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Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
67
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
Alliances fortressing up is a real concert. Stabilizer is not the solution as it would destroy WH mechanics completely. There must be another way.
Maybe like a special pos bashing module and subsystem for t3? |

Godfrey Silvarna
Stargates and Smuggler Barons
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:47:00 -
[62] - Quote
Archdaimon wrote:Maybe like a special pos bashing module and subsystem for t3? Something like this would spice up low class wormholes nicely as well. Especially c4's that are far enough from k-space to discourage invaders from ferrying large BC/BS fleets in but also immune to capital ships, so in c4's horribly fluffy carebears can keep their failfit poses up infinitely, since no one ever bothers to attack them there. In c5's we have cleaning crews removing failbears with dreadnoughts and c1-c3 have k-space logistics for invading smaller ships.
The idea has some merit. Let us investigate it further. |

Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
143
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
No. It's easy enough to invade lower class wormholes. It's also 20x easier to get a way in via k-space. I would call that a fair trade off for not having caps. Alliance Diplomat, Recruiter |

Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:51:00 -
[64] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:Archdaimon wrote:Maybe like a special pos bashing module and subsystem for t3? Something like this would spice up low class wormholes nicely as well. Especially c4's that are far enough from k-space to discourage invaders from ferrying large BC/BS fleets in but also immune to capital ships, so in c4's horribly fluffy carebears can keep their failfit poses up infinitely, since no one ever bothers to attack them there. In c5's we have cleaning crews removing failbears with dreadnoughts and c1-c3 have k-space logistics for invading smaller ships. The idea has some merit. Let us investigate it further.
Making pos bashes easier thru a module is a doble blade sword. It could make it so easy than the simple fact of putting a pos may be a waste of time and effort, only viable to big alliances (who would be the new goons of wspace?). Now if you say that this mod prevents pos and pos mod from sd you may be after something. There are a lot of options. |

Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
99
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
there are pos bassing modules, called dreadnaughts. pos's arent the problem in the fortress systems. its just the massive amount of caps and other ships the inhabitant has, and you have to counter. the only way to make this easier would be to actually give a way to move more mass or a lot of mass more often to a single system, an idea i dont like.
@archdaimon: of all alliances you should know that with time and patience any amount of force can be seeded. how many caps did you lot have when invading power of two? 20 ish? and another 140 pilots?
i still think its simply the lack of any incentive to undertake something that massive that makes the fortress systems not worth considering invading |

Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:35:00 -
[66] - Quote
I'm not saying the module is a good idea. Just a random suggestion.
Imo, the gameplay involved would be one that it took close to, if not the same effort to be able to throw someone out, as they put in defending their system.
At the same time this feature should not make it easier for the bigger alliances to blob smaller ones.
Ie. We want to keep mass limits, but we want to be able to bring enough people to a fight to deal with what people have got in a system.
I am fully aware that none of the bigger alliances relies on their pos for defense.
Wh generation module? requires X,Y,Z amount of resoruces to spawn x wh. Would make rolling easier and you could roll several holes at the same time :D |

Komen
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
If a pilot initiates a self-destruct while other pilots are already attacking the ship, that should generate a kill-mail for the attackers. It's a clear case of 'only self-destructing to deny the attackers their kill record and loot'. I am fine with the loot denial, but the kill-record should be preserved, as the pilot would not have SDed UNLESS he were under attack. Pretty much just seems to be carebears and 'I'm bad at PvP so I'll just passive-aggressive deny the killers their trophy' that don't want. |

Cryostassiss
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
I have no problem with self destructing while inside POS, even if they are **** caged and about to die. I mean for a point in time that pilot in the POS WAS safe from harm for a period of time.
The problem I have is when cap pilots are out of their POS, clearly in harms way, for instance doing a sleeper site, and they SD as soon as a decent sized gang lands on them.
They took the risk/reward gamble of WH space and they lost it, and now they have the option to take the wimp's way out when the aggressing pilots have usually taken lost of time to set up the appropriate fleet and laid in wait for the appropriate time. They take the cowards way out, and now there will be no record of them ever being in that ship during said fight and only the pod will be proof.
|

Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Anchorable structure that stops or delays the sd timer on poses and capitals. It would give attackers the possibilitie of looting the things that they cannot destroy but it will be a little harder than a simple pos bash since they would have to defend that structure. |

Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 21:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Cryostassiss wrote: They took the risk/reward gamble of WH space and they lost it, and now they have the option to take the wimp's way out when the aggressing pilots have usually taken lost of time to set up the appropriate fleet and laid in wait for the appropriate time. They take the cowards way out, and now there will be no record of them ever being in that ship during said fight and only the pod will be proof.
Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process. Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic] |

Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
144
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 21:15:00 -
[71] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote: Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process. Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]
I still don't get why you are opposed to something reflecting accurately on a battle report. But if you really only want half the story to be shown, just say so. Alliance Diplomat, Recruiter |

Finalgear
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 21:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote: What function does this post serve?
You's Trollin' [read: pathetic]
|

Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 22:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
Finalgear wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote: What function does this post serve?
You's Trollin' [read: pathetic] Fight fire with fire. |

Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 22:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:Finalgear wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote: What function does this post serve?
You's Trollin' [read: pathetic] Fight fire with fire. You about to sing this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xppm6-ICXg |

Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 23:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
Would you like me to try? |

QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 03:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:Cryostassiss wrote: They took the risk/reward gamble of WH space and they lost it, and now they have the option to take the wimp's way out when the aggressing pilots have usually taken lost of time to set up the appropriate fleet and laid in wait for the appropriate time. They take the cowards way out, and now there will be no record of them ever being in that ship during said fight and only the pod will be proof.
Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process. Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]
I would like something explained to me here. See if I take a group of 7 people out and we engage a carrier with it being obvious we are going to kill it, how does this make us unworthy of the killmail. Whether it takes two minutes or twenty minutes, we still get the kill.
How does a low man slow kill equate to terrible piloting? Wouldnt the fact that a cap was in the position to be killed by only 7 subcaps mean that the cap pilot didn't deserve his/her cap? And that your piloting skills and attempts at saving face are delicious [read: pathetic] |

Minmatar Citizen 121234
Ashton Technologies Ignore This.
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 04:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
popping wormhole PoSes is too easy, they don't have the coordination or the ability to bring in reinforcements like null does. In null you can fall back to another system, in wormholes your just ******
if popping poses in wormholes was profitable in any way other then "i want this system"
then too many people would just run around ganking wormholes and then wormhole content would die
cry moar bitches but CCP wants people to have fun |

Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Exhale.
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 07:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote: Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process. Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]
I still don't get why you are opposed to something reflecting accurately on a battle report. But if you really only want half the story to be shown, just say so.
He is probably the recruiter of an corp that discripes themself as allround corp including PVP ofc and fears that no new recruites ( to leech tax from ) gonna join up when it get public knowledge that Moonlit Raid`s main corp SD`s as soon as they see other ships on D-Scan. |

Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
101
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen 121234 wrote:popping wormhole PoSes is too easy, they don't have the coordination or the ability to bring in reinforcements like null does. In null you can fall back to another system, in wormholes your just ******
if popping poses in wormholes was profitable in any way other then "i want this system"
then too many people would just run around ganking wormholes and then wormhole content would die
cry moar bitches but CCP wants people to have fun
no idea what youre talking about do you?
we dont have the coordination? im pretty sure that we actually have a much harder job then the 0sec bears, and we manage. if you see it as a problem in wh space, learn to live there instead of making the statement
in wh space you just find a new wh and start over again. we can make isk like no tomorrow. even loosing 100b is a matter of 2-3 weeks to remake
noone "wants" a system, only in low class. the high class are mostly empty anyway so noone would ever fight over it
and we would run around ganking wormholes? even if every ship survived, wed still make more money running the anomalies in the same amount of time. and noone likes pos bashing, or keeping 48h of wh control that mostly means being bored out of your skull. or the days or weeks it take to seed caps, and the days after to get them out
sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about
|

Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Komen wrote:(...) just passive-aggressive deny the killers their trophy' that don't want. Plain ans simple grieving; it is part of the game. There are so many forum post filled with tears of the grieved, this is just another one.
The usual pattern is: the more the forums are drowned in those tears, the more incentive for the griever to perform their grievous deed. I expect it to be nothing different this time around. |

Cryostassiss
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:30:00 -
[81] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen 121234 wrote:popping wormhole PoSes is too easy, they don't have the coordination or the ability to bring in reinforcements like null does. In null you can fall back to another system, in wormholes your just ******
if popping poses in wormholes was profitable in any way other then "i want this system"
then too many people would just run around ganking wormholes and then wormhole content would die
cry moar bitches but CCP wants people to have fun
I'm sorry, but I'm you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
How is popping POS'es easier in WH space? It isn't.
1. In wormholes you have to deal with mass, meaning you have to control how many ships can go in to allow mass to let them back out, which means you can't bring a huge f***ing blob to a POS and smash it in a matter of minutes.
It also means you can't bring a ton of BS's to quickly take down a POS.
2. In wormholes you can't light a cyno and bring in a huge dread fleet to either RF or kill a tower in a matter of minutes.
3. If you are bashing a POS in a WH, you have to idea how many people are in system, and hence you don't know if you're being watched or about to get jumped until they appear on D-Scan in which case you might already be bubbled.(Sure, this can be prevented if you have a scout on the wormhole, but what if a K162 appears in system and you don't know about it?) In null if you see a local spike you can GTFO without you even seeing their shiptypes.
4. If wormhole control is established then getting into the wormhole can be nearly impossible.
5. Wormhole effects can f*** up your POS bashing if you get targeting range decrease, etc (Then again WH effects can speed it up)
|

Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
I think his point was the average wormhole carebear corp doesn't have the coordination to put up a solid defence or maintain numbers inside so they can retake hole control - unlike in null where they can just batphone for reinforcements - if an attacking force is half organised even with fairly low numbers they can take control of the exits and evict your average casual wormhole corp who often just aren't prepared for dealing with a half organised attacking force. |

Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
I actually find the good thing about wh that smaller entities have a chance to be their own without clusterfucking in huge alliances. Whatever we do to counter fortressing in WH's it should never remove the opportunity of smaller entities to have their daily life in a wh. Yes they may be thrown out every now and then, but never to the extent that they just can't move to another WH or similar.
If we open for the option that a wh alliance (or any for that matter) can easily have control over several systems with instant support we reach the problem with zero (which is basically instant force projections making only large entities play a role).
IN other words, Wormholes are more fun that Zero because alliance can't force project without serious effort, it feels like an actual frontier (no local) and the NPC's have at least a wee brain.
Mass limit is primary here. Just is random "gates". What ever we do to counter fortressing, let us not remove the three things that make WH's WH's.
The thing about pos bashing is that in fortress systems it is not the pos bashing that is the issue. It ain't the poses that make it a fortress. |

Beachura
Helghan Empiral Armada Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 19:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Nut up or shut up. People who SD in combat are the lowest form of coward in EVE.
Thanks for your intelligent input, I'm sure those around you must note what a complete lol you are. |

Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Why the anger? |

dudz Navi
PunchLine. The Imperial Senate
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 03:20:00 -
[86] - Quote
My personal opinion on SDing is that it takes away most of the point in bashing a POS if they can sit there and SD all the ships so you get nothing. So IMO no SDing inside the POS shields. They must exit the shields to start the proses and remain outside until they go pop. also if you are shooting them and they cannot get away so they SD. You have used your mods to make their ship go pop you should be on the KM as a damage dealer/Weber etc.
the only reason to bash a POS in a WH is if you hate them or you want to take the WH for yourself (but you may as well just find an empty one)
In the world today if you commit suicide via an explosion you are a suicide bomber and they are considered hostile and the act is a hostile one. Last time i looked i was not allowed to commit a hostile act inside the shields of a POS.
the other way around this would be either a bounce bomb that you fire from a SB and it bumps the ships around (and then outside)
OR
Hacking the POS shields to eject the ships inside that would be awesome :D |

Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 08:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Dudz. I thought your name was Dude Nasi (but with a "Z")!!! |

Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
264
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 09:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:Mr Bigwinky wrote: Why should I lose out on having record of what happened just because you lost your ship a little quicker than if I had blown it up? Your ship is gone either way, why are we pretending like it didn't happen?
Because you did NOT kill it, it exploded at the expressed and delayed decision of the pilot. I can't think of how to write this out any easier for you... erm.
Your ship blew up because I shot at it, a battle happened, you lost. Regardless of what made your ship explode, it still exploded because I agressed it.
I am yet to hear a good reason there should be no record of this...
"You did not kill it" is not a good reason because it is wrong. I killed it, it is dead because of me, who cares if you got the final blow.
Rather than justify why I should have a killmail, I think it'd be better to hear the reasons you should be able to deny someone one, or why you would want to?
I'm betting almost everyone who thinks they deserve to deny a killmail does so out of 1 of 2 reasons (neither are valid)
1: Spite - your spite is not a valid game mechanic, you are the type of person that turns off a multiplayer right before the results and act like noone won because you turned it off...
2: Killboard - you don't want the loss, and wish to pretend like it didn't happen (even though it did)
That about right? Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |

Michael1995
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 12:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
Killing (& baking stuff) is what this game is all about, self destruction is for cowards IMO, If they failed to protect their vessels they deserve to die.
In this case some nomads logged in their caps and started running sites without scanning or scouting, major props to them for not self destructing (They certainly had the time). Where as if it were any of the normal russian farming groups they would've self destructed.
Note: During the nomad engagement they warped a Revelation in to spawn the 3rd capital escalation wave, it promptly bailed out. Most likely hoping that the 3rd wave would spell our doom, thankfully the sleepers paid most of their attention to the carrier enabling us to overcome the insane tank on the Archon. 
With the russians they had 3-4 extra piloted capitals on their tower at the time, but decided to not commit to the fight and win, but start self destructing without a thought on the matter. One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |

Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 14:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mr Bigwinky wrote:I can't think of how to write this out any easier for you... erm.
Your ship blew up because I shot at it, a battle happened, you lost. Regardless of what made your ship explode, it still exploded because I agressed it.
I am yet to hear a good reason there should be no record of this...
"You did not kill it" is not a good reason because it is wrong. I killed it, it is dead because of me, who cares if you got the final blow. But you didn't kill it, and back to the causation argument, you argue that it exploded because you aggressed it. So what? lets just suggest you're not coming close to breaking the tank, did you REALLY kill it? REALLY? You argue that because you fired upon it, maybe only the once, you are entitled to be considered a contribuatory factor in killing it. Should the person I buy the ship from be considered culpable, remember, I wouldn't have SD the ship if I hadn't bought it would I? Should squad leader be culpable for warping squad?
Mr Bigwinky wrote: Rather than justify why I should have a killmail, I think it'd be better to hear the reasons you should be able to deny someone one, or why you would want to?
Simply this: If you're not the immediate factor in a ships popping you didn't kill it.
Mr Bigwinky wrote:I'm betting almost everyone who thinks they deserve to deny a killmail does so out of 1 of 2 reasons (neither are valid)
1: Spite - your spite is not a valid game mechanic, you are the type of person that turns off a multiplayer right before the results and act like noone won because you turned it off...
2: Killboard - you don't want the loss, and wish to pretend like it didn't happen (even though it did)
That about right? 3. You didn't apply enough damage to kill it. 4. You were not the immediate factor in it's destruction 5. The pilot had the option to deny the ship and equipment, you were unable to prevent him from doing what he wanted to do, therefore you failed at YOUR end.
Michael1995 wrote:Killing (& baking stuff) is what this game is all about, self destruction is for cowards IMO, If they failed to protect their vessels they deserve to die. Is cowardice in a game even possible? The repercussion are zero in any and all situations. |
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