First

*grabs some popcorn

I don't really have problems with anyone who manipulates the market in creative ways but as long as there is high sec there will be carebears and they are part of the community as well wether you like it or not. I'm not someone who calls for CCP's intervention but i really dont see how you would want to solve this problem any other way.

Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.

EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.

Right, and they should have to play the game within the same parameters we all do. They want to mine, they need to form a mining corp to do it for protection. High Sec is not meant to be safe, I don't know how many times you pubbies need to have that rammed into your dense skulls. If what you are trying is repeatedly failing, then stop trying, and think of something else. Plenty of people mine unharassed because they make use of the resources given to them by CCP to do it safely.

Make a mining corp in low or null sec. There, you can preemptively strike without getting concorded. You can set up intel to warn you of threats and a station to dock up in.

Seriously, this is a sandbox. Yes, you can play however you like, but that doesn't mean we have to let you. If we want to **** on your sandcastle, we're free to do that too. It's up to you to protect yourself here. You have the tools to stop us, though. Do what I said, let go of your ****** veldspar and just go to low or null sec. You'll be a lot safer, and you'll make a lot more money.

CCP has stated clearly that they intervene when someone is not able to play the game at all (they also intervene in the plex market when its being speculative). Plus, its not like the OP has an alternative to Highsec, Highsec IS the alternative to low and nullsec and is the last, lowpaid resort anyone has.

If you pay attention, and youGÇÖve got your wits about you, you can avoid people coming in and ganking, a survival of the fittest kind of thing, and people are now able to actually make a much better living from mining because of things like Hulkageddon and Burn Jita, because minerals are more expensive.

Three months ago I purchased 3 months of playing time for my three 6 year old accounts . At that time you allowed Goonswarm to circumvent high sec game mechanics with hulkmania. Hulkmania used to last a week and was not a problem. They made it a month and then permanent. That is a big problem. I tried everything I could to fight these pirates. Its hard to fight and mine at the same time. I thought after hulkmania this would stop but Goonswarm continues to have bounties on mining ships. Its been three months and pirates are still attacking my ships in high sec space with imunity. Almost all these pirates have at least a -5 security standing. How can you justify allowing players with -5 security standing into high sec? I have over 250 billion ISK so ISK is not the problem. Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do. I created several petitions explaining my problem but you did nothing! From your responses to my petitions I know my 3 accounts mean nothing to you. You thought hulkmania would only last a short time and players would not quit. You are wrong!! How many other players are having the same problem? How many have already quit or will quit in the near future? In a few days my playing time will expire. I hope EVE dies and you lose your jobs!!!

I dont give a fu.. how you players respond to this thread. In a few days all of you and EVE wont matter. In a few years EVE wont matter to the gaming community. It will be just another mmo that died a slow death.

My vocabulary is not extended enough to understand the word pubbies but i agree somewhat with most of what you wrote. My point is, or actually something that's worth discussing is: Should it be possible to mine safely in Highsec, just as it is safe to run Missions ? Or in other words, did CCP intend to make a place where it's perfectly safe to mine ? If not, then you're in most parts right.

As a sidenote, i'm not a miner, and actually would recommend to remove Concord altogether, just to be clear on this, if you're talking about a REAL sandbox then remove any NPC restrictions. I just like to see the other side of the argument as well thats all, and i'm ready to be convinced by the opposite if i'm wrong. The style of arguments that most people in here use though shows clearly that they rather bang the wardrums and show their e-peen instead of having an interesting discussion.

Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.

Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.

I dont give a fu.. how you players respond to this thread. In a few days all of you and EVE wont matter. In a few years EVE wont matter to the gaming community. It will be just another mmo that died a slow death.

Right, and they should have to play the game within the same parameters we all do. They want to mine, they need to form a mining corp to do it for protection.

Make a mining corp in low or null sec. There, you can preemptively strike without getting concorded. You can set up intel to warn you of threats and a station to dock up in.

There is NO reason you can't do the same. None at all.

I have to agree with the op.

He choose to be a miner, that's what eve is to him. If he has a quarter trillion isk he could do pretty much anything. The fact that People are destroying what eve means to him and others is something that ccp should take note of.

Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.

Might sound suprising, but not everybody are mindless zerglings nor are nerd enough to play in big enough corps to provide protection.

Mining in low sec is completely stupid. It's same stuff of hi sec minus hi sec easy logistics (and concord).
Mining in 0.0 requires to join either some crappy old style alliance where they treat you like a piece of inferior meat or to join some external 3rd party community whose attitude is despised by many.

In order to do the same it's required to displace you from your place (soon you'll own all 0.0 so it'll be the only way). I don't see it being done for the foreseeable future.
[/quote[

You said it yourself, nearly everyone hates us. An alliance of those people would absolutely dwarf ours. VFK-IV. Deklein. Come get us.

[quote]
Or a guy could consider joining you but then you are elitist enough to only allow SA members in. Who wants to torture themselves with that.

I wasn't really aiming most of that at you specifically, sorry.

A police force like Concord does actually make sense. I'm not so thrilled with them being invincible, but I spend literally no time in high sec, so I don't really care either way.

As far as my argument, it simply boils down to "There is no "should" in Eve". Doesn't matter if highsec should be safe, it isn't. It isn't because a group of corps, using in game resources, have banded together with the intent of making it unsafe, and they are fully within their rights to do so. It is now on the people who take offense to this to muster their own forces and come make us stop.

I'll advertise it again, VFK-IV. Deklein. That's where we are. Most of the game hates us, so anyone should be able to form a massive alliance to come and take us out. Don't blame the WarDec mechanics, in null, you don't need to wardec anyone, just fly out here and start shooting. Your force should be far bigger than ours. It would be dead simple to drive us out of eve forever.

So come do it. Stop whining and take your game back.

I took a break for 2 years and was also approached by Goon in a recruitment thread. While i wasnt really on top of things i wasnt aware at that point of the polarized hatred towards Goon in general and Miners (regardless now of highsec ganking). I could have easily joined because the recruiter was quite the nice guy.

Thats why i always become suspicious when people start to label a group of people of being this and that. Ok pirates DO gank lowsec gates, thats why they are pirates, they steal their stuff. Their role is a mere description of what they do, however the (justified or unjustified) hatred towards the Goons is exactly the same thing that the miners are now experiencing. It is therefore a bit ironic to hear from goons (i dont mean you in particular) that they cry for acceptance in their hatespeech against miners but also refuse any criticism towards their attitude when faced with hatespeech that targets them.

I hope you get my point, i really didnt take any side yet on the argument, i'm just saying, hatred is so easily spread in this game, its a very accurate Mirror of our real World in that sense.

You didn't read the OP I guess. He is complaining about being ganked and not about being unable to mine.

AMD how can.he mine while being ganked.

Tough ****. That's Eve. Playing solo is inherently more dangerous than playing in a group. Don't want to mine in a way that is going to be much safer? Fine, but don't whine when you get ganked. We are not obligated to allow everyone to play however they want. Don't like it, come get us.

So make your own 0.0 alliance and mine there. The ore in null IS far more valuable. This isn't some theory, lots of corps already do this. You just don't hear from them because they are in game mining and not bitching to CCP on the forums because they want to be invulnerable.

You said it yourself, nearly everyone hates us. An alliance of those people would absolutely dwarf ours. VFK-IV. Deklein. Come get us.

A few friends and I decided to convert a bit of security standing into fun by trying out this apparently hilarious new trend among the young people of today: Suicide ganking.

So we loaded up some cheap T1-fitted catalysts and had a go at a mack sitting in belt with some friends and an orca.
As it turns out, as soon as we locked, the orca started shield repping and our catalysts died to concord, scoring zero kills.
When we warped our pods out, one of the miners wrote in local, "Lol, noob suiciders" - Or something to that effect.
That stung, badly.

So I guess it's not entirely impossible to defend a mining fleet, although two or three catalysts more might have tipped the scales. But still.
Rather humiliating experience, I must say.

That was axactly the sort of ragequite they want to read well done OP you just inflated the goons already oversized ego

Next time. Mine smart mine sexy,
plenty of other places than a hiigh sec asteroid belt near a busy hub

Please do not call ganking miners PvP, its called ganking miners

Please do not call ganking miners PvP, its called ganking miners

T Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.

You see, in a sandbox, we do have that right. We are stronger. Yeah, he can play however he wants, but that does not mean we are obligated to let him if we don't want to. If he wants to stop us, he shouldn't whine to ccp, he should try playing the game for once and doing something about it.

Make a mining corp. Mine with others. Get security and intel. PLAY THE GAME.

then why do you solely target miners, you can make more running lvl 4s or doing incursions. You are saying play the game but you target the minority in high sec.

Why dont you reign hell on all the "SafeHighSecPubbies" miners mission Runners, incursions etc. But you didnt you chose the soft option because they dont play the way you want and pat yourself on the back.

It's like watching a mentally ill child pulling legs off a fly.

My vocabulary is not extended enough to understand the word pubbies but i agree somewhat with most of what you wrote. My point is, or actually something that's worth discussing is: Should it be possible to mine safely in Highsec, just as it is safe to run Missions ? Or in other words, did CCP intend to make a place where it's perfectly safe to mine ? If not, then you're in most parts right.

Most of their subscriptions come from hi-sec and they will loose these slowly due to player dissatisfaction. I'm not saying I give a crap about hi-sec but a lot of people do. A lot more people care about Hi-sec than will ever give a crap about Null, maybe CCP should get management who know how to manage.

Not defending the OP at all, nor the donkeys who cry on the forums but you assume too much about everybody's ability to forfeit their RL responsibilities for a game:




Tough ****. That's Real Life. As MMO players gets older so their obligations increase and their time decreases.

See, once upon a time there was a 500K subs game. It was bugged, servers crashed a lot, content was half made and graphics were absolutely behind the times.

Then one day somebody suddenly realized what I typed above and made the game enjoyable even by those who cannot waste half day in CTAs, farming and so on.
These days that game peaked at 14M subs. A business model that EvE should embrace (without the carebear part).
Else EvE will be the forever "could have been the massive universe but never made to more than 50k stable concurrent players" second class game.

Eve is built for 3M players, just look at how choppy and illiquid the markets are. Because too few are playing.




Not going to happen. People happen to have a life. "Making" a 0.0 alliance is easy, keeping it running is not. It's horrendously time consuming.




You wrongly assume people care enough to bother. You need a motivated core of dedicated players with a lot of game knowledge to setup an alliance that would EVER have any hope to run against a Technetium fuelled endless empire.

There's neither motivated people any more nor leadership or charisma people able to aggregate many players under a common objective.

You indeed won EvE because of your efforts but also because all the others who cared quit and nobody are left to try.

CCP is not really losing players, these lot that come to whine at forums give false impression what is really going on in game. See server population statistics, if you want to.

And it's not really about "not caring about hi-sec". It's about emergent gameplay. EVE is a sandbox and you can't really play this game without being in contact, and in some cases fully dependent, on other players. This is what makes the game fascinating. Surely everyone who start playing EVE should know this, and if they don't... well, that's their fault. EVE is not advertised as a hard game without a reason. Sometimes I don't even get it how people can live in their false imagination that hi-sec is actually 100% safe. It is not the truth. If hi-sec were meant to be 100% safe (and it really is not), CONCORD would strike the attackers immediately. When you undock the station in your Hulk, or whatever ship you fly, you should be prepared to lose it. When you plan your business, you should count the possible loss of your ship in. But, as we have seen, most miners are absolutely too greedy to do this. They want the best possible yield from their ship, so they can make the best possible money. So, when they lose their untanked ship, the most greediest come here, in the forums, to cry about it. They want it to be changed, so they could mine eternally in completely safety and make vast amounts of money.

EVE is one of the last games that is not spoiled by complaining carebears. CCP is doing great work for not spoiling it.

Make a mining corp in low or null sec. There, you can preemptively strike without getting concorded. You can set up intel to warn you of threats and a station to dock up in.

Have you ever considered a lot of the playerbase don't give a crap about emergent game play and just want to have a game they can enjoy?
When I joined the game I never saw a word about EvE as a hard game, only that Null sec was dangerous lawless space.

Most players do enjoy the game and appreciate the complex virtual universe full of emergent gameplay, and also like the fact that EVE is satisfyingly hard.

Otherwise they probably wouldn't be playing the game

I tried everything I could to fight these pirates.

Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.

Another example of a player that gets his enjoyment from the game from doing the things gankers lable as boring. He just wants to mine in the "safety" of high in peace. Cowardly risk-free gankers claim yet another awesome addition to their boring killboard.

Does CCP have a view on what the expect high-sec to represent? I personally feel that EvE is not a only PVP game, its far more awesomely complex. Players that have no interest in PVP should be able to do whatever it is that they do to have fun. Isn't that why high-sec exists? PVPers have the majority of the galaxy to shoot eachother, but yet they flock to high for those tasty defenceless kills, the tasty risk-free isk, and the tasty carebear tears.

Remove high, or add shiny concord insta-death rays.

Another example of a player that gets his enjoyment from the game from doing the things gankers lable as boring. He just wants to mine in the "safety" of high in peace. Cowardly risk-free gankers claim yet another awesome addition to their boring killboard.

Does CCP have a view on what the expect high-sec to represent? I personally feel that EvE is not a only PVP game, its far more awesomely complex. Players that have no interest in PVP should be able to do whatever it is that they do to have fun. Isn't that why high-sec exists? PVPers have the majority of the galaxy to shoot eachother, but yet they flock to high for those tasty defenceless kills, the tasty risk-free isk, and the tasty carebear tears.

Remove high, or add shiny concord insta-death rays.

Players that have no interest in PVP should be able to do whatever it is that they do to have fun.

On a more serious note, I would question the mental stability of someone who hopes the general Eve population lose their jobs because they lost a few ships on a internet game.

Players that have no interest in markets should be able to get all the stuff for free.

Players that have no interest in PVE should get +10 standings to all factions.

Players that have no interest in invention should get T2 BPOs.

People that have no interest in flying small ships should be able to fly supercaps everywhere.

People that have no interest in clones should have indestructible pods.

Is this your idea of sandbox, really? That it should be tailored according to what some people don't have interest in?

To others it means that you have options to counter things, adapt and develop your methods. Very much like RL.Realism means that you may have to do stuff that you don't like to get what you want.

And the next thing to try to tell him is that you have to pvp in a sandbox.

Your attempt to ridicule his argument failed in 5 of 5 comparisons really really hard. And the next thing to try to tell him is that you have to pvp in a sandbox. Hate to break it to you boy. If someone wants to gather herbs the whole day in a sandbox thats his choice.

Yeah the server population is so great now, it has failed to grow and is lower now than 6 months ago. Yes I know summer ect..but as it has trailed down from the start of hulkagedon and doesn't seem to be going up, I would say this indicates something.

When I joined the game I never saw a word about EvE as a hard game, only that Null sec was dangerous lawless space.

Players that have no interest in markets should be able to get all the stuff for free.

Players that have no interest in PVE should get +10 standings to all factions.

Players that have no interest in invention should get T2 BPOs.

People that have no interest in flying small ships should be able to fly supercaps everywhere.

People that have no interest in clones should have indestructible pods.

Is this your idea of sandbox, really? That it should be tailored according to what some people don't have interest in?

To others it means that you have options to counter things, adapt and develop your methods. Very much like RL.Realism means that you may have to do stuff that you don't like to get what you want.

Yes, because it was not an attempt to ridicule anything, it was a list of things that some people might not enjoy, and by his logic should then be not forced to do.

Of course he is free to gather herbs all day long if he wants. Just like the Catalyst pilot is free to suicide his ship on the herbivore if he wants. Is this something you disagree with?

Not everybody is too stupid to adapt, good players have adapted to Hulkageddons before and will continue to do so, and can appreciate a game universe that promotes emergent gameplay.

I think hiseccers are blowing the ganking problem greatly out of proportion, it affects a minority, and even fewer of that minority are whiners who make deathwishes to EVE.

I still do think it's strange that CCP think it's okay, that T2 mining barges are easy prey in hi-sec.

Argument by analogy is the lowest form of logical reasoning.

For example:

Just because a player jumps off a cliff, doesn't mean that all players should jump off a cliff.

AK

The popular Hulkageddon survival strategies are docking up or mining in battleships, which work for a limited period of time, but can not truly be considered a permanent solution. It's possible to find a not to populated system an constantly keep an eye on local/overview/scan/etc, and leave the belt when you think something suspect is going on. In the end it's just not worth it, less trouble and less stress to run level 4 missions in a domi.

I think you are right, i was out mining with a friend most of the weekend, and nothing happened. I still do think it's strange that CCP think it's okay, that T2 mining barges are easy prey in hi-sec.

If you view the statistics, you may also notice a rather quiet time on October and November 2011. These months were not the Hulkageddon months, and the population was even lower then than it is now. Summertime is often the quiet time, with many games. What attracts new players (and older players who are having a break) is new content that interests them. To be honest, for some part of the playerbase, Factional Warfare doesn't have much to offer.

When I ventured to EVE homepage for the first time, I saw this:
http://almaroc.com/wp-content/uploads/eve-is-hard.png

This was last December.
Doesn't that kind of advertise EVE as a social interaction game, too?

Often people who subscribe to play a PvP oriented game expect some PvP out of it. Making the environment of the game too safe for PvE oriented people kind of takes away from those who want to PvP and enjoy EVE as a sandbox. Because that is what EVE is known of, a place where all your actions have consequences and everything is connected together, a place with great combat and awesome battles. There are plenty of other games which provide safe PvE (or safe PvP) environment for their players: why should EVE be like them? One by one these easier games have fallen, yet EVE is still very much alive...

I don't by any means say that people can't play the way they want. They just have to be aware that there are other people, with other playstyles around. Some of the playertypes just want to destroy your ship instead of being all happy friends with you.

Players like OP who want to turn EVE into singleplayer mode full of restrcitions have to go and stay away forever.

I hope EVE dies and you lose your jobs!!!

Carebear Excuse #2 "I have a real life and others don't" spotted.

Move to wormhole space, it's an environment where much smaller entities can thrive and even have access to ABC ore, and where mining operations can be protected by a very small force and effort.

EVE is not just the black & white of hisec vs sov null, but also endless shades of grey in between.

It might be hard to drill in thick skulls but nowhere EvE gets a statement about "minimum of 2 hours a day required to play or GTFO".

Living in a WH is actually thougher than living in 0.0. Less people but much, MUCH more work and the requirements to have enough online to do that C5 are actually stricter than just joining random CTA members.

I mined in a Hulk literally throughout all of the last two Hulkageddons. Only once did I ever have an "issue"; a scout warped into the belt. I warped out, docked up, made a sandwich, watched an episode of Futurama, logged back in - problem solved.

I really don't get the problem with Hulkageddon. It gives the PvPers something to do, and it means that AFK mining is a little less hands-off. So what?

Nice try, but analogy is not logical reasoning at all. Countering an illogical argument "I shouldn't be forced to do X because I don't want to" does not call for logical counter-arguments, it's bullshit.

And next time you try to be a smart guy about logical reasoning, don't use a false induction as an example of analogy.

Nice try, but analogy is not logical reasoning at all. Countering an illogical argument "I shouldn't be forced to do X because I don't want to" does not call for logical counter-arguments, it's bullshit.

And next time you try to be a smart guy about logical reasoning, don't use a false induction as an example of analogy.

Player on one side. Player on the other side. Violence in the middle. Sounds like PvP to me.

He choose to be a miner, that's what eve is to him. If he has a quarter trillion isk he could do pretty much anything. The fact that People are destroying what eve means to him and others is something that ccp should take note of.

Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.

I dont give a fu.. how you players respond to this thread. In a few days all of you and EVE wont matter. In a few years EVE wont matter to the gaming community. It will be just another mmo that died a slow death.

I also have 250bil and wish to make a whine thread about losing ships to the value of 0.1% of my liquid ISK

So, you OP have 250B but can't afford risking a ship to gankers every now and then?

I haven't read through the 5 pages of "HTFU", but I feel like an important point must be made:

It's Hulkageddon, not Hulkmania.

I have over 250 billion ISK so ISK is not the problem. Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.

I have to agree with the op.

He choose to be a miner, that's what eve is to him. If he has a quarter trillion isk he could do pretty much anything. The fact that People are destroying what eve means to him and others is something that ccp should take note of.

Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.

I am sad to say that the days of a relaxing mining profession are gone.

If you were really smart and really wanted to enjoy mining in this game- you would join a good null sec corp/alliance and harvest the bountiful fruits of Crokite.

Why mine Crokite when Scordite is worth 10% more?

How many people have ragequit, only to be dismayed months and YEARS later to find that EVE didn't die but grew stronger?Since you can't ragequit from ragequiting, what do the poor souls do know to salve their shattered ego, not that it's been proven to them that they are only 1 person and most everyone else thinks they were just foolish?

Poor chaps.....

Posted - 2003.07.04 12:20:00

---

well the posts are funny and all, but there is about 90% of the posts of people that are not happy and very upset. ccp made a good game it is just all the changes in the game. i like the game but i am starting to hate patch day. the manual is useless. i really like this game but if ccp keeps going down the path it has picked it will have a short life. if people who pay to keep this game running keep getting messed with thay will do the only thing thay can and quit. enough people quit and thay wont be able to keep there servers up. and i dont want that to happen. but look at earth and beyond. thay sent me a e-mail giving me free time to play as a last ditch effort to keep them alive. plx ccp stay alive

EVE coming up on ten years and still going strong, even with Hulkamainia and Goons.

/whoosh

This why forums are poor places to debate with style; all the cadence and tonality is removed.

---
Read here.
---

AK

Eh ? If you try to mimic any understanding of logics please do so with at least reading up some before you do. That stuff didnt even make sense you just said.

You mean like this?

(...)Stop mining in high sec, you carebear mining retards(...)

Edit, i'm bad at reading lol, this was just an example.

I was like WTF, i didn't even play in 2003 :) .

But yea, EVE has been dying that long.

HAHA, yeah I wasn't quoting you, just posting an example. You were ready to go at it weren't you?

Player on one side. Player on the other side. Violence in the middle. Sounds like PvP to me.

If I had 250 billion isk, I would start mining and invite folk to gank my ship just so I could enjoy the pretty explosions.

what do you need 250 billion isk for?

seriously, what are you going to do with it?
you can't take it with you, you can't sell it

all you can do is spend it, there is no prize for most isk, and you wouldn't be able to beat the top dog anyhow

He could spend it all on PLEX, load it all in to a rookie ship then fly around highsec until he gets ganked to create the most spectacular killmail ever. Or self-destruct it to remove them all from the game

He could spend it all on PLEX, load it all in to a rookie ship then fly around highsec until he gets ganked to create the most spectacular killmail ever. Or self-destruct it to remove them all from the game

Security ratings below -1.0 should be kill on sight by anybody in hi-sec. That way you can actively defend against most suicide gankers by killing them first.

1. A large number of gankers are -5 by now. Nobody shoots them first.
2. You can shoot them once they go GCC. A nado will kill Cats much faster than the cats will kill the tanked Hulk
3. You can suicide gank them.
4. Lowsec/Null allows you to do exactly what you're asking.

He chose to be a pirate, that's what eve is to him. If he has a quarter trillion isk he could do pretty much anything. The fact that people are destroying what eve means to him and others is something that ccp should take note of.

Yes it's a sandbox, but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to gank were ever and how ever they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.


See what I did there?

Point being, ANY changes to the game is inevitably going to ruin someone else's play style, CCP is walking a fine line.

Sandbox. "Should' is not important. If someone is making it unsafe, you either find somewhere else to do it, or find a way to deal with the threat.



I wasn't really aiming most of that at you specifically, sorry.

A police force like Concord does actually make sense. I'm not so thrilled with them being invincible, but I spend literally no time in high sec, so I don't really care either way.

As far as my argument, it simply boils down to "There is no "should" in Eve". Doesn't matter if highsec should be safe, it isn't. It isn't because a group of corps, using in game resources, have banded together with the intent of making it unsafe, and they are fully within their rights to do so. It is now on the people who take offense to this to muster their own forces and come make us stop.

I'll advertise it again, VFK-IV. Deklein. That's where we are. Most of the game hates us, so anyone should be able to form a massive alliance to come and take us out. Don't blame the WarDec mechanics, in null, you don't need to wardec anyone, just fly out here and start shooting. Your force should be far bigger than ours. It would be dead simple to drive us out of eve forever.

So come do it. Stop whining and take your game back.

Are -5 gankers able to be killed on sight by anybody in hisec, before they get GCC? I actually don't know the answer.

If not, isn't it ironic that you can defend yourself better in low/null than high?

what do you need 250 billion isk for?

seriously, what are you going to do with it?
you can't take it with you, you can't sell it

all you can do is spend it, there is no prize for most isk, and you wouldn't be able to beat the top dog anyhow

Not defending the OP at all, nor the donkeys who cry on the forums but you assume too much about everybody's ability to forfeit their RL responsibilities for a game:

Tough ****. That's Real Life. As MMO players gets older so their obligations increase and their time decreases.

Not going to happen. People happen to have a life. "Making" a 0.0 alliance is easy, keeping it running is not. It's horrendously time consuming.

You wrongly assume people care enough to bother. You need a motivated core of dedicated players with a lot of game knowledge to setup an alliance that would EVER have any hope to run against a Technetium fuelled endless empire.

then why do you solely target miners, you can make more running lvl 4s or doing incursions. You are saying play the game but you target the minority in high sec.

Why dont you reign hell on all the "SafeHighSecPubbies" miners mission Runners, incursions etc. But you didnt you chose the soft option because they dont play the way you want and pat yourself on the back.

It's like watching a mentally ill child pulling legs off a fly.

Have you ever considered a lot of the playerbase don't give a crap about emergent game play and just want to have a game they can enjoy?

When I joined the game I never saw a word about EvE as a hard game, only that Null sec was dangerous lawless space.

This is not really a hi vs low sec problem, it's just possible to "exploit" the design of mining barges. Problem is that you can destroy a expensive ship, risk free with ships you get more or less for free. Mining is not exactly a high profit profession in hi-sec, so why should should it be so risky that the only safe why to do it is in low/null sec with corp support?

THANK YOU! That's been bothering me.

LOL! then folks question why these Goon @$$ clowns are ranked #1 R-Tards!

Yeah, they have that game. It's called WoW.

Anyone have that MMO learning curve graph?

Security ratings below -1.0 should be kill on sight by anybody in hi-sec. That way you can actively defend against most suicide gankers by killing them first.

Maybe you should go play it as you are obviously such a big fan, so big a fan you advertise the game on another MMO.

Oh I'm sorry I missed the part on that graph that says EvE is a hard game(in relation to environment, not learning curve), so as you don't seem to be able to understand the meaning of sentences refer to your own advice. Go play another MMO, I believe you endorsed one

Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.

You should thank us for saving you from the liberal print media.

I too, have a life. I spend more time on the forums than I do in the game, but I can still be in a 0.0 alliance. It really isn't taking that much out of me.

They care enough to rage and whine daily on the forums for ccp to ban or nerf us. Sorry that we know how to play Eve and you guys don't, but that isn't a reason to punish us.

What are you even talking about? I'm not on here complaining about how hard eve is. I've been pretty vocal against carebears, what in my posts leads to you believe I'd want to go play a carebear game? The post I quoted said that some players don't care about emergent gameplay, so I suggested they should probably play a game that doesn't emphasize it. I believe it was a reasonable suggestion. I do enjoy emergent gameplay, so I enjoy eve. I would get little satisfaction from WoW for the same reason.

No no, none of this adds up at all.

So you are bitching about people who actually want to play the game, while you admit you spend less time playing the game than being a forum troll. Yeah really sounds like you need to go else where, I believe you highly recommend another game. So go play it Troll.

They care enough to rage and whine daily on the forums for ccp to ban or nerf us. Sorry that we know how to play Eve and you guys don't, but that isn't a reason to punish us.

Well, I did recommend it, but to people not interested in emergent gameplay. I haven't played it, but it looks pretty boring. I don't like being confined to a specific style of play. Eve is a lot more flexible. I usually just play the markets in Eve, which admittedly doesn't take nearly as much time as doing other things, but that is how I choose to play it. I'm pretty busy with real life stuff, but I still enjoy the distraction Eve provides, even if only for an hour or two a day. Sorry you don't approve. Even if the gameplay of that other MMO did appeal to me, I wouldn't have the time.

I'm not bitching about anything. I'm responding to people saying that not every eve player is interested in the emergent gameplay emphasized in Eve. Unfortunately for them, that's what Eve is. I think it is perfectly fine to recommend them another game more suitable to their playstyle, and it does not obligate me to go play it as well. It is not my style. You're the one posting vitriolic rants, I'm merely offering suggestions to people who don't seem to enjoy Eve very much.



People have been saying this the entirety of the time Goonswarm has been in Eve.

If you pay attention, and youGÇÖve got your wits about you, you can avoid people coming in and ganking, a survival of the fittest kind of thing, and people are now able to actually make a much better living from mining because of things like Hulkageddon and Burn Jita, because minerals are more expensive

Yeah but before Goonswarm have had challenges like BoB ect... now you are having to make your own. I'm not saying it will be quick, the signs are there but it will take years for it to happen, unless something changes.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Being in GS myself, I can tell you that people are having just as much fun as ever, especially since the war in delve started. Goons have been here since almost the beginning, and I am inclined to believe that we will be here until the very end.

What are the signs you mentioned? People have been doomsaying both Eve and GoonSwarm since 2003, but both are going on as strong, if not stronger, than ever. Your point seems to be of the "I predict you will die sometime in the next 100 years" variety. Yes, goonswarm will one day end, but to predict it out years in advance isn't very impressive.

Any wars will help Goonswarm not to stagnate, Personally I would say the loss of Goonswarm would be a bad thing except history has shown us that EvE hates a vacuum. I wasn't saying in the next 100 years lol, I was saying the cracks are showing and it's all down hill from here.

I also said if things do not change, Goonswarm needs wars and people to fight. If you stop you will surely die. Much like the Roman empire.