leapfrog until they get sick of throwing a wardec that you continually evade. Chances are it won't take long. They'll be on after better prey soon enough.

Originally by: Marchocias

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Understand the game!

Thats an order.

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On that note, EVE is geared more towards criminal activity. Carebears really are outgunned both ingame and in the CCP brainstorming sessions.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Denial and ad hominem arguments are ways to avoid facing the subject of discussion. The forum version of holding your hands over your ears and saying "I'm not listening".

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Originally by: Ascendic

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Corp hopping to avoid wardecs is a SPLOIT and CCP will spank you

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Originally by: Ascendic

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Edited by: Ascendic on 25/01/2010 04:11:18

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

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Edited by: Nooma K''Larr on 23/01/2010 11:47:26

Originally by: Lady Aja

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buhu

and 1st

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^^
Why do you even bother posting?

anyway, to address the problem:

Form 1 man corp on your alt...

war-dec comes in...

it takes 24 hours for a wardec to go live so you have two options if you don't wish to fight:

A. Drop corp immediately and form a new corp with an alt (about one hour of training)

B. wait 23 hours, drop corp, and form new one man corp.

You also have a comedy option:

Train up to use a proto cloak, go to a safespot, and cloak up while at work, the gym, school or while you sleep at night...

(or)

Roll some alts, make them CEO's of their own little OMC's(takes maybe seven minutes to train Corp 1 if you remap them for it), then jump corps like leapfrog until they get sick of throwing a wardec that you continually evade. Chances are it won't take long. They'll be on after better prey soon enough.

Originally by: Marchocias

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Understand the game!

Thats an order.

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On that note, EVE is geared more towards criminal activity. Carebears really are outgunned both ingame and in the CCP brainstorming sessions.

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Corp hopping to avoid wardecs is a SPLOIT and CCP will spank you

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Originally by: Ascendic

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Corp hopping to avoid wardecs is a SPLOIT and CCP will spank you

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Originally by: GM Nythanos

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Hello,

For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.

For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.

To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here:
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Elena Laskova

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Tippie

Your posts are 95% denial. I can't remember seeing you present a rational argument for or against anything.

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Quote:

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I've wondered from time to time if thye majority of you rookie-haters

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Quote:

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On topic: The problem, which is very real, is that highSec warDecs have no positive side

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Quote:

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and a definite negative one.

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Quote:

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OP didn't ask that combat should be banned in highSec, nor have most of the other posters here. It's highSec warDecs people want changed or removed: 99% ofdthe time they are used just to annoy and harass other people, primarily rookies.

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Quote:

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In the real world of gaming that's called griefing. Nobody has ever found a good side to it for anyone but the oddballs who do it.

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Quote:

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In EvE of course, annoying other people is encouraged, and is a path to respect and status among the other sewer rats /lol.

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Originally by: Wartime Profiteer

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Here we go around the circle and back to "Eve = PvP - like it or leave it and stop your f@@@ing whining". That is how this discussion has started and ended for years.

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Quote:

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I wonder why CCP even used a market instead of just issuing "loyalty points" based on killboard entries which can be exchanged for the tools of war. I wonder why they created this vast and intriquing market place - the one that just won an award for being the BEST! which makes this game the THE game for industrialists.

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Quote:

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Only the last of a dozen corps dec'ing me in the previous two years is still active, and I see them logging on with less and less frequencty. The next griefer to dec me is probably not even in a trial account, yet.

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Quote:

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I'd like the same courtesy - I won't ask you to play the game the way I play and you give me the same courtesy. You don't have to be an industrialist and I don't have to be a PvPer.

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Quote:

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And if you decide your pleasure only comes when you are ruining the game experience of others, at least admit it.

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Quote:

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I fight others in the market every day and the market place has its own way of inflicting damage on each other.

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Quote:

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One - JUST ONE system with no war, no can flipping, no fighting - do it for the length of just one expansion and see how it goes.

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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The problem is the divergent nature of PVP, PVE, Mining, Hauling, etc, etc, etc. To successfully PVP one must fit a ship for PVP which makes it rather inadequate to PVE. To PVE one must fit a ship to PVE which makes it rather inadequate to PVP. And to mine or haul....well you're just out in the cold.

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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The problem is the divergent nature of PVP, PVE, Mining, Hauling, etc, etc, etc. To successfully PVP one must fit a ship for PVP which makes it rather inadequate to PVE. To PVE one must fit a ship to PVE which makes it rather inadequate to PVP. And to mine or haul....well you're just out in the cold.

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If I wanted to go out and kill folks I'd take a tank. If I want to run to the shops I'll take a car or van. Eve isnt much different in that regards. You have a specific ship thats best for the task or you 'bodge' a ship to work a certain way but you take the penalty/drawbacks.

Switching to Swiss Army knife style ships that can do anything isnt the way to go.

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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Better tanks on miners and haulers, less task specific mods for PVP and PVE. Making such changes doesn't upset what the griefers in this thread want: non-consensual PVP, except it does make their targets harder to kill and possibly the griefers easier to kill. Oh, I can hear the tears already.

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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Insightful. I'm guessing here that if we had less mods that gave the PVPer the edge then more PVPers would die while trying to grief everyone else. And hence, more tears.And yet it doesn't eliminate the core of the pvp'ers argument: isk sinks, nonconsensual pvp, get over it, HTFU. Right? But that's not actually what you want. What you want is exactly the edge that you would deny everyone else. And that "isn't the way to go". Is it?

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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Insightful. I'm guessing here that if we had less mods that gave the PVPer the edge then more PVPers would die while trying to grief everyone else. And hence, more tears.And yet it doesn't eliminate the core of the pvp'ers argument: isk sinks, nonconsensual pvp, get over it, HTFU. Right? But that's not actually what you want. What you want is exactly the edge that you would deny everyone else. And that "isn't the way to go". Is it?

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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Just the kind of mindless, knee-jerk drivel I expected from the fan-boys. If I want to indulge in mindlessly violent gameplay...I play UT 3. If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE. You hard-core PvP'ers can play pew-pew with each other all you want in lo/no sec. Leave those of us who don't want to be bothered by your BS alone.

Anyone can go looking for trouble in lo/no sec if that's what they want to do. I prefer not to do that, and EVE mechanics should give us the option to avoid the mindless predation of the mentally and emotionally deficient whose only aim is to wreak as much havoc as possible...where and whenever possible.

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Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Ohhh Matron

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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Insightful. I'm guessing here that if we had less mods that gave the PVPer the edge then more PVPers would die while trying to grief everyone else. And hence, more tears.And yet it doesn't eliminate the core of the pvp'ers argument: isk sinks, nonconsensual pvp, get over it, HTFU. Right? But that's not actually what you want. What you want is exactly the edge that you would deny everyone else. And that "isn't the way to go". Is it?

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In any aspect of life there is a pecking order, a food chain. One species preys on another. It's life. I dont like seeing cute baby zebras getting eaten by lions but thats the way it goes.

If we buff the PVE ships then the gankers/deccers will just adapt by using more/bigger ships to gank and so on. It wont change a thing.

Alternatively you could just change the game to all having the same one type of ship with one mining laser and one pewpew laser and do away with skills. That would make it even steven but then it wouldnt be Eve.

Yeah the system isnt fair, but life isnt fair whether its real or pixels on screen. A 100% fair game is either boring or you get a predictable stalemate everytime.

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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If not accomplished by limiting the number of mods available for pve or pvp purposes then by making mission, complex, etc more PVP like.

You fix that chasm and you move closer to a fixed war-dec system. Because then, the guys in their corp who do nothing more than running missions, they'll have teeth in order to fight back when they're jumped by pvp fitted ships. That will go a long way to making some of these war-dec griefers think twice about it. And all without nerfing your precious PVP ships. But it does one thing for sure.....making it tougher for those of you who take pleasure in the non-consensual nature of PVP.

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Originally by: chrisss0r

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Yes, mining barges that can fight as good as pvp ships is a perfect idea. not

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: chrisss0r

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Yes, mining barges that can fight as good as pvp ships is a perfect idea. not

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Learning to read, on the other hand would be an awesome idea.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Edited by: Kerfira on 25/01/2010 15:52:41

Originally by: Wenisicia Corrino

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If I want to explore the environment and interact with others in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, I play EVE.

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You're playing the wrong game for that....

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Your desire to be left alone is not in the interest of the game. The EVE economy is based on players producing (mining, etc.) and consuming (being blown up) resources. If you're not participating in the resource consumption, you're actually a liability and a problem for the game balance.
In short, this is a game about blowing stuff up... Mine, yours, everyone's stuff! The design of the game basically mandates that people like you shouldn't be allowed in...

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Originally by: hoodie scaryguy

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You just totally cleared everything up for me and that makes perfect sense. If no one loses thier ships all the whining carebears would not make any isk yet they still whine about being blownup!

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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You fix that chasm and you move closer to a fixed war-dec system. Because then, the guys in their corp who do nothing more than running missions, they'll have teeth in order to fight back when they're jumped by pvp fitted ships. That will go a long way to making some of these war-dec griefers think twice about it. And all without nerfing your precious PVP ships. But it does one thing for sure.....making it tougher for those of you who take pleasure in the non-consensual nature of PVP.

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Originally by: Shawna Gray

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I guess the real problem with mission runner corps is that they are not really corps, but chat channels for solo players with noone to organise a bit of resistance once you get decced.

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Originally by: Shawna Gray

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Its a question of mentality more than ship capabilities.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Whether you're the prey or the predator has absolutely nothing to do with what ship or which equipment you have.....

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Buku Buku

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Last time i looked eve was a pvp game.

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