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Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2012.06.28 16:46:00 -
[331] - Quote
Andar Purvanen wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Which game mechanics have changed to make ganking easier or cheaper?
Was it when Insurance was nerfed?
Was it the several times Concord Reaction time was Buffed?
Maybe it was when bomeranging got declared an exploit for you? (despite being legal for years)
Or was it way back when CONCORD stopped being tankable?
Which one is the evidence that's leading you to believe that EvE's mechanics are changing to encourage ganking?
(Oh, and CCP has always said HS isn't meant to be safe, so stop expecting it to be safe.) Tears!!! Real tears!!! I can die happy now. At last, miner ganking, even with inferior gear, is win!!! Odd, I never claimed HS was safe. I claimed gankers were sufficiently empowered to be griefing whole categories of other players rather than just individuals.
Which of those buffs to Ganking was it that newly empowered gankers to grief you (TOS says griefing's a bannable offense, so I assume you actually mean "Gank")? -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Andar Purvanen
Cognitive Disonance
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 18:01:00 -
[332] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Andar Purvanen wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Which game mechanics have changed to make ganking easier or cheaper?
Was it when Insurance was nerfed?
Was it the several times Concord Reaction time was Buffed?
Maybe it was when bomeranging got declared an exploit for you? (despite being legal for years)
Or was it way back when CONCORD stopped being tankable?
Which one is the evidence that's leading you to believe that EvE's mechanics are changing to encourage ganking?
(Oh, and CCP has always said HS isn't meant to be safe, so stop expecting it to be safe.) Tears!!! Real tears!!! I can die happy now. At last, miner ganking, even with inferior gear, is win!!! Odd, I never claimed HS was safe. I claimed gankers were sufficiently empowered to be griefing whole categories of other players rather than just individuals. Which of those buffs to Ganking was it that newly empowered gankers to grief you (TOS says griefing's a bannable offense, so I assume you actually mean "Gank")?
None. Its a cumulative and likely unintended consequence of other changes over time. It is also Griefing though admittedly a large scale generalized form rather than directed against an individual.
You may play rules lawyer over the definition if you wish. Become one with Bill Clinton! Those being griefed know it when it happens to them.
To continue, despite heavy and repeated losses, PvPers still build and fight on and...have plenty of isk to do it with. Warships evolve and grow better.
And so ganking, always possible, is empowered in HighSec. But not particularly profitable. Except, potentially, during Hulkageddon when the rewards go up.
Now that it is year around the penalty/reward balance has skewed in favor of the Gankers/Griefers. Some sort of adjustment is required to offset the griefing directed against Miners while still permitting some forms of ganking in HighSec. I suggest it NOT be to ban the griefers.
It would appear to be a delicate balance sure to please no one.
Death does not deter.-á I will mine until you surrender. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1384
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Posted - 2012.06.28 18:10:00 -
[333] - Quote
I love how so many care bears fight to get rid of suicide ganking, on the grounds that it isn't "real" or fair combat.
Then they corp hop every chance they get, and vehemently oppose any fixes to war dec evasion that would render suicide ganking obsolete.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Nuckin Futz
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:26:00 -
[334] - Quote
Ahhh sweet sweet miners tears... oh wait I am one. Guess that makes me a cannibal? |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:29:00 -
[335] - Quote
Andar Purvanen wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Andar Purvanen wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Which game mechanics have changed to make ganking easier or cheaper?
Was it when Insurance was nerfed?
Was it the several times Concord Reaction time was Buffed?
Maybe it was when bomeranging got declared an exploit for you? (despite being legal for years)
Or was it way back when CONCORD stopped being tankable?
Which one is the evidence that's leading you to believe that EvE's mechanics are changing to encourage ganking?
(Oh, and CCP has always said HS isn't meant to be safe, so stop expecting it to be safe.) Tears!!! Real tears!!! I can die happy now. At last, miner ganking, even with inferior gear, is win!!! Odd, I never claimed HS was safe. I claimed gankers were sufficiently empowered to be griefing whole categories of other players rather than just individuals. Which of those buffs to Ganking was it that newly empowered gankers to grief you (TOS says griefing's a bannable offense, so I assume you actually mean "Gank")? None. Its a cumulative and likely unintended consequence of other changes over time. It is also Griefing though admittedly a large scale generalized form rather than directed against an individual. You may play rules lawyer over the definition if you wish. Become one with Bill Clinton! Those being griefed know it when it happens to them. To continue, despite heavy and repeated losses, PvPers still build and fight on and...have plenty of isk to do it with. Warships evolve and grow better. And so ganking, always possible, is empowered in HighSec. But not particularly profitable. Except, potentially, during Hulkageddon when the rewards go up. Now that it is year around the penalty/reward balance has skewed in favor of the Gankers/Griefers. Some sort of adjustment is required to offset the griefing directed against Miners while still permitting some forms of ganking in HighSec. I suggest it NOT be to ban the griefers. It would appear to be a delicate balance sure to please no one. then go and address the balance. players have made it such that ganking is profitable. if people don't want to be ganked it's up to them to tip the scales in their favour again. |
baltec1
1556
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:30:00 -
[336] - Quote
Andar Purvanen wrote:
None. Its a cumulative and likely unintended consequence of other changes over time. It is also Griefing though admittedly a large scale generalized form rather than directed against an individual.
No it is not griefing. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1134
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:34:00 -
[337] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Andar Purvanen wrote:None. Its a cumulative and likely unintended consequence of other changes over time. It is also Griefing though admittedly a large scale generalized form rather than directed against an individual. No it is not griefing. Just keep saying at, at some point CCP will believe it and ban the gankers, then you'll be safe ... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:18:00 -
[338] - Quote
Andar Purvanen wrote: None. Its a cumulative and likely unintended consequence of other changes over time. It is also Griefing though admittedly a large scale generalized form rather than directed against an individual.
You may play rules lawyer over the definition if you wish. Become one with Bill Clinton! Those being griefed know it when it happens to them.
To continue, despite heavy and repeated losses, PvPers still build and fight on and...have plenty of isk to do it with. Warships evolve and grow better.
And so ganking, always possible, is empowered in HighSec. But not particularly profitable. Except, potentially, during Hulkageddon when the rewards go up.
Now that it is year around the penalty/reward balance has skewed in favor of the Gankers/Griefers. Some sort of adjustment is required to offset the griefing directed against Miners while still permitting some forms of ganking in HighSec. I suggest it NOT be to ban the griefers.
It would appear to be a delicate balance sure to please no one.
Which specific changes have made HS game mechanically less safe? T3s and Dessy buffs are more than offset by the insurance nerf.
And, as I've mentioned, Ganking has been nerfed for you dozens of time. When is it going to be enough?
A Hulk already cannot be profitably ganked even with the GSF bounty, despite that bounty being a player run event (other HAGs had no bounty, just prizes, btw). -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:19:00 -
[339] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:I love how so many care bears fight to get rid of suicide ganking, on the grounds that it isn't "real" or fair combat.
Then they corp hop every chance they get, and vehemently oppose any fixes to war dec evasion that would render suicide ganking obsolete.
Shhh, it's only hypocrisy if the carebears disagree with it. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
975
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:28:00 -
[340] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: And, as I've mentioned, Ganking has been nerfed for you dozens of time. When is it going to be enough?
It will be enough when highsec players are invincible, obviously.
Sometimes I wonder if certain elements of the playerbase would be more happy playing X3: Terran Conflict. |
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:32:00 -
[341] - Quote
Xython wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: And, as I've mentioned, Ganking has been nerfed for you dozens of time. When is it going to be enough?
It will be enough when highsec players are invincible, obviously. Sometimes I wonder if certain elements of the playerbase would be more happy playing X3: Terran Conflict.
You should encourage them to join the Goonswarm federation, it doesn't get much safer then hiding behind thousands of nullbears. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:48:00 -
[342] - Quote
Xython wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: And, as I've mentioned, Ganking has been nerfed for you dozens of time. When is it going to be enough?
It will be enough when highsec players are invincible, obviously. Sometimes I wonder if certain elements of the playerbase would be more happy playing X3: Terran Conflict.
I think they want SW:G, found Here...
Oh... wait... -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1384
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 20:49:00 -
[343] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Xython wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: And, as I've mentioned, Ganking has been nerfed for you dozens of time. When is it going to be enough?
It will be enough when highsec players are invincible, obviously. Sometimes I wonder if certain elements of the playerbase would be more happy playing X3: Terran Conflict. You should encourage them to join the Goonswarm federation, it doesn't get much safer then hiding behind thousands of nullbears. Pick twenty goon pilots. Pick twenty high sec miners.
Compare kill boards.
Decide which group have to fight harder for their space.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Andar Purvanen
Cognitive Disonance
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 22:42:00 -
[344] - Quote
It isn't a specific mechanic. It is a result of the flood of isk unleashed by a combination of bounties and rewards provided by CCP (i.e., The State). That is and will always be the part of the sandbox that isn't player controlled.
Its going to be up to CCP to decide if it is a problem and, if they decide it is, what to do about it. Death does not deter.-á I will mine until you surrender. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2012.06.28 23:07:00 -
[345] - Quote
Andar Purvanen wrote:It isn't a specific mechanic. It is a result of the flood of isk unleashed by a combination of bounties and rewards provided by CCP (i.e., The State). That is and will always be the part of the sandbox that isn't player controlled.
Its going to be up to CCP to decide if it is a problem and, if they decide it is, what to do about it.
So you're saying that the problem is that Players want to violence other Players in EvE?
I'm sure that CCP will see that as a problem.
The fact that Isk is fauceting into the economy doesn't affect what we choose to do with it.
(Oh, and how is the NPC bounty system different now than it was before?) -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Gorinia Sanford
Sons of Russ
20
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Posted - 2012.06.30 16:00:00 -
[346] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Yes this is another High sec miner post but from a miners point of view. Us miners donGÇÖt get a lot of tears from other players unless itGÇÖs a failed gank and the gankers cry in local that its not fair that concord blew them up but it happens. One other way we get to feed on tears is the forum oh the awesome forum posts of characters like James 312 or something like that....... I wonder if all the players who post on these forums realize that when they cry about high sec miners they are actually feeding us tears while we laugh at them from our cozy little space guarded by concord.I am actually writing this as I mine since AFK mining is the way to go IMO.
Lets see I usually play another game or finish some financials from work or even play with my daughters while I mine but in the end I make bank no matter what happens to my ship :) I recently commented on a post about miners and ganking and I agree with some of the comments such as hoping that all the miners ragequit. That would be awesome as that just leaves more roids for us AFK miners because the damn belts were empty last night so I had to go mine ice. In all honesty hulkageddon has been great for sales keep blowing up those ships some of us are actually making a profit.
I see only 2 reasons for the hate towards miners. 1. jealousy This is simple, there is a group of players who make alot of isk with no risk and its perfectly legal so ganker says thats not fair I should be able to do that also...well guess what you can and most likely do but dont tell anyone that you do.
2. Boredom Low and null sec has become blob heaven or just too much risk for a solo miner.
I would discuss bots but I dont use them and those that do take the ultimate risk IMO because they risk getting banned (how many PVPers would still PVP if the ban hammer was hanging over them but they could make a ton of isk and a generally short time period hmmmm.).
In conclusion you can troll this post make fun of my grammar and typos or touch yourself I dont really care and thats what everyone needs to understand, Miners dont give a flying monkeys ass if you cry about them its like standing in the middle of the forest all by yourself and yelling I hate everyone. who gives a @#$%. Keep buying our stuff on the market though please we do appreciate your business.
Please continue to cry about miners on the forums its great reading when im stuck at work.
Well, what I see is basically you have a bunch of behavoir controlists who are pissed off you're not playing the sandbox "their way". Kind of like the same type of people did with smoking. "Oh? You're not listening to us? Well we'll just tax and ban smoking everywhere we can, blah, blah, blah."
That's all it really boils down to. You're not "doing it right" according to some fools who think they know better. I mean honestly, what the hell business is it of theirs if I choose to mine in highsec, lowsec or nosec? |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
185
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Posted - 2012.06.30 20:47:00 -
[347] - Quote
Gorinia Sanford wrote: Well, what I see is basically you have a bunch of behavoir controlists who are pissed off you're not playing the sandbox "their way". Kind of like the same type of people did with smoking. "Oh? You're not listening to us? Well we'll just tax and ban smoking everywhere we can, blah, blah, blah."
That's all it really boils down to. You're not "doing it right" according to some fools who think they know better. I mean honestly, what the hell business is it of theirs if I choose to mine in highsec, lowsec or nosec?
It's none of our business. But then None of the people hunting Miners seriously want to ban Mining in HS. Miners seriously want to ban Suicide ganking (as evidenced by the-last-nerf-is-never-enough-itis).
What the hell business is it of yours if I choose to hunt miners in hisec, lowsec, or nosec? -RubyPorto
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