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IT Alliance BS "Offer" To Occupy Space in Delve and Quernos

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 06:10:00 - [1] THIS HAS TO BE A "SCREW OFF" MESSAGE - OR IT IS READY TO SCAM ANYONE WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO AGREE TO THEIR SO CALLED "TERMS" - From: Dianabolic Sent: 2010.02.21 10:54 To: Imperator Ceasar, I would recommend 1M4-FK, however before we go further you should be aware of the terms if you are not already: Per system EXCLUSIVE use: Pricetag; 10 billion / month, 15 billion deposit. Renter buys ugrades, we install them Renter hauls upgrades, we anchor them Moonmining not allowed. Moonrefinieries not allowed.
5QU199L35 Minmatar L337 KR3W	Posted - 2010.02.22 06:22:00 - [2] seems reasonable to me
Salmeria Gallente GoonFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2010.02.22 06:41:00 - [3] its a -.03 system lol
Lord Rahvin Gallente Crimson Empire. Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.02.22 06:45:00 - [4] Better question, will renters be set blue to the rest of the coalition?
Daco Cutter Gallente NQX Innovations HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.02.22 07:08:00 - [5] Even better question is since this is a cesspit of the forums, how easy was it for him to come up with that just to flame them, or more plausible to get himself attention because he is feeling un-noticed.......... ----------
Captain ULTIMATE Amarr DarkStar 1 SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 07:08:00 - [6] I hear there are expensive sov bills to cover.
Ribeye Jaksom Caldari ElitistOps	Posted - 2010.02.22 07:09:00 - [7] Edited by: Ribeye Jaksom on 22/02/2010 07:11:06 Why pay when you can move there right now for free. These guys will do nothing to stop you. Also some of them carry some nice loot around why would you want them blue.
SavageBastard Caldari Igneus Auctorita SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 07:31:00 - [8] You should obviously pay them for space that you can upgrade to be just as good as any other system in 0.0 but still not as good as running missions in empire.
Kola XXX Caldari Versatech Co. Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.02.22 07:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Captain ULTIMATE I hear there are expensive sov bills to cover. Where did you hear this nonsense?
Stinger 21 Minmatar Vodka Inc	Posted - 2010.02.22 07:38:00 - [10] A deadend can give alot of isk with upgrades, a few guys with 5 Hulk char each can earn alot of money there. Not sure about that 15 bil in deposit.
Betty Boom Caldari SPECTRE Syndicate	Posted - 2010.02.22 08:23:00 - [11] The system has an icebelt and you have 30 moons to run reactions-pos. Next system is a station. Looks like you doesnt understand the mail or how to make profit.^^
Omeega Amarr Lethal Corp RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.02.22 08:41:00 - [12] How did you expect IT to keep up with Shrike's titan losses? Don't speak english, f1,f2,f3...
Diane Curie Gallente JotunHeim Hird Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.22 08:58:00 - [13] Those seems to the general terms they are offering. You have two options (besides paying). Find better accomodation elsewhere or find a nice quiet system and just take it.
Yaay Amarr UK Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.02.22 09:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Yaay on 22/02/2010 09:19:47 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THIS HAS TO BE A "SCREW OFF" MESSAGE - OR IT IS READY TO SCAM ANYONE WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO AGREE TO THEIR SO CALLED "TERMS" - From: Dianabolic Sent: 2010.02.21 10:54 To: Imperator Ceasar, I would recommend 1M4-FK, however before we go further you should be aware of the terms if you are not already: Per system EXCLUSIVE use: Pricetag; 10 billion / month, 15 billion deposit. Renter buys ugrades, we install them Renter hauls upgrades, we anchor them Moonmining not allowed. Moonrefinieries not allowed. Obviously, you have no Idea how 0.0 mechanics work. However, that said, I'll undercut their price by 5 billion on the deposit, and 2 billion a month with all other stipulations remaining the same. We will even give you a station system with a refinery if you so desire. Our shuttle prices in station will also be under 500k each, sorry Dian, Capitalism and all. DD changes Docking PVP games
Anna Valerios Amarr Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.02.22 09:26:00 - [15] Most of IT's leaderships are mocking the pricing behind their leaderships backs as it is completely deluded which is to be expected with a combination of Molle and Dian ;) When an alliance like Atlas can rent out 50+ systems and yet IT have only a handfull of alliances renting. ~ avs
Keflin Geard Gallente The Circle Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.22 10:14:00 - [16] Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying.
Schani Kratnorr Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 10:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THIS HAS TO BE A "SCREW OFF" MESSAGE - OR IT IS READY TO SCAM ANYONE WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO AGREE TO THEIR SO CALLED "TERMS" Capital letters, really? Now I am not Dian, but as far as I know, the numbers are correct. If you took offense I think you are overreacting. A high price usually means "if you dont have the money you are welcome to try somewhere else." Agreed not everyone can afford a massive deposit like. Some will though. And they may (or may not) be better prepared to utilize their space than less affluent tenants. I do not think the iT rental agreements are fraudulent. It would be counter-productive to attempt to trick people into handing over pocket change, when trying to secure a long lasting relationship. (not actually an official speaky-type person. do not listen to me)
SavageBastard Caldari Igneus Auctorita SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 10:34:00 - [18] Edited by: SavageBastard on 22/02/2010 10:35:08 Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THIS HAS TO BE A "SCREW OFF" MESSAGE - OR IT IS READY TO SCAM ANYONE WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO AGREE TO THEIR SO CALLED "TERMS" Capital letters, really? Now I am not Dian, but as far as I know, the numbers are correct. If you took offense I think you are overreacting. A high price usually means "if you dont have the money you are welcome to try somewhere else." Thanks for that knockout analysis there guy. Now people know that if they don't have enough money then they can't afford it.
Schani Kratnorr Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 10:56:00 - [19] Originally by: SavageBastard Thanks for that knockout analysis there guy. Now people know that if they don't have enough money then they can't afford it. You are welcome! On a related note, I should also mention that the same basic principle of "empty wallet, empty bag" applies to the automated in-game billing system.
Underlaget Caldari Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. ^^^
Morgaaan Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. Did you miss the memo about our new rentrs in PB.......now shush yer gonna scare off the customers :) SS.E Recruitment
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Morgaaan Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. Did you miss the memo about our new rentrs in PB.......now shush yer gonna scare off the customers :) Sys-k having renters is like AAA Citizens having renters, it's unfathomable.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Hostile Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:52:00 - [23] Edited by: Garia666 on 22/02/2010 11:53:48 Atlas asks +/- 200 mill for a system.. you can put up your own upgrades.. just no cyno jammer. Systems with outpost are allot more expensive but still no 10 bill amonth.. more like 3 or 4 Thats why alliances like it so much.. it also puts an local security in its place.. ( local police ) that way atlas can just leave there system and go war other alliances.. its very smart tbh.. www.garia.net
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.02.22 11:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Yaay Obviously, you have no Idea how 0.0 mechanics work. However, that said, I'll undercut their price by 5 billion on the deposit, and 2 billion a month with all other stipulations remaining the same. We will even give you a station system with a refinery if you so desire. Our shuttle prices in station will also be under 500k each, sorry Dian, Capitalism and all. Yeah... That offer is so bad they should stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Renter buying upgrades is OK. Renter transporting upgrade is braindead. Who has the titans to JB them out? Surely that must be the renters. And moon mining... If you're not mining the moon, why would you care what the renters do? Let them mine/refine those you do not claim. Any contract must _explicitly_ give the renters free reign to pursue escalations, else find someone else to rent from. 10 billion for _one_ system? A single system will support some 20-30 people max spread over all timezones... asking more than 100M per pilot is not going to be very marketable prices... They are your customers, not carebears to be fleeced.
Yaay Amarr UK Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.02.22 12:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: Yaay Obviously, you have no Idea how 0.0 mechanics work. However, that said, I'll undercut their price by 5 billion on the deposit, and 2 billion a month with all other stipulations remaining the same. We will even give you a station system with a refinery if you so desire. Our shuttle prices in station will also be under 500k each, sorry Dian, Capitalism and all. Yeah... That offer is so bad they should stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Renter buying upgrades is OK. Renter transporting upgrade is braindead. Who has the titans to JB them out? Surely that must be the renters. And moon mining... If you're not mining the moon, why would you care what the renters do? Let them mine/refine those you do not claim. Any contract must _explicitly_ give the renters free reign to pursue escalations, else find someone else to rent from. 10 billion for _one_ system? A single system will support some 20-30 people max spread over all timezones... asking more than 100M per pilot is not going to be very marketable prices... They are your customers, not carebears to be fleeced. You're thinking in terms of 1 day. 30 pilots x 24hrs x 20 mil per hr (low ball) = 14.4 bil a day... half of that is 7.2 bil a day. Never have pity on renters, give them an opportunity to exploit you and they will. Renters always play the pity card, they get a ** load out of a system, especially with the upgrades now. At a low 12 hr estimate, and by most renter standards, 12 hrs income x 30 pilots daily x 20 mil/hr is very low, they can cover it in 1.5 days, leaving 28.5 days of freedom per month. Atlas has no enemies, and no ability to retain half the space they hold. It makes sense to rent it cheap b/c there is so much. They just have 3/4 of eve blued or naped and renters too dumb or scared to figure out how much cheaper owning space is. IT conversely have an EPEEN rep to uphold, which means losing 1 station would cost them 300 members in an instant, and more mockery here. IT also know that even if it is renter owned space, if it's lost, they take the fall on these forums. Atlas is better at scapegoating, b/c well, they don't give a anyways. Personalities play a role in price. IT consider themselves top dollar even if the rest of eve does not. Atlas has ** loads of space and not a care in the world. We have less space, but we won't give it up cheaply to be abused, we'd rather squat on it ourselves. Such is the personalities of EVE. Now how about that deal? DD changes Docking PVP games
Fire Hawk Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 12:18:00 - [26] Mostly harmm..... never fails to deliver ... ___ Fear the french touch.
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 12:50:00 - [27] Originally by: Fire Hawk Mostly harmm..... never fails to deliver ... IT Alliance spinning like a top itt.
VonKaplanek III Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 13:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. So if iT are fail please remind me how you got period basis again?
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 13:40:00 - [29] Originally by: VonKaplanek III Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. So if iT are fail please remind me how you got period basis again? They got Period Basis because niarT epaR failed to pay a sovereignty bill and we pulled the plug which logically forced ZAF to leave as well. If you are implying that Sys-k only have sovereignty in Period Basis because you allow them then you are seriously delusional. Sys-k are AAA pets, not IT pets.
Callum545 Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.02.22 13:41:00 - [30] hmm seems reasonable where do i sign up?
Homo Erectus Amarr Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 13:50:00 - [31] CALM DOWN GOONS, I'M SURE YOU WILL BE AWESOME IN THE 0.0 FORUMS AGAIN SOMEDAY.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:25:00 - [32] Edited by: Butter Dog on 22/02/2010 14:25:33 Originally by: Yaay 10 billion for _one_ system? A single system will support some 20-30 people max spread over all timezones... asking more than 100M per pilot is not going to be very marketable prices... At full utilisation of level 5 mining/military upgrades that is probably right, but that would be FULL 24/7 utilisation, most alliances/corps have a clearly defined peak of activity which usually lasts no more than 6 hours. On that basis, you could probably run 2-3 alliance/corp ops a month to cover the rent, but the key issue is that other alliaces offer rental at a fraction of the price. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
VCBee 2fast2furious Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:39:00 - [33] Why would you rent IT's space and not just join one of their revolving-door member corps like everyone else does?
Hemmo Paskiainen Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:47:00 - [34] Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious Why would you rent IT's space and not just join one of their revolving-door member corps like everyone else does? is there space to rent in syndicate?
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:48:00 - [35] Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious Why would you rent IT's space and not just join one of their revolving-door member corps like everyone else does? is there space to rent in syndicate? Syndicate is npc 0.0 you little nub
LadyScarlet Minmatar Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:52:00 - [36] Free advertisment is best advertisement send all request to Rman
Dianabolic Gallente Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 14:52:00 - [37] Month1 = 15bn Month2 = 10bn Month3 = 10bn (and so on) Watching you come running to whine like a stuffed pig about our costs? Priceless.
Goose Hypocrisy Caldari The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:01:00 - [38] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THIS HAS TO BE A "SCREW OFF" MESSAGE - OR IT IS READY TO SCAM ANYONE WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO AGREE TO THEIR SO CALLED "TERMS" - From: Dianabolic Sent: 2010.02.21 10:54 To: Imperator Ceasar, I would recommend 1M4-FK, however before we go further you should be aware of the terms if you are not already: Per system EXCLUSIVE use: Pricetag; 10 billion / month, 15 billion deposit. Renter buys ugrades, we install them Renter hauls upgrades, we anchor them Moonmining not allowed. Moonrefinieries not allowed. We regret that the 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment didn't find the offer reasonable. However, I want to assure CAOD that the other 103 Ranger Mobile Combat Regiments are satisfied customers. -clp
Mitch Taylor Caldari Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:02:00 - [39] The pirate detection array 5 systems yield some pretty impressive results. The key benefit over empire being the lack of agent interaction time, docking, chatting, undocking, travel etc. Ignoring all spawns but sanctums, two people ratting with decent setups (and a brain) can generate 15m per 20minutes each, or 90m an hour between them. Over the course of a day 2,160bn Over the course of a week 15,120bn Over an average month 65,520bn On top of this approx 1/10 sanctums results in an escalation which in fountain means core-x, vindi bpcs, etc (random drops but worst case scenario overseers 130m, best we saw upto 5bn in mods/bpcs) I guess the op just doesn't know how to carebear. The Dark is Rising...
Omeega Amarr Lethal Corp RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Over the course of a day 2,160bn Over the course of a week 15,120bn Over an average month 65,520bn Even for a russian 10/10er, 24/7 is hardcore NPCing :) Don't speak english, f1,f2,f3...
Mitch Taylor Caldari Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:25:00 - [41] Originally by: Omeega Originally by: Mitch Taylor Over the course of a day 2,160bn Over the course of a week 15,120bn Over an average month 65,520bn Even for a russian 10/10er, 24/7 is hardcore NPCing :) Sure but id hope dedicated carebears would have more than 2 people in their operation ;P The Dark is Rising...
Farham Gallente Titan Industries Technology Team Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:44:00 - [42] Edited by: Farham on 22/02/2010 15:45:56 "Sure but id hope dedicated Isk Farmers would have more than 2 people in their operation ;P" Fixt for ya, lets be real at who those prices are aimed at :) While I don't PvE, being inside an alliance filled with all varieties of PVE "pros", gives me a rather informed understanding of what is going on. Not hacking it in 0.0 since 2006 Farham is my name, and fail quoting is my game.
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 15:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Sure but id hope dedicated carebears would have more than 2 people in their operation ;P You know that the entire RA leadership got banned during Delve I for renting to isk farmers right?
Ace Frehley Minmatar Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:11:00 - [44] Daumn! I think "knS-ts" needs to raise the prices, if sexy Garia say is correct, and we only ask for 200 mil/system and IT asks for 10 bil, we can raise our prices to, lets say 500mil/month, then Kneto can give me an Aeon for free without me begging and giving oral pleasure
Faekurias Caldari Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:44:00 - [45] I can see where this is going popcorns
Graalum Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Ace Frehley Daumn! I think "knS-ts" needs to raise the prices, if sexy Garia say is correct, and we only ask for 200 mil/system and IT asks for 10 bil, we can raise our prices to, lets say 500mil/month, then Kneto can give me an Aeon for free without me begging and giving oral pleasure get in line son
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious Why would you rent IT's space and not just join one of their revolving-door member corps like everyone else does? is there space to rent in syndicate? No, but I'm pretty sure getting into Systematic Chaos only requires being in the recruitment channel for about 20 minutes ~ ---
Nick Curso Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Daedhead Originally by: Morgaaan Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. Did you miss the memo about our new rentrs in PB.......now shush yer gonna scare off the customers :) Sys-k having renters is like AAA Citizens having renters, it's unfathomable. Space holding alliance can do such things Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Graalum Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Mitch Taylor The pirate detection array 5 systems yield some pretty impressive results. The key benefit over empire being the lack of agent interaction time, docking, chatting, undocking, travel etc. Ignoring all spawns but sanctums, two people ratting with decent setups (and a brain) can generate 15m per 20minutes each, or 90m an hour between them. Over the course of a day 2,160bn Over the course of a week 15,120bn Over an average month 65,520bn On top of this approx 1/10 sanctums results in an escalation which in fountain means core-x, vindi bpcs, etc (random drops but worst case scenario overseers 130m, best we saw upto 5bn in mods/bpcs) I guess the op just doesn't know how to carebear. or you could get all that in atlas space, and not pay 10bil/month
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 16:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Nick Curso Space holding alliance can do such things Have you read The Mittani's new TTH article? Apparently holding space is not as profitable as it used to be, so smart people live in NPC 0.0 LODRA and Tri are now the most intelligent and elite alliances in all of EVE.
Dianabolic Gallente Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 17:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Graalum Originally by: Mitch Taylor The pirate detection array 5 systems yield some pretty impressive results. The key benefit over empire being the lack of agent interaction time, docking, chatting, undocking, travel etc. Ignoring all spawns but sanctums, two people ratting with decent setups (and a brain) can generate 15m per 20minutes each, or 90m an hour between them. Over the course of a day 2,160bn Over the course of a week 15,120bn Over an average month 65,520bn On top of this approx 1/10 sanctums results in an escalation which in fountain means core-x, vindi bpcs, etc (random drops but worst case scenario overseers 130m, best we saw upto 5bn in mods/bpcs) I guess the op just doesn't know how to carebear. or you could get all that in atlas space, and not pay 10bil/month And if they wish to do that then by all means good luck to them.
Faekurias Caldari Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.02.22 17:06:00 - [52] ooooh that sounded like a threat.
Tung Yoggi Gallente Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.02.22 17:37:00 - [53] Ratting 23/7 to reimburse an overpriced bill seems like a truly amazing gaming experience.
Buxaroo Gallente The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 17:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Originally by: SavageBastard Thanks for that knockout analysis there guy. Now people know that if they don't have enough money then they can't afford it. You are welcome! On a related note, I should also mention that the same basic principle of "empty wallet, empty bag" applies to the automated in-game billing system. Now that is what I call owned
Freya Olaf Amarr Nex Exercitus IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 17:42:00 - [55] tbh it's not really our "offer"...it's our space, you want to use it to get rich you pay for it.
SFShootme Caldari The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone	Posted - 2010.02.22 18:22:00 - [56] can i rent it too? [VIDEO] Paroxysm
Ace Frehley Minmatar Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 18:28:00 - [57] Oki, after Graalum got his aeon, I want mine
SeIdarine Minmatar Mass Evacuation Taboo.	Posted - 2010.02.22 18:53:00 - [58] Yaay and Lady Scarlett posting in the same thread? Can we get Phreeze to post here so we can have all 3 of eves most terrible fcs in one thead
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 22/02/2010 14:25:33 Originally by: Yaay 10 billion for _one_ system? A single system will support some 20-30 people max spread over all timezones... asking more than 100M per pilot is not going to be very marketable prices... At full utilisation of level 5 mining/military upgrades that is probably right, but that would be FULL 24/7 utilisation, most alliances/corps have a clearly defined peak of activity which usually lasts no more than 6 hours. On that basis, you could probably run 2-3 alliance/corp ops a month to cover the rent, but the key issue is that other alliaces offer rental at a fraction of the price. THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT - THANKS FOR THE CONFIRMATION.
Pubsey Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:08:00 - [60] Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious Why would you rent IT's space and not just join one of their revolving-door member corps like everyone else does? :iiam:
Major Raditz Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:08:00 - [61] Sniping page 3
Omeega Amarr Lethal Corp RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:09:00 - [62] Originally by: Daedhead Originally by: Mitch Taylor Sure but id hope dedicated carebears would have more than 2 people in their operation ;P You know that the entire RA leadership got banned during Delve I for renting to isk farmers right? Not the whole RA leadership. One guy. (the one with the alliance wallet - stoopid russians!) Don't speak english, f1,f2,f3...
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:10:00 - [63] Originally by: Freya Olaf tbh it's not really our "offer"...it's our space, you want to use it to get rich you pay for it. Since I am not an indy guy, I had to solicit others input on the offer - which at first I thought would garner some chuckles, but now I see it is actually a serious thing rather than the humorous rejection that I thought it was. LOL All the more reason for CCP to fully implement the intent of Domininion - i.e. put a cap on large alliance holdings so that others have access to 0.0 space too.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:16:00 - [64] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 22/02/2010 19:17:18 Originally by: Daco Cutter Even better question is since this is a cesspit of the forums, how easy was it for him to come up with that just to flame them, or more plausible to get himself attention because he is feeling un-noticed.......... Flames & attention? LOL I'm way too old in RL to have such needs, Daco - I've gotten the input I wanted, which has helped me see the basis for their figures... I still think it's robbery and way over the top... but since I'm not an indy person, I have a bit better perspective now. Thanks.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:21:00 - [65] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Freya Olaf tbh it's not really our "offer"...it's our space, you want to use it to get rich you pay for it. Since I am not an indy guy, I had to solicit others input on the offer - which at first I thought would garner some chuckles, but now I see it is actually a serious thing rather than the humorous rejection that I thought it was. LOL All the more reason for CCP to fully implement the intent of Domininion - i.e. put a cap on large alliance holdings so that others have access to 0.0 space too. Dominion has been implemented. There are a lot more unclaimed space around than before Dominion - So, go claim it. I'm sorry but you cant patch strength in numbers (ie. people getting together in massive numbers and rolling over people), which I'm very sure many a goonies/the usual crowd will say about IT..blob warfare. I mean, there is certainly no skill involved..so with that in mind, come and get it..if you cant, well then its not yours take and have access to in the first place. No patch or expansion can change that. What you can do though, is wait around for the next big failure that means IT losing its space and hope the people who take it from us will grant you a piece of it. shrugs I doubt they will though..give you a piece that is. People are strangely greedy like that.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:22:00 - [66] Originally by: Pubsey Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious Why would you rent IT's space and not just join one of their revolving-door member corps like everyone else does? :iiam: I'm too independent I guess - I detest slavery - so, it's not going to happen. LOL
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Freya Olaf tbh it's not really our "offer"...it's our space, you want to use it to get rich you pay for it. Since I am not an indy guy, I had to solicit others input on the offer - which at first I thought would garner some chuckles, but now I see it is actually a serious thing rather than the humorous rejection that I thought it was. LOL All the more reason for CCP to fully implement the intent of Domininion - i.e. put a cap on large alliance holdings so that others have access to 0.0 space too. You have a chance to rent to the infamous IT Alliance, and rat 24/7 in Blood space! Only an idiot would refuse that offer! Triple sov costs, make station systems capable of holding 5x as many ratters via cosmic anomalies. That's the only way to make space empires shrink so the little guys can get in.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:27:00 - [68] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 22/02/2010 19:30:13 Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Freya Olaf tbh it's not really our "offer"...it's our space, you want to use it to get rich you pay for it. Since I am not an indy guy, I had to solicit others input on the offer - which at first I thought would garner some chuckles, but now I see it is actuallyserious thing rather than the humorous rejection that I thought it was. LOL All the more reason for CCP to fully implement the intent of Domininion - i.e. put a cap on large alliance holdings so that others have access to 0.0 space too. Dominion has been implemented. There are a lot more unclaimed space around than before Dominion - So, go claim it. I'm sorry but you cant patch strength in numbers (ie. people getting together in massive numbers and rolling over people), which I'm very sure many a goonies/the usual crowd will say about IT..blob warfare. I mean, there is certainly no skill involved..so with that in mind, come and get it..if you cant, well then its not yours take and have access to in the first place. No patch or expansion can change that. What you can do though, is wait around for the next big failure that means IT losing its space and hope the people who take it from us will grant you a piece of it. shrugs I doubt they will though..give you a piece that is. People are strangely greedy like that. OF COURSE YOU LARGE ALLIANCE FOLKS WILL SAY SUCH THINGS - THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE'S MINDS WHO SIT WITH OTHERS IN "POWER," ESPECIALLY WHEN IDEAS ARE PRESENTED WHICH THREATEN THAT POWER. DOMINION IS FAIL AND THERE ARE FEW OPEN SYSTEMS RELATIVE TO WHAT EXISTS. SO, I SAY CLIP THE LARGE ALLIANCES DOWN TO SOMETHING MORE REASONABLE TO AVOID HAVING A FEW LARGE ALLIANCES HAVE AN INAPPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF CONTROL / INFLUENCE OVER EVE.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:40:00 - [69] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 22/02/2010 19:40:42 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Freya Olaf tbh it's not really our "offer"...it's our space, you want to use it to get rich you pay for it. Since I am not an indy guy, I had to solicit others input on the offer - which at first I thought would garner some chuckles, but now I see it is actuallyserious thing rather than the humorous rejection that I thought it was. LOL All the more reason for CCP to fully implement the intent of Domininion - i.e. put a cap on large alliance holdings so that others have access to 0.0 space too. Dominion has been implemented. There are a lot more unclaimed space around than before Dominion - So, go claim it. I'm sorry but you cant patch strength in numbers (ie. people getting together in massive numbers and rolling over people), which I'm very sure many a goonies/the usual crowd will say about IT..blob warfare. I mean, there is certainly no skill involved..so with that in mind, come and get it..if you cant, well then its not yours take and have access to in the first place. No patch or expansion can change that. What you can do though, is wait around for the next big failure that means IT losing its space and hope the people who take it from us will grant you a piece of it. shrugs I doubt they will though..give you a piece that is. People are strangely greedy like that. OF COURSE YOU LARGE ALLIANCE FOLKS WILL SAY SUCH THINGS - THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE'S MINDS WHO SIT WITH OTHRS IN "POWER," ESPECIALLY WHEN IDEAS ARE PRESENTED WHICH THREATEN THAT POWER. DOMINION IS FAIL AND THERE ARE FEW OPEN SYSTEMS RELATIVE TO WHAT EXISTS. SO, I SAY CLIP THE LARGE ALLIANCES DOWN TO SOMETHING MORE REASONABLE TO AVOID HAVING A FEW LARGE ALLIANCES HAVE AN INAPPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF CONTROL / INFLUENCE OVER EVE. Let me see if I understand you correctly... You want CCP, to reduce the ability of people ganging together into large cohesive alliances by some form of patch or expansion. Is that right? First of all may I please suggest you apply a broader perspective and a considerable larger amount of thought being put into what you say before you say it. Here is why: You can't clip large alliances down to something "more resonable" (whatever that is to you personally Sir). If you were to limit alliances to..say...500 people..or 400 people. All you'd get is a multitude of smaller alliances existing in the same area called "IT 1" "IT 2" "IT 3" "IT..you get it", and the same space would be held. All alliances are, are a functionality to hold space..thats all alliances do. Give you the ability to claim a system..otherwise everything remains the same. So..now what? You have a lot of small alliances doing the same thing and a sudden new thing..you have created a problem of large corporations that are 500+ big in members, as being unable to create or be in alliances..Well thats pretty stupid isn't it? You've solved nothing and created problems..maybe thats why they haven't done it. Thought about that? Second of all..No, my mentality and perspective of the whole thing is not affected by me being in IT. While I admit its a nice place to be, it is no basis for my reasoning or opinion. Third of all, Dominion is not fail..or perhaps you haven't seen the amount of systems now open to occupation. My guess is you haven't..now these systems might be in the vicinity of a major alliance that probably wont let you take those systems, sure enough..but really, that has nothing to do with mechanics.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:50:00 - [70] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 22/02/2010 19:51:29 Originally by: Cadela Fria Let me see if I understand you correctly... You want CCP, to reduce the ability of people ganging together into large cohesive alliances by some form of patch or expansion. Is that right? First of all may I please suggest you apply a broader perspective and a considerable larger amount of thought being put into what you say before you say it. Here is why: You can't clip large alliances down to something "more resonable" (whatever that is to you personally Sir). If you were to limit alliances to..say...500 people..or 400 people. All you'd get is a multitude of smaller alliances existing in the same area called "IT 1" "IT 2" "IT 3" "IT..you get it", and the same space would be held. All alliances are, are a functionality to hold space..thats all alliances do. Give you the ability to claim a system..otherwise everything remains the same. So..now what? You have a lot of small alliances doing the same thing and a sudden new thing..you have created a problem of large corporations that are 500+ big in members, as being unable to create or be in alliances..Well thats pretty stupid isn't it? You've solved nothing and created problems..maybe thats why they haven't done it. Thought about that? Second of all..No, my mentality and perspective of the whole thing is not affected by me being in IT. While I admit its a nice place to be, it is no basis for my reasoning or opinion. Third of all, Dominion is not fail..or perhaps you haven't seen the amount of systems now open to occupation. My guess is you haven't..now these systems might be in the vicinity of a major alliance that probably wont let you take those systems, sure enough..but really, that has nothing to do with mechanics.[/quote CLEARLY YOU DID NOT READ THE LINK PROVIDED IN THE THREAD STARTER - THE LIMITS I REFER TO HAVE TO DO WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE ALLIANCE VS. THE NUMBER OF SYSTEMS THEY CAN HOLD... AND TIE COSTS TO IT AS INDICATED IN THAT LINK. AND YES, DOMINION IS FAIL BECAUSE IT DID NOT OPEN UP 0.0 SPACE LIKE CCP HAD HOPED OR LED US ALL TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY WANTED. YOU CAN PRETEND THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SHOVE ASIDE YOUR BIASES, THOSE OF US WHO ARE OLDER AND WISER IN R.L. KNOW BETTER... WHEREVER YOU GO, THERE YOUR BIASES ARE, RIGHT THERE WITH YOU.
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:51:00 - [71] people complaining about human nature itt
The Ratfink Minmatar Reluctant Warriors	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Daedhead lodra thinking they are relevant itt
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 19:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar CLEARLY YOU DID NOT READ THE LINK PROVIDED IN THE THREAD STARTER - THE LIMITS I REFER TO HAVE TO DO WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE ALLIANCE VS. THE NUMBER OF SYSTEMS THEY CAN HOLD... AND TIE COSTS TO IT AS INDICATED IN THAT LINK. AND YES, DOMINION IS FAIL BECAUSE IT DID NOT OPEN UP 0.0 SPACE LIKE CCP HAD HOPED OR LED US ALL TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY WANTED Dominion has dramatically increased the cost of holding space in 0.0 and also increased the risk by cheaping out on the stuff you can get in 0.0 What do I mean by that? Well take for instance Cyno Jammers and Jump Bridges - These are by and large considered extremely important, if not vital to some in keeping their space. Now with Dominion, these "upgrades" cost an ungodly amount of money to run, and even more money to run in any greater numbers for a greater period of time. A lot of space is essentially wide open to invade as I know for a fact a lot of alliances dont put up these cyno jammers and bridges anymore. Also, please consider what you're saying..artificial means to prevent going above a certain number of systems held by an alliance? That is not only a bad idea, its also really bad PR on EVE's image on what it keeps saying it wants to be. As far as the cost..well I already explained that..it really is very expensive to own a lot of space if you want it nice and secure. If you want to cut costs, you risk a lot. So no..Dominion is not fail. Finally, no I didn't read the link as I wasn't given the memo about needing to do so in order to reply to a thread about my own alliance. Meaning..I didn't read it cause frankly I don't give a toss about what it says. Even less considering its some dude complaining about our rental prices..which is..funnily enough OUR rental prices.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:02:00 - [74] Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Imperator Ceasar CLEARLY YOU DID NOT READ THE LINK PROVIDED IN THE THREAD STARTER - THE LIMITS I REFER TO HAVE TO DO WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE ALLIANCE VS. THE NUMBER OF SYSTEMS THEY CAN HOLD... AND TIE COSTS TO IT AS INDICATED IN THAT LINK. AND YES, DOMINION IS FAIL BECAUSE IT DID NOT OPEN UP 0.0 SPACE LIKE CCP HAD HOPED OR LED US ALL TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY WANTED Dominion has dramatically increased the cost of holding space in 0.0 and also increased the risk by cheaping out on the stuff you can get in 0.0 What do I mean by that? Well take for instance Cyno Jammers and Jump Bridges - These are by and large considered extremely important, if not vital to some in keeping their space. Now with Dominion, these "upgrades" cost an ungodly amount of money to run, and even more money to run in any greater numbers for a greater period of time. A lot of space is essentially wide open to invade as I know for a fact a lot of alliances dont put up these cyno jammers and bridges anymore. Also, please consider what you're saying..artificial means to prevent going above a certain number of systems held by an alliance? That is not only a bad idea, its also really bad PR on EVE's image on what it keeps saying it wants to be. As far as the cost..well I already explained that..it really is very expensive to own a lot of space if you want it nice and secure. If you want to cut costs, you risk a lot. So no..Dominion is not fail. Finally, no I didn't read the link as I wasn't given the memo about needing to do so in order to reply to a thread about my own alliance. Meaning..I didn't read it cause frankly I don't give a toss about what it says. Even less considering its some dude complaining about our rental prices..which is..funnily enough OUR rental prices. I DISAGREE - THE REAL PR ISSUE IS NEWER PILOTS FIGURING OUT THEY ARE PREVENTED FROM HAVING READY ACCESS TO 0.0 SPACE BECAUSE LARGE ALLIANCES PREVENT / DRAMATCALLY LIMIT ACCESS AND REQUIRE JOINING THEM OR PAYING OUTRAGEOUS FEES FOR ACCESS.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:09:00 - [75] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Imperator Ceasar CLEARLY YOU DID NOT READ THE LINK PROVIDED IN THE THREAD STARTER - THE LIMITS I REFER TO HAVE TO DO WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE ALLIANCE VS. THE NUMBER OF SYSTEMS THEY CAN HOLD... AND TIE COSTS TO IT AS INDICATED IN THAT LINK. AND YES, DOMINION IS FAIL BECAUSE IT DID NOT OPEN UP 0.0 SPACE LIKE CCP HAD HOPED OR LED US ALL TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY WANTED Dominion has dramatically increased the cost of holding space in 0.0 and also increased the risk by cheaping out on the stuff you can get in 0.0 What do I mean by that? Well take for instance Cyno Jammers and Jump Bridges - These are by and large considered extremely important, if not vital to some in keeping their space. Now with Dominion, these "upgrades" cost an ungodly amount of money to run, and even more money to run in any greater numbers for a greater period of time. A lot of space is essentially wide open to invade as I know for a fact a lot of alliances dont put up these cyno jammers and bridges anymore. Also, please consider what you're saying..artificial means to prevent going above a certain number of systems held by an alliance? That is not only a bad idea, its also really bad PR on EVE's image on what it keeps saying it wants to be. As far as the cost..well I already explained that..it really is very expensive to own a lot of space if you want it nice and secure. If you want to cut costs, you risk a lot. So no..Dominion is not fail. Finally, no I didn't read the link as I wasn't given the memo about needing to do so in order to reply to a thread about my own alliance. Meaning..I didn't read it cause frankly I don't give a toss about what it says. Even less considering its some dude complaining about our rental prices..which is..funnily enough OUR rental prices. I DISAGREE - THE REAL PR ISSUE IS NEWER PILOTS FIGURING OUT THEY ARE PREVENTED FROM HAVING READY ACCESS TO 0.0 SPACE BECAUSE LARGE ALLIANCES PREVENT / DRAMATCALLY LIMIT ACCESS AND REQUIRE JOINING THEM OR PAYING OUTRAGEOUS FEES FOR ACCESS. Sidenote: Really..no one here has a problem reading regular text, so go ahead and push that caps lock once to turn it off. You may disagree, but really what you're saying is backwards. You want alliances to pay more for the space they hold, and ask for less money from people who want to rent their space..You go ahead and convince people to do that. As for newer pilots and access to 0.0 space..what are you nuts? You already said you want alliances to pay more than the great increase in cost in owning 0.0 space now since Dominion..and then you want newer players to be able to get access. Catch 22 dude, hello? You cant "punish" one group of people in particular..if one group of people has to be forced out of their space due to major financial costs of owning 0.0 space, then so will everyone, and then guess what..your so called "newer pilots" still wont have access. Why? Because its too expensive.
SeIdarine Minmatar Mass Evacuation Taboo.	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:12:00 - [76] I hear that IT will give fountain to whoever can go kill the worthless alliances that are taking sov there now. It would not take much for BLAST, Blade, etc to keel over and die and everyone knows IT would not come help them.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:16:00 - [77] Originally by: Cadela Fria You may disagree, but really what you're saying is backwards. You want alliances to pay more for the space they hold, and ask for less money from people who want to rent their space..You go ahead and convince people to do that. As for newer pilots and access to 0.0 space..what are you nuts? You already said you want alliances to pay more than the great increase in cost in owning 0.0 space now since Dominion..and then you want newer players to be able to get access. Catch 22 dude, hello? You cant "punish" one group of people in particular..if one group of people has to be forced out of their space due to major financial costs of owning 0.0 space, then so will everyone, and then guess what..your so called "newer pilots" still wont have access. Why? Because its too expensive. NO, WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF EVE BECOMES DOMINATED BY A FEW POWER BLOCKS WHO DO AS THEY WISH, HOW THEY WISH, TO WHOM THEY WISH AND EXERT TOO MUCH CONTROL OVER SPACE VIA SOV - EVE WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE . AGAIN, IF YOUI READ THE LINK IN THE THREAD STARTER, YOU'LL SEE WHAT I AM REFERRING TO. end caps.
Pubsey Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:24:00 - [78] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria You may disagree, but really what you're saying is backwards. You want alliances to pay more for the space they hold, and ask for less money from people who want to rent their space..You go ahead and convince people to do that. As for newer pilots and access to 0.0 space..what are you nuts? You already said you want alliances to pay more than the great increase in cost in owning 0.0 space now since Dominion..and then you want newer players to be able to get access. Catch 22 dude, hello? You cant "punish" one group of people in particular..if one group of people has to be forced out of their space due to major financial costs of owning 0.0 space, then so will everyone, and then guess what..your so called "newer pilots" still wont have access. Why? Because its too expensive. NO, WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF EVE BECOMES DOMINATED BY A FEW POWER BLOCKS WHO DO AS THEY WISH, HOW THEY WISH, TO WHOM THEY WISH AND EXERT TOO MUCH CONTROL OVER SPACE VIA SOV - EVE WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE . AGAIN, IF YOUI READ THE LINK IN THE THREAD STARTER, YOU'LL SEE WHAT I AM REFERRING TO. end caps. Sorry bro but all the 0.0 guys were shouting from the rooftops that dominion sucked, wouldn't deliver it's stated goals and ccp should really delay it but 0.0 wannabes who thought they'd magically get a piece of the pie because a devblog said so were all "hehe nullbear tears are the sweetest " Just would like to put it on the record that we told you so.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:30:00 - [79] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria You may disagree, but really what you're saying is backwards. You want alliances to pay more for the space they hold, and ask for less money from people who want to rent their space..You go ahead and convince people to do that. As for newer pilots and access to 0.0 space..what are you nuts? You already said you want alliances to pay more than the great increase in cost in owning 0.0 space now since Dominion..and then you want newer players to be able to get access. Catch 22 dude, hello? You cant "punish" one group of people in particular..if one group of people has to be forced out of their space due to major financial costs of owning 0.0 space, then so will everyone, and then guess what..your so called "newer pilots" still wont have access. Why? Because its too expensive. NO, WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF EVE BECOMES DOMINATED BY A FEW POWER BLOCKS WHO DO AS THEY WISH, HOW THEY WISH, TO WHOM THEY WISH AND EXERT TOO MUCH CONTROL OVER SPACE VIA SOV - EVE WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE . AGAIN, IF YOUI READ THE LINK IN THE THREAD STARTER, YOU'LL SEE WHAT I AM REFERRING TO. end caps. Okay I read your link and that doesn't really change anything. You're still going to have 5000+ people in an area, with perhaps a bit of less space..35 I believe it said. You know what will happen? The same thing..like now there will be unclaimed space, granted a LOT more of it, but in the vicinity of a major alliance, and guess what? They probably don't want new neighbors unless they can control them. The open and unclaimed space you want is there ..now...all you have to do, is go claim it. Whether or not you can or can hold onto it, well..thats not something I, nor anyone else for that matter, can tell you for certain. The simple fact is..regardless of how much space you can hold sov in, there is still 5-6000 people nearby you have to deal with. Nothing can change that. So what now? I am, as you said, not old and wise such as yourself - So I will take the stance of the student and let you tell me the solution. (No I'm not being sarcastic)
Dianabolic Gallente Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:32:00 - [80] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar System ownership should be cheap for the first 3-5 systems, but get progressively more expensive up to prohibitively expensive and limited for the max systmes owned per alliance. We agree. We said that during the consultation for Dominion, CCP even said they would implement it and we celebrated. Then they didn't. Go figure. Originally by: Imperator Ceasar One thing I do know is - power corrupts - and I think we've see in Eve just what power does to people who are ill-equipped to handle it responsibly. You are misguided to think that our terms are no based on power corrupting us. We've done space rental before, we know how it works, we have little interest in dealing with those that do not realise the value of having space within our borders - the fact that you have come to complain to the forums as your first option just goes to show that our terms are successful in weeding out those that would be more hard work to be around than we wish to put up with.
davet517 Caldari Raata Invicti Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:34:00 - [81] The fact that you would have expected anything different from that particular person/organization just shows that you need to learn a little more about the major players in Eve and how they tend to behave. The mechanics don't need to be changed, and him quoting you terms isn't a scam. It's a strategy. You might think it's an arrgoant, high-handed strategy, and it may well be, but it's a strategy regardless. Whether it's a winning or losing strategy, only time will tell. ---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out.
Rodger Wilcoe Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:43:00 - [82] Originally by: Daedhead Have you read The Mittani's new TTH article? Apparently holding space is not as profitable as it used to be, so smart people live in NPC 0.0 Goons 'got smart' after living the penthouse lifestyle on a trailer trash budget?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:44:00 - [83] I like how most of the presented math to make a renter scheme like that work out involve players that don't sleep (ie: macroratting)
Dianabolic Gallente Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 21:07:00 - [84] Edited by: Dianabolic on 22/02/2010 21:07:33 Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza I like how most of the presented math to make a renter scheme like that work out involve players that don't sleep (ie: macroratting) It's a real shame that you can't use the data presented to you to make it more "lifelike", so allow me: Originally by: Mitch Taylor Ignoring all spawns but sanctums, two people ratting with decent setups (and a brain) can generate 15m per 20minutes each, or 90m an hour between them. Over the course of a day 2,160bn Over the course of a week 15,120bn Over an average month 65,520bn That's 2 people, 2bn per 23h. So it would take 4 people, 11.5h to make the same money. After that the rewards are reduced because you don't want more than 2 x 2 groups running sanctums. Havens yield about 10m, say every 20mins again, or 60m an hour: 2 people every 23h = 1.38bn 4people = 11.5h same money so 4 people can make 3.38bn in 11 hours in one system (bounties only). so it would take 4 people about 36h to rat 10bn. Or, over 28 days, they would each have to rat for just over 1 hour per day to pay the dues. And none of this includes loot, salvage, escalations, all the associated juicy goodness of 0.0 and the complete lack of having to travel outside of one system. Hardly the terms of a macroratter, hey?
Nestor Ne'Arthe Amarr Unholy Asylum	Posted - 2010.02.22 21:31:00 - [85] I find it funny that people complain about power blocks holding space. Back in the old days, when we had like 9-12k online tops, people were still holding the same amount of space. Power blocks clashed fighting for space and kicks (and because someone's shot someone elses ship by mistake). Other power blocks were formed. You can't prevent people from banding together. Dominion opened the possibility to claim space, but if you want to do that, you need to be able to hold it, and defend it. Having a constellation neighboring with a large alliance will just get you in trouble. It's like USSR and its satellite states. They will let you have your independence, only if they don't really need you, in a sense when it is too expensive for them to have 'your' space. --
Vertumnus Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 21:46:00 - [86] Say what you want to say.. if you don't like the price move on. no need for a OMG TO COAD WE GO!!!! It comes down to, are you going to use the space... if so.. Profit.. if you are not going to use it.. go to NCP space and get blue standings that way. One thing that ccp needs to fix is this.... LVL 5 military / Indy upgrades need a freighter to move 90% of the sov one's ( jammers , bridges, ect.. ) all need a freighter moved Ihub Needs a freighter I guess CCP thinks people will just freighter in the updates / ihubs 50+ jumps (LOL) Titan Bridge them?.. how many small alliance have a titan to bridge ? Dominion was made for the smaller alliances to get space, In fact we are seeing this, but its not in the form of fighting for the space. and holding it.. its more like renting OH AND CAPS LOCK IS OVERDRIVE FOR SUPER COOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Faekurias Caldari Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:11:00 - [87] I ALSO CAN USE CAPS MUCH LIKE HAS CAN BE WHEN WHY NOT MUST SEE LIGHT WHEN SHADE WITH GREY APPLES AND ORANGES
Josh Silver Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:33:00 - [88] I for one would gladly pay 10b a month for EXCLUSIVE ACCESS (no moons please) to cosmic anomalies that are slightly worse than highsec lvl4's.
Jones Bones Minmatar Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:46:00 - [89] Things I've learned from this thread: 0.0 still sucks. IT has a failure of a sales department.
Mo'Chuisle Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:55:00 - [90] alley hoop
Goose Hypocrisy Caldari The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:55:00 - [91] Originally by: Major Raditz Sniping page 3 Nice, but page 4 is mine. -clp
davet517 Caldari Raata Invicti Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:58:00 - [92] Originally by: Vertumnus I guess CCP thinks people will just freighter in the updates / ihubs 50+ jumps (LOL) Titan Bridge them?.. how many small alliance have a titan to bridge ? We didn't have any trouble with this. We did do a couple of long freighter convoys. Favorable worm holes have allowed us to do the rest. Quote: Dominion was made for the smaller alliances to get space, In fact we are seeing this, but its not in the form of fighting for the space. and holding it.. its more like renting I think that's working as intended, and the next expansion is going to embelish on it. Those with large amounts of space right now have different strategies for how to develop and keep it. Some will take the approach of working with smaller alliances like partners, and want them to have some vested interest in their space, others will use them like disposable share-croppers. Each strategy will have near-term advantages and long term consequences. The next few years should be interesting. ---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out.
Lee Wai Gallente x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:02:00 - [93] Originally by: Jones Bones Things I've learned from this thread: 0.0 still sucks. IT has a failure of a sales department. And Goons (SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO wtf is that?!) are bitter and still feel the need to post in every single ****ing thread in here. Haleluja! --Sig--
VCBee 2fast2furious Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:10:00 - [94] Originally by: Lee Wai And Goons (SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO wtf is that?!) are bitter and still feel the need to post in every single ****ing thread in here. I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. CAOD can be so confusing
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:10:00 - [95] Originally by: Lee Wai Originally by: Jones Bones Things I've learned from this thread: 0.0 still sucks. IT has a failure of a sales department. And Goons (SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO wtf is that?!) are bitter and still feel the need to post in every single ****ing thread in here. Haleluja! never stop posting
Pubsey Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:18:00 - [96] i'm bitter as hell
Twigand Berries Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:31:00 - [97] hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys?
Pubsey Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:34:00 - [98] 4.20 trillion iskies
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:36:00 - [99] Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:37:00 - [100] Hey guys - let's ratchet down the rhetoric - I thought the IT offer was an amusing way to refuse entry, but I also wanted to see if it was way outside the realms of reality. So, I'd say I've learned a fair bit here and that my goals were met. I still maintain that large alliances should be limited somehow - power corrupts and we cannot leave it to individuals to police themselves in that regard. So, some limits need to be imposed IMO. I thought the link in the thread starter offered an interesting perspective, but I also expected large alliances to balk at it because it would interfere with their control and conquest plans. All in all, balance must be served - and righrt now, IMO again, I dont see the balance here in how things are currently.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:53:00 - [101] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Hey guys - let's ratchet down the rhetoric - I thought the IT offer was an amusing way to refuse entry, but I also wanted to see if it was way outside the realms of reality. So, I'd say I've learned a fair bit here and that my goals were met. I still maintain that large alliances should be limited somehow - power corrupts and we cannot leave it to individuals to police themselves in that regard. So, some limits need to be imposed IMO. I thought the link in the thread starter offered an interesting perspective, but I also expected large alliances to balk at it because it would interfere with their control and conquest plans. All in all, balance must be served - and righrt now, IMO again, I dont see the balance here in how things are currently. For starters I doubt there were ever any rhetoric, but fine..lets get back to fundamentals. Whats the problem? Alliances holding too much space Whats the solution? Make space holding progressively more costly based on the number of systems you hold sov in Fine..I could go with that. No sense in having sov in systems you don't use anyway. So whats the problem now? You still cant have newer players getting into 0.0 despite the greatly reduced sov holding. Why? Well you try and moving in next to 6000 people who don't want you there as a new alliance. You cant now, nor can you ever patch your way out of lots of people sticking together for a common goal. Ever..it can't happen.
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:11:00 - [102] Edited by: Eskalin on 23/02/2010 00:12:35 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Hey guys - let's ratchet down the rhetoric - I thought the IT offer was an amusing way to refuse entry, but I also wanted to see if it was way outside the realms of reality. So, I'd say I've learned a fair bit here and that my goals were met. I still maintain that large alliances should be limited somehow - power corrupts and we cannot leave it to individuals to police themselves in that regard. So, some limits need to be imposed IMO. I thought the link in the thread starter offered an interesting perspective, but I also expected large alliances to balk at it because it would interfere with their control and conquest plans. All in all, balance must be served - and righrt now, IMO again, I dont see the balance here in how things are currently. i don't believe you really understand eve, the players of eve, nor the concept of a sandbox game. maybe you would be more comfortable in a game where your content is instanced and hostile interaction with other players is more consensual. it is our space if you don't like the rates, rent elsewhere or take your own. If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:14:00 - [103] Originally by: Cadela Fria For starters I doubt there were ever any rhetoric, but fine..lets get back to fundamentals. Whats the problem? Alliances holding too much space Whats the solution? Make space holding progressively more costly based on the number of systems you hold sov in Fine..I could go with that. No sense in having sov in systems you don't use anyway. So whats the problem now? You still cant have newer players getting into 0.0 despite the greatly reduced sov holding. Why? Well you try and moving in next to 6000 people who don't want you there as a new alliance. You cant now, nor can you ever patch your way out of lots of people sticking together for a common goal. Ever..it can't happen. I'm not suggesting that anyone even try to prevent people from sticking together - but we can force alliances into holding only a maximum number of sov systems & make holding the maxium number progressively more costly and unrealistic even. Breaking up the power blocks into a mishmash of smaller alliances - ok, fine. You are advocating for somethign that services your own current interests, so quite honestly you're lacking the gravitas to make your statements stick, for that reason alone.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:19:00 - [104] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 00:25:45 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria For starters I doubt there were ever any rhetoric, but fine..lets get back to fundamentals. Whats the problem? Alliances holding too much space Whats the solution? Make space holding progressively more costly based on the number of systems you hold sov in Fine..I could go with that. No sense in having sov in systems you don't use anyway. So whats the problem now? You still cant have newer players getting into 0.0 despite the greatly reduced sov holding. Why? Well you try and moving in next to 6000 people who don't want you there as a new alliance. You cant now, nor can you ever patch your way out of lots of people sticking together for a common goal. Ever..it can't happen. I'm not suggesting that anyone even try to prevent people from sticking together - but we can force alliances into holding only a maximum number of sov systems & make holding the maxium number progressively more costly and unrealistic even. Breaking up the power blocks into a mishmash of smaller alliances - ok, fine. You are advocating for somethign that services your own current interests, so quite honestly you're lacking the gravitas to make your statements stick, for that reason alone. I'm not advocating anything..I'm poking holes in your logic and suggestions because they are not viable nor do they consider the bigger picture of EVE and the concept of 0.0 alliances in it. No matter how much you divide people by game mechanics they will always be 1 entity fighting and living together. So all you would do, is cause unnecessary problems. You can howl at my bias of being in IT as much as you want..please, go right ahead..but there will still be 6000 people in that area of space, who don't want new neighbors unless they can control them and/or get money from them. Having less sovereignty by game mechanics and "controlling" space are 2 different things..one of them you can patch to control, the other you cant. I'll let you figure out which is which. EDIT: If you think you can take and hold space while living right next door to IT, irrespective of how many sov systems we hold..350 or 35..doesn't matter. If you think you can do it, then go for it. This is not me daring you to or threatning you, it is me saying if you think you could do it with us holding 35 systems, then 350 (or however many we actually have..wait..goes to dotlan real quick)..scratch that..105, should mean just the same.
Aaron Mirrorsaver Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:21:00 - [105] Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 22/02/2010 09:19:47 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THIS HAS TO BE A "SCREW OFF" MESSAGE - OR IT IS READY TO SCAM ANYONE WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO AGREE TO THEIR SO CALLED "TERMS" - From: Dianabolic Sent: 2010.02.21 10:54 To: Imperator Ceasar, I would recommend 1M4-FK, however before we go further you should be aware of the terms if you are not already: Per system EXCLUSIVE use: Pricetag; 10 billion / month, 15 billion deposit. Renter buys ugrades, we install them Renter hauls upgrades, we anchor them Moonmining not allowed. Moonrefinieries not allowed. Obviously, you have no Idea how 0.0 mechanics work. However, that said, I'll undercut their price by 5 billion on the deposit, and 2 billion a month with all other stipulations remaining the same. We will even give you a station system with a refinery if you so desire. Our shuttle prices in station will also be under 500k each, sorry Dian, Capitalism and all. wow nothing changes. you are still a useless * and a terrible got fc. you wont have any space to rent soon anyway. so you should ask IT to rent some space in delve and querious yourself. ------ Your signature is inappropriate and is therefore locked for CCP impersonation. Please file a petition when you have an appropriate signature.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:24:00 - [106] Originally by: Eskalin i don't believe you really understand eve, the players of eve, nor the concept of a sandbox game. maybe you would be more comfortable in a game where your content is instanced and hostile interaction with other players is more consensual. it is our space if you don't like the rates, rent elsewhere or take your own. Oh, I get it believe me - I'm a field grade officer in the US Army, my friend - I'm not stupid and there is no need to talk down to me. If Eve gets out of balance and pilots become less free or coerced and/or forced into joining a power block to get the goodies of 0.0, Eve will eventually lose its appeal. So, IMO the control and reach of large alliances ought to be artificially limited, with sov being tied to member numbers and increasingly higher costs as more systems are sov'd, up to the maxium allowed (see thread starter link). The fact that you're advocating for something that benefits your own interests only means you have zero gravitas on the matter.
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:24:00 - [107] Edited by: Daedhead on 23/02/2010 00:23:54 Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver wow nothing changes. you are still a useless * and a terrible *got fc. you wont have any space to rent soon anyway. so you should ask IT to rent some space in delve and querious yourself. what
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:29:00 - [108] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 23/02/2010 00:29:56 Originally by: Cadela Fria I'm not advocating anything.. I'm poking holes in your logic and suggestions because they are not viable nor do they consider the bigger picture of EVE and the concept of 0.0 alliances in it. No matter how much you divide people by game mechanics they will always be 1 entity fighting and living together. So all you would do, is cause unnecessary problems. You can howl at my bias of being in IT as much as you want..please, go right ahead..but there will still be 6000 people in that area of space, who don't want new neighbors unless they can control them and/or get money from them. Having less sovereignty by game mechanics and "controlling" space are 2 different things..one of them you can patch to control, the other you cant. I'll let you figure out which is which. Good - I understand all that, so your continued insults insults (aka talking down to me) only serves to undermine your credibility.. Breaking them up with game mechanics is one way to put a dent in the system, and its a place I'm quite happy to start with.
Douglas Pearce Caldari Music Martinis and Misanthropy	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:30:00 - [109] Originally by: Daedhead Edited by: Daedhead on 23/02/2010 00:23:54 Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver wow nothing changes. you are still a useless * and a terrible *got fc. you wont have any space to rent soon anyway. so you should ask IT to rent some space in delve and querious yourself. what I believe he's referring to MAX2 ----------- I disagree
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:31:00 - [110] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Eskalin i don't believe you really understand eve, the players of eve, nor the concept of a sandbox game. maybe you would be more comfortable in a game where your content is instanced and hostile interaction with other players is more consensual. it is our space if you don't like the rates, rent elsewhere or take your own. Oh, I get it believe me - I'm a field grade officer in the US Army, my friend - I'm not stupid and there is no need to talk down to me. If Eve gets out of balance and pilots become less free or coerced and/or forced into joining a power block to get the goodies of 0.0, Eve will eventually lose its appeal. So, IMO the control and reach of large alliances ought to be artificially limited, with sov being tied to member numbers and increasingly higher costs as more systems are sov'd, up to the maxium allowed (see thread starter link). The fact that you're advocating for something that benefits your own interests only means you have zero gravitas on the matter. Perhaps that would be more valid if you weren't talking down to people yourself. You know how first of all you're older and wiser than the rest of us, not to mention a field grade officer in the US Army now as well, which obviously we simpletons can't meassure up to. Even more so, it would be valid if EVE had anything to do with the US Army in respects to how it works. Which it doesn't..unless the US Army is rampantly scamming, lying, ganking helpless people, stealing, flying spaceships and consists of anyone who were willing to pay money to get in. Oh..and was a video game. Theres way more to that list, but..you get the idea.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:35:00 - [111] Originally by: Cadela Fria Perhaps that would be more valid if you weren't talking down to people yourself. You know how first of all you're older and wiser than the rest of us, not to mention a field grade officer in the US Army now as well, which obviously we simpletons can't meassure up to. Even more so, it would be valid if EVE had anything to do with the US Army in respects to how it works. Which it doesn't..unless the US Army is rampantly scamming, lying, ganking helpless people, stealing, flying spaceships and consists of anyone who were willing to pay money to get in. Oh..and was a video game. Theres way more to that list, but..you get the idea. TRANSLATION: Cadela gave up the field points to white flag LOL I dont conduct myself the way you describe - and I'm glad I dont. I've made no comparisons to the Army - so dont even go there.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:43:00 - [112] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 00:46:50 Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 00:45:47 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria Perhaps that would be more valid if you weren't talking down to people yourself. You know how first of all you're older and wiser than the rest of us, not to mention a field grade officer in the US Army now as well, which obviously we simpletons can't meassure up to. Even more so, it would be valid if EVE had anything to do with the US Army in respects to how it works. Which it doesn't..unless the US Army is rampantly scamming, lying, ganking helpless people, stealing, flying spaceships and consists of anyone who were willing to pay money to get in. Oh..and was a video game. Theres way more to that list, but..you get the idea. TRANSLATION: Cadela gave up the field points to white flag LOL I dont conduct myself the way you describe - and I'm glad I dont. I've made no comparisons to the Army - so dont even go there. First you talk down to me "Translation blah blah" and then you say you don't behave that way. Well done.. And just to add insult to injury, why'd you say this then? Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THOSE OF US WHO ARE OLDER AND WISER IN R.L. KNOW BETTER... Because you didn't say that right?..well, sorry..you actually did. Secondly why'd you bring up your position in the US Army then if it wasn't to make a point in regards to EVE about it? In fact you said "I get EVE because I'm in the US Army" ...right? Or? Was it because you wanted to say you're smart? Not sure why you'd want to prove that to anyone, or would need to. Thirdly, nobody is talking down to you...Especially not me. I wouldn't dream of it. I don't agree with you though and I consider your suggestions and arguments so far to be flawed, which is why I'm debating in the first place..If I thought what you said was sound and had merit, I wouldn't be talking at all, or I'd be backing you up. If you consider that a personal insult, then really thats your own problem, not mine. EDIT: The still leaves us where there is currently 6000 people sitting in and around Delve, irrespective of how much sov those people hold. No amount of butthurt feelings can change that. If you don't want to pay the rent, or don't want to risk fighting those 6000 people over space you took right next to them, well..then don't. I mean what else do you want me to tell you?
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:47:00 - [113] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 23/02/2010 00:50:23 Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 23/02/2010 00:48:18 Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 00:45:47 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria Perhaps that would be more valid if you weren't talking down to people yourself. You know how first of all you're older and wiser than the rest of us, not to mention a field grade officer in the US Army now as well, which obviously we simpletons can't meassure up to. Even more so, it would be valid if EVE had anything to do with the US Army in respects to how it works. Which it doesn't..unless the US Army is rampantly scamming, lying, ganking helpless people, stealing, flying spaceships and consists of anyone who were willing to pay money to get in. Oh..and was a video game. Theres way more to that list, but..you get the idea. TRANSLATION: Cadela gave up the field points to white flag LOL I dont conduct myself the way you describe - and I'm glad I dont. I've made no comparisons to the Army - so dont even go there. First you talk down to me "Translation blah blah" and then you say you don't behave that way. Well done.. And just to add insult to injury, why'd you say this then? Originally by: Imperator Ceasar THOSE OF US WHO ARE OLDER AND WISER IN R.L. KNOW BETTER... Because you didn't say that right?..well, sorry..you actually did. Secondly why'd you bring up your position in the US Army then if it wasn't to make a point in regards to EVE about it? Was it because you wanted to say you're smart? Not sure why you'd want to prove that to anyone, or would need to. Thirdly, nobody is talking down to you...Especially not me. I wouldn't dream of it. I don't agree with you though and I consider your suggestions and arguments so far to be flawed, which is why I'm debating in the first place..If I thought what you said was sound and had merit, I wouldn't be talking at all, or I'd be backing you up. If you consider that a personal insult, then really thats your own problem, not mine. EDIT: The still leaves us where there is currently 6000 people sitting in and around Delve, irrespective of how much sov those people hold. No amount of butthurt feelings can change that. If you don't want to pay the rent, or don't want to risk fighting those 6000 people over space you took right next to them, well..then don't. I mean what else do you want me to tell you? I said it because of how I was talked to.... and more often than not, kids post comments here and they tend to forget adults play this game too. AND, I think you're advocating only for your poitn of view, not logic nor merits - but that is to be expected.
Lunas Whisper Minmatar The Centurions Eternus Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:56:00 - [114] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria For starters I doubt there were ever any rhetoric, but fine..lets get back to fundamentals. Whats the problem? Alliances holding too much space Whats the solution? Make space holding progressively more costly based on the number of systems you hold sov in Fine..I could go with that. No sense in having sov in systems you don't use anyway. So whats the problem now? You still cant have newer players getting into 0.0 despite the greatly reduced sov holding. Why? Well you try and moving in next to 6000 people who don't want you there as a new alliance. You cant now, nor can you ever patch your way out of lots of people sticking together for a common goal. Ever..it can't happen. I'm not suggesting that anyone even try to prevent people from sticking together - but we can force alliances into holding only a maximum number of sov systems & make holding the maxium number progressively more costly and unrealistic even. Breaking up the power blocks into a mishmash of smaller alliances - ok, fine. You are advocating for somethign that services your own current interests, so quite honestly you're lacking the gravitas to make your statements stick, for that reason alone. Imperator, that wouldn't work. Take a good look at Npc space. If a large enough alliance in npc space didn't want you there, they'd blow you up enough that you wouldn't stay there. You want 0.0 to open up, you gotta get with and work to getting a large enough alliance to push your way in, maintain the security of it. Which I might add is a pain in the bunion. United we stand, divided we fall.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:56:00 - [115] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I said it because of how I was talked to.... AND, I think you're advocating only for your poitn of view, not logic nor merits - but that is to be expected. So because people don't agree with you, you get to talk down to them and tell them to respect you..Sorry but I'm not inclined to buy that kind of excuse. Even less from someone who so mightily waves their rank in the US Army around like its a ticket to special treatment. Secondly..what exactly am I advocating? I'm curious at this point, because all I've said is that there is 6000 people in and around delve..that has nothing to do with advocating. Thats a solid fact.
Metal Dude Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 01:01:00 - [116] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I said it because of how I was talked to.... and more often than not, kids post comments here and they tend to forget adults play this game too. AND, I think you're advocating only for your poitn of view, not logic nor merits - but that is to be expected. So where are you going to take or rent space, because I will love coming there and taking it from you. Maybe you can call in US Army to help you defend it, tough guy. From the sound of you, it is more likely that you'll call the boy scouts instead. The truth will set you free
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.02.23 01:27:00 - [117] lol now this sounds like the BoB of old
Kaitou Shiroi Gallente Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2010.02.23 01:58:00 - [118] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I said it because of how I was talked to.... and more often than not, kids post comments here and they tend to forget adults play this game too. Sad part is, I think CAOD has a median age a bit higher than the general EVE population. Fake-edit: ITT a Major tries to throw his brass around and fails utterly. --- Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 02:36:00 - [119] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Oh, I get it believe me - I'm a field grade officer in the US Army, my friend - I'm not stupid and there is no need to talk down to me. If Eve gets out of balance and pilots become less free or coerced and/or forced into joining a power block to get the goodies of 0.0, Eve will eventually lose its appeal. So, IMO the control and reach of large alliances ought to be artificially limited, with sov being tied to member numbers and increasingly higher costs as more systems are sov'd, up to the maxium allowed (see thread starter link). The fact that you're advocating for something that benefits your own interests only means you have zero gravitas on the matter. you are operating under the misconception that i was speaking down to you. since you seem to imply that your rl job infers privilege in a video game i will now proceed to do so. in response to your accusation of zero gravitas i say you sir have zero dignitas. exemplified by your appearance upon these forums expounding upon the unfair practices of the holders of the nul-sec real estate you where inquiring. your inability to use use your leadership skills in acquiring space/compatriots to conquer space hardly needs mitigation by artificial means ie. ccp changing game mechanics to suit your playstyle/ability. from my point of view you would be guilty of an absense of gravitas in seeking the mecanics to change to more suite your interests. thank you hypocrite. If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
Anikadir Minmatar DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 02:38:00 - [120] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I said it because of how I was talked to.... and more often than not, kids post comments here and they tend to forget adults play this game too. AND, I think you're advocating only for your poitn of view, not logic nor merits - but that is to be expected. Umm ..... hello ..... you do realise that this is the internet? You'd have more luck trying to get a rational discussion point out of a toaster than in the paosting board of an online game First there was Meh, now there is Bleh.
Svett Caldari The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 03:05:00 - [121] A few people in bounty alone can get 4b+ a day from anoms.
OldPueblo Gallente DarkStar 1 SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 03:07:00 - [122] "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got.
Omniwar Caldari Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 03:10:00 - [123] I saw this documentary once about how the US Army activly aimed to reqruit the poor and often less intelligent to fill their ranks
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.02.23 03:28:00 - [124] Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 23/02/2010 03:29:24 Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 23/02/2010 03:28:52 Originally by: Svett A few people in bounty alone can get 4b+ a day from anoms. i read from a very reliable source that 2 guys can get 65,500b+ a month from one system with anomalies
Xunasy Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 03:36:00 - [125] Originally by: Omniwar I saw this documentary once about how the US Army activly aimed to reqruit the poor and often less intelligent to fill their ranks You mean all armies ever right?
Graalum Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 04:09:00 - [126] Originally by: Omniwar I saw this documentary once about how the US Army activly aimed to reqruit the poor and often less intelligent to fill their ranks he's probably a 2004-2008 recruit, aka the worst group of recruits in the history of the us army, ever.
Slay Deathdealer Amarr Sleepless Psychos	Posted - 2010.02.23 05:35:00 - [127] Originally by: Graalum Originally by: Omniwar I saw this documentary once about how the US Army activly aimed to reqruit the poor and often less intelligent to fill their ranks he's probably a 2004-2008 recruit, aka the worst group of recruits in the history of the us army, ever. Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. On-topic - I can understand both sides of the situation. IT owns the area he wants to inhabit and exploit for his personal/corp gain and IT has every right to charge whatever they want. It's their region, either take it by force or find your 0.0 experience elsewhere. Op considers the amount to be too much, which I think is quite steep as well. I'm sure this is just my take on it, but I think the Op feels entitled to every aspect of the game. When I first started playing the game I was told about this mysterious 0.0 region, I was quite intrigued to go explore. A place where it was basically the wild west and vast isks could be made; however, big alliances would kill you on site if you tresspassed. I eventually came to acceptance that unless I was part of these "big bullies" I'd have to fly elsewhere in eve to seek out my stakes. I guess he hasn't gotten that far yet.
Psorion Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 06:39:00 - [128] WormHoles All the danger of 0.0 without the travel time.
OldPueblo Gallente DarkStar 1 SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 06:44:00 - [129] Originally by: Omniwar I saw this documentary once about how the US Army activly aimed to reqruit the poor and often less intelligent to fill their ranks Define irony.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 06:59:00 - [130] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 07:01:13 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Originally by: Graalum Originally by: Omniwar I saw this documentary once about how the US Army activly aimed to reqruit the poor and often less intelligent to fill their ranks he's probably a 2004-2008 recruit, aka the worst group of recruits in the history of the us army, ever. Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. On-topic - I can understand both sides of the situation. IT owns the area he wants to inhabit and exploit for his personal/corp gain and IT has every right to charge whatever they want. It's their region, either take it by force or find your 0.0 experience elsewhere. Op considers the amount to be too much, which I think is quite steep as well. I'm sure this is just my take on it, but I think the Op feels entitled to every aspect of the game. When I first started playing the game I was told about this mysterious 0.0 region, I was quite intrigued to go explore. A place where it was basically the wild west and vast isks could be made; however, big alliances would kill you on site if you tresspassed. I eventually came to acceptance that unless I was part of these "big bullies" I'd have to fly elsewhere in eve to seek out my stakes. I guess he hasn't gotten that far yet. Remarking on the off-topic bit: Being part of your nation's military in some respect or another does not automatically grant you the "Give me special treatment while I'm an a-hole to everyone else" card...Much less does it provide you with solid ground for your arguments being true. If you're wrong, you're wrong..simple as that. The fact that I'm not American is not really a relevant point to make, but if you really have to go that route in regards to the OP and his nation having to respect him, well there you are. Remarking on the on-topic bit: Look..it isn't as though we (IT) can't see the frustration..after having a talk with dianabolic in private, it seems our organisation largely rooted for the kind of change back before Dominion that the OP wants now, but we were more or less scolded by the general populace at the time ("sweet sweet 0.0 tears" and all that jazz) and now its more a case of "We told you so..." . Now I admit I didn't know that part myself until I had talked with dianabolic, but that doesn't invalidate my fundamental argument, which is this: No matter what progressive costs you put in, no matter how much you reduce sov holding of major alliances..be it down to 40, 30..or even 10 systems..you will still not be able to patch your way out of the fact that there is a group of 6000 people who don't want you (figuratively) near them unless you pay them/get controlled by them.
Slay Deathdealer Amarr Sleepless Psychos	Posted - 2010.02.23 07:45:00 - [131] Cadela Fria: First you should re-read the quotes in my message. Once you've done that, please tell me where I stated that the Op being in the military automatically validated any of his ideas/thoughts on the 0.0 situation for smaller entities. (Myabe it would be better understood as Off-topic/OUT of GAME)
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 08:19:00 - [132] Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Cadela Fria: First you should re-read the quotes in my message. Once you've done that, please tell me where I stated that the Op being in the military automatically validated any of his ideas/thoughts on the 0.0 situation for smaller entities. (Myabe it would be better understood as Off-topic/OUT of GAME) I didn't say that you did. I was just making that point clear out of a loose statement saying that he (the OP) more or less deserved respect due to his affilliation with his nation's military.
Teckos Pech Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 08:31:00 - [133] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Oh, I get it believe me - I'm a field grade officer in the US Army, my friend - I'm not stupid and there is no need to talk down to me. Right which is why you talk about forcing everyone else to play the game the way you think it should be played. You just don't understand the game.
Edna Sputum Caldari Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.02.23 08:55:00 - [134] It's definitely a "Dear Ceasar GTFO" price. It Alliance may be lots of things, but you can't say they don't know the value of space is. and one system without moons is NOT worth anything close to 15 billion. If it were, Everyone would be fliying around in Titans and faction ships. Inflation on teh Eve market would be skyrocketing. BUt it's not. IT quoting 15 billion to you is their way of saying they don't want you... and if you insist on working with them they'll make you pay for the priviledge. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:00:00 - [135] It doesn't really matter how much ISK you can make with Level 5 upgrades (and yes, it is a lot), the fact is that renting space is subject to the same market forces as anything else in EVE. And there are MUCH cheaper options. Still, nice of them to anchor the upgrades for you. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:37:00 - [136] This thread is experiencing a significant gravitas shortfall.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:39:00 - [137] Originally by: Borza Slavak This thread is experiencing a significant gravitas shortfall. omg please..I beg of you..don't let "gravitas" become the next meme -.-
The Ratfink Minmatar Reluctant Warriors	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:42:00 - [138] Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. "lol we are still relevant." Is all I got from your post about someone else's post.
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:46:00 - [139] Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Borza Slavak This thread is experiencing a significant gravitas shortfall. omg please..I beg of you..don't let "gravitas" become the next meme -.- and it's done. thanks cadela for jinxing it nothing but internet spaceship gravitas for the next few months If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
Estios Minmatar Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 13:02:00 - [140] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Eskalin Obvious facts . Oh, I get it believe me - I'm a field grade officer in the US Army, my friend - I'm not stupid and there is no need to talk down to me. I am Albert Eistein and I will talk down to whoever I like, Sir. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
VonKaplanek III Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 13:30:00 - [141] Originally by: SeIdarine Yaay and Lady Scarlett posting in the same thread? Can we get Phreeze to post here so we can have all 3 of eves most terrible fcs in one thead I guess she told you that you could not come back to DICE. Seriously friend don't harbour grudges, it eats you up inside and can cause stress which leads to many many complications.
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 13:32:00 - [142] Originally by: VonKaplanek III Originally by: SeIdarine Yaay and Lady Scarlett posting in the same thread? Can we get Phreeze to post here so we can have all 3 of eves most terrible fcs in one thead I guess she told you that you could not come back to DICE. Seriously friend don't harbour grudges, it eats you up inside and can cause stress which leads to many many complications. Much like being overweight amirite?
Le Cardinal Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 13:56:00 - [143] Originally by: Daedhead Originally by: VonKaplanek III Originally by: SeIdarine Yaay and Lady Scarlett posting in the same thread? Can we get Phreeze to post here so we can have all 3 of eves most terrible fcs in one thead I guess she told you that you could not come back to DICE. Seriously friend don't harbour grudges, it eats you up inside and can cause stress which leads to many many complications. Much like being overweight amirite? More like being irrelevant in 0.0 politics. Amirite?
Graalum Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 14:06:00 - [144] Edited by: Graalum on 23/02/2010 14:07:32 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. false.
Ace Frehley Minmatar Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 14:23:00 - [145] For 2 billions a month I can give you access to a calm system.. Hit me up ingame (I need that aeon now)
Faekurias Caldari Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.02.23 14:36:00 - [146] Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too?
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:31:00 - [147] Originally by: Edna Sputum It's definitely a "Dear Ceasar GTFO" price. It Alliance may be lots of things, but you can't say they don't know the value of space is. and one system without moons is NOT worth anything close to 15 billion. If it were, Everyone would be fliying around in Titans and faction ships. Inflation on teh Eve market would be skyrocketing. BUt it's not. IT quoting 15 billion to you is their way of saying they don't want you... and if you insist on working with them they'll make you pay for the priviledge. That's why I posted the thread in the first place. LOL
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:38:00 - [148] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 23/02/2010 18:38:56 It's amazing how easily people will put their hate, rudeness, greed, little dictator mentalities, dishonorable motives and immaturity on public display so easily. Wow - that's all I can say.
Sephiroth CloneIIV Gallente Copia-WarRages Armaments Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:40:00 - [149] To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. Key - Alliance name: Damage Type it uses (Damage to use against it) Atlas: gay (aids cure) Northern Coalition: COAD spam (multiple front war) IT: ccp exploit (spy)
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:45:00 - [150] Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I said it because of how I was talked to.... AND, I think you're advocating only for your poitn of view, not logic nor merits - but that is to be expected. So because people don't agree with you, you get to talk down to them and tell them to respect you..Sorry but I'm not inclined to buy that kind of excuse. Even less from someone who so mightily waves their rank in the US Army around like its a ticket to special treatment. Secondly..what exactly am I advocating? I'm curious at this point, because all I've said is that there is 6000 people in and around delve..that has nothing to do with advocating. Thats a solid fact. Clearly I've responded "in kind" to what was aimed at me, if that is the conclusion you're so willing to adopt about my responses. What are you advocating for? That's easy - maintaining mechanics in Eve that dont undermine your power block and trying to repudiate anyone who suggests another path to making all of Eve more accessible.
nakKEDK Gallente x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:47:00 - [151] Edited by: nakKEDK on 23/02/2010 18:50:10 Edited by: nakKEDK on 23/02/2010 18:47:45 Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Quote: "Hasan reportedly jumped onto a desk and shouted: "Allahu Akbar!" Feel bad about myself, but it was funny Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. check this Linkage realedit: sniped k
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:52:00 - [152] Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. I'm not necessarily complaining, per se. I've pointed out something because I thought it was an outrageous price tag, but wasnt sure of the numbers - so I posted those numbers here for feedback. And you're right - acting like Eve is a job defeats the purpose of the game, so like you I see that the expectations of large alliances like IT are simply outrageous... people do not play Eve to become slaves.
Homo Erectus Amarr Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:55:00 - [153] Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup
FOl2TY8 Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:05:00 - [154] Originally by: Homo Erectus sup aww look at all that hard work
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:10:00 - [155] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 23/02/2010 19:13:53 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. I'm not necessarily complaining, per se. I've pointed out something because I thought it was an outrageous price tag, but wasnt sure of the numbers - so I posted those numbers here for feedback. And you're right - acting like Eve is a job defeats the purpose of the game, so like you I see that the expectations of large alliances like IT are simply outrageous... people do not play Eve to become slaves. Uh yes..you are complaining. That was the whole premise of your thread and most of your replies..complaining about prices, alliance sizes, sovereignty and people not respecting you and so on. I was nice about it and tried to explain it to you, and when you finally couldn't complain your way out of it anymore and couldn't tell me what I was advocating, you stopped replying and refused to own up. So honestly..all I have left to say is: Deal with IT (pun intended) or go somewhere else.
Homo Erectus Amarr Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:16:00 - [156] Originally by: FOl2TY8 aww look at all that hard work
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:19:00 - [157] Originally by: Cadela Fria Uh yes..you are complaining. That was the whole premise of your thread and most of your replies..complaining about prices, alliance sizes, sovereignty and people not respecting you and so on. I was nice about it and tried to explain it to you, and when you finally couldn't complain your way out of it anymore and couldn't tell me what I was advocating, you stopped replying and refused to own up. So honestly..all I have left to say is: Deal with IT (pun intended) or go somewhere else. Courtesy is a fickle thing - I've told you what you're advocating for... just now. I dont have time to sit on these forums 24/7 to respond to you. And, there is nothing to own up to... rightly or wrongly I responded in kind to someone's discourtesy/rudeness and I tried to point out that not everyone is a 16yr old in this game. So, you're right - there is nothing else to say.
Cadela Fria Amarr x13 IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 19:46:00 - [158] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar I've told you what you're advocating for... just now. And it is...what?
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:03:00 - [159] What link do I get for saying "T20"?
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:04:00 - [160] Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Dont forget this - following orders without question in ones national army is truly worthy of respect ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Pubsey Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:13:00 - [161] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup idgi
Vertumnus Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 20:41:00 - [162] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV To the complainer of alliances holding space this is eve online, not wow, not hello kitty. Mean basterds take over everthing that is concorable or worth taking, to get a peice of the pie either you side with one group or you side with another. I think IT is setting rediclous rates just to show they can, and they probably don't want to realy rent out space. Expecting a person to play/rat 12-24 hours per day lol, thats worse then a 8 hour job. I'm not necessarily complaining, per se. I've pointed out something because I thought it was an outrageous price tag, but wasnt sure of the numbers - so I posted those numbers here for feedback. And you're right - acting like Eve is a job defeats the purpose of the game, so like you I see that the expectations of large alliances like IT are simply outrageous... people do not play Eve to become slaves. I believe the terms are for your corporation/alliance. I don't know what the details are but think of it like this... Its not just you using the system, say you have 30 people in your corporation that is active... and that will use the system, mining/ratting/anoms ect.. You charge each member 300mill to use the system 300*30 = 9bill. now from you % TAX via corp lvl with all this ratting and what not, should cover the extra 1 bill 300 mill ratting, would take your ordinary joe 3-5 days ratting to pay, less time if he gets faction spawns. Correct me if I am wrong but, if you wanted to rent space, would you not use it? Do what you want to do. but im just saying its not hard to come up with the isk if others are willing to help pay for things. Eve now is evolving to where you need your members to help everyone out for the common good.
VCBee 2fast2furious Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.23 21:36:00 - [163] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Dont forget this - following orders without question in ones national army is truly worthy of respect :godwin:
Tornim Minmatar Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:08:00 - [164] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Cadela Fria Uh yes..you are complaining. That was the whole premise of your thread and most of your replies..complaining about prices, alliance sizes, sovereignty and people not respecting you and so on. I was nice about it and tried to explain it to you, and when you finally couldn't complain your way out of it anymore and couldn't tell me what I was advocating, you stopped replying and refused to own up. So honestly..all I have left to say is: Deal with IT (pun intended) or go somewhere else. Courtesy is a fickle thing - I've told you what you're advocating for... just now. I dont have time to sit on these forums 24/7 to respond to you. And, there is nothing to own up to... rightly or wrongly I responded in kind to someone's discourtesy/rudeness and I tried to point out that not everyone is a 16yr old in this game. So, you're right - there is nothing else to say. Imperator, You have refused to see their side of the debate as you have claimed they refuse to see yours. They have brought up multiple points and counters to your arguments which you ignore by saying "you're bias" or "you're just keeping your interests in mind". Now I'll agree that Domination probably didn't open up all of 0.0 like CCP and you'd like. But you haven't addressed Cadela Fria's main point, "even if IT only had 1 system, but 6k memebers they could still keep you from holding sov in systems near by that 1 system". Not being able to claim "your" sov will NOT stop IT from removing it from you if they deem to. The problem you're having is with the BLOB not the sov. As for people being rude, imo you are the one who started talking down to the people with contrary arguments first. Secondly you MUST realize that this is an internet forum, and anonymity will remove a lot of the "moral" people respond with, and get over that. Being sensitive and defensive will not make your points any more valid and they points any less. Other than that, I think this is a great discussion and bringing to light ideas and debate points I hadn't thought would be relevant. Fake Edit: 10b a month sounds HUGE on the onset, but (from this thread) there are other options out there.
Slay Deathdealer Amarr Sleepless Psychos	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:42:00 - [165] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 23/02/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Slay Deathdealer Off-topic - Any person that serves deserves their nation's respect. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting Really? This too? Dont forget this - following orders without question in ones national army is truly worthy of respect To make your future trolling easier, not that you need it.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:47:00 - [166] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Imperator Ceasar System ownership should be cheap for the first 3-5 systems, but get progressively more expensive up to prohibitively expensive and limited for the max systmes owned per alliance. We agree. We said that during the consultation for Dominion, CCP even said they would implement it and we celebrated. Then they didn't. Go figure. That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:03:00 - [167] Tornim - while I appreciate your courtesy and points, I am advocating for those "smaller organizations" whom I hear from constantly -- the large alliances have way too much influence where sov is concerned. I dont really care about the 1 system, 6k members denying space issue because that isnt my point at all. I see what he's saying, but that isnt germaine to the actual game mechanics I am speaking to and my advocacy for limiting the number of systems an alliance can actually claim on the map. This is why I am not really addressing Cadela's example... while what he says is true, I still think game mechanics should be altered to limit the number of systems an alliance can sov. Cadela is speaking to control - I am not. I am speaking to in-game mechanics about sov'd systems and the need for some limitations on large alliances. My bet is, people would be more willing to enter CONTROLLED territory and try to claim space if more systems were open for claiming via sov mechanics. My other bet is, such intrusions would help keep large alliances in check to some degree through the expenditure of assets such as ships, TCU's and etc. This would create, I hope, more competitiveness and sov warfare - which I think wouild make things more interesting for everyone. These static sov-dots on the map are negatives, IMO, for Eve in general and CCP should act to place limits on alliances so that despite control issues, smaller alliances can at least gain a vision of hope for acquiring space. As it stands now, large alliances can sov up a lot of space and by that mechanic alone prevent any serious intrusions into their territory by anyone except another large competing alliance. CADELA'S point of view is for maintaining the status quo because the current system serves his alliance's best interests, as well as his own. I've told him this already, yet he refuses to acknowledge this point.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:09:00 - [168] Originally by: Avernus That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations. I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm saying about splitting up the sov'd space into smaller "chunks" of INTERESTS - I think this would help invigorate the world of Eve. And I like your idea of making stations reclaimable - GREAT IDEA!
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:31:00 - [169] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Avernus That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations. I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm saying about splitting up the sov'd space into smaller "chunks" of INTERESTS - I think this would help invigorate the world of Eve. And I like your idea of making stations reclaimable - GREAT IDEA! Have to admit, I like the thought of changing Eve topography. More than that, you know you've really owned an opponent when you've taken his space, decided you don't want it for yourself and can't sell it off... so you dismantle their stations for profit, and head home.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:32:00 - [170] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Avernus That would have been kind of cool. Splitting up 0.0 into smaller chunks of interest would be good for the game I think, but established space holding alliances would be in a serious bind when that system was introduced... how does one go about ridding themselves of excess space that they've built stations in? ...would require allowing alliances the ability to 'salvage' their own stations. I'm glad someone finally sees what I'm saying about splitting up the sov'd space into smaller "chunks" of INTERESTS - I think this would help invigorate the world of Eve. And I like your idea of making stations reclaimable - GREAT IDEA! Have to admit, I like the thought of changing Eve topography. More than that, you know you've really owned an opponent when you've taken his space, decided you don't want it for yourself and can't sell it off... so you dismantle their stations for profit, and head home. Dang Avernus - good point!
Tornim Minmatar Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:45:00 - [171] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Cadela is speaking to control - I am not. I am speaking to in-game mechanics about sov'd systems and the need for some limitations on large alliances. My bet is, people would be more willing to enter CONTROLLED territory and try to claim space if more systems were open for claiming via sov mechanics. My other bet is, such intrusions would help keep large alliances in check to some degree through the expenditure of assets such as ships, TCU's and etc. CVA and some of Providence tried to do just that. They tried to claim some sov unclaimed systems in CONTROLLED AAA space. They have since been beaten back and lost some of their own sov claimed systems for their trouble. However I do agree that having those systems with Sov unclaimed probably did ENCOURAGE CVA to try and take it. But it didn't help them HOLD the sov. If the point you're arguing is only that less sov claimed systems will encourage more pilots/corps/alliance try and claim systems I will most likely agree. But claiming sov and holding sov are very different! What is the point of claiming sov without the ability and will to hold it? That is the counterpoint I, and a lot of ppl, are trying to make ourselves. That being said, Domination DID make it easier for anyone to TRY and claim a new system. There is no more pos spamming/attacking/defending. And if you're organized you can flip a sov claimed system (depending on the defenders) to your own much quicker and easier then previous. Claiming an actual sov unclaimed system is even easier (just setup a TCU). Another point I'd like to address is the idea that just cause a power block has sov in a systems doesn't mean they will defend it to the dying man. If smaller alliance can get together and actually contest and win a system from the power block, either by wining fights or timing mechanics, the power block will usually reevaluate what that system and the new entity are worth. If you put up ~good fights~ they might let you stay around or join up diplomatically. At the least will give you a better position to bargain or negotiate from. On the other hand you might just the same get steamrolled out.
Bozse Caldari Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:58:00 - [172] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Stuffs Artificial limits don't work, what's to say that we wouldn't go back to the old way of beeing an alliance, combined ingame chat with restricted access and then split down to 8-10 separate IGA to claim sov ? All you are suggesting is to make administration and logistics a bit more complex for the big entity, IGA was created to remove that complexity to begin with. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:10:00 - [173] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Stuffs Artificial limits don't work, what's to say that we wouldn't go back to the old way of beeing an alliance, combined ingame chat with restricted access and then split down to 8-10 separate IGA to claim sov ? All you are suggesting is to make administration and logistics a bit more complex for the big entity, IGA was created to remove that complexity to begin with. They dont work, eh? I have not seen evidence of that - just opinions on "what if's" that arent any different than my own point of view and ideas for change. So, yes - make it more comlex and idfficult... break up the sov topography and stop catering to large alliances & find a balance.
OldPueblo Gallente DarkStar 1 SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:25:00 - [174] Originally by: The Ratfink Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. "lol we are still relevant." Is all I got from your post about someone else's post. What are you talking about, we've not been relevant since we won 0.0 last year then walked away from it. What does relevant even mean? Are you relevant? This might help me figure it out.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:34:00 - [175] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Stuffs Artificial limits don't work, what's to say that we wouldn't go back to the old way of beeing an alliance, combined ingame chat with restricted access and then split down to 8-10 separate IGA to claim sov ? All you are suggesting is to make administration and logistics a bit more complex for the big entity, IGA was created to remove that complexity to begin with. They dont work, eh? I have not seen evidence of that - just opinions on "what if's" that arent any different than my own point of view and ideas for change. So, yes - make it more comlex and idfficult... break up the sov topography and stop catering to large alliances & find a balance. Speaking as someone who has run both large and small alliances, both as IGA and pre-IGA, gotta disagree with the above sentiment. Balance is the correct term to use, but it comes down to mechanics. You can't (and I mean can't as a matter of opinion) do it at the expense of one group to satisfy another group. IGAs provide a bare minimum of supporting tools for all of us, something we all hope to see change as Dominion progresses. With what we have available to us right now, aside from removing alliance mechanics altogether, you couldn't make it much more complex than it already is. Sov mechanics on the other hand, took a step in the right direction with Dominion, but didn't go far enough. What you seem to advocate is a sovereignty cost based directly upon number of systems held, and the cost should increase either exponentially, or on a scale. I think what is needed is a sovereignty cost based upon systems held, but tempered by activity using the existing indexes. Few systems = low cost Lots of systems, coupled with low index activity = butthurt alliance wallet Lots of systems, high index activity = sustainable cost We can't punish alliances for having lots of space, especially if they need it. On the same hand, I have no problem seeing alliance wallets suffer for those who have held onto far more than they can use. Dominion needs a Vassal Alliance mechanic tbh. Would make some sense to use an expansion of existing contract mechanics. Owner of the space sets the terms (area, cost, right to build stations, erect POS, upgrade systems, length of contract), can put it on 'open market' or to those set blue. Owner and Vassal can haggle over the details and adjust the contract agreement until both sign off on it. Owner retains original rights to the space in question, while the contract is in effect however, sov mechanics show the space in question under the Vassals ownership. If the contract is defaulted for failure to meet terms of agreement or the owner declines to renew the contract at end of term, the space reverts to the owner.
Sandwich PvP Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:38:00 - [176] Edited by: Sandwich PvP on 24/02/2010 00:46:02 IT's a sandbox. All of the arguments come down to this. Either you build a bigger, nastier Alliance to take what you want, or you learn the value of diplomacy and show the alliance that cutting a deal with you could be more of an advantage than a liability. Placing artificial limits on the size of Alliance or the number of systems they can control would be an attack on the very basis of the game. Like it or hate it, this is EVE. Edit: Now the dismantling of stations would fit within the the sandbox theme, and I don't know why it's not already in the game. The only fight worth fighting is the one you should lose.
Ephemeron Caldari Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:07:00 - [177] As I see it, there are plenty of alliances offering space for cheaper. Why rage here? let the market forces sort things out. If IT's price is too high, they lose most of potential customers to NC, for example, which in turn makes their enemies stronger and richer.
Brutus Septimius Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:09:00 - [178] Originally by: Sandwich PvP Now the dismantling of stations would fit within the the sandbox theme, and I don't know why it's not already in the game. Yeah, why isn't it? Oooh, wai... I know... because of the fact that outposts are filled with tens/hundreds of thousands of items belonging to hundreds/thousands of people, and it would be a great surprise to find out someone moved alliance X's blocked cache of dreads across the map, or worse yet, said cache of dreads is sitting pretty in the repackaged egg, in someone's hangar at some other station. vOv sandbox!
Twigand Berries Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:29:00 - [179] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup Oh thank you. I only read the goon posts anyway, and this makes it so much easier.
Xunasy Amarr GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:35:00 - [180] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious I thought posting alot was a sign that we were scared, not bitter. Originally by: Daedhead never stop posting Originally by: Pubsey i'm bitter as hell Originally by: Twigand Berries hey I'm still in Delve. how much do I owe you guys? Originally by: Pubsey 4.20 trillion iskies Originally by: Daedhead enough to buy every IT member a personal mommyship Originally by: Daedhead what Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. Originally by: Xunasy You mean all armies ever right? Originally by: OldPueblo Define irony. Originally by: Daedhead Much like being overweight amirite? sup u mad?
Noluck Ned Gallente Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.24 03:12:00 - [181] Its been a long time since we had a thread like this around here... Be right back, I need more popcorn.
SeIdarine Minmatar Mass Evacuation Taboo.	Posted - 2010.02.24 04:23:00 - [182] oh lawd Dear IT you are terrible @ caod, yes even worse then ~maru kage~ Molle, please place a caod ban all the trash your alliance recruited from motsu.
Danton Marcellus Gallente Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2010.02.24 04:54:00 - [183] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza lol now this sounds like the BoB of old I miss the days when they were off the forums. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Betty Boom Caldari SPECTRE Syndicate	Posted - 2010.02.24 06:08:00 - [184] I like it. Hopefully this discussion goes on. popcorn
Velvet69 Caldari eXceed Inc. Tread Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 06:47:00 - [185] Word on the Street is IT are now NRDS. We went roaming in Delve the other night and noone would engage us. Next day, we hear we've been set -10. Maybe next time we'll get some fights. -velve- Proud Member of 'The House of Prawn' If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.24 08:16:00 - [186] Edited by: Imperator Ceasar on 24/02/2010 08:17:43 Originally by: Avernus Speaking as someone who has run both large and small alliances, both as IGA and pre-IGA, gotta disagree with the above sentiment. Balance is the correct term to use, but it comes down to mechanics. You can't (and I mean can't as a matter of opinion) do it at the expense of one group to satisfy another group. IGAs provide a bare minimum of supporting tools for all of us, something we all hope to see change as Dominion progresses. With what we have available to us right now, aside from removing alliance mechanics altogether, you couldn't make it much more complex than it already is. Sov mechanics on the other hand, took a step in the right direction with Dominion, but didn't go far enough. What you seem to advocate is a sovereignty cost based directly upon number of systems held, and the cost should increase either exponentially, or on a scale. I think what is needed is a sovereignty cost based upon systems held, but tempered by activity using the existing indexes. Few systems = low cost Lots of systems, coupled with low index activity = butthurt alliance wallet Lots of systems, high index activity = sustainable cost We can't punish alliances for having lots of space, especially if they need it. On the same hand, I have no problem seeing alliance wallets suffer for those who have held onto far more than they can use. Dominion needs a Vassal Alliance mechanic tbh. Would make some sense to use an expansion of existing contract mechanics. Owner of the space sets the terms (area, cost, right to build stations, erect POS, upgrade systems, length of contract), can put it on 'open market' or to those set blue. Owner and Vassal can haggle over the details and adjust the contract agreement until both sign off on it. Owner retains original rights to the space in question, while the contract is in effect however, sov mechanics show the space in question under the Vassals ownership. If the contract is defaulted for failure to meet terms of agreement or the owner declines to renew the contract at end of term, the space reverts to the owner. Very thought provoking indeed - many thanks for putting some great thoughts together... I think your ideas balanced with some of mine & what has been proposed in the thread starter link & we could have a real winning combo of concepts to work with. tips hat Intelligence like this is very refreshing.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.24 08:21:00 - [187] Originally by: Sandwich PvP Edited by: Sandwich PvP on 24/02/2010 00:46:02 IT's a sandbox. All of the arguments come down to this. Either you build a bigger, nastier Alliance to take what you want, or you learn the value of diplomacy and show the alliance that cutting a deal with you could be more of an advantage than a liability. Placing artificial limits on the size of Alliance or the number of systems they can control would be an attack on the very basis of the game. Like it or hate it, this is EVE. Edit: Now the dismantling of stations would fit within the the sandbox theme, and I don't know why it's not already in the game. Spoken like a true benefactor of the current system - way to go in not disguising your own selfish interests & remaining closed minded to other ideas.
Le Cardinal Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 08:37:00 - [188] Edited by: Le Cardinal on 24/02/2010 08:37:42 Find it funny that each time someone disagrees with you Imperator they are either biased or smacking you. Looking at the OP maybe your right. Maybe it was a screw off message? As for holding much space. Dominion was partly about giving smaller entitiess a chance to live in 0.0. And as far as me concerned it has had that effect, but probably not for single corporations like yours. Large spaceholding alliances have opened their space and let other alliances benefit from their space, either by a) getting sov in systems/stations or b) using stations held by themselves. No large spaceholding alliance have any interest in owning lots of space unless it has some kind of benefit. As pointed out earlier in this thread the cost of jb's etc has skyrocketed, and therefore you are dependent on alliances using you systems and stations. If you had paid any attention to dotlan and not just the fancy sovmap you would see that large spaceholding alliances from north to south dropped a lot of sov systems when dominion hit, simply because it was too expensive to hold them. That doesnt mean that theywill accept that anyone tries to grab it. You have to cut deals to live in 0.0 on all levels. Its just a matter of perspective. large alliances depend on allies too to be able to keep space. Just as small alliances has to depend on an larger alliance to be able to hold space.
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:10:00 - [189] Edited by: Eskalin on 24/02/2010 09:10:49 because eve is a game of altruism, compassion, and trust RIGHT? the hypocrisy of your posts is awesome the tunnel vision you have exhibited here is almost plague black in proportion. of course large alliances are going to work for their own self interest, that is human nature. your own posts have shown the same amount of self interest, ignoring rational arguments and debate out of hand while cramming your opinion down our throats. the agenda you seem bent on foisting off on the community while more verbose than most bawww threads is just that, "ccp i want the game to cater to my whim!waaaaaaaaaa". the game is far from perfect but the new sov system is better than the pos bashing that went before it. if you haven't done a 14 hour stretch of that then lucky you. the court of public opinion isn't going to change our rental policy so use your supposed skill set from rl, inspire comrades, take space. or pay like a peasant for a lord's protection in their domain. we all know you will just continue to cry here. prove me wrong. edit spelling If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:15:00 - [190] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar Spoken like a true beneficiary of the current system - way to go in not disguising your own selfish interests & remaining closed minded to other ideas. fixed that for you. comprehension 4tw If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:39:00 - [191] Originally by: Eskalin Edited by: Eskalin on 24/02/2010 09:10:49 because eve is a game of altruism, compassion, and trust RIGHT? the hypocrisy of your posts is awesome the tunnel vision you have exhibited here is almost plague black in proportion. of course large alliances are going to work for their own self interest, that is human nature. your own posts have shown the same amount of self interest, ignoring rational arguments and debate out of hand while cramming your opinion down our throats. the agenda you seem bent on foisting off on the community while more verbose than most bawww threads is just that, "ccp i want the game to cater to my whim!waaaaaaaaaa". the game is far from perfect but the new sov system is better than the pos bashing that went before it. if you haven't done a 14 hour stretch of that then lucky you. the court of public opinion isn't going to change our rental policy so use your supposed skill set from rl, inspire comrades, take space. or pay like a peasant for a lord's protection in their domain. we all know you will just continue to cry here. prove me wrong. edit spelling No crying here at all - I have suggested changes and predictably large alliances dont like my suggestions. And I have never pretended to be unbiased either. But, I do see the continued inbalances and think CCP should go further in fixing things so large alliances do not get too powerful.
Imperator Ceasar Caldari 104th Ranger Mobile Combat Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.24 10:02:00 - [192] Originally by: Eskalin Edited by: Eskalin on 24/02/2010 09:10:49 because eve is a game of altruism, compassion, and trust RIGHT? the hypocrisy of your posts is awesome the tunnel vision you have exhibited here is almost plague black in proportion. of course large alliances are going to work for their own self interest, that is human nature. your own posts have shown the same amount of self interest, ignoring rational arguments and debate out of hand while cramming your opinion down our throats. the agenda you seem bent on foisting off on the community while more verbose than most bawww threads is just that, "ccp i want the game to cater to my whim!waaaaaaaaaa". the game is far from perfect but the new sov system is better than the pos bashing that went before it. if you haven't done a 14 hour stretch of that then lucky you. the court of public opinion isn't going to change our rental policy so use your supposed skill set from rl, inspire comrades, take space. or pay like a peasant for a lord's protection in their domain. we all know you will just continue to cry here. prove me wrong. edit spelling No crying here at all - I have suggested changes and predictably large alliances dont like my suggestions. And I have never pretended to be unbiased either. But, I do see the continued inbalances and think CCP should go further in fixing things so large alliances do not get so powerful that they control huge swathes of Eve.. Why is it that a simple trading of ideas turns into personal insults and caustic comments so easily? All the Sov comments I've posted are simply ideas, which may be "out of the box" in perspective - but so what? I started this thread because I was stunned by the fees and had no idea if that was the norm or not, so I posted the offer in its' entirety so as to not be called a liar, to solicit input as I was unfamiliar with the real ISK gen potentials under Dominion. This devolution of discussions into cutting comments and etc. is simply unnecessary.
Hyveres Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 10:27:00 - [193] Edited by: Hyveres on 24/02/2010 10:30:12 Edited by: Hyveres on 24/02/2010 10:29:36 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar No crying here at all - I have suggested changes and predictably large alliances does not like my suggestions. And I have never pretended to be unbiased either. But, I do see the continued imbalances and think CCP should go further in fixing things so large alliances do not get so powerful that they *control huge swathes of Eve*../quote] It might be because this is one reason why a lot of us enjoy the game. It leads to big conflicts and drama. Roams and ganks are fun but over time its just another variation of a small scale fight like you can get in almost any other mmo. That being said under dominion large scale fleet fights does not work as well as they used to. Oh and owning space is not a right to get a proper feel for 0.0 I'd actually recommend in starting out from NPC 0.0 like myself and a lot of others have done you might learn some valuable lessons there. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Doddy Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 11:31:00 - [194] Originally by: Imperator Ceasar You are advocating for somethign that services your own current interests, so quite honestly you're lacking the gravitas to make your statements stick, for that reason alone. You just don't get it do you? The size of alliances has nothing to with it. If it was made more expensive for alliances to hold more space, then alliances would just split into several smaller alliances. The same people would still be dominating the same space and smaller groups would just as hard a time of it as they are still facing in effect the same single alliance, the only difference being the sov map has more pretty colours. None of the entities in 0.0 currently has any issues working with people who don't happen to be in the same alliance, why do you think breaking up an alliance would have any effect? Right now each corp in IT could make its own alliance and join it and nothing would change other than having more alliance bills to pay (which wouldn't be an issue if it reduced sov costs). Most of us were effectively doing that in the GBC anyway and it is also basically what the NC is. An independent entity can't simply walk out of empire and expect empty 0.0 systems to be sitting waiting for them. On the other hand a bit of isk or a bit of diplomacy can obviously get you some space quite easily (atlas rental prices can be lower than the office costs of living in empire ffs). If you are a decent corp you probably make the jump from renter to ally quite easily (everyone wants competent freinds) and if you are not a decent corp you don't deserve space of your own anyway.
Estios Minmatar Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:01:00 - [195] Originally by: OldPueblo Originally by: The Ratfink Originally by: OldPueblo "Lol Dianabolic." That's all I got. What are you talking about, we've not been relevant since we won 0.0 last year then walked away from it. What does relevant even mean? Are you relevant? This might help me figure it out. Oh man this is a good post, confirming quickest failcascade in EVE history and losing billions in assets, all sov and half your member base is 'walking away from it' Never stop posting So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Nestor Ne'Arthe Amarr Unholy Asylum	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:11:00 - [196] Edited by: Nestor Ne''Arthe on 24/02/2010 13:16:23 Originally by: Imperator Ceasar No crying here at all - I have suggested changes and predictably large alliances dont like my suggestions. And I have never pretended to be unbiased either. But, I do see the continued inbalances and think CCP should go further in fixing things so large alliances do not get so powerful that they control huge swathes of Eve.. I'm on the same cart as you, as in - need space to do stuff around. However, you do not get any basic concepts of space rental, powers, politics, or anything. As I have mentioned previously, back in 2004-2005, we didn't have Player Alliances, there was no SOV, there were no POS'es, outposts, system upgrades. All we had was a bunch of people, in different corporations, creating a coalition for a common goal. All that was to 'claiming space' was: a) holding key gates to the region b) shooting everything that was not blue (hence NBSI) Because those two concepts are pretty core to the whole EvE gameplay, there is no mechanic that could change it, without breaking it completely. See the previous comment about preventing more than one ship shooting another ship. In general, if you give power to the people, they use it. If they proclaim that some area of space is theirs, all you can do is to: a) agree, and leave it at that b) disagree, and go there, shoot them c) disagree, and ask them to lend you the space for a fee Now, every commodity, and space is also a commodity, commits to market rules. This means that: a) it's worth as much as people are paying for it b) the seller can ask any price c) there is more than one seller d) price varies on quality So, in essence: a) you cannot stop people from claiming space, because that it is what the game is about b) there is no way for CCP to 'fix' this c) public outrage about prices or customs will only give you a forum ragestorm on your head d) comply or fight, and that is also what the game is about Some people were first in some places, some people know other people, some people are better organized than you, some people are generally better (at the game, or even in RL) than you. So unless you can best them, you have to live with it. Edit: Formatting. --
Daedhead Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 13:38:00 - [197] Originally by: Estios Oh man this is a good post, confirming quickest failcascade in EVE history and losing billions in assets, all sov and half your member base is 'walking away from it' Never stop posting lol
Homo Erectus Amarr Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 14:13:00 - [198] Originally by: Estios Oh man this is a good post, confirming quickest failcascade in EVE history and losing billions in assets, all sov and half your member base is 'walking away from it' Never stop posting they didnt want to be good at eve anyway
Van PokerAlho Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.24 14:59:00 - [199] Edited by: Van PokerAlho on 24/02/2010 15:01:10 10b per month seems a lot for a noob player like me. A system with 8-10 belts cant support more than one ratter, you can say whatever but it don't without the isks income being slightly more than a half, maybe two other can make anomalies, this is not very high profit. Someone said that 4 persons carebearing 1h per day in 28 days can pay the bills. So a person who plays 2 hours per day, half of their profit is to pay others, cant see the point of moving to 0.0 for that pathetic profits, stay in highsec running lvl 4s, farm isks and LP points and you make much more isks and dont have neutrals coming and fffffff your ratting. People like stability, paying 10b per month would create so much pressure on a corp that it would eventually fail. Maybe a big and very organized corp can make it easily without major concerns, but then they have much more members and need more systems so they would need to pay more 10b here and there, still I see no point if they cant harvest moons as they could help paying the 10b. This deal is garbage imho, there are plenty of 0.0 renters with better deals where you can play without pressure and earn a little more isks than in highsec (dispute, some will say otherwise), so I can't see why would anyone move to dangerous 0.0 to have the same profits that they can have in highsec, just to have a lot of pressure on their back with gigantic bills.

CCP Shadow Caldari C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 15:00:00 - [200] The spam has been canned. Well, within reason.

Kaitou Shiroi Gallente Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2010.02.24 15:05:00 - [201] Originally by: CCP Shadow The spam has been canned. Well, within reason. REASON?! THIS. IS. CAOD! --- Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
Akov Stohs Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 17:22:00 - [202] Originally by: Van PokerAlho Edited by: Van PokerAlho on 24/02/2010 15:01:10 A system with 8-10 belts cant support more than one ratter What about 10 additional hidden belts? What about 10+ anomalies spawning as fast are you can do them? The other thing to take note of, is that the deal is for exclusive, single entity only access to a system. If you are a smaller corp, and can share. I'm sure you can make a much different deal. If you're interested, contact dian, tell him you're a nub in a small corp that wants to share a system and would like to get your feet wet. See what he says.
William DeMeo Gallente Genos Occidere Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.02.24 17:30:00 - [203] Edited by: William DeMeo on 24/02/2010 17:30:39 Originally by: Keflin Geard Renters fail - and alliances that allow renters fail. If you want space - go get it, or die trying. SYS-K
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.02.24 17:34:00 - [204] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/02/2010 17:35:13 Originally by: Yaay Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: Yaay Obviously, you have no Idea how 0.0 mechanics work. However, that said, I'll undercut their price by 5 billion on the deposit, and 2 billion a month with all other stipulations remaining the same. We will even give you a station system with a refinery if you so desire. Our shuttle prices in station will also be under 500k each, sorry Dian, Capitalism and all. Yeah... That offer is so bad they should stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Renter buying upgrades is OK. Renter transporting upgrade is braindead. Who has the titans to JB them out? Surely that must be the renters. And moon mining... If you're not mining the moon, why would you care what the renters do? Let them mine/refine those you do not claim. Any contract must _explicitly_ give the renters free reign to pursue escalations, else find someone else to rent from. 10 billion for _one_ system? A single system will support some 20-30 people max spread over all timezones... asking more than 100M per pilot is not going to be very marketable prices... They are your customers, not carebears to be fleeced. You're thinking in terms of 1 day. 30 pilots x 24hrs x 20 mil per hr (low ball) = 14.4 bil a day... half of that is 7.2 bil a day. Never have pity on renters, give them an opportunity to exploit you and they will. Renters always play the pity card, they get a ** load out of a system, especially with the upgrades now. At a low 12 hr estimate, and by most renter standards, 12 hrs income x 30 pilots daily x 20 mil/hr is very low, they can cover it in 1.5 days, leaving 28.5 days of freedom per month. Atlas has no enemies, and no ability to retain half the space they hold. It makes sense to rent it cheap b/c there is so much. They just have 3/4 of eve blued or naped and renters too dumb or scared to figure out how much cheaper owning space is. IT conversely have an EPEEN rep to uphold, which means losing 1 station would cost them 300 members in an instant, and more mockery here. IT also know that even if it is renter owned space, if it's lost, they take the fall on these forums. Atlas is better at scapegoating, b/c well, they don't give a anyways. Personalities play a role in price. IT consider themselves top dollar even if the rest of eve does not. Atlas has ** loads of space and not a care in the world. We have less space, but we won't give it up cheaply to be abused, we'd rather squat on it ourselves. Such is the personalities of EVE. Now how about that deal? WOW, Yaay has made a good post ... what has the world come to - by good post i mean the first half. :( --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.24 18:00:00 - [205] In the end, mechanics and in-game tools can ease the difficulty of setting things up, but two things get results in 0.0: -Diplomacy -Guns Best used in combination. As mentioned above, people like friends who show competance, the more a small alliance or corporation can demonstrate that to their benefit, the greater likelyhood that other entities will be willing to cut a deal with them. That said, sometimes money is the bottom line, especially when an entity decides they have enough blues and friends, and need to find ways to cover costs. Rental of space is one of the primary ways for major alliances to cover their sovereignty costs these days. No Alliance wants to be in the red, or just breaking even. Big alliances have exceptionally large expenditures when they go on campaign, for that you need a warchest.
Sikhtar Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 19:30:00 - [206] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 23/02/2010 03:29:24 Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 23/02/2010 03:28:52 Originally by: Svett A few people in bounty alone can get 4b+ a day from anoms. i read from a very reliable source that 2 guys can get 65,500b+ a month from one system with anomalies At least 10000000B
Shamad Conde Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.24 22:22:00 - [207] I think IRS takes too much money out of my checks. Maybe I should load a plane with fuel and crash it into their building so they change their pricing.
Emilia Bluu Gallente Baptism oF Fire	Posted - 2010.02.24 23:11:00 - [208] That sleeping thing really cuts into my ratting thing.. I should consider cutting that out.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.02.24 23:22:00 - [209] Originally by: Shamad Conde I think IRS takes too much money out of my checks. Maybe I should load a plane with fuel and crash it into their building so they change their pricing. If that was in response to my post, I was advocating activity showing your usefulness... not shooting the owner of the space you are wanting a deal from. Though... that can work as well on occasion depending on what you want.
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.24 23:53:00 - [210] Originally by: Shamad Conde I think IRS takes too much money out of my checks. Maybe I should load a plane with fuel and crash it into their building so they change their pricing. Too soon! This is one joke too far. There are no clowns.
boliano Caldari Archangels Assault Force Sinful Transgression	Posted - 2010.02.25 00:26:00 - [211] Ok lets recap. The op wants to rent from IT but doesn't like the rates. Next he feels the need to go to caod to express his disapproval. now lets be honest chances are your looking to rent because you prob don't have the might to take the space ( no insult intended) but i'm prob spot on. So since IT has sov in that area u can either pay what they want or take it from them. Or as said in this thread b4 rent somewhere else. But from personal experience i can assure you you dont wanna go the taking it from them route. I was in an alliance that took 2 systems in delve when goons first were taking sov, andit wasnt pretty when they turned there attention on us.
TanHuynh Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.25 08:16:00 - [212] Originally by: Velvet69 Word on the Street is IT are now NRDS. We went roaming in Delve the other night and noone would engage us. Next day, we hear we've been set -10. Maybe next time we'll get some fights. -velve- Hurry, To Tread ! I have no pod.
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.25 09:32:00 - [213] Originally by: Velvet69 Word on the Street is IT are now NRDS. We went roaming in Delve the other night and noone would engage us. Next day, we hear we've been set -10. Maybe next time we'll get some fights. -velve- http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Delve#npc24 As a public service, I have pasted a link to a map that will allow you to discover where IT are keeping the bulk of their forces at any given time. If you find this useful, please send isk so I can continue to paste this link on CAOD.
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.25 09:37:00 - [214] Originally by: Homo Erectus Originally by: Estios Oh man this is a good post, confirming quickest failcascade in EVE history and losing billions in assets, all sov and half your member base is 'walking away from it' Never stop posting they didnt want to be good at eve anyway I don't think you get goonharularluaralguaulhhluhalugaulh.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.02.25 10:35:00 - [215] Originally by: boliano Ok lets recap. The op wants to rent from IT but doesn't like the rates. Next he feels the need to go to caod to express his disapproval. The OP actually started with a very reasonable question regarding the rates. He then received the answer that yes, they really are exorbitant and he would be better off renting from someone else.
SavageBastard Caldari Igneus Auctorita SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.02.25 10:46:00 - [216] Originally by: Dianabolic Month1 = 15bn Month2 = 10bn Month3 = 10bn (and so on) Watching you come running to whine like a stuffed pig about our costs? Priceless. Hey look a 2006 poster with a 2001 meme.
Ace Frehley Minmatar Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.25 10:50:00 - [217] Now i have looked from both sides and this are my conclusions 10 bil, it is kinda much for 1 system per month. If the fee is so high, then I must demand that "my system" has zero hostiles 23/7 so I can use it grind back my isk, and we know that isent possible. Buy and transport uppgrades and then let someone else install em, dont like it. You get a feeling you will get kicked as soon as you hit level 5 . I think pay a lower fee and the renters can do whatever they want in the system and you have no obligarotry towards them until someone invades the system and trys to take the system. So I think Dian was smart and basiclly told this whiner to "sort off". Good choice Dian

CCP Adida Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:35:00 - [218] Locked as the OP removed their post from discussion. Adida Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us


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