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IT Alliance BS "Offer" To Occupy Space in Delve and Quernos

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nakKEDK Gallente x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:47:00 - [151] Edited by: nakKEDK on 23/02/2010 18:50:10 Edited by: nakKEDK on 23/02/2010 18:47:45 Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Quote: "Hasan reportedly jumped onto a desk and shouted: "Allahu Akbar!" Feel bad about myself, but it was funny Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. check this Linkage realedit: sniped k
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:52:00 - [152] Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. I'm not necessarily complaining, per se. I've pointed out something because I thought it was an outrageous price tag, but wasnt sure of the numbers - so I posted those numbers here for feedback. And you're right - acting like Eve is a job defeats the purpose of the game, so like you I see that the expectations of large alliances like IT are simply outrageous... people do not play Eve to become slaves.
Homo Erectus Amarr Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:55:00 - [153] Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup
FOl2TY8 Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:05:00 - [154] Originally by: Homo Erectus sup aww look at all that hard work
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:10:00 - [155] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 19:13:53 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. I'm not necessarily complaining, per se. I've pointed out something because I thought it was an outrageous price tag, but wasnt sure of the numbers - so I posted those numbers here for feedback. And you're right - acting like Eve is a job defeats the purpose of the game, so like you I see that the expectations of large alliances like IT are simply outrageous... people do not play Eve to become slaves. Uh yes..you are complaining. That was the whole premise of your thread and most of your replies..complaining about prices, alliance sizes, sovereignty and people not respecting you and so on. I was nice about it and tried to explain it to you, and when you finally couldn't complain your way out of it anymore and couldn't tell me what I was advocating, you stopped replying and refused to own up. So honestly..all I have left to say is: Deal with IT (pun intended) or go somewhere else.
Homo Erectus Amarr Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:16:00 - [156] Originally by: FOl2TY8 aww look at all that hard work
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:19:00 - [157] Originally by: Cadela Fria Uh yes..you are complaining. That was the whole premise of your thread and most of your replies..complaining about prices, alliance sizes, sovereignty and people not respecting you and so on. I was nice about it and tried to explain it to you, and when you finally couldn't complain your way out of it anymore and couldn't tell me what I was advocating, you stopped replying and refused to own up. So honestly..all I have left to say is: Deal with IT (pun intended) or go somewhere else. Courtesy is a fickle thing - I've told you what you're advocating for... just now. I dont have time to sit on these forums 24/7 to respond to you. And, there is nothing to own up to... rightly or wrongly I responded in kind to someone's discourtesy/rudeness and I tried to point out that not everyone is a 16yr old in this game. So, you're right - there is nothing else to say.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:46:00 - [158] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I've told you what you're advocating for... just now. And it is...what?
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:03:00 - [159] What link do I get for saying "T20"?
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:04:00 - [160] Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Dont forget this - following orders without question in ones national army is truly worthy of respect ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc

Pubsey Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:13:00 - [161] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup idgi
Vertumnus Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:41:00 - [162] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. I'm not necessarily complaining, per se. I've pointed out something because I thought it was an outrageous price tag, but wasnt sure of the numbers - so I posted those numbers here for feedback. And you're right - acting like Eve is a job defeats the purpose of the game, so like you I see that the expectations of large alliances like IT are simply outrageous... people do not play Eve to become slaves. I believe the terms are for your corporation/alliance. I don't know what the details are but think of it like this... Its not just you using the system, say you have 30 people in your corporation that is active... and that will use the system, mining/ratting/anoms ect.. You charge each member 300mill to use the system 300*30 = 9bill. now from you % TAX via corp lvl with all this ratting and what not, should cover the extra 1 bill 300 mill ratting, would take your ordinary joe 3-5 days ratting to pay, less time if he gets faction spawns. Correct me if I am wrong but, if you wanted to rent space, would you not use it? Do what you want to do. but im just saying its not hard to come up with the isk if others are willing to help pay for things. Eve now is evolving to where you need your members to help everyone out for the common good.
VCBee 2fast2furious Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 21:36:00 - [163] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Dont forget this - following orders without question in ones national army is truly worthy of respect :godwin:
Tornim Minmatar Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:08:00 - [164] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria Uh yes..you are complaining. That was the whole premise of your thread and most of your replies..complaining about prices, alliance sizes, sovereignty and people not respecting you and so on. I was nice about it and tried to explain it to you, and when you finally couldn't complain your way out of it anymore and couldn't tell me what I was advocating, you stopped replying and refused to own up. So honestly..all I have left to say is: Deal with IT (pun intended) or go somewhere else. Courtesy is a fickle thing - I've told you what you're advocating for... just now. I dont have time to sit on these forums 24/7 to respond to you. And, there is nothing to own up to... rightly or wrongly I responded in kind to someone's discourtesy/rudeness and I tried to point out that not everyone is a 16yr old in this game. So, you're right - there is nothing else to say. Imperator, You have refused to see their side of the debate as you have claimed they refuse to see yours. They have brought up multiple points and counters to your arguments which you ignore by saying "you're bias" or "you're just keeping your interests in mind". Now I'll agree that Domination probably didn't open up all of 0.0 like CCP and you'd like. But you haven't addressed Cadela Fria's main point, "even if IT only had 1 system, but 6k memebers they could still keep you from holding sov in systems near by that 1 system". Not being able to claim "your" sov will NOT stop IT from removing it from you if they deem to. The problem you're having is with the BLOB not the sov. As for people being rude, imo you are the one who started talking down to the people with contrary arguments first. Secondly you MUST realize that this is an internet forum, and anonymity will remove a lot of the "moral" people respond with, and get over that. Being sensitive and defensive will not make your points any more valid and they points any less. Other than that, I think this is a great discussion and bringing to light ideas and debate points I hadn't thought would be relevant. Fake Edit: 10b a month sounds HUGE on the onset, but (from this thread) there are other options out there.
Slay Deathdealer Amarr Sleepless Psychos	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:42:00 - [165] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Dont forget this - following orders without question in ones national army is truly worthy of respect To make your future trolling easier, not that you need it.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:47:00 - [166] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Imperator Ceasar System ownership should be cheap for the first 3-5 systems, but get progressively more expensive up to prohibitively expensive and limited for the max systmes owned per alliance. We agree. We said that during the consultation for Dominion, CCP even said they would implement it and we celebrated. Then they didn't. Go figure. That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:03:00 - [167] Tornim - while I appreciate your courtesy and points, I am advocating for those "smaller organizations" whom I hear from constantly -- the large alliances have way too much influence where sov is concerned. I dont really care about the 1 system, 6k members denying space issue because that isnt my point at all. I see what he's saying, but that isnt germaine to the actual game mechanics I am speaking to and my advocacy for limiting the number of systems an alliance can actually claim on the map. This is why I am not really addressing Cadela's example... while what he says is true, I still think game mechanics should be altered to limit the number of systems an alliance can sov. Cadela is speaking to control - I am not. I am speaking to in-game mechanics about sov'd systems and the need for some limitations on large alliances. My bet is, people would be more willing to enter CONTROLLED territory and try to claim space if more systems were open for claiming via sov mechanics. My other bet is, such intrusions would help keep large alliances in check to some degree through the expenditure of assets such as ships, TCU's and etc. This would create, I hope, more competitiveness and sov warfare - which I think wouild make things more interesting for everyone. These static sov-dots on the map are negatives, IMO, for Eve in general and CCP should act to place limits on alliances so that despite control issues, smaller alliances can at least gain a vision of hope for acquiring space. As it stands now, large alliances can sov up a lot of space and by that mechanic alone prevent any serious intrusions into their territory by anyone except another large competing alliance. CADELA'S point of view is for maintaining the status quo because the current system serves his alliance's best interests, as well as his own. I've told him this already, yet he refuses to acknowledge this point.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:09:00 - [168] Originally by: Avernus That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations. I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm saying about splitting up the sov'd space into smaller "chunks" of INTERESTS - I think this would help invigorate the world of Eve. And I like your idea of making stations reclaimable - GREAT IDEA!
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:31:00 - [169] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Avernus That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations. I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm saying about splitting up the sov'd space into smaller "chunks" of INTERESTS - I think this would help invigorate the world of Eve. And I like your idea of making stations reclaimable - GREAT IDEA! Have to admit, I like the thought of changing Eve topography. More than that, you know you've really owned an opponent when you've taken his space, decided you don't want it for yourself and can't sell it off... so you dismantle their stations for profit, and head home.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:32:00 - [170] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Avernus That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations. I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm saying about splitting up the sov'd space into smaller "chunks" of INTERESTS - I think this would help invigorate the world of Eve. And I like your idea of making stations reclaimable - GREAT IDEA! Have to admit, I like the thought of changing Eve topography. More than that, you know you've really owned an opponent when you've taken his space, decided you don't want it for yourself and can't sell it off... so you dismantle their stations for profit, and head home. Dang Avernus - good point!

Tornim Minmatar Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:45:00 - [171] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Cadela is speaking to control - I am not. I am speaking to in-game mechanics about sov'd systems and the need for some limitations on large alliances. My bet is, people would be more willing to enter CONTROLLED territory and try to claim space if more systems were open for claiming via sov mechanics. My other bet is, such intrusions would help keep large alliances in check to some degree through the expenditure of assets such as ships, TCU's and etc. CVA and some of Providence tried to do just that. They tried to claim some sov unclaimed systems in CONTROLLED AAA space. They have since been beaten back and lost some of their own sov claimed systems for their trouble. However I do agree that having those systems with Sov unclaimed probably did ENCOURAGE CVA to try and take it. But it didn't help them HOLD the sov. If the point you're arguing is only that less sov claimed systems will encourage more pilots/corps/alliance try and claim systems I will most likely agree. But claiming sov and holding sov are very different! What is the point of claiming sov without the ability and will to hold it? That is the counterpoint I, and a lot of ppl, are trying to make ourselves. That being said, Domination DID make it easier for anyone to TRY and claim a new system. There is no more pos spamming/attacking/defending. And if you're organized you can flip a sov claimed system (depending on the defenders) to your own much quicker and easier then previous. Claiming an actual sov unclaimed system is even easier (just setup a TCU). Another point I'd like to address is the idea that just cause a power block has sov in a systems doesn't mean they will defend it to the dying man. If smaller alliance can get together and actually contest and win a system from the power block, either by wining fights or timing mechanics, the power block will usually reevaluate what that system and the new entity are worth. If you put up ~good fights~ they might let you stay around or join up diplomatically. At the least will give you a better position to bargain or negotiate from. On the other hand you might just the same get steamrolled out.
Bozse Caldari Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:58:00 - [172] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Stuffs Artificial limits don't work, what's to say that we wouldn't go back to the old way of beeing an alliance, combined ingame chat with restricted access and then split down to 8-10 separate IGA to claim sov ? All you are suggesting is to make administration and logistics a bit more complex for the big entity, IGA was created to remove that complexity to begin with. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:10:00 - [173] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Stuffs Artificial limits don't work, what's to say that we wouldn't go back to the old way of beeing an alliance, combined ingame chat with restricted access and then split down to 8-10 separate IGA to claim sov ? All you are suggesting is to make administration and logistics a bit more complex for the big entity, IGA was created to remove that complexity to begin with. They dont work, eh? I have not seen evidence of that - just opinions on "what if's" that arent any different than my own point of view and ideas for change. So, yes - make it more comlex and idfficult... break up the sov topography and stop catering to large alliances & find a balance.
OldPueblo Gallente DarkStar 1 SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:25:00 - [174] Originally by: The Ratfink Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. "lol we are still relevant." Is all I got from your post about someone else's post. What are you talking about, we've not been relevant since we won 0.0 last year then walked away from it. What does relevant even mean? Are you relevant? This might help me figure it out.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:34:00 - [175] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Stuffs Artificial limits don't work, what's to say that we wouldn't go back to the old way of beeing an alliance, combined ingame chat with restricted access and then split down to 8-10 separate IGA to claim sov ? All you are suggesting is to make administration and logistics a bit more complex for the big entity, IGA was created to remove that complexity to begin with. They dont work, eh? I have not seen evidence of that - just opinions on "what if's" that arent any different than my own point of view and ideas for change. So, yes - make it more comlex and idfficult... break up the sov topography and stop catering to large alliances & find a balance. Speaking as someone who has run both large and small alliances, both as IGA and pre-IGA, gotta disagree with the above sentiment. Balance is the correct term to use, but it comes down to mechanics. You can't (and I mean can't as a matter of opinion) do it at the expense of one group to satisfy another group. IGAs provide a bare minimum of supporting tools for all of us, something we all hope to see change as Dominion progresses. With what we have available to us right now, aside from removing alliance mechanics altogether, you couldn't make it much more complex than it already is. Sov mechanics on the other hand, took a step in the right direction with Dominion, but didn't go far enough. What you seem to advocate is a sovereignty cost based directly upon number of systems held, and the cost should increase either exponentially, or on a scale. I think what is needed is a sovereignty cost based upon systems held, but tempered by activity using the existing indexes. Few systems = low cost Lots of systems, coupled with low index activity = butthurt alliance wallet Lots of systems, high index activity = sustainable cost We can't punish alliances for having lots of space, especially if they need it. On the same hand, I have no problem seeing alliance wallets suffer for those who have held onto far more than they can use. Dominion needs a Vassal Alliance mechanic tbh. Would make some sense to use an expansion of existing contract mechanics. Owner of the space sets the terms (area, cost, right to build stations, erect POS, upgrade systems, length of contract), can put it on 'open market' or to those set blue. Owner and Vassal can haggle over the details and adjust the contract agreement until both sign off on it. Owner retains original rights to the space in question, while the contract is in effect however, sov mechanics show the space in question under the Vassals ownership. If the contract is defaulted for failure to meet terms of agreement or the owner declines to renew the contract at end of term, the space reverts to the owner.
Sandwich PvP Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:38:00 - [176] Edited by: Sandwich PvP on 24/02/2010 00:46:02 IT's a sandbox. All of the arguments come down to this. Either you build a bigger, nastier Alliance to take what you want, or you learn the value of diplomacy and show the alliance that cutting a deal with you could be more of an advantage than a liability. Placing artificial limits on the size of Alliance or the number of systems they can control would be an attack on the very basis of the game. Like it or hate it, this is EVE. Edit: Now the dismantling of stations would fit within the the sandbox theme, and I don't know why it's not already in the game. The only fight worth fighting is the one you should lose.
Ephemeron Caldari Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:07:00 - [177] As I see it, there are plenty of alliances offering space for cheaper. Why rage here? let the market forces sort things out. If IT's price is too high, they lose most of potential customers to NC, for example, which in turn makes their enemies stronger and richer.
Brutus Septimius Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:09:00 - [178] Originally by: Sandwich PvP Now the dismantling of stations would fit within the the sandbox theme, and I don't know why it's not already in the game. Yeah, why isn't it? Oooh, wai... I know... because of the fact that outposts are filled with tens/hundreds of thousands of items belonging to hundreds/thousands of people, and it would be a great surprise to find out someone moved alliance X's blocked cache of dreads across the map, or worse yet, said cache of dreads is sitting pretty in the repackaged egg, in someone's hangar at some other station. vOv sandbox!
Twigand Berries Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:29:00 - [179] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup Oh thank you. I only read the goon posts anyway, and this makes it so much easier.
Xunasy Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:35:00 - [180] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup u mad?



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